Southwest Rapid Rewards - Hawaii and Mexico... WHEN?!!

I keep hearing about these new destinations that SWA will be flying but it wont be 2012 apparently and the schedule runs out to March 2013 already. When will these routes be added? We have the companion pass and would like to Jump at both these destinations before it expires in 12-31-2013.

whats the over/under on that date for these 2 destinations?

Among other things, WN has to take delivery of enough 738's to serve Hawaii and get approval for ETOPS for those aircraft. It takes time...be patient.

For competitive reasons, it's unlikely that WN is going to give us an exact date right now. Hopefully, it will be in late 2013, but who knows? I, too, want WN to start service ASAP.

I keep hearing about these new destinations that SWA will be flying but it wont be 2012 apparently and the schedule runs out to March 2013 already. When will these routes be added? We have the companion pass and would like to Jump at both these destinations before it expires in 12-31-2013.

whats the over/under on that date for these 2 destinations?

More importantly, what's the over under that a CP will not be valid for Hawaii and ""foreign" travel?

Southwest is waiting for the Flight Attendants to approve part of their contract regarding "Over water and near International" flights. Until the FA approve on it, Southwest won't be going anywhere to either of the location themselves.

The pilots have already approved this. Only the FAs group is left as the deciding factor.

More importantly, what's the over under that a CP will not be valid for Hawaii and ""foreign" travel?

I hope not, but I can see there being a "surcharge" or something like that for using the CP at these destinations or an increase in qualification for the CP. I guess I should stop giving them ideas.

I hope not, but I can see there being a "surcharge" or something like that for using the CP at these destinations or an increase in qualification for the CP. I guess I should stop giving them ideas.

When SW had an agreement with ATA, it was my memories said it required TWO Rapid Rewards ticket for a round trip to Hawaii wasn't it? I could be wrong.

More importantly, what's the over under that a CP will not be valid for Hawaii and ""foreign" travel?

I have long assumed that the CP will only be good for the Lower 48.

OP: Stop believing the pontificating posts proclaiming WN will serve Hawaii from a certain "regular" here that always reposts Airliners.net rumors.

I'm confident they'll serve Hawaii at some point. My guess will be late 2013 or early 2014 before we see them in the islands. I wouldn't be surprised to see the companion pass restricted from Hawaii/Intl as well.

When SW had an agreement with ATA, it was my memories said it required TWO Rapid Rewards ticket for a round trip to Hawaii wasn't it? I could be wrong.

You're correct.

OP: Stop believing the pontificating posts proclaiming WN will serve Hawaii from a certain "regular" here that always reposts Airliners.net rumors.

I'm confident they'll serve Hawaii at some point. My guess will be late 2013 or early 2014 before we see them in the islands. I wouldn't be surprised to see the companion pass restricted from Hawaii/Intl as well.



You're correct.

Actually, I believe WN will start Hawaii service sometime in early 2013 or mid-2013. Nobody who will tell you. If they have a agreement for overwater & international flights, too. They will approved it.

Have there been any insights as far as reward booking for Hawaii flights?

25-30k in points round trip?

Have there been any insights as far as reward booking for Hawaii flights?

25-30k in points round trip?

On WN? WN doesnt fly to HI so how would anyone have any insights other than pure not fact based guesses?

On WN? WN doesnt fly to HI so how would anyone have any insights other than pure not fact based guesses?

This isn't WNs first rodeo in terms of expansion. Insights can be based on intuition and not facts.

Perhaps a better question would be, when WN offers a new destination, is there any history to support undercutting the current providers?

This isn't WNs first rodeo in terms of expansion. Insights can be based on intuition and not facts.

Perhaps a better question would be, when WN offers a new destination, is there any history to support undercutting the current providers?

Good question! I believe that WN will be competitive with HA's sale fares. However, with free bags and no change fees, WN no longer has to offer ultra-low fares to be competitive. In other words, I don't think we'll see $198 r/t from LAX to HNL, but we may well see limited-time $400-$500 r/t fare sales from the west coast to HNL.

However, with free bags and no change fees, WN no longer has to offer ultra-low fares to be competitive.

But do competitors collect for EarlyBird check-in and for Business Select? EBCI netted them $142 million (http://www.11alive.com/news/article/249355/29/Airlines-made-226-billion-from-fees-in-2011) last year. Is Rapid Rewards an earning-and-benefits wash, vis-a-vis legacy programs? Are prospective low fares effectively underwritten by FL bag fee revenue?

I think they may have to offer a few ultra-low fares going forward to be competitive.

But do competitors collect for EarlyBird check-in and for Business Select? EBCI netted them $142 million (http://www.11alive.com/news/article/249355/29/Airlines-made-226-billion-from-fees-in-2011) last year. Is Rapid Rewards an earning-and-benefits wash, vis-a-vis legacy programs? Are prospective low fares effectively underwritten by FL bag fee revenue?

I think they may have to offer a few ultra-low fares going forward to be competitive.

This is a great counter point. I feel that if they're not priced < $400 RT from LAX to HNL, then I don't have a great incentive to fly WN.

This isn't WNs first rodeo in terms of expansion. Insights can be based on intuition and not facts.

Perhaps a better question would be, when WN offers a new destination, is there any history to support undercutting the current providers?

If you you can cash in a Rapid Rewards ticket to get to San Diego from where you are, Delta has a round trip from San Diego to Honolulu for about $385 total. I just purchased this Delta fare 3 weeks ago for September 18-25

If you you can cash in a Rapid Rewards ticket to get to San Diego from where you are, Delta has a round trip from San Diego to Honolulu for about $385 total. I just purchased this Delta fare 3 weeks ago for September 18-25

But you have to fly Delta...

But you have to fly Delta...

Who cares? It's $385 roundtrip to Hawaii.

IIRC, before Southwest has announced service to cities starting within their end of schedule. So, just because they've already announced an end of schedule, that doesn't make it impossible that service will start prior to that date.

All of that is general, and nothing which applies specifically to Hawaii.

That is more likely when the schedule has fewer total flights in it thus freeing up some aircraft. I'm not sure where the current schedule stands in that regard.

I sat next to an FA on a PHX-DEN flight two days ago - I casually asked her about flights to HI, not expecting her to know anything about it, but to my surprise, she told me that she had just heard earlier that morning that they would begin flights to HI in early 2013. Since the schedule is open until Mar 2013, I'm not sure how that would work. Maybe she meant that they would start selling in early 2103, but either way, I'm excited about it.

I told her I held companion pass and asked for her guess on whether it would work on flights to HI - she seemed to think it should, but didn't really know.

Since the schedule is open until Mar 2013, I'm not sure how that would work. Maybe she meant that they would start selling in early 2103, but either way, I'm excited about it.

WN has added flights to an "open" schedules in the past. But I agree that it will likely be after March. Technically, any date before July 1, 2012 would be "early" 2013 as opposed to "late" 2013. :D

I sat next to an FA on a PHX-DEN flight two days ago - I casually asked her about flights to HI, not expecting her to know anything about it, but to my surprise, she told me that she had just heard earlier that morning that they would begin flights to HI in early 2013.

Behind pilots, the FAs are the second most informed group at the airline. ;)

Behind pilots, the FAs are the second most informed group at the airline. ;)

Not to mention that pesky little issue of getting an ETOPS program in place (as in the certification, *not* just the ETOPS ready -800s).

Early 2013 would seem to be, at best, a target to start selling tickets for future travel.

Behind pilots, the FAs are the second most informed group at the airline. ;)

True... take it for what it's worth, I guess...

Have there been any insights as far as reward booking for Hawaii flights?

25-30k in points round trip?

I'm sure they would use the same rewards charging as for any other flight: 60 points = $1. If you assume that for non-summer months, they have a roundtrip fare of $360 (from the west coast) then it would cost 21,600 reward points for a roundtrip. It would be higher if flying from the east coast.

I'm sure they would use the same rewards charging as for any other flight: 60 points = $1. If you assume that for non-summer months, they have a roundtrip fare of $360 (from the west coast) then it would cost 21,600 reward points for a roundtrip. It would be higher if flying from the east coast.

The variable here is the comparison to other providers. If WN can match, then I thought we're looking at between 20-30k RT. If not, who knows...

The variable here is the comparison to other providers. If WN can match, then I thought we're looking at between 20-30k RT. If not, who knows...

It wouldn't make much sense for WN to enter in to the HI market if they couldn't compete on price. After all, that's their image.

It wouldn't make much sense for WN to enter in to the HI market if they couldn't compete on price. After all, that's their image.

I wonder if they can compete with $385 round trip total I just purchased from San Diego to Honolulu for September.

I wonder if they can compete with $385 round trip total I just purchased from San Diego to Honolulu for September.

I personally think this is high. The last 3 trips from DFW-OGG on UA we've paid $425, $425 and $375. Those are rare finds, but regular average is about $600. (Just booked one last week DFW-OGG on UA in mid-December for $560, r/t ai.)

Related to WA RR points, we can fly from IAH-OGG or DFW-OGG roundtrip for 40K on UA. That's about $675 in airfare which is more than we have ever paid. I'd look for about 25K points from the west coast, 30-35K points from the central region and 40K points from the east coast. IMHO.

I personally think this is high. The last 3 trips from DFW-OGG on UA we've paid $425, $425 and $375. Those are rare finds, but regular average is about $600. (Just booked one last week DFW-OGG on UA in mid-December for $560, r/t ai.)

Related to WA RR points, we can fly from IAH-OGG or DFW-OGG roundtrip for 40K on UA. That's about $675 in airfare which is more than we have ever paid. I'd look for about 25K points from the west coast, 30-35K points from the central region and 40K points from the east coast. IMHO.

With Southwest it will be related to price. $300 fare=18,000 RR pts.

they will likely not allow campion passes for these routes. Just like other airlines they restrict the free round trip to the continental US.


With he other airlines the minimum rewards you can find seat for is around 40K miles for a free RT. You will never see 25K for a RT.

the Southwest flight will originate from the west coast.

Like hubs for these flights will be Oakland, Phoenix, and Vegas. there will be a few other directs that fly from other weast coast cities but those wont be as frequent.

They are not likely going to expand to Hawaii until they have completely ended the transition out of the old reward system of free round trip after the 16 segments in 2 yrs were done.

the transition started in March 2011 so they want to make sure a majority of these free RT vouchers have been exhausted so people cant use them for Hawaii.

They are not likely going to expand to Hawaii until they have completely ended the transition out of the old reward system of free round trip after the 16 segments in 2 yrs were done.

the transition started in March 2011 so they want to make sure a majority of these free RT vouchers have been exhausted so people cant use them for Hawaii.

It's going to be several years then, with use of the AirTran>RR conversion.

It's going to be several years then, with use of the AirTran>RR conversion.

And standard awards are subject to availability anyway, unlike RR 2.0, so the standard awards don't even really matter if WN doesn't want them to.

And standard awards are subject to availability anyway, unlike RR 2.0, so the standard awards don't even really matter if WN doesn't want them to.

Under the old award system your credits in the system lasted for two years. If you got past two years those credits drop off.

Thus come March 2013 everything is on points only---none of the conversions.

Between now and MArch 2013 those people who accuilate their flights in this transition system with the old and new syystems..they need to accumilate to earn that free RT voucher which would be good for a year from the time of getting it.

I am sure they are monitoring this to see how customers are to know how the pool is with people and the liklihood of them getting the fre RT voucher.

Under the old award system your credits in the system lasted for two years. If you got past two years those credits drop off.

Thus come March 2013 everything is on points only---none of the conversions.

Between now and MArch 2013 those people who accuilate their flights in this transition system with the old and new syystems..they need to accumilate to earn that free RT voucher which would be good for a year from the time of getting it.

I am sure they are monitoring this to see how customers are to know how the pool is with people and the liklihood of them getting the fre RT voucher.

I'm not sure exactly what you're saying, but I think you may be missing the point. Standard Awards should not influence the timeline of Hawaii at all, since Southwest can simply choose to not make their use available.

Also, just to clarify, it's currently possible to move Awards back and forth between Southwest and AirTran, thus extending their expiration indefinitely.

it's currently possible to move Awards back and forth between Southwest and AirTran, thus extending their expiration indefinitely.

Not indefinitely as the two programs will collide, I mean, combine eventually.

Not indefinitely as the two programs will collide, I mean, combine eventually.

Currently possible.