It happend to me everytime on the BKK-HEL leg that the C cabin is way more loaded then shown at check in.
i.e. this morning I checked in at BKK, online it showed only 8 occupied seats (we could choose from all 5 seat in row 5 - this was 6 hours before departure).
At check in time at the airport the counters where just empty so was the lounge. When we go into the plane it was a nearly full flight:confused:
I just booked that flight 10 days ago an I class was easy and cheap to get, on hour flight to BKK, a week ago, the situation was simular.
I realised this situation on a number of flights before, but is it really the way that all this folks getting free upgrades?
SPBanker
Jul 24, 12, 7:22 am
Well, they are hardly 'free' upgrades, people upgrade themselves with points or vouchers. For many other Asian destinations upgrade opportunities are not so plentiful, but perhaps BKK is not so popular among business travelers.
Looking at some random dates 7-14 days from now BKK-HEL on KSV, there seems to plenty of room up front (C and I), and many days also show availability in F booking class (=award flights).
Ed Size
Jul 24, 12, 7:31 am
Well, they are hardly 'free' upgrades, people upgrade themselves with points or vouchers. For many other Asian destinations upgrade opportunities are not so plentiful, but perhaps BKK is not so popular among business travelers.
Looking at some random dates 7-14 days from now BKK-HEL on KSV, there seems to plenty of room up front (C and I), and many days also show availability in F booking class (=award flights).
Where can I use vouchers/points at the airport? And where to use them if you have a connecting flight?
And about 32 upgrades with vouchers and points while Y is fully loaded? Hard to believe.
SPBanker
Jul 24, 12, 7:40 am
Where can I use vouchers/points at the airport? And where to use them if you have a connecting flight?
As you know, you can't use the vouchers/points at the airport desk directly, but you can use AY website for upgrading quite late in the game. I have had upgrades clear at the airport, i.e. some three hours before the flight.
You can upgrade the long-haul portion of your connecting flight, no problem.
SandC
Jul 24, 12, 7:55 am
My own anecdotal experience with the HEL-BKK route would suggest that economy is often oversold. My wife and I recently flew YYZ-JFK-HEL-BKK and then return BKK-HEL-YYZ on both the HEL-BKK and the BKK-HEL legs we were upgraded to Business/First class (once by the gate agent and the other when checking-in). I should point out that we have no status with AY or with One World for that matter.
intuition
Jul 24, 12, 8:03 am
Some of the asian destinations sells quite well in J but BKK is not one of these AFAIK. Some years there have even been sales targeting J class to BKK, but I have not seen that for a while. I think it is fare to assume that the load factor for C/D/I/J is quite low.
As I think most will attest to, free (operational) upgrades are extremely rare and far between. But points and voucher upgrades are probably very popular on BKK route. As it is more a leisure than business route, AY+ members are probably not just upgrading themselves but the whole entourage.
As the booking class for upgrades usually is limited to 2 seats (IIRC), these upgrades will clear very late in the game. AY may be very strict when it comes to op-ups, but for other upgrades, they are quite accommodating. I think that as long as they have empty seats and enough food in J, they will process all upgrades. After all, this generates revenue by decreasing the points debt.
I don't know this for a fact, but at least it would be consistent with your observations.
intuition
Jul 24, 12, 8:10 am
My own anecdotal experience with the HEL-BKK route would suggest that economy is often oversold. My wife and I recently flew YYZ-JFK-HEL-BKK and then return BKK-HEL-YYZ on both the HEL-BKK and the BKK-HEL legs we were upgraded to Business/First class (once by the gate agent and the other when checking-in). I should point out that we have no status with AY or with One World for that matter.
Aha, interesting. BKK may be the one route where op-ups do happen. The route is often scheduled with the 297-seater A333, indicating demand for Y is greater here than other destinations.
NoWindowSeat
Jul 24, 12, 8:33 am
AY treats BKK route pretty much like charter/leisure destination (what it very much is also) selling every available whY seat and then pushing pax (even w/o any status) forward...been like that for years.
intuition
Jul 24, 12, 11:07 am
AY treats BKK route pretty much like charter/leisure destination (what it very much is also) selling every available whY seat and then pushing pax (even w/o any status) forward...been like that for years.
BKK isn't exactly OW hub bonanza, so J would have to be supported by thai destinations only, more or less. With SIN coming back, even more J traffic is routed this way, at the expense of BKK.
WilcoRoger
Jul 24, 12, 2:47 pm
Some C cabin seats on the BKK route are also sold on package tours as "eco-extra" or similar for a relatively low fee - eco service, biz seats. I've read about this on this forum :)
ffay005
Jul 24, 12, 3:05 pm
Some C cabin seats on the BKK route are also sold on package tours as "eco-extra" or similar for a relatively low fee - eco service, biz seats. I've read about this on this forum :)
On BKK as well? I thought it was only on A330-operated leisure flights.
Kallio
Jul 24, 12, 3:19 pm
On BKK as well? I thought it was only on A330-operated leisure flights.
That's how I understood it as well. And the "comfort class" service is slightly better than in the back but nothing compared to scheduled J of course. On those aircrafts that have a business class mini-cabin behind the main biz cabin, they do occasionally put Y-passengers with strictly Y service. But that 297-seater doesn't have that mini-cabin and I don't think you can even book a guaranteed seat in it. You can increase your chances with status and high booking class but I know from the experience that they don't always follow the pecking order strictly when seating the lucky ones there.
Andaman
Jul 24, 12, 6:22 pm
Some C cabin seats on the BKK route are also sold on package tours as "eco-extra" or similar for a relatively low fee - eco service, biz seats. I've read about this on this forum :)
Comfort Class is available only on the wide body leisure routes, not on the scheduled routes like BKK.
WilcoRoger
Jul 25, 12, 2:37 am
Comfort Class is available only on the wide body leisure routes, not on the scheduled routes like BKK.
OK, I stand corrected.
I can't comment on the BKK-HEL route, but on SK the BKK-CPH route was chock full in C last November.
intuition
Jul 25, 12, 3:10 am
Scandinavians like Thailand so much and many go there every year, I am not surprised if econ+ and J sells quite well from CPH to leisure travelers.
(I think over 3 million people consider CPH as their local airport, HEL cannot quite match those numbers of local sun-seekers)
Norwegian is aiming for BKK to be one of their first longhaul routes, no doubt about why.
Anselmi
Jul 25, 12, 5:21 am
Non revs. On my recent BKK flight there were plenty of Finnair employees on J cabin.
WilcoRoger
Jul 25, 12, 5:45 am
Scandinavians like Thailand so much and many go there every year, I am not surprised if econ+ and J sells quite well from CPH to leisure travelers.
Actually hardly any of the C pax were Danish - most seemed to be transit pax to other EU destinations, á la AY business modell :)
NoWindowSeat
Jul 25, 12, 7:32 am
Non revs. On my recent BKK flight there were plenty of Finnair employees on J cabin.
Yes, I have also seen many times that cabin crew bring their relatives etc. from behind..could be easier on BKK route and/or more popular route for tourists in the first place..in any case one should always expect full J and poor to average service on BKK route, very rarely great.
Ed Size
Jul 25, 12, 7:51 am
Thanks for all your answers,
everything together makes the picture quite clear:
-few sold J seat
-bunch of up grades
-selling seats to tour operators as "Eco+"
-AY employees on holiday
-overbooking whY
this gives you a pretty good load in the business cabin.
Do anyone know which tour operators selling AY J as Eco+?
intuition
Jul 25, 12, 7:58 am
...
Do anyone know which tour operators selling AY J as Eco+?
For travellers who have chosen Suntours, Finnair’s direct leisure flights to Phuket, Krabi and Las Palmas operated with the new Airbus A330 wide-body aircrafts offer two choices in comfort, the high-quality Economy Class and the luxurious Comfort Class.
In the winter 2011/12 season, you’ll be able to fly Finnair Comfort Class to three new destinations – Langkawi, Colombo and Cancún. We’ll also lease an Airbus A330-200 aircraft from Hi Fly, a highly respected charter flight company based in Portugal.
http://www.finnair.com/INT/GB/information-services/before-the-flight/planning-booking-your-flight/travel-classes/comfort-class
Ed Size
Jul 25, 12, 8:11 am
BKK isn't exactly OW hub bonanza,
I realized that:( Since the BA lounge is not open in the morning no more, there are more or less no options apart from the very medicore Louis Tavern lounge:td:
Cathay may be, but no great experience their either.
Ed Size
Jul 25, 12, 8:30 am
But how do they operate the flights to Phuket and Krabi? Via BKK?
Andaman
Jul 25, 12, 11:09 am
But how do they operate the flights to Phuket and Krabi? Via BKK?
Phuket and Krabi get non stop AY charters in winter, mainly A333. Last winter they also had wet leased A332 from HiFly, also OUL in northern Finland had direct charters to Phuket.
AY sell the J-cabin as Comfort Class, the new fully flat J-seat especially is something unusual in charter business... I once had that on a 6h AY charter to Las Palmas.
Beside AY also Thomas Cook (332) and TUI Nordic (767) operate direct winter charters from HEL to Phuket.
mosburger
Jul 25, 12, 11:40 pm
Are you guaranteed the J cabin on those Phuket/Krabi bound flights if booking "comfort class"? Or can there be sudden equipment change and you end up in the 757 "punishment class" instead? ;)
OH-LGG
Jul 26, 12, 12:08 am
Are you guaranteed the J cabin on those Phuket/Krabi bound flights if booking "comfort class"? Or can there be sudden equipment change and you end up in the 757 "punishment class" instead? ;)
They can't change 330 ---> 757.
intuition
Jul 26, 12, 1:42 am
Are you guaranteed the J cabin on those Phuket/Krabi bound flights if booking "comfort class"? Or can there be sudden equipment change and you end up in the 757 "punishment class" instead? ;)
They plan to lease a HiFly A330-200, though. Don't know exactly which version, but HiFly do offer a 361-seater one class 332. If you get that one, it might be punishment enough. 9-abreast dis-comfort class...
OH-LGG
Jul 26, 12, 1:53 am
They plan to lease a HiFly A330-200, though. ...
That info was winter for 2011/2012. Next winter 12/13 there is no HiFly flying AY charters.
intuition
Jul 26, 12, 1:58 am
?
As of dec 2012 at least these two are supposed to be hifly:
Next winter season they fly A333 charters from HEL to:
Phuket, Krabi, Langkawi, Saigon, Cancun, Varadero, Puerto Plata.
J-seat to Varadero in Cuba sounds kind of tempting to me, though normally you need to buy a package trip. The "Comfort Class" costs 250/300e extra one way. Plus points/Platinum upgardes work here too.
OH-LGG
Jul 26, 12, 6:41 am
What is your source of info? I get the "op by Hifly" now even from finnair.com
Something wrong with AY timetable. If you take a look that 7 Jan, there is two flights to CUN 1983 and 1985 and that is not possible. I would say HiFly is BS. 1983 is HEL-ARN-CUN and that's true. Aurinkomatkat also flying with AY A330:
7.1.2013 08:50 AY1983 Helsinki-Cancun 08:50 14:10 13 t 20 min Finnairin lomalento.
Yksi välilasku Ruotsissa tai Norjassa, kaupunki vaihtelee. Muiden kuin Suomen kansalaisten tulee tarkistaa passi- ja
viisumimääräykset myös välilaskun osalta.
Lennä mukavasti Comfort-luokassa Cancuniin.
The "Comfort Class" costs 250/300e extra one way. Plus points/Platinum upgardes work here too.
How much points for upgrade Comfort ? Can't find any info?
intuition
Jul 26, 12, 6:47 am
Something wrong with AY timetable. If you take a look that 7 Jan, there is two flights to CUN 1983 and 1985 and that is not possible. I would say HiFly is BS. 1983 is HEL-ARN-CUN and that's true.
I saw that too, and had the exact same thought.
AY1985 may have been the original plan, and 1983 added later as a replacement (maybe due to lack of demand)
Andaman
Jul 26, 12, 7:05 am
How much points for upgrade Comfort ? Can't find any info?
Can't find the info either, I'm afraid the amount of points asked isn't much different from the scheduled service.
OH-LGG
Sep 5, 12, 9:43 am
How much points for upgrade Comfort ? Can't find any info?
55000 point/person one way.. Interesting, as that is the same amount as the most expensive Y->J upgrade on regular flight, and then you get "the full J experience". Not complaining, the more ways members can redeem points, the better.
Anyway, from this example 55k points = one Longhaul upgrade = 250-300€
LoungeEnthusiast
Sep 16, 12, 12:09 am
Flew AMS-HEL in J yesterday afternoon - they had EIGHT rows of J in that A319 (never seen so many!) and the load was actually suprisingly good, about 20 of the 32 J seats were occupied (mainly by Asian passengers). Maybe this tells that the demand for J seats in Asian traffic is finally on the increase...
WilcoRoger
Sep 16, 12, 9:41 am
Maybe this tells that the demand for J seats in Asian traffic is finally on the increase...
Just wait until the system-wide introduction of the low-cost C product (á la MAN-HEL) :td: