Air New Zealand Air Points - Babies/very young children in lounges

Would somebody please help me understand why?
I am so sick of having my working time trashed by babies/young kids being babies/young kids. We never brought our kids near a lounge until they were of an age that they understood the need for their best ever, quietest, most respectful behavior.
Is it just me?

This post is quite offensive to be honest. What are you going to do if there is a baby next to you on a long haul flight even if you are in First Class? Ask the bady to shut up or kick them out to Economy?

Talking about selfish people I have seen plenty in Asia but I never would expect the same in this part of the world, especially not New Zealand.

Perhaps there should be either no children under say 7 or there should be a children / babies area that is soundproofed from the main lounge, although only likely to be practical in places like AKL, WLG, etc..

This post is quite offensive to be honest. What are you going to do if there is a baby next to you on a long haul flight even if you are in First Class? Ask the bady to shut up or kick them out to Economy?

Talking about selfish people I have seen plenty in Asia but I never would expect the same in this part of the world, especially not New Zealand.

I agree with the OP.
Business lounges should be a quiet area for working or relaxing. Talk about selfish people who think thier kids can run riot destroying the travel experience of others.....
As for the F class comment some airlines (such as MH) do not allow babies or children in F ^

I don't mean to be offensive. There just seem to be more and more young kids around these days. And fewer parents actually seeming to care if they are disturbing the peace of others or even trying.
There are child-friendly areas in the lounges, but lots of parents just seem to ignore them and don't even seem to try to moderate the noise levels.
I guess the difference is that neither the parents nor the other passengers have any choice if they're stuck on a metal tube. But there's are loads of other options on the ground.
I guess everybody's different. Whether it was an airline lounge or not, if my child was screaming/crying/making noise in an enclosed space, around people,e especially a space that people traditionally come to for peace/quiet/work/respite I would take the child out until it had calmed down.

And fewer parents actually seeming to care if they are disturbing the peace of others or even trying.

This is the issue more than anything, people not caring how what they do affects others, and it's not limited to children either, people speaking loudly on cellphones etc.

And of course, a lot of these people will be the DYKWIA types if they were to be confronted by staff on their parenting/excessive volume.

No public place should be an excuse for poorly behaving child and adults.
However there should not be a ban on children and if parents do not ensure that their children are well behaved it should be up to the staff, after being informed by lounge patrons if necessary, to evict said disturbers of the peace.
As for crying babies, well it happens and sometimes even with the best of efforts it takes time to settle a baby down (this is from a parent of a 10 month old). When this occurs my focus is on the baby but I do look for a place where the disturbance can be minimised, but what can you do go to the quiet place with fewer people and break their peace, stay in place and try to settle the baby down as fast as possible, head to the bathrooms where the sound can be amplified?

The lounge is not just for business but for all people eligible to gain entry.

I don't mean to be offensive. There just seem to be more and more young kids around these days. And fewer parents actually seeming to care if they are disturbing the peace of others or even trying.
There are child-friendly areas in the lounges, but lots of parents just seem to ignore them and don't even seem to try to moderate the noise levels.
I guess the difference is that neither the parents nor the other passengers have any choice if they're stuck on a metal tube. But there's are loads of other options on the ground.
I guess everybody's different. Whether it was an airline lounge or not, if my child was screaming/crying/making noise in an enclosed space, around people,e especially a space that people traditionally come to for peace/quiet/work/respite I would take the child out until it had calmed down.

Ok. I accept what you say here. My apologies. My point was it wouldn't help anyone to put more pressure on some already stressful parents. But I do take your point that parents should be at least doing something to control their kids.

These sorts of discussions are usually coincide with the start or end of school holidays. It seems particularly noticable around these times.
I regularly fly Y class for work from HKG to AKL and have been surrounded by 8 crying babies at times. Just have to put the headphones on and suck it up.

Certainly I have often seen parents being disrespectful of others' space and quiet in the lounge, just as I have often seen adults do the same--talking loudly on cell phones, spreading bags out over four extra seats in a full lounge, holding raucous (and at a guess tipsy) conversations with one another etc. etc. I have also tried to use the no-cellphone area in AKL domestic only to be bombarded with a rugby game on a large screen at high volume.

I'm about to be a parent. I've earned my way to *G the same way anyone else has--or maybe the harder way, since you don't get status points on credit cards in Australia. I am going to find it easier, I'm sure, to manage my baby in a lounge, with comfortable seating where I don't have to watch my bag like a hawk every second, reasonable access to the toilets, and access to (admittedly dubious quality of late) food than I would outside the lounge. Certainly I'm planning to do my level best to keep my kid quiet, not least of all because *I* don't want to listen to it. I also plan (once the kid is old enough) to use the play areas in the lounge rather than playing in the cell phone free zone. I don't think, though, that I should be forced to use other, more-difficult-for-me options when a) the lounge is hardly quiet now, b) I will be doing my level best to NOT disturb other users, just as I do now and c) I have the right to be there.

Of course, I'm sure this looks like I'm sounding off just because I am about to have a child, but for a number of years I have preferred to sit next to a well-behaved child than an ill-behaved adult in the lounge or on a plane--and there are plenty of both around.

Whilst I'm not at the age of having a family yet, I have never had a problem with kids in the lounge. Sure some of them aren't perfect, but that's kids being kids. I'm more frequently distracted by onbnoxious adults, than children.

How does this relate to NZ Airpoints? It's a generic discussion about parenting. Shouldn't it be moved to OMNI?

Ok. I accept what you say here. My apologies. My point was it wouldn't help anyone to put more pressure on some already stressful parents. But I do take your point that parents should be at least doing something to control their kids.

They should be doing more than something. They should be ensuring their kids don't disturb others. And if they can't manage that, they should leave the lounge.

How does this relate to NZ Airpoints? It's a generic discussion about parenting. Shouldn't it be moved to OMNI?

The OP specifies the Koru lounge, so no.

As a father of two young kids, traveling with them is the worst nightmare ever, and it is the last thing I want to do... But that shouldn't disqualify me from my hard earned benefit as a frequent flyer...

And trust me, it takes a lot of effort and time to settle down a terrible two...

The OP specifies the Koru lounge, so no.

I'm not sure which thread you're reading but this one has no mention of Koru lounges by anyone (except you), let alone the OP. It doesn't belong in the NZ Airpoints forum,

Certainly I have often seen parents being disrespectful of others' space and quiet in the lounge, just as I have often seen adults do the same--talking loudly on cell phones, spreading bags out over four extra seats in a full lounge, holding raucous (and at a guess tipsy) conversations with one another etc. etc....

I'm impressed. While by no means a record, it's a sterling effort for this comment to appear in the tenth post on a thread about children in lounges. Well done!

I'm not sure which thread you're reading but this one has no mention of Koru lounges by anyone (except you), let alone the OP. It doesn't belong in the NZ Airpoints forum,

I think it certainly does belong on this forum.

Flygirlnz - no you are not alone in your frustration, but as soon as I read your comments I knew you were opening (or re-opening) a can of worms.

I like to think lounges are places for relaxation before flights - whether for business or leisure travellers. Loud users of cellphones and children who are not controlled by parents detract from the experience we pay for.

But as far as children are concerned, it's very easy to tell when parents try their best to control their children. Unfortunately, increasing numbers of parents seem to think their children's antisocial behaviour is acceptable.

I think it certainly does belong on this forum.

Flygirlnz - no you are not alone in your frustration, but as soon as I read your comments I knew you were opening (or re-opening) a can of worms.

I like to think lounges are places for relaxation before flights - whether for business or leisure travellers. Loud users of cellphones and children who are not controlled by parents detract from the experience we pay for.

But as far as children are concerned, it's very easy to tell when parents try their best to control their children. Unfortunately, increasing numbers of parents seem to think their children's antisocial behaviour is acceptable.

Congrats on completely omitting any mention of Air NZ or Airpoints.

Congrats on completely omitting any mention of Air NZ or Airpoints.

Oh dear! This is the NZ forum and most of us are NZ Airpoints members and, in many cases, Koru members. Do we have to mention this every time we post?

But, if you insist, I have been an NZ airpoints member for more years than I wish to remember, plus Koru for a number of years. Every post I make on this forum refers to NZ. What is your problem, Wan1dap???

Oh dear! This is the NZ forum and most of us are NZ Airpoints members and, in many cases, Koru members. Do we have to mention this every time we post?

But, if you insist, I have been an NZ airpoints member for more years than I wish to remember, plus Koru for a number of years. Every post I make on this forum refers to NZ. What is your problem, Wan1dap???

+1
It is obvious to everybody except one on this forum what was being referred to....

I'm not sure which thread you're reading but this one has no mention of Koru lounges by anyone (except you), let alone the OP. It doesn't belong in the NZ Airpoints forum,

I must've imagined that haha. Fair enough.

For the record, my posts are Koru lounge-related. Perhaps other participants of this thread might like to indicate whether they're Koru lounge-specific or not.

We never brought our kids near a lounge until they were of an age that they understood the need for their best ever, quietest, most respectful behavior. Very noble.

This post is quite offensive to be honest. What are you going to do if there is a baby next to you on a long haul flight even if you are in First Class? Ask the bady to shut up or kick them out to Economy?

Lounges are quiet work and relaxation environments. Airports often provide childrens' play areas which are not. Children who cannot (either through age or because they are badly behaved) maintain that quiet shouldn't be in a lounge, just as adults who are inappropriately dressed or loud and drunk shouldn't either.

This is rather different to the classes of service on an aircraft.

Neil

My comments apply to the Koru lounges, which not only are not only not EVER partiuclarly quiet IME, but actually include children's play areas. As far as I am aware there are not, in fact, children's play spaces OUTSIDE lounges at MEL, my home airport. I have also been in the EK lounge, which is a considerably different space and which I might think twice about taking a baby into, and the QF lounge, which is a zoo and I would have no problem taking a kid into.

It isn't just you. A lounge is, or should be, a place where alcohol is served. It's a bar. No child under the age of 18 should be admitted under any circumstance. Yes, I'm talking about YOU, American Airlines in Miami. What's the matter with people? How does this fly under the legal radar? It seems blatantly illegal on the face of it.

Whether or not parents are trying to do "their best" is not relevant. The fact that they're in a place with a baby where alcohol is served tells me what I need to know about "their best" anyway. Of course, I would rather they do their best than just give up, but a parent doing "their best" is usually moments away from the next stage, which is "give up and let them run wild or give up and let them scream." We all know that "I'm doing my best" is code for "I'm not doing so well."




Would somebody please help me understand why?
I am so sick of having my working time trashed by babies/young kids being babies/young kids. We never brought our kids near a lounge until they were of an age that they understood the need for their best ever, quietest, most respectful behavior.
Is it just me?

Lounges are quiet work and relaxation environments. Airports often provide childrens' play areas which are not. Children who cannot (either through age or because they are badly behaved) maintain that quiet shouldn't be in a lounge, just as adults who are inappropriately dressed or loud and drunk shouldn't either.


No doubt opening another can of worms in an already can opening thread apparently not specific another to AirNZ/Airpoints (oh look, there we go, I'm golden!)

What dress would you consider inappropriate?

For example, I almost universally travel in shorts, t-shirt or polo, and my engineering jandals. Is that inappropriate?

Like NZ*Trout I travel in shorts and a t-shirt and thongs frequently. I figure if Ive paid $12K for the flight I can dress how I like.

Im taking my 6 yr old to London in BP with NZ in a couple of months. He will be in the lounge and in the Business cabin and I fully expect him to be perfectly behaved as he always has been when traveling. Equally though I wouldn't take my 14 month old into the lounge unless she was asleep and if she woke up and was irritable I would take her for a walk.

It isn't about kids - its about considerate behaviour and equally applies to adults and kids.

No doubt opening another can of worms in an already can opening thread apparently not specific another to AirNZ/Airpoints (oh look, there we go, I'm golden!)

's OK, I'm from the UK anyway (I tend to stumble on threads like these because I often browse FT using the "new posts" option rather than via the individual forums).

What dress would you consider inappropriate?

I'm not all that fussy, but I'd suggest that mucky work clothes were one example. The main reason I gave that reference (reading my post again I wasn't all that clear) was because many UK lounges do have dress codes, though normally not *that* formal. Don't know about NZ.

For example, I almost universally travel in shorts, t-shirt or polo, and my engineering jandals. Is that inappropriate?

So long as you look reasonably presentable I guess not an issue (but see above).

Neil

It isn't about kids - its about considerate behaviour and equally applies to adults and kids.

Exactly :)

Neil

Perhaps there should be either no children under say 7 or there should be a children / babies area that is soundproofed from the main lounge, although only likely to be practical in places like AKL, WLG, etc..

Perhaps NZ should take a cue from the former Contiental President's clubs (now part of the United Clubs) which feature a separate family room (with a see through glass door) that is unlocked upon request by lounge staff provided you're having small children along for the ride. As a parent of a two year old 50k+ elite flyer, it has come in handy quite a bit when seeking privacy for myself and safety for my little one (the door handle is too high for them to reach at that age) while featuring a nice play area and a oftentimes even a view. :cool:

As for the comments on adults having the potential to behave as badly as children in the air and on the ground, I couldn't agree more. As for children in First or Business, my child has always enjoyed it, unfortunately she doesn't fully understand everything I say yet, but neither would some adults, say if they have a disability. I think as long as I can get a ticket for a given class of service, I should be entitled to fly there, whether I have children or a spasm or something else that someone may deem to be less than pleasant. :rolleyes:

It isn't just you. A lounge is, or should be, a place where alcohol is served. It's a bar. No child under the age of 18 should be admitted under any circumstance. Yes, I'm talking about YOU, American Airlines in Miami. What's the matter with people? How does this fly under the legal radar? It seems blatantly illegal on the face of it.
Highly subjective given the locals and licensing requirements. For instance in NZ it is not a problem at all - children can be in establishments serving alcohol, they just can't approach the bar.

It isn't about kids - its about considerate behaviour and equally applies to adults and kids.
Agreed.

This thread makes me laugh.

My kids are 8 and 10 and have been Gold or Gold Elite throughout.

Usually when we board there are disapproving looks from neighbours worried about screaming kids tearing around the cabin.

My kids wedge themselves inside the airbagged-belt the approved Air NZ way, and immediately start the IFE. By this point the neighbours should be recognising that these passengers are more frequent Air NZ premium passengers than they are.

My kids are then quiet and still throughout the flight, pausing only to sneak over to me sometimes to complain about the din from obese, snoring businessmen. I rarely complete a flight without the cabin crew - and sometimes passengers - congratulating me on the behaviour of my children.

We pay for my kids' tickets, unlike many of the snoring lard-buckets who disturb their sleep.

I get annoyed at bad parents who don't control their kids. But I'm very happy taking my own kids in premium cabins.

I should add that I've only ever had one bad flight with my kids, from Papeete to Bora Bora when my son was about 1.5 years old. The secret is preparation. When my kids were tiny there was food and drink for them to consume when their ears caused trouble, and it worked a treat. When they were too young for the IFE - which is very young, as there is Mickey Mouse Clubhouse on every flight - they had their own Archos hard-disc players loaded with Teletubbies and the like.

Small kids are not a problem if you prepare for every contingency.

I think it certainly does belong on this forum.

Flygirlnz - no you are not alone in your frustration, but as soon as I read your comments I knew you were opening (or re-opening) a can of worms.

I like to think lounges are places for relaxation before flights - whether for business or leisure travellers. Loud users of cellphones and children who are not controlled by parents detract from the experience we pay for.

But as far as children are concerned, it's very easy to tell when parents try their best to control their children. Unfortunately, increasing numbers of parents seem to think their children's antisocial behaviour is acceptable.

+1

Wow, this has to one of my favorite subjects of FT - it's been a while since i've seen this one at any of the forums I read...!! It's the one topic ALWAYS sure to see people go off the deep end.

IMHO:

I agree with the OP. I respect the right of other 'elites' to take in noisy children noisy guests et al. When they (be they children or badly behaved adults) create nuisance for others it reflects badly on the person taking them in - bottom line everyone should show courtesy for others in the lounge (or cabin) and take responsibility accordingly - especially if you are giving the nuisance causer access.

Whilst not a popular view, i'm happy to admit i'd prefer no children in lounges, and certainly not in business or first class. That said...... i'd also be happy to pay a premium for that and if there was an airline with a 'no children / babies' policy they'd get all of my business.

To those people who have well behaved kids in lounges and cabins - thank you. I appreciate not all kids are creators of the problems we read about here. But personally, i'd still rather travel in a cabin without minors.

Why however this debate instigates sometimes nasty and personal attacks amongst FTers is beyond me. :(

As a father of two young kids, traveling with them is the worst nightmare ever, and it is the last thing I want to do... But that shouldn't disqualify me from my hard earned benefit as a frequent flyer...

And trust me, it takes a lot of effort and time to settle down a terrible two...

For Business/First Class passengers airlines should provide a nanny to sit with children in economy.

Why however this debate instigates sometimes nasty and personal attacks amongst FTers is beyond me.

Perhaps the odd post such as this? :rolleyes:
For Business/First Class passengers airlines should provide a nanny to sit with children in economy.
Whilst living in Thailand, flying TG in Biz BKK-HKT for a weekend away I arranged for self, MrsTK, Master TK1, Master TK2 and the Maid to fly in biz - kept things simple. As a 3 class seating config, as TG*G we were allocated the F seats in the nose of the 744. Quite a few interesting looks from those in regular Biz.....

For Business/First Class passengers airlines should provide a nanny to sit with children in economy.

Not if as a non-user I would have to pay for it (even indirectly), they shouldn't.

For Business/First Class passengers airlines should provide a nanny to sit with children in economy.

I'd rather children were only taken on flights, in any class, if they can behave properly.

Most children I see on flights can. But if a child hates flying or is easily bored, why not make other arrangements?

Neil

Most children I see on flights can. But if a child hates flying or is easily bored, why not make other arrangements?

It's not always possible, especially for a country like NZ. NZ is an island nation a long way from anywhere else with lots of people living as ex pats in other countries--partly due to the economy. Last year 1/80 New Zealanders moved to Australia, for example. The only way to go between the countries is to fly. If families want to see each other, and I don't think this is unreasonable, it is not always going to be possible for only non-child-having parties to travel.

Not only that, but, well, kids have to learn that boredom and doing things that aren't that awesome are part of life. Is a plane the place to start this lesson? Absolutely not! Planes might, however, be part of the lesson, particularly once it has been learned in other spaces and for shorter durations. Having said all that, I will sit in the seat in front of my kid while his dad sits next to him if that is what it takes to stop him kicking the seat of someone who did not bring him on the plane, and he will certainly be told in no uncertain terms that it isn't acceptable behaviour...maybe that makes me the wrong kind of parent to be commenting.

Ok. I accept what you say here. My apologies. My point was it wouldn't help anyone to put more pressure on some already stressful parents. But I do take your point that parents should be at least doing something to control their kids.

Thanks, Xiaotung. I think this was my point (about parents controlling kids).
It does seem to have got worse in recent years - this sense of entitlement that parents with young children seem to have. I agree that it can be really stressful traveling with kids, but in my experience, taking them into a place where there are higher expectations around behavior, noise levels etc, just ratchets up the stress levels for all, including the people around them. Like I said, we just didn't take our kids into lounges until they were of an age that they were able to behave appropriately. And if they did start to play up once they were older, we'd take them straight out. Still do, with our stroppy 13 year old if she gets remotely whiny. Seems to happen at least once a trip that one of us is parked outside in the terminal for at least a period of time, but nobody wants to listen to someone else's whiny teenager. And she needs to learn to respect the places and people around her.

I know there are strong opinions on this and i can see why. I was 10 before I was ever taken into a lounge. However, I don't think kids should be banned from lounges or premium cabins. Lots of lounges cater well for children, some more than others. There is a kids room in the NZ AKL international lounge with an X-box and toys. I am a frequent user of this lounge, when i travel with kids I make sure I sit in the back section next to the kids room (I also feel the back section is more family friendly). When I don't travel with kids I sit in the front where it is usually quieter.

Flying is an increasing part of life, you will come across children at times but I don't think you should strip people of their benefits for travelling with children, especially since a lot of those people probably travel more than anyone else. Also, I have been on flights recently where the adults have been far more disturbing than what any child could be.

No problem with kids in lounges as long as the parents do not allow them to think of the place as home and run riot - same goes for adults, I do not want to hear your phone calls, so stop shouting.
What annoys me most is when some of our little darlings (and some big ones as well) load up their plates with food, take one bite and walk away and leave - that is wasteful and just a tad annoying especially when I go the the food and find , nothing.
I would like NZ to start charging for any guests over 5 and under 12, say $10 per head. NZ quite happily reduced guest numbers into lounge for Koru members but let the kids in for free.

The bottom line is - IMO - that parents need to take greater responsibility for their kids in the lounges. It is not a crèche, and they should not expect either lounge staff or other patrons to look after their children.


I still strongly support children entering the lounges.

Perhaps NZ should take a cue from the former Contiental President's clubs (now part of the United Clubs) which feature a separate family room NZ already has this at LAX, MEL, and AKL.

NZ already has this at LAX, MEL, and AKL.
And SYD