Flying Blue (Air France, KLM, and Other Partners) - FB and the mysteries of geographical asymmetry

05-07-2012 DL 3021 NYC CHI I 150% 1110 level miles
Special elite miles bonus 100% 740

08-07-2012 DL 3012 CHI NYC I 150% 1107 level miles
Special elite miles bonus 100% 738

Need I say more? :D
(PS: Mind you, with all the taxiing one does at JFK, the real difference may well be more than those three little miles! :) )

[PS: and before anyone asks, this was between the exact same airports - JFK and ORD, in fact, even between the exact same gates! ;) )

That is FB's own version of special relativity. ;)

BTW, did AZ sort you out (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/alitalia-millemiglia/1361870-going-round-circles.html) in the end?

I once had this one:

DL 2013 EWR ATL T 756 miles
DL 2024 ATL EWR T 765 miles

-- Henry

05-07-2012 DL 3021 NYC CHI I 150% 1110 level miles
Special elite miles bonus 100% 740

08-07-2012 DL 3012 CHI NYC I 150% 1107 level miles
Special elite miles bonus 100% 738

Need I say more? :D
(PS: Mind you, with all the taxiing one does at JFK, the real difference may well be more than those three little miles! :) )

[PS: and before anyone asks, this was between the exact same airports - JFK and ORD, in fact, even between the exact same gates! ;) )

They must be little indeed!!! In fact, they must only be 2/3 of a mile!!

@irishguy28, ah yes, I only work on level miles and those obey a different gravity law! ;)

@NickB. AZ did not (at least not entirely) but DL did. This all proved fairly complex but worked sort of well at the end. Basically, itinerary was AZ-DL-DL outbound and DL-AZ-AZ return.

(1) in advance I called multiple times without success for over a month, then followed the suggestion (on the AZ board) of writing to the AZ FB people who were reactive, got my ticket reinstated on the outbound but didn't do it on the inbound. When I questionned it, they claimed the return part had always been in Y which was entirely wrong (I did offer to forward the confirmation email or give them its date and time of sending so that they can check it in their own records).

(2) 30 hours before the flight and then again 24, I tried OLCI which was a total joke. Tried checking in on AZ, which said this was handled by a partner and took me to the AF page, which took me to the KLM page, which said it was handled by a partner and took me to the DL page, which showed my itinerary but said check in was handled by a partner and took me to the AZ page which gave me an error message! It still didn't work at t-23, 22, 21... 6, 5, 4....

(3) At t-3 hours when I tried again, at the time I reached the DL page it still wouldn't check me in but told me my DL-operated FCO-JFK flight was scheduled to be late (not much to be honest) and my itinerary was eligible for change for free. So I was able to click on the itinerary change button and offered basically every routing from NCE to ORD available on the day in business. I tried one which didn't work (maybe because of using an AF operated segment?) but it worked on the NCE-JFK-ORD which in fairness was a better itinerary than my original one (only one stop and left 3 hours before to arrive at the same time plus fully flat beds on the long haul). Chose it happily, got the last row of J on check in, went 1hr later to reprint and was able to move to 1A which had freed in the meantime.

(4) Went to the airport and went to the DL counter to check that the DL system was communicating with the AZ system to ensure AZ wouldn't cancel my itinerary as a no show (since my first flight was meant to be AZ-operated but was replaced by an all-DL outbound). Agent was nice and helpful and then glanced at my itinerary and asked why I had one segment in Y. I explained the original confirmation showed all J/F (and showed it as I had it on me) and that after flight went missing then were reinstated in Y and then one only changed in F. She did the computer tapping thing and have me back an itinerary entirely in J and F, earning her my profused thanks and deserved big smiles. She also found that I was on apparently booked on multiple itineraries including some leaving at different times on the Sunday and, even more exciting, going to different places (Sydney to be precise which was most tempting). Sadly, she deleted the 'wrong' ones ;)

(5) Flight went great, a lady across the aisle from me listened to a short video of her dogs barking before taking and exclaimed 'I love you' to the little beasts which was most entertaining, DL flat beds are excellent, flight attendant apparently liked me but not my 'English' accent and attempted to correct it and transform my France into friends and my can't's into Kents, etc. I pretended to fall asleep to escape her lessons but aren't a good pretender and fell asleep for good in a few minutes. At JFK, someone decided mine was a 'short' connection and gave me the corresponding red tag, I ended up being rushed in front of all queues while US citizens were held upstairs (second time in a row it happened to me, last time at T1 this time at T2/3. Worked great both time, had it at ORD a few months ago too). Flight from JFK to ORD got one of the fastest taxis I ever had at JFK and we landed about 45 minutes early at ORD.

(6) Next day, my suspicious self had a quick look on my online bookings to check all was still well. AZ booking had not been updated (still showed my pre-changed outbound and economy return), my DL booking had disappeared except from the single ORD-JFK flight (still correctly in F though). Tried calling AZ, was put on hold for about 30 minutes before a recorded messaage told me their computer system was down and I should try again in an hour. In the next few days, I called them again a dozen times, always with the same cycle of waiting and being cut with the same message. Meanwhile, I called DL, told my story to a guy who passed me on to another advising me to tell him the same thing which I did, only to be passed on to a third lady with the same instruction who ended up saying ok I'll reinstate your booking. She did and it showed ok on delta.com but with no class indication on the AZ parts of the itinerary any more, AZ would still not answer, I had too much work to do much about it all anyway.

(7) Check in didn't work on the Saturday, nor on the Sunday. Delta.com would say there was an error, Alitalia would first show my AZ flights but say 'not check in from previous flights' before, a few hours later, not showing my flights any more and passing me on to the airfrance website (see (2) ), airfrance.com would pass me to klm which would say my flight was not open for check in yet. Again, the same was true till I was en route to the airport.

(8) Airport went ok but I was asked why I had changed my original ticket (answer, because you told me to on the computer saying I'd miss my connection otherwise), got checked in for JFK but not beyond and told by the lady that however she could attribute me row 18 or 25 on the second flight if I wanted. I said it sounded very much like economy and I was in business and with 1L preassigned what is more. The lady (otherwise nice by the way) told me I should get ready to 'argue with them' and that 'everything always goes wrong with Italians' and she knew coz she married one (said in a funny way I'm pretty sure! ;) )

(9) ORD-JFK flight was delayed by about 45 minutes but this time no offer of rerouting (in fact, explicitly refused. At that stage I started not looking forward to arguing with the AZ people nor the long wait in Rome and would have much preferred to be rerouted ORD-JFK-NCE or even ORD-AMS-NCE or ORD-CDG-NCE despite the lack of flat beds). Source of delay was a broken hand luggage compartment, and after 45 minutes the maintenance guy finally arrived only to put some duct tape on the faulty bit (about 30 seconds worth), scribble 'do not use' on a piece of paper (add 15 seconds) and put it on with another bit of duct tape (add a final 15 seconds) and exited the plane mumbling 'what do they want me to do about it?!'

(10) Walked T2 to T1 (no problem), went to check in counter and gave my booking confirmation saying DL was not able to print it for me and saying I was supposed to have 1L preassigned. Guy said 'yes you have' then asked if I had changed my booking (explain again) to which he said no problem at all, shouted my name, reference number and whatever over detail about me was available to someone 5 metres further at the luggage counter asking her to give him control of the ticket, first the first coupon and then the second, then printed my boarding cards and wished me a good flight. BTW, for some reason, the JFK-FCO showed 'F' as class which is funny.

(11) Tried the AZ lounge (rubbish) moved to the AF one (still like it) had a nice shower and then went to board and experience AZ's outstanding Magnifica service. More or less everything was head and shoulders above AF and KL - great bed, great mini-cabin with space and privace, great food served course by course from the trolley, great duvet and pillow, great Bulgari toiletry bag full of goodies, great crew (although my attempts to use my limited Italian may have helped), great TVs, etc. Breakfast was only ok but still much less bad than AF's (a bit less good than DL's).

(12) Rest of the trip more or less uneventful. Arrived 5 minutes early in Rome, transfer was very fast and queueless, time in lounge was too long but I managed to get a lounger so could sort of relax and enjoyed their shower. Food minimal to abysmal. Short haul flight to Nice lovely, great food - mix of hot and cold, serving on the 50 minutes flight not all that dissimilar to what AF and KL give on a 4 hour flight to IST (ok a little bit less but certainly much better than what either gives on a 2hr flight) and luggage arrived ok although as usual TSA destroyed my so-called TSA-approved lock. I keep thinking I should send a complaint.

(13) Conclusion: AZ = very rocky road in terms of booking/problems solving but great once you are in the air. I do think they have the best long haul J product in Europe nowadays (followed by TK when on the flat bed. OS has great soft product and notably food but not so great seats, BA has good seats but less good than AZ and the soft product is mediocre at best). If they could beef up their customer assistance (come on, who wants to call a service centre a dozen times from abroad - from hotels, even 1800 numbers have a nominal fee - to always be put on hold and then cut with a 'computers are down' message??? And who wants to call a dozen time in Europe, be told every time he'll be sorted and called back and never see it happen?) they would, in my mind, be industry leader in Europe without a doubt.

Seamless travel, then. :)
(13) Conclusion: AZ = very rocky road in terms of booking/problems solving but great once you are in the air.Not just in the air but also at the airport, usually. I have personally usually found AZ airport personnel very helpful in irrops.

It is the back office systems which are rather shambolic.

Seamless travel, then. :)
Not just in the air but also at the airport, usually. I have personally usually found AZ airport personnel very helpful in irrops.

It is the back office systems which are rather shambolic.

Indeed, airport personnel was very nice this time (although I once had an experience at JFK which is one reason why I was fearing the worst after the incomplete check in at ORD). However, the AZ lounges are not very good. The ones in FCO are comfortable but food is truly minimal and I don't like the tended bar system, especially as at relatively unbusy times (such as when I was there) the attendants sometimes disappear for long periods of time and I'm not cheeky enough to shout or to reach behind the bar to help myself to a bottle (and harder to do a coffee which is what I was consuming lots of). Still, I agree with you the only issue is back office and then I suspect it's more 'systems' than people. Still, overall, we all have to complain often enough about things getting worse in the airline industry to point out what I think has been a generally great transformation by AZ over the past few years.