Cathay Pacific Asia Miles - CX service s***. There, I said it.

One of the most significant benefits of being an AA frequent flyer is the ability to earn and use miles on Cathay Pacific, thought to be one of the world's greatest airlines. I've always love flying CX, having flown CX extensively in F and J between North America and Hong Kong and throughout Asia. They have great aircraft, great cabins (the F suite is one of the best in the sky; and the new J seats, which I saw for the fist time today, look great), great lounges, great IFE (although they could use Bose headsets), and much-better-than-average food. But after the initial excitement of flying in CX F, the more I have flown on CX the more I have come to realize that their style of service just is not for me. And today, having flown BKK-HKG-JFK in F, I came to realize that CX's service just plain sucks!

Ok, so I recognize that my last sentence is a bit inflammatory, perhaps even a bit hyperbolic. But there's a particular style to CX service, one that clearly most people like, but that I loathe: it's extremely obsequious, oftentimes annoyingly so. On today's BKK-HKG flight, every time the FA who was serving me in the F cabin needed to speak with me, he would approach my seat very deferentially, get down low, and almost in a whisper begin the conversation by apologizing to me. Every interaction began with an apology, apologizing presumably for not being able to read my mind and forcing me to endure a conversation with him. The FA on the HKG-JFK flight behaved similarly, and spoke so softly I could barely make out what she was saying. Also, every time they ask a question, even if they obviously are interrupting what you are reading or watching on the IFE, it's never a simple question like, "Have you decided what you'd like to eat?" Rather, it always involves a long preamble of some sort, a welcome aboard, a how-happy-we-are-to-be-serving-you-today, a please-let-us-know-if-there's-anything-we-can-get-for-you, and, of course, at least one apology (and often more than one). Every single time. ENOUGH ALREADY!!!

Look, I certainly recognize that this style of service pleases a lot of people. And it's certainly not going to keep me from flying CX. But I sure do wish flying CX didn't have to be so friggin' annoying!

I fully agree that this post will start a discussion :D

It's the Asian attitude. It's just how it is. Asians are very soft-spoken. You should have listened to how the Thai FA in J class was giving out announcements on my flights. She was essentially whispering into the mic.

I'd rather have someone apologize to me for now reason in every conversation then to be ignored and lectured by some of the FAs on U.S.-based carriers.

To each their own. I'd much prefer the CX service to my most recent experience on AA in transcontinental J, where the cabin attendant snarled sarcastically at me "So do you plan to eat or just continue watching the movie?" when I hadn't lifted the mediocre tablet they give out from my tray table so that she could slap a tray of food on it.

Towards the end of the flight, as I was renewing my vows to avoid AA metal in the future, I heard another passenger thank her for her service and it's because of that sort of service he flies AA. I would have fallen out of my chair except I'm sure the cabin attendant would have told me off for blocking the aisle.

If you hate the style of service so much, don't fly CX.

With all the other premium carriers out there, you should be able to find one which has just the right combination of FAs/food/drink/seating/lounges/etc. to suit you.

It's the Asian attitude. It's just how it is. Asians are very soft-spoken. You should have listened to how the Thai FA in J class was giving out announcements on my flights. She was essentially whispering into the mic. I do think that the CX style of service very much is a function of culture, one of the significant reasons that AA probably never could deliver the same style of service, irrespective of unions and union contracts.

To each their own. I'd much prefer the CX service to my most recent experience on AA in transcontinental J, where the cabin attendant snarled sarcastically at me "So do you plan to eat or just continue watching the movie?" when I hadn't lifted the mediocre tablet they give out from my tray table so that she could slap a tray of food on it.

Towards the end of the flight, as I was renewing my vows to avoid AA metal in the future, I heard another passenger thank her for her service and it's because of that sort of service he flies AA. I would have fallen out of my chair except I'm sure the cabin attendant would have told me off for blocking the aisle.My biggest complaint about AA service is the condescension often shown towards passengers, particularly in the announcements while passengers are boarding. Instead of helping passengers board, many AA FAs just spend the boarding time making announcements that treat passengers like children.

As I've indicated in other threads, my favorite style of service is on QF, where one finds chummy FAs like on AA, but who actually communicate a desire and willingness to be helpful. (I don't mean to be overly critical of AA FAs; overall I've had some very food service from many AA FAs, but certainly the level of service on AA is the least consistent among what I've seen of the OW carriers.)

If you hate the style of service so much, don't fly CX.

With all the other premium carriers out there, you should be able to find one which has just the right combination of FAs/food/drink/seating/lounges/etc. to suit you.
The love-it-or-leave-it argument is always so incredibly well reasoned and persuasive.

To each their own. I'd much prefer the CX service to my most recent experience on AA in transcontinental J, where the cabin attendant snarled sarcastically at me "So do you plan to eat or just continue watching the movie?" when I hadn't lifted the mediocre tablet they give out from my tray table so that she could slap a tray of food on it.

Towards the end of the flight, as I was renewing my vows to avoid AA metal in the future, I heard another passenger thank her for her service and it's because of that sort of service he flies AA. I would have fallen out of my chair except I'm sure the cabin attendant would have told me off for blocking the aisle.

Why do you think she was nicer to the other passengers than she was to you?

Finally another voice, I thought it was just me. CX's hard product is excellent in F and now in J with the new seats, and I fly JFK-HKG-BKK 4-5 times a year in J and F (mostly F). On my most recent flight (June 29) on CX 841, I finally had enough, the endless conversation with the FAs, their taking forwever to ask a quesiton and their wishpering everything (and very slowly). Finally when the FA asked me for the 4th time could she clear my (empty) plates, after some stupid preamble before asking, I told her that if the plate is empty, she should assume it can be cleared. I also advised her after the meal that if I wanted anythign else, I would let her know and that I otherwise did not want to be disturbed or asked any questions.

After bording CX 701 to BKK in F, the male FA started the same tired and now annoying pattern you describe bvery well below. I simply cut him off while he was asking me "how long I stay in Bangkok", and advised him that I have already had a long flight to HKG and did not want to answer any questions or be disturbed.

While i will keep flying CX given its hard product, I am going to start being more proactive in advance to let the FAs know not to engage me in unecessary coversation.

Enough already! Let the flames begin....

One of the most significant benefits of being an AA frequent flyer is the ability to earn and use miles on Cathay Pacific, thought to be one of the world's greatest airlines. I've always love flying CX, having flown CX extensively in F and J between North America and Hong Kong and throughout Asia. They have great aircraft, great cabins (the F suite is one of the best in the sky; and the new J seats, which I saw for the fist time today, look great), great lounges, great IFE (although they could use Bose headsets), and much-better-than-average food. But after the initial excitement of flying in CX F, the more I have flown on CX the more I have come to realize that their style of service just is not for me. And today, having flown BKK-HKG-JFK in F, I came to realize that CX's service just plain sucks!

Ok, so I recognize that my last sentence is a bit inflammatory, perhaps even a bit hyperbolic. But there's a particular style to CX service, one that clearly most people like, but that I loathe: it's extremely obsequious, oftentimes annoyingly so. On today's BKK-HKG flight, every time the FA who was serving me in the F cabin needed to speak with me, he would approach my seat very deferentially, get down low, and almost in a whisper begin the conversation by apologizing to me. Every interaction began with an apology, apologizing presumably for not being able to read my mind and forcing me to endure a conversation with him. The FA on the HKG-JFK flight behaved similarly, and spoke so softly I could barely make out what she was saying. Also, every time they ask a question, even if they obviously are interrupting what you are reading or watching on the IFE, it's never a simple question like, "Have you decided what you'd like to eat?" Rather, it always involves a long preamble of some sort, a welcome aboard, a how-happy-we-are-to-be-serving-you-today, a please-let-us-know-if-there's-anything-we-can-get-for-you, and, of course, at least one apology (and often more than one). Every single time. ENOUGH ALREADY!!!

Look, I certainly recognize that this style of service pleases a lot of people. And it's certainly not going to keep me from flying CX. But I sure do wish flying CX didn't have to be so friggin' annoying!

Finally another voice, I thought it was just me. CX's hard product is excellent in F and now in J with the new seats, and I fly JFK-HKG-BKK 4-5 times a year in J and F (mostly F). On my most recent flight (June 29) on CX 841, I finally had enough, the endless conversation with the FAs, their taking forwever to ask a quesiton and their wishpering everything (and very slowly). Finally when the FA asked me for the 4th time could she clear my (empty) plates, after some stupid preamble before asking, I told her that if the plate is empty, she should assume it can be cleared. I also advised her after the meal that if I wanted anythign else, I would let her know and that I otherwise did not want to be disturbed or asked any questions.

After bording CX 701 to BKK in F, the male FA started the same tired and now annoying pattern you describe bvery well below. I simply cut him off while he was asking me "how long I stay in Bangkok", and advised him that I have already had a long flight to HKG and did not want to answer any questions or be disturbed.

While i will keep flying CX given its hard product, I am going to start being more proactive in advance to let the FAs know not to engage me in unecessary coversation.

Enough already! Let the flames begin....
While I applaud your directness, I would simply suggest that you communicate your desires politely. Though clearly not to your or my liking, it's clear to me that the FAs only are doing what they have been trained to do. But I think politely saying that you'll let them know if you need anything but otherwise would prefer not to be disturbed is perfectly appropriate.

The love-it-or-leave-it argument is always so incredibly well reasoned and persuasive.

It's the appropriate response to a whining complaint. Especially one that includes the phrase, and I quote, "the more I have flown on CX the more I have come to realize that their style of service just is not for me."

Fine. If it's not to your liking you can try another airline or work to change their corporate culture or whatever. But just ranting on about how much you don't like the "style of service" doesn't accomplish anything. At least I gave you one possible solution to your "problem."

Just goes to show, you can't please everyone.

Nothing wrong with OP's POV; but that's CX's culture, and not much is going to change. At least it is service that is on the opposite side of the spectrum from what we normally complain about.

This somewhat reminds me of Goldilocks and the three bears... this porridge is too hot, this porridge is too cold, this porridge is just right!

If you hate the style of service so much, don't fly CX.

With all the other premium carriers out there, you should be able to find one which has just the right combination of FAs/food/drink/seating/lounges/etc. to suit you.

The love-it-or-leave-it argument is always so incredibly well reasoned and persuasive.

Seems to me a take-it or leave-it approach is a valid choice... if it truly was annoying, going elsewhere to find the desired service level is a reasonable course of action.

What else could one do to change an entire culture and training? Or perhaps take it into your own hands and have a briefing with the purser prior to the start of the flight on how one would prefer to be addressed?

And for the record, saying that the service sucks is truly inaccurate... there are pretty standard levels of measurement on service, and just because the FA's seem too apologetic is far from "sucks". It's just an inflammatory statement without any merit or truth.

To each their own. I'd much prefer the CX service to my most recent experience on AA in transcontinental J, where the cabin attendant snarled sarcastically at me "So do you plan to eat or just continue watching the movie?" when I hadn't lifted the mediocre tablet they give out from my tray table so that she could slap a tray of food on it.

Towards the end of the flight, as I was renewing my vows to avoid AA metal in the future, I heard another passenger thank her for her service and it's because of that sort of service he flies AA. I would have fallen out of my chair except I'm sure the cabin attendant would have told me off for blocking the aisle.

In defense of the FA, I have seen many J/F pax with their Bose headsets on, watching whatever on the tablet/IFE, totally oblivious of their surroundings and the FA trying to do the meal service. My guess is by the time she got you, she was pretty tired of it.

Swing away baby!

This complaint seems highly appropriate for the OP's very own thread started here (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/american-aadvantage/1092013-whats-stupidest-least-substantive-thing-you-can-complain-about.html).

+1 You nailed it. ;)

Seriously, Blumie, there's nothing wrong with saying that CX's service isn't your cup of tea and even letting off steam about it. But to translate that into a complaint and to claim it sucks? C'mon.

I'll be happy to fly the OP's CX sectors for him, if it's so unpleasant :rolleyes:

Why do you think she was nicer to the other passengers than she was to you?

Why do you assume there was anything more to it than as reported?

I've seen similar comments before from a FA when the passenger fails to snap to attention and anticipate what they plan to do, so they don't have to waste any time with a polite request.

It isn't a crime to be caught up in a movie with your head down over the tray as there isn't much else you can do with the tablets as the seats were never designed for them.

This is only a minority of crew as usual, but they do exist, they are out there and they need nothing special from the passenger side, a lack of attention to the needs of the FA is often enough to trigger a sarcastic comment, when a more professional FA would have got their attention and asked if they could "make room for the tray please?"

I'm sorry to post in your thread and I'm sorry to use up your internets.

I just wanted to say (sorry!) that I see where you are coming from and personally (sorry to disagree here!) find CX service to be a bit to rigid as far as what you get when. I'm sorry, but that's my opinion.

I don't know it just seems to me that most AA FAs are fine in the premium cabins. The two FAs last night working the F cabin to MIA (granted yes this is domestic) while 50 plus were polite, efficient, provided good service, and generally sweet (the one asked us whether we wanted to be called by our first or last name.) I don't need a geisha girl talking to me like she is Jeannie from I Dream of Jeannie and I'm Major Nelson.

+1 You nailed it. ;)

Seriously, Blumie, there's nothing wrong with saying that CX's service isn't your cup of tea and even letting off steam about it. But to translate that into a complaint and to claim it sucks? C'mon.

Umm... is there a need to post it on a forum for the AAdvantage FF programme?

If just wanting to whinge about CX, the CX forum would be a more logical place surely

As far as service goes, I think that CX service leaves AA's for dust. Far better service and far better food offerings

In defense of the FA, I have seen many J/F pax with their Bose headsets on, watching whatever on the tablet/IFE, totally oblivious of their surroundings and the FA trying to do the meal service. My guess is by the time she got you, she was pretty tired of it.

Swing away baby!

That's no defence. The FAs are working in a service industry ( regardless of how little service some of the AA ones seem to want to provide ) and there is no excuse to be impolite to the customer

This complaint seems highly appropriate for the OP's very own thread started here (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/american-aadvantage/1092013-whats-stupidest-least-substantive-thing-you-can-complain-about.html).

:D^

For $5.65 OP can easily solve the problem on his next trip.
Just place this sign in your suite (http://www.amazon.com/Wood-Crab-Sign-Bother-Crabby/dp/B0016CYM7I)

That's no defence. The FAs are working in a service industry ( regardless of how little service some of the AA ones seem to want to provide ) and there is no excuse to be impolite to the customer

Seems to be a widening gap between the majority who get that point and work hard to provide a professional service delivery, at least in the J/F cabins, and those who seem to believe that 'we are here primarily for your safety' translates as 'anything else I do is an inconvenience for me and a bonus for you'.

CX have the balance set too far the other way for my preferences I would agree, but culturally they are not out of step with the expectations of most non-Western passengers I'd have thought.

I find when I get on a CX flight and just want to go to sleep or don't want service, I just tell them when I get onboard and they leave me alone. @:-)

I guess some people can say they just don't like the way service is delivered in other countries as OP is saying. Perhaps when JL gate agents bow when they start boarding that bothers him as well, or when KE FAs bow at the end of the flight - I suppose OP is annoyed by that as well.

On a bright note for OP, there was a recent thread in the CX forum (where this belongs) noting that the U.S. based crews are more on par with DL and NW than their Asia based counterparts. :D:roll eyes:

Surly U.S. cabin crews on CX...

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/cathay-pacific-asia-miles/1363045-surly-american-cabin-crews-cx.html

To be honest, I've never had it as "bad" as the OP. I wonder if this is partly a function of the newer HK/Chinese FAs with more limited English proficiency? But clearly it's a cultural thing to. Blume - have you ever flown JL or SQ or NH? I hear the SQ FAs are robotic. My one experience in JL F (albeit 10 yrs ago) was quite amusing - every interaction with the FA included one or more bows. By the cheese course I found myself bowing back. :eek: To this day I joke about the presentation of "Ah-men-ah-tee" on a silver tray. FWIW, that was my very first time in a full flat bed. ^ (On an airplane of course.)

In any event, I've definitely had the "chummy" FAs on CX that were happy to talk about where they like to go shopping in NY.

But honestly, what you complain about is not that different than what you'd experience at a high end hotel in the region, particularly in the restaurants. We were always asked if they could clear our plates at the 5* hotel restaurants (eg, Oberoi) on our trip to India last year.

In some ways it seems disingenuous to pin it on CX.

Oh please. I don't think it's limited to CX, but it's more of a personal preference.

I don't like to be overly pampered, and find most flights (especially business) more than adequate for my taste.

When I flown BA First last year, it felt overly pampered (similar to what the OP described). It was too much for my liking, so if I have the choice, I prefer to book business over First.

Well, it appears there can be only one solution to get the "type" of FA you really want. Prior to boarding you can read a bio that includes: they call you by first/last name, they are quiet/loud, they inquire if you need anything/leave you alone, wear/do not wear union buttons, are young/old, fat/skinny, etc. And they'll also stand behind a glass window and you can point to the one you want while boarding.

:rolleyes:

Bad craziness.

I love CX and wish it were the model for all other airlines: hard and soft product, just not the price. ;)

Umm... is there a need to post it on a forum for the AAdvantage FF programme?

If just wanting to whinge about CX, the CX forum would be a more logical place surely

On a bright note for OP, there was a recent thread in the CX forum (where this belongs)

+2

Umm... is there a need to post it on a forum for the AAdvantage FF programme?

If just wanting to whinge about CX, the CX forum would be a more logical place surely



But then the AA forum would be left with just information about flying on AA

I do think that the CX style of service very much is a function of culture, one of the significant reasons that AA probably never could deliver the same style of service, irrespective of unions and union contracts.

I would have to disagree with this comment. Customer service is a reflection of the standards set by a company and how those standards are enforced, not based on country of origin. Take retail for example.

Neiman Marcus provides a high-end product line with service that many would describe at aloof, snobby, etc. Meanwhile, Nordstrom, which sells similar product lines, has established a reputation for service excellence that exceeds any retailer in its class anywhere. Same with Ritz-Carlton in hotels. It's all about the expectations you set for your employees, how you train them to interact with customers and diffuse volatile situations and deliver service recovery and how to respond when employees fail to deliver to your standards.

Agree that unions can make it difficult with work rules designed to protect employees who shouldn't be protected, but disagree that we can't deliver that level of service just because we're Americans.

It's the appropriate response to a whining complaint. Especially one that includes the phrase, and I quote, "the more I have flown on CX the more I have come to realize that their style of service just is not for me."

Fine. If it's not to your liking you can try another airline or work to change their corporate culture or whatever. But just ranting on about how much you don't like the "style of service" doesn't accomplish anything. At least I gave you one possible solution to your "problem."

+1 !!! Amen !

Some people seem attention deprived and need to rant like children.

--J

Moved to the Cathay Pacific Asia Miles Forum, as this discussion pertains to Cathay Pacific Airways. /Moderator

I would have to disagree with this comment. Customer service is a reflection of the standards set by a company and how those standards are enforced, not based on country of origin. Take retail for example.

Neiman Marcus provides a high-end product line with service that many would describe at aloof, snobby, etc. Meanwhile, Nordstrom, which sells similar product lines, has established a reputation for service excellence that exceeds any retailer in its class anywhere. Same with Ritz-Carlton in hotels. It's all about the expectations you set for your employees, how you train them to interact with customers and diffuse volatile situations and deliver service recovery and how to respond when employees fail to deliver to your standards.

Agree that unions can make it difficult with work rules designed to protect employees who shouldn't be protected, but disagree that we can't deliver that level of service just because we're Americans.


I have noticed the same type of behavior when getting oversees call centers. They also often apologize, constantly repeat what you just said - over and over again, and make a point to use your name at least 3 times every minute. That too grates on my nerves. Just get down to it.

Perhaps, it is not their culture, but ours. We are the go getters, constantly pushing, working through lunch etc etc.

Umm... is there a need to post it on a forum for the AAdvantage FF programme?

If just wanting to whinge about CX, the CX forum would be a more logical place surely

While the volunteer moderators may agree with you, it's clear (at least to me) that this thread was meant to stimulate discussion of the differences between AA's service and the oft-lauded CX service, and is thus at home in the AA forum.

Recently, we've seen threads here asking "What must AA do to attract/retain high value customers?" and some have said "adopt the CX-style of service."

It's certainly more topical than the never-ending juvenile discussions of "hot nuts."

To each their own. I'd much prefer the CX service to my most recent experience on AA in transcontinental J, where the cabin attendant snarled sarcastically at me "So do you plan to eat or just continue watching the movie?" when I hadn't lifted the mediocre tablet they give out from my tray table so that she could slap a tray of food on it.


+1

Nearly identical experience Monday. I have not decided yet to fwd my comments to mgt. While I was putting away my laptop and powercord, my FA barked at my to put my seat up (within 60 seconds of making announcement).

Bad craziness.

I love CX and wish it were the model for all other airlines: hard and soft product, just not the price. ;)


I will be flying CX for the first time in December. J from LAX-HKG and F from HKG-JFK. My heart sank when I saw this thread, until I realized it was just a rant.:rolleyes:

I understand the OP's POV. My flights in CX J (YYZ-HKG-BKK-HKG-YYZ) were similar to what is described here in Post #1. Thanks for that. And if it had been "correctly" posted in the CX forum, where I never go, I'd never have seen it. Glad it's posted here.

I agree with the description but my feelings are precisely opposite to those of the OP. I liked being addressed by name each time, I liked being left truly alone for hours while I slept in silent darkness and I especially liked the eye-candy-but-still-competent FAs. The service doesn't, by any measure, by any definition, "suck".

But long speeches try one's patience and I don't blame OP for losing his when FA issues an unnecessary preamble at each contact. Much quicker to be asked if you'd like the "cancer" ;-)

Chacun a son gout as the French say.
(Each to his own taste)

I'll fly CX J or F any day. Can't think of a better use for AAdvantage miles.

If deferential, over-solicitous service on CX "sucks," what do you call the brusque, adversarial service on UA and AA? What the heck do you want, anyway -- to be ignored? Multiple American carriers offer that style or service.

Look, I certainly recognize that this style of service pleases a lot of people. And it's certainly not going to keep me from flying CX. But I sure do wish flying CX didn't have to be so friggin' annoying!

I would say this is about different cultures in different corners of the world. Here in Asia, people in service industry are more apologetic. This is regarded as a nice gesture of being humble and sincere to serve. You are expected to be polite and thankful in the receiving end. You would be considered very rude otherwise.

:D^

For $5.65 OP can easily solve the problem on his next trip.
Just place this sign in your suite (http://www.amazon.com/Wood-Crab-Sign-Bother-Crabby/dp/B0016CYM7I)

LOL!! Great idea ^

If deferential, over-solicitous service on CX "sucks," what do you call the brusque, adversarial service on UA and AA? What the heck do you want, anyway -- to be ignored? Multiple American carriers offer that style or service.

This thread is our gift to you CX folks from your friends on the AA forum. Enjoy, we're glad to get rid of it.

Brp must be traveling.

And it certainly has run its course over at the AA forum... and I feel that there will be war at hand if this thread continues here, so I'm going to do the (un)popular thing by closing it.

There are many opinions.. and well, maybe the asian styled service isn't to everyone's cup of tea. So maybe they should stick to what they like...

If anyone thinks this thread should be left open and why, please PM me. But I think it might erupt into something else if it is to remain open..

Thanks
Guy Betsy
Cathay Pacific Asia Miles forum co-mod