Hilton HHonors - HHonors T&Cs changed effective July 19 2012: No Diamond Force on Reward Stays

Buried in the T&C update of 19 July (http://hhonors1.hilton.com/en_US/hh/terms.do) is this sentence:

Guaranteed reservations availability, subject to the restrictions stated herein, at hotels within the Hilton Worldwide portfolio when paid reservations are made before midnight hotel local time, two or more days (48 hours) prior to intended arrival. RESTRICTIONS: This guarantee does not apply to reservations paid for in part or in full by HHonors points, free night certificates issued by Hilton Worldwide.

While this had already been effectively removed by the premium room reward nonsense at a number of highly desirable properties, it seems to me to be yet another way our Hilton points are being devalued.

There are new HHonors T&Cs at http://hhonors1.hilton.com/en_US/hh/terms.do marked effective last Thursday. I really should start keeping old versions so I can compare. The immediate things I see are:

there's a new company Hilton HHonors Worldwide LLC which now operates the scheme
upgrades now exclude "executive suites", "villas", and "vista accommodation types"
Diamond Force is officially excluded on reward stays (points and certs) (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/hilton-hhonors/1369214-latest-enhancement-hhonors-program-no-diamond-force-reward-stays.html)
Upgrades are officially excluded at every brand except DT/Hilton/Conrad/W=A (and the T&Cs contradict other parts of the site by saying Golds don't get upgraded at W=A)
Diamond Force is excluded at Maldives, Seychelles, Ho'olei, and a few others (don't know if that was there all along)
Gold and Diamond upgrades are restricted to one room per booking even if it is a multi-room booking
Gold members get an upgrade if available and then choose 1000 points or breakfast (in-room movie rather than breakfast at W=A); previously they had to choose upgrade + breakfast or 1000 points.

Not seen any announcement yet - are there any positives?

Technically the last one is an improvement, I suppose.

For Golds it is.

Looks like more dilution for Diamonds though.

Upgrades are officially excluded at every brand except DT/Hilton/Conrad/W=A (and the T&Cs contradict other parts of the site by saying Golds don't get upgraded at W=A)

It's still showing on the My Way options

Waldorf Astoria® Hotels & Resorts
As a Gold member, you receive the following benefit:
One category, space-available room upgrade*
(Excludes suites, Napua Tower at Grand Wailea and the Imperial Floor at Rome Cavalieri)
And choose ONE of the following:
1,000 Hilton HHonors® Bonus Points
One in-room movie included with your stay (where locally available).
* Note: If a room upgrade is not available, you will receive both of the remaining benefits.

It is disappointing, but not really surprising, given the way things are going. There really doesn't seem to be much benefit to being Diamond anymore over Gold.

There are new HHonors T&Cs (...)


Gold and Diamond upgrades are restricted to one room per booking even if it is a multi-room booking


Is this really a change, I think this has been this way in the last t&c as well, but was handled to our (i.e. the customers) advantage by the most hotels in the past (i.e. upgrading all rooms)?

Gold members get an upgrade if available and then choose 1000 points or breakfast (in-room movie rather than breakfast at W=A); previously they had to choose upgrade + breakfast or 1000 points.
[/LIST]

So, if I book a rate that includes breakfast, should I now select points? (I still want an Executive Lounge room.) Another way to put the question: am I at risk of being denied the full restaurant breakfast if I select points but I have booked a rate that includes breakfast?

So, if I book a rate that includes breakfast, should I now select points? (I still want an Executive Lounge room.) Another way to put the question: am I at risk of being denied the full restaurant breakfast if I select points but I have booked a rate that includes breakfast?

To the first question, it seems yes. To the second, I cannot imagine a hotel reasonably denying you a breakfast that you have paid for in your rate, irrespective of what HHonors choices you may have made.

Is this really a change, I think this has been this way in the last t&c as well, but was handled to our (i.e. the customers) advantage by the most hotels in the past (i.e. upgrading all rooms)?

I don't have the last T&C to hand, but I don't think it was quite this unambiguous.

The only useful benefit is guaranteed lounge access whether upgraded or not. Certainly I don't consider being able to force a room at £369 a night (or whatever the rack rate is) to be a benefit. And in any case, it's probably an extraordinary demand date.

Well, at least they make it official now.

To the first question, it seems yes. To the second, I cannot imagine a hotel reasonably denying you a breakfast that you have paid for in your rate, irrespective of what HHonors choices you may have made.

Thanks for the opinion. It seems that they have improved Gold while devaluing Diamond.^

Upgrades are officially excluded at every brand except DT/Hilton/Conrad/W=A (and the T&Cs contradict other parts of the site by saying Golds don't get upgraded at W=A)

It doesn't say gold members have upgrade at W=A, only DT/Hilton/Conrad.

It doesn't say gold members have upgrade at W=A, only DT/Hilton/Conrad.

True, and confusing. On the Membership Levels page, under Golds, it still lists W=A. But, yet the T&C page does not mention W=A. Will make for some interesting checkins. But, I wonder how closely hotels pay attention to every little change made on the website...

What is " W=A"?

Diamond Force is officially excluded on reward stays (points and certs) (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/hilton-hhonors/1369214-latest-enhancement-hhonors-program-no-diamond-force-reward-stays.html)


If this is now the case it will be the nail in the coffin for me. Problem is Marriott is no better these days.

could be I will start staying at Country Inn & Suites when they are where I need to be and SPG and hope it will cover me

What is " W=A"?

Waldorf Astoria Collection

Not sure if this is a change, but it seems more reasonable than a cash charge in case of a reward cancellation after the deadline:At Hilton HHonors Worldwide L.L.C.'s discretion, and without notice, in the event of a no-show or cancellation outside of the timeframe set by the hotel's individual cancellation policy, in lieu of the one night charge stated above, Member instead will forfeit the amount of points equal to one night of the Reward Stay (number of points at Hilton HHonors Worldwide L.L.C.'s discretion), and the remaining portion of the Reward Stay redeemed points will be credited automatically back to Member's account.

Otherwise, I don't see a big deal here. The advent of premium rewards was effectively the end of the Diamond force on rewards. This just makes it official. I do wish they would introduce some positive changes, instead of the gradual devaluation, especially at the top tier. If the number of Diamonds prevents being more generous with benefits at that tier, then they should make it tougher to qualify.

way to increase the value of HH pts

The advent of premium rewards was effectively the end of the Diamond force on rewards. This just makes it official. I do wish they would introduce some positive changes, instead of the gradual devaluation, especially at the top tier.

There have been some benefit improvements:

- free in-room internet for Plat and Gold, introduced 9/2010

- the full range of formerly 'pick one' MyWay choices at the full-service properties, introduced this year

- the expanded room upgrade benefit, also this year

Whether that covers the loss of Diamond Force on awards is very much specific to one's travel patterns and valuation of alternate benefits.

Sigh, now I lost my motivation to become HH Diamond.

The only useful benefit is guaranteed lounge access whether upgraded or not. Certainly I don't consider being able to force a room at £369 a night (or whatever the rack rate is) to be a benefit. And in any case, it's probably an extraordinary demand date.

+1

I always have found the pricing on forcing a room crazy. If there is that much demand they will price accordingly.

And as to benefit of Diamond over Gold, are you forgetting that you get 50% markup on points as Diamond, versus 25% on Gold? Or is that not considered a "benefit" of the program? (that is an honest question, not being sarcastic)

There have been some benefit improvements:

- the expanded room upgrade benefit, also this year

Whether this has been an improvement is highly debatable. I encountered several hotels that are less generous with upgrades now than they were before the language changed. Sure, there are properties that now give out suites, but as a Diamond I heard "you received a one-level upgrade" way too often this year.

Diamond Force is officially excluded on reward stays (points and certs) (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/hilton-hhonors/1369214-latest-enhancement-hhonors-program-no-diamond-force-reward-stays.html)
Huge. This is the ONE benefit to Diamond status that made it worth keeping. It's been one slap in the face after another since 2009. Why don't you just do what you really want and end the program?! After many years as a Diamond I need not even think about letting it go. :td:

Whether this has been an improvement is highly debatable. I encountered several hotels that are less generous with upgrades now than they were before the language changed. Sure, there are properties that now give out suites, but as a Diamond I heard "you received a one-level upgrade" way too often this year.

I second that, nothing has changed for me as Diamond with the introduction of suites - I received the same room category (Executive Level) as before and the hotel without such an executive floor only upgraded to the next room category if at all. On the other hand, I did not expect anything else.

But I am slightly disappointed by the way this is handled by HHonors. No announcementon the one hand and no improvement for Diamond. What is the difference between Diamond and Gold other than the 50% instead of 25% bonus points and an additional 1000 (or less) points? With taking away the Diamond Force for Award stay the last real different to HHonors Gold was taken away. More points are nice, but if I am not allowed to use them at specific dates (than I was before the changes) they could be also seen as less worth than before (which is my personal impression).

I know, I should not go in a discussion about Gold vs Diamond here ...

And as to benefit of Diamond over Gold, are you forgetting that you get 50% markup on points as Diamond, versus 25% on Gold? Or is that not considered a "benefit" of the program? (that is an honest question, not being sarcastic)

I don't consider it material.

And they decided to not honor any reservations which were under request at that point in time.

Thanks Hilton [td]

Thanks for the opinion. It seems that they have improved Gold while devaluing Diamond.^

Divided and conquered? :eek:

Nailing Golds won't be too far behind.

There have been some benefit improvements:
It's depressing to have them specifically exclude upgrades at HGI and HI & S. I will be staying at 1 HGI and 4 HI & S in the next week, and I imagine now that my chances of an upgrade just went to zilch.

David

Can someone help me clarify this?
1.•Gold members get an upgrade if available and then choose 1000 points or breakfast (in-room movie rather than breakfast at W=A); previously they had to choose upgrade + breakfast or 1000 points.

Does this mean we are guaranteed an upgrade to exec room (lounge access) if available if we booked either with cash,cash+points or full reward on the cheapest room?

Before this new change what was the arrangement?

Thanks,
K.

HH has officially jumped on the devaluation wagon, though been there since pt
Cats changed and we lost RT.

It's depressing to have them specifically exclude upgrades at HGI and HI & S. I will be staying at 1 HGI and 4 HI & S in the next week, and I imagine now that my chances of an upgrade just went to zilch.

David
Upgrades were never a stated benefit at HGI or HI, but some properties gave them anyhow. I don't expect that will change.
Can someone help me clarify this?
1.•Gold members get an upgrade if available and then choose 1000 points or breakfast (in-room movie rather than breakfast at W=A); previously they had to choose upgrade + breakfast or 1000 points.

Does this mean we are guaranteed an upgrade to exec room (lounge access) if available if we booked either with cash,cash+points or full reward on the cheapest room?

Before this new change what was the arrangement?

Thanks,
K.
An upgrade to an executive room has never been guaranteed for anyone, and lounge access is not guaranteed for Golds under this or the immediately preceding T&Cs.

Now, you choose either 1000 points or continental breakfast. You will then get a space-available upgrade (which may or may not be to an Executive room). If and only if you are upgraded to a room that would give executive lounge access if paid with cash, you will also get executive lounge access.

Huge. This is the ONE benefit to Diamond status that made it worth keeping. It's been one slap in the face after another since 2009. Why don't you just do what you really want and end the program?! After many years as a Diamond I need not even think about letting it go. :td:

It really an unfortunate development. I have used this couple of this already this year. The "Premium Room" scam is not the solution (yes there are few exceptions).

There are new HHonors T&Cs at http://hhonors1.hilton.com/en_US/hh/terms.do marked effective last Thursday. I really should start keeping old versions so I can compare. The immediate things I see are:

there's a new company Hilton HHonors Worldwide LLC which now operates the scheme
upgrades now exclude "executive suites", "villas", and "vista accommodation types"
Diamond Force is officially excluded on reward stays (points and certs) (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/hilton-hhonors/1369214-latest-enhancement-hhonors-program-no-diamond-force-reward-stays.html)
Upgrades are officially excluded at every brand except DT/Hilton/Conrad/W=A (and the T&Cs contradict other parts of the site by saying Golds don't get upgraded at W=A)
Diamond Force is excluded at Maldives, Seychelles, Ho'olei, and a few others (don't know if that was there all along)
Gold and Diamond upgrades are restricted to one room per booking even if it is a multi-room booking
Gold members get an upgrade if available and then choose 1000 points or breakfast (in-room movie rather than breakfast at W=A); previously they had to choose upgrade + breakfast or 1000 points.


Is there an improvement for Gold?
I may be wrong, so please to correct me if I am wrong.
I thought the above mentioned benefit for Gold came out since January, when they last updated the T&C?

This is ideed sad. I have had to use the force many times, and it was a positive for being a diamond. Many of us first nail the flights down ,if using miles. Some airlines (especially my Delta) make it difficult to use the miles.
Once I get my dates I start booking my stays. Now, it's very possible my hotel of choice will not be available.
One of the major reasons I spend around 200 nights a year with HH properties is to be sure I can use my points in Rome, Venice, Florence, Munich, etc. Now, it's a roll of the dice-and I hate snake eyes.
I guess it's time to shuffle my stays elsewhere to best protect myself. Not sure if Marriott ,or SPG are my best bets, but no force means that once again HH has thumbed its nose at diamonds.
By the way, I know all the hotel chains have weaknesses. But, the force simply meant I was sure I'd use my points as I desired. Now, it's leading to using them only when the hotel allows. Eventually, i expect there will be tiers with higher points for peak times.

And they decided to not honor any reservations which were under request at that point in time.

Thanks Hilton [td]

if you had a reward stay booked under the Diamond 48 then I am sure they
are still honoring those.

Did you have one that got cancelled? or are you talking about something else?

If you had one booked, you probably should just leave it in place and not try making any changes to it. That might mess up your reservation.

This is ideed sad. I have had to use the force many times, and it was a positive for being a diamond. Many of us first nail the flights down ,if using miles. Some airlines (especially my Delta) make it difficult to use the miles.
Once I get my dates I start booking my stays. Now, it's very possible my hotel of choice will not be available.
One of the major reasons I spend around 200 nights a year with HH properties is to be sure I can use my points in Rome, Venice, Florence, Munich, etc. Now, it's a roll of the dice-and I hate snake eyes.
I guess it's time to shuffle my stays elsewhere to best protect myself. Not sure if Marriott ,or SPG are my best bets, but no force means that once again HH has thumbed its nose at diamonds.
By the way, I know all the hotel chains have weaknesses. But, the force simply meant I was sure I'd use my points as I desired. Now, it's leading to using them only when the hotel allows. Eventually, i expect there will be tiers with higher points for peak times.



are there other chains that allow the top tier status the 48 hour with reward stays? If so, which chain?

While I agree it will be difficult, it just means we have to plan ahead a little better to allow the reward stays. For me, personally, I very rarely book last minute vacations. But, I do understand for those who need to use their points they will be receiving last minute to book the stays. I guess I just save my points in advance as well. (i don't like the looks of a depleted account :( )

Also, if the specific hotel you are considering doesn't have the dates and you need to use points, you can always consider the hotels nearby that might have reward availability (if it exist).
I guess a little planning will just be needed though.

if you had a reward stay booked under the Diamond 48 then I am sure they
are still honoring those.

Did you have one that got cancelled? or are you talking about something else?

If you had one booked, you probably should just leave it in place and not try making any changes to it. That might mess up your reservation.


I made a request on 18July and they were working on it. When I called yesterday to check on the status was denied due to new rule

It is disappointing, but not really surprising, given the way things are going. There really doesn't seem to be much benefit to being Diamond anymore over Gold.

No more sense, right. Take the credit card, be gold and that's it. What a shame, Hilton!

Everyone should post something on the Hilton HHonors facebook page about this. I did and got an email from a rep (they looked up my account) they told me they would forward my comments to the Management of HHonors. Power in numbers.

Here is what I posted
" Just one more slap in the face to HH Diamonds. The new T&C on July 19 cutting the Diamond force for reward nights and giving more perks to Gold's. The Diamond force was the one benefit to Diamond status that made it worth keeping. It's been one slap in the face after another since 2009. What is the difference between Diamond and Gold other than the 50% instead of 25% bonus points and an additional 1000 (or less) points? Sure points are nice, but your top competitors keep adding REAL benefits to their top tier, Hilton Keeps taking away theirs and given more to the mid tier?!?!? "

Everyone should post something on the Hilton HHonors facebook page about this. I did and got an email from a rep (they looked up my account) they told me they would forward my comments to the Management of HHonors. Power in numbers.

Here is what I posted
" Just one more slap in the face to HH Diamonds. The new T&C on July 19 cutting the Diamond force for reward nights and giving more perks to Gold's. The Diamond force was the one benefit to Diamond status that made it worth keeping. It's been one slap in the face after another since 2009. What is the difference between Diamond and Gold other than the 50% instead of 25% bonus points and an additional 1000 (or less) points? Sure points are nice, but your top competitors keep adding REAL benefits to their top tier, Hilton Keeps taking away theirs and given more to the mid tier?!?!? "


This is a brilliant idea. Do you mind sharing the link?

I made a request on 18July and they were working on it. When I called yesterday to check on the status was denied due to new rule

huh?:confused:
you've lost me. When booking a reward stay you either book it or you don't.

If there was no availability and your 48 hr diamond guarantee was not working why didn't you speak with a supervisor?

I have no clue what 'working on it means'.

When making your request on 7/18 why didn't you just book the reward stay?

seems like an odd situation.

huh?:confused:
you've lost me. When booking a reward stay you either book it or you don't.

If there was no availability and your 48 hr diamond guarantee was not working why didn't you speak with a supervisor?

I have no clue what 'working on it means'.

When making your request on 7/18 why didn't you just book the reward stay?

seems like an odd situation.

Not odd at all. When using Diamond Force, HHonors Diamond Desk has to talk to the hotel to make the booking. It is not instant. OP was screwed when the hotel uses the new policy to deny the request.

RANT...

This is totally absurd. Hilton should just suspend their programme entirely. There really is no point being elite since you get nothing of value at any tier. Free internet is a tired benefit that all of the major chains offer, and don't get me started on their bonus pesos. Given the steady devaluation of points over the last decade, Diamond should get a 200-300% bonus, Gold a 100-200% bonus, and Silver a 50-100% bonus. Either that, or they should consider revaluing their hyperinflated currency. Wishful thinking (I know!). I cannot think of a single reason for anyone to remain loyal to Hilton save for the fact that you get 100-500 airline miles w/ each stay. Big whoop!!!

Okay, now you may pile on. :)

Everyone is gold now....

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/credit-card-programs/1369193-new-citibank-hilton-reserve-two-free-nights.html

huh?:confused:
you've lost me. When booking a reward stay you either book it or you don't.

If there was no availability and your 48 hr diamond guarantee was not working why didn't you speak with a supervisor?

I have no clue what 'working on it means'.

When making your request on 7/18 why didn't you just book the reward stay?

seems like an odd situation.

Hmmm, that's not odd at all. Every time I did a Diamond Force on reward stay, they always told me that they will check with the hotel and get back to me in the next 48 hours. Usually I would get an email back within 12 hours saying that I got the room. One time I got an email within 10 minutes. But they always have to "work on it" offline for a bit. Those were the days. The last 2 times I called, they told me since there were premium rooms available, they won't even attempt to contact the hotels. I guess now I don't even have to try anymore! Less work for me! :p

RANT...

This is totally absurd. Hilton should just suspend their programme entirely. There really is no point being elite since you get nothing of value at any tier. Free internet is a tired benefit that all of the major chains offer, and don't get me started on their bonus pesos. Given the steady devaluation of points over the last decade, Diamond should get a 200-300% bonus, Gold a 100-200% bonus, and Silver a 50-100% bonus. Either that, or they should consider revaluing their hyperinflated currency. Wishful thinking (I know!). I cannot think of a single reason for anyone to remain loyal to Hilton save for the fact that you get 100-500 airline miles w/ each stay. Big whoop!!!

Okay, now you may pile on. :)


+1

This is a brilliant idea. Do you mind sharing the link?
http://www.facebook.com/HiltonHHonors

Everyone should post something on the Hilton HHonors facebook page about this. I did and got an email from a rep (they looked up my account) they told me they would forward my comments to the Management of HHonors. Power in numbers.

Here is what I posted
" Just one more slap in the face to HH Diamonds. The new T&C on July 19 cutting the Diamond force for reward nights and giving more perks to Gold's. The Diamond force was the one benefit to Diamond status that made it worth keeping. It's been one slap in the face after another since 2009. What is the difference between Diamond and Gold other than the 50% instead of 25% bonus points and an additional 1000 (or less) points? Sure points are nice, but your top competitors keep adding REAL benefits to their top tier, Hilton Keeps taking away theirs and given more to the mid tier?!?!? "

Seems to me that you should be happy / not happy with your own status and benefits rather than not being happy that Hilton extends very good benefits at its Gold level. I understand that there is always some frustration if there is a change in T&C, but the suggestion is to keep the focus there and not worry about others. You could have made all the points you wanted without referring to the Gold benefits.

Makes perfect sense that they do not allow Diamond Force for award stays. When you get a Diamond Force you normally end up paying rack rates, but for an award, the hotel gets maybe $20 bucks.

Makes perfect sense that they do not allow Diamond Force for award stays. When you get a Diamond Force you normally end up paying rack rates, but for an award, the hotel gets maybe $20 bucks.

It's not as simple as that at all. The amounts paid vary a lot. I don't think the Cavalieri gets $20 a night!

The point is, there's very little left to make Diamond a really special tier. I was looking at Hyatt, my first time looking at another brand and they offer four guaranteed suite upgrades for stays up to 7 days each. That is very good.

The whole upgrade fiasco, suite/no suite or garden view just adds salt to the wound.

They give Gold away to every Tom, Dick & Harry and they bundle Diamond with some credit card. I pity the poor Gold who actually earns the tier, what a fool!

Indeed, I am beginning to feel like more a fool to keep renewing Diamond.

Makes perfect sense that they do not allow Diamond Force for award stays. When you get a Diamond Force you normally end up paying rack rates, but for an award, the hotel gets maybe $20 bucks.


I'm sure they get some sort of prevailing per-night rate figuring all rooms in the property (whether occupied or not, so vacant rooms would bring down the figure) over a period of time - the same historical month of the year, the entire quarter, entire year, etc...

The idea that a high end property would get $20 a night on award stays is absurd.

They give Gold away to every Tom, Dick & Harry and they bundle Diamond with some credit card. I pity the poor Gold who actually earns the tier, what a fool!


Like us Canadians who don't have the credit card option available? ;)

I was looking at Hyatt, my first time looking at another brand and they offer four guaranteed suite upgrades for stays up to 7 days each. That is very good.

At Hyatt, the guaranteed suite upgrade requires that a Junior Suite be available at the time of booking

TW

This program has turned into a sad shell of its former self...

What is next on the chopping block? AXON/GLON? Free breakfasts? Executive lounges? They have cut so much in such a short period of time that none of these would seem to be off the table.

I made a request on 18July and they were working on it. When I called yesterday to check on the status was denied due to new rule

Everyone should post something on the Hilton HHonors facebook page about this. I did and got an email from a rep (they looked up my account) they told me they would forward my comments to the Management of HHonors. Power in numbers.

Here is what I posted
" Just one more slap in the face to HH Diamonds. The new T&C on July 19 cutting the Diamond force for reward nights and giving more perks to Gold's. The Diamond force was the one benefit to Diamond status that made it worth keeping. It's been one slap in the face after another since 2009. What is the difference between Diamond and Gold other than the 50% instead of 25% bonus points and an additional 1000 (or less) points? Sure points are nice, but your top competitors keep adding REAL benefits to their top tier, Hilton Keeps taking away theirs and given more to the mid tier?!?!? "

+1

Seems to me that you should be happy / not happy with your own status and benefits rather than not being happy that Hilton extends very good benefits at its Gold level. I understand that there is always some frustration if there is a change in T&C, but the suggestion is to keep the focus there and not worry about others. You could have made all the points you wanted without referring to the Gold benefits.

I agree with this. I'd rather complain about the loss of benefits to Diamonds, than about Gold members getting "too much".

This program has turned into a sad shell of its former self...

What is next on the chopping block? AXON/GLON? Free breakfasts? Executive lounges? They have cut so much in such a short period of time that none of these would seem to be off the table.

Whatever saves money for blackstone . Long term loyalty is not their goal - only immediate profits.
The only language they understand is $$$. Don't encourage them by spending your money at Hilton.

They treat diamonds as captive audience and give gold away like candy to create a perception of benefits. But don't count on anything of value to last.

I agree with this. I'd rather complain about the loss of benefits to Diamonds, than about Gold members getting "too much".

+1

Also - this may be small in the scheme of things - but isn't the guaranteed lounge access at W-A new? I thought the prior T&C stated Diamonds only had access when actually upgraded to Exec Level Floor.

Makes perfect sense that they do not allow Diamond Force for award stays. When you get a Diamond Force you normally end up paying rack rates, but for an award, the hotel gets maybe $20 bucks.

No, no, no!

The only time I did a Diamond Force was to extend a work trip into a weekend. Since this was a mixed paid/award and the award was for two nights, of which only one was a "force", I ended up seeing the whole set of charges.

The "force" night cost me 50k points (cat 7) but I saw on the res wher it cost HH $379.00 + tax (did I mention this was an Embassy Suites? :eek:). My paid nights cost $249. When you consider the cost of points a hotel pays HH (single-digit $ per thousand), HH most definitely lost money on that one. Oh...since the reservation was so complex, I ended up getting points for both the paid and award nights and with the promo that was in effect back then, I ended up getting a crapload of points for the stay.

Even though HH lost money, it taught me the value of the program and why one should remain loyal. No more, I guess.

This is OT, but when did Hilton make the guaranteed for lounge for Diamond? I had an interesting discussion with HRCC today and I want to prepare an informed response. Basically they are saying there's no where the sun doesn't shine with Hilton and the competitors programmes pale in comparison...:D

This is OT, but when did Hilton make the guaranteed for lounge for Diamond? I had an interesting discussion with HRCC today and I want to prepare an informed response. Basically they are saying there's no where the sun doesn't shine with Hilton and the competitors programmes pale in comparison...:D

I know it's been at least that way for over 10 years. I made gold for the first time in 2001 and lounge access was a benefit for gold back then, so I know had to be for diamonds as well. They eventually took this benefit away from gold and I started shifting my stays to other chains over that loss of benefit. It's a benefit I don't see returning to gold since anyone living in the usa can obtain gold very easilly and cheaply now.

I have only had one hotel deny me access as a diamond (Drake in chicago). Every other hotel has honored the benefit with no problem.

No, no, no!

The only time I did a Diamond Force was to extend a work trip into a weekend. Since this was a mixed paid/award and the award was for two nights, of which only one was a "force", I ended up seeing the whole set of charges.

The "force" night cost me 50k points (cat 7) but I saw on the res wher it cost HH $379.00 + tax (did I mention this was an Embassy Suites? :eek:). My paid nights cost $249. When you consider the cost of points a hotel pays HH (single-digit $ per thousand), HH most definitely lost money on that one. Oh...since the reservation was so complex, I ended up getting points for both the paid and award nights and with the promo that was in effect back then, I ended up getting a crapload of points for the stay.

Even though HH lost money, it taught me the value of the program and why one should remain loyal. No more, I guess.

I remember reading that Hilton Corporate will reimburse individual hotels for honoring reward stays. The dollar value is based on an average nightly rate at the hotel throughout the year.

This scheme seems extremely fair to Hotels at vacation spots. However, it doesn't seem too fair for the hotels in the middle of nowhere. These hotels don't really have a peak season, and their rates remain constant throughout the year. Whereas the vacation spots can increase their prices many times over, and it will generally increase their yearly average.

It is also my understanding that each hotel pays to be part of HHonors, and this is the money that is used to reimburse hotels for award stays.

So, in the end, the hotel in the middle of nowhere may not get the easy credit for award stays, but they may get increased business from travelers if they are the only Hilton Family property in town and people maintain loyalty.

This is OT, but when did Hilton make the guaranteed for lounge for Diamond? I had an interesting discussion with HRCC today and I want to prepare an informed response. Basically they are saying there's no where the sun doesn't shine with Hilton and the competitors programmes pale in comparison...:D

It was only made explicit around 2010 I think.

It was only made explicit around 2010 I think.

Yes that's pretty much what I thought...

http://www.facebook.com/HiltonHHonors
Good idea. I left my note on HHonors FB page about disappointment with taking off Diamond Force for Reward stays. Might be worth for other FT readers - HH Diamond members - to express their feelings as well. Social media are usually traced by different unit, not Diamond Desk, so our opinions have more chances to make it to decision makers.

I have only had one hotel deny me access as a diamond (Drake in chicago). Every other hotel has honored the benefit with no problem.

Count also the Cavalieri Rome. No access for diamond to the upper lounge.

Makes perfect sense that they do not allow Diamond Force for award stays. When you get a Diamond Force you normally end up paying rack rates, but for an award, the hotel gets maybe $20 bucks.

Yes. And now? That was a main reason for me and for other to be a long time diamond member. What is now my benefits for being a diamond?

Good idea. I left my note on HHonors FB page about disappointment with taking off Diamond Force for Reward stays. Might be worth for other FT readers - HH Diamond members - to express their feelings as well. Social media are usually traced by different unit, not Diamond Desk, so our opinions have more chances to make it to decision makers.

Well they are providing a canned response now.

"Hilton HHonors - We understand your disappointment. Careful thought and consideration went into this decision. We are committed to ensuring that the program remains strong for our most loyal customers. We recognize that you have a choice when you travel and we hope that the benefits and the experiences that you have had over the years of your membership will be the deciding factor for your future travels. -*****"

We recognize that you have a choice when you travel and we hope that the benefits and the experiences that you have had over the years of your membership will be the deciding factor for your future travels. -*****"

LOL I found that part really funny. Instead of hoping you will find the "current" benefits of membership are competitive to the other choices, they want you to look at all your "previous" benefits and experiences and use those as the deciding factor to determine your future business.

It is like saying, "Hey I know we are not that great right now, but we treated you well before... just hang with us okay?"

Well they are providing a canned response now.

"Hilton HHonors - We understand your disappointment. Careful thought and consideration went into this decision. We are committed to ensuring that the program remains strong for our most loyal customers. We recognize that you have a choice when you travel and we hope that the benefits and the experiences that you have had over the years of your membership will be the deciding factor for your future travels. -*****"

Sounds just like the BS response when they got rid of RT.

...they want you to look at all your "previous" benefits and experiences and use those as the deciding factor to determine your future business
I do. Previous Hilton Diamond benefits are quickly deteriorating, my Hilton experiences are not as good as they used to be. That definitely will be deciding factor to determine my future business (and leisure too).

It is disappointing, but not really surprising, given the way things are going. There really doesn't seem to be much benefit to being Diamond anymore over Gold.

my thoughts exactly....after 6+ years as diamond, i'm finally going to let my status expire this year....

I do. Previous Hilton Diamond benefits are quickly deteriorating, my Hilton experiences are not as good as they used to be. That definitely will be deciding factor to determine my future business (and leisure too).
+1, I found my overall property experience took a hit after 2004. I guess that's why I've stayed with Starwood ever since. Perhaps, I will make Marriott my number two chain.

I am about to hit Diamond after Mid sept - I have not gone for diamond before with Hilton but the diamond force would allow us to take a holiday when we wanted and not when available.

maybe i should have done some research first but now i am about to be Diamond:

No diamond force (one of the main/only reasons why pursued this avenue)

The hotels we want to go to do nothing for Diamonds - A welcome drink or a one hour happy hour (which i could have got for Gold with a credit card)

Makes me wonder why i bothered - :rolleyes:

The extra points seem of little value - even on a $10,000 spend over the year - extra points accrued on base 25,000 does not even get a high cat hotel for a night.

please somebody raise my awareness - why should i go for diamond (or even gold) I can get a free credit card and use another chain or independent hotels and when i do absolutely need a hilton i will have gold from a crediti card.

When there is a change in T+Cs is there not normally a consultation period as we are invested partners in this scheme?


p.s If hiltons idea is premium room rewards - these too are out of reach of the usual point/hotel stay accrual.

Well they are providing a canned response now.

"Hilton HHonors - We understand your disappointment. Careful thought and consideration went into this decision. We are committed to ensuring that the program remains strong for our most loyal customers. We recognize that you have a choice when you travel and we hope that the benefits and the experiences that you have had over the years of your membership will be the deciding factor for your future travels. -*****"

What an awful response, especially the last sentence. Members of any loyalty program are interested in current and/or future benefits and current treatment not past benefits.


Up until a couple years ago, I loved Southwest. I thought their frequent flyer program was the best out there for me and benefited me with my travel schedule at that time, it was a better choice for me than NW/Delta, even though I was flying out of a NW hub. They kept making little changes I didn't like but the RR program was still great, but when they totally change the RR program, it no longer benefited me (and my travel schedule changed a lot). Delta's skymile program (I am talking the upgrades and other benefits not the skypesos) and flight schedule benefited me a lot more, I made the switch immediately. While WN had trated me well in the past (and I think they are still a good airline and meet the travel needs for people in a lot of areas), I didn't continue to fly with them when their frequent flyer program no longer benefited me as well as the competitions regardless of how much it had benefited me in the past.

And if Hilton has this type of response, they may not have any issues making other negative changes to the program. The response made no indication that they wouldn't be making further cuts to the program or they would be adding other benefits.

What an awful response, especially the last sentence. Members of any loyalty program are interested in current and/or future benefits and current treatment not past benefits.


Up until a couple years ago, I loved Southwest. I thought their frequent flyer program was the best out there for me and benefited me with my travel schedule at that time, it was a better choice for me than NW/Delta, even though I was flying out of a NW hub. They kept making little changes I didn't like but the RR program was still great, but when they totally change the RR program, it no longer benefited me (and my travel schedule changed a lot). Delta's skymile program (I am talking the upgrades and other benefits not the skypesos) and flight schedule benefited me a lot more, I made the switch immediately. While WN had trated me well in the past (and I think they are still a good airline and meet the travel needs for people in a lot of areas), I didn't continue to fly with them when their frequent flyer program no longer benefited me as well as the competitions regardless of how much it had benefited me in the past.

And if Hilton has this type of response, they may not have any issues making other negative changes to the program. The response made no indication that they wouldn't be making further cuts to the program or they would be adding other benefits.

I wrote a little rant on my blog about all this.

http://upgrd.com/blogs/damian/hilton-hhonors-hope-diamond-members-enjoyed-the-ride.html

Makes perfect sense that they do not allow Diamond Force for award stays. When you get a Diamond Force you normally end up paying rack rates, but for an award, the hotel gets maybe $20 bucks.

If your second sentence above were to be true -- and it is basically a lie -- then it would be a sign of the hotel and/or HHonors playing sleazy games against all HHonors members wanting to redeem points at the hotel.

I wrote a little rant on my blog about all this.

http://upgrd.com/blogs/damian/hilton-hhonors-hope-diamond-members-enjoyed-the-ride.html

GREAT post!

Not odd at all. When using Diamond Force, HHonors Diamond Desk has to talk to the hotel to make the booking. It is not instant. OP was screwed when the hotel uses the new policy to deny the request.

I've not had this problem. It's booked immediately for diamond 48, but I have been gold mostly and not diamond all that long.

I've not had this problem. It's booked immediately for diamond 48, but I have been gold mostly and not diamond all that long.

Paid Diamond force stays can book immediately but award stays (used to) require contacting the property directly for approval.

You folks are much more knowledgeable than I. I have occasionally found the Diamond Force on paid stays to be useful -- London hotels are booked, for example. All hotels are likely to be expensive and I can stay in a hotel that I like. I've also found they don't always work. But, I see that award Diamond Forces are no longer gone (I've never used this). Are paid Diamond Forces still part of the benefit?

I like upgrades to use Exec Lounge and free internet access. I'm not so sophisticated and don't really use much else. It is clear that Starwood points are much more valuable than Hilton points from a rewards standpoint. Both Gold and Diamond get these, I think, although Golds maybe at the discretion of the property. Is that correct? If the paid Diamond Force is gone, what are the other incentives to be Diamond rather than Gold?

You folks are much more knowledgeable than I. I have occasionally found the Diamond Force on paid stays to be useful -- London hotels are booked, for example. All hotels are likely to be expensive and I can stay in a hotel that I like. I've also found they don't always work. But, I see that award Diamond Forces are no longer gone (I've never used this). Are paid Diamond Forces still part of the benefit?

I like upgrades to use Exec Lounge and free internet access. I'm not so sophisticated and don't really use much else. It is clear that Starwood points are much more valuable than Hilton points from a rewards standpoint. Both Gold and Diamond get these, I think, although Golds maybe at the discretion of the property. Is that correct? If the paid Diamond Force is gone, what are the other incentives to be Diamond rather than Gold?

Unless you are on the exec floor already, lounge access is only available to Diamonds, not golds. When I was gold 10 years ago, it used to be a benefit, but that benefit went away. I'm sure part of the reason that benefit went away was due to so many people being able to achieve gold easilly and I am sure hilton will never bring that benefit back sinc eyou can ghet gold by just having a $90 a year credit card. I am hoping that benefit never goes away for diamonds since it's one of the few benefits left.

Outside of the lounge access, diamonds get suite upgrades (which I have had luck with at every chicago property but not so much at other properties), 50% bonus points instead of 25% (not a big deal), and you get the point bonus on top of free breakfast instead of having to chose between the two for my way (again not a big deal).

Diamond force is still around for paid stays (which is usually rack rate which makes sense if the hotel is sold out). But if the hotel is expecting unusual demand (which if they are sold out that means rooms are in demand) they can opt out on certain dates from honoring diamond force reservations. I am sure if you try to book a room in London using diamond force during the olympics they won't honor that benefit.

One benefit I liked in q4 of 2010 was they ran a diamond retention promo where for every 10 nights you got a qf3n certificate. This was available that quarter to only diamonds, no one else so that was a nice benefit. Especially seeing they had the regular promo (I think it was double points) and the Delta MQM promo going on so I wias able to take advantage of 3 promos at the same time in November and December.

It's funny that there is so little difference between diamond and gold that examples of a one time promo two years ago has to be used. UYpgrades to suites is virtually going away now that they can charge for them.
I have already past 100 nights, and will be diamond next year. I am now considering my other options. I plan my major vacations around points and miles. My airline already makes it tough enough to get preferred dates, but I have learned to be very flexible. Now, HH says to not count on the hotel I want to be available. Since I have had to use the force many times (mostly France and Italy), it's clear my points have much less value.
Folks that use their points the way I do are silly to limit their "loyalty." HH knew some of us would be upset, but we are mere casualties of their continuing war to downgrade the value of points.

It's funny that there is so little difference between diamond and gold that examples of a one time promo two years ago has to be used.

Hilton is going to widen the gap between Diamond and Gold status by flooding the market with more Hilton Golds and decreasing the frequency by which the average Gold gets the better upgrades.

The way by which this devaluation hits is that a smaller percentage of Golds will get the better upgrades than before and more of the to-be-less-frequent-benefits are assigned in a more "you are your rate tonight" scheme.

A further shift to rewarding affinity credit card acquirers at the expense of benefits for elites with no such affinity credit card possession is a devaluation in yet another form.

Hilton is going to widen the gap between Diamond and Gold status by flooding the market with more Hilton Golds and decreasing the frequency by which the average Gold gets the better upgrades.

The way by which this devaluation hits is that a smaller percentage of Golds will get the better upgrades than before and more of the to-be-less-frequent-benefits are assigned in a more "you are your rate tonight" scheme.

A further shift to rewarding affinity credit card acquirers at the expense of benefits for elites with no such affinity credit card possession is a devaluation in yet another form.
Hasn't Hilton already done that pre-CC offer. I remember a time when you could get Gold status by virtue of being an Amtrak Guest Rewards member. These days, all you have to do is the MVP challenge, where you get Gold after four stays. It's not much of a challenge at all (clearly), and the benefits are nearly equivalent to Diamond. There really isn't a point in being Diamond anymore.

The diamond force on reward stays has ben what kept me here. Worthless to me for paid stays because of the rack rate, but the ability to use my points...

Been diamond for 6 years, already have diamond for 2013 with 31 stays. I feel that Hilton is ruining their reward program. Will give SPG a shot to earn my business.

Been diamond for 6 years, already have diamond for 2013 with 31 stays. I feel that Hilton is ruining their reward program. Will give SPG a shot to earn my business.



May as well walk across the street (where there is a **wood hotel available), no reward stays on D48 either and pay higher rates (did I mention, no double dip either). Why not? Makes perfect sense, if it works for you.:rolleyes:

**wood has limited locations, and you still will not have D48 for reward stays. So in either case, you will still have to plan vacations ahead of time if you are using your points.

Whatever makes most sense for you. But, I do understand your frustration, just not so sure changing hotel chains will solve the issue.;)

If you can keep top tier status with 2 chains this might help by giving you more flexibility.

Any news how things are going with Marriott for status match, platinum challenge, etc for Hilton Diamond "refugees" ??

Thanks guys.

Been diamond for 6 years, already have diamond for 2013 with 31 stays. I feel that Hilton is ruining their reward program. Will give SPG a shot to earn my business.

Don't expect much. I've been *Wood Platinum for the last 3 years and really don't see much difference between their Gold tier, other than lounge access and continental breakfast.... if you want the suite upgrade benefit, be prepared to fight the hotel front desk 99% of the time.

Have only used the Diamond Force for an award once, so not necessarily sad to see it go.

Don't expect much. I've been *Wood Platinum for the last 3 years and really don't see much difference between their Gold tier, other than lounge access and continental breakfast.... if you want the suite upgrade benefit, be prepared to fight the hotel front desk 99% of the time.

Have only used the Diamond Force for an award once, so not necessarily sad to see it go.

it all depends on where you are traveling....in asia i have never had to fight for a suite upgrade & i get it 99% of the time....

I've been a member since '87 - Hilton has treated me very well - in the past.

I have just completed the SPG Plat challenge, 18 nights in the past 3 months - haven't booked a Hilton room since.

Hilton should make Diamond harder to achieve and return some benefits to the level.

Hilton should make Diamond harder to achieve and return some benefits to the level.

I am diamond via Surpass spend but see your fustration and feel it should also be harder to achieve gold as well.

I had 24 paid stays with hilton last year so a few short of earning Diamond that regular way but more than enough for Gold.

The reason I just go for diamond with the surpass stay is that gold is worthless anymore. Gold used to get lounge access and that isn't the case anymore. and upgrades are really hard to get. But you can get gold by simply having a $90 a year credit card. With gold being so easy to get, Hilton can't allow access to the lounge for golds no on the exec floor anymore without there being a huge overcrowding issue.

I can understand someone with diamond the traditional way being upset that Hilton is handing out diamond status with a simple $40K in credit card spend, but I am feeling the same thing seeing if I didn't have the surpass card, I would have the same status with 24 paid stays in a year as someone just having a credit card with a $90 a year fee or able to get the status by some promo like having a signature visa card or only staying four stays in a year with the MVP fast track.

And it isn't just Hilton doing it with Am Ex. As a paid skyclub member I feel the same fustration when I see a person in line ahead of me getting by jsut having their am ex Platnium card swiped as a Hilton Diamond has to feel by someone getting diamond status by justing having an am ex card.

Don't expect much. I've been *Wood Platinum for the last 3 years and really don't see much difference between their Gold tier, other than lounge access and continental breakfast.... if you want the suite upgrade benefit, be prepared to fight the hotel front desk 99% of the time.

Have only used the Diamond Force for an award once, so not necessarily sad to see it go.

YMMV. The DSA is one of those not often used but worth a ton benefits. I used it 4 times the past 2 years, each time was worth gold.

Now DL has replaced it with a rock. :td:

YMMV. The DSA is one of those not often used but worth a ton benefits. I used it 4 times the past 2 years, each time was worth gold.

Now DL has replaced it with a rock. :td:

It worked great for me the first time i stayed at the DT Times square on new years and one time at the Bentley when rates were $1k a night. There were two times this year I tried using diamond force for paid stays and was told they wouldn't honor it because the hotels had extraordinary demand:(

I only used Diamond Force once a year or so but it was worth its weight in gold. There is very little point for me in going for Diamond anymore if the only real difference vs. Gold is extra points. There is no value in more points if "premium" rooms are costing four or five times what they used to. I am switching the bulk of my stays to SPG where I can. I would rather hit 100 nights with Starwood and get 4 points/$, 10 Suite Night upgrades, YouFirst 24 hour check in and my own Ambassador.

It worked great for me the first time i stayed at the DT Times square on new years and one time at the Bentley when rates were $1k a night. There were two times this year I tried using diamond force for paid stays and was told they wouldn't honor it because the hotels had extraordinary demand:(

Hence I think there is no value to "No Blackout dates" and that is just marketing crap.

YMMV. The DSA is one of those not often used but worth a ton benefits. I used it 4 times the past 2 years, each time was worth gold.

Same here. I've only used it 2 times. But both times, it was mightily appreciated and saved me lots of $$$. Though rarely used by me, it was one of the main reasons I stayed Diamond with Hilton.

The guaranteed lounge is a nice benefit. But in the past 2 yrs they have become so overcrowded that often there is SRO and the behaviors are seen have really deteriorated Maybe it's the crowds but I've seen more of the greedy, selfish behavior of taking the ENTIRE bottle of wine (and once scotch) to someone's table (if self-serve) and massive piling of food onto plates so the food offerings are stripped extremely quickly. I feel sorry for the lounge attendants, struggling to keep up w/demand (and clean up) and trying to control the rude behaviors (also have ppl conversing extremely loudly, prb cuz very drunk after draining an entire bottle of liquor). This makes the lounge benefit not so pleasant any more. So just having guaranteed EL is really not enough to keep me Diamond.

The guaranteed lounge is a nice benefit. But in the past 2 yrs they have become so overcrowded that often there is SRO and the behaviors are seen have really deteriorated Maybe it's the crowds but I've seen more of the greedy, selfish behavior of taking the ENTIRE bottle of wine (and once scotch) to someone's table (if self-serve) and massive piling of food onto plates so the food offerings are stripped extremely quickly. I feel sorry for the lounge attendants, struggling to keep up w/demand (and clean up) and trying to control the rude behaviors (also have ppl conversing extremely loudly, prb cuz very drunk after draining an entire bottle of liquor). This makes the lounge benefit not so pleasant any more. So just having guaranteed EL is really not enough to keep me Diamond.

I wish Hilton would enforce entrance to only people staying on the exec floor and diamonds and ONE GUEST and that would help a lot with the congestion.

I was at the Washington Hilton in January and overhead someone on their cell phone telling their friends she would come down to their floor and get them and there were free appetizers and soft drinks in the lounge and 5 minutes later she had 2 adults and 2 kids she brought in. The attendant by the door should have asked for a room number before just allowing her to use her key to enter. A long time ago I was staying at the Palmer house in chicago (when gold members got lounge access) and there wa sa teenage dance convention going on and I saw a couple girls got on the elevator with me riding up to 23 and they went to the fridge and raided all the soda and water and put it in a duffel bag. That was iritating since I went up there for a bottled water and there was no bottled water left. This behavior not only overcrowds the lounge, but the poachers are making it more expensive for the lounges to provide better choices.

I wish Hilton would allow 2 guests in per room and charge for extra guests and have better offerings.

I have been a Diamond member for 18 years and am closing in on 1000 lifetime stays. In that time I have only used the diamond force once, but it was a HUGE savings and made a big difference in a special occassion trip with my wife.

I only call the diamond desk for help once ever two or three years and they are always helpful. That said, I have seen a dramatic reduction in the value of Diamond status over the years. This coupled with the tremendous erosion in the value of points has me rethinking my loyalty. 800,000 points used to represent real opportunity - with the new premium awards now it can bee blown on one trip to a signature destination. By far the best recognition of diamond has been on trips to China and Japan - they still seem to realy value the diamond designation. In the US it seems almost useless as distinguished from gold. Now that diamond status can be earned with spending 40K on a cc I am considering maintaing diamond status that way and looking at other opptions for my regular business stays. My brother-in-law has been tying to get me to switch to Marriott for 20 years; now I can get top staus at two chains and compare the benefits. Every cloud has a silver lining.

This is ideed sad. I have had to use the force many times, and it was a positive for being a diamond. Many of us first nail the flights down ,if using miles. Some airlines (especially my Delta) make it difficult to use the miles.
Once I get my dates I start booking my stays. Now, it's very possible my hotel of choice will not be available.
One of the major reasons I spend around 200 nights a year with HH properties is to be sure I can use my points in Rome, Venice, Florence, Munich, etc. Now, it's a roll of the dice-and I hate snake eyes.
I guess it's time to shuffle my stays elsewhere to best protect myself. Not sure if Marriott ,or SPG are my best bets, but no force means that once again HH has thumbed its nose at diamonds.
By the way, I know all the hotel chains have weaknesses. But, the force simply meant I was sure I'd use my points as I desired. Now, it's leading to using them only when the hotel allows. Eventually, i expect there will be tiers with higher points for peak times.

+1.

I was seriously considering taking up the Diamond challenge. After reading these Diamond dilutions and how close Gold is to Diamond, I'll just settle for the 1 stay to get Gold (thanks to the AA and other airline promotion). I'll just continue on my way to SPG Plat 75/100 and have an OK backup in Hilton Gold.

I'm sure it's been mentioned in the FT forums already, but for those interested: http://thepointsguy.com/2012/08/targeted-offer-free-hilton-gold-status-and-up-to-50000-points/

On the Hyatt forum, most people are complaining about Hyatt downgrading the program by having less exciting promos. But that pales to Hilton, which is downgrading the program by gutting the top level.

I had already given up on Diamond and only made Gold last year. Right now, requalifying for Gold is not at all clear - I only have 7 stays so far, although I will have two more later this month. Unless I'm traveling with co-workers who prefer Hilton over Hyatt or Marriott, I probably am done with these folks (other than finding a few stays to burn my last 220k of points).