Star Alliance - Would you replace UA ps F + SQ J with anything to get to FRA?

I currently have an F award reservation with the departure in a little less than 3 weeks. The first two legs to get to FRA are UA ps F LAX-JFK followed by SQ J on the 388 to FRA. The follow on flights are a hop to ZRH to meet up with LX F to BKK.

So the question is, what, if anything, would you substitute in if the award availability became available? This is the list I came up with:

Definitely replace:

LH F SFO-FRA (388)
LH F IAH-FRA (388)
LH F JFK-FRA (388) (but only because I would already be at JFK)


Maybe replace:

UA new F on the 744 SFO-FRA
LH new F to MUC from LAX/SFO (bad flight timing which would likely eliminate my first visit to the FCT)
LH old F to FRA from anywhere west of the Mississippi (LAX, DFW, SEA, YVR, DEN)
LH new F on the 748 IAD-FRA (need to find a decent transcon to match up with it and it becomes a relatively short flight in F)
NZ J LAX-LHR (extremely unlikely)
LX F LAX/SFO-ZRH (extremely unlikely and would eliminate my first visit to the FCT since I need to be in ZRH anyways)


Opinions or other options I missed?

In my opinion, LX first class and LH first class (both old and new) are far superior to SQ business class. Check the LH forum for details. Don't know about UA first.

Assuming that your origin is LAX, I would strongly recommend an evening flight from LAX to Europe.

My order of priority would be:

anything that is non-stop into ZRH (i.e. LX F to ZRH)
anything that is non-stop to Europe and avoids the transfer on the way to Europe (i.e. LH, UA or NZ to FRA, MUC or LHR)
anything that is international first class over UA ps and SQ business class (i.e. LH, LX or UA first class)


But if you want to try the A380 and experience the first class terminal in FRA, your priorities might be different.

Greg45 is correct. Non Stop would be my first choice (the FCT is nice but not nice enough for an extra connection). Connecting in Europe vs. connecting in the US would be the second choice.

F on LH or LH first choice (no matter which plane type) over SQ C over UA F over NZ J over UA PS

In my opinion, LX first class and LH first class (both old and new) are far superior to SQ business class. Check the LH forum for details. Don't know about UA first.

Assuming that your origin is LAX, I would strongly recommend an evening flight from LAX to Europe.

My order of priority would be:

anything that is non-stop into ZRH (i.e. LX F to ZRH)
anything that is non-stop to Europe and avoids the transfer on the way to Europe (i.e. LH, UA or NZ to FRA, MUC or LHR)
anything that is international first class over UA ps and SQ business class (i.e. LH, LX or UA first class)


But if you want to try the A380 and experience the first class terminal in FRA, your priorities might be different.

Greg45 is correct. Non Stop would be my first choice (the FCT is nice but not nice enough for an extra connection). Connecting in Europe vs. connecting in the US would be the second choice.

F on LH or LH first choice (no matter which plane type) over SQ C over UA F over NZ J over UA PS


Thanks to both for the opinions. What's interesting is that I actually had UA J (pmCO lie flat seats) LAX-IAD followed by UA F to FRA and changed to this routing (i.e. I dumped UA F in favor of SQ J). The seat is wider, service is better and I get to try the 388 which I haven't done yet. Also, I was on a 777 IAD-FRA which mean sit is always subject to UA 777 roulette even though it is scheduled as IPTE.

I agree with trying to eliminate the stop within the US, especially if it is east of the Mississippi. It just breaks the flights up too much leaving no real time to get a good rest before arriving in Europe. I think I would still allow a connection in the US, but my order of preference would be:

SFO (388)
IAH (388)
DEN
SEA,YVR,DFW all tied


All of these still allow a decently long flight into Europe which allows for some food, maybe a movie, and a decent rest.

The one thing I think you guys disagree on (if I am reading it right) is whether UA Intl F trumps SQ J when a US connection is involved. I think you both agree that UA Intl F from the west coast direct to Europe trumps the JFK connection. Am I reading you both right?

If i had a choice between SQ C and UA F same orig/dest i would pick SQ C.

If i had a choice between UA F non stop and a long UA domestic + SQ C with a connection in the US i would pick UA F.

LH F SFO-FRA (388), FCT and a quick hop to ZHR.

LH F SFO-FRA (388), FCT and a quick hop to ZHR.

Well yes, that would be the ideal, but VERY rare for an award, even within the 14 day window.

This....
If i had a choice between SQ C and UA F same orig/dest i would pick SQ C.

If i had a choice between UA F non stop and a long UA domestic + SQ C with a connection in the US i would pick UA F.

Are you trying to use the FCT in FRA? I believe Greg45 asked that same question. If yes then going to FRA makes sense.

I would look for LAX-ZRH direct on LX in F. I agree though that connecting on the East coast of the US breaks the trip up too much to get a decent rest, movie and meal.

Are you trying to use the FCT in FRA? I believe Greg45 asked that same question. If yes then going to FRA makes sense.

I would look for LAX-ZRH direct on LX in F. I agree though that connecting on the East coast of the US breaks the trip up too much to get a decent rest, movie and meal.

I would like to use the FCT (and was planning on it), but would be willing to drop it if it makes my life more miserable (for instance having to go LAX-MUC-FRA-ZRH which seems ridiculous). If the LAX-ZRH or SFO-ZRH flights opened up in F, I would jump on it I think even though I would lose FCT access. If LAX-MUC or SFO-MUC opened up in F, I think I would take those as well and dump the FCT to make the journey LAX/SFO-MUC-ZRH.

I'm not a huge fan of the east coast connection for exactly the reasons you state, but it is unfortunately what I had to work with. And if I'm going to do it, I might as well do it in SQ J :D

Well, test #1 has arisen. LH F from DFW (old F on 333) has opened up for my date, however, it requires an overnight at DFW (the LAX-DFW flight on UA that doesn't violate the MCT has no available award space on the departure date). So, forced overnight in DFW + 10hrs in LH F, or ps F + SQ J. Decisions, decisions....

Well, test #1 has arisen. LH F from DFW (old F on 333) has opened up for my date, however, it requires an overnight at DFW (the LAX-DFW flight on UA that doesn't violate the MCT has no available award space on the departure date). So, forced overnight in DFW + 10hrs in LH F, or ps F + SQ J. Decisions, decisions....

UA F is a poor man's J. SQ J is great but even in SQ F Suites, I would think twice. SQ @ JFK T-4 is a terrible experience. The lounge is the VS Clubhouse. Our first time was great, but the 2nd time it was so crowded we abandoned it for the LX J Lounge. Lounges are pre-security. Security is a zoo and the SQ boarding process third world-like chaotic. And JFK-FRA is only 7 hour so you aren't going to get much sleep.

Even with the overnight, I would go for the DFW LH First flight. Sure it's a little dated, but I still find the old F quite comfy and with only a max of 7 other F pax, the service will be better than SQ J. Not sure how much connect time you have in FRA but if it is more than 90 minutes, I would still trek over to the amazing FCT. If less, the FCLs are almost as nice.

UA F is a poor man's J. SQ J is great but even in SQ F Suites, I would think twice. SQ @ JFK T-4 is a terrible experience. The lounge is the VX Clubhouse. Our first time was great, but the 2nd time it was so crowded we abandoned it for the LX J Lounge. Lounges are pre-security. Security is a zoo and the SQ boarding process third world-like chaotic. And JFK-FRA is only 7 hour so you aren't going to get much sleep.

Even with the overnight, I would go for the DFW LH First flight. Sure it's a little dated, but I still find the old F quite comfy and with only a max of 7 other F pax, the service will be better than SQ J. Not sure how much connect time you have in FRA but if it is more than 90 minutes, I would still trek over to the amazing FCT. If less, the FCLs are almost as nice.

Thanks for the opinion. Time to see what kind of fee I will get hit with. There is a ticket reissue fee waiver on my PNR, but I don't know if it will cover the close in fees.

I've got oodles of time in FRA before I connect up to ZRH to catch my LX F flight. LH F on the inbound will also allow my to get a day use room at the Kempinski in Frankfurt as well.

Thanks for the opinion. Time to see what kind of fee I will get hit with. There is a ticket reissue fee waiver on my PNR, but I don't know if it will cover the close in fees.

I've got oodles of time in FRA before I connect up to ZRH to catch my LX F flight. LH F on the inbound will also allow my to get a day use room at the Kempinski in Frankfurt as well.

One way to eliminate that overnight would be to buy a ticket on a SNA/LAX-DFW one way morning flight and change your award ticket to open jaw DFW-FRA-ZRH-LAX.

One way to eliminate that overnight would be to buy a ticket on a SNA/LAX-DFW one way morning flight and change your award ticket to open jaw DFW-FRA-ZRH-LAX.

Yep. Thought about that, but having to buy 2xOW (my wife and I) tickets would end up costing more than the overnight. The time isn't so much of a concern since both days are weekends.

While LH's 380 is nice, it's not very "special" like the SQ or EK 380 (SQ Only in F)

Take the LH non stop from LAX. Chances are it will be the new bed/seat config. The LH380 seats are NO DIFFERENT then the seats on the 748 or the new 340 seats. The only thing you get with the 380 is the big bathroom. (wow)

I'm writing this 3 hours after take off on the EK380 sitting in the cafe/bar w my computer. Gonna take a shower in 10 min and get 6-8 hours sleep. Now this is a 380 that they really made nice not only for F but for J as well (but they can't use the showers in J)

Stick w the non stop

While LH's 380 is nice, it's not very "special" like the SQ or EK 380 (SQ Only in F)

Take the LH non stop from LAX. Chances are it will be the new bed/seat config. The LH380 seats are NO DIFFERENT then the seats on the 748 or the new 340 seats. The only thing you get with the 380 is the big bathroom. (wow)


The 380 may not be overly "special", but it would be a first for me, and it is guaranteed to have new F. It is also sitting at F8 right now for my desired departure date...so fairly good chance at F awards opening, but it could be a while.

And yes, the 744 LAX non-stop would be nice, but sadly, neither have opened up F awards for my date. And in fact, I'm not sure either will, they are both decently booked - F4 and F2.

Edit:
OK - change made to LAX-DFW-FRA. I think I just got the most surly UA agent I have ever talked to. Because I am in the 21 day window, I wanted to make sure that the waiver on the PNR covered the close in booking fee. He started getting really rude and asking why the waiver was even there. I explained and he tried to tell me that kind of waiver usually only covers one change (even though I have already made multiple changes). I replied that that is not what the waiver states and I all I wanted to confirm was that it also covered the close in fee. His response was something along the lines of "fine, I'll go ahead and waive it because I don't want to argue and I just want to get thru this". At the end he asked if I would be making more changes and I said it depended on if better award availability came up since LH tends to release award availability very late :rolleyes:

I am almost positive I got the ICC (based on the accent). Should have called a bit earlier to get Honolulu. I hope he doesn't have the ability to delete the waiver that the service director earlier put in....

The 380 may not be overly "special", but it would be a first for me, and it is guaranteed to have new F. It is also sitting at F8 right now for my desired departure date...so fairly good chance at F awards opening, but it could be a while.

And yes, the 744 LAX non-stop would be nice, but sadly, neither have opened up F awards for my date. And in fact, I'm not sure either will, they are both decently booked - F4 and F2.

Edit:
OK - change made to LAX-DFW-FRA. I think I just got the most surly UA agent I have ever talked to. Because I am in the 21 day window, I wanted to make sure that the waiver on the PNR covered the close in booking fee. He started getting really rude and asking why the waiver was even there. I explained and he tried to tell me that kind of waiver usually only covers one change (even though I have already made multiple changes). I replied that that is not what the waiver states and I all I wanted to confirm was that it also covered the close in fee. His response was something along the lines of "fine, I'll go ahead and waive it because I don't want to argue and I just want to get thru this". At the end he asked if I would be making more changes and I said it depended on if better award availability came up since LH tends to release award availability very late :rolleyes:

I am almost positive I got the ICC (based on the accent). Should have called a bit earlier to get Honolulu. I hope he doesn't have the ability to delete the waiver that the service director earlier put in....

What kind of waiver? 1K / plat can make as many changes as they want. (you said the 380 is showing F8? They will open it up 2-4 days out (they usually do as long as it is F6 or more
Why did you need a waiver? (I found the best time to call was 4-5PM Dubai time (8am NY time - always got a good AMERICAN agent

What kind of waiver? 1K / plat can make as many changes as they want. (you said the 380 is showing F8? They will open it up 2-4 days out (they usually do as long as it is F6 or more
Why did you need a waiver? (I found the best time to call was 4-5PM Dubai time (8am NY time - always got a good AMERICAN agent

Waiver was added to PNR because I was given patently false information when I first booked the award. When I tried to make a change based on that information, I was told there was a fee. After explaining to a Service Director that I was lied to, they added a permanent waiver to the itin.

And yes, I had read all the rules regarding award change fees, but this particular change seemed to be free. I was originally told that since I was booked on an F award with some C segments, I could change those C segments to F if they became available without a fee. No change in routing, no change in award type or number of miles, just going from C to F on the same plane. Service Director ended up blaming it on the recent merger and a lot of misinformation flying around.