Amtrak Guest Rewards - Top three improvements

What are the top three things you'd like to see Amtrak improve over the next year (or sooner?)

For me, it would be:

1) Faster and more reliable on-board wi-fi
2) Enhancements to the S+ benefits (or as discussed in a previous thread, the creation of a S++ level)
3) Renovated lounges, particularly in NY and DC

1. NO LINES when boarding. There is really no reason to make people queue up at NYP, WAS or even Charlotte before boarding. Just let people walk to the platform and board when the train is ready.

2. I'd upgrade Amtrak's first class sleeping car product. My Crescent trip was wonderful, but mostly because I had 12+ uninterrupted hours in a very comfortable room. But it didn't have things that I'd expect on an airline- such as free adult beverages (even just give people a coupon for 1 free drink in the lounge car), for example.

3. Roll out e-ticketing systemwide.

1. Daily Cardinal, I want to take the train to/from Cincy but my schedule never aligns.

2. Amtrak "Dining for Miles", this is one of the features all the airline programs have that AGR does not. I would switch my earning preference in the first week of rollout.

3. Additional late night trips on corridor routes, the lack of this on westbound Keystone and northbound Hiawatha have made me modify other travel plans.

1) Faster and more reliable on-board wi-fi
Sure they can improve the WiFi situation, but isn't using your phone's 3G/4G connection always going to be the better option by far?

Sure they can improve the WiFi situation, but isn't using your phone's 3G/4G connection always going to be the better option by far?

Well, my company does not allow us to expense aircards or the tethering option, so if I want to use my laptop (which I do, it's one of the primary reasons I take the Acela, vs flying), i'd prefer to have an improved wifi connection on board.

1. NO LINES when boarding. There is really no reason to make people queue up at NYP, WAS or even Charlotte before boarding. Just let people walk to the platform and board when the train is ready.

Actually the lines in NY & DC are more the passenger's idea than Amtrak's. This is especially true in DC, where people already know what door to stand next to for boarding. Amtrak doesn't tell them to line up, they do that on their own in their zeal to try to rush out and get the best seat.

2. I'd upgrade Amtrak's first class sleeping car product. My Crescent trip was wonderful, but mostly because I had 12+ uninterrupted hours in a very comfortable room. But it didn't have things that I'd expect on an airline- such as free adult beverages (even just give people a coupon for 1 free drink in the lounge car), for example.

It might be nice, but alas far too many American's still believe that they're subsidizing a luxury land cruise for people in sleepers. They're not, those riding in a sleeper actually cover their extra costs associated with the sleepers and then some, to the point that the subsidy per coach passenger would be higher if the sleepers went away.

But alas, perception is what matters and if Amtrak were to increase the luxuries, the outcry would grow even more. :(

3. Roll out e-ticketing systemwide.

It's coming! Very soon.

Baring any last minute snags of course. But they're real close.

Actually the lines in NY & DC are more the passenger's idea than Amtrak's. This is especially true in DC, where people already know what door to stand next to for boarding. Amtrak doesn't tell them to line up, they do that on their own in their zeal to try to rush out and get the best seat.



It might be nice, but alas far too many American's still believe that they're subsidizing a luxury land cruise for people in sleepers. They're not, those riding in a sleeper actually cover their extra costs associated with the sleepers and then some, to the point that the subsidy per coach passenger would be higher if the sleepers went away.

But alas, perception is what matters and if Amtrak were to increase the luxuries, the outcry would grow even more. :(



It's coming! Very soon.

Baring any last minute snags of course. But they're real close.

Re: lines: there is no reason to check tickets at the station door leading to the platforms AND when you board the train AND once you're on board the train. Amtrak, just open the station door leading to the platforms, and let people head out to the platform when they want. That's how it works at Grand Central and every European train station that I've been to, including on high-speed lines. Even if it's not Amtrak making people line up, there is no reason to make people wait in Charlotte and have tickets checked repeatedly, and Amtrak does that.

Re: sleeping cars: when I first took the Viewliner-equipped Crescent, I recall getting a celebratory mug and a small bag of free toiletries.

Re: lines: there is no reason to check tickets at the station door leading to the platforms AND when you board the train AND once you're on board the train. Amtrak, just open the station door leading to the platforms, and let people head out to the platform when they want. That's how it works at Grand Central and every European train station that I've been to, including on high-speed lines. Even if it's not Amtrak making people line up, there is no reason to make people wait in Charlotte and have tickets checked repeatedly, and Amtrak does that.

Well I suspect that part of that today is the needed security theater to help keep the TSA out of Amtrak's affairs. Part of it, especially at NYP is to help control crowding on the rather small width platforms. And part of it is the shear number of people boarding the wrong trains and Amtrak having to deal with those people.

Re: sleeping cars: when I first took the Viewliner-equipped Crescent, I recall getting a celebratory mug and a small bag of free toiletries.

Actually, that is starting to make a small comeback. One now gets a bag of toiletries on the Empire Builder and the Coast Starlight.

1. IRROPS information that is actually informative. I am heartily sick of learning about downed wires, trucks running into bridges, flooded tracks, etc. from the local newspapers rather than Amtrak agents. There is just nothing more aggravating than going into NYP to see the entire Amtrak lineup reading "delayed" and absolutely no information available from anywhere in the system, be it human or electronic.

2. Wi-fi that is actually usable on the NEC.

3. Better snack mix on Acela FC. ;) I'm tired of picking out all of those raisins. We want warm nuts! :D

Well, my company does not allow us to expense aircards or the tethering option, so if I want to use my laptop (which I do, it's one of the primary reasons I take the Acela, vs flying), i'd prefer to have an improved wifi connection on board.Oh, mine doesn't, either, but the $30/month is totally worth it, getting a few hours of catch-up time online, even if it's only twice/week for me, while in transit.

This wish list would be:

1. Less stops on the Northeast Corridor, at least for some trains. That way, you can run premium trains like the Acela at higher speeds, like it was originally designed for. This would probably require coordination for more local train connections at major hubs, among other things.

2. Retain and improve priority boarding through Club Acela. Improvements are especially needed at WAS, where priority boarding should be made for all trains and done consistently. Priority boarding is currently not possible for some trains at WAS because of the existing station/platform layout.

3. Implement Metropolitan Lounges at Los Angeles Union Station and perhaps in the Bay Area at Emeryville, where there is high passenger traffic connecting to mainline trains.

1. Less stops on the Northeast Corridor, at least for some trains. That way, you can run premium trains like the Acela at higher speeds, like it was originally designed for. This would probably require coordination for more local train connections at major hubs, among other things.


Amtrak has already tried twice to run a limited stop Acela between DC & NY, not that it makes all that many stops anyhow, and both times the trains have failed for lack of ridership.

Amtrak has already tried twice to run a limited stop Acela between DC & NY, not that it makes all that many stops anyhow, and both times the trains have failed for lack of ridership.

I was getting ready to post exactly this. IIRC it was only about 15 minutes faster WAS-NYP, probably because it had to pass through BAL, WIL, NWK, etc. at lower speeds, but yeah, it's been tried.

Sure they can improve the WiFi situation, but isn't using your phone's 3G/4G connection always going to be the better option by far?

This is probably better dealt with in a separate thread, but IME: not always.

There are times, even on the NEC, where my Verizon 4G Mifi will drop down to 1x and become practically unusable. And in rural areas (like the Pennsylvanian's run to Pittsburgh), the Mifi will lose signal completely. The Amtrak wifi plods on, though, even though the speed may leave something to be desired (and on the Pennsylvanian, I actually found it reasonably speedy--probably because the number of business travelers trying to use it was comparatively low--many passengers were sleeping, and only a small number had laptops out, and most of those were watching locally-stored movies).

The company that Amtrak uses to provide the infrastructure, Nomad Digital, has developed a pretty sophisticated system that uses eight wireless data cards for access to four cellular networks (AT&T, Verizon, Sprint, and T-Mobile) and actively manages the connection based on GPS position data in conjunction with known, surveyed cell network signal strength to ensure the strongest network is used at any given time. (There's an interesting article on that at Forbes. (http://www.forbes.com/sites/marcwebertobias/2011/11/30/amtrakconnect-internet-service-on-a-speeding-train/)).

Given that Amtrak has access to four carriers while I only have access to one (two, if you count my AT&T phone, but I don't have tethering enabled), it is my experience that the connection is more stable and reliable than my Verizon Mifi. However, the speeds can be anywhere from quite usable to downright abysmal, and when approaching a populated area, I'll usually switch to my Mifi in hopes of catching a 4G signal.

According to that article and other sources I've seen, the Nomad Digital solution used by Amtrak does not yet incorporate 4G. It should be relatively trivial to upgrade the on-board routers with 4G data cards, so I'm not sure what the delay is, but I have definitely noticed that the on-board wifi does not show any increase in speed when moving from a 3G to a 4G area (at least when testing by watching the indicator light on my Mifi switch to 4G but remaining connected to the on-board wifi). The article seems to indicate that the 4G upgrade is in the works, though, and given that the article is now eight months old, I remain hopeful that the upgrade will start appearing soon.

(It is interesting to note that Amtrak has 10+mbps of bandwidth available to each train while Gogo only offers an aggregate bandwidth of about 1mbps to each aircraft. The difference is mitigated slightly by the fact that Gogo operates a dedicated network, whereas Amtrak is sharing its bandwidth with other users of the cell towers it passes by, but on the whole, I seem to notice better speeds with Amtrak than I do when flying.)

I was getting ready to post exactly this. IIRC it was only about 15 minutes faster WAS-NYP, probably because it had to pass through BAL, WIL, NWK, etc. at lower speeds, but yeah, it's been tried.

My point is, if Acela's fastest travel time between WAS and NYP is 2 hours 40 minutes and if there is a 15 minute savings in less stops, then the total travel time on Acela is 2 hours 25 minutes from WAS to NYP. If you have a business meeting to attend to or you are making other connections, 2 hours 25 minutes is really fast for Acela and those minutes do count.

And, if less stops have been tried and the ridership was down, well, that was then, this is now. Ridership patterns have changed, haven't they? I mean what's the point of having Acela stop at a place like Metropark when NE Regional and NJTransit can be doing the same thing? Plus NE Regional has added stops on weekends at Aberdeen and Newark, DE because there is no train service otherwise to those stops on weekends, right? Don't you think that really reduced train speeds on the NE Regional? On those trains, it takes forever to get from PHL to WAS simply because of those added stops. I'd say, the local trains like NJ, SEPTA and MARC could be covering those stops and let Amtrak take care of the big city pairs.

Tony,

The last time that Amtrak tried an express was only about two years ago; I don't think that things have changed that much since then. They also tried it shortly after Acela first launched too.

As for Metropark, that station saw 396,902 riders last year. You don't ignore that many riders. Heck, Newark only had 683,626, and Newark also gets long distance riders in addition to Acela & Regional riders. Metropark sees no long distance trains.

I see that I must correct myself, it has been a bit more than 2 years since Amtrak last tried a super Acela Express. It was last tried back in 2008, but I rather doubt that things have changed enough to warrant another test yet.

And that train left DC at 3:55 PM, ran non-stop to Philly departing there at 5:23, and then ran non-stop to New York arriving at 6:30 for a total run time of 2:35. It was train #2120 and the schedule can be found here (http://www.timetables.org/full.php?group=20080121&item=0045).

1. More lounges! Long distance stations like Los Angeles and Seattle and east coast business cities like Baltimore and New Haven should have lounges for sleeper passengers and F Class Acela passengers.

2. A better Northeast Regional Business Class product. With how high the price difference can be, sitting in the same seats I would in coach but with a free soda and paper is hardly worth it.

3. Quik Trak machines at every station. Probably outlandish but it would be nice.

1. More lounges! Long distance stations like Los Angeles and Seattle and east coast business cities like Baltimore and New Haven should have lounges for sleeper passengers and F Class Acela passengers.

Not real sure about Baltimore & New Haven, as frankly they may not have enough traffic to justify a lounge. Amtrak would love to have one in LA, but to date AFAIK it has been rebuffed by the former management of the station. Perhaps things may change with the local commuter system taking over the station. Amtrak has a quasi FC lounge that they setup in the bar for the northbound Coast Starlight, since it leaves before the bar opens. Unfortunately, that doesn't work for any other departure.

And rumor has it that one will be added to Seattle as the renovations continue. That's not confirmed, things could still change. But last I heard both Amtrak and the city of Seattle, which owns the station, want one.

2. A better Northeast Regional Business Class product. With how high the price difference can be, sitting in the same seats I would in coach but with a free soda and paper is hardly worth it.

Well unlike coach, you are guaranteed that they'll never oversell the train. One more perk.

This is not so say that it wouldn't be nice to see better seats or something.

3. Quik Trak machines at every station. Probably outlandish but it would be nice.

No real point anymore with eTicketing so close.

I see that I must correct myself, it has been a bit more than 2 years since Amtrak last tried a super Acela Express. It was last tried back in 2008, but I rather doubt that things have changed enough to warrant another test yet.

And that train left DC at 3:55 PM, ran non-stop to Philly departing there at 5:23, and then ran non-stop to New York arriving at 6:30 for a total run time of 2:35. It was train #2120 and the schedule can be found here (http://www.timetables.org/full.php?group=20080121&item=0045).

Thanks, Alan B for the 2008 schedule. That was the year that I moved conveniently to WAS area of the NE Corridor. Much appreciate the history, now that I'm a frequent Acela customer and customer on other NEC trains as well.

Yes, you are right, you don't ignore riders at places like Metropark. My point is, why can't Acela just go to the major city pairs just like their counterparts in other parts of the world do, e.g. Eurostar goes from London to Lille then to BRU, etc. Metropark can still be served by NE Regional or NJTransit. I mean, Metropark has a lot of park and ride connections and there is employment there but it's really a local stop where it could be served more efficiently by local trains and then transfers at major hubs.

Yes, you are right, you don't ignore riders at places like Metropark. My point is, why can't Acela just go to the major city pairs just like their counterparts in other parts of the world do, e.g. Eurostar goes from London to Lille then to BRU, etc. Metropark can still be served by NE Regional or NJTransit. I mean, Metropark has a lot of park and ride connections and there is employment there but it's really a local stop where it could be served more efficiently by local trains and then transfers at major hubs.

Well since I'm not privy to the raw data, I can't really say for sure. But I have to believe that the number of boarding/alightings in MET for Acela are just too high to totally ignore it as a stop. And not every Acela stops there. On weekdays, in general if an Acela stops at BWI, then it skips MET. And if it skips BWI, then it stops at MET.

why can't Acela just go to the major city pairs just like their counterparts in other parts of the world do, e.g. Eurostar goes from London to Lille then to BRU, etc.

In areas with population density similar that of the Northeast, plenty of high-speed trains make lots of stops. Look at the Thalys (France-Low Countries-Germany) map:

http://www.thalys.com/be/fr/destinations

Well since I'm not privy to the raw data, I can't really say for sure. But I have to believe that the number of boarding/alightings in MET for Acela are just too high to totally ignore it as a stop. And not every Acela stops there. On weekdays, in general if an Acela stops at BWI, then it skips MET. And if it skips BWI, then it stops at MET.

Ah, that's something good to remember. Thanks for the insight regarding some of these stops. I'm just saying that some trains don't have to stop at every stop. If every NE Regional and Acela train stopped at the same stops as some of the local trains, you wouldn't have a difference in service quality between one train and the next. OTOH, you've pointed out something interesting. Alternating the stops like you just mentioned would improve speeds and make a difference in service quality between one type of service versus another.

In areas with population density similar that of the Northeast, plenty of high-speed trains make lots of stops. Look at the Thalys (France-Low Countries-Germany) map:

http://www.thalys.com/be/fr/destinations

Yes, the only thing with Thalys however, is that the stop distances between some of those cities are far in between. NE Corridor stops are closer together and therefore can slow down high speed trains tremendously if those trains have to stop at every stop.

Yes, the only thing with Thalys however, is that the stop distances between some of those cities are far in between. NE Corridor stops are closer together and therefore can slow down high speed trains tremendously if those trains have to stop at every stop.

Here's another then: Fyra, the Belgian/Dutch high-speed train:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fyra
http://www.fyra.com/index.php?page=home-fr&hl=fr_FR

Amsterdam-Brussels will be 1:46 with 5 stops. I recall that before Fyra, it took about 2 1/2 hours on a conventional glorified commuter train.

Here's another then: Fyra, the Belgian/Dutch high-speed train:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fyra
http://www.fyra.com/index.php?page=home-fr&hl=fr_FR

Amsterdam-Brussels will be 1:46 with 5 stops. I recall that before Fyra, it took about 2 1/2 hours on a conventional glorified commuter train.

Thanks for sharing the links about Fyra. I've been on Fyra when it first started service. I've also been on Thalys and regional trains from BRU to AMS. Between BRU and AMS, it took more than new trains and stop locations to get higher speeds. Both Fyra and Thalys are sharing new track in at least in the Netherlands portion of the line. With new track infrastructure, Fyra and Thalys are able to dramatically improve speeds along this line, even though there are four or five stops in between.

So, it would be great to see what the vision will be for the NE Corridor in the future. Will it involve many infrastructure improvements to improve speeds? Also, will there be more of a difference in service on the Acela versus other NE Corridor trains to allow for speed improvement?

Amsterdam to Brussels is under 110 miles. In 1:46, that's an average speed of about 63 mph--slower than the Acela.

Amtrak has a new 2040 plan, which calls for $150+ billion to totally rebuild basically a new Northeast Corridor. Never going to happen, but I think that targeted infrastructure improvements (such as new catenary in NJ, allowing 160-mph operation) will happen.

Thanks for your observations about train service between BRU and AMS, the comparison between that and Acela and Amtrak plans for the future. I'm glad that investments in the NE Corridor are made for both short and long term.

Let's if anyone else has their wish list for top three improvements. :)

Would like to see 1-2 seating in Regional Business. I've never seen it anywhere close to full, so they can do without 25% of the seats.

Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry8320/4.5.0.81 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/100)

One minor change I would like is for them to put AGR Elite status on the tickets.

Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry8320/4.5.0.81 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/100)

One minor change I would like is for them to put AGR Elite status on the tickets.

Of course easily half of Amtrak's employee's wouldn't know what that even meant. Many have no clue about AGR Status; a few don't even seem to know about AGR at all.

And sadly there are at least a few who couldn't care less about status. One friend of mine with Select Plus went into the Met Lounge in Chicago several months ago and after showing his card to gain entry, the attendant checking him in turns to the other one and right in front of my friend says "We shouldn't have to be bothered with this nonsense" or something to that effect. Clearly, that attendant either had no clue about what it takes to achieve Select Plus status or he couldn't have cared less that he had one of Amtrak's best customers standing in front of him; since it was such an inconvenience to have to do less work than normal to checkin someone without a sleeper ticket.

Besides, tickets are going away very soon, so it won't really matter at all.

Besides, tickets are going away very soon, so it won't really matter at all.
Status is shown on airline boarding documents, either paper or electronic. Even once system-wide e-ticketing is underway later this month, the suggestion is still a good one, if for no other reason to show some acknowledgment of Amtrak's appreciation of the passenger's status.

My point is, why can't Acela just go to the major city pairs just like their counterparts in other parts of the world do, e.g. Eurostar goes from London to Lille then to BRU, etc.

Probably any number of differences in social geography: more centralized population, better last-mile transit services within cities there (necessitating fewer suburban stops by "mainline" services), and a richer schedule of local and express trains overall.


So, it would be great to see what the vision will be for the NE Corridor in the future. Will it involve many infrastructure improvements to improve speeds?

Amtrak has recently released a long-term vision that includes true 220 MPH high-speed service (which I might be able to take when I'm retired), and it's genuinely a little bit exciting:
http://www.amtrak.com/ccurl/214/393/A-Vision-for-High-Speed-Rail-in-the-Northeast-Corridor.pdf
http://www.amtrak.com/ccurl/453/325/Amtrak-Vision-for-the-Northeast-Corridor.pdf

To get to 220 MPH, basically a whole new mainline railroad is needed. New tunnels underneath several cities and a less-curvy, inland replacement for the Shore Line are the biggest-ticket items.

1. Couchette cars
2. Nicer employees
3. Better last mile integration with local transit systems.

Probably any number of differences in social geography: more centralized population, better last-mile transit services within cities there (necessitating fewer suburban stops by "mainline" services), and a richer schedule of local and express trains overall.



Amtrak has recently released a long-term vision that includes true 220 MPH high-speed service (which I might be able to take when I'm retired), and it's genuinely a little bit exciting:
http://www.amtrak.com/ccurl/214/393/A-Vision-for-High-Speed-Rail-in-the-Northeast-Corridor.pdf
http://www.amtrak.com/ccurl/453/325/Amtrak-Vision-for-the-Northeast-Corridor.pdf

To get to 220 MPH, basically a whole new mainline railroad is needed. New tunnels underneath several cities and a less-curvy, inland replacement for the Shore Line are the biggest-ticket items.

Yup, you bet... I also read this article about the Acela and the NE Corridor High Speed Rail Vision from the recent High Speed Rail conference in Philadelphia:

http://www.masstransitmag.com/news/10745470/pa-amtraks-acela-more-cannonball-than-bullet?utm_source=MASS+NewsViews+Newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=MASS120717002&o_eid=0330E2882612G3U

My top improvement:

A train from the Twin Cities to Chicago that would reliably (say, 4 out of 5 times) not be more than three hours late.

Schedule changes announced well in advance, preferably at the same time or times each year. Summer and winter or as in the past, to coincide with daylight savings time. There's nothing worse than leaving the country and coming back to an unknown rail schedule. (Note that I don't leave the U.S. very often and when I do, usually do not have regular access to internet.) For a while it seemed as if the schedule changed every time I left the U.S.

1) ability to upgrade online without then having to present the coupon at the ticket window
2) nicer staff ESP in lounges and acela first class. Some are absolutely top notch, an some treat passengers with utter contempt and feigned politeness.
3) s++. I hit s+ pretty early in the year.

1. First Class lounges on the Empire Builder, California Zephyr and Southwest Chief. A la Pacific Parlour Car.
2. New and professional employees in the Chicago First Class lounge.
3. An Empire Builder that operates on time.