Southwest Rapid Rewards - Did Southwest Airlines really have an airplane reposessed?

I just saw a rerun (first time for me) called Airplane Repo. It was about a firm called Sage Popovich that repos airplanes. On the show they were repo-ing Gulfstreams, Lears and the like.

As I looked a bit more about the company on the Internet I found this web site from the Discovery Channel

http://press.discovery.com/emea/dsc/programs/airplane-repo/

The above web site says that Sage Popovich repo-Ed airplanes from Southwest and American Airlines. Is that true and if it is true, what were the circumstances of the repo?

I just saw a rerun (first time for me) called Airplane Repo. It was about a firm called Sage Popovich that repos airplanes. On the show they were repo-ing Gulfstreams, Lears and the like.

As I looked a bit more about the company on the Internet I found this web site from the Discovery Channel

http://press.discovery.com/emea/dsc/programs/airplane-repo/

The above web site says that Sage Popovich repo-Ed airplanes from Southwest and American Airlines. Is that true and if it is true, what were the circumstances of the repo?

Hmm....

Maybe he is repossessing the planes that Southwest already sold to other airlines like their old 737-200 series. ???

Airplane repo sounds like a cool business.

If the airline does not cooperate, do you sneak into a hangar at night and hot-wire the thing? :D:D

Or perhaps those aircraft which were repossessed were leased from another company that didn't meet its obligations?

Airplane repo sounds like a cool business.

If the airline does not cooperate, do you sneak into a hangar at night and hot-wire the thing? :D:D

It was a very cool show. I don't see a rerun of it coming up in the next two weeks, but watch for it on the Discovery Channel.

The main security over the corporate planes was the fence line. Once they got past the fence line, these $20m+ airplanes are not locked. Not even sure they have a lock. There is no "key" in the cockpit. If you are in, flip the right switches and up come the engines.

Further searching for Sage Popovich say that they repo-ed commerical airplanes right from CDG (Paris) and other major airports. They showed up at the airport, showed their paperwork and took an MD-80. They have a Power of Attorney from the lender. In the case of CDG, they flew it to Iceland, added more fuel, then onward to their home base in Gary, Indiana (GYY).

Other searching says that they have been shot at on departure. As you can imagine, taking a plane from a third world country can be a bit tricky.

The line says "Swiping CORPORATE airliners from Southwest and American"...I wonder if they mean corporate jets from the executives, like Lears and Citations etc. I would love to see them try to swipe an airliner in circulation!! Unless it was grounded it would be mighty hard to keep up with it. I suppose they could try swiping it in the wee hours.

Sounds like one way to get rid of the unwanted -500s still in the fleet!

I just saw a rerun (first time for me) called Airplane Repo. It was about a firm called Sage Popovich that repos airplanes. On the show they were repo-ing Gulfstreams, Lears and the like.

As I looked a bit more about the company on the Internet I found this web site from the Discovery Channel

http://press.discovery.com/emea/dsc/programs/airplane-repo/

The above web site says that Sage Popovich repo-Ed airplanes from Southwest and American Airlines. Is that true and if it is true, what were the circumstances of the repo?

It sounds like a case of promotional embellishment.

What I suspect this guy and his outfit are actually doing (in addition to their actual repo work) is providing the non-SWA pilots to ferry newly-retired SWA aircraft (-300s and -500s, owned, or coming off-lease) from SWA airports to various airports out west where the aircraft will wait to find new owners/lessees, get parted-out, or be broken up for scrap. If that's the case, characterizing these types of flights as "repo" flights is disingenuous at best.

I know that AAL has ferried many of their retired aircraft to Roswell, NM (ROW, check out a Google satellite photo to count them all), and SWA has sent some there as well, plus other desert airports.

Other searching says that they have been shot at on departure. As you can imagine, taking a plane from a third world country can be a bit tricky.

Now THAT I'd like to see on this new WN "reality show."

interesting. i recall being told that a very small judegement creditor had a JAL 747 latched up in Alaska on a re-fuel since JAL failed to pay on the judgement the person had...it might not have been JAL but the point is, there are many types of creditors out there than can resort to this type of action to seize assets by order in cases with entities fail to pay. i recall the judgement need not be huge to take some rather extrodinary enforcement proceedings.

interesting. i recall being told that a very small judegement creditor had a JAL 747 latched up in Alaska on a re-fuel since JAL failed to pay on the judgement the person had...it might not have been JAL but the point is, there are many types of creditors out there than can resort to this type of action to seize assets by order in cases with entities fail to pay. i recall the judgement need not be huge to take some rather extrodinary enforcement proceedings.

I Googled the guy's name (Nick Popovich), and one of the hits was a pretty nicely detailed article in Salon from a couple of years ago on his outfit and the work they do. The article mentions he has something like 60-125 folks out in the field who work with him, and I imagine most of them are pilots, since Popovich certainly can't fly everything himself. I suspect that it's this same cadre of pilots who also end up ferrying retired airliners to their desert parking spots when they're not actually repossessing aircraft for financial purposes, which (as per the article) seem to be mostly general aviation type aircraft, bizjets, and a few airline-type aircraft operated by non-airline entities.

http://www.salon.com/2009/06/06/lear_jet_repo_man/

What I suspect this guy and his outfit are actually doing (in addition to their actual repo work) is providing the non-SWA pilots to ferry newly-retired SWA aircraft (-300s and -500s, owned, or coming off-lease) from SWA airports to various airports out west where the aircraft will wait to find new owners/lessees, get parted-out, or be broken up for scrap.

SWA pilots don't take the planes to the storage facilities?

SWA pilots don't take the planes to the storage facilities?

They may have at one point in our history, but in more recent years I seem to vaguely recall them being flown by others, i.e. pilots who retired at (then) age 60, etc. I'd have to double check, so don't quote me on that.

It may well be that WN had assets seized...not for late payments on the aircraft itself, but in judgement or other debts..perhaps the 13 milliion they owed in fines for FAA violations awhile back..who knows. This I know for sure: the wouldn't publish the fact. It may well be true, but "proprietary information"

SWA pilots don't take the planes to the storage facilities?

A least with DL taking over FL's 717s, the transfer can (or at least should) occur via Tug.

What is the name of the airplane bone yard / storage area near Tucson Arizona? Can you see it on Google? Can you tour it on the ground ?


I know that AAL has ferried many of their retired aircraft to Roswell, NM (ROW, check out a Google satellite photo to count them all), and SWA has sent some there as well, plus other desert airports.

What is the name of the airplane bone yard / storage area near Tucson Arizona? Can you see it on Google? Can you tour it on the ground ?

IIRC, the one near TUS (actually at the Air Force Base, DMA) is AMARC and as it's mostly military and they don't do tours.

You might find the link below helpful, as it covers all the various desert spots where airliners go to await their fate. Maybe someone over there knows if any of the various sites are open to tours, unoffical or otherwise. I'd imagine just about any of these sites are viewable from Google satellite.

http://www.cactuswings.blogspot.com/

It may well be that WN had assets seized...not for late payments on the aircraft itself, but in judgement or other debts..perhaps the 13 milliion they owed in fines for FAA violations awhile back..who knows. This I know for sure: the wouldn't publish the fact. It may well be true, but "proprietary information"

Nonsense, with all due respect...

One thing I know for sure is that in my 30+ years here, I'm not aware of anything remotely of the sort, and I'm in an operational department that would know. Even if there had been, it almost certainly would have made the news.

I still think the cable TV network's promotion of their series using "Southwest" and "repo" in the same sentence is unabashed embellishment of their TV show, and directed at folks who can't discern the difference in "missions" between a routine re-positioning of a retired aircraft to the desert, versus a true repossession of an aircraft on behalf of a lender or lessor due to an operator's poor financial condition. Just because XYZ Temp Pilot Staffing Inc. may provide pilots for both types of missions doesn't support the conclusion that every flight they staff is an actual repossession for the customarily understood financial reasons.

I mean, really now...

What is the name of the airplane bone yard / storage area near Tucson Arizona? Can you see it on Google? Can you tour it on the ground ?

You're probably thinking of Pinal Air Park in Marana. It's locked up tighter than Tom Thumb's .... I've been out there onto the flight line and it's an interesting experience to get out there. The armed (with machine guns, IIRC) escorts that drive in front and behind you are fun. Once out there you're free to go with your Evergreen escort wherever you want. Interestingly enough they didn't escort me out...

You can see it on Google, and from the 10 freeway between TUS and PHX. It looks eerie seeing all the NWA tails sticking out of the desert.

If you look at the place on Google Earth, you can see where Evergreen does practice drops with their 747 water bomber.

IIRC, the one near TUS (actually at the Air Force Base, DMA) is AMARC and as it's mostly military and they don't do tours.


You can do tours of the AMARC "Boneyard" via the Pima Air and Space museum (http://www.pimaair.org/view.php?pg=16). It's a really cool place to go visit, even without going on the tour.

What is the name of the airplane bone yard / storage area near Tucson Arizona? Can you see it on Google? Can you tour it on the ground ?

I realize it not Tuscon, but lots of planes parked in Phoenix at GYR, a.net has lots of pics. IIRC, no tours there either.

I would love to see them try to swipe an airliner in circulation!! Unless it was grounded it would be mighty hard to keep up with it. I suppose they could try swiping it in the wee hours.

I think thats how AC got some leased planes back from MX, I also seem to recall RG had (oddly enough an old UA BK return) plane repo'ed at JFK.

the boneyard closest to Tuscon is the Davis Monthan Air Fprce Base (http://www.google.com/search?num=10&hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&q=davis+monthan+boneyard&oq=davis+mon&gs_l=img.1.3.0l6j0i24l4.1794.5134.0.8700.9.9.0.0.0 .0.173.835.7j2.9.0...0.0...1ac.0WVdaXTmgUs&biw=1366&bih=596&sei=jbH9T87YLuig2gXPtNTTCg)

Some years ago I was able to drive around the perimeter during a business trip and there were lots of airplanes to see.

It sounds like a case of promotional embellishment.

What I suspect this guy and his outfit are actually doing (in addition to their actual repo work) is providing the non-SWA pilots to ferry newly-retired SWA aircraft (-300s and -500s, owned, or coming off-lease) from SWA airports to various airports out west where the aircraft will wait to find new owners/lessees, get parted-out, or be broken up for scrap. If that's the case, characterizing these types of flights as "repo" flights is disingenuous at best.

I know that AAL has ferried many of their retired aircraft to Roswell, NM (ROW, check out a Google satellite photo to count them all), and SWA has sent some there as well, plus other desert airports.

OPNLguy,

I must admit...

I think you have answered a question of mine that I've had for quite some time (although, I do admit it is one I have forgotten recently).

I often wondered when I would see airplanes parked at the hangar with the name on the tail "whited-out" how those planes got to the desert (or wherever else they may be bound for).

I always assumed that it was Southwest pilots who flew them to wherever they were going... but then wondered: "How do those pilots get home???"

Having a third part fly the retired planes to their new, or temporary, home makes sense!

Thanks for the info!

I often wondered when I would see airplanes parked at the hangar with the name on the tail "whited-out" how those planes got to the desert (or wherever else they may be bound for).

I always assumed that it was Southwest pilots who flew them to wherever they were going... but then wondered: "How do those pilots get home???"

Having a third party fly the retired planes to their new, or temporary, home makes sense!

Thanks for the info!

Once the tail logo on a decomissioned aircraft (whether sold or returned to a lessor) gets a white stripe, the aircraft is no longer listed on our Operations Specifications (OpSpecs) so that's when they get flown away to their new homes. How their crews get "home" kind of depends in where their "home" is. I think the ROW birds involved taking AA Eagle back to DFW. Most of the other locations involve ground transport back to an another airport, i.e. MHV via LAX or BUR; VCV via ONT; IGM via LAS; and GYR/MZJ/TUS via PHX. I think we've also had a couple of aircraft retire to Maxton, NC, as well.

TUS via PHX.

Why wouldn't the folks flying a plane to TUS also leave from TUS....? There are even (some) SWA flights out of that airport. ;)

Why wouldn't the folks flying a plane to TUS also leave from TUS....? There are even (some) SWA flights out of that airport. ;)

True,but it depends on where "home" is. PHX might be better for some of them as far as destination choices and flight frequency.

A friend who worked out of the Delta Chief Pilots office in CVG used to fly 727's to the desert after the last revenue flight. He said they would remove the liquor and drink carts, give the crew a plastic tray of ice and bottled water, and send em on their way. The tail number of the last 727 he flew to the desert happened to be the airplane where he first met his wife - a flight attendant.

I guess Delta still owned the airplane so they used their own line pilots. For others, when the beast is sold you no longer care about the insurance or who flies it, or where.

Here is where one SWA 737-200 ended up (http://www.ozarkgateway.com/parachute_inn.php). There is a business at Walnut Ridge that buys spent airplanes and they worked out a deal to place this one where it could live forever.

I am sure SWA has never had a repo. I think the closest they came was in the early days when they had to sell an airplane in order to meet payroll. This event spawned the 15 minute turn.

I am sure SWA has never had a repo. I think the closest they came was in the early days when they had to sell an airplane in order to meet payroll. This event spawned the 15 minute turn.

N20SW 2H4 20369/267 20 06/71 06/72
N21SW 2H4 20345/233 21 06/71 07/78
N22SW 2H4 20336/239 22 06/71 07/78
N23SW 2H4C 20346/258 23 09/71 09/74

You are correct; no repossessions.

SWA started in flying in 6/71 with the three airplanes you see above, and a fourth was added in 9/71. One of the original three 6/71 aircraft was indeed sold (to Frontier, v1.0, IIRC) in 6/72, and our subsequent running three aircraft on a schedule predicated on four aircraft was the genesis of the 10-minute turn. The turns didn't go to 15 minutes until someime in the 1980s. It was easier to accomplish a 10-minute turn way back then, since the -200s only had (then) 112 seats (and lounges..)

I am sure SWA has never had a repo. I think the closest they came was in the early days when they had to sell an airplane in order to meet payroll. This event spawned the 15 minute turn.



Yeah, I kind of doubted that it was a real "repo" (i.e. taking the airplane back because SWA didn't make its payments). If one did happen, perhaps there is an interesting story behind it?

I believe it probably was more like returning a plane at the end of a lease, which is hardly a repo. More like returning your rent-a-car, except that the "rent a plane" company has to come get it at DAL or whereever!

Might be good if Discovery Channel and Popovich clarified this, but clarity on Flyer Talk is good enough for me! :)

You can do tours of the AMARC "Boneyard" via the Pima Air and Space museum (http://www.pimaair.org/view.php?pg=16). It's a really cool place to go visit, even without going on the tour.

I did this tour in 2008. Its fun, even though it is military aircraft not commerical. They take you out in a bus and drive you around. They give you some verbal history of the various aircraft. I think there were a few commerical aircraft or the military equivalent of them. IIRC, you couldn't get off the bus, but you could take pictures out the window.

Sounds like a facinating show! I looked on the link for Discovery and could not find when it would be on. Does anyone know? I will keep looking for it.

I love the show!!

Knowing how SWA screw me over even on drink coupons, it wouldn't surprise me if they defaulted on aircraft payments.

I just for one thing - please don't repro the 737 while I am in it ;) wait until my land first ;) Gary, IN doesn't look very fun.

The Salon article on these supposed "professionals" states that Popovich's commission for his first repossession was greater, in constant dollars, than the purchase price of the plane.

What owner would pay a commission to a repo man of greater than 100% of the value of the vehicle?

Popovich and his crew are full of something aside from learned experience with aircraft repossession.

I did this tour in 2008. Its fun, even though it is military aircraft not commerical. They take you out in a bus and drive you around. They give you some verbal history of the various aircraft. I think there were a few commerical aircraft or the military equivalent of them.

For a long time at AMARC there were a lot of JT3D-powered Boeing 707s and 720s that had been acquired to provide engines, stabilizers and other components for the KC-135E program. The stripped aircraft stayed in the AMARC inventory for a while. They've steadily been going to the scrap heap, but for a long time it was possible to see a lot of airline colors out there, including some long-gone colors and some famous airplanes (IIRC, that's where the Dodgers' 720 ended up, as did the TWA 707 used for some scenes in "Airplane!").

The nearby Pima Air and Space Museum does have a few airliner types in its inventory, including a Caravelle, a couple of Constellations, a VC-118 (DC-6) used as a Presidential transport, and a VC-137B (707-120B) used for VIP government missions. I wanted to get out there when I was in Tucson a few years back, but time ran out on us.