Southwest Rapid Rewards - IRROPS

One of the only things that gives me pause on Southwest is the possibility of IRROPS and how they're handled. As I'm well aware, WN has no interline agreements. Is this due to IT issues, or are there other circumstances why they don't participate?
Since the majority of my flying is on the west coast, I don't see much IRROPS, but when I have, it's usually as bad as they show on "On The Fly." I've searched for more info on this here, but found nothing.

Long ago, I think before I started flying them in 1998, I think there was a 60 Minutes piece on them, and one of their people said that interlining was a big expense for legacies that they avoided.

Speaking from 2 or 3 incidents where flights were canceled, weather etc. their response has been wonderful. Automatic rebooking on the next flight, stand by on multiple other flights, and a lot of flexibility on how to solve the situation. It helps that my main route has 5-6 non-stop flights a day, plus some directs, but I would not worry too much not being able to reroute on another airline.

IME, WN is the WORST airline about handling IROPS. But all my flights either originate or end at DTW, so if I am flying to the west coast I have to connect. If I was on directs it wouldn't be as big of an issue.

Had a flight with a MX irrop last year connecting in DEN and would have LOVED it if WN interlined then since I was going on to LAX and DL had two flights to LAX that would have gotten me there, Spirit had a flight that would have gotten me there (but I don't think NK interlines either) and Delta, UA and Frontier all had flights to DEN that would have allowed me to make my connection. Instead I get stuck waiting in the DTW north terminal until past 11 p.m. and almost everythign closes at 8 there. Tried calling while I waited in a long line to get rebooked for my connection and was told I had to see an agent, phone line couldn't help me. Finally talk to an agent at DTW (full plane and only two agents handling rebookings for connections) and was told they couldn't give me meal vouchers and couldn't give me the hotel until I got to DEN and when we landed at DEN I had to wait in another hour line for my hotel voucher.

It would be nice if WN would have kiosks where you can scan your BP and get a BP for the next available flight or having phone bank kiosks for IROPS like their competition. It is just iritating to having to spend over two hours to get rebooked and your hotel.

If you are doing flights with no connections it shouldn't be an issue though. WN rarely cancels flights so you will still get there the same day (unless it's an issue like the roof holes where a lot of their fleet is taken out of service). If you are connecting on a lot of your flights and the handling of irops is important to you, then you might want to look at using a legacy.

When an IROPS occurs, you REALLY do appreciate a lecagy having a lounge. Great having someone to rebook you right away and it's also a little nicer to spend the time there than a concourse full of angry passengers.

It's interesting, but (correct me if I'm wrong), wasn't WN started as a business-centric airline catering to businessmen? (yes, I know...not pc, but men dominated the business world back then). If they're truly interested in making WN more business friendly, why don't they incorporate more advantages to companies to gain their loyalty? Hmm...

IME, WN is the WORST airline about handling IROPS. But all my flights either originate or end at DTW, so if I am flying to the west coast I have to connect. If I was on directs it wouldn't be as big of an issue.

Had a flight with a MX irrop last year connecting in DEN and would have LOVED it if WN interlined then since I was going on to LAX and DL had two flights to LAX that would have gotten me there, Spirit had a flight that would have gotten me there (but I don't think NK interlines either) and Delta, UA and Frontier all had flights to DEN that would have allowed me to make my connection. Instead I get stuck waiting in the DTW north terminal until past 11 p.m. and almost everythign closes at 8 there. Tried calling while I waited in a long line to get rebooked for my connection and was told I had to see an agent, phone line couldn't help me. Finally talk to an agent at DTW (full plane and only two agents handling rebookings for connections) and was told they couldn't give me meal vouchers and couldn't give me the hotel until I got to DEN and when we landed at DEN I had to wait in another hour line for my hotel voucher.

It would be nice if WN would have kiosks where you can scan your BP and get a BP for the next available flight or having phone bank kiosks for IROPS like their competition. It is just iritating to having to spend over two hours to get rebooked and your hotel.

If you are doing flights with no connections it shouldn't be an issue though. WN rarely cancels flights so you will still get there the same day (unless it's an issue like the roof holes where a lot of their fleet is taken out of service). If you are connecting on a lot of your flights and the handling of irops is important to you, then you might want to look at using a legacy.

With all due respect, I know you are a big fan of Delta...and I do believe that Delta is a good airline. However, I would like to share with you MY PERSONAL experience with Delta irrops a year and a half ago as a passenger with NO status on Delta.

Original flight: CLE-MEM-DAL.

Push back from the gate in CLE. Wait. Wait. Wait. Something is wrong with the CRJ's engines. Pull back into the gate. Deplane.

They start calling up passengers by destinations to rebook. As an airline employee and former gate agent, I am paying attention to is being said to each passenger.

Finally... They call me up.

The following conversation takes place:

Agent: "You're going to Love Field?"

Me: "Yes, Sir."

Agent: "Well, you're going to miss your connection in MEM. All we can do is book you on the NEXT MEM-DAL flight later tonight (more than 6 hours later)."

Me: "Well, I've heard you offer to rebook other passengers going to Austin and San Antonio on Continental. Continental Express flies to Love Field. Is that an option for me?"

Agent: "Not with the fare you paid."

Me: "Okay...Well.... I would really rather not sit around Memphis for more than six hours. Is there a way you can get me to DFW instead since it's a co-terminal?"

Agent: "Not on the fare you paid."

Me: "Okay...well....I am actually an employee of another airline and I have flight benefits on them and other airlines. If I choose to just try to fly NRSA on American to DFW, can I at least get my ticket on y'all refunded since you are going to get me to DAL at 11pm instead of 3pm and I can get home faster on my own airline or other airlines if I get on standby on them?"

Agent: "Your fare is non-refundable."

Me: "So, you won't put me on another airline and you won't put me on one of your flights to DFW instead of DAL, even though they are co-terminals and you serve both, and you won't refund my ticket if I choose not to use it even though I am getting home seven hours later than I would have.... am I left with any other options?"

Agent: "No.. pretty much all you can do is take the next connection from MEM to DAL that will get you in at 11pm."

Me: "Okay....thanks."

I go and check the loads on an AA nonstop to DFW... they have empty seats on AA.

I go to ANOTHER DELTA AGENT (Because isn't that the thing to do.... if you don't like one agent's answer - you just ask another?).

I explain the situation... Delayed due to maintenance...misconnecting... what can I do?

Same conversation.... "You are on a discounted fare... we can't do anything other than book you on the next available flight to your destination."

(Again.... doesn't matter than I am willing to go to DFW instead of DAL.... not permitted. If I choose to just not travel and fly NRSA on someone else? Non-refundable.)

In the end, I did walk away from Delta, flew home on my passes on another airline and was willing to throw away the $200+ I spend on Delta just to get home at a reasonable time.

I will say that when I emailed Delta and explained the situation, they DID (after the fact) refund my ticket.....but I was willing, based on TWO AGENTS IN CLE TELLING ME I HAD NO CHOICE BUT TO WAIT IN MEM FOR 6.5 HOURS....forfeit what I paid for a confirmed ticket.

But, as much as you talk about how much better Delta is in irrops because they interline, I certainly did not see it. I could not even get them to consider letting me fly to a co-terminal airport (DFW instead of DAL) because, as two different agents said, "Your fare doesn't allow it."

So though NO FAULT of my own, Delta's plane was broke... I was going to misconnect.... my arrival time was seven hours later than original.... they would not even consider putting me on another carrier (as they did other passengers with, apparently, higher fares), letting me fly to a co-terminal (DFW instead of DAL) or even refunding my ticket.

I don't see how that is any more convenient than what Southwest would have done?

Like I said... I know you love Delta.... anyone on this board knows that.... but honestly.... how was my treatment on Delta with a discounted fare and with no status any better than Southwest would (or did) have provided?

With all due respect, I know you are a big fan of Delta...and I do believe that Delta is a good airline. However, I would like to share with you MY PERSONAL experience with Delta irrops a year and a half ago as a passenger with NO status on Delta.

Original flight: CLE-MEM-DAL.

Push back from the gate in CLE. Wait. Wait. Wait. Something is wrong with the CRJ's engines. Pull back into the gate. Deplane.

They start calling up passengers by destinations to rebook. As an airline employee and former gate agent, I am paying attention to is being said to each passenger.

Finally... They call me up.

The following conversation takes place:

Agent: "You're going to Love Field?"

Me: "Yes, Sir."

Agent: "Well, you're going to miss your connection in MEM. All we can do is book you on the NEXT MEM-DAL flight later tonight (more than 6 hours later)."

Me: "Well, I've heard you offer to rebook other passengers going to Austin and San Antonio on Continental. Continental Express flies to Love Field. Is that an option for me?"

Agent: "Not with the fare you paid."

Me: "Okay...Well.... I would really rather not sit around Memphis for more than six hours. Is there a way you can get me to DFW instead since it's a co-terminal?"

Agent: "Not on the fare you paid."

Me: "Okay...well....I am actually an employee of another airline and I have flight benefits on them and other airlines. If I choose to just try to fly NRSA on American to DFW, can I at least get my ticket on y'all refunded since you are going to get me to DAL at 11pm instead of 3pm and I can get home faster on my own airline or other airlines if I get on standby on them?"

Agent: "Your fare is non-refundable."

Me: "So, you won't put me on another airline and you won't put me on one of your flights to DFW instead of DAL, even though they are co-terminals and you serve both, and you won't refund my ticket if I choose not to use it even though I am getting home seven hours later than I would have.... am I left with any other options?"

Agent: "No.. pretty much all you can do is take the next connection from MEM to DAL that will get you in at 11pm."

Me: "Okay....thanks."

I go and check the loads on an AA nonstop to DFW... they have empty seats on AA.

I go to ANOTHER DELTA AGENT (Because isn't that the thing to do.... if you don't like one agent's answer - you just ask another?).

I explain the situation... Delayed due to maintenance...misconnecting... what can I do?

Same conversation.... "You are on a discounted fare... we can't do anything other than book you on the next available flight to your destination."

(Again.... doesn't matter than I am willing to go to DFW instead of DAL.... not permitted. If I choose to just not travel and fly NRSA on someone else? Non-refundable.)

In the end, I did walk away from Delta, flew home on my passes on another airline and was willing to throw away the $200+ I spend on Delta just to get home at a reasonable time.

I will say that when I emailed Delta and explained the situation, they DID (after the fact) refund my ticket.....but I was willing, based on TWO AGENTS IN CLE TELLING ME I HAD NO CHOICE BUT TO WAIT IN MEM FOR 6.5 HOURS....forfeit what I paid for a confirmed ticket.

But, as much as you talk about how much better Delta is in irrops because they interline, I certainly did not see it. I could not even get them to consider letting me fly to a co-terminal airport (DFW instead of DAL) because, as two different agents said, "Your fare doesn't allow it."

So though NO FAULT of my own, Delta's plane was broke... I was going to misconnect.... my arrival time was seven hours later than original.... they would not even consider putting me on another carrier (as they did other passengers with, apparently, higher fares), letting me fly to a co-terminal (DFW instead of DAL) or even refunding my ticket.

I don't see how that is any more convenient than what Southwest would have done?

Like I said... I know you love Delta.... anyone on this board knows that.... but honestly.... how was my treatment on Delta with a discounted fare and with no status any better than Southwest would (or did) have provided?

If you don't have status with any airline and you are flying only a couple times a year on cheap fares, probably no airline is going to treat you better than any other. Any airline is going to give their higher level passengers quicker service. Not saying it is right, but from a business standpoint makes sense. They are more concerned about keeping the passenger that flies weekly (many times on expensive fares) than a passenger that flies to disney once a year on a deep discounted fare.

Sounds like you had the kind of irop experience wtih Delta, I did last year on my WN flight to lax.

You should have asked to speak to a redcoat and they would have probably gotten you into DFW providing space is available. If the agent refused to give you meal vouchers, the red coat would have as well.

I thought if an airline wasn't able to get you home the same day or within so many hours they had to refund the ticket. One time on Delta I was flying BHM/CVG/TOL on Delta and when I got to BHM to check in the agent said the CVF/TOL portion was cancelled. I really wanted to get home that night and asked if Delta would pay for a rental car in CVG so I could drive home and he said no beause of liability reasons but they could refund the portion of the CVG/TOL which would probably pay for the rental car. I also asked about DTW and the last NW flight had left and the CVG flight to DTW was oversold. At that time the Delta and Southwest counters were side by side and noticed there was a DTW flight that was late leaving and asked if he could put me on that and he said no and talked to the agent and came back and said he could refund my ticket and I could buy a ticket on WN but I would still be out over $100 plus the rental car home and I just decided to take them up on the hotel in CVG since I wasn't up for a drive by then.

Having status does help on any airline. Also being a skyclub member helps, even when I had no status with Delta and was splitting my flying among a few airlines, the agents at the SC were great about helping me out.

Also helps I am in a hub city. If there is bad weather in NYC and flights get cancelled and I am flying into LGA, I can usually get rebooked into JFK or EWR. I know if I was flying out of MDW and someones flight on WN got messed up they would have better luck with an IROPs situation than I would with Delta (although if there were problems at MDW, Delta could reroute me out of ORD even though it would be a pain).

While I don't want to spend 6 hours in an airport, I would rather spend 6 hours in an airport like MEM during hours the airport is open than the time I spent in DTW that night my flight was delayed. It wouldn't have been so bad if it was earlier in the day and the restaraunts would have been open. I know it doesn't get my to my destination any faster, but having access to free softdrinks and/or alcohol, a comfortable place to sit down and access to a shower makes a long delay in the airport a lot more tolerable.

Curious how they handle boarding cards when you are moved to another flight
and paid for EBCI or not?
If you have say A 25 on yr cancelled do you lose that and go to C group?

Curious how they handle boarding cards when you are moved to another flight
and paid for EBCI or not?
If you have say A 25 on yr cancelled do you lose that and go to C group?

When I had the irops situation last year and was rebooked on another connection the next day, I had paid for EBCI and fortunately the flight wasn't that full and got a B boarding group pass, but I could have easilly ended up with a high C number if the flight was full and people on it had checked in at t-24.

I just called WN the next day and they credited back my credit card right away for the $10 and gave me a ECV (I believe for $100) when I complained about how poorly they handed the situation the night before.

If your route has at least 2 flights later in the day than the one you booked, you are pretty safe for IROPS. Once you earn A-list status, you will have standby priority and simply avoiding booking the last flight of the day should suffice.

If you don't have status with any airline and you are flying only a couple times a year on cheap fares, probably no airline is going to treat you better than any other.

So you have been comparing IROPS with status on DL to IROPS without status on WN? That's not apples to apples.

I fly intra-California, where there is very high frequency, and I have had never had any second-class experiences with IROPS on WN. Interchangeability of aircraft and crews more than offsets the lack of interlining.

You know what I hear from your post:

If you don't have status with any airline and you are flying only a couple times a year on cheap fares, probably no airline is going to treat you better than any other. Any airline is going to give their higher level passengers quicker service. Not saying it is right, but from a business standpoint makes sense. They are more concerned about keeping the passenger that flies weekly (many times on expensive fares) than a passenger that flies to disney once a year on a deep discounted fare.

Sounds like you had the kind of irop experience wtih Delta, I did last year on my WN flight to lax.

I did. So while I see you time and time again get on this board and bash Southwest for many things - from their handling of irrops to the uniforms their employees wear - I fail to see how, as you yourself have stated, my experience on Delta was any better than what you experienced on Southwest.

You should have asked to speak to a redcoat and they would have probably gotten you into DFW providing space is available. If the agent refused to give you meal vouchers, the red coat would have as well.

I don't know that I have ever SEEN a redcoat in CLE.

What I will say... is that at Southwest, I have seen a regular ticket agent offer to refund fares, offer to send a passenger to the closest city (even if NOT a co-terminal) for no additional fare...and basically bend over backwards for someone inconvenienced by a delay (whether maintenance, weather, ATC, etc).

"You can't get to Dallas and don't want to travel? No problem. We will refund your ticket."

"You can't get to Dallas but are willing to fly into Oklahoma City and drive the rest of the way? No problem. Let's get you rebooked."

"You can't get to Dallas today (or it is going to take you all day to get there due to delays/cancellations) and you are wanting to fly tomorrow? No problem. Let's get your rebooked."

Those are actions I have seen performed by regular Southwest ticket agents during irregular operations.

There was no reason to track down a "redcoat." The Southwest agents had the ability and common sense to do what was RIGHT.

Having status does help on any airline. Also being a skyclub member helps, even when I had no status with Delta and was splitting my flying among a few airlines, the agents at the SC were great about helping me out.

That's awesome and I am glad you have that ability. But how many average Joe's have status on an airline? How many everyday travelers belong to an airline's club? I am glad it works out for you. But those "perks" are not something the average traveler enjoys.

I am happy that your status and club membership get you special treatment. But really, how many people have those benefits? I certainly don't. I doubt many people actually do. Not many people fly every week... or once a month... many people just fly once or twice a year and I, for the life of me, cannot understand why the money THEY pay for a ticket is worth less than what people who fly every week.

I was absolutely floored that all of the options... from being rebooked on another carrier, to flying into a co-terminal, to having my ticket refunded.... were all NOT AVAILABLE to me simply because I don't have status or don't belong to an airline club.

Also helps I am in a hub city. If there is bad weather in NYC and flights get cancelled and I am flying into LGA, I can usually get rebooked into JFK or EWR.

Did you miss the point where I said that I was going a co-terminal city and was willing to fly into the OTHER airport in my city? Delta served Dallas Love Field and Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport. A lot of good that did me when my flight was delayed and I was going to misconnect and they would not even consider the option of flying into the other airport in my city. But wait... I guess that is something I could have asked the elusive CLE redcoat about if I ever saw him or her.

I know if I was flying out of MDW and someones flight on WN got messed up they would have better luck with an IROPs situation than I would with Delta

Really? So you are saying that Southwest actually DOES accommodate passengers from irregular operations in some fashion?

While I don't want to spend 6 hours in an airport, I would rather spend 6 hours in an airport like MEM during hours the airport is open than the time I spent in DTW that night my flight was delayed. It wouldn't have been so bad if it was earlier in the day and the restaraunts would have been open. I know it doesn't get my to my destination any faster, but having access to free softdrinks and/or alcohol, a comfortable place to sit down and access to a shower makes a long delay in the airport a lot more tolerable.

Wow... Well, I will tell you that I was less than impressed by the Delta facilities in Memphis. In fact, it was my experience in their antiquated terminal on my flight from DAL-MEM-CLE that made me shudder at the thought of having to spend 6 or 7 hours there on the way back.

You have made it perfectly clear, time and time and time again, that you don't like Southwest. In fact, this at least the second time I have heard your story about how Southwest let you down. You take EVERY possible opportunity to remind everyone on flyertalk about your dislike for Southwest (right down to the uniforms). We get it... you don't like Southwest.

However, in my experiences, Southwest has gone above and beyond to accommodate irrops passengers while, again in my experience, Delta (despite their snazzy cute uniforms) did absolutely NOTHING to accommodate me during a maintenance delay.

If your route has at least 2 flights later in the day than the one you booked, you are pretty safe for IROPS. Once you earn A-list status, you will have standby priority and simply avoiding booking the last flight of the day should suffice.

So you have been comparing IROPS with status on DL to IROPS without status on WN? That's not apples to apples.

I fly intra-California, where there is very high frequency, and I have had never had any second-class experiences with IROPS on WN. Interchangeability of aircraft and crews more than offsets the lack of interlining.

But why should I avoid booking the last flight of the night if it is the most convenient and leave work early? Most business travellers do not want to book a flight early in the day if they don't have to, and if they are leaving from a job assignment or going to one a lot of times will need to be on the latest flight of the day. In the case I mentioned if WN would have interlined me, I would have been in LA that night. Even if I was a-list on WN I wouldn't have made it there that night. Also if I would have been A-lsit I would have still been stuck in a terminal with nothing open and no lounge access for a couple hours. I did try calling 800-IFLYSWA while I was waiting in line and was told that they couldn't change my connection flight since it was going to be the next day and since it was a RR ticket (not sure if I was a-list if their phone number would have done it, but if not there was no separate line for priority customers).

And on the hotel rebooking, I would have been stuck waiting in line to get my hotel at DEN. That is something that is inexcusable. Seeing the delay into DEN, DTW GA"s should have done hotel bookings there. When I laned in DEN, I didn't see a different line for a-list passengers needing a hotel at DEN.

If you are flying inter-CA then WN is probably the best choice for you since you aren't flying long distances and they will probably serve your needs better than a legacy. When I was flying mainly DTW/MDW and DTW/BNA routes WN was fine (especially with RR1.0). Now that I am flying mainly longer routes that I would have to connect on WN to get to and fly out of a Delta HUB, it makes a lot more sense to give my loyalty to Delta, especially since RR1 is no longer around. I am doing a DTW/LAX trip this weekend and my upgrade cleared both ways at the window (doesn't always happen on long hauls I admit), so I would be foolish to take WN on that route this weekend. Just like most people would be better off taking WN from LAX to SFO or LAS unless they have status on a legacy.

You know what I hear from your post:





I did. So while I see you time and time again get on this board and bash Southwest for many things - from their handling of irrops to the uniforms their employees wear - I fail to see how, as you yourself have stated, my experience on Delta was any better than what you experienced on Southwest.



I don't know that I have ever SEEN a redcoat in CLE.

What I will say... is that at Southwest, I have seen a regular ticket agent offer to refund fares, offer to send a passenger to the closest city (even if NOT a co-terminal) for no additional fare...and basically bend over backwards for someone inconvenienced by a delay (whether maintenance, weather, ATC, etc).

"You can't get to Dallas and don't want to travel? No problem. We will refund your ticket."

"You can't get to Dallas but are willing to fly into Oklahoma City and drive the rest of the way? No problem. Let's get you rebooked."

"You can't get to Dallas today (or it is going to take you all day to get there due to delays/cancellations) and you are wanting to fly tomorrow? No problem. Let's get your rebooked."

Those are actions I have seen performed by regular Southwest ticket agents during irregular operations.

There was no reason to track down a "redcoat." The Southwest agents had the ability and common sense to do what was RIGHT.



That's awesome and I am glad you have that ability. But how many average Joe's have status on an airline? How many everyday travelers belong to an airline's club? I am glad it works out for you. But those "perks" are not something the average traveler enjoys.

I am happy that your status and club membership get you special treatment. But really, how many people have those benefits? I certainly don't. I doubt many people actually do. Not many people fly every week... or once a month... many people just fly once or twice a year and I, for the life of me, cannot understand why the money THEY pay for a ticket is worth less than what people who fly every week.

I was absolutely floored that all of the options... from being rebooked on another carrier, to flying into a co-terminal, to having my ticket refunded.... were all NOT AVAILABLE to me simply because I don't have status or don't belong to an airline club.



Did you miss the point where I said that I was going a co-terminal city and was willing to fly into the OTHER airport in my city? Delta served Dallas Love Field and Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport. A lot of good that did me when my flight was delayed and I was going to misconnect and they would not even consider the option of flying into the other airport in my city. But wait... I guess that is something I could have asked the elusive CLE redcoat about if I ever saw him or her.



Really? So you are saying that Southwest actually DOES accommodate passengers from irregular operations in some fashion?



Wow... Well, I will tell you that I was less than impressed by the Delta facilities in Memphis. In fact, it was my experience in their antiquated terminal on my flight from DAL-MEM-CLE that made me shudder at the thought of having to spend 6 or 7 hours there on the way back.

You have made it perfectly clear, time and time and time again, that you don't like Southwest. In fact, this at least the second time I have heard your story about how Southwest let you down. You take EVERY possible opportunity to remind everyone on flyertalk about your dislike for Southwest (right down to the uniforms). We get it... you don't like Southwest.

However, in my experiences, Southwest has gone above and beyond to accommodate irrops passengers while, again in my experience, Delta (despite their snazzy cute uniforms) did absolutely NOTHING to accommodate me during a maintenance delay.

Remember what Airline managed to get the CEO of Southwest home to Dallas from Atlanta the first day WN had operations there:)

WN also wouldn't have interlined you on another terminal and you wouldn't have even been able to have flown into DFW on WN or flown non-stop from NC or TN to DAL on WN. I am surprised Delta flew to DAL from MEM, I didn't think TN was one of the states covered by the Wright amendment. It makes no sense Delta wouldn't have put you into DFW instead if there were seats available and can why you are fustrated if there were seats available on a DFW flight.


I have said before I used to fly WN a lot and liked it. But that was when Herb was in charge and I was flying DTW/MDW and DTW/BNA flights. If I was doing a DTW to MDW or BNA trip and WN was a lot cheaper than Delta, I would take them.

I have never had WN offer to refund me a ticket on a delayed flight. There were two times in May of 2010 I had DTW/MDW trips scheduled on a friday night and they were already showing up as 2 hours delayed when I was getting ready to leave the office and I just decided to drive to Chicago. Both times I called Southwest and asked for a refund and was denyed (not sure what would have happened at the airport in all fairness but it would have been foolish for me to have driven to DTW in those cases). In the one case the flight was delayed 3 hours and the other time the flight was delayed by so long, that I was in Chicago by the time the inbound plane just made it into DTW. Not sure how Delta would have handled the situation, but I did have it occur onetime on an AA Dtw/ORD flight and was told that since the flight was delayed by 3 hours they would refund the fee. If a flight is delayed by an hour or so and you aren't connecting or going to miss your connection, I understand not issuing a refund, but if you can arrive at your arrival city before the plane is even in your departure city....

Southwest has many good points. When RR1 was around it was the best FF program out there. If someone is flying mainly intra-CA or intra-TX routes, it is probably their best choice. Their FA's are always friendly and on a short dtw to chicago flight they mange to do a full beverage service which Delta only does in first on that route and American does about half the time. Only time I have ran into a rude WN employee was back in May when I was on a DL flight and #1 on the upgrade list. GA told me he thought there was going to be 1 or 2 misconnects and to just take my seat and he would come on board and get me if that happens. Turns out someone did misconnect and when I went to my seat a uniformed WN pilot was sitting in the seat, his boarding pass for the jump seat and a crew member told him that seat wasn't going to taken and was his. He wasn't that happy when the GA told him the seat was mine and I wasn't willing to give up the seat up front but he was still able to have my exit row and I realize any airline pilot could have acted the same way.

I just don't feel WN handles IROPS very well but obviously some others disagree. I guess it depends on the route you are taking as well. Besides IROPS though there are other reasons I prefer Delta. I am in a hub city and can go to a lot of places WN doesn't go to, and even if it's a WN route it's non stop. I also like being able to go through security almost everytime at DTW and LAX and LAS by just simply putting my cell phone and keys in my backpack instead of having to take my shoes out and my liquids out of my bag like I would even as an a-lister on WN (and again I realize for a lot of people that isn't a big deal but it is a perk I really find useful when I am flying solo for work). And if I am flying to MDW, I would rather be on WN's larger aircraft than an RJ with Delta.

In the case I mentioned if WN would have interlined me, I would have been in LA that night.

And if your beloved Delta would have interlined me, I would have been in the Metroplex hours earlier when I experienced a delay on them. Heck, if they would have just been willing to put me on their OWN equipment to a co-terminal city, I would have been home pretty close to when I was supposed to! But, alas, Delta didn't think I was worthy since I paid a discounted fare.

Even if I was a-list on WN I wouldn't have made it there that night.

Just curious, as I read the posts on the Delta site of flyertalk, how often does Delta hold the last flight of the night for connections? Based on what I have read... not that often.

Also if I would have been A-lsit I would have still been stuck in a terminal with nothing open and no lounge access for a couple hours.

So what if you, now a truly valued Delta customer, would have been in a city like Asheville or Cleveland or Providence or Toledo without a lounge? What if, God forbid, you were on a delayed Delta flight out of Tallahassee where there was no lounge? What would you have done? I am so glad that there are SkyClubs for people like yourself... but what if, again.... you were stuck in a city without a SkyClub? (I haven't looked up the locations... but I am sure there are plenty of cities across the nation and around the world that lack a SkyClub.)

And on the hotel rebooking, I would have been stuck waiting in line to get my hotel at DEN. That is something that is inexcusable. Seeing the delay into DEN, DTW GA"s should have done hotel bookings there. When I laned in DEN, I didn't see a different line for a-list passengers needing a hotel at DEN.

Do you read flyertalk? Are you especially lucky? Because I read all the flyertalk threads... and I read how Delta passengers stand in line forever waiting to be rebooked.... waiting for hotel vouchers... waiting for pretty much anything.

From what I read on flyertalk... you misconnect in Atlanta on the last flight of the night and you are lucky to find anyone willing to help you.

Like I said... we all know you hate WN. But from what I have experienced and what I read on the Delta thread... Delta isn't much better if you are just an ordinary passenger.

We can't all be and we are not all Delta elite like yourself. Some of us buy discounted tickets and suffer the consequences.

You may dislike Southwest (and we know you do) but one thing you can say about them is that they do try to do the RIGHT THING by everyone regardless of status and ticket price.

Trust me.. I will NEVER, NEVER buy another ticket on Delta because of my experience.

Southwest, while you may not like it, does not treat one person better than the other. They know you paid a price for your ticket and they will do everything possible to get you there. I can't say the same thing about Delta.

I've never heard a Southwest agent say: "You didn't pay enough for your ticket to do the right thing." Yet, I heard that loud and clear at Delta.

Remember what Airline managed to get the CEO of Southwest home to Dallas from Atlanta the first day WN had operations there:)

Yes, and as shocking as it may be, Herb and Colleen also flew American when it was more convenient.

I am surprised Delta flew to DAL from MEM, I didn't think TN was one of the states covered by the Wright amendment. It makes no sense Delta wouldn't have put you into DFW instead if there were seats available and can why you are fustrated if there were seats available on a DFW flight.

For your information... ANY airline can fly from DAL to ANY city in the United States as long as the equipment has 56 seats or less.

Delta/Pinnacle/Delta Connection can fly from DAL to MEM as long as they have less than 56 seats on the aircraft. Southwest could fly ANYWHERE in the United States as long as they have 56 seats or less.

Do you remember Legend Airlines? Flying DC-9-30s in 56-seat configurations from Love Field to Los Angeles, Vegas, Washington DC, etc?

American retaliating by adding specially configured Fokker 100s with only 56 seats to Chicago, LA, etc?

How do you think United gets away with RJs nonstop to Denver? Because they have less than 56 seats.

56 seats is the magic number. You have 56 seats or less, you CAN fly from Love Field to anywhere in the US.

In the late 90s, ASA was flying CRJs with 50 seats to Atlanta three times a day from Love Field.

So yes... Delta/Pinnacle CAN fly nonstop to MEM.

I have never had WN offer to refund me a ticket on a delayed flight.

Did you ask?

I just don't feel WN handles IROPS very well but obviously some others disagree.

And I don't feel that Delta handles irreg ops very well based on my experience with them.

Besides IROPS though there are other reasons I prefer Delta.

I assure you that you have made that fact no secret.

I am in a hub city and can go to a lot of places WN doesn't go to, and even if it's a WN route it's non stop.

Again... you have made that PERFECTLY CLEAR. You have. As has your dislike of everything Southwest up to, and including, their uniforms. Like I've said...we get it. You are not a fan of Southwest.

Trust me.. I will NEVER, NEVER buy another ticket on Delta because of my experience. .

And if you feel like you were mistreated by Delta, I don't blame you. I refuse to fly WN on a long distance trip because of how they handled things for me.

Yes, and as shocking as it may be, Herb and Colleen also flew American when it was more convenient.



For your information... ANY airline can fly from DAL to ANY city in the United States as long as the equipment has 56 seats or less.

Delta/Pinnacle/Delta Connection can fly from DAL to MEM as long as they have less than 56 seats on the aircraft. Southwest could fly ANYWHERE in the United States as long as they have 56 seats or less.

Do you remember Legend Airlines? Flying DC-9-30s in 56-seat configurations from Love Field to Los Angeles, Vegas, Washington DC, etc?

American retaliating by adding specially configured Fokker 100s with only 56 seats to Chicago, LA, etc?

How do you think United gets away with RJs nonstop to Denver? Because they have less than 56 seats.

56 seats is the magic number. You have 56 seats or less, you CAN fly from Love Field to anywhere in the US.

In the late 90s, ASA was flying CRJs with 50 seats to Atlanta three times a day from Love Field.

So yes... Delta/Pinnacle CAN fly nonstop to MEM.



Did you ask?



And I don't feel that Delta handles irreg ops very well based on my experience with them.



I assure you that you have made that fact no secret.



Again... you have made that PERFECTLY CLEAR. You have. As has your dislike of everything Southwest up to, and including, their uniforms. Like I've said...we get it. You are not a fan of Southwest.

I didn't realize RJ's were exempt from the Wright Amendment. I also never knew AA flew to DAL since their biggest hub is DFW and they were behind the wright amendment (but they do fly to MDW and ORD is their second biggest hub).

I have had two flight severely by WN where I asked for a refund and was denied. Both were in May of 2010 and both were weekend DTW/MDW trips (adn it was the same flight that was severely delayed both times) and both times I called 800-IFLYSWA and was told that they wouldn't refund the ticket since the flight flight was going out (even though the one time it was something like 5 hours late, I drove to Chicago instead and was already there when the inbound was arriving in DTW). I was able to use the TTF but it was iritating the one time I paid $10 for EBCI for the return trip and they wouldn't refund it.

After 3 years of a lot of SW travel, I'll admit to being satisfied with their IRROPs actions..... SW works well because all their planes are the same, so they have more options to substitute planes and crews...... and with less reliance on mega-hubs, it means that weather has less effect...... while rain in ATL seems to affect 75% of DL planes on a given day, or snow at ORD affects 75% of AA/UA planes etc, the SW planes come in/out of OKC from a variety of cities (STL, MCI, DAL, HOU, DEN, PHX, LAS etc), a thunderstorm at DFW does not mean zero planes all afternoon at OKC for AA.......

As with any important travel, you always have to look at your back-up flights..... but the tough situations with SW have been handled well...... when a flight went mx at MSY for the DAL flight, because all the SW planes the same, we got the next plane to come in to MSY assigned for MSY-DAL...... there also seems to be a policy of happily delaying most last-of-the-night flights out of a hub until all pax have made connections......

of course, youre mileage may vary......enjoy!

I am happy that your status and club membership get you special treatment. But really, how many people have those benefits? I certainly don't. I doubt many people actually do. Not many people fly every week... or once a month... many people just fly once or twice a year and I, for the life of me, cannot understand why the money THEY pay for a ticket is worth less than what people who fly every week.

You'd be surprised actually. Delta has an estimated >2 million past/present medallions. United released a figure of 1.6 million. Around 32,000 Diamond Medallions on Delta alone.

In terms of ticket "worth" to airlines, it's a cumulative effect. $200 dollars a year spent on one rt barely pays for the operating expenses. That's why airlines were bankrupt prior to finding alternative methods of extracting money with additional "fees". However, why would a company not reward and value a customer that spends $10-20k per year by comparison? That's why Elite ranks exist in frequent traveler programs.

Back to the original topic; I travel weekly between WN and DL. It's subjective and everyone has their stories, but I find DL to be much more accommodating in irregular ops senarios. I've only had 2 on-time flights in the past month on WN, 0 delays on DL.

I have had two flight severely by WN where I asked for a refund and was denied. Both were in May of 2010 and both were weekend DTW/MDW trips (adn it was the same flight that was severely delayed both times) and both times I called 800-IFLYSWA and was told that they wouldn't refund the ticket since the flight flight was going out

If you had called Customer Relations in Dallas (only open M-F business hours though) you would likely have gotten a travel voucher, even if you called weeks later. A letter to them would have been almost certain to succeed. I wouldn't expect most customers to know this, but I hold you to a higher standard: You read FlyerTalk. @:-)

And if you feel like you were mistreated by Delta, I don't blame you. I refuse to fly WN on a long distance trip because of how they handled things for me.

Which is why I refuse to fly on Northwest ever again! Er...wait, forget that.

But, I still avoid United. I can still avoid United, right?

Darn, mergers are really messing up my no fly lists. :p

Which is why I refuse to fly on Northwest ever again! Er...wait, forget that.

But, I still avoid United. I can still avoid United, right?

Darn, mergers are really messing up my no fly lists. :p

Yeah you can still refuse to fly United, they are are still around-for now anyway:) It is very easy to avoid flying Northwest and American West ever again:)

If you had called Customer Relations in Dallas (only open M-F business hours though) you would likely have gotten a travel voucher, even if you called weeks later. A letter to them would have been almost certain to succeed. I wouldn't expect most customers to know this, but I hold you to a higher standard: You read FlyerTalk. @:-)

As a CPA, this doesn't make sense. Let's say I pay $200 for a ticket and the airline can't get me there on time. They can't get me there on time and won't give me a refund. But they do give me a $200 TTF voucher. So I call and complain and then they give me a flight voucher for the inconvenience on top of the TTF credit? It woudl be cheaper for them to refund the money unless they are doing it to try to retain business (and these were DTW to MDW trips and there is one competitor in DTW that does this route and at least four that fly DTW/ORD, and not to mention there is amtrak and mega).

I did have WN send me a voucher many years ago on a delayed flight. Flight was only delayed by like an hour and a couple weeks later I received an apology letter and a $100 LUV voucher which I thought was a nice gesture seeing it was a cheap ticket and I fly enough that I realize an hour or two delay isn't that big of a deal.

Wow, hot topic and long posts. My two cents is that swa does a good job when things get screwed up. I once was in a meeting where the then COO (Gary Barron) stated that swa would rank lower in some of the on-time statistics because their policy was not to cancel flights like others and to get pax to their destinations. I know of many examples where they will hold the sweeper flight at the end of the day to accomodate late connections. And many of us have heard announcements advising pax to hustle over to gate xx because they are expecting you.

And on the issue of changed flights after buying ebci, I have had the ops agent simply give me blue pre-board sleeves including one for my next connection to offset the C boarding number.

My short list of rules.

1. Always have more than one backup flight, and an Ipad

2. Make friends with the ops agents, it will pay off (see above)

3. If you are at the airport early and a plane is at the gate, take it if u can.

4. Avoid row 11 on the new interior

5. Don't ask the pilot if they have been drinking or have had a mental health checkup.

6. On legacy carriers, status matters. On swa being polite and not a PITA matters.

Curious how they handle boarding cards when you are moved to another flight
and paid for EBCI or not?
If you have say A 25 on yr cancelled do you lose that and go to C group?

That exact issue was covered on this week's episode of On the Fly (http://tlc.howstuffworks.com/tv/on-the-fly/videos/wake-up-dude.htm). When it happened to pax in FLL, the Supervisor re-booked them on a later flight and allowed them to board after the "A" group with family boarding.

6. On legacy carriers, status matters. On swa being polite and not a PITA matters.

It matters on legacy carriers, too, especially if you are asking for more than the rules require the airline to do for you.

Curious how they handle boarding cards when you are moved to another flight and paid for EBCI

For A-list (and preferred) there is no accommodation for canceled flights. You get whatever boarding number you get on the new flight. Customer Relations might send you a travel voucher if you gripe politely, but that's about it.

It matters on legacy carriers, too, especially if you are asking for more than the rules require the airline to do for you.



For A-list (and preferred) there is no accommodation for canceled flights. You get whatever boarding number you get on the new flight. Customer Relations might send you a travel voucher if you gripe politely, but that's about it.

Nor do you get anything as a BS customer. I've been moved to other flights and gone from A1 to C-something. And there was nothing I could do at the airport to change that. That sucks.

Nor do you get anything as a BS customer. I've been moved to other flights and gone from A1 to C-something. And there was nothing I could do at the airport to change that. That sucks.

I didnkt know that about a BS fare. They should at least refund you the difference between that and the regular full refundable fare. I realize you get extra points and the free drink, but the biggest advantagae to me would be boarding early, especilaly on a long flight. They should allow BS pax rebooked to board after preboards at least between a-15 and 16.