Practical Travel Safety Issues - Hand swab for explosive residue: Happy ending

I flew US out of BWI early yesterday. Since I had no status I patiently waited in the long que for my turn to be groped.

As I was waiting I was selected to have my hands checked for explosive residue. After they deemed I was no threat to my fellow travelers I was shuttled over to the elite security line, cutting quite a few minutes off of the process.

OK, that's all fine and good. But what annoys me is what would have happend had I fired my 9mm pistol yesterday? I am a Soldier so it is within the realm of posibility. Or what about a police officer? Or someone who launched some leftover fireworks?

As I was waiting I was selected to have my hands checked for explosive residue. After they deemed I was no threat to my fellow travelers I was shuttled over to the elite security line, cutting quite a few minutes off of the process.

Can't you decline this if you're waiting in line for the TDC? I believe the screening process doesn't start until you hit the TDC.

This is very simple. If you show positive for residue, your hand cant fly. you'll have to leave it behind, or mail it back home:D

Nothing. You tell them that you are a soldier. Show them your credentials and zip via nudemeter. My friend shoots a lot and fly a lot. Always caring with him his permit to show to Toilet Safety Administration. Never had any problems.

If this is true, then why test anyone?

(There I go, trying to fit logic into the TSA, Sorry.)

Just don't wear hand lotion. Or fertilize your lawn.

The nitrates contained in both can cause the machines to give false positives, thus earning you the opportunity for a very thorough groping.

Just don't wear hand lotion. Or fertilize your lawn.

The nitrates contained in both can cause the machines to give false positives, thus earning you the opportunity for a very thorough groping.

Or the gloves haven't been changed, and have simply accumulated enough to show a positive.

I've yet to encounter a TSA employee who actually understood test methodologies and the concept of "contaminated samples."

Of course, that'd be why they're TSA employees and not holding real jobs...

I flew US out of BWI early yesterday. Since I had no status I patiently waited in the long que for my turn to be groped.

As I was waiting I was selected to have my hands checked for explosive residue. After they deemed I was no threat to my fellow travelers I was shuttled over to the elite security line, cutting quite a few minutes off of the process.

OK, that's all fine and good. But what annoys me is what would have happend had I fired my 9mm pistol yesterday? I am a Soldier so it is within the realm of posibility. Or what about a police officer? Or someone who launched some leftover fireworks?

Most likely nothing would have happened. I am an avid sporting shooter and test my hands all the time, never an alarm. Then again I load my own and exclusively use products made in the USA. The military gets their ammo from whoever can supply it at spec the cheapest. One can never really be sure where its made or with what.

Most likely nothing would have happened. I am an avid sporting shooter and test my hands all the time, never an alarm. Then again I load my own and exclusively use products made in the USA. The military gets their ammo from whoever can supply it at spec the cheapest. One can never really be sure where its made or with what.

I see. TSA is only testing for foreign made explosives :rolleyes:

This is so infuriating that I won't even type what I want to say.

I too enjoy my target shooting with my Constitutionally and legally obtained firearms, but the fact we're subjected to these tests as a member of the public when you yourself state they're not accurate makes me want to slam my head into my desk.

Most likely nothing would have happened. I am an avid sporting shooter and test my hands all the time, never an alarm. Then again I load my own and exclusively use products made in the USA. The military gets their ammo from whoever can supply it at spec the cheapest. One can never really be sure where its made or with what.

When you say you load your own are you saying you reload your own shot?
Are you a shotgun, rifleman or pistol enthusiast?

Quick story -

A few years ago at ORD, my hands were tested and the result was positive. I assume it was the hair conditioner or lotion I used prior to getting to the airport.

A three-striper was called. She said that she was going to have to test my bags and cell phone. I told her that I have been carrying my cell phone with me the whole time so I am sure it was going to test positive. Well, it did.

Defcon 1 was announced. "Shut this screeing lane down, now!" came from her mouth. In the end, there were agents of all stripes, four suits, the BDO (Bomb Detection Officer) and four of Chicago's finest surrounding me. They took EVERYTHING apart. It took almost two hours. I asked to go to the bathroom, and the screening manager wouldn't let me move! As I was dancing around, one of the CPD Officers saw this and told the TSA that he was going to take to to the bathroom. She reluctantly agreed. At least he didn't watch me pee.

This was before the stip searches that are taking place now, but I can guess what would have happened if they were done then.

Awful experience. I felt like a character in a Kafka novel.

I think that's a worthwhile endeavor for many posters.

HOWEVER rudeness will not be tolerated. Most of you know the drill, OK???

squeakr

co-mod TS/S

Just don't wear hand lotion. Or fertilize your lawn.

The nitrates contained in both can cause the machines to give false positives, thus earning you the opportunity for a very thorough groping.

Wait, so we can't wear lotion for a few days before getting on a plane? Does normal soap trigger a false positive? What about shampoo and laundry detergent on your clothes? I wonder why such an unreliable test is still being used? It doesn't make sense to me and it seems almost dumb. But then again, what do I know? :)

This thread really, really, really wasn't about what I thought it was going to be about. Let's just say that my first thought was, "oh, no, what is the TSA swabbing for now?"

Mike

Wait, so we can't wear lotion for a few days before getting on a plane? Does normal soap trigger a false positive? What about shampoo and laundry detergent on your clothes? I wonder why such an unreliable test is still being used? It doesn't make sense to me and it seems almost dumb. But then again, what do I know? :)And add hair gel (as I use it on what's left of my hair ;)) but regardless of that, my sop, thanks to a false positive :td:, is to hit a landside head and thoroughly (n.b thoroughly) wash my hands up to my wrists with soap and water and then throughly (n.b. thoroughly) rinse with warm water before entering the checkpoint

As a FYI: last week at T3 LHR, after passing through FastTrack and collecting my belongings I was asked by one of the security types if she could swab my briefcase. I agreed, she swabbed the handles and the process took less than 30 seconds.

Just don't wear hand lotion. Or fertilize your lawn.

Or clean your kitchen. Got into trouble with that once with all the cleaning agents...

This is so infuriating that I won't even type what I want to say.

I too enjoy my target shooting with my Constitutionally and legally obtained firearms, but the fact we're subjected to these tests as a member of the public when you yourself state they're not accurate makes me want to slam my head into my desk.



When you say you load your own are you saying you reload your own shot?
Are you a shotgun, rifleman or pistol enthusiast?

Pistol and Rifle. I have a loader for 12gauge but have never gotten around to using it. I honestly dont shoot my shotguns enough to make it pay off to reload the hulls.

The tests are very accurate, like in the single parts per million accurate. Folks here tend to belittle the TSA where and when they can, even if it makes them look like fools.

Oh, and BTW there monkey, modern small arms use propellant, not explosives. :rolleyes: But there's no telling what the Russians are putting in their powder besides propellant.

Yeah, we were given a 12g loader but with the price of shells being so reasonable and easy to just pick up before going target shooting it hasn't been worth it to us. We do return our spent rifle and pistol shells to a friend for him to reuse.

I'm guilty of belittling the TSA but quite often they bring it upon themselves.
I still like that you're on here and comment.

Pistol and Rifle. I have a loader for 12gauge but have never gotten around to using it. I honestly dont shoot my shotguns enough to make it pay off to reload the hulls.

The tests are very accurate, like in the single parts per million accurate. Folks here tend to belittle the TSA where and when they can, even if it makes them look like fools.

Oh, and BTW there monkey, modern small arms use propellant, not explosives. :rolleyes: But there's no telling what the Russians are putting in their powder besides propellant.

Yeah, we were given a 12g loader but with the price of shells being so reasonable and easy to just pick up before going target shooting it hasn't been worth it to us. We do return our spent rifle and pistol shells to a friend for him to reuse.

I'm guilty of belittling the TSA but quite often they bring it upon themselves.
I still like that you're on here and comment.

Thanks.

The range I am a member of only has one trap house and its only open one day a week. Not much incentive to get out there and practice. OTOH they have multiple pistol and rifle ranges, and I try and get out there twice a month or so.

Pistol and Rifle. I have a loader for 12gauge but have never gotten around to using it. I honestly dont shoot my shotguns enough to make it pay off to reload the hulls.

The tests are very accurate, like in the single parts per million accurate. Folks here tend to belittle the TSA where and when they can, even if it makes them look like fools.

Oh, and BTW there monkey, modern small arms use propellant, not explosives. :rolleyes: But there's no telling what the Russians are putting in their powder besides propellant.

Yes we know. But the TSA isn't testing for either. They're testing for nitrates. Careful all you bacon eaters.

<snip>
The tests are very accurate, like in the single parts per million accurate. Folks here tend to belittle the TSA where and when they can, even if it makes them look like fools.
<snip>



Methinks you are blissfully unaware of the huge difference between sensitivity and accuracy. Become familiar with the concept of false positive for a start.

This thread really, really, really wasn't about what I thought it was going to be about. Let's just say that my first thought was, "oh, no, what is the TSA swabbing for now?"

Mike

Yes there is really something wrong with a thread that contains

"Hand swab", "explosive residue", and "Happy ending"

in the same line.

This happened to me in DTW.

I took the kids a few years ago to City July 4 fireworks.

Had sundry supplies in my computer bag.

Got swabbed at the TSA and the computer bag tested positive !

Mised my flight, no one believed my story, everything was taken apart and examined .

Who would have thunk the fireworks left a residue on my bag !

O.k. I understand that fireworks may contain substances that are banned from air travel (poorly worded, but I hope you know what I mean).

We buy a substantial assortment of the land based ones several times a year, not the aerial shells, and I'm trying to figure out how they could leave residue on one's hands. Our modus operandi is to light the thing with a long match or BBQ lighter, and get back about 15 feet before it goes off/starts spinning or fountaining/etc.

How do you get residue on your hands lighting ground rockets and running?

How do you get residue on your hands lighting ground rockets and running?

If the machines are matching to 1 ppm, as TSORon indicated, you could be positive with very minimal direct contact with any material that would be tested.

Methinks you are blissfully unaware of the huge difference between sensitivity and accuracy. Become familiar with the concept of false positive for a start.

Oh no, I quite understand the meaning of the terms. I get the feeling that you misunderstood my meaning. The devices are accurate, period. Sensitive as well, to the levels I have specified or greater. It’s the TSO's that determine if there are explosives present in a bag. A residue does not an explosive make, but it does make a reason for scrutiny. Therefore since the residue of an explosive component / suspect chemical is present in a bag then the device is not giving a “false positive”.

A residue does not an explosive make...

I think this fact needs to be communicated better to some of your coworkers. From the reports here, there are TSOs think they've made the Big Catch™ whenever an ETD swab is positive. While I agree that an ETD positive is in almost all cases not a false positive for the ETD, you're largely arguing semantics.

I think what frustrates people the most is that ETD alarms can happen by coming into contact, either intentionally or inadvertently, with common everyday items. I suspect, however, that very few ETD alarms result in discovering something more sinister, and they certainly don't justify the amount of resources scrutinizing a positive ETD if the tests are as sensitive as you claim them to be.

Sure, put the bag through the x-ray machine a second time for a more thorough look. Do a bag check. However, are four TSOs really necessary to meticulously examine and toss about every item in someone's duffel bag for 30 minutes just because the person used it at the range previously? This raises another sophisticated concept called statistical significance, which the TSA does not, for the most part, seem to grasp.

:D

I think this fact needs to be communicated better to some of your coworkers. From the reports here, there are TSOs think they've made the Big Catch™ whenever an ETD swab is positive. While I agree that an ETD positive is in almost all cases not a false positive for the ETD, you're largely arguing semantics.

You cant imagine how often that happens around here. But in any case, this is not the proper forum for “discussion of checkpoint policy”. We can continue this in the proper forum if you wish, and I would enjoy such a conversation.