Is there a revenue guarantee that the airport will offer a certain amount of money as an insurance policy in case SWA loses revenue?
plagwate
Jul 4, 12, 9:21 am
No surprise since FL was already there and BKG subsidizes flights serving that airport. You may also find it interesting that ground crews (including TAs, GAs and OAs) are all contracted employees who work multiple airlines across BKG's four gates.
LoneStarMike
Jul 4, 12, 9:49 am
BKG can also grant an airline exclusive rights on a route.
From an older article in the New York Times:
In Missouri, Investors Seek a Profit in Branson Airport (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/21/business/21branson.html?_r=1)
By CHRISTINE NEGRONI
Published: April 20, 2009
Because Branson eschewed federal assistance, it was free of the restrictions that accompany government aid. That allowed the owners to offer exclusive contracts to AirTran and Sun Country airlines on certain routes to Branson.
“We don’t want suicide fares, two or three airlines bashing each other over the head until someone says ‘uncle’ and leaves,” said Mr. Peet, explaining why the airport agreed to protect the airlines from competition. “We want to build real service, sustainable service.”
[SNIP]
With the clock set to start ticking next month, every possible way is being considered for maximizing the profit-making potential of the airport. Airlines are being wooed with a range of services so complete that the carriers need not hire a single employee. Security at checkpoints, of course, is provided by the Transportation Security Administration.
“We’re trying to make it as easy as possible for the airlines, with no station set-up costs, no installation of computers,” Mr. Bourk said. “You come up to the counter and it’s a Branson airport employee who will process your ticket and get you onto the flight.”
I could see the FL MDW-BKG service transitioning over to WN, and then have the flight continue to DAL as a one-stop between MDW & DAL.
Gotta wonder about the future (http://www.news-leader.com/article/20120704/BUSINESS04/307040047/Branson-airport-payment) of BKG, though:
For the second time this year, the Branson Airport did not make its bond payment, leaving the future of the facility up in the air...
N830MH
Jul 4, 12, 12:07 pm
WN to start service in to Branson, MO beginning in the first half of 2013
Hmmm. On which the specific route is that? I think they will starting to MDW, MKE, ATL, PHX, LAS and BWI, too. It's whether or not.
alggag
Jul 4, 12, 8:30 pm
So, I guess I was wrong about ECP but I will be shocked if BKG lives to ever see self sustaining, unsubsidized service on WN.
OPNLguy
Jul 4, 12, 8:59 pm
BKG can also grant an airline exclusive rights on a route.
Not being familiar with the airport, I went over to Airnav.com to check it out, and when I typed-in BKG the following showed up with the airport identifier as BBG:
http://www.airnav.com/airport/KBBG
Meanwhile, over at the homepage for the airport operator, they're showing the identifier as BKG:
http://flybranson.com/
Elsewhere on the airport operator's site, this is mentioned in their FAQs for pilots:
The IATA code is BKG
The ICAO code is KBBG
Now, here in the US, the only difference between the two is that the ICAO code has the "K" prefix for international flight plan filings, just like Airnav's listing shows it. I can't think of a single exception to this convention here in the States. Odd..
Lord only knows what the luggage tags will show... ;)
alggag
Jul 4, 12, 9:42 pm
Phoenix Gateway also has a bit of an identity crisis. ;)
Also, FWIW southwest.com has long had "Branson, MO - BKG" to redirect you over to airtran.com so I guess the bags shall be tagged BKG.
traveller001
Jul 4, 12, 10:10 pm
Now, here in the US, the only difference between the two is that the ICAO code has the "K" prefix for international flight plan filings, just like Airnav's listing shows it. I can't think of a single exception to this convention here in the States. Odd..
Lord only knows what the luggage tags will show... ;)
That's how FL had set it up... BKG and more than one pilot had pointed out the discrepancy. Dispatch also read BKG (IIRC). FWIW F9 also used BKG. You wouldn't want a BBG tag...
Location:
Butaritari KI (KIRIBATI) N 3°1'0" E 172°46'0"
So even BBG has a dual identity!!!
As for the airport being able to name exclusive routes... FL started as the first carrier in Branson with a MSP-MKE-BKG same aircraft through flight. Something they thought would perform. And it was gaining travellers... Until BKG granted Sun Country the direct route. I think BKG made a bad decision on that one. Jeopardizing both routes. FL's MKE-BKG ended shortly after Sun Country began. F9 picked up MKE-BKG and it too was short lived. BKG is no longer on the Sun Country route map. I believe all of those had some guarantee of load levels. But without feed from MSP...
So as I see it if WN wants to increase anything to BKG they have to have a sitdown with the airport and explain how feed works to avoid repeating that mistake.
BKG also has a bit of problem... it was setup to promote Branson not BKG. If BKG also promoted itself as an alternative to SGF (AA UA & DL) or COU (DL).... when FL's MKE-BKG was running it was surprising how many Springfield area passengers found it easier and often more cost effective than SGF. WN could do that promotion to connect to the system... If it works add more flights and Branson still likely wins.
plagwate
Jul 5, 12, 4:21 am
BKG also has a bit of problem... it was setup to promote Branson not BKG. If BKG also promoted itself as an alternative to SGF (AA UA & DL) or COU (DL).... when FL's MKE-BKG was running it was surprising how many Springfield area passengers found it easier and often more cost effective than SGF. WN could do that promotion to connect to the system... If it works add more flights and Branson still likely wins.
I also found BKG to be a very cost-effective alternative to XNA; well worth the ~90 minute drive through the Ozarks.
steex
Jul 5, 12, 9:56 am
Now, here in the US, the only difference between the two is that the ICAO code has the "K" prefix for international flight plan filings, just like Airnav's listing shows it. I can't think of a single exception to this convention here in the States.
That's how it usually works, but there are lots of exceptions. As already noted, Phoenix-Gateway has AZA as its IATA code and KIWA as its ICAO code. A few couple other examples I can think of off the top of my head are Kalispell, MT (FCA/KGPI) and Tunica, MS (UTM/KUTA).
OPNLguy
Jul 5, 12, 11:57 am
That's how it usually works, but there are lots of exceptions. As already noted, Phoenix-Gateway has AZA as its IATA code and KIWA as its ICAO code. A few couple other examples I can think of off the top of my head are Kalispell, MT (FCA/KGPI) and Tunica, MS (UTM/KUTA).
I wasn't aware that Phoenix-Dateway had anything other than IWA/KIWA, since FAA shows IWA as their identifier, and IWA/KIWA are what are in use for ATC flight plan filings.
http://flightaware.com/live/airport/KIWA
http://www.airnav.com/airport/KIWA
I wonder where AZA came from, and why they just didn't use the IWA identifier for both ATA/ICAO...
steex
Jul 5, 12, 1:13 pm
I wasn't aware that Phoenix-Dateway had anything other than IWA/KIWA, since FAA shows IWA as their identifier, and IWA/KIWA are what are in use for ATC flight plan filings.
http://flightaware.com/live/airport/KIWA
http://www.airnav.com/airport/KIWA
I wonder where AZA came from, and why they just didn't use the IWA identifier for both ATA/ICAO...
The IWA code comes from the previous name - Williams Gateway Airport, which it took from previously being Williams AFB. That is its FAA identifier and, as you note, that leads to the ICAO code of KIWA. However, the IWA IATA code was already in use by a Russian airport, so IATA assigned the airport CHD (if I recall correctly, this was based on its location being near to Chandler, AZ). The airport authority wanted something that had more of an Arizona "feel" to it, though, and thus petitioned for their IATA code to be modified to AZA.
OPNLguy
Jul 5, 12, 3:16 pm
The IWA code comes from the previous name - Williams Gateway Airport, which it took from previously being Williams AFB. That is its FAA identifier and, as you note, that leads to the ICAO code of KIWA. However, the IWA IATA code was already in use by a Russian airport, so IATA assigned the airport CHD (if I recall correctly, this was based on its location being near to Chandler, AZ). The airport authority wanted something that had more of an Arizona "feel" to it, though, and thus petitioned for their IATA code to be modified to AZA.
Chandler is actually a separate airport...
http://www.airnav.com/airport/KCHD
I wonder what use AZA is getting, and by whom...
steex
Jul 5, 12, 3:57 pm
Chandler is actually a separate airport...
http://www.airnav.com/airport/KCHD
I wonder what use AZA is getting, and by whom...
You are correct, but the Chandler Municipal Airport you mention has no IATA code. IATA did indeed assign CHD to what is now AZA, at the time creating two separate airports a few miles apart, one with FAA designator CHD and the other with IATA designator CHD. Unnecessarily confusing and likely a contributing factor to the desire for Phoenix-Gateway to seek a new IATA code.
AZA is a major base for Allegiant; they serve approximately 30 cities from there (almost all less than daily, which is typical for them). Spirit Airlines also operates flights to LAS and DFW out of AZA.
OPNLguy
Jul 5, 12, 4:28 pm
You are correct, but the Chandler Municipal Airport you mention has no IATA code. IATA did indeed assign CHD to what is now AZA, at the time creating two separate airports a few miles apart, one with FAA designator CHD and the other with IATA designator CHD. Unnecessarily confusing and likely a contributing factor to the desire for Phoenix-Gateway to seek a new IATA code.
AZA is a major base for Allegiant; they serve approximately 30 cities from there (almost all less than daily, which is typical for them). Spirit Airlines also operates flights to LAS and DFW out of AZA.
Confusing? You betcha--sounds like it came straight from the U.S. Department of Redundacy Department... ;)
My question was improperly posed, as I'm familar with both the airlines that serve Phoenix-Gateway (I can't bring myself to use an indentifier). What I really meant to ask was what practical use the identifier AZA was getting, and by whom? Ticketing and baggage? DOT/BTS reports? Sales and marketing? It would appear that operationally-speaking that IWA/KIWA is used for ATC flight plan filings and instrument approach procedures.
http://155.178.201.160/d-tpp/1207/00074IL30C.PDF
steex
Jul 5, 12, 4:52 pm
Confusing? You betcha--sounds like it came straight from the U.S. Department of Redundacy Department... ;)
My question was improperly posed, as I'm familar with both the airlines that serve Phoenix-Gateway (I can't bring myself to use an indentifier). What I really meant to ask was what practical use the identifier AZA was getting, and by whom? Ticketing and baggage? DOT/BTS reports? Sales and marketing? It would appear that operationally-speaking that IWA/KIWA is used for ATC flight plan filings and instrument approach procedures.
http://155.178.201.160/d-tpp/1207/00074IL30C.PDF
Ah, I misunderstood. I should've known better!
I know the AZA code is used for everything submitted to the OAG, DOT/BTS reports as you mention, and in theory, should be used for ticketing/baggage.
However, I do note on Allegiant's website that they refer to the airport as IWA (Spirit does use AZA), so I'm not sure what would actually show up on tickets/bags for G4. Considering they don't provide connections or interlining, I suppose they could theoretically use whatever they like.
OPNLguy
Jul 5, 12, 5:07 pm
No problem.. I'll leave the powers-that-be to their own devices... ;)
Tanic
Jul 6, 12, 11:40 pm
You are correct, but the Chandler Municipal Airport you mention has no IATA code. IATA did indeed assign CHD to what is now AZA, at the time creating two separate airports a few miles apart, one with FAA designator CHD and the other with IATA designator CHD. Unnecessarily confusing and likely a contributing factor to the desire for Phoenix-Gateway to seek a new IATA code.
Just to add a little more confusion - When the Phoenix/Mesa Gateway Airport was known as Williams Air Force Base its ICAO/FAA identifier was indeed CHD, while Chandler Municipal Airport was known as P10. Fast forward to the 90s, the base was bracked by the Pentagon and became IWA named after tower chief Ivory White (Airport). Chandler Muni got its own control tower and inherited the unused CHD.
Oh and btw, Scottsdale is KSDL and SCF while Palomar is KCRQ and CLD.
john398
Aug 21, 12, 8:29 am
Pep rally at Branson airport on Monday I see, I wonder if they can fly direct from DAL to Branson
info on peprally at http://flybranson.com
alggag
Aug 21, 12, 10:20 am
Yes, they can fly to DAL from Branson as Missouri is allowed.
mapenn
Aug 21, 12, 12:13 pm
Branson's airport is great! We recently flew my wife's folks from Spokane to BKG (via Denver) on Frontier Air. It was actually significantly less expensive than flying into the larger Springfield, MO airport an hour a way. It is in a somewhat remote location, but is a great facility.
DXjr
Aug 29, 12, 7:15 am
Also, Killeen, TX. The old commercial airport is KILE, and the current joint-use military airport is KGRK, but for ticketing, uses ILE.
Then there's the issue of new/relocated airports...
Last year, Saint George, UT opened a new airport, as the old airport (KSGU) was unable to handle any commercial jets, and needed to be decommissioned to accomodate growth. Thus, to avoid confusion while the code transition hit the books, the old airport held KSGU, and the new one had KDXZ, while the city itself had the IATA code of SGU.
The same thing happened for DEN and AUS. (Although, I don't know what those interim codes were.)
N830MH
Aug 30, 12, 10:50 pm
Here the official schedule release from WN:
Southwest's Branson Service:
•One daily nonstop flight between Branson and Dallas Love Field
•One daily nonstop flight between Branson and Houston Hobby
•One daily nonstop flight between Branson and Chicago Midway
•One Saturday-only nonstop flight between Branson and Orlando
WN will have 1 daily flight each from BKG-DAL/MDW/HOU and 1 flight is on Sat. only service to MCO.