Luxury Hotels - Four Seasons or Mandarin Oriental in Las Vegas?

I am looking at spending 2 nights in Las Vegas during the middle of August.

I can't decide between either of these hotels. Does the forum have some advice as to what are the pros and cons of each one?

Two great hotels. I feel with either you will be very happy. If you plan on spending more time within the hotel or at a specific restaurant, that can help you choose or if you are walking to a place that is closer to one hotel, that could be the reason to pick one over the other. I would not hesitate with choosing either, both are excellent.

Agreed.

For me, though I love the tranquility of the FS, the MO is in a much better location. Add to that the "tiredness" of Mandalay Bay, and I might just lean towards MO.

Agreed.

For me, though I love the tranquility of the FS, the MO is in a much better location. Add to that the "tiredness" of Mandalay Bay, and I might just lean towards MO.

^ / "
Especially in the Aug heat!

I have stayed at both. Prefer the four seasons, no question.

I agree with what has been written.

The MO is newer and has a fabulous room product and stunning views of the Strip, especially from the bar.

The FS is more subdued. Walking in the lobby, it's as if you've escaped the hectic frenzy of Vegas and entered a secluded retreat. I think the FS probably has better service, and upgrades happen more frequently here. Better pool - and access to the Mandalay Bay pool too, if that's of any interest.

You won't go wrong with either choice!

We have been debating this exact question. We have a five night stay in October and have booked a suite at the FS.
We decided on that because of the service, pool and views. The MO rooms look fantastic though and I will be checking them out when we are there.
C

Been to both. MO Vegas was outright hostile to my virtuoso booking. We were put into a postage stamp standard room with a fantastic view of the Monte Carlo hotel roof. I've never seen a nicer roof. The public areas are dark, making it a fine environmental for bats. YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO USE THE CABANAS at the pool! So don't ask. The service at the Mosen restaurant was humorously bad. You can't eat in the lobby bar. Again, don't ask. The hotel is very awkward in City Center, but CC is one of the world's great jokes. Even the cab drivers have trouble finding it. To get to Aria and gambling requires a hike up several flights of stairs, followed by the crossing of a bus stop. The rooms have that high tech thing, requiring a user's manual to turn off the lights. 'Light switches' are so old fashioned. 60% of our closest-room was bathroom. The bell boys were good, helpful and very friendly. This is the only hotel in Vegas were I have been greeted by name. We didn't eat at the signature restaurants, but they both appear to be good.

FS Vegas is OK, but very much on the lower end of the chain, but hey, this is VEGAS. Be aware of the 'resort fee'. I find the place much more comfortable than the MO. More of a hostile oasis vibe within the Vegas chaos. The bell staff is more interested in hitting on chicks than helping guests ... that is, if they are present at all. The facilities at Mandalay Bay are much easier to get to, since, well, because, uhhh, FS is wholly contained within the Mandalay building. This point was lost on Lyn and Dave of Gallivanter's fame in their infamous, bewildering Apr'12 issue. Those two threw credibility aside in that issue.

FS is my choice in Vegas, but I dislike the city. Actually, I'm going there this week for the BlackHat Conference. And I'm not looking forward to it.

PS -- Just got back. Still issues with the bell staff, but otherwise a very good stay. (7/27/12)

Been to both. MO Vegas was outright hostile to my virtuoso booking. We were put into a postage stamp standard room with a fantastic view of the Monte Carlo hotel roof. I've never seen a nicer roof. The public areas are dark, making it a fine environmental for bats. YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO USE THE CABANAS at the pool! So don't ask. The service at the Mosen restaurant was humorously bad. You can't eat in the lobby bar. Again, don't ask. The hotel is very awkward in City Center, but CC is one of the world's great jokes. Even the cab drivers have trouble finding it. To get to Aria and gambling requires a hike up several flights of stairs, followed by the crossing of a bus stop. The rooms have that high tech thing, requiring a user's manual to turn off the lights. 'Light switches' are so old fashioned. 60% of our closest-room was bathroom. The bell boys were good, helpful and very friendly. This is the only hotel in Vegas were I have been greeted by name. We didn't eat at the signature restaurants, but they both appear to be good.

FS Vegas is OK, but very much on the lower end of the chain, but hey, this is VEGAS. Be aware of the 'resort fee'. I find the place much more comfortable than the MO. More of a hostile oasis vibe within the Vegas chaos. The bell staff is more interested in hitting on chicks than helping guests ... that is, if they are present at all. The facilities at Mandalay Bay are much easier to get to, since, well, because, uhhh, FS is wholly contained within the Mandalay building. This point was lost on Lyn and Dave of Gallivanter's fame in their infamous, bewildering Apr'12 issue. Those two threw credibility aside in that issue.

FS is my choice in Vegas, but I dislike the city. Actually, I'm going there this week for the BlackHat Conference. And I'm not looking forward to it.

Mandarin Oriental, some points against yours:

You can use the cabanas if you pay for them.

All cab drivers know where CC is now. If one gave you the impression he didn't he was long hauling you. ;)

Several flights of stairs to get to Aria? There is one flight of stairs. The road you cross is what, 20/25 foot wide with minimal traffic.

You have to be pretty stupid if you can't figure out how to press the lighting button on the touch screen pad by the bedside table.... You can switch off the lighting using the switches by the bed too.

I agree with what has been written.

The MO is newer and has a fabulous room product and stunning views of the Strip, especially from the bar.

The FS is more subdued. Walking in the lobby, it's as if you've escaped the hectic frenzy of Vegas and entered a secluded retreat. I think the FS probably has better service, and upgrades happen more frequently here. Better pool - and access to the Mandalay Bay pool too, if that's of any interest.

You won't go wrong with either choice!

I agree with David. I stayed at the MO last weekend; have stayed at the 4S the prior two trips. Where I go next really depends on what I'm looking for that particular trip. I don't think I've ever been upgraded at the MO but the lowest level rooms are better than anything at the 4S up to the Executive Suite level.

Modern vibe, room, location, spa - MO

Relaxed vibe, pool, main restaurant - 4S

Toss up over which adjacent casino is better. Maybe MO.

I prefer the Four Seasons, but the Mandalay Bay complex is one of my favourites so I'm a bit biased. Pool area is amazing, restaurants are good. And you're down the "novelty" end of the strip which I prefer though it is a little out of the way. I didn't gamble there so don't know about the casino.

The four seasons itself is out of the way of mainstream Mandalay Bay which is a big advantage with none of the drawbacks.

The MO also now charges a Resort fee as well.

One thing I found about MoZEN was their penchant to nickle and dime you. With the American breakfast I was charged $9 for a second glass of Orange juice. At the FS, you can drink virtually as much juice as you want with their breakfast. Eating outside at Verandah is very enjoyable as opposed to indoors at MoZEN.

I don't like the fact the most of the room at the MO is taken up by bathroom. The views of the Strip are great from the MO but I find the views just as stunning from the FS Strip rooms as well.

Between the two, I prefer the FS overall but the location is a bit remote, which can be a good thing in Vegas. One last note, the House car at the MO doesn't like to take you to the airport even though it is within radius. At the FS, no such problems.

Enjoy your trip!

I think DavidO captures it perfectly.

I just returned from a visit to the MO, which was a visit intended to make up for what I consider significant service issues experienced during my last stay.

MO has the far superior location and newer furnishings (although they are starting to show wear and tear...who wants to see scuff marks on a dark lacquered floor???). They do try but the service is just not there. They were clearly trying hard this weekend and I was still astounded by the amateur level of service (for example, who leaves a large platter of sliced fruit with mold on it in the living room for three days?). If this past weekend is anything to judge by, the hotel is starting to attract a slightly older variation on the Encore Beach crowd, which I try to actively avoid when I am in Vegas.

Despite its dated appearance, the FS is the better hotel. It is a quiet oasis with impeccable service. Unfortunately the location means you have to take cabs (or the hotel courtesy car) up the Strip.

I've never been to the FS in Vegas, but I love the MO. Mostly, I love that you don't see drunken idiots stumbling around. I love that you can get to your room in less than 4 minutes from walking in the door. I thought the entry level room size was pretty generous and loved all the bells and whistles. I love the relaxing un-vegas vibe. That being said, I hate Vegas, and the MO is the only place I feel like I'm not on somebody else's bachelor party.

I've never been to the FS in Vegas, but I love the MO. Mostly, I love that you don't see drunken idiots stumbling around. I love that you can get to your room in less than 4 minutes from walking in the door. I thought the entry level room size was pretty generous and loved all the bells and whistles. I love the relaxing un-vegas vibe. That being said, I hate Vegas, and the MO is the only place I feel like I'm not on somebody else's bachelor party.

FS is quite good for this as well- it has a completely separate entrance, I have never seen drunk people their (idiots or otherwise) as it really doesn't have that type of atmoshphere, unless you are a drunken idiot you will be able to get to your room in less than 4 minutes, and the vibe is completely un-vegas which is great.

I am completely with you in hating Vegas by the way- so FS is where I "hide away" if I go at all. This being said- the FS is overdue for a rennovation- whereas the MO is a brand new hotel.

I've never been to the FS in Vegas, but I love the MO. Mostly, I love that you don't see drunken idiots stumbling around. I love that you can get to your room in less than 4 minutes from walking in the door. I thought the entry level room size was pretty generous and loved all the bells and whistles. I love the relaxing un-vegas vibe. That being said, I hate Vegas, and the MO is the only place I feel like I'm not on somebody else's bachelor party.

Have you been the MO lately? Obviously the crowd can change from weekend to weekend but on my last two stays, I've seen a few fairly drunk bachelor/bachelorette parties staying at the MO. They tend to be in their 40s and better dressed than the drunken idiots I've encountered at other Strip properties, but they do exist.

Mandarin Oriental, some points against yours:

You can use the cabanas if you pay for them.

All cab drivers know where CC is now. If one gave you the impression he didn't he was long hauling you. ;)

Several flights of stairs to get to Aria? There is one flight of stairs. The road you cross is what, 20/25 foot wide with minimal traffic.

You have to be pretty stupid if you can't figure out how to press the lighting button on the touch screen pad by the bedside table.... You can switch off the lighting using the switches by the bed too.

+1^

FS is VERY tired and is about to commence a major refurb. Dining there is extremely limited, whereas at MO dining at Twist & Mozen is very good indeed. It's a place for grown-ups who do not necessarily gamble, whereas FS is better for families as the Mandalay pool is next door. These days I much prefer MO - it feels smaller and quieter than anything else in Vegas and has some great suites.

FS is VERY tired and is about to commence a major refurb. Dining there is extremely limited, whereas at MO dining at Twist & Mozen is very good indeed. It's a place for grown-ups who do not necessarily gamble, whereas FS is better for families as the Mandalay pool is next door. These days I much prefer MO - it feels smaller and quieter than anything else in Vegas and has some great suites.


I can't speak to the MO and haven't stayed at either property, but my two cents from having met several ex-FS LV employees at other Four Seasons' hotels is that they are some of the best people in their system.

FS is VERY tired and is about to commence a major refurb. Dining there is extremely limited, whereas at MO dining at Twist & Mozen is very good indeed. It's a place for grown-ups who do not necessarily gamble, whereas FS is better for families as the Mandalay pool is next door. These days I much prefer MO - it feels smaller and quieter than anything else in Vegas and has some great suites.
You make the same mistake that Lyn and David did in their silly review. Why not walk 30 ft into Mandalay Bay and eat at the two dozen or so restaurants? Why is that verboten?

Dining there is extremely limited, whereas at MO dining at Twist & Mozen is very good indeed.Just a reminder that Pierre Gagnaire will be in residence at Twist from August 27th through September 6th.

You make the same mistake that Lyn and David did in their silly review. Why not walk 30 ft into Mandalay Bay and eat at the two dozen or so restaurants? Why is that verboten?

It's not verboten. I just think that a really good hotel should offer first class in-hotel dining.

I have been staying at the FS since it opened and used to love it, but felt that the restaurant now is more like a sport's bar and had lost its edge. I don't always want to go 'out' to dine, especially when jet-lagged. For international travellers, a good hotel restaurant or two is very important.

MO offered a really good range of dining options. Twist was superb. I also liked the intimacy of the hotel, but perhaps that is because I am European and appreciate the Asian elegance of the MO.

I don't gamble, but I have never been too impressed by Mandalay Bay's casino, nor, for that matter, by its dining options.

I guess I am just as silly.

I don't mind the restaurants in the Mandalay, but I'm not in love with their casino. But we do like the FS, and will end up gambling at Mandalay most of the time just to keep it easy. I like the "secret door" between the hotels.

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Had a superb 3 nt stay at MO in July. Location much appreciated in the heat.

Room, food (bfast), pool were outstanding.

Service is not up to Hong Kong standards, but they do a nice job and have a good attitude.

Had to request the visa sig upgrade, and policy is just one category. On the otherhand, we received a ride to the airport in the hotel's Mercedes without asking.

I would prob not stay anywhere else in Vegas, but
haven't tried the FS--decor and location doesn't
appeal to me.

Stayed in both and enjoyed both for different reasons-

MO has a good location, excellent rooms, bars and restaurants, breakfast is best by the pool rather than MOzen, pool service is pretty good.

FS has a more tranquil atmosphere, the pool service cannot be beaten in Vegas, rooms need a revamp. Poolside breakfast is again very good.

Here is a link to the rooms renovation that is taking place. It includes a bunch of pictures and a virtual tour!
http://www.fourseasons.com/lasvegas/landing_pages/property/vgs_renovations.html

both FS and MO rent pool for events
http://www.mandarinoriental.com/lasvegas/meetings/meeting_space/
http://www.fourseasons.com/lasvegas/meetings_and_events/function_rooms/pool/
interesting at FS >
Complimentary Amenities
Private satellite check-in upon request for groups reserving 50 rooms or more
like RC barcelona. this should be standard operating procedure for luxury hotels for all groups.

Here is a link to the rooms renovation that is taking place. It includes a bunch of pictures and a virtual tour!
http://www.fourseasons.com/lasvegas/landing_pages/property/vgs_renovations.html

Wow. So ugly.

both FS and MO rent pool for events
http://www.mandarinoriental.com/lasvegas/meetings/meeting_space/
http://www.fourseasons.com/lasvegas/meetings_and_events/function_rooms/pool/

So, both of these hotels have no issue with booking up the only pool and denying usage of it to payings guests. Classy.

So, both of these hotels have no issue with booking up the only pool and denying usage of it to payings guests. Classy.

No, in the case of the 4S it states available only "after dark" when the pool is closed. The MO mentions dinner service, so it may be a similar situation.

No, in the case of the 4S it states available only "after dark" when the pool is closed. The MO mentions dinner service, so it may be a similar situation.

Excellent. I missed that (at least in the case of the FS). So, good for them for treating invidual guests with the same level of respect as they would treat large parties (who are potentially not even guests).

The clientele at the MO LV is not your typical MO clientele and I imagine the same is true to an extent at the FS. The MO is very nice, and still fairly new with a fresh feeling to it. I personally find the decor a bit over the top. Only been to Vegas once and don't have any plans to return but the FS appeals to me as its a non-smoking and non-gaming property and perhaps attracts a more sophisticated crowd.

Apparently the MO is now being listed on the likes of Hotwire and Priceline, and look at their average daily rates and its no surprise they attract the clientelle they do. My worry is they are becoming like the W South Beach where you have people split a room 6-8 ways and hold loud parties with other non-guests and make excessive noise.

The resort fee/golden access is non-sense IMO. I’m not aware of other properties that charge the fee except perhaps the MO Riviera Maya currently closed for renovation. I imagine they are testing the waters here and it won’t be long until they add fees to Miami and other properties.

But seriously, who is Vegas is awake 6-8am besides a few business travelers and departing passengers to enjoy their free coffee or tea?

Golden Access Fee:
Room rate is subject to a daily Golden Access fee of USD 24 plus 12% room tax. Amenities may change without prior notice.
Wired and wireless Internet access throughout the hotel for up to five devices (excluding convention areas)
Fitness & Wellness Center access (2 passes daily) and scheduled yoga or Pilates classes (subject to availability)
Morning coffee or tea (from 6am–8am)
Unlimited in-room local and toll-free calls
Daily newspaper upon request
Overnight shoe shine services

I'm a big fan of the FHR breakfast at the FS. How does the FHR breakfast at the MO compare?

I'm a big fan of the FHR breakfast at the FS. How does the FHR breakfast at the MO compare?

I think it was a $42 breakfast credit. Can be used towards room service or mozen bistro

I think it was a $42 breakfast credit. Can be used towards room service or mozen bistro

NB: this will only get you a continental breakfast. I spent at least $40 dollars on cooked breakfast for two AFTER the $50 credit from Visa. Mozen breakfast was superb and lots of choices. If you like Mexican style eggs, definitely try theirs.

Here is a link to the rooms renovation that is taking place. It includes a bunch of pictures and a virtual tour!
http://www.fourseasons.com/lasvegas/landing_pages/property/vgs_renovations.html

I was shown the mock up Premier Strip View suite this weekend while in house and the new room design looks fantastic. It is pretty much unrecognizable from its current sad state. Very glamourous without going over the top and retains an air of class. The photos don't actually do it justice.

Schedule is that the first set of rooms will start renovations in late October and the bulk of the rooms will be done for mid December. The remaining rooms are to be completed by mid January. Let's hope they can stay on that schedule.

I have been to Vegas 100+ times and stayed at FS three times (all last year or year before) and MO probably 5 or 6 times in the past 12 months. I personally prefer MO hands down to FS. FS feels very old and dated to me - probably one of the worst FS (but still an FS) properties I have stayed at.

Personally I love the MO in vegas. I find it very comfortable - the staff to be great and the food at mozen to be superb. I was not impressed by twist though - expected better.

When I go to vegas I only stay at the MO now (even when it was twice the cost of the FS).

To me the view is not a big deal (having seen it so many times). The most important thing is a nice room, good food and good service. I like the pool at MO better but then again I prefer something quiet. I was just there 2 weeks ago and had a business meeting with a client. We went to Mozen for breakfast at 10:30am and then were by the pool from 11am until 5pm. We were able to go over the entire project in a very relaxed and comfortable environment that was mostly private and still get some sun.

I did have a few issues at the MO (all with checkin) the first few times I went but they seem to be smoothed out now. Last time I went everything went perfectly. I was only in Vegas for a night in the middle of a 8 city in 12 day trip and it was a very nice way to rejuvenate for a day.

NB: this will only get you a continental breakfast. I spent at least $40 dollars on cooked breakfast for two AFTER the $50 credit from Visa. Mozen breakfast was superb and lots of choices. If you like Mexican style eggs, definitely try theirs.

Not true, it gets you anything you want off the breakfast menu up to a value of $48.

The resort fee/golden access is non-sense IMO. I’m not aware of other properties that charge the fee except perhaps the MO Riviera Maya currently closed for renovation. I imagine they are testing the waters here and it won’t be long until they add fees to Miami and other properties.

But seriously, who is Vegas is awake 6-8am besides a few business travelers and departing passengers to enjoy their free coffee or tea?

Quote:
Golden Access Fee:
Room rate is subject to a daily Golden Access fee of USD 24 plus 12% room tax. Amenities may change without prior notice.
Wired and wireless Internet access throughout the hotel for up to five devices (excluding convention areas)
Fitness & Wellness Center access (2 passes daily) and scheduled yoga or Pilates classes (subject to availability)
Morning coffee or tea (from 6am–8am)
Unlimited in-room local and toll-free calls
Daily newspaper upon request
Overnight shoe shine services
I hate the golden access fee.
I stayed at the MO right from the start and included in the room rate was everything but the 'free' coffee, internet access & local calls. Every other amenity was included as I say and due to my stay patterns I could get the internet cheaper than the fee they now charge. The free coffee is not good either on the rare occasion I've been able to get some.

Not true, it gets you anything you want off the breakfast menu up to a value of $48.

Yes, it is true in that to have two cooked entrees (17-20), coffee (9 dollars) and juice (7-12), you will end up going way over the credit and will pay substantial costs out of pocket.

I found the FS disappointing....moved to the MO & loved it.

FS are our go-to brand however, Las Vegas has joined our never again FS list of Singapore & Sydney :td:

Was this a recent stay (i.e. before renovations)?

What did you not like about it?

FS renovations >
Schedule is that the first set of rooms will start renovations in late October and the bulk of the rooms will be done for mid December. The remaining rooms are to be completed by mid January.

Thanks Kage. For some reason I had it in my head they were to be completed by October (thus some having been finished already).

Was this a recent stay (i.e. before renovations)?

What did you not like about it?

April last year.

Pool area was a let down with service ceasing pretty early....had to walk into the bar to get your own drinks around 5pm or so.
Location not very central.
Dated rooms/lobby.
Staff seemed disinterested.
TBH the whole place seemed fake/faux looking.

Being a regular at FS HKG - the bar has been set very high!

Am I the only one that when in Vegas, and actually planning to have a typical Vegas stay, would just prefer to stay at the Wynn? In other cities I would pick MO/4S over a regular 5* any day but this city is a different animal completely.

I´m in Vegas next jear. FS seems to be to old, I think I will book a Dynasty Suite at the MO. I only think about the Skylofts as an alternative

Might I suggest that you consider Wynn or Encore. Clearly very Vegas type of properties, but really exceptional facilities and if you book a tower suite, can be exceptionally private.

Just spent the weekend in a suite at the MO. In some ways the place and room are deeply flawed (storage space, personalized service, privacy for any lower floor room) but some parts are terrific (pool cabanas, in room technology, decor, spa). I think I will keep more or less alternating between the two. 4S is next. That said, won't stay in a suite at the MO again. Not worth the extra

Correct me if I'm wrong but room service at the 4S comes from Mandalay Bay, no? I remember the food there to be mediocre.

Might I suggest that you consider Wynn or Encore. Clearly very Vegas type of properties, but really exceptional facilities and if you book a tower suite, can be exceptionally private.

I don´t really like the location. It´s a little far away. The suite with round about 200 sqm looks nice

I don´t really like the location. It´s a little far away. The suite with round about 200 sqm looks nice

My experience is that Wynn Encore is a location in and of itself.

The FS is just as remote being on the very South end of The Strip.

Correct me if I'm wrong but room service at the 4S comes from Mandalay Bay, no? I remember the food there to be mediocre.

Yes, and yes (at best).

Yes, and yes (at best).

weird.

Four Seasons has it's own 3 meals a day restaurant. Plus there is a steak house. You would think they they would be able to service their own block of rooms.

weird.

Four Seasons has it's own 3 meals a day restaurant. Plus there is a steak house. You would think they they would be able to service their own block of rooms.

Shocking, the FS food would be a reason to stay there.

FS renovations are scheduled to complete December 17. I am booked on a stay from Dec 21 - 23 and have been guaranteed a renovated room by management. If no one else posts before me I'll certainly post pics and my thoughts.

I have always enjoyed previous stays, but my last visit was nearly 3 years ago. I decided not to return until a major refurb was completed because the rooms were just far too tired and can't compete with most of the newer resorts.

The FSPP benefit used to include dinner for 2 at Charlie Palmer steak, which I rather enjoyed. However I am advised the FSPP benefit is now dinner at Verandah. I'm quite disappointed, as I don't think Verandah has ever been very good for any meal.

Four Seasons has its own kitchen that prepares food only for Four Seasons Rooms. MGM Resorts International only collects money as the owner, Four Seasons has complete control over the property and has its own everything.

Four Seasons has its own kitchen that prepares food only for Four Seasons Rooms. MGM Resorts International only collects money as the owner, Four Seasons has complete control over the property and has its own everything.

It seems we have very different experiences on whether this is the case or not. Some of us seems to have been served from Mandalay Bay.

This being said- the FS is overdue for a rennovation- whereas the MO is a brand new hotel.


Starting on October 31st to January 2013-The FS will undergo a remodel of rooms and public places.

The FSPP benefit used to include dinner for 2 at Charlie Palmer steak, which I rather enjoyed. However I am advised the FSPP benefit is now dinner at Verandah. I'm quite disappointed, as I don't think Verandah has ever been very good for any meal.

The Four Seasons Preferred Partner offer is never a fixed meal anywhere... In Las Vegas it is suppose to be a $100.00 spa credit, but YMMV in getting that switched to a F&B credit.

Starting on October 31st to January 2013-The FS will undergo a remodel of rooms and public places.

Great!

That is a fast time frame given the size of the property.

Schedule is that the first set of rooms will start renovations in late October and the bulk of the rooms will be done for mid December. The remaining rooms are to be completed by mid January.

FS renovations are scheduled to complete December 17. I am booked on a stay from Dec 21 - 23 and have been guaranteed a renovated room by management.

The FSPP benefit used to include dinner for 2 at Charlie Palmer steak, which I rather enjoyed. However I am advised the FSPP benefit is now dinner at Verandah.

FHR says dinner, so im assuming this is what changed
virtuoso 2009>2012 say verandah

Starting on October 31st to January 2013-The FS will undergo a remodel of rooms and public places.

http://www.vegastripping.com/news/blog/4762/mandarin-oriental-new-website-golden-access-and-more/

A few years ago, we managed to get our hands on minutes from CityCenter board meetings wherein MGM top brass (Bobby Baldwin, Dan D'Errico and Jim Murren) discussed the difficulties they were having with Mandarin Oriental management... with primary sticking points being room rates and their insistence that Mandarin charge a resort fee. Eventually [MO] caved

i wonder if FS resort fees are decided by owner as well

in other vegas news >

~24% of trump vegas units become hilton timeshares :eek:
http://www.lvrj.com/business/trump-international-sells-300-condo-hotel-units-to-hilton-grand-vacations-168816716.html
1254 units
- 875 unsold (- ~300 hilton = ~575 unsold)
= 379 closed (opened mar 31 2008)

The Four Seasons Preferred Partner offer is never a fixed meal anywhere... In Las Vegas it is suppose to be a $100.00 spa credit, but YMMV in getting that switched to a F&B credit.

People may be getting confused with the Virtuoso amenities for FS LAS as they are continental breakfast daily and $85 credit towards dinner at Verandah. With FSPP, it is daily American breakfast and $100 Spa services credit.

Four Seasons has its own kitchen that prepares food only for Four Seasons Rooms. MGM Resorts International only collects money as the owner, Four Seasons has complete control over the property and has its own everything.

I'm a little confused. Does the FS have it's own room service in terms of making it within the hotel and by FS staff?

The Four Seasons Preferred Partner offer is never a fixed meal anywhere... In Las Vegas it is suppose to be a $100.00 spa credit, but YMMV in getting that switched to a F&B credit.

Correct, FSPP benefit is $100 spa credit. The Virtuoso offer, however, is dining credit valid at Verandah ONLY. It is not allowed to be used at Charlie Palmer. I asked, and they said it was because CP is a tenant and not owned/operated by the hotel.

to clarify my last post
for FS vegas >
FHR only publishes "dinner" even though contract usually specifies (consistent format for all properties)
virtuoso directories from 2009>2012 all say 'dinner at verandah' (quick search didnt find 2008 etc online)

http://www.mandarinoriental.com/lasvegas/accommodation/
MO has brought back ratecards on new site ^
whats the latest on upgrade potential ?
$525 strip view suite > $1250 dynasty suite
$1950 apex suite > ? emperor suite

I'm a little confused. Does the FS have it's own room service in terms of making it within the hotel and by FS staff?

Yes, Four Seasons Las Vegas prepares and delivers the food within the hotel by Four Seasons staff. I have ordered room service at Mandalay Bay and Four Seasons and the quality is totally different. Mandalay Bay would never keep two sets of ingredients around as well as room service linens.

FHR says dinner, so im assuming this is what changed
virtuoso 2009>2012 say verandah



http://www.vegastripping.com/news/blog/4762/mandarin-oriental-new-website-golden-access-and-more/



i wonder if FS resort fees are decided by owner as well

in other vegas news >

Yes and no on the resort fees. MGM Resorts International as the owner can "suggest" that resort fees be imposed, but Four Seasons is not under an obligation to impose anything, but Four Seasons needs to make the owner happy so it will do as told which also includes the adjustment of room rates. Also the first set of rooms to come back online will be around Nov 21 with a premium for the renovated rooms like Bellagio has done.

Yes, Four Seasons Las Vegas prepares and delivers the food within the hotel by Four Seasons staff. I have ordered room service at Mandalay Bay and Four Seasons and the quality is totally different. Mandalay Bay would never keep two sets of ingredients around as well as room service linens.

Well it does seem some of us has had another experience. For the record I haven't been in Vegas for over a year though so I might be outdated.

Correct me if I'm wrong but room service at the 4S comes from Mandalay Bay, no? I remember the food there to be mediocre.

Yes, and yes (at best).

vs

Four Seasons has its own kitchen that prepares food only for Four Seasons Rooms. MGM Resorts International only collects money as the owner, Four Seasons has complete control over the property and has its own everything.

also relevant >

not allowed to be used at Charlie Palmer. I asked, and they said it was because CP is a tenant and not owned/operated by the hotel.

Yes and no on the resort fees. MGM Resorts International as the owner can "suggest" that resort fees be imposed, but Four Seasons is not under an obligation to impose anything, but Four Seasons needs to make the owner happy so it will do as told which also includes the adjustment of room rates.
"not under an obligation" vs "will do as told" = contradictory

"Eventually [MO] caved"

i know FS contracts are better/best, but that was the language i was specifically referring to. (although MGM is clearly not the average owner.) FS currently has a number of resort fee properties. my hope was that it was NOT another reflection of downgrading luxury. which it is, if it is FS and not the owner.

and regardless of industry best contract, the idea that owner has no control is clearly no longer true, if it ever was. we now have legal precedent in US of contracts, including FS, being ended. the thing ive specifically wondered about in the past is things that disrupt guest experience like the modern family filming at FS. especially when property is not performing well, on a loan. so not just owner, but lender. who at some point can take over.

back to renovation >
first set of rooms to come back online will be around Nov 21 with a premium for the renovated rooms

We are here at FS Las Vegas now and I would stay somewhere else until the renovations are finished. we have had hammering, bandsawing and all sorts of renovation noises in the room directly above us, starting from 6.45am and finishing around 9.30pm.

So much for the tranquil peace from frenetic Las Vegas I was hoping for...

The rooms do need renovating as they are showing their age, but if I had known that the noise would be like this I would have stayed at the MO in a heartbeat.

Just thought I'd let anyone know who was considering where to stay. DH complained this morning about the noise as we requested a quiet room, due to travelling with two small children, but the front desk just said that they would look into it. Fingers crossed we have a better sleep tonight.

move to MO? talk to FS mgmt about room options before doing so?

We are here at FS Las Vegas now and I would stay somewhere else until the renovations are finished. we have had hammering, bandsawing and all sorts of renovation noises in the room directly above us, starting from 6.45am and finishing around 9.30pm.

So much for the tranquil peace from frenetic Las Vegas I was hoping for...

The rooms do need renovating as they are showing their age, but if I had known that the noise would be like this I would have stayed at the MO in a heartbeat.

Just thought I'd let anyone know who was considering where to stay. DH complained this morning about the noise as we requested a quiet room, due to travelling with two small children, but the front desk just said that they would look into it. Fingers crossed we have a better sleep tonight.


That's a pretty poor response. If I was the FS I'd move you to the MO and offer you a complimentary stay once the renovation is complete. It's important for them to maintain their reputation as being an "oasis" in Vegas and 14-15 hour construction periods won't do that.

Thanks guys for your responses. If the situation is the same tonight I will be less accommodating with our complaint.

We are here at FS Las Vegas now and I would stay somewhere else until the renovations are finished. we have had hammering, bandsawing and all sorts of renovation noises in the room directly above us, starting from 6.45am and finishing around 9.30pm.

Thanks for the heads up. I just canceled my reservation for an upcoming weekend. Not worth the risk when there are good alternatives.

Any update?

Hi

just an update as we have been travelling...

We finally received a response to our multiple (as in everyday +) complaints about the renoavtion noises on day 4 of our 5 day stay.

Management were apologetic and offered a different room to us, which was nice but rather too late in our stay to be of any benefit. We had tours planned for that day and DH had business meetings booked so we had no time to pack all our things and physically move.

Our stay was in a one bedroom strip view suite. (no FSPP/virtuoso upgrade given)

My reasoning was that we should not have to move rooms as this was meant, for the children and myself, to be a relaxing stay while DH had meetings and met suppliers at a conference.

We should not have been in this situation in the first place.

The manager assured us that the renovations were only wall-papering so the noise would be nonexistant or at worst, minimal.

We decided to stay in the room and did not arrive back until 9.30pm that night (he said that renovation times were between 7am-9pm).

At 10pm there were drills, saws, hammering still going on.

It was not the most relaxing holiday. At. All.

To say the trip was frustrating is an understatment. To have one complaint at any FS is enough, to have mulitple and be ignored is just not good enough anywhere.

We were offered one night at half price for our troubles.

My faith in the FS brand faltered.

We are now at the FS BW and it has been restored, thank goodness. The service here is impeccable so far.

As an aside; we had some meetings at the MO and it's where we would stay next time without a doubt, even though the pool is smaller, due to the streamlined service we received even as non-guests at the hotel.

Hope this helps someone.

It saddens me to write this, but thats how it was.

To end on a positive note as I am an optimist and happy, non-complaining traveller normally:

the room service attendants, chefs and spa services were superb.

C

Hi

just an update as we have been travelling...

We finally received a response to our multiple (as in everyday +) complaints about the renoavtion noises on day 4 of our 5 day stay.

Management were apologetic and offered a different room to us, which was nice but rather too late in our stay to be of any benefit. We had tours planned for that day and DH had business meetings booked so we had no time to pack all our things and physically move.

Our stay was in a one bedroom strip view suite. (no FSPP/virtuoso upgrade given)

My reasoning was that we should not have to move rooms as this was meant, for the children and myself, to be a relaxing stay while DH had meetings and met suppliers at a conference.

We should not have been in this situation in the first place.

The manager assured us that the renovations were only wall-papering so the noise would be nonexistant or at worst, minimal.

We decided to stay in the room and did not arrive back until 9.30pm that night (he said that renovation times were between 7am-9pm).

At 10pm there were drills, saws, hammering still going on.

It was not the most relaxing holiday. At. All.

To say the trip was frustrating is an understatment. To have one complaint at any FS is enough, to have mulitple and be ignored is just not good enough anywhere.

We were offered one night at half price for our troubles.

My faith in the FS brand faltered.

We are now at the FS BW and it has been restored, thank goodness. The service here is impeccable so far.

As an aside; we had some meetings at the MO and it's where we would stay next time without a doubt, even though the pool is smaller, due to the streamlined service we received even as non-guests at the hotel.

Hope this helps someone.

It saddens me to write this, but thats how it was.

To end on a positive note as I am an optimist and happy, non-complaining traveller normally:

the room service attendants, chefs and spa services were superb.

C

Hi Carls888. Sorry to hear of the problems at this hotel. I have stayed here previously but earlier last month booked at the MO for my next stay early next year.

If there was really work going on past 9pm, this warrants much more than just a half night comp.

May I suggest you write an old fashioned letter and send it to head office in Toronto, with a copy to the GM at the LV property? I had a similarly terrible experience at the St Regis in Puerto Rico. A professional letter to Starwood head office got me a [60]k spg points credit and a gift certificate for a future stay.

While what you really wanted was simply a nice vacation. I do not like to complain at high end properties...I am willing to pay full price but expect an experience commensurate with the price. Snce the hotel stuffed it up...this was clearly in their control.....the next one, or a meaningful portion of the next one at least....should be for FS's account.

That is simply appalling, and the antithesis of the service levels Four Seasons prides themselves on -- please do take NYBanker's advice and send a letter (at the least, a "letter-like" email) to the appropriate individuals.

Mark Hellrung is the GM at FSLV; his email is mark.hellrung@fourseasons.com
Craig Reid is the President of Hotel Ops - Americas; his email is craig.reid@fourseasons.com

I've had good experiences emailing Craig before, and am confident this will be sorted to your satisfaction.

As a reminder I will be there this coming weekend on a 2-night stay. If anyone has special requests or wants something special reviewed, please let me know.

As usual, no proactive communication from the hotel prior to arrival. I reached out via my FSPP/Virtuoso agent requesting an upgrade to a suite (as this property has given me a 6-category upgrade in the past). So far, the response has been, [paraphrased] "We can guarantee a renovated room, and will try to give you at least a strip view, but since several floors are under renovation we cannot guarantee any upgrades at this time."

I emailed concierge this morning to help with some reservations and so far no response.

As a reminder I will be there this coming weekend on a 2-night stay. If anyone has special requests or wants something special reviewed, please let me know.


If you can, please verify as previously discussed if the room service curently originates from the 4S itself or from Mandalay Bay.

We were there a few weeks ago. Booked a premier strip view room. We did not get an upgrade... but we were the first ones to stay in our renovated room on the top floor. Everything was really nice. We will be back for sure.

We were there a few weeks ago. Booked a premier strip view room. We did not get an upgrade... but we were the first ones to stay in our renovated room on the top floor. Everything was really nice. We will be back for sure.

Are the bathrooms also renovated?

Are the bathrooms also renovated?

Bathroom updates -

"Backlit mirrors increase ambient and task lighting in all bathrooms while suite bathrooms feature integrated television screens

Custom designed faucet sets and bath hardware and the use of frameless glass shower enclosures in polished chrome create a sleek look throughout the bath

Classic marble flooring and vanity tops reflect timeless sophistication".

To answer a question that has been asked several times recently: I consulted with the Maitre D at Verandah and confirmed that the FS Room Service is served out of the Verandah kitchen, not the Mandalay Bay room service kitchen.

Also of great importance is the presence of the very "Non Four Seasons-esque" $25 resort fee. I am writing a letter to the GM about this and request more of you do the same.

Just finished a 2 night stay with a total party size of 6 adults + 2 kids split into 3 rooms. I will keep this review as succinct as possible since everyone already knows most of the strengths of the property.

Despite the valet area being very busy when we arrived, a seemingly unending army of staff materialized from nowhere to greet us and help with bags. Valet also escorted us to the front desk and introduced us by name. Definitely 5-star.

Front desk was as pleasant as ever, but I continue to be baffled by the fact that I have to fill out my address every time I check in at every Four Seasons property worldwide despite the fact they already have my computerized reservation (and presumably a customer database?). Great personal touch: a staff member rolled out a radio flyer wagon full of plush animals and let the kids choose one each.

I was informed my entire party received a 1-category upgrade from Deluxe to Strip View. Considering the regular 3-6 category upgrades I've received in the past, I was a bit disappointed. However, we were informed that at least 2 of the 5 floors were still under renovation so inventory was limited.

Offered a paid upgrade right out of the gate to Presidential Suite for +$900 per night. I really didn't want to spend that much money for a Vegas room, but I figured it would be a great experience in one of the newest and best suites in the city...Tried negotiating, but was told it was a firm price.

There are a total of 5 Presidential Suites, which are advertised as the best suites the hotel has to offer. Not sure if there are any secret suites for whales. We had #37336. Though it's at the end of a very long hallway, the layout of the suite is such that you have almost complete privacy. One side of the suite is adjacent to the emergency stairwell and the other side is adjacent to an optional connecting 2nd bedroom that is presumably blocked unless the hotel is at full occupancy.

The renovation was quite comprehensive, but I was a bit disappointed that the bathrooms did not receive new floors or countertops. I think the hotel's reference to "timeless sophistication" just means they didn't want to spend the extra $5,000 - $10,000 per room. Carpet, drapes, lighting, decorative touches, hardware, paint & wallpaper, and furniture all appear updated. Some, but not all common areas have been updated. Hard surface flooring such as marble/granite appear untouched, but are in remarkable condition for their age. The color palette is very pleasing and represents the energy and vibrance of Las Vegas. Chocolate is the base color, with accents of gold, silver, and lime green. Might sound strange but it works. My wife commented that it looks like every other modern Vegas hotel now, but I don't necessarily see that as a bad thing.

The Presidential Suite was 2,200 square feet but had a least a few hundred square feet of dead space that seemed wasted. Additionally, the lighting options in the suite were very poor. Despite the huge amount of space in the suite, it was missing the "wow" factor one might find in other top suites (such as the Duplex Suite we had at the Pen BKK). On the plus side, the view was absolutely stunning - especially at night. You have an incredible 180-degree panorama from the airport to east, strip to the north, and red rock to the west.

We saw our family's Strip View rooms as well. At 550 sq feet they are among the largest non-suite hotel rooms in the city. However, after coming from the Presidential Suite they seemed tiny and cramped. I strongly recommend a Strip View Studio room as the best combination of space and value.

All rooms/suites have separate tub and shower, but only the Presidential Suites have double vanities. All rooms also now have Keurig K-Cup machines. The Presidential Suite had a Nespresso machine in addition to the Keurig.

I have been very critical of the Verandah in years past, but they really hit it out of the ballpark this trip. The breakfast was a decided step up in quality, and the servers were better than ever. Our group of 8 people were assigned 2 servers and they went out of their way to accommodate us - and especially our kids. We had lunch there one day as well and were once again very impressed with the quality and flavor of the food.

The lobby was undergoing a mild facelift, and a brand new bar was being installed opposite the front desk.

Despite the fact that this is one of the largest Four Seasons in the chain (over 400 rooms), the feel is tremendously residential and very personal - especially in contrast to some of the other mega resorts that somehow managed to bribe their way to 5-stars. Our housekeeper addressed us by name (first time that's ever happened outside of a cruise ship). No other staff members remembered our names, but you could tell they recognized us and made a point to greet us.

I never saw a member of management out and about, but it could have been that most of them were on vacation for Christmas.

Overall a very pleasant stay...Four Seasons really solidified its position as #1 in Vegas for me.

Bathroom updates -

"Backlit mirrors increase ambient and task lighting in all bathrooms while suite bathrooms feature integrated television screens

Custom designed faucet sets and bath hardware and the use of frameless glass shower enclosures in polished chrome create a sleek look throughout the bath

Classic marble flooring and vanity tops reflect timeless sophistication".

To be more specific...NO, not renovated except for new mirrors and fixtures. Same floor/counter and layout. Still only 1 sink in all except Presidential Suites.

Great review trojanman! It would seem that the 4S can come back strong as soon as the renovations are done. And thanks for putting the room service question to rest.

When I stayed at FS earlier this year, they said they would not touch the bathrooms as the cost would be prohibitive - too much marble to break up and replace. I saw the designs for the new rooms/suites - OK, but nothing too special. I still prefer MO Vegas as its accommodation is better, there is more intimacy throughout the hotel because of the smaller public areas, and the restaurant choice is considerably better as they also offer fine dining at Pierre Gagnaire. Great pool area, too.

Also worth noting, it looks like the hotel abandoned its former Presidential Suites (rooms ending 001), which used to be 3,400 square feet and featured many special touches such as a piano, surround sound media center, and a much more impressive bathroom. These suites were typically reserved for whales gambling a minimum of $50K per hour, or for patrons willing to shell out $5K per night (rack rate).

During the renovation process it appears they converted their old "180 degree strip view" suites (rooms ending 336) to be the new Presidential suites. That could explain why it didn't appear very "Presidential".

At the request of the front desk agent, I compiled a very detailed review of my Presidential Suite and submitted it to management. Interesting that they have yet to address any of the "unacceptable" issues I brought to their attention, but they did address the following suggestions, noting they are already in the works:


Increased Dining Room & Foyer Lighting (Pres. Suite)
Updated CFL bulbs that don't take as long to warm up (presumably all rooms)
Surround Sound System (Pres. Suite)
Etro Italian toiletries in the same size for all room categories
Pre-Arrival Email (unfortunately sounds like auto generated)
System-wide guest profile

Also worth noting, it looks like the hotel abandoned its former Presidential Suites (rooms ending 001), which used to be 3,400 square feet and featured many special touches such as a piano, surround sound media center, and a much more impressive bathroom. These suites were typically reserved for whales gambling a minimum of $50K per hour, or for patrons willing to shell out $5K per night (rack rate).

During the renovation process it appears they converted their old "180 degree strip view" suites (rooms ending 336) to be the new Presidential suites. That could explain why it didn't appear very "Presidential".

Apparently, they moved the Presidentials because their views are now blocked by other buildings and they wanted full-on Strip views for their most prestigious suites, which makes sense. What they lost, I think, is the pizazz of the previous Presidentials. Sometimes, it seems as though Four Seasons are going back to their beige and boring days.

At the request of the front desk agent, I compiled a very detailed review of my Presidential Suite and submitted it to management. Interesting that they have yet to address any of the "unacceptable" issues I brought to their attention, but they did address the following suggestions, noting they are already in the works:


Increased Dining Room & Foyer Lighting (Pres. Suite)
Updated CFL bulbs that don't take as long to warm up (presumably all rooms)
Surround Sound System (Pres. Suite)
Etro Italian toiletries in the same size for all room categories
Pre-Arrival Email (unfortunately sounds like auto generated)
System-wide guest profile


I have asked about this many times. One FS hotel told me that they were not allowed to share guest information due to the Data Protection Act! Crazy if this is true!

I have asked about this many times. One FS hotel told me that they were not allowed to share guest information due to the Data Protection Act! Crazy if this is true!

Could this be a possibility due to different ownership? Still with a shared operating company you would think this wouldn't be an issue.

Could this be a possibility due to different ownership? Still with a shared operating company you would think this wouldn't be an issue.

This is such a good management company that the competition is (almost) between other Four Seasons hotels.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/luxury-hotels/1064204-how-does-one-set-up-profile-four-seasons.html >

guest.historian at fourseasons.com
your service preferences may be made available to other Four Seasons properties through the Four Seasons guest history database.

guest information in our Guest Reservation System ("GUESTres...We may also store certain information regarding your service preferences...number of stays you have had at properties managed by Four Seasons and the number of nights of each stay. This information may be available to another Four Seasons property when you make a reservation at that property

When you log-in to complete or modify a Booking Profile, Guest Service Profile

If you are invited, whether through the "By Invitation" promotion or otherwise, and elect to create a Guest Profile, on our web site

When you provide information, including revised information to your Guest Profile, we may use the information you provide to update other databases maintained by us.

How do I access my Personal Information?
...You may make a request to the CIS Leader at the Hotel
...contacting our Corporate Guest Historian
http://www.fourseasons.com/privacy/

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/luxury-hotels/1064204-how-does-one-set-up-profile-four-seasons.html >

So you have to give them permission to access your preferences? This is not true with Aman, and that's how I prefer it. Top hotel groups should be proactive not reactive surely? I guess Four Seasons are more into being politically correct than Aman!

you can email "guest.historian at fourseasons.com"
and talk to "CIS Leader at the Hotel"
re "GUESTres"

very loose wording >
"may be made available"
"may also store"
"may be available"
"may use"

you can email "guest.historian at fourseasons.com"
and talk to "CIS Leader at the Hotel"
re "GUESTres"

SAD!!!!

some people here have (always had with no interruptions) profiles
the issue is the details

IIRC the reports here are all regarding responses from various FS employees at various levels, in response to fairly general unspecific questions. some unspecific FS press quotes have also been posted.

some people here have (always had with no interruptions) profiles
the issue is the details

IIRC the reports here are all regarding responses from various FS employees at various levels, in response to fairly general unspecific questions. some unspecific FS press quotes have also been posted.

I asked someone with a pretty authoritative position this morning; A FS can look-up a guests' history and request a "profile" to be shared from the other FS.

I asked someone with a pretty authoritative position this morning; A FS can look-up a guests' history and request a "profile" to be shared from the other FS.

there are literally dozens of posts from dozens of people (ok maybe just a dozen plus?) with answers all over the place, plus the press quotes on top of that

and even that is unspecific >
"CAN look up" and "request"
does history mean which FS properties visited? if so suggesting they have to contact each individually?
there is a central system, the exact details (especially who gets what) besides what i quoted are just not known

Hi, are the renovations at the FS completed?

Stayed at MO last year and had a very nice experience but thinking of returning to the FS this year if the make over is complete.

Thanks

According to yesterday's press release (http://press.fourseasons.com/lasvegas/hotel-news/four-seasons-hotel-las-vegas-tops-us-news-world-report-s-2013-list-of-the-best-hotels-in-nevada/), the room renovations are completed. Lobby bar and other outdoor touches are to be finished "this spring".

They were starting the bar right in the middle of my last stay on December 22. I can't imagine a bar takes too long to complete...would expect that to open any time now.

Thanks for the link to the article, we're travelling in June which is summer I would imagine rather than spring.

We just got back from a week in Vegas where we stayed at both properties and Four Seasons wins hands down in every category except location. There's just a very different vibe between the two properties. Four Seasons focus is on service and the guest whereas Mandarin's focus is on its image. They just seem to be trying way too hard and a little "too cool for school". Not our cup of tea but hey, to each their own.

That being said, the new rooms at FS are absolutely terrific and we look forward to staying again.

I'm at Encore right now. While the room itself is quite good, I still prefer the MO and FS (e.g., can't imagine waiting 15 minutes to get to a check in clerk at those two). As I've posted before, which of the two depends on the nature of that trip.