Luxury Hotels - New General Manager at Oriental Bangkok

Was at the Oriental earlier this week and learned it is getting a new manager - Amanda Hyndman, who previously ran the M-O Washington DC. Her predecessor - Jan Goessing - was effectively fired from the Oriental Bangkok. "He did his best to destroy the hotel," I was told by staff who I've known for many many years. He nickled-and-dimed everything, lowered standards (both of which I can attest to) and was loathed by staff. He is getting a corporate role for M-O in the US.

Jan Goessing - was effectively fired from the Oriental Bangkok. "He did his best to destroy the hotel,"... and was loathed by staff. He is getting a corporate role for M-O in the US.
:eek:

How does this make sense?!?

:eek:

How does this make sense?!?

I'm guessing it's the equivalent of the Navy promoting a ship's captain to a desk.

You are not correct. He is the new GM of their flaghship U.S. property in Manhattan and at the same time oversee's the Boston property. That is hardly being banished to corporate headquarters.

With regards to complaints, anyone trying to fill the shoes of Kuhn Kurt would have a dificult time.

You have more information than I do. I was reporting on what was said to me and they were clear he was taking on a corporate role - I believe the term "vice president" was used.

Agree filling Kurt's shoes was next to impossible and he was no doubt under pressure to reduce costs in this economy, but the property went downhill under his management (my experience).

Reality, running a hotel like the Oriental requires revenue, ie room rates at $300+ or more. Everyone wants a deal, points and upgrades something has to give. Bangkok has a number of good alternatives to the Oriental which frankly does not have a great location. He obvioulsy did a good job, cut expenses, increased productivity of staff and got them to multi task!!

Reality, running a hotel like the Oriental requires revenue, ie room rates at $300+ or more. Everyone wants a deal, points and upgrades something has to give. Bangkok has a number of good alternatives to the Oriental which frankly does not have a great location. He obvioulsy did a good job, cut expenses, increased productivity of staff and got them to multi task!!

But possibly compromised on her " soul ".. Pity.
It is The Oriental after all, " poor " location or not
Met him in Feb .
Staff gave mixed comments - with many experienced staff ' retrenched ' by then.

Hmm, MONY & MOB??!

But possibly compromised on her " soul ".. Pity.
It is The Oriental after all, " poor " location or not
Met him in Feb .
Staff gave mixed comments - with many experienced staff ' retrenched ' by then.

Hmm, MONY & MOB??!

MOB recently got a new GM as well as the previous one left to take a more corporate position. From a brief meeting, he seemed to be very professional and the hotel was operating at a excellent standard at the time he took over. Hopefully he continues it and isn't pressured by some of the "efficiency" measures mentioned here.

The Mandarin Oriental in Washington, DC was a terribly run (and tired) hotel when I stayed a few years ago -- if Ms. Hyndman was GM there then, it does not bode well for the MO Bangkok. I tend to like Mandarin Oriental hotels -- and just this morning checked out of the Mandarin Oriental Las Vegas after three very nice nights there -- but the DC property is a real problem.

The Mandarin Oriental in Washington, DC was a terribly run (and tired) hotel when I stayed a few years ago -- if Ms. Hyndman was GM there then, it does not bode well for the MO Bangkok. I tend to like Mandarin Oriental hotels -- and just this morning checked out of the Mandarin Oriental Las Vegas after three very nice nights there -- but the DC property is a real problem.

Jan Goessing ran the Washington MO before coming to Bangkok if I remember my discussion with him correctly. I've never stayed there but its location in SW Washington is its biggest handicap I'd think.

Reality, running a hotel like the Oriental requires revenue, ie room rates at $300+ or more. Everyone wants a deal, points and upgrades something has to give. Bangkok has a number of good alternatives to the Oriental which frankly does not have a great location. He obvioulsy did a good job, cut expenses, increased productivity of staff and got them to multi task!!

I would strongly disagree with your comment that I bolded.

The Oriental does not do special deals or upgrades like many other BKK hotels. Virtuoso upgrades are almost unheard of there. They'd rather have an empty hotel at full prices rather than discount. It is the reverse of the Peninsula's business model.

I'm not a fan by any means of the Mandarin Oriental BKK since i was unceremoniously prevented from entering the lobby for wearing golf shorts (yes i was non-resident, but i did have dinner reservations at the hotel for that evening - needless to say, I cancelled!) but if this is the same Amanda that was at the Excelsior in Hong Kong then good luck to all those who love and cherish this hotel.

I had the unfortunate experience of interacting with her during her time in Hong Kong and couldn't believe that she worked for MO! But obviously she must be doing something right if she landed the MO Bangkok as her next gig!

I'm not a fan by any means of the Mandarin Oriental BKK since i was unceremoniously prevented from entering the lobby for wearing golf shorts (yes i was non-resident, but i did have dinner reservations at the hotel for that evening - needless to say, I cancelled!) but if this is the same Amanda that was at the Excelsior in Hong Kong then good luck to all those who love and cherish this hotel.

I had the unfortunate experience of interacting with her during her time in Hong Kong and couldn't believe that she worked for MO! But obviously she must be doing something right if she landed the MO Bangkok as her next gig!

Yes, that's her !

I'm not a fan by any means of the Mandarin Oriental BKK since i was unceremoniously prevented from entering the lobby for wearing golf shorts (yes i was non-resident, but i did have dinner reservations at the hotel for that evening - needless to say, I cancelled!)

Same exact thing happened to me eleven years ago. I haven't darkened the doors of that place since. I've stayed at The Peninsula forty-odd times over the same years. And I never fail to seize and opportunity to sh!t on the attitude of that place across the river.

The Mandarin Oriental in Washington, DC was a terribly run (and tired) hotel when I stayed a few years ago -- if Ms. Hyndman was GM there then, it does not bode well for the MO Bangkok. I tend to like Mandarin Oriental hotels -- and just this morning checked out of the Mandarin Oriental Las Vegas after three very nice nights there -- but the DC property is a real problem.

the MO DC has a terrible location. good restaurant. i presume it is a spec hotel, and MO has been contracted to run it. it is 10 blocks from nowhere, has no public transport, and cabs do not frequent the place as it is out of the way. offstreet parking is great. just park on the backside. wait til someone inside wanders by, and bang at the doors. they will open them.

I've stayed at The Peninsula forty-odd times over the same years. And I never fail to seize and opportunity to sh!t on the attitude of that place across the river.

For me The Peninsula is the best place in Bangkok by a wide margin. I'll be checking in again next week...!

The Mandarin Oriental in Washington, DC was a terribly run (and tired) hotel when I stayed a few years ago -- if Ms. Hyndman was GM there then, it does not bode well for the MO Bangkok. I tend to like Mandarin Oriental hotels -- and just this morning checked out of the Mandarin Oriental Las Vegas after three very nice nights there -- but the DC property is a real problem.

I was last at the MO l DC in 2010 and it was absolutely horrific. Service was terrible, F&B (except CityZen) mediocre, terrible lounge (wine and snacks from what appeared to be Sam's Club), nickel and dining everywhere. My guess is that Amanda Hyndman was GM then. Hopefully the MO BKK doesn't go downhill as much as the MO DC did. But I can't say I'm optimistic after my experience in DC.

i presume it is a spec hotel, and MO has been contracted to run it

MO ownership >
100% - hong kong, excelsior, london, munich / lease - paris, tokyo
96.9% - jakarta
96.2% - manila
92.6% - geneva
80% - washington
50% - singapore
44.9% - bangkok
25% - kuala lumpur, miami, new york

Amanda Hyndman
July 2012 - GM bangkok
October 2009 – July 2012 - washington GM
May 2007 – October 2009 - Excelsior guest manager
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/amanda-hyndman/8/7a3/b33

Jan Goessing
July 2012 - GM of new york and area VP ops for new york and boston
June 2009 - July 2012 - bangkok GM
March 2006 - June 2009 - washington GM
october 1998 - march 2006 - kahala GM
september 1997 - october 1998 - jakarta GM
x 1994 - september 1997 - hong kong hotel manager

...since i was unceremoniously prevented from entering the lobby for wearing golf shorts

Same exact thing happened to me eleven years ago. I haven't darkened the doors of that place since.

Time to lay the petty grudges down. By now you know that this is pretty standard for Asia. Don't you get tired of beating the same drum over and over...? we're tired of hearing it.

I agree that this hotel does and likely will face many challenges, with competition making the model here difficult to succeed. I wish the new management all the best.

seanthepilot, not enforcing dress code for guests is ridiculous

not to mention it was HOW it was done

seanthepilot, not enforcing dress code for guests is ridiculous

not to mention it was HOW it was done

I think you and I agree. Many hotels have a dress code. It should be upheld.

I ran into the same problem years ago, and found it just as frustrating. But, they weren't wrong. I just had to learn how things are over here. Since, I have adjusted my thinking and my behaviour, and you will usually find me in long pants in Asia (outside of Phuket where it's a 50/50 chance).

you dont seem to understand, there was a dress code, that was only selectively enforced on some non-guests, and done in a poor way by any standard

not to mention >
The door policy does not appear to keep out the sightseers. Earlier this year we watched endless lines of backpacker people wander past the Verandah with their cameras
but all this is presumably moot after kurt left. feb 2012 >
I'm currently at the Mandarin-Oriental...lobby...swarming large groups
Must have just missed you

It is/was indeed very full with what seemed like a few functions/ meetings on concurrently.

I too feel that perhaps a number of the staff weren't coping as well but some were . Perhaps with many new staff since Jan G came onboard, the training is still in progress & not up to speed - MO standards yet. There's a note in the room too that MOBKK is sponsoring an apprenticeship program & to bear with - encourage - these individuals.

perhaps the type of crowd you encountered didn't help

It's that the numbers that come to gawk don't help either

many older staff have retired

i just thought of something. for bangkok, maybe the owners wanted to cut costs, so they made sure to bring in a (nonluxury) GM to do that, to prevent any loss of face for kurt. must also be less compensation.

certainly not a coincidence that both people we are discussing went from washington (poorly regarded) to bangkok, and someone specifically mentioned having dealt with amanda in the past. at poorly regarded excelsior.

also, kahala is currently poorly regarded re service, with halekulani being comparably better. if it was not better regarded under MO, thats another point. >
stayed at the Kahala several times in 98,99 and 2000...service was pretty bad

i just thought of something. for bangkok, maybe the owners wanted to cut costs, so they made sure to bring in a (nonluxury) GM to do that, to prevent any loss of face for kurt. must also be less compensation.

certainly not a coincidence that both people we are discussing went from washington (poorly regarded) to bangkok, and someone specifically mentioned having dealt with amanda in the past. at excelsior, which is poorly regarded here.


I don't know enough about hotel management/owner contracts to really judge, but I too was thinking that it was strange that both went from the mediocre MODC to the flagship MOBKK. Perhaps you're right on the intent. Strange to do that to one of their two flagship properties, though...

from my last post >
old staff being replaced by new staff - again must be less compensation.
Did I read somewhere that he had a considerable financial stake in the hotel?

He is married to a Royally-connected lady and therefore has/had a lot of influence. I suspect that the financial stake is on her family's side.

Interestingly he used to have an apartment on the top floor of the spa, but a couple of years ago, Mandarin asked him to leave and built an Ayurvedic suite up there instead.
so who is kurt's wife? (boonnak?)

bottom line karnasuta/charanachitta (related) control oriental residence and mandarin oriental BKK

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandarin_Oriental,_Bangkok#Italthai
http://www.forbes.com/lists/2011/85/thailand-billionaires-11_Nijaporn-Charanachitta_HDLP.html
http://www.forbes.com/lists/2010/85/thailands-richest-10_Nijaporn-Charanachitta_HDLP.html
http://www.forbes.com/lists/2010/85/thailands-richest-10_Premchai-Karnasuta_TTTS.html

I believe Kurt is staying on the Board of the Hotel owner

http://www2.irrawaddy.org/article.php?art_id=11100
interesting, case was dismissed

hotel financials >
http://quicktake.morningstar.com/stocknet/secdocuments.aspx?symbol=ohtl&country=tha

also, kahala is currently poorly regarded re service, with halekulani being comparably better. if it was not better regarded under MO, thats another point.

I stayed at the Kahala several times in 98,99 and 2000. It was nothing special and service was pretty bad in my experience. I was working for a client that got a good rate there otherwise I would gladly chosen another property.

Time to lay the petty grudges down. By now you know that this is pretty standard for Asia. Don't you get tired of beating the same drum over and over...? we're tired of hearing it.


No, I don't think it's time to let it go. Some things are done so poorly, impolitely, and inhospitably that they need never be forgotten. If you don't like reading it, then don't read it. And kindly don't characterize it as a "petty grudge," when that is certainly not what's going on here.

And, no, it's not about knowing how things are done in Asia. They were rude and inappropriate and handled the situation in a very un-Thai fashion, according to my Thai partner.

No, I don't think it's time to let it go. Some things are done so poorly, impolitely, and inhospitably that they need never be forgotten. If you don't like reading it, then don't read it. And kindly don't characterize it as a "petty grudge," when that is certainly not what's going on here.

And, no, it's not about knowing how things are done in Asia. They were rude and inappropriate and handled the situation in a very un-Thai fashion, according to my Thai partner.

Well to give this some balance, I hate the Pen, had terrible service, noise by pool, rude staff etc & could not wait to return to the peace and wonderful staff of the MO.....this was a few years ago though, IMHO MO run far better hotels than Pen. MONYC is the best in NYC & I went from there to the Pen Chicago & hated that as well!

I had a horrible experience at the MO -- poor service throughout from Front Desk, butler, and Concierge. I was extremely ill but the hotel did not care to even ask if I needed a doctor.

I sent feedback to Kurt and all I got back was a form letter essentially telling me it was my honor to stay at their illustrious hotel and that next time my expectations should match the thrill of paying to stay there.

I still avoid MO BKK and do not recommend it to anyone. My home in BKK is the Four Seasons.

This really soured my impression of the hotel and the entire chain; that is, until I stayed at 3 of their European properties: London, Paris and Barcelona.

I had a horrible experience at the MO -- poor service throughout from Front Desk, butler, and Concierge. I was extremely ill but the hotel did not care to even ask if I needed a doctor.

I sent feedback to Kurt and all I got back was a form letter essentially telling me it was my honor to stay at their illustrious hotel and that next time my expectations should match the thrill of paying to stay there.

I still avoid MO BKK and do not recommend it to anyone. My home in BKK is the Four Seasons.

This really soured my impression of the hotel and the entire chain; that is, until I stayed at 3 of their European properties: London, Paris and Barcelona.

Agreed re FS BKK, top hotel

Time to lay the petty grudges down. By now you know that this is pretty standard for Asia. Don't you get tired of beating the same drum over and over...? we're tired of hearing it.

I agree that this hotel does and likely will face many challenges, with competition making the model here difficult to succeed. I wish the new management all the best.

As mentioned, it's more about their attitude and how they made me feel - its as if I was trying to walk into the Playboy Mansion uninvited!

And it wasn't just from the security (whom I would suspect would just be following instructions) but also from a guest relations type of person who reiterated that there is a very strict dress code And they could email me the menu instead!! Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?!

Looks as though the Siam is going to blow all of these properties out of the water! I tend to avoid spending much time in Bangkok, preferring to be on the beach or up North.

Looks as though the Siam is going to blow all of these properties out of the water! I tend to avoid spending much time in Bangkok, preferring to be on the beach or up North.

SIAM will certainly be a leader however its location is not very convenient if you are working in Bangkok.

No, I don't think it's time to let it go. Some things are done so poorly, impolitely, and inhospitably that they need never be forgotten. If you don't like reading it, then don't read it. And kindly don't characterize it as a "petty grudge," when that is certainly not what's going on here.

And, no, it's not about knowing how things are done in Asia. They were rude and inappropriate and handled the situation in a very un-Thai fashion, according to my Thai partner.

As a regular contributor on many forums, everyone (including me) appreciates your input. Feel free to relive this terrible experience in posts as much as you want. It won't affect my life. I already know how you feel. But, perhaps you don't know how it affects your own credibility. 11 years on, you're still as passionate of how horrible it was, and want everyone to know how you were mistreated... and I shouldn't refer to it as a petty grudge? Hmmmm.

Did you ever consider what your experience that day would have been if you had complied with the dress code? Did you ever consider that you were wrong, before they even mishandled the situation?

As mentioned, it's more about their attitude and how they made me feel - its as if I was trying to walk into the Playboy Mansion uninvited!

And it wasn't just from the security (whom I would suspect would just be following instructions) but also from a guest relations type of person who reiterated that there is a very strict dress code And they could email me the menu instead!! Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?!

I repeat the above comment. Assuming that you could relive that moment again, do you think that if you could have just been compliant with the dress code, the whole situation would have been a non-starter. Mishandling the situation aside, complying with the dress code would have negated the issue, and avoided any interaction with the guest relations agent who was assigned to handle your situation. Just out of interest, how should they have handled your situation any better?

This thread is wandering towards dangerous territory, albeit in a calmer manner than in other forums. The points about the MO Bangkok dress code have been made and countered enough for everyone to get the idea, and it seems like a good time to let them rest for now.

RichardInSF, moderator, luxury hotels

the whole thing is most likely moot. some did not like kurt's style, but none have stayed after his departure. where we went from a distinct style to not one but two reportedly not good GMs.

staff changes are also a difference, not sure of overall impact.

the whole thing is most likely moot. some did not like kurt's style, but none have stayed after his departure. where we went from a distinct style to not one but two reportedly not good GMs.

staff changes are also a difference, not sure of overall impact.

To me the service at the FS has been better overall than the MO for quite some years now. Let's see if the new GM can up the ante- there is some very stiff competition now in Bangkok both from existing hotels and new openings like the SIAM.

Putting service aside as at the end of the day they are all excellent; IMHO you don't want to be in BKK without being on the river. Nor do you want to be in IST without being on the Bosphorous or HKG without a harbor view.

Putting service aside as at the end of the day they are all excellent; IMHO you don't want to be in BKK without being on the river. Nor do you want to be in IST without being on the Bosphorous or HKG without a harbor view.

In BKK I actually far prefer the Four Seasons. The river is nice one time as a tourist- if you are visiting BKK monthly for business the river novelty wears out quickly as does the extra 30 minutes of travel time in the morning and the evening that comes with the river location.

So, back on topic, how has the MOBKK gone downhill since Kurt left? I never liked the guy, but he ran a very tight, albeit classist/elitist, and exclusive ship, clearly delineating who was "in" and who was "out", and sometimes confusing those who were "in" with the "outs" and leading to some long, long and highly emotional grudges the likes which other hotels do not generate. I am not just talking about posters in this forum, some friends of mine who were guests there were confused for non-guests and it wasn't a pretty sight. To this day, a decade later they will still spit sideways and do the a two-handed one-fingered salute at the mention of the hotel.

What has happened since Kurt left? Any specifics?

http://twitter.com/amandahyndman

hope thats ghostwritten..

http://twitter.com/amandahyndman

hope thats ghostwritten..

Are these the tweets of a hotel manager at a storied institution, or of a woman on a name-dropping, look-at-me vacation? This doesn't bode well.

http://twitter.com/amandahyndman

hope thats ghostwritten..

I wonder if Amanda Hyndman realised that Marisa Sukosol was one of the owners of The Siam when she replied to her tweet?

Marisa Sukosol Nunbh ‏@marisanun

@amandahyndman @MO_Bangkok enjoyed lovely dinner w hubby at Verandah last night after wedding we attended, service was gr8 as always ka:) T


6 Aug amanda hyndman amanda hyndman ‏@amandahyndman

@marisanun Thank you so much - we aim to DELIGHT kha!

The Best Hotel in the World IMHO
I have been staying at The MOBKK since I was a teen taken by my father 40 years ago. Now, I bring my son here.
For me La Grande Dame has always remained outstanding at the level of service, professionalism and food and beverage.
I have stayed here during Khun Kurt' s era, and also every year during Jan Gossing and his team. There was no noticeable difference, and the team at MOBKK seemed happy with Jan, and I certainly saw all the old faces that had been here for years, and greet us like family returning home. (so I can't comment on old time staff leaving). As a guest nothing has changed if anything the service is even better (if that's possible).
They have always comped us for the meet and greet at air-bridge on arrival, immigration and limo transfer to and from hotel.
I have yet to meet Amanda Hyndman, but already I am impressed.
Amanda, took the time to write to me and my family in Australia to talk of her new role and to welcome us back when we go this coming January.
I wrote back to her and consequently received another hand written response from her which I find exceptional, in this day and age of electronic correspondence.
We have stayed at some of the worlds most famous hotels in Europe Asia and America, but find that all are are poor cousin when compared the the MOBKK.
It is the only hotel in the world in which I could truly wish to live in.

In regards to our friend and his tirade re dress code that seems to be going on indefinitely on numerous posts. "He must be well balanced, as it seems he has a chip on BOTH shoulders." :p

you acknowledge regulars get special treatment

then yet another misrepresentation of dress code discussion
(not enforced for guests, selectively enforced for nonguests)

in this thread >
some friends of mine who were guests there were confused for non-guests and it wasn't a pretty sight. To this day, a decade later they will still spit sideways and do the a two-handed one-fingered salute at the mention of the hotel
selectively enforced for nonguests >
The door policy does not appear to keep out the sightseers. Earlier this year we watched endless lines of backpacker people wander past the Verandah with their cameras

then yet another misrepresentation of dress code discussion
(not enforced for guests, selectively enforced for nonguests)

in this thread >

selectively enforced for nonguests >

They are not alone, Raffles Singapore is not a pretty sight either and the arrogance of the staff unique in the world.

To be fair: These are landmark properties one just wants to visit while in a city. So it is difficult to handle.

you acknowledge regulars get special treatment

then yet another misrepresentation of dress code discussion
(not enforced for guests, selectively enforced for nonguests)

in this thread >

selectively enforced for nonguests >

Since when did regulars NOT get special treatment, anywhere? Is it wrong to reward loyalty and give VIP guests a little extra consideration?

The Best Hotel in the World IMHO
I have been staying at The MOBKK since I was a teen taken by my father 40 years ago. Now, I bring my son here.
For me La Grande Dame has always remained outstanding at the level of service, professionalism and food and beverage.
I have stayed here during Khun Kurt' s era, and also every year during Jan Gossing and his team. There was no noticeable difference, and the team at MOBKK seemed happy with Jan, and I certainly saw all the old faces that had been here for years, and greet us like family returning home. (so I can't comment on old time staff leaving). As a guest nothing has changed if anything the service is even better (if that's possible).
They have always comped us for the meet and greet at air-bridge on arrival, immigration and limo transfer to and from hotel.
I have yet to meet Amanda Hyndman, but already I am impressed.
Amanda, took the time to write to me and my family in Australia to talk of her new role and to welcome us back when we go this coming January.
I wrote back to her and consequently received another hand written response from her which I find exceptional, in this day and age of electronic correspondence.
We have stayed at some of the worlds most famous hotels in Europe Asia and America, but find that all are are poor cousin when compared the the MOBKK.
It is the only hotel in the world in which I could truly wish to live in.

In regards to our friend and his tirade re dress code that seems to be going on indefinitely on numerous posts. "He must be well balanced, as it seems he has a chip on BOTH shoulders." :p
I whole heartedly concur with Excell. My wife and I would also live at the Oriental.

I whole heartedly concur with Excell. My wife and I would also live at the Oriental.

Have stayed at the Oriental BKK numerous times and always love it. One of my favorite hotels in the world. Have always had wonderful service and they always remember the rooms I like and my preferences. When alone on business I book a state room right on the river. If on holiday with husband book authors suite. I have tried the Pen several times and really like their grand deluxe suites, but don't like that side of the river. Prefer their pool, but not their restaurants, and access to other restaurants. Also had one serious service mishap. GM very embarrassed but I am not a complainer so just have not been back which is fine as prefer Oriental anyway! But I o know others love the Pen.
This year trying the Siam on front end of trip and really looking forward to it! But will go back to Oriental on way home!
I also prfer for business or pleasure to be on river, even with the extra commute time! But clearly just MHO!