KLM Flying Dutchman - Pros and Cons - KLM Biz Class

I'm flying KLM for the first time this fall. SFO - AMS. 747-400.

What are the pros and cons of Biz Class? I've booked my seat on Upper Deck. Seat 77K.

Thanks

I'm flying KLM for the first time this fall. SFO - AMS. 747-400.

What are the pros and cons of Biz Class? I've booked my seat on Upper Deck. Seat 77K.

Thanks

I'm not quite sure what you are looking to hear.

The pros: you get a better seat, better food, lounge access and a bigger checked luggage allowance

The cons: you paid more than coach.

Cheers,

GenevaFlyer

I'm not quite sure what you are looking to hear.

The pros: you get a better seat, better food, lounge access and a bigger checked luggage allowance

The cons: you paid more than coach.

Cheers,

GenevaFlyer



I'm looking to hear specifics about the pros and cons of KLM Biz Class never having flown KLM. How is service, food, seats, SFO and AMS lounge facilities, etc. I read negative reviews on an airline review website about the biz class seats. Just wondering what other's impressions are.

It all depends what you compare it to. No the seats are not fully flat, but, they still are an incredible lot better than Economy ;)

I have flown KLM Bz AMS KUL, AMS JFK, AMS YVR all within the past year. There has been dramatic improvement in the cabin, the food and design of cutlery etc.
The service is efficient and leaves any of the US based airlines for dead..I am hoping to fly them more, in 2013.

It's a couple of years since I've flown them, but I enjoyed them. I was also upper deck on a 747, no idea what the seat number was. Decent food, decent seat, the FAs were great, flights were on time. You'll certainly find them to be better than any US airline, but not as good as most Asian airlines. As a bonus, AMS is a fantastic airport in all respects.

The upper deck is cool. Its like you are on your own plane. Also, as someone already mentioned AMS is a great airport. Try and go to their oxygen bar. Pretty cool stuff.

KLM tends to offer New World wines in WBC, so don't expect traditional French offerings.

KLM tends to offer New World wines in WBC, so don't expect traditional French offerings.

On one trip I was offered a Chinese wine (!), which I risked and it was quite drinkable. There were also French wines on offer (nb as I said earlier, this was a couple of years ago).

Do they still give J pax those little houses full of genever? That was a lovely little touch.

I got one when flying ATL-AMS in J in the beginning of May. So I suppose they do :-)

Let me ask you this my friend..

Q. Have you ever flown internationally in Biz & actually WISHED you were sitting in steerage???

A. No, never!

Seems pretty simple, don't you think (-;

Wines in June included a pretty nice Dominique Cornin, Mâcon-Caintrè 2010 - that was "KLM's special white wine." ither white wines were from Spain, Italy; reds were Australia, Argentina, and Chile. Two ports and champagne Billecart-Salmon.
I used WBC twice this year - ATL and YYZ. Crews were great, food ok to very good, seats terrible. But I enjoyed the flights and certainly a much better experience than sitting in Y.

Do they still give J pax those little houses full of genever? That was a lovely little touch.

They do. Only for World-Business routes though (So not short/medium haul). In some cases you might get the house without booze if the destination country/religion frowns upon alcohol. Both of these do not apply to the SFO-AMS route though - the OP will receive the house filled 'up :p

KLM tends to offer New World wines in WBC, so don't expect traditional French offerings.

They had Billecart-Salmon Champagne, which I very much enjoyed. I didn't try it, but they also had a Burgundy wine.

The upper deck is cool. Its like you are on your own plane. Also, as someone already mentioned AMS is a great airport. Try and go to their oxygen bar. Pretty cool stuff.

The upper deck is great. My wife and I flew the 747 to ORD last month and we relaly liked row 77.

It's a couple of years since I've flown them, but I enjoyed them. I was also upper deck on a 747, no idea what the seat number was. Decent food, decent seat, the FAs were great, flights were on time. You'll certainly find them to be better than any US airline, but not as good as most Asian airlines. As a bonus, AMS is a fantastic airport in all respects.

I thought the food was actually very good, much better than the stuff we got on AF the prior week and pretty much on par with the C-class food on my LX flight in May. My expectations were modest and I was pleasantly surprised!

I'm looking to hear specifics about the pros and cons of KLM Biz Class never having flown KLM. How is service, food, seats, SFO and AMS lounge facilities, etc. I read negative reviews on an airline review website about the biz class seats. Just wondering what other's impressions are.

The AMS lounge is nice; I like it much better than the old lounges they used to have.

tip for the OP.

Just use the search function at FT. there are many many threads/post that detail the KLM business class experience.

tip for the OP.

Just use the search function at FT. there are many many threads/post that detail the KLM business class experience.


+1, though the search FT function is pretty crappy to put it mildly. The whole FT interface screams so add-your-favorite-decade-to-bash-for-its-technical-immaturity

+1, though the search FT function is pretty crappy to put it mildly. The whole FT interface screams so add-your-favorite-decade-to-bash-for-its-technical-immaturity

+1
When I researched FT for my KLM flights a few years back I didn't really come across anything useful, beyond a lot of people griping that as soon as the doors closed the cabin crew would immediately move all their non-rev buddies up to J or F, and paying pax would be ignored for most of the flight.

I didn't notice any such shenanigans going on, and I found that they got the level of service pretty much the way I like it.

Pro. Delft house, long flight. Plenta of sleep time
Con. No lie flat

I've done more than a dozen and prefer west bound AMS to left coast. Delta lie flat east bound. Not a choice sfo.

I'm flying KLM for the first time this fall. SFO - AMS. 747-400.

What are the pros and cons of Biz Class? I've booked my seat on Upper Deck. Seat 77K.

Thanks

I prefer the upper deck Biz than FC to be honest. You have a lot more privacy, great service. And they should as you exit the plane hold the economy back while everyone "upstairs" departs.

enjoy I am on that flight next year.

+1, though the search FT function is pretty crappy to put it mildly.

That's why you should always use google (or your preferred search engine) to perform a search on flyertalk.

"KLM Business Class comparison reviews site:www.flyertalk.com"

The bit in bold is the important bit - it restricts the search to this website. This works in most search engines.

tip for the OP.

Just use the search function at FT. there are many many threads/post that detail the KLM business class experience.

+1. Hundreds literally, both on its own and in comparison to about every other airline J one can think of (although predominantly lots of KL vs AF or KL vs DL)...

Just a few words on how I perceive it
-Lounges at AMS, not bad at all
-Seat...mehh...but I can sleep kind of reasonable on them
-Service. Professional, and often has an informal yet polite personal touch to it.
-Food. Pretty decent nowadays, and ex AMS can be considered even good nowadays.
-Wines: Better offering than many airlines..including, surprise, AF! 2 whites, 2 reds, 2 port wines, 1 champagne, 1 desert wine and last but not least the often interesting special wine to choose from.
-Amenities bag. Nice useable bag designed by Victor en Rolf. Contents...ehm...handy inflight socks and...ehm...nothing that impresses me enough to remember!
-Last but not least: A traditional KLM gift at the end of the flight: A Delfts Blue huisje containing a shot of gin. You can collect all 92 (soon 93) by taking 92 WBC flights ;-)

Just a few words on how I perceive it
-Lounges at AMS, not bad at all
-Seat...mehh...but I can sleep kind of reasonable on them
-Service. Professional, and often has an informal yet polite personal touch to it.
-Food. Pretty decent nowadays, and ex AMS can be considered even good nowadays.
-Wines: Better offering than many airlines..including, surprise, AF! 2 whites, 2 reds, 2 port wines, 1 champagne, 1 desert wine and last but not least the often interesting special wine to choose from.
-Amenities bag. Nice useable bag designed by Victor en Rolf. Contents...ehm...handy inflight socks and...ehm...nothing that impresses me enough to remember!
-Last but not least: A traditional KLM gift at the end of the flight: A Delfts Blue huisje containing a shot of gin. You can collect all 92 (soon 93) by taking 92 WBC flights ;-)

Couldn´t agree more! The food quality and presentation has improved a lot since the Marcel Waanders revamp.
Don´t forget to try the pink port!

I can strongly recommend the upper deck on the 747. Apart from the private atmosphere, this cabin is looked after by 2 crew whereas the lower deck cabin has only one flight attendant (the senior purser, who also has other duties).

Another disadvantage of the 747 lower deck J cabin is that people from economy comfort often walk in for using the toilet etc.
For the MD11: avoid the rear J cabin. Since there is a lot of space between row 5/6 and the galley, many people from economy tend to come here for a little walk with their children etc.

i am sorry but i think kl business sucks... the seats are a nightmare... i even think the seats on delta are better... i seem to be able to sleep in them, klm is a slippery slope to hell.

i never fly them long haul no more... i rather have a stop over and fly BA with its flat beds. The airline is far from perfect but on flat beds I sleep or Emirates ex amsterdam is fantastic. sometimes in FIRST for half the price of business with KLM. They must be really hurting there...

from SFO i would prefer BA with a stop over... or eben lufthansa with a stopover... I lke the ladies in blue polyester, but the inferior product just doesn't do it anymore...

did i mention flying blue.... :-)

I would put KL in the '3 star' category of J class according to the unscientific FOHA scale :).

The crew can be hit or miss, with a recent experience leaving me less than impressed with them. I was in WBC from SIN and when the purser was serving dinner, I mentioned that I am allergic to the salmon starter offered. After staring at me for a few seconds (this is the first time I had spoken to her), she sighed in exacerbation and said 'well don't eat it then'. In general, crews can be too loud for my liking (their galley gossip is anything but when the whole WBC cabin hears it), and whilst numerous can be genuinely friendly, many are too forthright for my liking. If you’ve been around the Dutch (I’ve married into them :)), you’ll recognise that type of character.

Food: much improved and I would rate it as one of the best in Europe. Now if only they could give us real salt and pepper shakers, and get rid of that nasty box on the tray...

Depending on the aircraft, the seat could be bad or horrible. The 777-200s have some older (the recline mechanism is very loud, and sometimes doesn't work) seats on quite a slope. Too uncomfortable for me for sleeping, but okay for lounging. The ‘300s are marginally better, but still not horizontal beds.

I seem to remember the AVOD system having more entertainment options in the past. On recent trips I have been unimpressed, and bored by the end of the trip. But I have been spoiled by SQ, CX and QF recently, which offer a much better selection.

Compared to BA and even LH, lounges are really nothing to write home about. The AMS lounge is huge – a big open space with numerous seating areas, but the drink selection is rather limited, and food is… well, just basic. Cheese squares and mini sausages. I wouldn’t recommend the showers, as the rooms are not well ventilated and I end up getting sweaty by the time I’m dressed afterwards. Also a minus point: lack of arrivals lounge.

You know that, as FB Platinum, you can make use of the KLM Crown Lounge on arrival at AMS?

You know that, as FB Platinum, you can make use of the KLM Crown Lounge on arrival at AMS?

I actually did not know that, and I will definitely head for a shower next time I arrive after a long flight and head straight to work ^.

However, my earlier point about the showers still stands (insufficient ventilation!). :td:

Have a good weekend all!

However, my earlier point about the showers still stands (insufficient ventilation!).Hey, at least the hot water does not run out by 9 a.m. or so, as anybody who remembers the Good Old Days in the RoyalWing lounge will recall.

Johan

Does KL serve champagne on long-haul as a pre-departure beverage still or just after takeoff? Pre-departure of any kind offered on short-haul CityHopper flights?

Does KL offer a snacking station on long-haul flights in the galley?

Does KL serve champagne on long-haul as a pre-departure beverage still or just after takeoff? Pre-departure of any kind offered on short-haul CityHopper flights?

Does KL offer a snacking station on long-haul flights in the galley?

Yes to pre-departure champagne on most long-haul flights, certainly on tatl and ex-AMS. I think I read somewhere on FT that at some airports serving alcohol prior to closing the doors is either not allowed or too expensive.

No pre-departure beverage on KLC. While on long-haul flights you get champagne, on short-haul flights they serve spanish sparkling wine Cava.

Yes, there is snacking station on long-haul flights.

Yes, there is snacking station on long-haul flights.

On flights >9 hours, I believe.