Miles & More (Lufthansa, Austrian, Swiss, and other partners) - Lufthansa: Two teenagers accuse airline of ill-treatment

Haven't seen any post regarding this "issue".
No judgement from my side, just sharing this:

http://www.dnaindia.com/blogs/post_helpless-at-frankfurt-due-to-heartless-lufthansa_1709916-all

That's the "national newspaper" article:
http://www.mumbaimirror.com/article/2/2012070320120703020748237ddb2eea2/Two-teenagers-accuse-airline-of-illtreatment.html



http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/members/oliver2002-albums-club-ren-picture4900-a.jpg

I am by no means an LH apologist, but various statements don´t add up in the teenagers´ report.

Sounds like two over-emotional, inexperienced teenagers who went to the duty-free shop instead of waiting for boarding, missed their flight and had to deal with the consequences.

It´s pretty much impossible that boarding hadn´t started yet, they "briefly went to the shop across the gate" and when they returned hundreds of pax had suddenly disappeared. It takes 20-30min to board a plane, and I´m being optimistic here.

Sure, many LH staff at FRA aren´t necessarily the most helpful people in this universe, but based on the info it seems like the girls screwed up.

I am by no means an LH apologist, but various statements don´t add up in the teenagers´ report.
+1

I would also add some cultural differences into that play - w/o any judgement I must admit that there must be a significant difference in perception of two Asian-born teenagers being almost at home and (not always too-human) German airline focused on flawless process & execution.

mfk

So, we've two girls, staying in two different German cities, then travelling via FRA to India.

The one from HAM gets some delay inbound and is put automatically on the flight via MUC. The one from BER is arriving perfectly on time, and instead of flying to India directly, wants to fly with his friend so missing her boarding time.. LH don't think that's fun from her side, tells her to fly next day (and of course pay the change fee) which she don't want as she still wants to fly with her friend (who is flying via MUC) - so she gets charged more for the change this way.

I can't see what LH did wrong. Maybe tell each and every pax that if they're booking tickets individually, starting from different places, they might not end up on the same flight if one of their feeders gets delayed. Seems that's yet another "Don't put your dog into the microwave" sticker which humanity does need oh so dearly..

edit: In her "story", found this sentence:

"We were first going to come by Austrian airlines but they stopped their operations in India early this year so we were automatically transferred to Lufthansa Airlines). But our fathers had paid the required amount in rupees in Mumbai office for the change in airlines through our travel agent."

Now it smells even more like this is totally made up. If your flight gets cancelled within the LH group, you get put onto another route to the final destination, free of charge. Either her travel agent did faked them, or something else is smelly here.

I hope LH sues them for blackmailing

Honestly, taking into account they are obviously 17 years old, I would not call this "blackmailing", especially as we do not know what really happened.

If it is correct that they did not allow boarding to one of them (maybe because of the rebooking) it might also be the case that the gate agent thought that the second pax is also rebooked.

Anyway, I do not think that 17 year old girls are the right pax to ask for rebooking fee, regardless of the issue etc.

If I were Lufthansa and I would see 2 girls of 17 years, I would do my very best to let them fly together, if I had previously rebooked one of them.

We do not know what exactly happened, and many of us know how Lufthansa is treating pax sometimes at the moment. So I would be careful of calling someone a "blackmailer" who had a problem with them, especially as these are 17 year old girls. They are not SEN travelling 20 or 50 times a year....

I mean, Lufthansa is a service provider.....

17 years is the perfect age to learn that the world doesn't revolve around you and that airlines fly on specific times (normally) and that browsing in a duty-free store instead of boarding has consequenses.

And that crying about it, doesn't (or shouldn't) make you somebody special. Don't blame the big, bad western airline....

Sounds like their travel agent changed the ticket but didn't reissue the ticket properly. Or that if it was indeed OS's fault, then the ticket had not been endorsed over correctly. Onus is to the TA really.

If your flight gets cancelled within the LH group, you get put onto another route to the final destination, free of charge.

Actually not any more... Since May LH/OS can rebook you free of charge only to its own-operated flights (regardless of the fare basis). Rebookings to other partner-airlines is free as long as the re-booking is done into the same/lower booking class. Any rebooking into higher fare basis needs to be covered by a customer.

Actually not any more... Since May LH/OS can rebook you free of charge only to its own-operated flights (regardless of the fare basis). Rebookings to other partner-airlines is free as long as the re-booking is done into the same/lower booking class. Any rebooking into higher fare basis needs to be covered by a customer.

If the airline cancels the return leg of your trip when you are already at your destination, there's no (legal) way that the airline can charge you for rebooking. It's completely their problem to get you back home.

Anyway, to me the story reads as follows:

They arrive at the gate at 1:07 pm, stay until 1:10 pm assuming that boarding hadn't even started when in reality everyone was already on board. They leave to explore the duty free area.

The gate agents wrap up their work, rebook one of the two (or even both) for the next day because her incoming was late, unload the baggage, let one more passenger through and close the flight, just when the two ladies come back.

HTB.

Anyway, I do not think that 17 year old girls are the right pax to ask for rebooking fee, regardless of the issue etc.

If I were Lufthansa and I would see 2 girls of 17 years, I would do my very best to let them fly together, if I had previously rebooked one of them.

At the age of 17 they are old enough to drink wine, to smoke and to have s€x. And if the parents let them travel alone they should not expect to be treated different from other pax. If they want to have special treatment, a nice UM sign would be the perfect solution.

Anyway, I do not think that 17 year old girls are the right pax to ask for rebooking fee, regardless of the issue etc.

If I were Lufthansa and I would see 2 girls of 17 years, I would do my very best to let them fly together, if I had previously rebooked one of them.

Whom among us didn't screw up as a teenager?

A little compassion/assistance from LH would be kind, although not legally required. If these are indeed the facts.

I'm still trying to understand why one parent apparently paid a fee in India to get them onto the LH flights when theirs were cancelled.

I'd also like to know why LH was first calculating 2 X 400 Euros and then settled for only a 150 Euro fee.

Being together on the same flight was a reasonable request even if their PNRs were required to be different.

I'm a little bit surprised that their exchange program didn't book the flights or at least pay some attention to verify that everything was reticketed correctly when the flights were cancelled. The exchange program might have also spotted the relatively tight connections for inexperienced travelers at FRA.

If flightstats.com is to be believed LH756 on 22 June departed 14 mins later than the scheduled departure time of 13:25 presumably because they had to off-load the girls' checked baggage.

LH13 HAM-FRA her friend was on arrived 6 minutes late at 12:31, so if the flight was on time she would have had 60 minutes for the connection. Her own flight LH183 TXL-FRA arrived 17 minutes late at 12:22. (Had she asked on FT if 60 minutes was enough for this connection by inexperienced travellers I would have suggested they should take earlier flights since there are frequent flights from TXL and HAM but that's another story. :p)

So she and her friend had 63 minutes and 54 minutes respectively for the connecting flight and by all accounts they made it to the departure gate in time. Like other posters I find it hard to believe that boarding had not started at 13:07 or 13:10 for a flight scheduled to depart at 13:25. As htb has pointed out it seems more likely that everyone was already on board when the girls arrived at the gate.

Undoubtedly it was a traumatic experience for 17 year-olds but some of the "facts" in the story don't add up.

Actually not any more... Since May LH/OS can rebook you free of charge only to its own-operated flights (regardless of the fare basis). Rebookings to other partner-airlines is free as long as the re-booking is done into the same/lower booking class. Any rebooking into higher fare basis needs to be covered by a customer.

Thanks for this information. Had a rebooking of a LH direct flight onto LH connecting to CA as recently as February - took some time (had to go to the airport office - the original was cheap K, the new one medium-expensive S - about 5 weeks prior to the flight) to have the changed ticket issued, old-style paperticket :rolleyes: ) - LH had cancelled the flight, and this was the only way to arrive same day.. if this won't be possible anymore now, this seems like a massive "enhancement" again.. :td: to LH indeed..

Very little adds up in this story.

They get to the gate 13:10, 15 minutes before departure and boarding hasn't started? There are 400 people in the gate area? Her friend is supposedly back at the gate at 13:12. Everyone's been sucked onto the aircraft in 2 minutes? Impossible.

The only gates in the vicinity of a duty free outlet are B19 & 20 and B41 (in my experience used exclusively for shorthaul services) with very limited visibility from the duty free outlet. LH756 (and all LH South Asian services) tend to operate from B24-28 and B44-48. Not a duty free outlet within 100 metres.
She claims to be an unaccompanied minor. She wasn't. She COULD have been - LH provides the service (mandatory for under-13s) to young people up to the age of 17 for a standard fee.
The travel agent charges them for rebooking from a non-operating OS flight to LH. Scam. The airline doesn't charge for disruption rebookings.

The fact that Aavruti Sharma is sanitising her blog by not posting critical (factual) comments, posting her own comments supporting her conspiracy theory of racism being at work and culling her own ill-considered replies to other comments confirms my suspicion that these young ladies are looking for a scapegoat to avoid explaining to Dad that they screwed up.

Very inventive, though. She should do well in politics....

As much as I dislike LH and am willing to accept that they willfully and systematically lie to extort money from pax .... but this is just the "sense of entitlement" paired with the "culture of whine".

It's bad enough that the terminology doesn't match. It's bad enough that they got BPs but then claim that the agents insist on change fees from OS to LH.
I just fear that the most valuable lesson for them to learn did no sink in: adding transparent lies to your account to make yourself look cute and innocent doesn't help your cause.

Very little adds up in this story.tlet within 100 metres.

Wow, quite an excoriating, judgmental account for someone with one post and no purported first-hand knowledge of the situation! The personal attacks by name certainly seem inappropriate, especially in light of the young girls' age.

Whom among us didn't screw up as a teenager?



At the age of 17 I was a relief check-in Supervisor for a Regional Airline..40 flights a day from our base..Offloading people who were late.

Whom among us didn't screw up as a teenager?

A little compassion/assistance from LH would be kind, although not legally required. If these are indeed the facts.

Well I did screw up sometimes as a teenager....
But I did not went with my story to the press, whining about bad treatment. Think "how smart, everyone will be pity and hate that airline" and gives the feeling of they want the world to bend to their will....
Do not want to meet them in a couple of years, if they dont change their behavior.

Wow, quite an excoriating, judgmental account for someone with one post and no purported first-hand knowledge of the situation!...
Do you suggest that they reshuffled the terminal wing in FRA to better accommodate the account of the young ladies? And the 5 minute boarding doesn't require to be eyewittnessed in order to safely sort it under Bravo Sierra.

And how do you know that the poster doesn't have first hand knowledge regarding the sanitation of the blog? It sounds like they tried it and cam to the conclusion this way.

And how do you know that the poster doesn't have first hand knowledge regarding the sanitation of the blog? It sounds like they tried it and cam to the conclusion this way.

Precisely.
A comment pointing to this thread of critical voices from the real world remains unpublished, while comments that beat the racist drum ("I know that Lufthansa employees and may be even the company is racially biased") sail through.

Ad hominem attacks? Not really. If they publish under their own names prominently in a social media environment, it's difficult to then claim anonymity

Like other posters I find it hard to believe that boarding had not started at 13:07 or 13:10 for a flight scheduled to depart at 13:25. As htb has pointed out it seems more likely that everyone was already on board when the girls arrived at the gate.

Undoubtedly it was a traumatic experience for 17 year-olds but some of the "facts" in the story don't add up.I fly this sector all the time.

LH sometimes has us waiting until the last minute and then tries to herd the pax into the aircraft.

Late departures are easily made up on the way to BOM from FRA - we frequently get in too early with on-time departures, and sometimes leave late if there are tailwinds, as BOM ATC normally tells LH to wait on the tarmac to get a aerobridge position.

Further, although you guys all think that this story is made up, I can attest that 80% of LH staff would act as they have described in the story. The other 20% of LH staff are wonderful and go out of their way to help...

I fly this sector all the time.

LH sometimes has us waiting until the last minute and then tries to herd the pax into the aircraft.

Late departures are easily made up on the way to BOM from FRA - we frequently get in too early with on-time departures, and sometimes leave late if there are tailwinds, as BOM ATC normally tells LH to wait on the tarmac to get a aerobridge position.

Further, although you guys all think that this story is made up, I can attest that 80% of LH staff would act as they have described in the story. The other 20% of LH staff are wonderful and go out of their way to help...

I don't see what the LH staff did do wrong?

Were they unfriendly? Maybe in the eyes of some spoilt teenagers, yes.

If you miss your flight because of your own mistake (And again, the story from the girls that boarding had not started yet when they reached, and afterwards was done in 5 minutes is simply a lie)

"...and then went near our gate. It was about 1:07 pm. Till 1:10 pm boarding had not started. The flight was supposed to leave at 1:30pm. So just directly opposite our gate was the Duty Free. We went to have a quick look since we had time. Then after about five minutes we came back to our gate."

The situation is very clear. They had plenty of time. They reached 23 minutes before departure, when the gate obviously had boarded (almost) all passengers, but they apparently didn't understood boarding was almost complete, and thought it's a good idea to go spend some more daddy money.

When they eventually come back from the Duty Free (which clearly is NOT next to the Gates where the flights to India take off) the flight had closed. Probably the person who was "just allowed to board before them" was the last one to get aboard. Maybe he was a HON on a direct transfer, or anything, but the thing is, they were too late. LH can't delay a flight just because some teenagers think it's a great idea to hang around in the shopping area for too long.

Usually there are more than one flight to India from the same gate areas, meaning there might have been quite some Indians sleeping on the chairs near their gate, giving them the feeling that boarding hasn't started yet. (This week, there was a German Airport documentary showing how one pax to an Indian destination was still missing, and the gate agents going around near the gate and asking several dozen Indians who were sleeping nearby if they were going to Mumbai (I think) - but they were all on the late flight to Delhi (could have been the other way round..)*

As the flight from one of the girl was a bit delayed and therefore she was under the MCT, she got rebooked for free. The other girl had a legal MCT, had even "proved" that she could have made the flight with her story, therefore it's only logical it's up to her to pay for the changing flight fee. And that means she can't fly any way she wants. Whats next? Demand an upgrade to First class? LH already went above what they should have done by allowing her to share the room with her friend. (In Germany, usually you don't pay for a room, but by person, so it's very probable that LH had additional costs because of her)

And to top it off, she is complaining about some "racial" discrimination from LH.. fact is, LH might discriminate because they're travelling in Economy as No-Status pax. Maybe they've seen Business or First class pax, or FTL or SEN or HON pax getting a better treatment, that's because they're spending much, much, much more money on LH than them. Or, because they had fully flex tickets. Or, because they just like one of the girls, had delayed inbound flights. There is plenty of choices why other people got rebooked "for free" while one of the teenagers didn't get. And usually the rebooking is a piece of cake, if there is a reason.

One of the girls simply had no reason. Her fault. LH treated her fine. Nothing to whine about, yet she goes crazy. Hopefully she will grow up soon..

* http://www.kabeleins.ch/tv/achtung-kontrolle/videos/folge/braut-entfuehrung-flughafen-1.179809

Starting at 39th minute.. boarding of a flight to India, missing pax..

I could give a detailed response or a short one.
INKEES
Ignorant, Newbie, Kettle, Entitled, Embelished Story
It was probably freezing in Bombay.
The mother expected the airline to call her!
The parents feel even more entitled.

Just sharing an opinion from India here.. DNA is not a very reliable news source in the country and like most Indian media is known to sensationalise stories.

To me it seems like the story was cooked up by a few journos along with the parents hoping to pull off some damages on LH.

I fly this sector all the time.

LH sometimes has us waiting until the last minute and then tries to herd the pax into the aircraft.

Late departures are easily made up on the way to BOM from FRA - we frequently get in too early with on-time departures, and sometimes leave late if there are tailwinds, as BOM ATC normally tells LH to wait on the tarmac to get a aerobridge position.

Further, although you guys all think that this story is made up, I can attest that 80% of LH staff would act as they have described in the story. The other 20% of LH staff are wonderful and go out of their way to help...
I'm not debating whether LH staff were rude and unhelpful. I'm just trying to understand if the girl's story adds up.

It of course depends on whether arrival and deparure times published by flightstats are accurate but I always check my own flights and what they publish appears to be accurate in my experience. The girls' domestic flights arrived at 12:31 and 12:22, and their flight to India was due to depart at 13:25 (not at 13:30 as stated in the blog). They arrived at their departure gate in B around 13:07. This sounds quite plausible.

Boarding for this flight may be often delayed but is it conceivable that pax for the entire 747 can be herded into the aircraft in 5 minutes between 13:10 and 13:15 when she claims she and her friend returned to the gate?

I'm not even trying to understand the parts about who was asked to pay how many euros for what reason.

Sorry to pile on... but at 17 I had finished my training and was about to be commissioned as an officer in the Royal Australian Navy....

I'm always amazed that so many "late teenagers" expect to be treated as adults ... except of course when they find it advantageous to be seen as "children"...(and so many folks fall for that!)

Can't have it both ways......

" (In Germany, usually you don't pay for a room, but by person, so it's very probable that LH had additional costs because of her)"


while it may not be a very important part of the story, this is complete bollocks (unless you spend the night in a brothel that is)....

At the age of 17 I was a relief check-in Supervisor for a Regional Airline..40 flights a day from our base..Offloading people who were late.

Wow! What a true stud! ^^^^^^^^^^^ for you. You responsible man. You family man. If you were British, you would be a lad.

Someone give this man a knighthood!


---

Just kidding. Because in all honesty, teenagers of today need to grow up, fast. Give them a summer job or two and they will learn quickly!

Ignorance can't be the reason for sympathy. Welcome to the real world!

A little compassion/assistance from LH would be kind, although not legally required..

LH does not even pay compensation when it is legally required and usually only reacts when sued. I wouldn't expect them to pay anything is this case...

17 years is the perfect age to learn that the world doesn't revolve around you and that airlines fly on specific times (normally) and that browsing in a duty-free store instead of boarding has consequenses.

And that crying about it, doesn't (or shouldn't) make you somebody special. Don't blame the big, bad western airline....

i agree 100%....^^

Whom among us didn't screw up as a teenager?

A little compassion/assistance from LH would be kind, although not legally required. If these are indeed the facts.

yes, most (if not all) of us have screwed up in our teen years but running to the newspaper with a sob story that doesn't add up is not the right thing to do....

LH does not even pay compensation when it is legally required and usually only reacts when sued. I wouldn't expect them to pay anything is this case...

Now, THAT's not true (in my experience, anyway). Delayed and cancelled flights have always been compensated as per EC Regulation 261/2004/EC and on the rare occasions that there's been baggage issue, it's been resolved quickly.

Now, THAT's not true (in my experience, anyway). Delayed and cancelled flights have always been compensated as per EC Regulation 261/2004/EC and on the rare occasions that there's been baggage issue, it's been resolved quickly.

Maybe you're the exception, but LH is very well known both among frequent flyers and also among specialized lawyers (Reiserechtsanwälte) that they only pay any compensations when sued.

17 years is the perfect age to learn that the world doesn't revolve around you and that airlines fly on specific times (normally) and that browsing in a duty-free store instead of boarding has consequenses.

And that crying about it, doesn't (or shouldn't) make you somebody special. Don't blame the big, bad western airline....

+1 ^

Just want to agree. Also to Oliver2002's post: All the people boarding to a flight couldn´t suddenly disappear if the teenagers just "visit a duty free store opposite the gate".

The whole story is smelly. Par. 2 line 2 gives us a short glimpse on the solution of the story. Just to cite them: "Rotary Exchange student in Berlin, Divya was the same in Hamburg"

So the whole article is a kind of DYKWIA story on student´s level. How could this huge, Western and unfriendly airline ground two people only due to the reason they wanted to make an extensive shopping tour through FRA airport´s duty free offerings.

By the way I don´t know any duty free store which would be so fascinating that it´s worth to miss a flight and do all the rebooking/inconveniencing stuff for you and the other pax.

So I believe (really) no word beyond: "Rotary exchangers..." ;)

+1 ^

Just want to agree. Also to Oliver2002's post: All the people boarding to a flight couldn´t suddenly disappear if the teenagers just "visit a duty free store opposite the gate".


What did I say? :o:confused: I think you meant Olver Noll?

As someone who travelled from/to India a lot as a teen/tween I must say I stopped reading the 'blog' after two paragraphs and did a few :rolleyes::rolleyes:. My guess is that the inspiration for the blog entry is the angry parent who had to cough up the cash for his child. He must remember the days when tickets to Europe cost an arm and a leg and hence were flexible. Times have changed...

What did I say? :o:confused: I think you meant Olver Noll?


Sorry have confused the posts of both of you. :eek:

But take it as a compliment you both have a great style and deliver many interesting infos with your posts.:D

So just sorry for any inconvenience caused.

Hope my main message was understood. If I would be a journalist I would have rephrased the headline:
"Two young shopping addicts missed their flights and blame a clockwise airline" :cool:

"Two young shopping addicts missed their flights and blame a clockwise airline" :cool:

couldn't have said it better myself....:D

This issue goes beyond airlines. It is the issue of people who are late (many chronically) and expect everyone else to excuse and accomodate them. Ok, maybe it is my anal obsessiveness or my German upbring, but my father had a saying; Funf minuten vor der zeit, ist der Deutsche Punklichkeit. Or, 5 minutes before the time, is German punctuality. I try to be 5 to 10 minutes early for everything.

Now, it is difficult, since I am married to someone who is always late. And then expects no difficulties or the roads to part so that he can make up time. ARGGGHHHHH!!!!!!

I try to be 5 to 10 minutes early for everything.

Now, it is difficult, since I am married to someone who is always late. And then expects no difficulties or the roads to part so that he can make up time. ARGGGHHHHH!!!!!!

Welcome to the club. If you want to stay happily married let go of this obsession!!

This issue goes beyond airlines. It is the issue of people who are late (many chronically) and expect everyone else to excuse and accommodate them.
It's frequently a cultural issue. I touch on it in lectures I do at the Business School of a German university and many of the students are utterly unaware of such nuances.
I've always found it useful to factor in 30 minutes of "lurking time" before appointments.
Always works, never fails to impress when you're there exactly one minute before your appointment.

I once arrived in LHR to check in for a flight more than two hours before departure and saw on the display board the check-in counter for my flight was about to close. I panicked at first but a close examination of the board revealed that check-in counters for some flights departing before mine hadn't even opened!

It was later explained to me that most passengers travelling on this airline (which should remain nameless) would miss their flight unless they were told check-in closed 90 minutes before departure! :eek:

Welcome to the club. If you want to stay happily married let go of this obsession!!


I'm sorry I do not see it as an obsession but as courtesy. Walking in 10 minutes after an appointment is rude and self centered. My sister is a hairstylist. Consider having 8 appointments for a day. Imagine everyone being only 10 minutes late. That last person now sits for 70 minutes (she's 10 minutes late as well) because other people didn't show up on time and the stylist is running late. People do not sit around with the thumbs up their @$$es waiting for that special someone to show up and make their day.

An appointment is just that. If you can't make it at 1:00 then make the appointment at 1:15. The problem is that person won't make the 1:15 appointment until 1:30. It is a matter of time management.

Sorry I know this is a rant, but it is one of my pet peeves.

BTW, I have been very happily married for 27 years. I don't expect him to change, he doesn't expect me to stop harassing him to be on time. Plus, a little bit of fibbing works even better. Wedding at 6:30? I tell him 6:00. Works like a charm.

He he.. in india we call the IST to be the 'indian stretchable time'... curiously though most if not all manage to be on time for a flight.

...unless dad's paying :D

..my father had a saying; Funf minuten vor der zeit, ist der Deutsche Punklichkeit..
While I hope that he said it with proper capitalization ... that was a virtue before the IntercityExpress trains and Lufthansa came along.

Ever since non-punctuality have befallen Germany to a degree that it would make a South American banana republic blush.
..It was later explained to me that most passengers travelling on this airline (which should remain nameless) would miss their flight unless they were told check-in closed 90 minutes before departure! :eek:
Bad, bad approach. UA and LX used to pull this stunt on me exactly once each. Ever since I cut check in timing as I see fit and unsubscribed from their notification and other useless pestering.

Iin my family we say my sister was born late and hasn't stopped since. When she became an FA it was a significant lifestyle change for her. She manages to be on time for work, but that is the only thing she is ever on time for. The funnny thing about it, she is not a primper/preener who needs 2 hours to get ready. She can get ready to go somewhere in minutes, but she just can't start the process until it is time to leave.

Seems like pax missed their flight, were traumatized by consequences. A little compassion on the part of LH dealing with inexperienced travelers certainly wouldn't hurt, but pax aren't entitled to anything...


Now it smells even more like this is totally made up. If your flight gets cancelled within the LH group, you get put onto another route to the final destination, free of charge. Either her travel agent did faked them, or something else is smelly here.

Travel agent is fully within their rights to charge a reticketing fee.

These girls, their parents, and the "press" that gave them a platform ought to be embarrassed. LH did nothing wrong at all.

the "press" that gave them a platform ought to be embarrassed. The journalist behind this article specializes in digging through Twitter for people who had "bad experiences" flying and want to rant in an interview. In that sense, Mumbai Mirror is almost like a tabloid.

The journalist behind this article specializes in digging through Twitter for people who had "bad experiences" flying and want to rant in an interview. In that sense, Mumbai Mirror is almost like a tabloid.

Good lord. Though, to be clear, I'd never refer to the Mumbai Mirror as "press". Sorry state of affairs. :(

Good lord. Though, to be clear, I'd never refer to the Mumbai Mirror as "press". Sorry state of affairs. :(

Well, some of the stuff Mumbai Mirror comes out with is good content. It's just that you have to take everything you read in it with a bucket of salt.

And sadly, the major media outlets are often worse. That's the sorry state of affairs.

I'm sorry I do not see it as an obsession but as courtesy. Walking in 10 minutes after an appointment is rude and self centered.

I was joking

But seriously - in some countries if you are invited for dinner at 9PM you are expected to show up at 10PM or later - if you ring the doorbell at 9PM the lady of the house will be very upset as she will still be fixing here hair and wardrobe.

But seriously - in some countries if you are invited for dinner at 9PM you are expected to show up at 10PM or later - if you ring the doorbell at 9PM the lady of the house will be very upset as she will still be fixing here hair and wardrobe.

India is one of those countries :)

I'm sorry I do not see it as an obsession but as courtesy. Walking in 10 minutes after an appointment is rude and self centered. My sister is a hairstylist. Consider having 8 appointments for a day. Imagine everyone being only 10 minutes late. That last person now sits for 70 minutes (she's 10 minutes late as well) because other people didn't show up on time and the stylist is running late. People do not sit around with the thumbs up their @$$es waiting for that special someone to show up and make their day.


I completely agree with your sentiment....but (and perhaps this is part of my anal German upbringing....

Your math is incorrect. Let's say our stylist has 8 appointments, at the top of each hour, between 0900 (9am) and 1600 (4pm) and each person is 10 minutes late as per your example.

Person 1 is scheduled 9am and arrives 9:10am finishing at 10:10am
Person 2 is scheduled 10am and arrives 10:10 finishing at 11:10am
Person 3 is scheduled 11am and arrives 11:10 finishing at 12:10pm
Person 4 is scheduled 12pm and arrives 12:10 finishing at 1:10pm
Person 5 is scheduled 1pm and arrives 1:10 finishing at 2:10pm
Person 6 is scheduled 2pm and arrives 2:10 finishing at 3:10pm
Person 7 is scheduled 3pm and arrives 3:10 finishing at 4:10pm
Person 8 is scheduled 4pm and arrives 4:10 finishing at 5:10pm

So the net impact to the stylist is 10minutes for *all* of the 8 late guests. The individual 10 minutes of lateness do not "stack" on each other. The only way your math would work is if, from Person 2 through Person 8, each person knew the person before them was 10 minutes late and then adjusted their arrival time. So it would have to be: Person 1 is due to finish at 9:10am (10 minutes late) so Person 2 amends appointment time to 9:10am - 10:10am and arrives a further 10 minutes late at 9:20am, thus +20minutes for person 2.

....but anyway, being on time is simple courtesy and even though you overstated the net effect of each customer being late I too agree that it is terribly rude.

India is one of those countries :)

True, though no one ever gave my mother that memo. She'd get quite irate when people were "fashionably" late. When she said 9, she meant 9. :)

I think they were treated fairly.

India is one of those countries :)

So it's regular to show up for a 8pm flight at 9pm in India and the plane will just wait till then? Somehow I can't believe that ;)

And the girls weren't just in transit and still used to their Indian habits of late-is-fine, they lived in Germany for almost a year, so they should know that 5 minutes late is too late. But maybe they only enjoyed the German nightlife rather than learning some on-time-habits ;)

These girls, their parents, and the "press" that gave them a platform ought to be embarrassed. LH did nothing wrong at all.
That reads like a bad case of historic revisionism. And while I side with LH here for once, there is still plenty of leeway in there for LH to have done things wrong.

By not being on time and having passengers wait at the gate area for no sound reason at all, airlines have of course educated us to cut it close.

Almost all bad passenger actions I have ever observed has been instilled upon passengers by airline negative role model behaviour.

While I agree that the girls must have been late, I don't understand why it is necesary to be so harsh with the girls here. I still think it's possible that they misjudged the situation when they first came to the gate (not yet boarded), and still haven't understood what has actually happened.

If the whole story was supposed to be a cover up, they wouldn't haven mentioned that they went to the gate twice. The fact that they do mention it, in my opinion, clearly shows that they haven't even started to understand what really happened.

HTB.

Ignorance should be no excuse.... when you're 17.

Just face the consequence of your mistake and don't whine about it. Mistakes happen and maybe the LH response could have been more sympathetic. But I cannot help but think that if the re-booking would have been free the same tone of voice wouldn't have been a problem.

While I agree that the girls must have been late, I don't understand why it is necesary to be so harsh with the girls here.

Well, in the new world of social media anyone tries to raise a sh!tstorm on the internet when they think injustice was done to them. Recent examples:

Someone doesn't get the concept of how to book a UM. Blames LH:
http://jacksonbond.wordpress.com/2011/05/11/the-customer-is-always-wrong-lufthansa-fail/

Someone doesn't get the concept of checking in time:

http://www.robertbasic.de/2011/07/lufthansa-service-bruchlandung/



Now they certainly share our sentiment of being p!ssed off with the airline, but complain about clearly self made mistakes, so the frequent flyers go after them with a vengance :)

Have been following the thread closely & couldn't resist posting my thoughts:

-The girls were late & had to pay : fair & correct . U miss u pay & u learn !!
- Lufthansa could have handled the situation better : yes , nothing wrong in charging pax for these types of incidents . But the treatment you hand out to young , senior ,newbie or experienced pax can be more courteous & there has to be a sense of hospitality. Also I strongly feel Lh crew, staff are racists to quite an extent if you aren't german.
-Does Lh always pay out when they delay or cancel flights or re- route pax : NO !!

The girls probably got what they deserved . But the manner in which could have differed. Think Lh needs to do some thinking abt keeping their pax happy & their they don't need to do million $ research . I think LX is an perfect example, was even better before had lh not interfered.

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Have been following the thread closely & couldn't resist posting my thoughts:

-The girls were late & had to pay : fair & correct . U miss u pay & u learn !!
- Lufthansa could have handled the situation better : yes , nothing wrong in charging pax for these types of incidents . But the treatment you hand out to young , senior ,newbie or experienced pax can be more courteous & there has to be a sense of hospitality. Also I strongly feel Lh crew, staff are racists to quite an extent if you aren't german.
-Does Lh always pay out when they delay or cancel flights or re- route pax : NO !!

The girls probably got what they deserved . But the manner in which could have differed. Think Lh needs to do some thinking abt keeping their pax happy & their they don't need to do million $ research . I think LX is an perfect example, was even better before had lh not interfered.

It's one thing to say that an airline should be more understanding and sympathetic towards inexperienced travellers, quite another to suggeat that LH was anything but.
If you are confrontational and approach an agent with entitlement and aggression, trying to blame the airline, you are not likely to get any sympathy from them.

While I hope that he said it with proper capitalization ... that was a virtue before the IntercityExpress trains and Lufthansa came along.

Ever since non-punctuality have befallen Germany to a degree that it would make a South American banana republic blush.

Bad, bad approach. UA and LX used to pull this stunt on me exactly once each. Ever since I cut check in timing as I see fit and unsubscribed from their notification and other useless pestering.

Sorry, it's been a few decades since my last German class. I'm much better at speaking than writing (as witnessed above). I don't often get to use my waning skills at writing. :o

Sorry, it's been a few decades since my last German class. I'm much better at speaking than writing (as witnessed above). I don't often get to use my waning skills at writing. :o

It's been 8 years since my last Chinese class and I can still read and speak Cantonese...

.....

Sorry, it's been a few decades since my last German class. I'm much better at speaking than writing (as witnessed above). I don't often get to use my waning skills at writing. :o
Forgive me, I just could not resist. My German is falling to pieces too btw, I start to have to look words up more recently :( .
.. Also I strongly feel Lh crew, staff are racists to quite an extent if you aren't german..
I don't get it why people who are haunted by a conspiracy theory still probe if harm is really coming to them where they conjecture harm ought to come to them.

Or do you fly them for the spanking?

An accusation of that weight cannot be supported by nebulous 'feelings'. Either you have witnessed racist actions or you haven't. Everything else is - well - racism.

Personal responsibility kids. Do your parents run Air India or something?
:confused:

Personal responsibility kids. Do your parents run Air India or something?

Since the government of India pouring billions into AI, every Indian can proudly claim ownership of some part of AI ;)

As mentioned in the thread http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/miles-more-lufthansa-austrian-swiss-other-partners/1362852-only-me-very-confused-hon.html

Well they actually responded to one article lately. The story about the 2 indians girls being stuck.... Great sense of priority for LH...

there seems to be a response from LH to this story?

As mentioned in the thread http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/miles-more-lufthansa-austrian-swiss-other-partners/1362852-only-me-very-confused-hon.html



there seems to be a response from LH to this story?

Here you can find the "Airline's Version" (link from the OP):

http://www.mumbaimirror.com/article/2/2012070320120703020748237ddb2eea2/Two-teenagers-accuse-airline-of-illtreatment.html

Here you can find the "Airline's Version" (link from the OP):

http://www.mumbaimirror.com/article/2/2012070320120703020748237ddb2eea2/Two-teenagers-accuse-airline-of-illtreatment.html

:eek: Sorry, thought there was something additional.

:eek: Sorry, thought there was something additional.

Did not even realize you were the OP - sorry, how embarrassing of me :D

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It's one thing to say that an airline should be more understanding and sympathetic towards inexperienced travellers, quite another to suggeat that LH was anything but.
If you are confrontational and approach an agent with entitlement and aggression, trying to blame the airline, you are not likely to get any sympathy from them.

I agree , wish things were like they are supposed to be.
But in general when people are polite & courteous they get kicked like a football & when they are agressive & demanding they get more than they deserve.
The girls got what they deserved & lh got what it deserved - bad publicity.
Had both gone about it in a sensible human way the girls would have got home happily & lh would have got more customer appreciation & more clients.

dont think there is any more to this matter.

.. lh got what it deserved - bad publicity...
There's no such thing as bad publicity. Within 2 weeks the readers of the that newspaper at the very best remember "LH flies to India" which brings the airline back on their radar.

Yesterday evening, my flight was delayed by an hour, so I got to strolling around the H gates in MUC a bit. Lo and behold, an A340 was about to depart to DEL from H34, if I recall correctly. I instantly remembered this thread, so I remained there for a few minutes just to see what was going on at the gate. I swear they announced the final call and called out the remaining passengers at least a dozen times :D

My parents inprinted these three words on my memory: "Actions have consequences." I'm the one who's early for appointments and finish easily before deadlines; I do that without apology or expecting recognition. My spouse is a "last minute" guy when he's on his own but not with me because he knows that I'll go without him.

"Stop the world while I do my own thing": It's the sense of entitlement of the girls which frustrates me. I've been on guided tours where the same folks were late because they knew the group would wait for them, so it happened every time. It's the sense of "me" rather than "we" which causes the problem.

I'm glad that the 17-year-olds put themselves in a situation which led them to miss the flight; maybe it will be a lesson to them, and maybe not. They don't have the right to inconvenience others through their self-centeredness. No one does.

Having said that, Lufthansa and Germans in general reek of some kind of racism. Their behavior towards non-whites is something that one can expect.
This is now the general tenor of the comments on Ms Aavrutti's blog.
Reporting comments like this (there is a "Racism" choice button...) is simply ignored.
So it appears the colour of one's skin and not the fact that the young ladies didn't report to the gate on time is the reason for refused (not denied) boarding.
A spin merchant like this will go far in politics...

This is now the general tenor of the comments on Ms Aavrutti's blog.
Reporting comments like this (there is a "Racism" choice button...) is simply ignored.
So it appears the colour of one's skin and not the fact that the young ladies didn't report to the gate on time is the reason for refused (not denied) boarding.
A spin merchant like this will go far in politics...

Sad.
It's not without the realm of reality that some LH agents, maybe even most of them, may have racist tendencies. But that's not all relevant here.
That there might be racism is not relevant to the whether LH acted according to rules. It's possible, that the specific LH agent might have been less severe with a "white" passenger, but they would not have ignored that the fact that the passengers did not report to the gate in tie for boarding. By their own admission, they had both arrived in plenty of time to board, but chose to go to duty-free. The airline cannot be expected to change your itinerary for free when yu miss your flight as a consequence of your deliberate choices. Flat Tire rule doesn't apply here.

Reminds me of a Sat Night Live episode called "Mr Whit", played by Eddie Murphy. It's a parody of how some people think if you are white you get extra special treatment.

It's not without the realm of reality that some LH agents, maybe even most of them, may have racist tendencies
Almost as bad as Ms Aavrutti's blog...
If I had a flight mile for every time I've heard "You're only charging me excess baggage/rebooking fee/whatever because I'm [insert minority], I'd have HON status...

There's no such thing as bad publicity. Within 2 weeks the readers of the that newspaper at the very best remember "LH flies to India" which brings the airline back on their radar.

Remember one thing nobody is too big to fail (remember Lehman bros). Today media & internet can bring down just about everything(even govt's ). I live in Belgium , previously there were no direct flights to India , since a couple of years jet started flying direct to India what happens the traffic on os , lx & lh (fra & muc ) goes down. Os is stopped. Lx &lh flights are cheaper than jet to India, but a lot of people still choose jet over lx & lh. Choices & options are a big game changer when customers aren't happy.

P.s. I don't like jet either.

Sad.
It's not without the realm of reality that some LH agents, maybe even most of them, may have racist tendencies. But that's not all relevant here.
That there might be racism is not relevant to the whether LH acted according to rules. It's possible, that the specific LH agent might have been less severe with a "white" passenger, but they would not have ignored that the fact that the passengers did not report to the gate in tie for boarding. By their own admission, they had both arrived in plenty of time to board, but chose to go to duty-free. The airline cannot be expected to change your itinerary for free when yu miss your flight as a consequence of your deliberate choices. Flat Tire rule doesn't apply here.

Not being overly convinced by LH's customer service standards but I wonder how you would come to the conclusion that 'LH agents' (-> generalization) have racist tendencies (and you even go so far to extend it to the majority of them). What is the indicator for that? LH being a german airline, therefore the staff must be bad & evil!?

Especially in the US most LH staff has almost no affiliation with Germany, the opposite. Check Out airports like DFW, DTW, EWR, MIA... these agents are leased employees on minimum wage of black, arabic or latino heritage. Are you telling me these folks are racist? Or was you statement rather directed to the staff @ MUC / FRA (where I probably count a very good number of southern/eastern european folks in LH Uniform).

People still love to play the race card on LH and that is not hearsay but based on my own and others observations. I have seen passengers of all sorts of different origin and religion go ballistic at LH counters and on board the plane. Many people will be afraid to say it but I am not: The worst behavior I have experienced many times comes from Israeli / Jewish passengers who are not the slightest bit embarrassed to shout Nazi comparisons to the staff if things don't go their way. Sample situations: Family wasn't able to get seated together on FRA-JFK, Pax in C didn't have his Kosher Meal on LAX-MUC (turn out he changed the flight on the same day), flight cancellation to FCO in FRA -> Pax ripped the keyboard off the workstation and threw it behind the counter. I think everybody should be careful and reserve some decency when it comes to using religion and race to solve or complain about customer service.

I absolutely agree with the remainder of your analysis though. There is a line that you should not cross as a customer without having to fear consequences. Not showing up for your flight (being it out of accident or deliberately missing it) is one of these situations. IIRC the 'Flat Tire Rule' is everything but a rule, it is a courtesy that can be extended to passengers that appear to have a genuine case. There is no way people can rely on or demand anything from this 'soft benefit'.

Not being overly convinced by LH's customer service standards but I wonder how you would come to the conclusion that 'LH agents' (-> generalization) have racist tendencies (and you even go so far to extend it to the majority of them). What is the indicator for that? LH being a german airline, therefore the staff must be bad & evil!?

Especially in the US most LH staff has almost no affiliation with Germany, the opposite. Check Out airports like DFW, DTW, EWR, MIA... these agents are leased employees on minimum wage of black, arabic or latino heritage. Are you telling me these folks are racist? Or was you statement rather directed to the staff @ MUC / FRA (where I probably count a very good number of southern/eastern european folks in LH Uniform).

People still love to play the race card on LH and that is not hearsay but based on my own and others observations. I have seen passengers of all sorts of different origin and religion go ballistic at LH counters and on board the plane. Many people will be afraid to say it but I am not: The worst behavior I have experienced many times comes from Israeli / Jewish passengers who are not the slightest bit embarrassed to shout Nazi comparisons to the staff if things don't go their way. Sample situations: Family wasn't able to get seated together on FRA-JFK, Pax in C didn't have his Kosher Meal on LAX-MUC (turn out he changed the flight on the same day), flight cancellation to FCO in FRA -> Pax ripped the keyboard off the workstation and threw it behind the counter. I think everybody should be careful and reserve some decency when it comes to using religion and race to solve or complain about customer service.

I absolutely agree with the remainder of your analysis though. There is a line that you should not cross as a customer without having to fear consequences. Not showing up for your flight (being it out of accident or deliberately missing it) is one of these situations. IIRC the 'Flat Tire Rule' is everything but a rule, it is a courtesy that can be extended to passengers that appear to have a genuine case. There is no way people can rely on or demand anything from this 'soft benefit'.
Dude, I didn't. :rolleyes: I used "may" not are. There is a difference.
It's a good idea to read he post carefully before responding.

Dude, I didn't. :rolleyes: I used "may" not are. There is a difference.
It's a good idea to read he post carefully before responding. :D

I read it and in this particular context 'may' and 'are' might not be that much apart as you like to put it. ;)

Also, please see my post in 2/3 as a response to the general situation and the dialogue here in this post history. I did not want to accuse you personally of having this standpoint. Sorry if it came across this way! :)

But I find this an interesting case. Honestly I can't imagine LH would leave two teenagers stranded in FRA. Even if nobody paid this change fee. Eventually they have to take care of these kids. Under German law they are minors and they can't leave them stranded in the transit zone for days. At one point it would probably come to the situation that the BGS (Border Patrol) would ask questions and 'recommend' to LH that it's time to send these kids home. I doubt FRA want's to become a refugee camp because LH is not willing to budge and change two childrens air ticket (which does not cost them anything providing there is space on the plane). That being said I know flights to India are often oversold so there's always this factor as well.

Remember one thing nobody is too big to fail (remember Lehman bros)...
No I don't. At least not really.

But I seriously doubt that they went belly up because of bad publicity. Weren't they a clan of white collar gangsters who went down the toilet so fast that not even our subservient Western governments could bail them out?
Choices & options are a big game changer when customers aren't happy..
I am not reading you here. Are you seriously suggesting that anyone with a ganglion or better chooses LH coach class because they know how wonderful it is - better than some other airline :confused: ?

Not being overly convinced by LH's customer service standards but I wonder how you would come to the conclusion that 'LH agents' (-> generalization) have racist tendencies (and you even go so far to extend it to the majority of them). What is the indicator for that? LH being a german airline, therefore the staff must be bad & evil!?

Especially in the US most LH staff has almost no affiliation with Germany, the opposite. Check Out airports like DFW, DTW, EWR, MIA... these agents are leased employees on minimum wage of black, arabic or latino heritage. Are you telling me these folks are racist? Or was you statement rather directed to the staff @ MUC / FRA (where I probably count a very good number of southern/eastern european folks in LH Uniform).

People still love to play the race card on LH and that is not hearsay but based on my own and others observations. I have seen passengers of all sorts of different origin and religion go ballistic at LH counters and on board the plane. Many people will be afraid to say it but I am not: The worst behavior I have experienced many times comes from Israeli / Jewish passengers who are not the slightest bit embarrassed to shout Nazi comparisons to the staff if things don't go their way. Sample situations: Family wasn't able to get seated together on FRA-JFK, Pax in C didn't have his Kosher Meal on LAX-MUC (turn out he changed the flight on the same day), flight cancellation to FCO in FRA -> Pax ripped the keyboard off the workstation and threw it behind the counter. I think everybody should be careful and reserve some decency when it comes to using religion and race to solve or complain about customer service.

I absolutely agree with the remainder of your analysis though. There is a line that you should not cross as a customer without having to fear consequences. Not showing up for your flight (being it out of accident or deliberately missing it) is one of these situations. IIRC the 'Flat Tire Rule' is everything but a rule, it is a courtesy that can be extended to passengers that appear to have a genuine case. There is no way people can rely on or demand anything from this 'soft benefit'.



I would surely say that that staff/cabin crew is if not racist is certainly very partial/friendly/forgiving/helpful to germans at Fra / Muc & onboard flights.
I am an asian & have experienced it. While I would not say all crew or staff are racist or biased but surely the majority of them are. I could cite many incidents to prove it. Also I have NEVER experienced the same with swiss. If any staff tried their monkey business in the US lh would get sued big time. Also the staff their is non german. I think their is no nazi angle here , so who ever has the nazi theory . This is all nonsense.

I feel the same ways when I fly el al the israeli or jewish pax have better service etc.

I would state the same even with etihaad or emirates.

BTW I have nothing against any sex, religion caste , race, creed or nationalilty.

No I don't. At least not really.

But I seriously doubt that they went belly up because of bad publicity. Weren't they a clan of white collar gangsters who went down the toilet so fast that not even our subservient Western governments could bail them out?

Good point. I bet if there would have been more time exactly this would have happened. Fortunately the market crashed so fast that LB was doomed before it was possible to shove more money down their greedy throats.

Indeed I wouldn't find any parallels to LH here. It is highly unlikely an Airline goes under in a matter of days, the only reason I could think of is if a management withholds huge debts for a very long time and then the bomb goes up one black friday morning.

The airlines business might have a lot of expenses (incl variables) pressuring on them but it is also a pretty steady type of business with constant money flow. It takes quiet a while until the value of an airline is so down the drain that all operations have to be ceased. Especially one as big as the LH Group. I think for an airline it's critical when you hear in the media about unpaid staff and fuel so that the airline has to pay cash to fill up their planes. That means it's usually 11:59h.

I would surely say that that staff/cabin crew is if not racist is certainly very partial/friendly/forgiving/helpful to germans at Fra / Muc & onboard flights.
I am an asian & have experienced it. While I would not say all crew or staff are racist or biased but surely the majority of them are. I could cite many incidents to prove it. Also I have NEVER experienced the same with swiss. If any staff tried their monkey business in the US lh would get sued big time. Also the staff their is non german. I think their is no nazi angle here , so who ever has the nazi theory . This is all nonsense.

I feel the same ways when I fly el al the israeli or jewish pax have better service etc.

I would state the same even with etihaad or emirates.

BTW I have nothing against any sex, religion caste , race, creed or nationalilty.

Thanks for your experience report!

Actually that reminds me on something. Many of my friends from Thailand say they do not like to fly on Thai Airways because they treat Thais or Asians in general not very nice. Can you confirm that (or probably from another carrier as well)?

I can certainly say (see my OP) I do not think highly about LH's service standards especially post travel. In the past I had some pretty bad experiences on LH but during more recent times it has been positive. If a LH crew is bad... it is really bad. And I think everyone will feel it, being german or any other nationality. I think sometimes they fear a little that in german they would get a serious complaint and an argument would develop. So they might be more careful rather than forgiving or nice. I agree that service on LX ist in 95% of the cases better than mommy LH.

Have flown tg a couple of times its nice , but they dont really favor anybody , once a thai guy with a royal orchid plat status in eco demanded being upgraded to business for free , the ga said that will be 300 $ sir . the guy starts flashing the card & throwing a fit the ga cooly said that will be 3004 sir.

If u flying jet or air india & u are not indian u will get better service & an upgrade maybe .

I would surely say that that staff/cabin crew is if not racist is certainly very partial/friendly/forgiving/helpful to germans at Fra / Muc & onboard flights.
I am an asian & have experienced it...
Being stuck in SIN and being doomed to fly SQ a lot, I hear the same diffuse accusations from my Asian colleagues a lot: SQ treats "Asians worse than Whities".
I cannot share this insight as they treat me like a stupid foreigner who can gladly be ignored and they switch to slime mode when some man with a suit and Kin Jong Il's attitude checks in.
This soft racism - if one chooses to use the dumb word - is a mere perception and everyone can wallow in the role of the victim.

As for LH, I can most certainly assure that they have limited chance to tell that I am not German and still they give me the full Untermensch rubdown. They are just rough in nature - they are misanthropic not racist.

If u flying jet or air india & u are not indian u will get better service & an upgrade maybe .

i really don't think so....i'm on over 100 flights a year combined with both these airlines....i've never noticed any evidence of this....

Have flown tg a couple of times its nice , but they dont really favor anybody , once a thai guy with a royal orchid plat status in eco demanded being upgraded to business for free , the ga said that will be 300 $ sir . the guy starts flashing the card & throwing a fit the ga cooly said that will be 3004 sir.

If u flying jet or air india & u are not indian u will get better service & an upgrade maybe .

Ok the thing about playing the '....... card' is well known to be contra productive. :p

I doubt that being white results in free upgrades on either Jet Airways or Air India.

Have flown tg a couple of times its nice , but they dont really favor anybody , once a thai guy with a royal orchid plat status in eco demanded being upgraded to business for free , the ga said that will be 300 $ sir . the guy starts flashing the card & throwing a fit the ga cooly said that will be 3004 sir.

If u flying jet or air india & u are not indian u will get better service & an upgrade maybe .
A couple of flights makes is just a couple of experiences.
You should watch Mr White.Most people whether with AI or LH or any other airlines treat people equally. Of course there are bad apples, which do not belong to just one ethnicity or race.
There is probably a slight bias there On AI, for example. It can be explained by general perception in India that foreigners are honest and Indians are crooks.

Service is not a one way street. If you respect the crew you will get decent service. It has nothing to do with colour but is related to behaviour. Some people have a sense of entitlement, don't use the magic words, please thanks or sorry. Some of them demand, don't ask politely.

I don't think there is any pattern to white persons being upgraded over Indians.
As a white foreigner, you are likely to be beneficiaryof doubt is some places, but in others, you more likely to be fleeced.

And the girls weren't just in transit and still used to their Indian habits of late-is-fine, they lived in Germany for almost a year, so they should know that 5 minutes late is too late. But maybe they only enjoyed the German nightlife rather than learning some on-time-habits ;)

They were in Germany as part of an exchange.

"you’ll learn a new way of living, a great deal about yourself, and maybe even a new language. You’ll also be an ambassador, teaching people you meet about your country, culture, and ideas. You can help bring the world closer – and make some good friends in the process."

LH can do (has done / will do in the future) many things incorrectly. That said, the investment in these girls' exchange year appears to have been poorly invested.

Thanks for your experience report!

Actually that reminds me on something. Many of my friends from Thailand say they do not like to fly on Thai Airways because they treat Thais or Asians in general not very nice. Can you confirm that (or probably from another carrier as well)?

I can certainly say (see my OP) I do not think highly about LH's service standards especially post travel. In the past I had some pretty bad experiences on LH but during more recent times it has been positive. If a LH crew is bad... it is really bad. And I think everyone will feel it, being german or any other nationality. I think sometimes they fear a little that in german they would get a serious complaint and an argument would develop. So they might be more careful rather than forgiving or nice. I agree that service on LX ist in 95% of the cases better than mommy LH.

That's exactly what many of my Indian friends say about AI. I think it goes back to service vs demand and entitlement. As far a I know Indians prefer "foreign" too.

That's exactly what many of my Indian friends say about AI. I think it goes back to service vs demand and entitlement. As far a I know Indians prefer "foreign" too.
Isn't that merely because AI is the crappiest airline in this solar system? That doesn't necessarily imply that they are crappy and racially biased.

Isn't that merely because AI is the crappiest airline in this solar system? That doesn't necessarily imply that they are crappy and racially biased.

There are many airlines which are far crappier than AI.

There are many airlines which are far crappier than AI.
This is why I limited it to this solar system.

Almost as bad as Ms Aavrutti's blog...
If I had a flight mile for every time I've heard "You're only charging me excess baggage/rebooking fee/whatever because I'm [insert minority], I'd have HON status...

That'll change after September when rant miles no longer help for HON qualification :D

I have to say my first reaction was similar to the above: going to duty-free instead of gate. I would mark it down to naivete rather than anything else. Then a bad attitude got them into further difficulty.

I don't know where the €400 rebooking fee that was allegedly paid comes in though.

Isn't that merely because AI is the crappiest airline in this solar system? That doesn't necessarily imply that they are crappy and racially biased.
Please read what I wrote in the post you quoted. I said nothing about racial bias, nor was it implied! What I said was demand and entitlement. How you interpreted it to mean racial bias is baffling.

It depends on what you call crappy. As far as cabin service goes, AI's cabin service is superior to that in every U.S. and European airline I have travelled on,including Lufthansa. For me, there have been no issues on AI. Their scheduling and ground service is another matter. When my friends complain about AI, many are complaining their cabin service.
Since, we are not discussing AI here, it's best not to discuss that here.

That'll change after September when rant miles no longer help for HON qualification :D

I have to say my first reaction was similar to the above: going to duty-free instead of gate. I would mark it down to naivete rather than anything else. Then a bad attitude got them into further difficulty.

I don't know where the €400 rebooking fee that was allegedly paid comes in though.

Rant miles counted for status? That explains a lot. Rant miles adds to elite numbers without generating revenue. IMHO, as fas as miles go, only BIS miles should be considered.

Please read what I wrote in the post you quoted.
So what did you imply there with "As far a I know Indians prefer "foreign" too" ?

Did you mean that Indian customers also prefer foreign carriers or that Indian staff chez AI treat foreign customers preferentially.
As far as cabin service goes, AI's cabin service is superior to that in every U.S. and European airline I have travelled on,including Lufthansa. For me, there have been no issues on AI. Their scheduling and ground service is another matter. When my friends complain about AI, many are complaining their cabin service..
I flew a single return on them and it was the outrageous behaviour of the purser that ruined the outbound and the quality of the food on the return. So while I will never fly them again, I lack perspective.

Sorry to rehash the thread but I have had nothing but good experiences from Lufthansa. When I asked information about my connection in Frankfurt the agents were so sweet and helpful.

At SFO when I checked in for my flight this sweet German agent helped me and tagged my bag Priority albeit me being in Coach and made sure someone escorted me to the Untied Lounge.

Onboard my flight the flight attendants were so helpful and kept bringing drinks through the cabin. During the time in between meals I had nice chats with the flight attendants who kept offering me drinks and chocolate bars.

When there was a family in my seat I talked to the flight attendant and she quickly fixed the problem and apologized for the rude behavior of the other passenger. This flight attendant was like a Mother.

I used Bitte and Dankeshun and they appreciated me trying to speak the language.

These teenagers first of all were inexperienced because who the heck would go to Duty Free when they know their flight was boarding?

I spent the night at a hotel near FRA airport coming back from TLV in 2007 and before I left the airport I asked a kind agent at the information counter what time do I need to be back at the airport for security and customs. I arrived to the airport at 7:00 for a 9:50 AM departure and made it on time.

On the trip from SFO-FRA-TLV in 2007 I had a long layover at FRA and the kind agents at the LH info counter directed me to the showers and told me where to get a good meal and some sleep . I went to the Biergarten for some good beer and Wienerschitzel. They never raised their voice with me and were always kind.

These teenagers should have been more cordial with the agents and said" I'm afraid I missed my flight because there was confusion as to when we needed to board and apologize for their mistake. I'm sure the agents would have helped them then.

You see if you treat others with respect then they will help you. This could have been a he said she said ordeal.

You see if you treat others with respect then they will help you.

It's always a good idea to do so, indeed.

So nice to see this thread resurfacing- it really was one of the top from 2012 :)

I wish these teenagers were part of FT. We FT'ers would set them straight:D.
First of all FRA airport is big but a lot easier to navigate than Bombay or Delhi airports where people literally bring their entire family with them to say goodbye and the kitchen sink.

I would love to have these teenagers start a thread entitled" Poor Service from Lufthansa" and go on about how the agents were rude.

The parents sounded like they had enough money to afford to send their kids to Europe for a year. So why didn't they have a credit card or more than 50 Euro's when traveling. I get it their Father coerced them to buy some liquor from the Duty Free and gets mad at the agent for not letting them board:D:D.

The teens would continue on the thread how the Lufthansa agent was disrespectful holding us hostage to pay the fee. Hey man if you mess up admit it and pay the fee. 150 Euros is nothing compared to a $1,000 ticket.

I always travel with a credit card for issues like this.

In fact when I had to go home early from a trip abroad due to a death in the family a kind Lufthansa agent worked with me to change the flight and I was only out $250 which was to be expected.

I could imagine these teens checkin to a hotel and demanding everything and when they don't get it they threaten the agent about writing a bad review.

You know what when I stay at a nice hotel I e-mail the manager to see if there are any upgrades available and promise to write a good review. It works a lot of the time.

Airlines hate to deal with demanding passengers. When I fly I'm always nice to the agents and FA's saying good morning good afternoon etc.

I think we should send these kids on a Rick Steve's Tour to Europe and we'll hear complaints . The shower was down the hall, the room was too small, we had to walk our bags to the bus.

Or these teenagers at a restaurant only looking for Indian food and not wanting to experience the local food. And if they get a bad dish they would send it make and say "Make another one" in a snobby tone.

God forbid if I ran into these teens in First Class or in the lounge. They would be taking away from my experience demanding the FA's for more drinks and sending them back. The food was bad, the beer tasted like urine, the champagne is not Dom Perrignon. The seat is too firm.

At age 17 if you can drink and smoke you should be mature enough to travel alone. These kids really needed the UM service. Heck they may have given the customs agent a hard time or the German security officer a hard time when their $100 bottle of expensive perfume was taken.

Oh and we can only imagine once onboard these teens would be laughing loudly and demanding more wine more food without a smile or thanks. At least when I'm onboard I say Dankeshun and am friendly with the agents. If I want more to drink I say" I see that your busy but if its possible when you have a chance to bring me another class of your delicious sparkling wine". The FA obliges and comes back after to see if I want something else.

I hope the FA would deny that these teens ordered a special meal(when their meal was onboard). Just imagine the look on the teens eyes when a Chicken platter or Ham and Cheese Sandwich comes when they ordered the Indian Vegetarian Meal. if they saw the teens being obnoxious. It does not say anywhere the FA's have to provide equal service. Safety comes before service. I've seen the same FA on my flight not be as attentive to the teenagers sitting a row away from me who were acting DYWHIM and obnoxious. The FA came to me and asked what do I want and skipped the row behind me:D

If these teen's parents joined FT they would be denying they have a problem spoiled child at home. Now I admit I'm spoiled by my parents and we travel a lot more than some of my friends but I don't act like a brat. If there is a problem I try to deal with it in the most mature way possible.

I think this post is a lot worse than my questions I asked on this forum about the service/meals I would be served, questions about the Airbus 380 flight.

To the OP thanks for posting this article. I would love to hear more replies regarding my post here or any other experiences you had with similar teens.

PS I wish LH just banned these teens from ever flying their airline again.

Sorry to rehash the thread but I have had nothing but good experiences from Lufthansa.
And that is sufficient grounds for the belated positive tantrum???

I had nothing but bad experiences with LH the last couple years but I don't excavate this board to resuscitate dry mummy threads where people bash or praise LH.
At SFO when I checked in for my flight this sweet German agent helped me and tagged my bag Priority albeit me being in Coach and made sure someone escorted me to the Untied Lounge.
They escorted you through security :confused::confused::confused: ?

Just to tell you "oh the lounge is just to the right after security....." ?
When there was a family in my seat I talked to the flight attendant and she quickly fixed the problem and apologized for the rude behavior of the other passenger.
You were flying coach .... it is hard ti imagine one passenger in one of those seats, let alone a whole flock. And which other passenger? One of those who sat in your seat?
I used Bitte and Dankeshun and they appreciated me trying to speak the language.
Which language?
I arrived to the airport at 7:00 for a 9:50 AM departure and made it on time.
Yes even in Frankfurt that should probably do .... :rolleyes: . Of course in a forsaken outstation it will not help all that much as none of the desks will be open at that time.
I went to the Biergarten for some good beer and Wienerschitzel. They never raised their voice with me and were always kind.
If you ever experience verbal assault by an LH agent for liking Schnitzel or beer, you will certainly have a broad audience here! That would be a candidate for 2013 ^!
These teenagers should have been more cordial with the agents..
And make us miss a fun thread??? No thanks!
..and apologize for their mistake. I'm sure the agents would have helped them then.

You see if you treat others with respect..
What is there to see? That the agent would have helped them in your imaginary re-hash of the events????

That is the ultimate non sequitur. Just because you, unlike me have not yet been misinformed, lied to, or being treated rudely by an LH agent, there is no shred of evidence that faking confusion and smile on behalf of the teens would have saved their day.
I would love to have these teenagers start a thread entitled" Poor Service from Lufthansa" and go on about how the agents were rude.
You can post numerous times in this thread to emulate your joy.

Or I can start a bashing thread for you and you could comment on it, if you wish.
God forbid if I ran into these teens in First Class or in the lounge...
A teenie spank thread? I am certainly in for the show!
I hope the FA would deny that these teens ordered a special meal(when their meal was onboard). Just imagine the look on the teens eyes when a Chicken platter or Ham and Cheese Sandwich comes when they ordered the Indian Vegetarian Meal.
Not having your special meal available is part of the IT system, no need for the FAs to do extra punishing work. The special meal is only really available if LH needs to deny your upgrade...

I wish these teenagers were part of FT. We FT'ers would set them straight:D.
First of all FRA airport is big but a lot easier to navigate than Bombay or Delhi airports where people literally bring their entire family with them to say goodbye and the kitchen sink.And you think the Germans or Americans do not do that?

First of all, Indians *do not* necessarily do what you say that they do - there are strict rules that forbid anyone that is not a passenger to enter the airport. Only a small number of the possible passsengers have people saying goodbye to them.

In Germany or the West, one is *allowed* to enter the airport landside, and therefore one does not note the crowds outside the airport, which appear outside airports in India.

Or these teenagers at a restaurant only looking for Indian food and not wanting to experience the local food. And if they get a bad dish they would send it make and say "Make another one" in a snobby tone.

God forbid if I ran into these teens in First Class or in the lounge. They would be taking away from my experience demanding the FA's for more drinks and sending them back. The food was bad, the beer tasted like urine, the champagne is not Dom Perrignon. The seat is too firm.

At age 17 if you can drink and smoke you should be mature enough to travel alone. These kids really needed the UM service. Heck they may have given the customs agent a hard time or the German security officer a hard time when their $100 bottle of expensive perfume was taken.

Oh and we can only imagine once onboard these teens would be laughing loudly and demanding more wine more food without a smile or thanks. At least when I'm onboard I say Dankeshun and am friendly with the agents. If I want more to drink I say" I see that your busy but if its possible when you have a chance to bring me another class of your delicious sparkling wine". The FA obliges and comes back after to see if I want something else.

I hope the FA would deny that these teens ordered a special meal(when their meal was onboard). Just imagine the look on the teens eyes when a Chicken platter or Ham and Cheese Sandwich comes when they ordered the Indian Vegetarian Meal. if they saw the teens being obnoxious. You are simply malicious in your statements, bordering on possibly being racist, in my opinion.

You are simply malicious in your statements, bordering on possibly being racist, in my opinion.
I strongly share your opinion.

First of all FRA airport is big but a lot easier to navigate than Bombay or Delhi airports where people literally bring their entire family with them to say goodbye and the kitchen sink.

Clearly you haven't visited these airports.

I'd fly through BOM or DEL over FRA any day.

I strongly share your opinion.

i think the racist bash is uncalled for and out of of place.

however, danielon's post can only be based on a one time experience with LH;
weero gives a much better description of day to day encounters with this wonderfull 'nonstop you' airlines...

i think the racist bash is uncalled for and out of of place.

I don't think it's out of place. Reread the post, and it's pretty clear...

I honestly find the post disgusting. The fact that they can afford to travel (in Y) does not imply that they have $100 perfume, etc. A 17 year old cannot legally drink nor smoke in India, and therefore the rant about how they might think that the beer tastes like urine is entirely uncalled for and out of touch as well.

I didn't realize it was possible to be so totally disgusted by an FT post until now.

So nice to see this thread resurfacing- it really was one of the top from 2012 :)

I would also like to offer warm gratitude for the resurrection of this thread, possibly it will be the thread of 2013 as well ;-)

however, danielon's post can only be based on a one time experience with LH;
weero gives a much better description of day to day encounters with this wonderfull 'nonstop you' airlines...

There was a new member some months back whose first post involved commendations on LH's account. I swiftly advised the poor fellow to delete the post and emigrate before weero comes along.

Clearly you haven't visited these airports.

I'd fly through BOM or DEL over FRA any day.

As much as I dislike FRA, but from my personal experience and those from people I know who had experience transitting both FRA and at least one Indian airport, no one would even come close to think that transiting BOM or DEL is anywhere as good - or even better, as you seem to think - than FRA.

If we have a scale from 1 (best) to 10 (worst), then SIN is probably 1, FRA about 6 (ZRH 3 or so), LHR about 8 and the Indian airports would be somewhere around 100 or so ;)

As much as I dislike FRA, but from my personal experience and those from people I know who had experience transitting both FRA and at least one Indian airport, no one would even come close to think that transiting BOM or DEL is anywhere as good - or even better, as you seem to think - than FRA.

If we have a scale from 1 (best) to 10 (worst), then SIN is probably 1, FRA about 6 (ZRH 3 or so), LHR about 8 and the Indian airports would be somewhere around 100 or so ;)

The only time when transiting an Indian airport is around 100 is intl-dom or dom-intl connections at BOM.

FRA (and LHR) is worse than all other types of connections at BOM/DEL

I want to apologize if my post was racist in any form. I do not want to come off as being racist. I heard of accounts from friends who had troubles going to India as the checkin lines were so long. I guess it can happen anywhere in the world. If I have offended anyone please accept my sincerest apologies.

The only time when transiting an Indian airport is around 100 is intl-dom or dom-intl connections at BOM.

FRA (and LHR) is worse than all other types of connections at BOM/DELThe international to domestic or vice-versa at BOM is bad only at times of heavy passenger loads, when you have to wait in line for the buses/coaches transporting you from one terminal to another.

Actually, transiting EWR with a luggage cart can be pretty bad...

FRA is just the huge distances covered and lack of proper signs at times.

i think the racist bash is uncalled for and out of of place..
I agree. The term racism is fairly strong and should not be devalued based on a conjectured possibility that the poster feels this way.

It sounds more like the out-of-control bashing spree of an LH fanboy who takes 'revenge' for his favourite carrier being insulted. No strong hints of gender or race lead up to the "wrong special meal penalty".
There was a new member some months back whose first post involved commendations on LH's account. I swiftly advised the poor fellow to delete the post and emigrate before weero comes along.
Hey! I am quite cordial to new members. Even those who praise LH for achievements it didn't earn. I only like the FT policy to be supportive for really stupid questions even those answered in the stickies.

As much as I dislike FRA, but from my personal experience and those from people I know who had experience transitting both FRA and at least one Indian airport, no one would even come close to think that transiting BOM or DEL is anywhere as good - or even better, as you seem to think - than FRA.

If we have a scale from 1 (best) to 10 (worst), then SIN is probably 1, FRA about 6 (ZRH 3 or so), LHR about 8 and the Indian airports would be somewhere around 100 or so ;)

i think lhr should be 250, bom (only domestic to international transfers) should be 100 & del should be 4....

i think lhr should be 250, bom (only domestic to international transfers) should be 100 & del should be 4....+1 ^

It sounds more like the out-of-control bashing spree of an LH fanboy who takes 'revenge' for his favourite carrier being insulted. No strong hints of gender or race lead up to the "wrong special meal penalty".:D (I hope sarcasm intended in the 2nd sentence here...)

i think lhr should be 250, bom (only domestic to international transfers) should be 100 & del should be 4....

As a ardent LH fanboi I missed my BOM AI-LH dom-intl yesterday and observed about 20-30 misconnect pax despair at AIs babudom. Trip report to follow, but let me say that in the end AI did take care of everyone. You do have to go an extra mile to speed up things and know what to ask for ;) Interestingly the gentlemen on their way to RUH patiently waited and got rebooked with letters for the employers etc (saudi authorities supposedly don't look too kindly on labor reporting late for work) whereas the lady travellers from the so called educated middle class went on about being treated badly etc etc demanding special treatment.

What is interesting about their story is the trip to Duty free while the boarding area is full of pax(waiting to board). And they are back to their gate within minutes where the whole plane has boarded leaving the 2 poor souls all by themselves.
Also, was this flight over sold in Y that day?

..If we have a scale from 1 (best) to 10 (worst), then SIN is probably 1, FRA about 6 (ZRH 3 or so), LHR about 8 and the Indian airports would be somewhere around 100 or so ;)
SIN is a sheety airport! The *G lounge has no showers, the try to make you eat belief-system-sanitized food, the fricken security at the gate means you cannot bring any drinks with the exception of baby food or tab water.

I'd be pressed to name a worse airport in Asia for the lack of tangible amenities.
i think lhr should be 250, bom (only domestic to international transfers) should be 100 & del should be 4....
I prefer LHR somewhat over FRA. And they are both infinitely better than say CDG. ZRH deserves to flushed down now after they crippled the lounge Internet access.
:D (I hope sarcasm intended in the 2nd sentence here...)
Not at all. Racism is to support the penalization of a person based on their origin and not the non-acceptance of their cultural idiosyncrasies.

SIN is a sheety airport! The *G lounge has no showers, the try to make you eat belief-system-sanitized food, the fricken security at the gate means you cannot bring any drinks with the exception of baby food or tab water.

I'd be pressed to name a worse airport in Asia for the lack of tangible amenities.

I prefer LHR somewhat over FRA. And they are both infinitely better than say CDG. ZRH deserves to flushed down now after they crippled the lounge Internet access.

Not at all. Racism is to support the penalization of a person based on their origin and not the non-acceptance of their cultural idiosyncrasies.

Wow, Weero, you sound really bitter. SIN is one of the best airports I have been to. Also I have had no issues in FRA or ZRH.

The fact that Aavruti Sharma is sanitising her blog by not posting critical (factual) comments, posting her own comments supporting her conspiracy theory of racism being at work and culling her own ill-considered replies to other comments confirms my suspicion that these young ladies are looking for a scapegoat to avoid explaining to Dad that they screwed up.

Did they charge her for not making the gate? Just curious as I've had some bad experiences with airlines not updating any info on the computer screens, so the "gate open" status would be displayed and then no "boarding," no "final call"... but info about the flight would just disappear. :rolleyes:

Did they charge her for not making the gate? Just curious as I've had some bad experiences with airlines not updating any info on the computer screens, so the "gate open" status would be displayed and then no "boarding," no "final call"... but info about the flight would just disappear. :rolleyes:

To me it sounds like even though they were given the boarding passes from their origin, they should have been advised by the checkin staff that as soon as you get to FRA please go to the gate and check with the gate staff, instead of galavanting to the Duty Free shop.