Miles & More (Lufthansa, Austrian, Swiss, and other partners) - Manager Magazin: "Always trouble with Lufthansa"

Looking forward to the next issue of the German "Manager Magazin"....

Head title "Always trouble with Lufthansa" :p

https://heft.manager-magazin.de/epaper/start/index.html

Looking forward to the next issue of the German "Manager Magazin"....

Head title "Always trouble with Lufthansa" :p

https://heft.manager-magazin.de/epaper/start/index.html

Wow.

Can't wait for that issue :)

Looking forward to the next issue of the German "Manager Magazin"....

Head title "Always trouble with Lufthansa" :p

https://heft.manager-magazin.de/epaper/start/index.html

Best to read it in LH lounge, provided by LH

Best to read it in LH lounge, provided by LH

I _somehow_ have the strong feeling this edition of the MM won't hit the lounges ;)

Anyone read it yet? Maybe could do a scan for us to read the article?

I _somehow_ have the strong feeling this edition of the MM won't hit the lounges ;)

Anyone read it yet? Maybe could do a scan for us to read the article?

I expect to have it in the mail by today... (it will only be published today, a couple of days ago the first teasers showed up online)

I expect to have it in the mail by today... (it will only be published today, a couple of days ago the first teasers showed up online)

Actually the article is rather short and most of the stuff is no surprise for most Flyertalkers. Mr. Franz doesn't come out very good in this article, neither does Mr. Mayrhuber. No word of Antinori.

Allthough the article doesn't come with any surprises, it is again another PR disaster for Lufthansa!

Franz is Mayerhubers successor, Antinori was succeeded by Spohr. The latter got his 15 minutes of fame this year in the Sueddeutsche article :)

The latest issue of the German "Manager Magazin" has a very well written article about the trouble at LH, especially alianating frequent flyers:

http://www.manager-magazin.de/magazin/

(The print issue can be found in any respectable FCT or FCL ! )

The highlight for me was the story about a consultant who was asked to research the internal management struggles. During his presentation to the 50 top managers at LH the presentation was stopped half way through in a commotion because they did not like what they heard (internal power struggles between Franz and Spohr, etc). The cosnultant was thus fired and a new consulting firm was hired ...:D

I read the article over the weekend. It's fairly interesting and combinded with the following Handelsblatt article it shows the overall situation:

http://www.handelsblatt.com/unternehmen/handel-dienstleister/harte-konkurrenz-die-lufthansa-im-zangengriff/6563124.html

However, it is scary that there seem to be so many internal struggles that lead to severe customer dissatisfaction. Of course, Meilenschwund is taking notice of all these things...

The latest issue of the German "Manager Magazin" has a very well written article about the trouble at LH, especially alianating frequent flyers:

http://www.manager-magazin.de/magazin/

(The print issue can be found in any respectable FCT or FCL ! )

The highlight for me was the story about a consultant who was asked to research the internal management struggles. During his presentation to the 50 top managers at LH the presentation was stopped half way through in a commotion because they did not like what they heard (internal power struggles between Franz and Spohr, etc). The cosnultant was thus fired and a new consulting firm was hired ...:D

That was my favorite part as well!

The most interesting point about this presentation is the fact that Franz is usually very open to hear inconvenient things and is encouraging people to put all facts on the table to make rationale decisions. The power struggle at the top is costing customers and money.

Everyone is discussing whether Mayrhuber should follow Weber. But the real question is: Who should take over after Franz?

Am I the only person who is remembered of the "Hundred Flowers Campaign" when I read about the consultant who was researching LH's internal problem and then got fired mid-way in his presentation?

First, LH looked for help to solve it's internal problems. Then, when too much issues were discovered by the consultant, they fired them, as they couldn't/didn't wanted to hear the truth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hundred_Flowers_Campaign

Am I the only person who is remembered of the "Hundred Flowers Campaign" when I read about the consultant who was researching LH's internal problem and then got fired mid-way in his presentation?

First, LH looked for help to solve it's internal problems. Then, when too much issues were discovered by the consultant, they fired them, as they couldn't/didn't wanted to hear the truth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hundred_Flowers_Campaign

The whole anecdote of the consultant certainly does seem to be a classic (and nearly literal) case of "shooting the messenger."

It is a difficult but important skill to listen honestly to criticism from customers. My observation is that LH decision makers are currently way too brittle to even the friendliest criticism. Yes, LH are in a financially difficult position position right now, and the solutions are not easy. That makes it even more important to listen to everyone, especially outsiders. I have heard it said that complaining customers are your best friends. They tell you what they really think, and they still care enough to be won over. If all you want is consultants that tell you what you want to hear, or you want only to hear solutions that you agree with, then you are in deep trouble.

One excerpt in particular caught my eye from the _Handelsblatt_ article:

"...Wer sich aber beschweren will, landet in Telefonschleifen. „Kundenmonolog“ nennen Kunden das Dialogangebot der Lufthansa. „Die Qualität der Antworten aus den Call-Centern hat unterstes Niveau erreicht“, sagt Vielflieger und Unternehmer Ralph Treitz aus Heidelberg. Die Lufthansa dagegen lässt einen Sprecher ausrichten: „Da wir die Produktqualität in den kommenden Monaten und Jahren deutlich steigern, haben wir die Befürchtung, Vielflieger zu verprellen, nicht..."

So, what should one believe when Lufthansa says, "...As we are significantly improving product quality in the upcoming months and years, we are not worried about annoying frequent flyers..."? Should we believe what LH says, or what LH actually does?

T

So, what should one believe when Lufthansa says, "...As we are significantly improving product quality in the upcoming months and years, we are not worried about annoying frequent flyers..."?


That is a very strange quote- just because you are updating product quality- how would that justify annoying frequent flyers? Weird.

I suppose LH are confident that (future and as yet not announced) enhancements to their product will somehow stop annoying their frequent flyers... :-) (at least the ones who remain)

The latest issue of the German "Manager Magazin" has a very well written article about the trouble at LH, especially alianating frequent flyers:

http://www.manager-magazin.de/magazin/

(The print issue can be found in any respectable FCT or FCL ! )

The highlight for me was the story about a consultant who was asked to research the internal management struggles. During his presentation to the 50 top managers at LH the presentation was stopped half way through in a commotion because they did not like what they heard (internal power struggles between Franz and Spohr, etc). The cosnultant was thus fired and a new consulting firm was hired ...:D

This is exactly the kind of Top-Management arrogance against fact based criticizm which requires strong and decisive action by the supervisory board.

I am not sure Lufthansa is of the opinion that they are annoying their frequent flyers (or at least not enough to make them go somewhere else).

If LH does not think they are causing annoyance with their frequent flyers, either LH is deluding itself, or TRAVELSIG and I (and my HON wife--who BTW is clearly not annoyed with LH, as she is on her way to HKG on CX metal as we speak) are exceptions that can be safely ignored by LH...

I am not sure Lufthansa is of the opinion that they are annoying their frequent flyers (or at least not enough to make them go somewhere else).

If LH does not think they are causing annoyance with their frequent flyers, either LH is deluding itself, or TRAVELSIG and I (and my HON wife--who BTW is clearly not annoyed with LH, as she is on her way to HKG on CX metal as we speak) are exceptions that can be safely ignored by LH...

Autism by the top management will certainly not contribute to improvements in approach to the customer, product and processes.

mmhh, now that the shortfalls and the truthneglecting arrogance of LH management become difficult to ignore, where are all the ardent defenders, b"itching on everybody in this forum complaining about the obvious previously, now ??

That is a very strange quote- just because you are updating product quality- how would that justify annoying frequent flyers? Weird.

Lufthansa still believes in corporate customers only. They are not interested targeting individual travellers. That's why they think they will get away with all the enhancements as the decision maker - in Lufthansa's view - is the company and not the individual. As long as products are 'up to date' - and I am taking they are making an effort this winter to roll out the new Biz to as many aircrafts as they can - they believe corporate contracts will stay with them.

I don't know why they were not waiting with all the cullings until after the winter roll-out but then I don't understand the autocratic management anyway...

Lufthansa still believes in corporate customers only. They are not interested targeting individual travellers. That's why they think they will get away with all the enhancements as the decision maker - in Lufthansa's view - is the company and not the individual. As long as products are 'up to date' - and I am taking they are making an effort this winter to roll out the new Biz to as many aircrafts as they can - they believe corporate contracts will stay with them.

I don't know why they were not waiting with all the cullings until after the winter roll-out but then I don't understand the autocratic management anyway...

Well said. Also this is completely contrary to "non stop you".

Anyway- perhaps their strategy will turn out as a "stroke of genius" however in my 20 years of working in Strategy I have never once seen a company do well with a Strategy of "annoy your highest revenue and margin customers until they go away". Perhaps this is the first time....

Well said. Also this is completely contrary to "non stop you".

Anyway- perhaps their strategy will turn out as a "stroke of genius" however in my 20 years of working in Strategy I have never once seen a company do well with a Strategy of "annoy your highest revenue and margin customers until they go away". Perhaps this is the first time....

Well said. ^

I am convinced - as also stated in another thread - that the campaing "nonstop you" is completely nonsense.

"There is no better way to fly" (the old campaign) is superior in meaning and opportunities to implement. Just thinking about an A321 "J" with a proper Business Class product in the "A" zone with 6 rows 2-2 allocated to silver/gold/black customers. And then the "convertible" zone with old converter seats and only a small part of Y with NEK. So your "feeder" to Frankfurt would be more spacious than the competitors feeders to LHR, PAR, MAD and so on.

The recent Lufthansa strategy with high fares, slashing privileges for all frequent fliers is really questionable. There was really no need to slash the fare guarantee/booking guarantee as well as the easy upselling against miles between C and F.

Even if a "HON family" of four could upsell their leisure tickets from discounted C to F it would have a significant impact on loyalty of the customer more than the loss of some "A" sales! @:-)

This "once a year" experience would be a kind of recompense for the father/husband always being away from home and his family/children. So this small gesture of upsell against miles would turn the holiday flight into value family time. This would also lead to a consistent product and not converting some B747-400 to 2-class config.


Think they haven´t thought about all the privilege slashing measures.

They have thought about them. But the way they have thought about them is as cost items or "foregone revenue". Which of course is not very clever.

To pick up one of the prior examples of traveling with family and to recall my falling out of live with Air France: they smelled a great opportunity to make a fast buck by charging money if you brought more than one guest into their (atrocious) lounges. So me, Platinum for life after all, with a wife and two under-age kids. They wanted to charge me 70 Euros. I can spare of course 70 Euros but I absolutely hate that stinginess and lack of customer orientation for loyal customers. Result: I dislike them, I fly elsewhere. They lose not only 70 EUR on paying lounge kids twice a year, they also lost around 100 segments that I fly per year in premium classes to their competitors. At least like that I don't bother them and the exclusive lounge guests any more, so they must be happy.

Thank you for your post, San Gottardo.

I think the airlines should collect incidents and unfriendly behavior of this type and open a "lessons learned centre". @:-)

Then they should begin to change some restrictive rules to be more customer friendly. Especially for all customers being loyal during every month and not flying only for one vacation per year.

My personal point of view is a type of calculation: Who is using the offers very often. Then he should treated more perfectly and welcomed as a returning customer [who by the way enable the company to pay the employees every month].

Well said. Also this is completely contrary to "non stop you".



It's a comfort to know that at least SOMEONE understands the slogan :D

It's a comfort to know that at least SOMEONE understands the slogan :D

I really liked "there is no better way to fly" but perhaps it was skirting too close to some German laws for comfort.

They have thought about them. But the way they have thought about them is as cost items or "foregone revenue". Which of course is not very clever.

To pick up one of the prior examples of traveling with family and to recall my falling out of live with Air France: they smelled a great opportunity to make a fast buck by charging money if you brought more than one guest into their (atrocious) lounges. So me, Platinum for life after all, with a wife and two under-age kids. They wanted to charge me 70 Euros. I can spare of course 70 Euros but I absolutely hate that stinginess and lack of customer orientation for loyal customers. Result: I dislike them, I fly elsewhere. They lose not only 70 EUR on paying lounge kids twice a year, they also lost around 100 segments that I fly per year in premium classes to their competitors. At least like that I don't bother them and the exclusive lounge guests any more, so they must be happy.

I guess that airlines such as LH/AF played with the (stupid) logic of not worrying to loose some passengers because they would gain a similar number from the wrong doing of other airlines. At the end everything would be compensated and on the way they would have saved some money.
This could be valid for a few years but the new comers from the ME the whole equation has changed.
In my case, since December I have not bought a single long haul ticket in LH C and I have no intention of doing if I can find other alternatives.

Even if a "HON family" of four could upsell their leisure tickets from discounted C to F it would have a significant impact on loyalty of the customer more than the loss of some "A" sales! @:-)

Franz doesn't understand "loyalty". Never has, as clearly demonstrated in his achievements with Deutsche Bahn, where he proclaimed that the customers must be "educated" into accepting slightly lower base fares and hardly any discounts for loyal (=Bahncard) customers.

HTB.

Any english version of that article?

Any english version of that article?

Sorry, No.

I do have to question the Handelsblatt authors credential's / understanding of the aviation scene. I read the sentence about 5 times, but the claim that the fleet was upgraded through the use of the Concorde raises serious questions baackground knowledge.

"Das Streckennetz wuchs, der Service für die Kunden, vor allem die Flotte wurde aufgerüstet – etwa mit den prestigeträchtigen, aber teuren Hochtempo-Flugzeugen vom Typ „Concorde“. "

LH had Concordes on order, but opted out.

The current issue is not available at the FCT! ;)

The current issue is not available at the FCT! ;)

Too many FTers maximized their experience and took the copy to post here about the article.

If LH was a state such censorship would be an outrage. Hello China!

Rambuster, you should ask where the copies are. Giving LH the benefit of the doubt, perhaps the stock hasn't turned up.

If LH was a state such censorship would be an outrage. Hello China!

Rambuster, you should ask where the copies are. Giving LH the benefit of the doubt, perhaps the stock hasn't turned up.

Just ask for it nicely in the lounge (FRA & MUC) and the drageons will hand it out with a smile and the comment: We do not volunteerly give them out :D

Just ask for it nicely in the lounge (FRA & MUC) and the drageons will hand it out

Thats standard procedure for most magazines, only the FCT/L has the entire selection on display. In SEN lounge the entire stock would be gone in minutes.

I really liked "there is no better way to fly" but perhaps it was skirting too close to some German laws for comfort.

It was one I liked, one that reflected a certain confidence and a certain reality.

Now there's a commodity feel to travel in the only two cabin I routinely use (i.e. not F!): manipulate the fare and the cabin fills from a near infinite pool of passengers. Perhaps that's a sensible approach, rather than spending money to encourage frequent travellers to fill your seats at slightly better yields. Time will tell.

I'm still puzzled by the ad with the pretty-boy sleeping with his head on a concrete ledge. Clearly I'm not the target audience!

I'm still puzzled by the ad with the pretty-boy sleeping with his head on a concrete ledge. Clearly I'm not the target audience!

It's perfectly simply my dear friend, the concrete ledge is to simulate the hard NEK seats. LH are very careful to not get a b*ll*cking from the advertising regulators! :D

Just ask for it nicely in the lounge (FRA & MUC) and the drageons will hand it out with a smile and the comment: We do not volunteerly give them out :D

Taking into account the LH staff`s opinion about Mr. Franz they might rather give you two without even being asked for .

Taking into account the LH staff`s opinion about Mr. Franz they might rather give you two without even being asked for .

I suppose the magazine is gone, because they are given away for free to the employees :)

Franz is writing a guest article in the Handelsblatt today... couldn't find it on hdb online yet: http://www.handelsblatt.com/meinung/gastbeitraege/

It seems LH is looking for contact to the media and it backfiring about 1 out of 3 times :p

Just grabbed a copy if the MM at the FCL and read it on my flight to DTW - and on board was reminded again how poor LH has become:
- Power in my seat not working. Not much help aside from the comment that there is an empty seat and I could move my stuff over there. No help with transferring full glasses etc.
- No special recognition as a HON and not given priority choice for main course.
- LH C class food has again reached a new low. The Züri-geschnezeltes reminded me of the canned stuff I once had to eat in the army.

Wondering if it makes sense to choose LH over LX just to avoid connecting in the US...especially with the very positive improvement in service on the new UA.

Wondering if it makes sense to choose LH over LX just to avoid connecting in the US...especially with the very positive improvement in service on the new UA.[/QUOTE]

I just flew UA F yesterday ZHR to EWR - Hard product is good - seat very comfortable. Apart from an overstuffed amenity kit that shames LH F one the soft product is a disgrace. Meals are almost identical to C ( second snack - a heated chicken wrap most usually found in carton in Y - is served on a tray to C and F clients alike). The champagne was not the one listed ( which were already ok but on the low end scale - Feiullatte 2006) but a non vintage brand ( vs Dom 2003 on previous Thai flight). 'Snacks" in the galley were potato chips, oranges/apples and prepackaged chocolate bars ( even AC does much better in C).
In a nutshell new UA yes for seat no for the rest.

Meals are almost identical to C ( second snack - a heated chicken wrap most usually found in carton in Y - is served on a tray to C and F clients alike).

(Slightly OT):I believe someone said on the UA forum, that catering in C and F is identical, apart from 1 dish that is available only in F. Suggestion was made to ask the F/A which dish is F-class only and choose the one. I am not sure if this is the truth, but I would not be surprised if it would really be the truth:eek:

(Slightly OT):I believe someone said on the UA forum, that catering in C and F is identical, apart from 1 dish that is available only in F. Suggestion was made to ask the F/A which dish is F-class only and choose the one. I am not sure if this is the truth, but I would not be surprised if it would really be the truth:eek:

TPJ:
I am not really fluent on the menu changes but from what I can see there has been a downgrade in the C meal product compared to ex Continental - the hot appetizer and soup have disapperared - while they have appeared on the F menu. No clue about the sundae - it was there in first (only one dessert choice in first??). Interestingly - in this tough times, out of six seats in first one is kept for for crew rest - lost revenue anyone? Maybe not a big issue as the feeling is that ops-up and mileage buy-ins seem to populate the cabin ( together with non-revs such as the FA in 1A). Bet there is not a strong interest in nurturing/maintaining a competitive F class when few would actually purchase it. LH is a much more polished affair in F

Good points - I actually meant UA domestic where I experience very cheerful FAs, attentative service and nice little improvements like full bar pre-boarding etc.