MilesBuzz! - Why do many people value hotel points (e.g. SPG) over airline miles (e.g. UA MP)?

This is to a certain extent a rhetorical question - I'm really asking this as a gut check for my own needs. I realize some people value aspirational awards on SPG (e.g. St. Regis) but I don't understand why such a large segment, including many of the people I used to work with at a previous large employer, put all their spending on a SPG AMEX instead of focusing on something like Chase Sapphire Preferred or Chase MileagePlus Club?

I understand the allure of cash back cards as I did that for a while before getting married when I was too busy working all the time to take any real vacations that weren't VFR.

Now that I do have some more flexibility and more to my life than work, I can see the value of travel but I think of things this way:

1. Hotels - can always go to Priceline or Hotwire and get a great deal. I've stayed at Marriott properties for $35/night + tax, stayed at the Grand Hyatt NYC for $125/night + tax, and many more deals. We stayed at a nice Canadian PC property that is usually $200/night for $88/night and still got upgraded to the 2nd nicest room because of PC Plat status. Whenever I read about people claiming SPG points are worth $0.026/point, it doesn't jive with me because I never pay those crazy prices for hotel rooms anyway - you can get almost all of them at a discount.

At the end of the day, a hotel room is a hotel room. I've been able to get upgrades even without status by just being nice and lots of others do the same.

2. Airlines - I am not going to Priceline a flight. I have two airports (MDW and ORD) with massive numbers of daily, nonstop flights. When I'm traveling for work, I can't sacrifice 3 extra hours connecting somewhere or arriving too late to make meetings so Priceline doesn't work. Furthermore, when we travel for leisure purposes, as there is no control over how long connections might be.

I realize that in both 1 and 2, using Hotwire or Priceline means little to no flexibility. Hotwire Express membership does allow cancellations and changes for certain situations.

However, even Pricelining flights rarely saves anything substantial and the inconvenience of not knowing flight times and/or connections is painful. When staying in a hotel, a room is a room - check-out and check-in times are relatively constant with +/- 1 hour across most hotels so there's little to lose.

Am I wrong in thinking that Airline Rewards (for a guy like me who is willing to take a 4* or 5* hotel from Priceline/Hotwire and knows how to use betterbidding.com) are more valuable?

I churn cards like a lot of FTers, but I always keep the SPG card. It's the only hotel card worth a d*mn IMO. The main advantage is the flexibility. I use the Starpoints for rooms using Cash & Points primarily and it's a great deal. I also transfer to airlines with the 25% bonus (sometimes you can get a lot more). SPG works with 30 carriers. What's Sapphire got, 5 maybe ? I only redeem airline miles for long-haul F & J. Flights that are so expensive, I would never pay for them. I've got the Sapphire and like it, but it just doesn't do what the SPG does. wj

You don't get EQM or RDM for award flights, and it's much harder to get high status on airlines than it is on many hotel programs. And you often get status progress from reward stays in hotel rooms anyway. Plus, a frequent flier is probably going to have enough points from flying to cover any times where the cash price is abnormally high relative the miles cost.


SPG in particular is great because they are so flexible. You can use them for rooms, but you can also transfer to airlines for more than you would have gotten with the airline cost.

OP, I can think of four reasons. wj touched on two of them and Bttc provides some useful additional info. I'll just expand a bit:

1. You can use your spg points to convert to airline miles on many major carriers at the rate of 20,000 points = 25,000 miles. (Note that UA is a significant exception to this rule, with a worse conversion rate.) So even if you're only interested in redeeming for flights, that's still better than airline-affiliated credit cards for most purchases.
2. Starwood is the best hotel program in terms of flexible ways of using your points for hotel stays, with the best value usually being the combination cash/points for rooms when that option is available. It also has many nice properties, especially overseas.
3. Using the Starwood card grants you the flexibility of deciding down the line between #1 and #2.
4. A minor factor that could affect a minority of people is if you spend enough per year (I believe $30K) on the card, that gets you SPG Gold status. Now, Gold is not anything really special for domestic stays, but in some overseas properties it can get you nice upgrades.

Thanks for all the responses everyone. To summarize, it sounds like SPG is great for:

1. Flexbility - I'm pretty happy with *A redemption for now (2x on Travel/Dining for Sapphire Preferred, 1.5x miles on everything else via United Club Card) so I'm not sure this would matter for me. For UA the conversion rate is pretty crappy due to the Chase - UA relationship.

2. Hotel Stays with Cash/Points - upon further research, it does seem like a good deal. I guess I still feel like the UR Rewards flexibility to take cash, use it for travel, convert it to UA miles, etc. wins out.

3. Status at Hotels - very good point. Had not thought of this before.

4. Aspirational hotel/air - as I pointed out before, this makes sense to me but not my flavor (yet)- maybe once I'm at your guys' level on mastering the whole FF thing :)

Thanks again.

At the end of the day, a hotel room is a hotel room. I've been able to get upgrades even without status by just being nice and lots of others do the same.

It depends on your expectations. If you're happy with a regular room or a slight upgrade to whatever room, then no, you shouldn't care about hotel points. But, scoring that mega-sized 2 bedroom suite with butler service on a C&P rate of $90/night in a major international city does wonders for making your significant other very happy.


2. Airlines - I am not going to Priceline a flight.

I'd never PL a flight. Ever. With airline status, I can get lounge entry, skip the Economy line-ups at check-in and boarding, and probably even upgrade to Business if I stick to my carrier or the alliance it's a part of. Why in the world would I even want to give that up? But, I understand the argument of saving a few $.

I can tolerate an 8 or 10 hour flight in coach but want to spend my two or three week vacation in a really nice room. I can use points to guarantee a nice room in a nice hotel that may cost $350 or more a night. With hotel status I will usually get a breakfast and lounge access. This saves me more money that I can spend on other things.

I do collect airline miles when I fly and have an airline associated card to get the perks it gives. But all my major spending and other credit cards are hotel related.

Please continue to follow this thread in the MilesBuzz Forum..
Thanks.
Obscure2k
TravelBuzz Moderator

I agree with the OP, and I have not stayed in a room I didn't get on Priceline (or occasionally Hotwire) in years, except when going to a convention where I need to be at a specific place. And a fancy hotel room has never done a great deal for me personally.

But reading other comments does make me see how people could certainly value hotel points over airline. And while SPG doesn't have category or threshold bonuses, it does have the 25% bonus on transfers. So you could still use it for both hotels and airlines - especially if you stay in hotels enough (I don't) to get status.

Before I got big into points / miles I used to like the hotel cards because for a fairly modest amount of spend you can get something for free. International airfare might be a huge number of miles for an ordinary spender, but hotels can range anywhere from 3,000 points and up. That makes hotel rewards much more accessible. Also, I always kind of figured it was the incidental costs of travel that added up the most - take the hotel out of that equation and all you need to cover is your meals and entertainment.

Of course, that was before I realized how much you could take advantage of bonuses, portals, promotions . . .

I do not value hotel points very highly. I believe I am in the minority on flyertalk. One reason is I have no option but to travel on a budget. I normally stay at budget to mid-range pensions when traveling internationally. These rooms are usually $25 or less in Latin Am or Asia/$40 in Europe. I LIKE pensions as they have a lot of character and you get to meet the local/owner who often lives at the pension. I have used hotel points for an upscale room night just before coming home from a busy trip and that can be very nice. Also I value the LOCATION of my accommodation much more than luxuries.
However SPG points quite valuable as cash & points. The only card I pay an annual fee on is Capital One Rewards, which gives 2% back on all purchases. The (2%) cash back can be only be applied to reimburse any travel cost including Priceline and of course the cheapest hostel/pension that accepts VISA.
(I am not a youngster if anyone is wondering: I am in late 40's)

If you do play a CC game, I think this whole premise is faulty. Why does it have to be one or another? At some point, you run out of airline credit card sign-up bonuses (at least for a while), so why not load up on hotel points? Having said that, I will admit I don't care much about spending on a card anyway. I don't even have a chance to get to that too often, 'cause I'm always busy meeting the spend requirement. However, when I'm not, I personally prefer to spend on Amex Hilton. 6 points for a $ on many categories plus 3 for everything else. I absolutely love SPG and Amex sign-up bonus, but I canceled their cards a year ago, 'cause I wasn't getting anywhere with them. Same with the airline cards. 1 point on a $ - no, thanks.

Now, if you don't play a CC game, then it's a different story...

i do not orphan miles mentioned. i have a lot of orphan miles. in the past, i have lost a lot of orphan miles. no such problem with either spg or chase. also with those, they transfer to airlines. spg at 1.2 for 1.

my main use of miles is personal travel in biz class tatl. can usually get saver tickets. for hotels, i think one can get a much better value and quality of hotel using venere.com, and staying at independent 4*'s

I guess I feel the opposite of the OP. I travel only a few times a yr. Which airline I fly on isnt important. However, where I stay is. Although I can understand a Pricelined hotel better in an Urban situation. I wouldnt priceline for a hotel because usually I have a specific place I want to stay.

I value airline miles more than Hotel points. Like one OP, when I travel solo, I stay in basic, clean and cheap hotels to meet other travelers. However, when I travel with my family, we stay in nicer hotels using points.

I have already applied for many airline cards for sign up bonus points and pretty much ran out of great offers to apply. This is when i started concentrating on Marriott and Hilton CCs.

I believe you will get a lot of people who think the SPG program is definitely one of the best, just keep in mind, Amex is not accepted everywhere, so if SPG was your only card you'd be frustrated if you could not use it to earn those points.

When I started to concentrate on earning rewards more seriously, I disregarded having many programs to draw from as I lacked respect for some programs for their improbability of getting low level redemption options or typically just didnt think they applied to me. But its their partnerships with their peripherals that can really make an impact. This understanding has changed a lot of what I perceive as a value.

Having a broader spectrum to draw from may become more valuable to you as you move forward.

I have young kids, so I always want a suite so I don't have to go to bed early. I don't believe priceline let's me book suites, although it may have changed. We use hotels when we visit the inlaws (space, sanity) several times a year as well as on vacations.

We only fly as a family once or twice a year, although getting miles together for 4 tix vs one hotel room is also a factor.

I use Delta as my primary airline (I use DTW which is a DL hub so not much choice there) and Hilton as my primary hotel chain.

I find Hilton points are worth a lot more than DL miles. Low mile awards are hard to use on DL and as some other posters pointed out you earn no MQM's on award travel and you are the bottom of the upgrade list on award travel.

I have had a lot of luck using Hilton points during high demand periods (i.e. staying at the Doubletree times square on new years when rates were $7,500 or more for that night on only 50,000 points). I also get three poitns per $ charged on my hilton Am ex as opposed to 1 mile/$ on my delta card so after I have charged $50K to get my 20K MQMs on Delta, my spending goes to the Hilton Am Ex for the rest of the year.

I don't want to priceline a hotel either. A couple reasons. You don't earn hotel points and sometimes hilton has some decent promos (sometimes they have a p romo of a free night certificate with every 4 paid stays). You also don't get any of the perks (upgrade, free breakfast, free wifi). I also like to know the exact location I will be at. I have also had flights cancel due to Mechnical or Weather irops and if it was a priceline stay I would have been stuck paying for the room. WIth HIlton, even if I am past the cancel deadline, when that occurs I just call the property or diamond desk and they get it taken care of. I like having the flexibility of being able to cancel as well if my plans change or if another property ends up dropping their rates after I made the reservation.

I do like using priceline for car rentals though.

If your major airline(s) is UA, then SPG is not for you.

However as others already pointed out SPG has a big portfolio of airline programs to transfer to.

On top of that, many folks already have a ton of miles in multiple programs, however unless you always visit families or bunk up with friends, you would need hotel stays whenever you travel and SPG redemption level is by far the most reasonable among all hotel programs.

We use Priceline too when it makes sense. I often combine pay stay with Priceline stay when I am certain which hotel I would get from Priceline. Or at least I have a very high degree of certainty for an acceptable hotel be won. I would NEVER use Priceline in a location where there would be bad apples.

Recently we had 4 nights / 2 stays at Westin Palace Milano. Priceline cost was about $100 a night, versus the booked direct, prepaid, on SPG's Beatthetimer.com (72 hours sale with European / Middle East hotels) 118 euro. The differential was $50 but being a Star GLD I also get 4pm check out and amenity options (250 SPG pts, free internet or a drink.) When it is all said and done, the net price differential was less than $25 if the free internet option was chosen. I would get a stay credit towards maintaining the status. Finally, by putting the pay night towards the 2nd part of the stay, the hotel was willing to hold our luggage for 4 days when we flew to Prague for a short visit. We would store the luggage at airport or train station anyway if hotel did not provide the service - that alone saved us 40 euro minimum.

You really need to look at your own travel pattern and decide what would be best for you. Upgrades on Priceline is a hit or miss. Count your luck if you get upgrade, but dont count on it happens on a regular basis. Check in late usually get you a better room than booked because hotels tend to assign the lesser rooms first (while blocked the better rooms for guests with status and booked direct with hotel chains). Check in late often means the lesser rooms were already gone. HOWEVER, in a fully sold out situation, check in late could very well result to a Walk! If you have status and book direct with hotel, a Walk usually results to some form of compensation and a free night. If you book with Priceline, you are lucky to just get a room where the hotel sends you over.

Again, if you only use UA miles then SPG is not as advantageous for you as others who use MULTIPLE programs. Diversity is always a better idea in my book.

I have the SPG card but hardly use it. If you have an option to get 2X points on AMEX PR Gold or on your Chase Ink, would you still use your SPG card?

I have the SPG card but hardly use it. If you have an option to get 2X points on AMEX PR Gold or on your Chase Ink, would you still use your SPG card?

Yes. They serve different purposes.

Membership Reward does not transfer to AA for example while SPG does. ditto the Chase UR points.

In general I prefer to gain airline miles over hotel points. I'm generally not picky about where I stay and a good deal of my leisure travel over the past 5 years has involved either stays with family/friends or camping (or both). To me, air travel is a necessity and hotel stays are a luxury.

Whenever I read about people claiming SPG points are worth $0.026/point, it doesn't jive with me because I never pay those crazy prices for hotel rooms anyway - you can get almost all of them at a discount.

All that said, I can't deny the value of SPG points. I have saved a lot of money booking award stays at their low category properties for single night stays as well as a great deal on a nights & flights package in NYC. I would certainly value SPG points at around that point even with mytravel preferences.

If you do play a CC game, I think this whole premise is faulty. Why does it have to be one or another? At some point, you run out of airline credit card sign-up bonuses (at least for a while), so why not load up on hotel points? Having said that, I will admit I don't care much about spending on a card anyway. I don't even have a chance to get to that too often, 'cause I'm always busy meeting the spend requirement. However, when I'm not, I personally prefer to spend on Amex Hilton. 6 points for a $ on many categories plus 3 for everything else. I absolutely love SPG and Amex sign-up bonus, but I canceled their cards a year ago, 'cause I wasn't getting anywhere with them. Same with the airline cards. 1 point on a $ - no, thanks.

Agree with everything stated here. I don't pay the annual fee for any credit card, but the Amex Hilton is a great no annual fee card.

Yes. They serve different purposes.

Membership Reward does not transfer to AA for example while SPG does. ditto the Chase UR points.

I think a point may be missed. If one was clever and could collect 5 UR points per dollar on most spend, how can SPG be move valuable? Point to point yes, but not 1 SPG to 5 UR. And since most of us have access to United at our airports.....I have a very, very hard time recommending SPG except to folks who want to use a card and forget about it.

I rest my case. I am in the boat of folks who don't use SPG that much even though I certainly appreciate the flexibility.

Whenever I read about people claiming SPG points are worth $0.026/point, it doesn't jive with me because I never pay those crazy prices for hotel rooms anyway - you can get almost all of them at a discount.Same logic can apply to the airlines, many wouldn't dream of spending actual $$ for a revenue ticket in F or J.

125,000 marriott points for 50,000 United miles. Not a bad conversion rate.

I still value my United miles (and Chase UR points) highest. But I've got so many of those, and it makes sense to diversify. Right now I've got 400k+ UA RDM (planning to use them soon, just have to figure out schedules before I can book).

My latest app-o-rama will get me 50k SPG, 140k HH, and 100k AA miles. Part of that is I already have 4 Chase cards and didn't want to apply for another yet, but there's also the fact that it's good to have multiple options for redemption. I don't want to have too much tied up in one program. For the near future, the SPG Amex card will be my primary card, except at restaurants and for (non-SPG) travel purchases, where I'll use my Chase Sapphire Preferred.

I have the UA Club card which would get me 1.5miles/$ vs. 1 SPG point/$, but with my current UA balance, there's no need to get more at the moment.

All the minimum spend for the latest app-o-rama will be wedding expenses (getting married next summer). The rewards I earn from it, and probably one more 4-6 card batch in 6 months, will more than cover the honeymoon. UA miles alone couldn't do that. Chase UR *might* be able to, but the bonuses are too big too pass up.

I think a point may be missed. If one was clever and could collect 5 UR points per dollar on most spend, how can SPG be move valuable? Point to point yes, but not 1 SPG to 5 UR. And since most of us have access to United at our airports.....I have a very, very hard time recommending SPG except to folks who want to use a card and forget about it.

I rest my case. I am in the boat of folks who don't use SPG that much even though I certainly appreciate the flexibility.

I believe you would need to be quite clever and quite careful when you try to max the 5 UR pts per $ on "most spend". Too many reloadable cards bought at Office Depot with your Ink Bold may attract some unwanted scrutiny from Chase, just sayin.

For regular, normal spend, even Citi's TYPs would give higher "cash equivalent" value than UR points, again if you know how to accumulate / use it.

Remember, if you only travel on award, you eventually would not earn any mile from flying, but only from spending - if you are a big spender, that would not be an issue. But if your goal is more to the upper end of travel, then you better have a ton spend power if you do not collect any miles via flying. (and the airline status that comes with that once you reach certain level - that enable you to earn bonus ranging from 25% to 100% on your flown miles. Status does matter to some folks.)

Even for the award travel, it really depends on what type of award travel you normally use.

AA has an Explorer award that is a distance-based award, which for those who know how to use it, could possibly be THE most valuable airline award out there among ALL programs. UA does not even have a remotely similar award to this. The RTW award UA offers is quite inflexible and costs almost TWICE the miles for similar itinerary / cabin services using an AA Explorer award.

For some eye-openers, the Explorer Award Sticky in AA forum may offer some "aspiring" ideas on what you can do with such award simply by reading what others proposed itineraries are.

Also for those of us who do prefer travel in business / first class for the longhaul TPAC / TATL flights with premium airlines, the CX business / first class redeemed with AA miles can only be done "economically" (110K in J and 135K in F) and EASILY, with AA miles - when SPG essentially earns 1.25 AA miles per spend therefore would help in getting AA miles. I dont look at the value of the actual ticket cost. I do value the very nice travel experiences such award travel can bring.

SPG point + cash can be a significant saving for many locations around the world. A couple months ago I used 2 nights at 2800 SPG pts + $46 cash at Sheraton MXP - wonderful airport hotel when you arrive at almost midnight, or depart for US in the morning - you can walk right into the airport from the hotel - in my book to stay so close to airport is a luxury and with the SPG point + cash it is a very nice bargain.

Again, it depends on what type(s) of travel you normally do, that would most likely govern what type(s) of points / miles you collect.

It depends on what type of award travel you normally use.

AA has an Explorer award that is a distance-based award, which for those who know how to use it, could possibly THE most valuable airline award out there among ALL programs. UA does not even have a remotely similar award to this. The RTW award UA offers is quite inflexible and costs almost TWICE the miles for similar itinerary / cabin services using an AA Explorer award.

Also for those of us who do prefer travel in business / first class for the longhaul TPAC / TATL flights in premium airlines, the CX business / first class redeemed with AA miles can only be done "economically" (110K in J and 135K in F) and EASILY, with AA miles - when SPG essentially earns 1.25 AA miles per spend. I dont look at the value of the actual ticket cost. I do value the very nice travel experiences such award travel can bring.

SPG point + cash can be a significant saving for many locations around the world. A couple months ago I used 2 nights at 2800 SPG pts + $46 cash at Sheraton MXP - wonderful airport hotel when you arrive at almost midnight, or depart for US in the morning - you can walk right into the airport from the hotel - in my book to stay so close to airport is a luxury and with the SPG point + cash it is a very nice bargain.

Again, it depends on what type(s) of travel you normally do, that would most likely govern what type(s) of points / miles you collect.

Fair points. I would point out that, using your math, that 5/1.25=4. So, taking hotel out of this, you are getting 4 times the airline miles that easily makes up for a double in price for RTW fare. Can't argue with your other points; American has pretty lousy service at my airport to hard to use them much for my business travel.

Fair points. I would point out that, using your math, that 5/1.25=4. So, taking hotel out of this, you are getting 4 times the airline miles that easily makes up for a double in price for RTW fare. Can't argue with your other points; American has pretty lousy service at my airport to hard to use them much for my business travel.

One thing I have long learned is, position flight is sometimes a necessary evil. Position flights could even be on WN or B6 if they are cheap and convenient!
Once you get over that part, then you can look at a much broader picture.

One thing I have long learned is, position flight is sometimes a necessary evil. Position flights could even be on WN or B6 if they are cheap and convenient!
Once you get over that part, then you can look at a much broader picture.

Trust me, I know that as I often position for mileage runs (I've positioned to LAX twice and DCA once). However, most of my travel is domestic and since my business travel is on Delta and I have good United service, I focus on those airlines. Like you said, it is very much about what is important to the user and I can avoid positioning for rewards this way.

Now, is Delta moves to 1 cpm, my business use of United is about to to through the roof.

IMO, if you are using your airlines miles for international Business or First Class redemption, then you are almost always going to get more 'value' out of airline miles vs any kind of hotel redemption you might be able to get.

But to me, both types of points are valuable and necessary. The same way that I'd never spend $8,000+ on international round trip airfare, I'd never spend $6,000+ for a week stay in a suite at a hotel. But 80k airline miles and 150k hotel points for that kind of trip? In a heartbeat.

This is what I love about FT. All these perspectives from all sorts of different folks. I hadn't even thought about the fact that type of room booked (which Priceline doesn't offer and Hotwire does rarely) matters a lot once you have kids.

But to me, both types of points are valuable and necessary. The same way that I'd never spend $8,000+ on international round trip airfare, I'd never spend $6,000+ for a week stay in a suite at a hotel. But 80k airline miles and 150k hotel points for that kind of trip? In a heartbeat.

Thanks to Hilton Points I have been able to spend a couple new years eves right in the heart of times square. I would never pay $7,500+ for a hotel room for a night, but for 50K points-no brainer.

I focused on hotel points in my last churn because I find them to be more valuable in extending the length of a vacation. When I travel overseas, I want to go for 2-3 weeks at a time. The number of airline miles I have does not affect the overall cost of the vacation as the vacation gets longer, but hotel points can result in huge savings for multi-week trips. I'm still young and don't have a ton of disposable income yet, so being able to take extended vacations to faraway places with minimal cash outlay is priority #1 at this point in my life.

We have a lot of 1x business spend that can be unwieldy to put on separate gift cards, so earning 1.25 AA miles/$ (or even SQ miles, or JAL miles now that they're changing the chart, or AS miles to top off our accounts) makes sense with the SPG AmEx. The UC Visa earns 1.5x, but we already have tons of UR points/UA miles, and diversity is the way to play.

We don't have any use at all for hotel points, so our focus is entirely on airline-branded cards where we can earn status (DL MQM-earning cards) or where there are short-term opportunities (like BA and AA cards) and the flexible-transfer type card programs, like Chase UR and AMEX MR.

With the exception of a few spectacular properties in each of the major hotel chains, I'm not interested in the chain-hotel experience at all. There is just something wrong about waking up in a Hilton hotel in Bangkok, looking around the room, and not being able to tell whether you are in Cleveland or Boise. I don't care if it is free - for me having that generic an experience is a very expensive missed opportunity.

We'd much rather stay in a beautifully-rennovated shophouse boutique inn in Singapore, or a charming guest house along the garden route in South Africa, or a Relais & Châteaux castle hotel in Europe. Sure, they are pricy at times (not always), but I'd rather pay for an authentic experience than get a completely homogenized experience for free.

Just my 2 cents.

But to me, both types of points are valuable


That is the bottom line for me, too.

I like to save up both hotel & airline miles for big aspirational-type vacations from start to finish, including hotel & airline.

To do that takes both types of points, or programs like UR and SPG that offer flexibility.

I feel SPG offers the most flexibility for my needs, but I will still take 2x UR over 1x SPG.

However, when I am not meeting a minimum spend requirement, and choose which card to put spend on, I am tied between UA Club at 1.5x per dollar, or SPG at 1x. It usually depends on if I have enough airline miles, which I usually do. I am usually short hotel points, but have boatloads of airline miles.

I'm in favor of keeping several different card products at the same time.

There are a few cards I know I'll keep for the indefinite future and they are all Hotel cards. I like airline cards but primarily for the signup bonuses.

Here are the cards that are going to stick with me for a long time:

1. SPG Amex - I love this card b/c of the options it gives you. If you time it right, you can get 1.9-2.2 US Air miles/ dollar spent on your SPG card. 20,000 SPG transfers to 25,000 US Air and from time to time US Air offers 50-75% bonuses on hotel point transfers. Yes, the Chase Saphire gets 2x travel but this is only on travel related spend. I also like the ability to transfer to AA to get access to CX and EY flights in F. I also get SPG gold status.
2. Chase Marriott The annual fee on this card is paid for through the free night certificate (up to Cat 5) and I get 15 elite nights annually plus 1 elite night/ $3K spent. Marriott is my go to Hotel chain so elite nights matter for me.
3. Chase Priority Club I rarely stay at PC hotels but like the Marriott card, this one is paid for through the free night cert (can be used at any PC property). This free night cert has a lot of value to me. This year we're using it at the Intercon Istanbul (a ~$400 value).
4. Hilton Amex No fee on this card so why not keep it forever? I like the 50K signup and I like the 6x on gas and supermarkets. I also like the Hilton Maldives options for a future anniversary trip.

Hotel points are like a ying and yang sort of equation. The only way you get to truly enjoy them is when you use them for the awesome awards. The places that cost 300-400/nt (and it might not even be luxury, think location location location).

Ski/beach/golf resorts or hotels in city centers can cost more to stay at. And many times the vacation is much more enjoyable to stay at that place that costs a couple hundred a night using your hotel points.

Many times you can fly to some ski or beach areas for a $2-3-400 bucks, but having "location, location, location" costs you money or time. Do you want to shuttle yourself around on vacation back to the cheap villas and hotels? Its an option, but the hotel is what makes or breaks a vacation for some.

But the SPG card rules for cash+points and airline redemptions when you are unsure of the best carrier (with reward availability) to get the job done.

I aM not a huge fan of the vastly over-rated SPG card, yet I keep both the personal and business versions. The sole reason is the 2 stay / 5 night credits you get or each. For my wife though we dropped the card, just not enough value.

Through new card sign ups and catgory bonuses I am never, EVER earning less than 2 miles per $ on ANY card so anyone applauding the 1.25x earning rate of the SPG card simply isn't maximizing their spend pattern sufficiently.

When are not doing minimum spend on new cards, we have some keepers in our stable.

1. Wife's SPG: The Cash & Points are very valuable. Like one of the previous posters mentioned, we used the C & P for our Milan trip. One at the A/P Sheraton. Nice to stay there before an early morning flight.

2. Wife's Sapphire Preferred: Our "go to" card after SPG. Especially when used for travel. I am authorized user on that card so have more spend.

3. My Priority Club: Platinum Status when card is kept and one free night at any hotel in PC including Intercontinentals make it a keeper. Also their pointbreaks special for 5K is great!! We mostly use our points for that.

4. My Penfed Visa & AMEX. No annual fees and 5% on gas (Visa), 5 pts/$ on airfares, etc. (AMEX). They gave me very decent limits--my highest ones.

5. Wife's Marriott & Hilton AMEX. Marriott--free night on annual renewals. Also, Hilton AMEX, certain category bonuses & no annual fee.

I used to do Priceline on hotels alot but not as much presently. Only when PL is much less than booking direct we would use PL now.

As for PL airfare, the last time I used that was in late 2000 for April 2001 travel when they were giving a $50 bonus for each ticket and I bought LAX-SFO & LAX-PHX both for $100 ai. I got a $600 VDB bump in PHX which I used to buy 4 transcons (plus $20 cash needed for the 4 tickets :)). After that time, I didn't touch PL for bidding on air. Just the occasional rental car and hotels.

Through new card sign ups and catgory bonuses I am never, EVER earning less than 2 miles per $ on ANY card so anyone applauding the 1.25x earning rate of the SPG card simply isn't maximizing their spend pattern sufficiently.

The effective earning rate on the SPG card is far higher than 1.25x. As I said in my post, through hotel transfer bonuses to US Airways I can get above 2x and that's on every dollar spent not just gas, supermarket, or travel.

The option value afforded by the many carriers that participate in SPG's transfer program should not be underestimated. You never know when you may need a top off in an account or when another carrier could get you access to availability that's blocked elsewhere in a network.

Same here - I always take it up a notch when traveling with the family.

Same here, I always step it up a notch when I travel with my family

Through new card sign ups and catgory bonuses I am never, EVER earning less than 2 miles per $ on ANY card so anyone applauding the 1.25x earning rate of the SPG card simply isn't maximizing their spend pattern sufficiently.

For me, it's not the 1.25x rate, it's the total number of partner airlines.

Converting Starpoints to airline miles is something I only do to top off for an award - the points are far too valuable to burn that way on a regular basis. A lot of times I'm not getting 1.25...I'm just doing 1:1, maybe a few hundred or few thousand miles max.

To answer the OP's question, I value both airline miles and hotel points and, for certain stays, I'll even look at what people are getting from Priceline when I'm making a hotel booking. However, I redeem Starpoints in quite a few places where Priceline either doesn't exist or the winning bids show a pattern of a certain hotel I don't want to be in.

You mention $0.026 per Starpoint...I always get more than that, usually 4-5 cpp, and that's typically in the middle categories and frequently a C&P award. In markets where the USD is comparatively weak or the hotel tax rate on revenue rooms is very high, the points can go a long way.

Within the U.S. and Canada, I don't do many award redemptions. Maybe a little bit of C&P. It's usually easier to find a decent hotel rate for a points-earning stay or have a reliable Priceline experience if you want to go that way.

The effective earning rate on the SPG card is far higher than 1.25x. As I said in my post, through hotel transfer bonuses to US Airways I can get above 2x and that's on every dollar spent not just gas, supermarket, or travel.

The option value afforded by the many carriers that participate in SPG's transfer program should not be underestimated. You never know when you may need a top off in an account or when another carrier could get you access to availability that's blocked elsewhere in a network.

On the one hand you are saying you get extra value through US Air transfer bonuses. Transfer bonuses from US Airways are infrequent and hard to predict or rely on, and other airline transfer bonuses are extremely rare to non-existent. So it's a real stretch to rely on these.

And on the other hand you are valuing the "option" value. Well that option ain't worth much given it is just one carrier with unpredictable bonuses that you can utilize high earning on.

While it may be narrower in focus, real option value comes from cash-back cards. I use Amex Preferred at groceries and via gift cards extend that to a lot of other areas like gas, clothes (via likes of Nordstrom, Macys, Sears), restaurants and Amazon. I get 6% cash back. If I want SPG I can buy them for 3.5 cents each, so I can earn SPG at 1.71x rather than the 1x you get using your SPG card, so by your math I am actually able to earn 3.42x on a pretty broad junk of spend. I can also buy Chase UR or Amex MR in more or less unlimited quantities at 2.5 cents each, so I am earning 2.4x if that is my points destination of choice. I can buy pretty much any carriers miles at around 3.5x and they all run various promos on that (though anyone paying more than 2.5 cents / mile for any currency that can be converted from Chase or Amex needs to learn about buying those points). And heck if I want cold, hard cash I can get that too. And cash is king. This is what real option value is. If I want to expand to travel, there are options to do that too with high cashback earning rates (like for example Travelocity Amex with it's 10%)

So this is why I stand by my feeling that the SPG card is just way over-rated, and cash-back cards are way under-rated because people overlook the ability to buy miles and points.

Buying SPG for 3.5cpp is very limited - there's a pretty low annual cap. (This is a good thing for the stability of the program as a whole.)

Don't disagree on the utility of cashback cards though. I'm not really one to carry around a bunch of cards for different spending categories, but I can see the appeal of cashback if you do happen to hit the right categories for a lot of your spending.

Yes but that cap is 20k per year, and they have run the odd promo allowing you to buy more or even get more free. 20k a year is still $20,000 spend on a basic SPG Amex card, that frankly is way more than the average person spends on a card like that in a year.

If you are a big spender, or have a lot of SPG spend, and you don't want the hassle of dealing with buying GCs at your local Harris Teeter to pay for your gas and clothes, I can see the appeal. Personally I've become too obsessed to leave so many points on the table!!!

Amex MR allows you to buy up to 500k per year

Chase UR appears to be unlimited

Most airlines allow somewhere in the 50-100k range per year

------------------


So this is why I stand by my feeling that the SPG card is just way over-rated, and cash-back cards are way under-rated because people overlook the ability to buy miles and points.U have a point. However it is more applicable to your situation. Unlike u, not everybody has easily available access to buy miles/points readily and having things in control by having SPG in own account surely helps. Time is of essence to most people so having a ready access to SPG helps. SPG are also pretty helpful in FT trades as being a very sought after currency (or at least used to be).

Having said that I am defending SPG points more than the SPG card. I have ample SPG so I take my spending elsewhere (AMEX HH, Chase Freedom etc.). YMMV ..

U have a point. However it is more applicable to your situation. Unlike u, not everybody has easily available access to buy miles/points readily and having things in control by having SPG in own account surely helps. Time is of essence to most people so having a ready access to SPG helps. SPG are also pretty helpful in FT trades as being a very sought after currency (or at least used to be). YMMV ..

There is nothing special about me that enables me to buy points. I can buy SPG points from spg.com I can buy airline points from their own websites. If you have any Amex Membership Rewards Card or any Chase UR card you can buy points from them.

And trading miles here on FT is dicey at best, and SPG value is now in the gutter as you can't transfer to someone not living at your address, and if you try to game that good chance you are going to lose a big chunk of points at some point.

and I will add that buying points is usually instant. so you just leave your cash sitting in an account "at the ready" for when you need to buy miles/points either to take advantage of a promo or for a specific promo.

i've always thought cash-back is the way to go if you can get really high earnings rate, but i am actually convincing myself of this even more strongly as i write all this. the more i think about it the more it really makes absolute sense.

I think the newer cards have perhaps usurped some value from SPG card, but there's a lot of times it's not worth it to try and extract maximum value. For instance, I need to stop at CVS later today and get shampoo. Am I really going to go to Office Depot to buy a CVS gift card on my Ink Bold for a $10 purchase? No way--not worth my time. So I'll just use the card that gives me the most value for 1x spend--the SPG. Over time, that adds up.

Regarding access to the points in general...that could be another reason people like hotel credit cards in general. Airline miles are easy to accumulate in large quantities through any number of partners. Hotel points tend to be a *little* tougher on that front. So purely from a diversification perspective, there's some appeal there.

For years, I was primarily a Marriott guest for my business stays. I was an AA flier. So my Marriott Rewards account was always flush, and I knew I had access to that AA->HH transfer that I considered a very fair trade at the time - a rarity indeed. Therefore, I was led to the SPG Amex as my primary credit card simply to get the diversification - it was my only way to build an SPG balance. That way, I had max coverage worldwide when I wanted to redeem a hotel award.

Then the AA->HH transfer kept getting more complicated and less valuable, and then Marriott dumped the EEO's that were a major benefit of Gold/Plat - second only to the points themselves. So now I'm doing most hotel stays at Starwood and shifting CC spend to the HH Amex to keep the diversification. I'm still doing just enough Marriott to maintain a slow crawl to my next travel package, but eventually I'll probably be out of Marriott entirely. Unless EEO's come back or elite member benefits are added to resorts, weekends, and Courtyards.

I think the newer cards have perhaps usurped some value from SPG card, but there's a lot of times it's not worth it to try and extract maximum value. For instance, I need to stop at CVS later today and get shampoo. Am I really going to go to Office Depot to buy a CVS gift card on my Ink Bold for a $10 purchase? No way--not worth my time. So I'll just use the card that gives me the most value for 1x spend--the SPG. Over time, that adds up.

I agree with this logic. I don't want to spend the time running around buying gift cards and working so hard to maximize points. I do take advantage of portals - and that has substantially cut into my SPG spend - but beyond that I have a few cards I use for category bonuses and that's about it.

As an OT Aside (since you mentioned drug store purchases) - if you have a UR card drugstore.com is GREAT. Cheaper than local drugstores (sometimes by a lot), free, fast, efficient shipping on any order over $25, and right now has 10pts / $. WAY better than 1 SPG point.

I think the newer cards have perhaps usurped some value from SPG card, but there's a lot of times it's not worth it to try and extract maximum value. For instance, I need to stop at CVS later today and get shampoo. Am I really going to go to Office Depot to buy a CVS gift card on my Ink Bold for a $10 purchase? No way--not worth my time. So I'll just use the card that gives me the most value for 1x spend--the SPG. Over time, that adds up.

Yes that is fair enough and I whole-heatedly agree. It can get too much of a pain. That is why I restrict it things that are quite easy to manage (buy one gas card a week and just leave it in the car so when I hit the pump it's there, and big buy items like if I want to get a new suit at Nordies I'll happily stop by Harris Teeter on my way to load up on $600 worth of gift cards)

I would also agree that 2 years ago the SPG card was significantly more appealing versus the competition. Back then there was no Chase Ultimate Rewards, Amex Premier Gold was quite new and even today has a very expensive fee, and the Amex Preferred Cash Back card was not available at all.

I like points because I use free rental car days, and free hotel stays, and get free products with them. When you convert your points into miles you get much less for your effort for earning them. Miles are nice but I'd rather have 7 free hotel days and 7 free rental car days then $200 off a flight.


-Patrick

In case people can't decipher the messages for themselves I value SPG points over airline miles in any program.

1. You can convert spg to airline miles (us air promo, avios promo, aa promo) and hit some nice promos to transfer your points into those programs if needed.

2. You cannot convert airline miles to hotel points, thus spg points give you a lot of flexiblity.

3. I won't go on and on about how great of a value I have gotten on recent redemptions, but I have gotten 10 cpp in the past and typically get 4-6 cpp using c and p. It should also be noted that now that spg gives stay/night credit on award stays the points are more valuable when used for spg hotel stays.

4. if you get a 2% cash back card, great. However, I and many others get thousands of dollars back in savings each year based on our spg point redemptions for either airline miles or spg hotel stays. I anticipate to reep savings that will dwarf any cash back card. I'm not a business traveler thus every charge counts for me and I choose to get the spg points whenever possible.

5. Lastly it is much easier to churn airline cards as many programs have multiple cards you can sign up for. With spg you can get the personal and biz amex that is it. Thus the airlines miles IMO are easier to come by.

I like those people who have posted their niche CC usage for maximum benefit keep it coming. For me I am an SPG amex guy mostly just to get those spg points we all value so much.

I understand where you are coming from but consider this:

1. Even if you ignore the flexibility of SPG to airline transfers, you can get 1.875 US mile/SPG point when the 50% hotel bonus is on once a year. So at a bare minimum, SPG is worth 1.875cpm if you value US miles at 1 cpm.

2. SPG has a sweet spot. It's not N. America and it's not Europe. In N. America, most hotels are cheap enough that redeeming points or C&P doesn't make sense. Places where the hotels are expensive (HI, NYC, etc.), they are usually expensive on awards as well, so I look for a vacation rental or an apartment. In Europe, most hotels are expensive both in cash and on points (or on C&P). So again you are better off staying in a pension or an apartment, which is what I do. Having some hotel points is still good when you need that one off night in NYC and everything is close to sold out and roach motels are charging $250. But the sweet spot is in places like S. America, Asia and Africa. There are no apartments in these places and I really appreciate Western chains in places like Egypt. That's where you should use your points. Despite high cash prices, the hotels are usually lower category making for cheap awards. Go look at hotels in India for example. Or the LM Pyramids Cairo or LM Amman - see the cash price and then see the SPG C&P price.

I have stayed at LM Pyramids (not a great property at all) as well as the LM Amman (very nice). I don't want to stay in an apartment in foreign countries usually for I'm most likely going there for the first time and would like the services of the hotel etc. Free breakfast, as well as all the benefits of platinum status etc.

I have rented an apartment in Rio De Janiero for example but cash and points is a good value usually almost everywhere you find it. Big cities in NA are great values usually. Cat 3-5 is where I have the best luck. Although in Asia Cat 1,2 as well.

All in all, different strokes for different folks, not one size fits all certainly.

On the one hand you are saying you get extra value through US Air transfer bonuses. Transfer bonuses from US Airways are infrequent and hard to predict or rely on, and other airline transfer bonuses are extremely rare to non-existent. So it's a real stretch to rely on these.

And on the other hand you are valuing the "option" value. Well that option ain't worth much given it is just one carrier with unpredictable bonuses that you can utilize high earning on.

While it may be narrower in focus, real option value comes from cash-back cards. I use Amex Preferred at groceries and via gift cards extend that to a lot of other areas like gas, clothes (via likes of Nordstrom, Macys, Sears), restaurants and Amazon. I get 6% cash back. If I want SPG I can buy them for 3.5 cents each, so I can earn SPG at 1.71x rather than the 1x you get using your SPG card, so by your math I am actually able to earn 3.42x on a pretty broad junk of spend. I can also buy Chase UR or Amex MR in more or less unlimited quantities at 2.5 cents each, so I am earning 2.4x if that is my points destination of choice. I can buy pretty much any carriers miles at around 3.5x and they all run various promos on that (though anyone paying more than 2.5 cents / mile for any currency that can be converted from Chase or Amex needs to learn about buying those points). And heck if I want cold, hard cash I can get that too. And cash is king. This is what real option value is. If I want to expand to travel, there are options to do that too with high cashback earning rates (like for example Travelocity Amex with it's 10%)

So this is why I stand by my feeling that the SPG card is just way over-rated, and cash-back cards are way under-rated because people overlook the ability to buy miles and points.

Some of us (myself included) put perhaps 1%-2% of our annual spend on those categories. So speaking for myself, I have no interest in those cards with bonus points on various categories when the points earned on "everything else" is poor.

As for your stating cash-back cards are way under-rated I would say that most people who don't travel much should definitely be using a 2% cash back on everything card as opposed to whatever they likely have in their wallet. But once again, speaking for myself, I get much better than a 2% return using my SPG card so I would only use a CB card for the times a vendor didn't take Amex.

At the end of the day it's subjective. If something works for you then go for it.

I have long found Hotel points easier to redeem than airline miles. My schedule changes so often it is hard for me to plan family vacations too far in advance. At the last minute there is virtually no way for me to use my AA miles for a fam of 4. I can redeem on WN but hate to connect while on vacation. For that reason Marriott points are gold for me...
When traveling on business I will drive 30 minutes or so out of my way just to stay in a Marriott property. I'm redeeming at the end of the month in Kansas City at the Old Vista downtown, and Labor Day weekend at the JW San Antonio Hill Country. The last two times at the JW I've been upgraded to suites, including three nights in the Comal room (Their Presidential on an award stay.)

1. the variety of hotels in the world drawfs the variety in airlines that i'd want to experience.
2. when i get to my destination i like having a place to sleep that i've selected based on the kind of trip i want to take.


i do things to get miles. i do things to get hotel points. really, its all dependent on how you like to travel. be glad you have that flexibility instead of wondering if the grass is greener.

Smilinganddialing, I don't know how long you've been traveling but I think you're going to find the hotel deals on Priceline/Hotwire will become few and far between soon.
Why? I've been looking at hotel RevPAR, occupancy rates, and average room charges recently. They're all moving up. In 1Q2012, RevPAR moved up, on average, >7% year over year.
What you're going to start seeing is that hotels will have less excess inventory to dump on Priceline/Hotwire. And the inventory that they do dump there will be priced higher.

I have the following hotel cards:
SPG AmEx - good earn + 2stay/5night credit toward elite status annually.
Hyatt Visa - Platinum status (don't need it, as I'm Diamond), one free night/yr. $75 annual fee - the free night more than covers the fee.
Marriott Premier Visa - 15night credit toward elite status annually, 1 elite night/$3000 spend. One free night/yr. $85 annual fee - again, the free night covers the fee
Best deal:
Priority Club Visa - Platinum status. One free night/yr at any hotel including Intercontinental. $49 annual fee.

I primarily use the SPG AmEx and Hyatt is my secondary. I use the other cards at their affiliated hotels. I'm also looking at adding a Hilton card in the next few days.

I'm in a somewhat unique position. I'm an airline pilot so I don't need airline miles for tickets; I can fly standby.
I do spend a lot of nights in hotels and I like the fact that hotel chains extend me elite benefits while staying as aircrew. I get lounge access at Hyatt, Hilton, and Marriott. I don't have lounge access yet at Starwood because I haven't gotten Platinum status with them yet this year but I'm working on it. Priority Club is a crapshoot as to what the hotel will do for me. One thing that never happens when staying as aircrew is an upgraded room - the rooms are preassigned to crewmembers so I never see a suite or any other type of room upgrade.

In my case, hotel credit cards are infinitely more valuable than airline credit cards.


This is to a certain extent a rhetorical question - I'm really asking this as a gut check for my own needs. I realize some people value aspirational awards on SPG (e.g. St. Regis) but I don't understand why such a large segment, including many of the people I used to work with at a previous large employer, put all their spending on a SPG AMEX instead of focusing on something like Chase Sapphire Preferred or Chase MileagePlus Club?

I understand the allure of cash back cards as I did that for a while before getting married when I was too busy working all the time to take any real vacations that weren't VFR.

Now that I do have some more flexibility and more to my life than work, I can see the value of travel but I think of things this way:

1. Hotels - can always go to Priceline or Hotwire and get a great deal. I've stayed at Marriott properties for $35/night + tax, stayed at the Grand Hyatt NYC for $125/night + tax, and many more deals. We stayed at a nice Canadian PC property that is usually $200/night for $88/night and still got upgraded to the 2nd nicest room because of PC Plat status. Whenever I read about people claiming SPG points are worth $0.026/point, it doesn't jive with me because I never pay those crazy prices for hotel rooms anyway - you can get almost all of them at a discount.

At the end of the day, a hotel room is a hotel room. I've been able to get upgrades even without status by just being nice and lots of others do the same.

2. Airlines - I am not going to Priceline a flight. I have two airports (MDW and ORD) with massive numbers of daily, nonstop flights. When I'm traveling for work, I can't sacrifice 3 extra hours connecting somewhere or arriving too late to make meetings so Priceline doesn't work. Furthermore, when we travel for leisure purposes, as there is no control over how long connections might be.

I realize that in both 1 and 2, using Hotwire or Priceline means little to no flexibility. Hotwire Express membership does allow cancellations and changes for certain situations.

However, even Pricelining flights rarely saves anything substantial and the inconvenience of not knowing flight times and/or connections is painful. When staying in a hotel, a room is a room - check-out and check-in times are relatively constant with +/- 1 hour across most hotels so there's little to lose.

Am I wrong in thinking that Airline Rewards (for a guy like me who is willing to take a 4* or 5* hotel from Priceline/Hotwire and knows how to use betterbidding.com) are more valuable?

Some of us (myself included) put perhaps 1%-2% of our annual spend on those categories. So speaking for myself, I have no interest in those cards with bonus points on various categories when the points earned on "everything else" is poor.

As for your stating cash-back cards are way under-rated I would say that most people who don't travel much should definitely be using a 2% cash back on everything card as opposed to whatever they likely have in their wallet. But once again, speaking for myself, I get much better than a 2% return using my SPG card so I would only use a CB card for the times a vendor didn't take Amex.

At the end of the day it's subjective. If something works for you then go for it.

I certainly agree it is very specific. Possibly even subjective, though in reality there is likely a best/worst combo for any specific situation, but that is pure semantics

However I would take issue with the point that people have 1-2% spend in those categories. Again in specific circumstances yes, but for the majority of regular middle class Americans who have access to these credit cards, groceries and gas are significant spend items and definitely way over 1-2%. And I am not talking about 2% cash back. I am talking about 6%. It is a huge difference.

SPG has a sweet spot. It's not N. America and it's not Europe..

I don't know...I've had some excellent redemptions in Europe. 8,500 points for a junior suite for 4 people at Oktoberfest in a room that would have been 500+ euros. (Even cheap 2-twin rooms in the city were going for 300 euros. Another 8,500 for a junior suite at the Westin at the finish line of the Berlin Marathon...that hotel was 400 euros a night and anyone looking to spend "normal" rates (100 euros or so) was a 45 minute train ride away.

In the U.S., I look at having access to awards as opening up prime hotels for special events that I'd never book otherwise. The top hotels for things like the Rose Bowl, NYC Marathon, Chicago Marathon, etc. Marriott and HHonors frequently game the system to make it hard to use points during these types of regional events. Starwood doesn't. (To be fair, I've never tried to book a room at the Olympics, World Cup, or Super Bowl. Guessing everybody games their system for those.) Sure, it'd be easy to Priceline a room 30 miles away but being able to use points makes for a much more enjoyable weekend...

Lately I've been on a roll booking Africa/Middle East/Asia, but I still think there's a lot of value there for Europe/U.S. if you play it right.

I used my SPG points mostly at category 2 hotels. It costs 3000 pts per night on weekend at most of the places I've been to, such as Orlando FL, Allentown PA, Richmond VA, and Virginia Beach. The costs are about $99-$149/night. But only cost me 3000 SPG pts/night, no tax or fees. Can't beat that even with Priceline.

I thought this was a good time to bring this thread up given that every major hotel program has announced a major devaluation with the exception of Hyatt and SPG. Priceline looks better and better. I just Pricelined a Hyatt Regency for $120/night below retail cost (e.g 68% off) today - to hell with the points.

IMO - Where you do tend to save with hotel and travel cards are the times when you have to fly/stay a ton or deal with expensive trips.

I usually priceline everything, but have saved $1k+ many times through SPG cash+points (like a 10 day stay in a cat 5 hotel). Similarly for air travel, some sectors are notoriously expensive (like Toronto - East Coast except for NYC can be $500+ each way last minute) but if you see UA's availability, there is a 12.5k miles ticket everyday. Similarly, I just booked a business class asia trip for my wife's parents who were ready to buy it for $5k cash, for $1.7k. Glad they asked, right?

So to compare it all to one $100 stay or a $150 flight where you saved 50 bucks is not the point. If you travel/stay a "lot", "then" in the "grand" scheme of things, you "tend" to save with miles/points on stays and flights.

OP - I value hotel deals better because they are more flexible and easy to redeem when needed. I don't have to wait for that once in a lifetime vacation airtrip. Also with $100-$300 hotel stays in almost any big city, you get to a redeemable size of point stash much more quickly than 400-1000 mile air-tickets. Simple.

IMO - Where you do tend to save with hotel and travel cards are the times when you have to fly/stay a ton or deal with expensive trips.

I usually priceline everything, but have saved $1k+ many times through SPG cash+points (like a 10 day stay in a cat 5 hotel). Similarly for air travel, some sectors are notoriously expensive (like Toronto - East Coast except for NYC can be $500+ each way last minute) but if you see UA's availability, there is a 12.5k miles ticket everyday. Similarly, I just booked a business class asia trip for my wife's parents who were ready to buy it for $5k cash, for $1.7k. Glad they asked, right?

So to compare it all to one $100 stay or a $150 flight where you saved 50 bucks is not the point. If you travel/stay a "lot", "then" in the "grand" scheme of things, you "tend" to save with miles/points on stays and flights.

OP - I value hotel deals better because they are more flexible and easy to redeem when needed. I don't have to wait for that once in a lifetime vacation airtrip. Also with $100-$300 hotel stays in almost any big city, you get to a redeemable size of point stash much more quickly than 400-1000 mile air-tickets. Simple.

Of course there's always the risk that points devalue. Lately it seems like many major hotel chains have devalued their redemptions (Marriott, Wyndham, Priority Club, Hilton today) sometimes by as much as 90% (or nearly double the required points). As bad as airline award chart devaluations have been, I haven't seen nearly as dramatic a devaluation.

I don't know how many points people in this thread have that they are staying for long periods in very nice hotel rooms, but with all of the hotel program devaluations lately, it's hard to imagine having enough points for anything useful.

I had 100,000 Hilton points, which I just dumped for 4 nights + $85 a night in Buenos Aires, and I didn't think I was getting a steal.

The only program that seems worthwhile now, is Club Carlson. I like Starwood, but only for the benefit of transferring points for miles.

I also keep my Priority Club card and account, because of the Platinum status, but that's it. PC's redemption rules aren't anything to brag about.

At a high level the reason that hotel programs don't make sense is that (a) from a business perspective, you often need to depart and arrive at certain times - to make meetings, to attend a conference, to be back in time for a personal event, etc.

A hotel is a hotel. It is a relatively replaceable quantity. A hotel in the downtown of a major metro area with a certain level of cleanliness, comfort, and convenience suffices for most people.

When traveling for personal travel, you still don't usually want to Priceline because you don't know how many stops you'll have and I'd argue that there's a far greater variance between being nobody and somebody (high status) on an airline than at a hotel (bigger room and some cheap champagne?).

Furthermore, think of it this way. Sure you may value the way hotel points rack up and folks whose company allows them to stay anywhere and aren't spending their own cash certainly should take the points. For everyone with their own business or traveling for fun, it's much better to Priceline and save 20 - 50% off even the best discounted rates. That beats the value of hotel points any day. At best, hotel points represent 10% back. I'll take the dollars and the flexibility.

If airlines join hotels in program devaluation, you can be sure that most of us will be switching to 2% credit cards and only using airline/hotel cards for signup bonuses.

To the original topic:

I value hotel points because I can generally use them when I want to use them for the property I want.

I don't value airline miles as highly because I have difficulty using them for the trips I want to purchase at "saver" award prices. So I end up accumulating them until I find a rare occasion when they buy something I want.

Dang, as someone who was a big HHonors, Marriott, and Starwood fanboy in this thread earlier, I am now officially licking my wounds in February 2013, having been stung with three devaluations and more category creep to come. :(

Sitting here with an SPG Amex and HH Amex, I honestly don't know what my credit card strategy is going forward. Believe it or not, it might actually be to go back to the Mileage Plus Visa. Or a cashback card. Or just conduct all business using a barter system of old-fashioned cash, ammo, cigarettes, and bourbon. Maybe that's the way to go... :o

I haven't Pricelined very much, but can someone explain the very basics of getting these great prices on priceline?

I'm guessing it's through Name Your Own Price and rebidding, but there is no way to guarantee a Hyatt, a SPG, a Hilton, etc. right? So if I know I want to stay at a particulair Hyatt or SPG because I have status and avoid Marriott's because I don't, there's no way to guarantee this and get the NYOP deep discounts?

Or am I missing something?

I haven't Pricelined very much, but can someone explain the very basics of getting these great prices on priceline?

I'm guessing it's through Name Your Own Price and rebidding, but there is no way to guarantee a Hyatt, a SPG, a Hilton, etc. right? So if I know I want to stay at a particulair Hyatt or SPG because I have status and avoid Marriott's because I don't, there's no way to guarantee this and get the NYOP deep discounts?

Or am I missing something?

The answer is... it depends.

Hotwire: unless you are in a highly hotel-dense zone (e.g. The Strip - North in Las Vegas, Magnificent Mile Chicago, Times Square New York, etc.), you can usually figure out what hotel you are looking at based on the amenities and TripAdvisor rating by leveraging sites like betterbidding.com

Priceline: very rarely is there only one hotel that you could possibly be bidding for. In my Hyatt example above, I knew it was the only 4* in the zone so I knew I was bidding just for the Hyatt and could use my Platinum benefits there.

I have only had one instance in 15+ Priceline hotel bookings at chains where I have status where my hotel status was not honored. I get all the perks and still get points on any dining spend.

Hotwire is great if you don't have time. If you have a little time, Priceline offers bigger savings and also more thrills.