Checkpoints and Borders Policy Debate - Globe Owners Rejoice!

http://overheadbin.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/07/16/12774618-tsa-relaxing-rules-on-snow-globes-at-airport-checkpoints

Apparently the TSA will now allow "small" snow globes in your carryon if it appears to have 3.4 oz of liquid or less. The catch is that the snow globe must fit into your 3-1-1 bag. And you don't get a separate 3-1-1 bag for your snow globe and 1 for your other liquids. Here is the best quote from the article: "...TSA officers will be aware of the size requirement and apply “some discretion in their evaluation of the item being transported."" It will be interesting on how the "discretion" works.

Anyone want to do the math? What is the diameter of a sphere containing 3.4 oz of liquid? A large marble? I think egg size would be too large.

I'm sure Disney and places like that will have signs stating certain snow globes they sell are "TSA Compliant". I wonder how long it will take for the first story of a kid's compliant snow globe being confiscated to come out? Trusting the TSA's judgement and discretion seems like a good way to have to "voluntarily surrender" a snow globe.

Are snow globes really that big of an issue for the TSA to worry about? I would much rather have them work on a way for me to carry a bottle of water or soda through security. I'll even put it in a ziploc bag if they want. They have a way to test liquids at the gate, so why not the checkpoint? Do the TSA magic strips only work at the gate?

I'm eagerly awaiting the occasion of the first magic test strip hovered over a snow globe at the gate.

Anyone want to do the math? What is the diameter of a sphere containing 3.4 oz of liquid? A large marble? I think egg size would be too large.

If I did my math correctly, it should be about 2.272" in diameter. That's slightly smaller than a tennis ball (2.575-2.700").

I am envisioning the nation's best science minds -- the best of the best from MIT, Stanford, CalTech -- spending days and nights holed up in their laboratories, poring over the data from their experiments with snow globes from a wide variety of the nation's top tourist destinations, finally concluding that no, said snow globes do not pose an existential threat to this great nation as we know it today.

Here is the best quote from the article: "...TSA officers will be aware of the size requirement and apply “some discretion in their evaluation of the item being transported."" It will be interesting on how the "discretion" works.

Discretion and size issues don't seem to work out too well for the TSA. (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/16/jonah-falcon-largest-penis-frisked-by-tsa_n_1675767.html)

http://http://overheadbin.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/07/16/12774618-tsa-relaxing-rules-on-snow-globes-at-airport-checkpoints?lite (http://overheadbin.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/07/16/12774618-tsa-relaxing-rules-on-snow-globes-at-airport-checkpoints?lite)

Oh dear, now the TSA Clerks are going to be given some discretion. Another PR disaster waiting to happen for the TSA.

A control freak walked into a bar and said ""And it has to be the same bag. You don't get a 3-1-1 bag and a snow-globe bag," he added."

Where would TSA be if it didn't micromanage stupidity?

Won't work.

In the 'testing eye drops' thread, post #106, we find out why not. An alleged TSA rep responds to a poster's grumble that 'highly trained, experienced, professional' xray technicians can't tell the difference between a netbook and a tablet (resulting in hysterical barking, red-faced TSOs and pax having to pull an allowed tablet out of his/her bag, in spite of the stated rules).

The alleged TSA rep defends this by pointing out:

"We don’t have calibrated eyes, we guess right along with everyone else. And an x-ray cannot tell the difference in size between them, there is no scale on the side of the screen giving us a representation of how large something is. "

Perhaps HQ should have consulted with the troops, like this alleged rep, before making such a change. Perhaps HQ is out of touch with how ...'limited' the abilities of the TSOs at the checkpoint are....

How often does a TSO 'guess' in favor of the pax? Particularly when the item in question is a handy, easily pocketed little gift like a snow-globe?

Sadly, not all snow globes are, strictly speaking, 'globes'. Wonder how many TSOs will take advantage of that to get their stocking stuffers free?

If I were carrying a snow globe, I'd carry a copy of the new rule with me (to be told, of course, that the new rule is already out of date and the snow globes have been re-banned). It actually is an issue for me, since my kids love snow globes.

Mike

If I were carrying a snow globe, I'd carry a copy of the new rule with me (to be told, of course, that the new rule is already out of date and the snow globes have been re-banned). It actually is an issue for me, since my kids love snow globes.

Mike

New rule won't matter - not just for the reason (backed by a recent post by an alleged TSA rep) cited in my post above.

TSOs occasionally still confiscate LGAs because the container isn't specifically labelled, regardless of size (small shampoo bottle, same size as other containers in baggie, but label has worn off).

I expect we'll see repeats of the 'cupcake' incident, where, in the absence of clearer rules, a non-globe shape will get confiscated or a TSO will simply 'guess' that your snow globe contains 3.5 ounces of liquid.

Website print-out? The website still doesn't make clear that ice chips (remember Brittany Spears) are allowed, even though during that incident we were told that the rules had recently changed, the website just hadn't been updated yet (and still hasn't). The website is always out-of-date or TSA does it 'differently' at the airport you're at.

Do a Google search for the following:

(( 4.3 oz / ((4/3)*pi) ) ^ (1/3))*2 to in

...and Google will do the dimensional analysis for you and give you the answer:

(((4.3 oz) / ((4 / 3) * pi))^(1 / 3)) * 2 = 2.45635207 in

So there we go; the snow globe's interior diameter must be <=2.4 in.

Of course, the snow globe would need its volume factory-labeled on the bottom of the base; otherwise, an unlabeled snow globe could be carrying enough explosives to bring down several A380s simultaneously.

So the TSA won't trust us with more than 3.4 oz. of liquid, but they _do_ trust manufacturers to label them correctly.

Does someone here work for Coleman? I want a gallon sports jug labeled "3 oz".

If this news doesn't make you want to pack the family onto an airplane to visit a theme park, I don't know what will. Sure, they might have to investigate your infant's diaper contents or send grandpa's pants to the floor, but.....snowglobes!!!

Honestly....shaking my head.....

If I did my math correctly, it should be about 2.272" in diameter. That's slightly smaller than a tennis ball (2.575-2.700").
Too big.

(((4.3 oz) / ((4 / 3) * pi))^(1 / 3)) * 2 = 2.45635207 in
So there we go; the snow globe's interior diameter must be <=2.4 in.
Still too big. And inconsistent, since 2.4 is < 2.45635207 .

I think instead of ( 4 / 3) you need to have this as 3/4, because you are solving for the radius, not the volume.

V = 4/3 * pi * r^3

r = (V / pi * 3 / 4) ^ (1/3)

d = 2 * ((V / pi * 3 / 4) ^ (1/3) )

100 mL == 100 cm^3 of volume, so d = 2 * ((100 / pi * 3 / 4) ^ (1/3) )

plugging this into google: 2 * ((100 / pi * 3 / 4) ^ (1/3) ) cm to inches

yields: 2.26725347 inches

I would like to comment that this rule had not went into affect yet and I don't know when it will just that it will be later this year. Back to lurker mode and I will not respond to any questions or comments.

If I did my math correctly, it should be about 2.272" in diameter. That's slightly smaller than a tennis ball (2.575-2.700").

That's still a small small world for most Disney snowglobes.

Too big.

Still too big. And inconsistent, since 2.4 is < 2.45635207 .

I think instead of ( 4 / 3) you need to have this as 3/4, because you are solving for the radius, not the volume.

V = 4/3 * pi * r^3

r = (V / pi * 3 / 4) ^ (1/3)

d = 2 * ((V / pi * 3 / 4) ^ (1/3) )

100 mL == 100 cm^3 of volume, so d = 2 * ((100 / pi * 3 / 4) ^ (1/3) )

plugging this into google: 2 * ((100 / pi * 3 / 4) ^ (1/3) ) cm to inches

yields: 2.26725347 inches

I'll trust the math on this other than note that the first equation (from the OP) solved for 4.3 oz rather than 3.4? (oramijustmissingsomething?) PLUS, these aren't usually true "globes" that we're talking about! <now that throws off all the equations!>

Anyways... A truly TSA safe snow globe would be packaged without fluid entirely (the old ones used to be re-fillable) and would perhaps include 3.4 oz sealed plastic envelopes of distilled water with which the globe could later be filled. But that's just ridiculous.

That's still a small small world for most Disney snowglobes.

^

I can't do the math but I'm looking at a 3.4 oz of face cream right now and it's almost exactly the size of a tennis ball.
My niece collects them and I always do carry-on. I'm going to test it out next week.

I can't do the math but I'm looking at a 3.4 oz of face cream right now and it's almost exactly the size of a tennis ball.
My niece collects them and I always do carry-on. I'm going to test it out next week.

Please post your results (wish you luck!)

I'm pessimistic about this, partly because it takes TSA so long to train their people on changes (NEXUS, anyone?), partly because it's just asking for trouble when the criteria is as ill-defined as it seems to be and so very much is left up to the screener.

I have some old snowglobes that aren't globes, they are dome-shaped. I hope we don't have TSOs taking a strict interpretation and confiscating anything that isn't an actual globe.

I'm finally at home with my trusty TI-89 that does dimensional analysis _and_ has a computer algebra system ("solve for x"), so I can finally solve this once and for all. I _do_ acknowledge that, in a previous post, I inadvertently used 4.3 oz instead of 3.4 oz.

Here's what I put into the calculator:

solve(3.4*_floz=4/3*pi*(d/2)^3,d)

Converting the default meters into inches, we have 2.27140251155 in. So, 2.27 in.

If the TS"O"s decide that the limit is 3 fl. oz., we're down to 2.18 in.

If they decide to be European and use a limit of 100 mL, then we're looking at a diameter of 57.6 mm.

Either way, if the TS"O" decides that your snow globe will make a great stocking stuffer for someone, you're going to "voluntarily surrender" it. Or exit the line and risk a $11,000 fine to throw it in a landside trash can to keep the TS"O"s from appropriating it for themselves.

Either way, if the TS"O" decides that your snow globe will make a great stocking stuffer for someone, you're going to "voluntarily surrender" it. Or exit the line and risk a $11,000 fine to throw it in a landside trash can to keep the TS"O"s from appropriating it for themselves.

Yup.

Expecting the TSOs to accurately assess whether or not a snowglobe is 'about the size of a tennis ball' or 2.1" or less in diameter is asking for trouble.

Some TSO (possibly the same one who tried to confiscate dried pasta because you add water and...??) is going to confiscate a snowglobe that isn't 'globe-shaped' or is going to decide that the 2.1" or less in diameter includes globe and base.

I even feel for the 'good' TSOs - this is a nightmare waiting to happen.

I'd really like to know what triggered this peculiar update to the rules. Someone has a vested financial interest, there's no other explanation. Disney?

Meanwhile, ten years on, no one at TSA can tell me if aluminum tent poles are allowed as carry-on....:td:

I would like to comment that this rule had not went into affect yet and I don't know when it will just that it will be later this year. Back to lurker mode and I will not respond to any questions or comments.

Thanks for posting this. I appreciate your attempt to be helpful.

From the article (bolding mine): "The rule is expected to be fully in place by mid-August -- just in time for end-of summer trips to Disneyland, SeaWorld and Busch Gardens."

I wish TSA had just waited until everyone at every airport was fully on board before announcing this. Better for the TSOs, better for the pax.

Thanks for posting this. I appreciate your attempt to be helpful.

From the article (bolding mine): "The rule is expected to be fully in place by mid-August -- just in time for end-of summer trips to Disneyland, SeaWorld and Busch Gardens."

I wish TSA had just waited until everyone at every airport was fully on board before announcing this. Better for the TSOs, better for the pax.

This is part of a bunch of changes to the SOP. The effective date for all of the changes according to TSA HQ: July 20th - August 18th.

This is part of a bunch of changes to the SOP. The effective date for all of the changes according to TSA HQ: July 20th - August 18th.

Thanks. I hope they update the website. I'm going to assume I'd be taking a risk at any time before the 18th.

http://overheadbin.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/07/16/12774618-tsa-relaxing-rules-on-snow-globes-at-airport-checkpoints

Apparently the TSA will now allow "small" snow globes in your carryon if it appears to have 3.4 oz of liquid or less. The catch is that the snow globe must fit into your 3-1-1 bag. And you don't get a separate 3-1-1 bag for your snow globe and 1 for your other liquids. Here is the best quote from the article: "...TSA officers will be aware of the size requirement and apply “some discretion in their evaluation of the item being transported."" It will be interesting on how the "discretion" works.

Tennis balls will not be used to determine the size and volume of snow globes. Instead, TSA officers will be aware of the size requirement and apply “some discretion in their evaluation of the item being transported,” Castelveter said. As a general rule, he said, if a snow globe is the size of an average fist, it should get through.

Maybe the TSA will simply cup them in their gloved hands and heft them to check for diameter and weight. Good practice for enhanced searches.

Maybe the TSA will simply cup them in their gloved hands and heft them to check for diameter and weight. Good practice for enhanced searches.

:eek::eek: :D

Anyone want to do the math? What is the diameter of a sphere containing 3.4 oz of liquid? A large marble? I think egg size would be too large.

King Authur: A Duck!


hahahaha, it is about the size of a tennis ball, another article mentioned the tennis ball.

Hey guys,

Assuming the above math is right, and the diameter works out to be 2.27", shouldn't we be allowed to add the thickness of the glass (twice) to this diameter, since the glass itself doesn't represent a dangerous liquid?

If a snowglobe's glass (or plastic case for you cheapskates) is .06" thick, tehn we should get to have snowglobes that are 2.27 + .12 = 2.39".

Just to make sure.

J

Hey guys,

Assuming the above math is right, and the diameter works out to be 2.27", shouldn't we be allowed to add the thickness of the glass (twice) to this diameter, since the glass itself doesn't represent a dangerous liquid?

If a snowglobe's glass (or plastic case for you cheapskates) is .06" thick, tehn we should get to have snowglobes that are 2.27 + .12 = 2.39".

Just to make sure.

J

You can never be too sure. There's no standard for the thickness of the glass on a snow globe, so using outside diameter is the only way to make sure the liquid volume stays below 3.4 fl oz, therefore preventing it from becoming explosive and taking down an A380.

You can never be too sure. There's no standard for the thickness of the glass on a snow globe, so using outside diameter is the only way to make sure the liquid volume stays below 3.4 fl oz, therefore preventing it from becoming explosive and taking down an A380.

You're right, but you're forgetting the one tool we have in order to get this settled.

Tax money.

As in, the government can use some of our tax money to form a 5-star commission operating under ASTM's umbrella to draft a standard for snow globe glass thickness as a function of volume, color, subject matter, level of Compliance with CPSC requirements for paint, chlorine content, country of origin and proximity of final assembly facility to hotly contested swing state voting districts.

Then the standard can be published, and manufacturers can be allowed some reasonable amount of time to bring all the snow globes into compliaNce for glass thickness (let's say three years), then TSA can roll out a snow globes standards compliance training program that allows a go / no-go based solely on outside diameter since globes now have a standardized thickness based on the above variables.

All that's left is to hire a former political contributor to create and distribute a TSA Official Snow Globe Template that clearly and succinctly outline those variables and how TSOs should react to each of the variables. give them a year for the template rollouts.

Then all that's left (I know I said that before but hey you can never be too safe) is for TSA to institute a TSO training regiment that helps the TSOs understand how to use the new template to correctly identify the destructive A380-obliterates from the amusement park souvenirs. Give them a year for training since this a critical issue.

So I think we could have this wrapped up in just over half a decade, right?

J

I bought a small snowglobe in Thailand and I just went thru BKK security with it in my baggie. It will also go through secuity checks in Singapore, Male, Singapore again, Narita and Houston before I get home.