India-based Airlines - Stupid question - why do SpiceJet/IndiGo etc do not have interline agreement?

All,

I am based in PNQ and really really hate driving to Mumbai to catch my international flights and vice-versa on my way back.

One option is to take the evening Jet flight to Mumbai, but it leaves too early (5:30 PMish I believe) and results in a long lay-over in Mumbai.

Second option is to take the Jet flight to Delhi - that leaves a little later - around 7:00 PMish, a shorter layover, but still a bit longer.

However, I see SpiceJet and Indigo have later flights to Delhi or Chennai from where I can get on to BA flights. Which brings up the question - why would these airlines not have interlining agreements? Does it involve alignment of systems and processes and the cost outweighs the benefits and the market too small as they are happy catering to the domestic customer?

Just trying to understand.

They're LCCs. Typically, they don't even do connections between two of their own flights. Interlining with another airline has costs associated with it, that don't work in an LCC model (unless you're called Jet Whatever, then it's all about HighCost and LoFares).

All,

I am based in PNQ and really really hate driving to Mumbai to catch my international flights and vice-versa on my way back.

One option is to take the evening Jet flight to Mumbai, but it leaves too early (5:30 PMish I believe) and results in a long lay-over in Mumbai.

Second option is to take the Jet flight to Delhi - that leaves a little later - around 7:00 PMish, a shorter layover, but still a bit longer.

However, I see SpiceJet and Indigo have later flights to Delhi or Chennai from where I can get on to BA flights. Which brings up the question - why would these airlines not have interlining agreements? Does it involve alignment of systems and processes and the cost outweighs the benefits and the market too small as they are happy catering to the domestic customer?

Just trying to understand.

its very rare to see lcc airlines have interline agreement with other airlines....

what time is your international flight????

I usually take BA flights which leave around 2:30am ish from both BOM & DEL

I usually take BA flights which leave around 2:30am ish from both BOM & DEL

So then the G8 flight is probably too late for you...

Why don't you just book it as seperate tickets?

1. Why is it too late?
2. Sorry - separate tickets is a minefield when not if there are irrops.

1. Why is it too late? Gets in a 1:40 AM... not enough time to connect to a 2:30 AM international departure

2. Sorry - separate tickets is a minefield when not if there are irrops.
When there are 2 flights leaving within 5 minutes of each other, you can always buy a refundable ticket on both and take whichever one is on-time...

Regardless, keep in mind that you will have to change terminals at DEL if you don't take AI or 9W.

Thanks. The advice to buy refundable tix though maybe feasible, does not meet my real need. The reason I like to fly out of Pune and not Mumbai as I want to relax a bit after my checkin. If I still have to worry about baggage and refundable tix etc, I'll stick to 9W or drive to Mumbai.

It has been explained before that once an airline is a signatory to MITA, it can interline with every signatory of MITA. For LCC's and for regional airlines it may not make sense to sign MITA agreement, as it's not free.
If an airline is not interested in being a feeder to other airlines, it makes little sense for it to sign MITA.

AN airline may also sign individual agreements with specific airline for interlining.

Strictly speaking MITA provisions for interlining apply only to a single itinerary. Two separate tickets do not automatically allow interlining.

Strictly speaking MITA provisions for interlining apply only to a single itinerary. Two separate tickets do not automatically allow interlining.
9W just told me that they have stopped merging 9W-9W itineraries too now. All segments MUST be on the same ticket number to allow through baggage check-in.

Air India Express had a daily flight Pune to Mumbai that came in from DXB on some days and SIN (i think on other days).

departure was at midnight from PNQ arrival 30 mins later intl terminal. Very convenient and not too expensive.

used to be surprisingly full, with connecting passengers i think.

One of the few LCCs that interline is JetBlue(B6), mainly out of JFK. But its just a oneway street, B6 only tries to get traffic from other airlines onto their flights. Nice idea, especially in JFK where many international airlines land and have no option to get their pax on flights into the hinterland.

Could be a concept for India too, but which gateway has easy transfer possibilities for LCC<>Longhaul? BLR maybe? DEL & BOM are definitely out...

9W just told me that they have stopped merging 9W-9W itineraries too now. All segments MUST be on the same ticket number to allow through baggage check-in.

It could be that that's the official line (help cover their exposure in the event of eventualities) but individual stations / agents still might do it in practice.

It could be that that's the official line (help cover their exposure in the event of eventualities) but individual stations / agents still might do it in practice.
No I called up the airport manager in Goa to confirm (Cause I'm flying GOI-BOM / BOM-BRU) on two separate tickets and she said it's possible they don't do it anymore since it's likely that the bag will be misplaced in BOM.

No I called up the airport manager in Goa to confirm (Cause I'm flying GOI-BOM / BOM-BRU) on two separate tickets and she said it's possible they don't do it anymore since it's likely that the bag will be misplaced in BOM.
Well, with the way things change (usually for the worse at Jet) I'm not surprised.

However, it was just a couple of months ago and actually at GOI that the excellent check-in agent happily tagged bags without being asked.

A bunch of us checked in together, but were headed to different places. The agent saw and overheard us trying to coordinate bags and asked if she could help. Next thing you know, she had happily tagged my cousin's bag all the way to Narita, even though GOI-BOM was on JetKonnect (9W) and BOM-NRT was on All Nippon.

It's one thing not to interline when the flights are on separate carriers and separate tickets. But not to allow Jet-to-Jet? That's a new one.


And that's brave of you to do GOI-BRU on Jet. What are you going to do for the delightful 6 hour-layover on the outbound and the even more delightful 8 hours on the return?

And that's brave of you to do GOI-BRU on Jet. What are you going to do for the delightful 6 hour-layover on the outbound and the even more delightful 8 hours on the return?
Soak in the lovely sights, sounds and smells at BOM. Have no other option really.

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Ugh.

That - if you ask me - is going to turn out to be Jet's greatest folly : ignoring the vast domestic market and chasing after the backpack-toting London to Bangkok trash instead.

In the meantime, the foreign competition gets stronger and stronger. And all Jet are doing is asking what colour bow they would like.

The carrier that issues the initial tag is liable for any charges due delay or misplacement of the baggage down the line. I can understand why 9W wants to avoid taking liability for situations that are beyond their control, MCT comes to mind. Why people think they are super smart by avoiding to use a TA is beyond me. Penny wise pound foolish.

9W just told me that they have stopped merging 9W-9W itineraries too now. All segments MUST be on the same ticket number to allow through baggage check-in.

Technically, it's withing the rules. They are not prohibited from doing a through check-in, and they are not obliged to do it either.
If baggage transfer system at Indian airports is not up to handling transfers between two flights, it increases chances of your baggage not arriving with you.
Why would you buy two separate tickets on the same airline for one trip?
Each fare allows you and your bags transport from one point to another.
Why should the airline assume liability for your baggage after your first trip is over and before the second trip has begun.
On an occasional basis an airline could take the risk. Excessive use of a facility that the airline is not bound to provide is the surest way to end it.

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Ugh.

That - if you ask me - is going to turn out to be Jet's greatest folly : ignoring the vast domestic market and chasing after the backpack-toting London to Bangkok trash instead.

In the meantime, the foreign competition gets stronger and stronger. And all Jet are doing is asking what colour bow they would like.

You need to start thing about real issues, not what you want.
What you want is not necessarily the best thing for the airline to do. @:-)

No I called up the airport manager in Goa to confirm (Cause I'm flying GOI-BOM / BOM-BRU) on two separate tickets and she said it's possible they don't do it anymore since it's likely that the bag will be misplaced in BOM.

Could you not have bought one GOI-BOM-BRU ticket?

The carrier that issues the initial tag is liable for any charges due delay or misplacement of the baggage down the line.

Incorrect.

The delivering carrier is responsible for any costs, even if they never actually received the bag in the first place.

I've successfully gotten compensation in the past from Lufthansa even though my original itinerary was entirely KLM and I was rebooked on LH only after KLM cancelled a flight and left my bags in Amsterdam.

LH was the delivering carrier and paid me first needs compensation as well as bore all costs for the delivery.

Could you not have bought one GOI-BOM-BRU ticket?
Nope.. BOM-BRU-BOM was booked by a company in Belgium and I booked the GOI-BOM-GOI ticket myself.

The carrier that issues the initial tag is liable for any charges due delay or misplacement of the baggage down the line. I can understand why 9W wants to avoid taking liability for situations that are beyond their control, MCT comes to mind. Why people think they are super smart by avoiding to use a TA is beyond me. Penny wise pound foolish.
Whilst mostly true, that is a rather generalised statement.

Here we're talking of a rather straightforward Jet-to-Jet connection with connecting times of 6 hours or more.

GOI-BOM-BRU is also a routing that Jet sell themselves (but if you search the schedule, jet.com will say they don't fly it).

The carrier that issues the initial tag is liable for any charges due delay or misplacement of the baggage down the line. I can understand why 9W wants to avoid taking liability for situations that are beyond their control, MCT comes to mind. Why people think they are super smart by avoiding to use a TA is beyond me. Penny wise pound foolish.
When one's baggage is not delivered due to whatever reason, one does not go to the carrier that assumed the custody of one's bags, at the start. One goes to the carrier at the end. It would be silly to expect the customer to approach the first carrier.

Incorrect.
The delivering carrier is responsible for any costs, even if they never actually received the bag in the first place.

I've successfully gotten compensation in the past from Lufthansa even though my original itinerary was entirely KLM and I was rebooked on LH only after KLM cancelled a flight and left my bags in Amsterdam.

LH was the delivering carrier and paid me first needs compensation as well as bore all costs for the delivery.
There is no mechanism to settle such claims among the airlines involved, which could be more than two?

Air India Express had a daily flight Pune to Mumbai that came in from DXB on some days and SIN (i think on other days).

departure was at midnight from PNQ arrival 30 mins later intl terminal. Very convenient and not too expensive.

used to be surprisingly full, with connecting passengers i think.

Lands at 0130. Too late for most of the connections.

I could be wrong but never seen pnq-bom being sold on that.

I also had one of the funniest/frustrating experiences on that flight when I landed in PNQ on way from DXB. As we were trying to enter the terminal in PNQ late in the night with kids sleeping, the staff wanted to check our boarding cards !!! First time ever in 15+ years of flying someone has asked for BP after deplaning. I got irritated as I was not sure where they were, but they were adamant. So I said I left them in the seat pocket, knowing fully well that they now would not let me go back into the plane :-). They had to relent. Bizarre.

First time ever in 15+ years of flying someone has asked for BP after deplaning.
It's standard procedure to check BP of pax who are departing a flight that is making an onward journey.

I guess it's a coincidence that I have never taken a flight which was making an onward journey.

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Yep.

Its also long been the norm to check when the flight originated abroad.

Eg: I was on the BOM-GOI leg of a flight that originated in DXB. Of course, they never tell you to retain your boarding pass. So, of course, one of the more retarded members of our group left her boarding pass on the plane. And then, of course, they just waved her through.

The whole trip was a series of "why even bother" when it came to the checks and forms.

I guess it's a coincidence that I have never taken a flight which was making an onward journey.

I have seen this only on AI.

Wow. I thought it was something to do with that flight and Pune staff. Has anyone gone thru similar checking anywhere outside India. What is the rationale? To ensure the less gifted ones do not get off at an earlier stop? Or a security reason - that there is no unaccompanied baggage in the hold?

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I have, but not in a while. It was more common when multi-stop flights were more common and you exited the aircraft at the stopover airport.

On Swissair. Flying BOM-HKG, they checked boarding passes at HKG to ensure only those disembarking in HKG got off the plane first, since the flight continued to Seoul.

On Zambia Airways, they used to check your BP on exiting the plane and give you a green laminated card to hold on to if you were continuing to the next stop.

Most countries now have a document check at first point of entry rule, so that eliminates the need to check BPs and segregate people. But we still have the outdated "international connector" concept so there's no escape. Australia is the one other country I know of where domestic and international passengers were mixed on the local leg of the flight.

Sorry - but I'm trying to understand the rationale of checking bp in pnq on a dxb-pnq-bom flight. If someone has documents to enter pnq they have documents to enter bom and vice-versa.

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Seee, that's the first problem, looking for rationale :)

It was likely to separate the domestic passengers from the international ones (never mind the logic or the absence of it), because the ones continuing to Dubai should have had their passports exit-stamped at PNQ already.

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Never mind what I wrote above - tried to edit but it won't let me.

What I wanted to say is that it was to ensure you exited where you were supposed to.

Sorry - but I'm trying to understand the rationale of checking bp in pnq on a dxb-pnq-bom flight. If someone has documents to enter pnq they have documents to enter bom and vice-versa.

I check in a time bomb in a bag set to go off after flight leaves pine for Mumbai. Only way I can do this is to be traveling to Mumbai. However, I don't wish to die, so I try to get off in pine. Hence the check. Also the pax remaining on board are also counted, just in case someone pays dxb pnq fare and decides to take a chance and continue onwards to mumbai.

Or the third case where the pax is a stupid clueless idiot, who has no clue what happening around him , is not listening to the announcements and gets confused where he I and where he has to go.

I could be wrong but never seen pnq-bom being sold on that.

PNQ-BOM segment is AIX flight: so can be booked only in AIX website.

there are some AIX flights codeshared with AI nos. these can be booked on AI site directly.

technically they dont allow/handle connections to mainline AI. But in practice when this flight lands in BOM very common to see an aunty standing and shouting "Air india pax for Timbuctou..."


Wow. I thought it was something to do with that flight and Pune staff.

No. it is systemwide on AI. Jet Airways also does it occasionally: but most of time they are beyond caring. its a disaster waiting to happen.

Sorry - but I'm trying to understand the rationale of checking bp in pnq on a dxb-pnq-bom flight. If someone has documents to enter pnq they have documents to enter bom and vice-versa.

from what i have been told, the BP check was introduced after their Canada flight was bombed in 1980's. Their flight was DEL-LHR-Toronto-Montreal-LHR-DEL. Someone had checked in bags in Toronto for DEL and gotten off the plane in Montreal where the cabin crew also changed.

the BP check is to prevent these sort of things.

Which is why Jet should be more stringent. Jet is not consistent with these checks.

Eg: I was on the BOM-GOI leg of a flight that originated in DXB. Of course, they never tell you to retain your boarding pass. So, of course, one of the more retarded members of our group left her boarding pass on the plane. And then, of course, they just waved her through.

The whole trip was a series of "why even bother" when it came to the checks and forms.

Job creation :)

Sorry - but I'm trying to understand the rationale of checking bp in pnq on a dxb-pnq-bom flight. If someone has documents to enter pnq they have documents to enter bom and vice-versa.
The first is for security reasons as shahadil posted above.

Second is because a DXB-PNQ-BOM routing is sometimes cheaper than DXB-PNQ. So they don't want you buying a cheaper routing and getting off early..

Thanks all for your responses. I know now why LCCs do not have interline agreements (that was the main topic of this thread). And I should either stick to taking the 9W to DEL from PNQ and get on a BA flight there, or just bite the bullet and go to Mumbai and catch the flight.

After that it went severely OT (and I also contributed to that). I learnt that the BP checking after deplaning could be due to security - so will stop cribbing about it.

We can probably close this thread now.

There is no mechanism to settle such claims among the airlines involved, which could be more than two?

Only under limited circumstances and require an administrative hassle that in most cases outweighs the cost of the claim.

Believe me, this regulation has been the bane of my existence for many years, especially with passengers who thinks that bags transfer themselves between LHR and LGW and that they deserve compensation for the failure to do so.