Checkpoints and Borders Policy Debate - News.Gather.Com: New TSA Rules - Passengers Must 'Freeze on Command'?

A news outlet I don't normally pay attention to is reporting that the TSOWSFs [TSOs Who Yell Freeze] have returned:

News.gather.com:
New TSA Rules: Passengers Must 'Freeze on Command'?
July 07, 2012 07:50 AM EDT (http://news.gather.com/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474981458842)

A short quote:
According to possible new TSA rules, air travelers may be compelled to "freeze" when ordered to by screeners.

The federal safety agency has yet to comment on this policy, but an airline passenger claimed agents recently practiced a drill on his wife.

"We heard a "freeze, freeze" or something like this coming from the output side of security (where my wife was), followed by further barking of commands," the man said (http://www.infowars.com/new-tsa-policy-ordering-travelers-to-freeze-on-command/).

The article cites Infowars (http://news.gather.com/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474981458842)as their source; in turn, Infowars cites an anecdote posted on the Lew Rockwell blog (http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/115168.html).

In your dreams, Cartman.

Sounds like a typical Bravo drill. What am I missing?

Sounds like a typical Bravo drill. What am I missing?

More people are aware of it and talking about it. Which indicates, to me, that the public is not accepting TSA's ramp up of abuse.

To me, sudden awareness of something that we all know has been going on for some time says that the public is waking up.

Sounds like a typical Bravo drill. What am I missing?

That's what I was thinking, too. I was once chewed out by a three-striper for loudly joking about how ridiculous the drill was when caught up in one. Apparently they don't appreciate it when you point at them and say, "He's still moving! Take him down!" :D

To me, sudden awareness of something that we all know has been going on for some time says that the public is waking up.

Yep. Go ahead and grope their wives, their children, and their geriatric parents in the name of the "security" lie, and they don't gripe. Mess with their Starbucks or delay them on their way to their flight, and they get a little annoyed.

Typical.

Sounds like a typical Bravo drill. What am I missing?Sierra? ;)

They legally cant detain anyone, and this is a BS cowering conditioning drill. Just keep walking, and if they touch you file battery charges or defend yourself accordingly to prove a point.

I would be glad to post a account of BS drill that I encountered at LAX but a chewtoy might get bent out of shape.

Yep. Go ahead and grope their wives, their children, and their geriatric parents in the name of the "security" lie, and they don't gripe. Mess with their Starbucks or delay them on their way to their flight, and they get a little annoyed.

Typical.

No, apparently not. They don't allowed to groped the children & families at security checkpoint. It's against the laws. They can't be touching with the children at all. Never! It's very strict law.

No, apparently not. They don't allowed to groped the children & families at security checkpoint. It's against the laws. They can't be touching with the children at all. Never! It's very strict law.

One would think so - and yet the TSA does it every day.

They legally cant detain anyone, and this is a BS cowering conditioning drill. Just keep walking, and if they touch you file battery charges or defend yourself accordingly to prove a point.


Of course, if they stand blocking the exit from the sterile area, and you try to walk past them, you'll be subject to the same charges of battery.

Of course, if they stand blocking the exit from the sterile area, and you try to walk past them, you'll be subject to the same charges of battery.

Unlawful detainment / kidnapping would trump that if push came to shove. Im not gonna be delayed / suffer because TSA SNUFUBAR things. TSA likes to play tough but when I call there bluff they fold like a cheap lawn chair every time.

FREEZE!
No, you freeze
No, YOU freeze
NO YOU freeze
I said it first-you freeze
So what, I said it second-you freeze

Mommy-the passenger isn't playing fair
Go talk to your father-I'm too tired for child's play

I had something similar last month at SNA. I had just exited to the Nude-O-Scope (I chose not to opt out since I was traveling with my partner). As soon as I exited the machine, TSA were all screaming "Code 5", and everything shut down. They lowered the gates into the screening area, leaving everyone in line. I was told to stand where I was and not to move. My partner was on the other side of the NOS, waiting to walk in, and told to wait. Apparently, this "Code" shut down all security for the entire airport. Each gate had a TSA assigned. Incoming flights were not allowed to deplane, but held at the jetbridge, and anyone in security was told to stay in place. My bags were in the x-ray, so there was nowhere to go but wait. After about 15 minutes, the all-clear was given. My guardian TSA wanted to send me back for a second x-ray since the chap stick in my pocket showed up as an anomoly on the screen. At that point, I told him that one dose of radiation was enough, and that I wanted to opt out of the second dose. It took 3 more TSA agents to question my original guardian TSO, and once I pulled the chap stick out of my pocket, I was allowed to leave without a second dose of radiation.

Since my bags were literally inside the x-ray machine and in TSA custody, there was little point in arguing their "stay where you are" command.

Unlawful detainment / kidnapping would trump that if push came to shove. Im not gonna be delayed / suffer because TSA SNUFUBAR things. TSA likes to play tough but when I call there bluff they fold like a cheap lawn chair every time.

Perhaps ... but only after they unlawfully detained you long enough to make you miss your flight. We've seen it happen before. (It doesn't make it right, of course ...)

At that point, I told him that one dose of radiation was enough, and that I wanted to opt out of the second dose.

SNA, or SAN? I believe SNA has the non-radiation MMW scanners, and I know SAN has BKSX.

Perhaps ... but only after they unlawfully detained you long enough to make you miss your flight. We've seen it happen before. (It doesn't make it right, of course ...)

BTDT, and saying I had plenty of time (Didn't really, but they couldn't tell even the multiple BDOs standing around holding up the walls), made that threat flame out. Magically & mysteriously they didn't want to drag there collective asses anymore swabbed the bag and that was the end of it.

People who like to power trip like alot of TSA employees do (along with Paul Blart, rescue ricky personalities), have self esteem and confidence issues, so they use a mask to puff themselves up. OTOH they will cower when challenged as they don't have the intestinal fortitude to walk the walk...hence the cheap lawn chair analogy.

SNA, or SAN? I believe SNA has the non-radiation MMW scanners, and I know SAN has BKSX.

Doesn't matter since TSA refuses to allow independent 3rd party testing (data supplied by TSA doesn't count) the "safety" is questionable and highly suspect at best.

"freeze?" LOL, good luck with that mall-cop-wannabe

One would think so - and yet the TSA does it every day.

I hear enough! It's wasting their time. I can't stand it! Better not to groped the children! Just in case. Tell TSA that I said leave the children alone! Nobody ever touching with the kids. Never! They have a several warning before and they have respect with the kids and not try to embarrassed with the children.

"freeze?" LOL, good luck with that mall-cop-wannabe

I'm wondering if a day is coming when TS"O"s will order real LEOs to Taser or shoot people who refuse to participate in the freeze drill. You know, since they might have been reaching for their suicide-bomb detonate switches.

They have a several warning before and they have respect with the kids and not try to embarrassed with the children.

That's the problem with the TSA. They have no respect for anyone - and especially themselves, or they wouldn't be "working" for the most reviled agency in the history of the United States.

I'm wondering if a day is coming when TS"O"s will order real LEOs to Taser or shoot people who refuse to participate in the freeze drill.

the day real LEO's are placed under the command structure to respond to "orders" from TSA clerks, you'll see such a stink raised by the former that it'll make the latter's heads spin

How should one respond if one encounters a situation where a TSA clerk orders everyone to freeze? If you're clear of the WTMD/nude-o-scope and your stuff is out of the scanner, what could they do if you grab your stuff and go?

the day real LEO's are placed under the command structure to respond to "orders" from TSA clerks, you'll see such a stink raised by the former that it'll make the latter's heads spin

Unless they're in ABQ or LGA...

the day real LEO's are placed under the command structure to respond to "orders" from TSA clerks, you'll see such a stink raised by the former that it'll make the latter's heads spin

Power supports power. I'd be willing to bet that most LEOs would be completely in favor of that kind of situation.

If this ever happens to me, I may suddenly loose my ability to understand and speak the English language.

How should one respond if one encounters a situation where a TSA clerk orders everyone to freeze? If you're clear of the WTMD/nude-o-scope and your stuff is out of the scanner, what could they do if you grab your stuff and go?

They could call a real LEO and ask them to detain me. Absent that, I'm leaving, and would relish the opportunity to see them try to stop me.

They could call a real LEO and ask them to detain me. Absent that, I'm leaving, and would relish the opportunity to see them try to stop me.

Yes, but the chance of that happening to anyone is just about Zero. I haven't even yet seen a Bravo, but lots of people here have. I get the impression that some of you have been in one or maybe even two? But was anyone in the position described - i.e. , all screening had been completed, luggage was on the belt clear of the scanner, but at the time "BS" was called, you were still standing in the screening area? That is something like 1% (or less) of the people in a screening area (90% are still waiting to go through by my analogy).

In other words, if you are just about to walk through the WTMD, and they yell "freeze", are you saying that you would walk through the WTMD, ignore the instruction saying "sir, you need to stop [or "go through again" or "there was a beep"] and then walk over to the screening machine, and go "behind" and push the button to advance your luggage through the machine and then get your luggage and leave? And if you were willing to do that when they yell "bravo" why not just ignore them and walk through without stopping every time?

They lowered the gates into the screening area, leaving everyone in line.

I have never seen any gates coming down but that sounds like you were trapped with no emergency exit available. Could be life threatening fire safety violation. In addition that type of confinement could trigger a major uncontrollable panic attack in some claustrophobia people.

.

How should one respond if one encounters a situation where a TSA clerk orders everyone to freeze? If you're clear of the WTMD/nude-o-scope and your stuff is out of the scanner, what could they do if you grab your stuff and go?

They could theoretically refuse you entry into the secure area, or call a LEO over to try and keep you from making your flight. If you've already cleared, though, they'd have a tough time making that stick. I'd just keep walking and let them play their little game of red light, green light.

Also, I was still in line during my bravo drill, so even if I'd wanted to take off running and make life entertaining for the blue shirts (which, considering that I had three hours before my flight and multiple other checkpoints to choose from, I did), I couldn't have gone anywhere.

how would they react if a passenger lost it when tsa calls "bravo drill", passeger starts shouting " whats going on i dont want to die they must have found something and they wont let us out they want us all to die" then lay on the floor and covers his/her head still crying out i dont want to die let me out of here

If they shout "freeze" - start digging in your carry-on for you knitwear. "Freeze" is very cold, innit?

If they shout "bravo" - just clap your hands and shout back "bravo, maestro"!

I know that English language might be sometimes difficult, but it should be an employment requirement for American citizens employed by a governement agency.

They did this at Delta's terminal in LAX last night around 8:30pm.

Here's the thing, listening to the police radio, I don't think TSA told LA airport police it was a drill. At least that wasn't relayed to officers until late into the drill.

Passengers of course were the last to know anything as both entrances and exits to the terminal were closed, and anyone that asked TSA what was happening was given a non-answer.

Passengers of course were the last to know anything as both entrances and exits to the terminal were closed, and anyone that asked TSA what was happening was given a non-answer.

Doesn't the TSA continue to claim they can't and don't "detain" people?

If they shout "freeze" - start digging in your carry-on for you knitwear. "Freeze" is very cold, innit?

If they shout "bravo" - just clap your hands and shout back "bravo, maestro"!

I know that English language might be sometimes difficult, but it should be an employment requirement for American citizens employed by a governement agency.Bolding mine: "Sierra" sounds and fits much better ;)

I think it should be an FT secret handshake / pledge kinda thing. "I promise never to call the airlines..." and "I promise to yell Marco (or respectively Polo) if I ever get caught in a TSA Bravo Sierra".

TSA: Bravo!
FT'er#1: Marco!
FT'er#2: Polo!

More people are aware of it and talking about it. Which indicates, to me, that the public is not accepting TSA's ramp up of abuse.

To me, sudden awareness of something that we all know has been going on for some time says that the public is waking up.

They don't allowed to groped the children & families at security checkpoint. It's against the laws. They can't be touching with the children at all. Never! It's very strict law.

One would think so - and yet the TSA does it every day.

YouTube is full of people who try arguing with cops about their constitutional rights. Of course, so are our prisons. I love the ITGs who brag about how they'll show up the TSA next chance they get. Never see that IRL though do you.

I love the ITGs who brag about how they'll show up the TSA next chance they get. Never see that IRL though do you.

Conversely, we always hear from the TSA clerks that they treat people with respect.

Never see that IRL, either.

Conversely, we always hear from the TSA clerks that they treat people with respect.

Never see that IRL, either.

Come on, really? I'd be the last person to defend the TSA in general but at least half the agents I encounter are reasonably polite or better. With this one caveat: in second-tier airports. At the large ones I figure they're just traumatized like the rest of us. And in places like NYC I don't expect anyone to be terribly civil.

YouTube is full of people who try arguing with cops about their constitutional rights. Of course, so are our prisons. I love the ITGs who brag about how they'll show up the TSA next chance they get. Never see that IRL though do you.
Just because you think they're out to get you doesn't mean they aren't.

Come on, really? I'd be the last person to defend the TSA in general but at least half the agents I encounter are reasonably polite or better.

Try DTW once.

:D I'd rather not.

Often I fly out of a regional airport now. Granted I have to connect a lot but the service & atmosphere are so very nice. It means I don't dread the start of a trip, I get to choose where I'll connect, and usually I stay airside so I don't have to deal with the TSA lowlifes at the major gateways. Of course for international travel there's no real avoiding it, and ATL, IAD, and LHR are all pains. DTW though, haven't tried it http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i251/benzomatic/Emoticons/icon_smile_tongue.gif

Come on, really? I'd be the last person to defend the TSA in general but at least half the agents I encounter are reasonably polite or better. With this one caveat: in second-tier airports. At the large ones I figure they're just traumatized like the rest of us. And in places like NYC I don't expect anyone to be terribly civil.

AUS, DEN, ATL, PHX. All pure hell-holes full of TSA vermin.

They're not "traumatized." They enjoy inflicting trauma on others, whether by sticking their hands where they shouldn't (and don't need to) be, or by stealing passenger's belongings, or simply bellowing at people.

It's amazing, just amazing, that with all the elderly passengers and whatnot around that this nonsense hasn't induced a panic attack or even heart attack in someone.

I do have to wonder what would happen if one started clutching one's chest and dropped to the floor in reaction to their nonsense. Perhaps that's the solution - use nonsense and acting to defeat their lunacy. Acting is appropriate, as it all is security "theater", correct? (Could you imagine what would happen if 3 or 4 people simultaneously faked heart attacks in the middle of one of these drills? And I doubt there's any law about faking heart attacks, so once the drill ended, the passenger should be able to just stand up and walk away.)

It's amazing, just amazing, that with all the elderly passengers and whatnot around that this nonsense hasn't induced a panic attack or even heart attack in someone.

I do have to wonder what would happen if one started clutching one's chest and dropped to the floor in reaction to their nonsense. Perhaps that's the solution - use nonsense and acting to defeat their lunacy. Acting is appropriate, as it all is security "theater", correct? (Could you imagine what would happen if 3 or 4 people simultaneously faked heart attacks in the middle of one of these drills? And I doubt there's any law about faking heart attacks, so once the drill ended, the passenger should be able to just stand up and walk away.)

Heck, just go all "Woman caught naked" screaming and running through the airport throwing your belongings and papers as you go.

No law against being hysterical, right?

FWIW, when I was at DEN and the did this about six months ago, several people, including myself, kept walking because people listening to sound-sealing headphone (and in my case, typing on my BB), tend not to notice the TSA.

They got in front of me, and in my natural skill of avoiding collisions while typing, I walked around them the first time. When I looked up, they kept in front me me and kept telling me to stop. I figured out what was going on and kept walking. They kept telling me to stop, but they never touched me.

Eventually I just took the escalator to the Admirals Club and they gave up. I did not see what happened to the other people who kept walking.

No law against being hysterical, right?

Not yet. :(

Is anyone else waiting for this to happen, simply to ignore them? I always seem to miss the good stuff.

Is anyone else waiting for this to happen, simply to ignore them? I always seem to miss the good stuff.

I'd love to be in a Freeze Drill--however, I want it to be at my final destination. That way, if a clerk decides to DY...T me, I can tell them to Foxtrot Oscar, keep walking, and the worst thing that could happen to me would be an escort to where I'm already going.

What we really need is 100% disobedience of Freeze Drills--let's look at what the TSA could actually do:

- Shut down passenger screening--nobody enters airside until everybody freezes.

- Shut down the exit. At a busy airport with a constant stream of passengers exiting, good luck with this.

What has the response been real LEOs in airports wrt Freeze Drills? Do they help the TSA clerks discipline passengers for not playing along? Or do they treat it like the Bravo Sierra it is and even protect passengers from overzealous clerks?

I'd love to be in a Freeze Drill--however, I want it to be at my final destination. That way, if a clerk decides to DY...T me, I can tell them to Foxtrot Oscar, keep walking, and the worst thing that could happen to me would be an escort to where I'm already going.

What we really need is 100% disobedience of Freeze Drills--let's look at what the TSA could actually do:

- Shut down passenger screening--nobody enters airside until everybody freezes.

- Shut down the exit. At a busy airport with a constant stream of passengers exiting, good luck with this.

What has the response been real LEOs in airports wrt Freeze Drills? Do they help the TSA clerks discipline passengers for not playing along? Or do they treat it like the Bravo Sierra it is and even protect passengers from overzealous clerks?


I was at In-N-Out Supulveda and heard a code bravo go out over the LAX World airport police radios and it seemed to be the dispatcher alerting LEOs that TSA was beginning one of these drills in Delta Airline's terminal. Heard no additional radio traffic and I'm not sure what role they would play in such a situation, but from what I heard they are aware when this takes place.

I would consider stopping if the TSA made the announcement in the form of a flash mob while dancing to Erasure's song "Stop!"

Mike