American Express Membership Rewards - Frustrating (non-)upgrade experiences with FHR (Fine Hotels and Resorts)

I've been having hit & miss experiences with the American Express FHR (Fine Hotels and Resorts) program lately.

My understanding of the program is that when you book a room at a hotel through the Amex FHR program, you will be upgraded upon check-in contingent on availability. My reservation confirmations always say "Room upgrade subject to availability at time of check-in". Hence I always arrive hoping for an upgrade, but not expecting one unless there is availability.

Recently at two very fine establishments, I have been refused an upgrade at check-in, not because of lack of availability, but because management claims the room I booked was "not eligible" for the upgrade. That is, rooms were available, but I was told I couldn't upgrade into them. (I'm currently at such a property and in the interest of being polite, I'm not going to mention where I am, although I'm very tempted.)

I have never seen a list of restrictions on the eligibility for upgrades based on room category for any properties in the FHR program. I'm wondering if anyone knows of any such restrictions. Incidentally, I'm booking through Amex Canada, and the only fine print they list on their web site is this footnote:

7. To receive Fine Hotels & Resorts program (FHR) amenities and rates, reservation must be booked with a Platinum Card in FHR negotiated rates and room categories through Platinum Card Travel Service. Payment must be made with an American Express Card in the Platinum Card member’s name. Room upgrade based on availability. Limit one amenity per room, per stay. Amenity restrictions vary by hotel, are subject to change, and cannot be redeemed for cash. Platinum Card members may book up to three (3) rooms inclusive of FHR rates and amenities and must accompany the party as a guest for which FHR reservations are made. In the event the Platinum Card member cancels the reservation(s), FHR rates and amenities will no longer apply to any remaining reservation(s). Back-to-back stays within a 24-hour period at a single FHR property are considered one stay. Benefit value based on double occupancy. Actual value varies by property, length and date of stay. $450 value is based on a $80 breakfast credit, $100 special amenity, and a $365 value for 4 pm check-out based on fees charged for late checkout of generally 50% of the daily rate, based on an average daily rate of $730. (Source: http://www.americanexpress.com/canada/the-platinum-card)

That is, there doesn't seem to be any restriction on which room types are eligible and which are not. Yet hotels are claiming such restrictions exist. I'm getting pretty fed up with this.

Has anyone had similar experiences? Solutions? Thanks in advance.

The program rules specify a one-category upgrade subject to availability at check in (except where a confirmed upgrade is the special amenity). If you book a superior room and the next category up is deluxe, which has no availability, but the next (two up) category of grand deluxe does have availability, you will not necessarily get the upgrade. In addition, some properties limit upgrades, for example not beyond a junior suite, which means that if you book the junior suite, they might not give you an upgrade even if deluxe junior suites are available. If you call, the PTS agents should be able to tell you which categories can upgrade into what according to program rules. Sometimes it makes sense strategically to reserve a slightly more expensive room to get a significant upgrade.

Like in the hotel chain programs, some properties are just significantly better than others in having upgrade availability or going above and beyond to find an upgrade above what the program rules require.

IME when you report an upgrade that you should have had but it wasn't offered, PTS takes it very seriously.

http://www.rateyourfhrstay.com/

if you dont check contract with FHR before booking/stay... (you just ask FHR agent to do this)

The program rules specify a one-category upgrade subject to availability at check in (except where a confirmed upgrade is the special amenity). If you book a superior room and the next category up is deluxe, which has no availability, but the next (two up) category of grand deluxe does have availability, you will not necessarily get the upgrade. In addition, some properties limit upgrades, for example not beyond a junior suite, which means that if you book the junior suite, they might not give you an upgrade even if deluxe junior suites are available. If you call, the PTS agents should be able to tell you which categories can upgrade into what according to program rules. Sometimes it makes sense strategically to reserve a slightly more expensive room to get a significant upgrade.

Like in the hotel chain programs, some properties are just significantly better than others in having upgrade availability or going above and beyond to find an upgrade above what the program rules require.

IME when you report an upgrade that you should have had but it wasn't offered, PTS takes it very seriously.

This is what I'm saying - the PTS did not specify any restrictions in the ability to upgrade (and in fact indicated in the notes to the hotel that I'm a plat customer so please UG) and the written reservation did not indicate any restrictions. Upon arrival, the hotel claimed a restriction prevented ability to UG.

The hotel is apparently looking into the matter, and took steps to make up for the mix-up, so I'm satisfied for the moment (though still bummed about the frustration at check-in). I'm bothered that this keeps happening and wonder what is the source of the repeated mix-ups.

On a previous stay with a different hotel, I asked the PTS agent to confirm with the hotel that the UG was possible from the room category I booked, and they did so by calling the hotel. Yet up on arrival the same thing happened - check-in agent and the front desk manager denied an UG even though space was available, claiming the reservation was not eligible for an UG.

Irritating.

I've booked perhaps 5 FHR reservations over the past year. None of them have been upgraded at check-in, so this seems to be an expanding and unfortunate trend. Perhaps I'm just unlucky or choose very busy hotels.

I've booked perhaps 5 FHR reservations over the past year. None of them have been upgraded at check-in, so this seems to be an expanding and unfortunate trend. Perhaps I'm just unlucky or choose very busy hotels.

i've been upgraded every time...

bellagio - standard room to a junior suite

venetian - standard room to a bella suite

encore las vegas - standard room to a tower suite

the phoenician - standard room to a casita suite

Park Hyatt Tokyo, Peninsula Chicago, Peninsula Tokyo, Mandarin Oriental Las Vegas, Oberoi Agra

I've booked perhaps 5 FHR reservations over the past year. None of them have been upgraded at check-in, so this seems to be an expanding and unfortunate trend. Perhaps I'm just unlucky or choose very busy hotels.

Could you name the property and date?
Maybe we should create new thread about "failed upgrade" with FHR.

Could you name the property and date?
Maybe we should create new thread about "failed upgrade" with FHR.

See the post above yours for the properties. I could research the dates, but I suspect many others have the same experience as I do.

Don't get me wrong, I've been upgraded many times over the years. Recently, it seems the better hotels have been holding back.

Park Hyatt Tokyo, Peninsula Chicago, Peninsula Tokyo, Mandarin Oriental Las Vegas, Oberoi Agra

UG or no-UG?

UG or no-UG?

In his post, Nicksta says none of the FHR stays have been upgraded.

I actually choose my room category based on the likelihood of upgrade. If it seems likely, I'll book one category down from the room I really want. If it's a busy time or there's a special event, I'll just book the room I want. It's worked for me for the past 10 years that I've been booking FHR stays (knock on wood)...

http://www.rateyourfhrstay.com/

ha! thought at first that this was a FTer-created site that allows savvy travelers to rate and find the most upgrade-friendly FHR places.

Park Hyatt Tokyo, Peninsula Chicago, Peninsula Tokyo, Mandarin Oriental Las Vegas, Oberoi Agra

I received a very nice upgrade at the Park Hyatt Tokyo.

stayed at the US Grant Hotel in san diego last night, booked the lowest standard room - superior, was upgraded to a Landmark Suite

$100 resort credit
$80 breakfast credit

booked $179 rate

Do most here book online for FHR?

Here in Canada, you have to book by phone, and I have had disappointing results with the reservation process each time, to the point of avoiding calling at all anymore.

If you could book online I would consider trying again, but I get stressed out just thinking about the aggravation of calling them.

Do most here book online for FHR?

Here in Canada, you have to book by phone, and I have had disappointing results with the reservation process each time, to the point of avoiding calling at all anymore.

If you could book online I would consider trying again, but I get stressed out just thinking about the aggravation of calling them.Here in the UK we have to book via phone to Amex too (no online booking facility) but in general I've found most of the agents fairly good about knowing what can/can't be upgraded. For example I stayed at the Four Seasons Carmelo, Uruguay last year in a bi-level suite. They told me at the time of booking that it wouldn't be eligible for an upgrade, but they did manage to negotiate with the hotel for me around the welcome gift offered (2x dinner). Similarly for a stay at the Palais De La Mediterranee in Nice, France they were quite clear which rates were available that would have upgrade potential. However in this case the hotel themselves were offering a rate with stay credit that was in the upgraded category of room at a lower cost so I booked that instead (actually via Expedia with some bonus cashback :D). However I can really sympathise with the OP and others when they specifically ask the question of Amex when booking then get a different approach from front desk staff when checking in.

Do most here book online for FHR?

Here in Canada, you have to book by phone, and I have had disappointing results with the reservation process each time, to the point of avoiding calling at all anymore.


I have amex plat US, and i booked online. So far i've scored 3/3 for UG.
But i did have minor problem when trying to amend upcoming trip via phone (adding hotel loyalty# to reservation).
They somehow accidentally changed the rate. But it's sorted real quick after another phone (and sending old confirmation with original rate).

I remember calling the hotel (hotel not named to protect their identity as it is one of my favourite hotels) after I made a reservation at the FHR rate with Platinum PTS.

The in-house reservations manager was able to to "guarantee" my upgrade to the next category (instead of having it on a "space available basis") after I negotiated with them a rate that is in between the FHR rate of my original category and the next category. In this case, the price differential between the categories was quite significant.

Eg. Standard Suite FHR $900
Deluxe Suite FHR $1800
My negotiated rate for "guaranteed upgrade" to Deluxe Suite: $1350

Is this against FHR program rules? or is it actually possible to "negotiate" with the hotel directly after the FHR reservation is made (like I have done)?

This is becoming more common because more programs outside of FHR are offering upgrades on arrival. Hotels are becoming smarter so they will limit the rooms that will upgrade.

Make sure you talk to a PTS consultant and have them CALL the hotel to find out which categories will upgrade.

FHR upgrades the majority of the time. I've had better experience with them than other programs.

Another good thing about FHR is that you can book the lower rate ( in case they are not giving out upgrades), then when you get to the hotel know the category that upgrades and ask to go to the category that will upgrade.

I used Visa Signature (joke - Kiwi) three weeks ago and it was a cluster. FHR a week later had no issues. With FHR I knew that regular rooms did not upgrade to suites, but suites upgraded to villas. If you know this...you won't be surprised.

This is the kind of thing that drives me nuts about FHR/Centurion.

Orient Express advertises a free upgrade at time of booking for Centurion, for FHR it's at arrival time. Breakfasts, a dinner for two if you stay more than 3 days, 4pm late checkout, etc.

Checking the price of Napasai in Thailand online gives a rack rate of 18,300 baht for a higher end suite.

FHR's price for the same suite is 18,300. Problem #1, the hotel doesn't allow you to upgrade on arrival, picking and choosing from the FHR amenities, if you were not paranoid like me you would be denied this amenity on arrival and surprised.

So the FHR price bundles in continental breakfasts and a 4pm checkout.

This same package is available on their website for 19,100 baht, an incremental charge of about $25.00, plus gives the dinner for two (which will beat the $25/day charge) and an airport transfer (so now you're ahead of FHR in value for a four day stay since if you bought a two way transfer it would cost you at least $100).

Centurion's package with the free upgrade... well the price is still 18,300 baht for this room, including the free upgrade. So what they've done is jacked up the price before the upgrade, then given you the upgrade "for free".

It doesn't include the airport transfer. Given what five star hotels charge for this, you are looking at saving $25/day over the package above, but losing the transfer, so you will kind of break even.

In the end, Orient Express, and Amex FHR have advertised:

1. free breakfasts
2. 4pm checkout
3. free upgrade at time of booking
4. massage for two
5. free dinner

All as part of the Centurion Hotel Program.

What they have delivered is something that anyone can book right off of the website and receive the identical value, or even better value.

So what is the point exactly of offering all of these things "for free" while jacking up the price of the base package before adding in amenities "for free?"

It would seem to be to deceive the customer into thinking that value is being provided, when in effect, none at all is being provided. It's meant to attract business at no cost from people holding Amex cards, i.e. a demographic that's considered to be affluent (and I guess, stupid).

The more that Amex allows hotels to play this bait and switch game, the more FHR is devalued, the more the Amex and Centurion brands are devalued.

Hotels should not be allowed to pick and choose which amenities they support in this program. The program says upgrade if available, hotel should not get to define the meaning of the word "available" (i.e. available if we say it is, if we say it isn't then it isn't). Hotels should not be allowed to jack up the base price of a package before adding on "free amenities".

It's like saying your plane ticket is free but you have to pay $900 for a scammy "fuel surcharge" and $100 for a scammy "bag fee" ... oh wait... dammit.

tyberius's post has been combined with a similar recent discussion about FHR upgrades.


The program says upgrade if available, hotel should not get to define the meaning of the word "available" (i.e. available if we say it is, if we say it isn't then it isn't).

To be sure I understand correctly, your complaint is essentially that an upgrade was not available? How would you propose that FHR could make this benefit more transparent?

To be sure I understand correctly, your complaint is essentially that an upgrade was not available? How would you propose that FHR could make this benefit more transparent?My impression was more that tyberius was saying that FHR offer the potential for upgrade at check-in but in many cases you could book that upgraded category of room, often with additional benefits by going direct to the property - ie. that they're offering a benefit that really doesn't provide any saving. IME this varies by property and sadly means (if you want decent value for money) that you have to check things out yourself too. I've had a case where the FHR rate was identical to the hotel's direct cost but with a definite dinner for two and possibility of upgrade, however in another case I was able to buy a room direct from the hotel in the category FHR would have (potentially) upgraded me to, along with F&B credit for substantially less than FHR were offering.

Summary - FHR has some potential benefit but is very much a case of buyer-beware - if you want to make sure you're getting a good deal you need to do some legwork yourself and can't rely on Amex.

With the number of hotels around the world, there have been plenty of real deals versus so so deals. Trips to China, Europe and Latin America have been much better for me personally in terms of upgrades and a real value proposition than the US (Vegas being the exception).

My impression was more that tyberius was saying that FHR offer the potential for upgrade at check-in but in many cases you could book that upgraded category of room, often with additional benefits by going direct to the property - ie. that they're offering a benefit that really doesn't provide any saving. IME this varies by property and sadly means (if you want decent value for money) that you have to check things out yourself too. I've had a case where the FHR rate was identical to the hotel's direct cost but with a definite dinner for two and possibility of upgrade, however in another case I was able to buy a room direct from the hotel in the category FHR would have (potentially) upgraded me to, along with F&B credit for substantially less than FHR were offering.

Summary - FHR has some potential benefit but is very much a case of buyer-beware - if you want to make sure you're getting a good deal you need to do some legwork yourself and can't rely on Amex.

Completely agree. My rule is that if FHR is more money, I need to see the quantifiable difference coming back to me. (e.g. if they are $100 more, than I better be getting $100 of benefit out of the free breakfast and the "gift").

The upgrade in my book is worthless because most of the time you can't even tell if you got an upgrade.

I ask and they say yes - we upgraded you. Best example is at a Ritz/Four Seasons where you cannot really tell the difference between a Superior or a Deluxe room...so sure - you got an upgrade