Qantas Frequent Flyer - Is it just me? or are Qantas FF miles worthless?

I just credited some miles from a LAN flight to my QFF account and noticed my miles have steadily built up, so i checked some award flights and was completely shocked by the sky high amount of mileage needed, and the huge fuel surcharges?

I checked mainly SYD-NYC/LAX/SFO etc..
Is there ANYWHERE that it would make more sense to use QFF miles then another company? Or is Qantas just a really bad FF program?

The only benefit i see for Qantas is the fact that they allow more availability for their FF members, wich is a plus for us aussie's.
could that be the only good thing about their program? :confused:

I personally can't seem to find any good value in Qantas's offerings. specifically when comparing to BA/AA/LAN..

Your conclusions are right. Very few places where the QF programme offers much value these days.

Best as a frequent shopper rather than flyer programme.

Your conclusions are right. Very few places where the QF programme offers much value these days.

Best as a frequent shopper rather than flyer programme.

Very true. Only good thing is that it's not too difficult to attain WP (One World Emerald) which is very handy.

Quite a few Australian One World flyers I know (myself included) credit flights to QF until they hit WP then credit towards AA purely for the better award options.

...I checked mainly SYD-NYC/LAX/SFO etc..
Is there ANYWHERE that it would make more sense to use QFF miles then another company? Or is Qantas just a really bad FF program?...I personally can't seem to find any good value in Qantas's offerings. specifically when comparing to BA/AA/LAN..For some awards QFF is cheaper than AAdvantage or any other OW program. Admittedly these are niche cases, but they do exist! The rule of thumb is that AA earn/burn is double QFF.

Remember that QFF is a heavily tiered system, so routes that are just under a tier level are cheap relatively. Short routes are the best deals, and on QF domestic you are 100% guaranteed award availability on most routes/dates (far better availabiity than on BA or AA); that's because some QF award types, such as JASA, are not redeemable using AA/BA/etc. miles, and also because some inventory is reserved for WP and maybe down to silver.

QFF is worst at the long routes -- which is what you've been checking. But even then, you can get QFF awards SYD-JFK when you have zero Aadvantage availability, even as an EXP, on the same flight/date ... I've run into that many times. So it is a bit like that old joke: "I can sell it to you for half price, but there is no inventory". Personally I accumulate both AA and QFF miles, for this reason, and don't think QFF is a bad program at all. Dozens of other airlines have worse FF programs.

For some awards QFF is cheaper than AAdvantage or any other OW program. Admittedly these are niche cases, but they do exist!

Care to name one?

There's a few were QF beats AA, but I've yet to find any where they are cheapest of any of the OW carriers.

I only use Qantas points for international upgrades and points + pay.

Yes QF with its protected domestic base has perhaps the worst program of the major airlines, with redemption rates typically double those of AA and plenty of fees and fuel charges. Upgrades are pretty hopeless too, you can't use points to reserve an upgrade for an international flight, upgrades are standby-only and cost as many miles as an AA redemption anyway.

So, what to do with the points?
a) Domestic upgrades within Australia, these have improved a lot this year as you can now reserve an upgrade on any fare class whenever an award seat is avaliable, no need to pay double to enter the upgrade lottery like before.

b) Short-haul international business, awards are strictly on distance so some routes are just below the 3600 mile cut-off, like BOS-LHR, JFK-LHR or PER-SIN in J for 50k points each way. Also there's a reasonable 8000 point award for Y class up to 600 miles, handy for expensive short routes but watch for fuel surcharges.

c) Family transfers - QF's program allows you to transfer points online, up to all your points, to a "family member" once a year. There seems to be no validation of the relationship you key in.

I only use Qantas points for international upgrades and points + pay.

I only use them for points + pay, and only on domestic flights.

I'm tired of trying to e.g. book a fare to BKK on the Qantas website, and the only option it will give me is SYD-MEL-SIN-BKK on Deathstar/Deathstar Asia. Thai instantly got my business in that situation.

I only use Qantas points for international upgrades and points + pay.

wow just checked the prices on upgrades.. pretty horrendous too, but as Qantas flights are usually of the longest flights around, and 14hrs+ and having experienced the terrific Qantas business service, i can admit that i would not feel too bad upgrading using those points.

its just painfull tho to know that on AA you could get so much more for it...
right now i see tons of AA availability for 37.5k each way.. on AA and qantas.
although i dont see any availability for business or first for all of july/august and september?...

[mod hat] I have merged the two threads about the same topic [/mod hat]

When talking about the value of QFF compared to other programs, don't forget how easy it can be to get points. 3/2/1.5/1 points per $ spent for credit cards, gigantic sing up bonuses, Everyday rewards cards etc.
It is much easier to accumulate QFF points in Australia than it is to get AA miles in the US from non-flying activities.

[mod hat] I have merged the two threads about the same topic [/mod hat]

When talking about the value of QFF compared to other programs, don't forget how easy it can be to get points. 3/2/1.5/1 points per $ spent for credit cards, gigantic sing up bonuses, Everyday rewards cards etc.
It is much easier to accumulate QFF points in Australia than it is to get AA miles in the US from non-flying activities.

Yep - those sing up bonuses are great;)

As for burning, IIRC QFF points are good value when redeeming AA domestic flights

[mod hat]

When talking about the value of QFF compared to other programs, don't forget how easy it can be to get points. 3/2/1.5/1 points per $ spent for credit cards, gigantic sing up bonuses, Everyday rewards cards etc.
It is much easier to accumulate QFF points in Australia than it is to get AA miles in the US from non-flying activities.

It is supposed to be a frequent flyer programme rather than a credit card scheme

Given the generalish value of 2x value of AA miles to QF miles I wouldn't say that it is much easier. Have a SPG US Amex card and would earn 1.25 miles per USD ( 1 pt per $ spent to SPG and then 25% bonus when transferring in blocks of 20k ) . With an effective value ( generally) of 2x that would equate to 2.5 per $ when being compared against value to QFF

Also, there are often very significant sign up bonuses offered in the US ( hve seen 80k / 100k sign ups ) which are far ahead of anything offered in Australia

Even using an AU AMEX, a transfer to AA comes out similar overall value to transfer to QFF with 1 QF point per amex point when transferred direct to QF and 0.625 AA point per amex point when transferred via SPG

All fair points. All I was trying to say is that getting QFF points is very easy and personally I find it easier in Australia to get QFF points than AA miles in the US but maybe I need to look harder.

can you give an example of some of these "easy" Qantas credit card offers? haven't seemed to be able to beat the CITI 50k AA visa 50k AA amex 50k AA business visa?

it looks like Qantas has really neglected their FrequentFlyer program...

All fair points. All I was trying to say is that getting QFF points is very easy and personally I find it easier in Australia to get QFF points than AA miles in the US but maybe I need to look harder.

There isn't, from what I can see, a great deal more options in AU for QFF vs US for AA though have come across a lot more great bonus offers.

On top of that, AA miles purchases are good value for topping up.

e,g, fly 40k miles as OW Sapphire in scheme status in economy
gives 80k AA miles ( 40k * 2)
gives 70k QF miles ( 40k * 1.75)

Requirement for a one way flight to Euope in 1st class
AA 80k miles
QF 192k miles plus fines

Less miles earned and more points needed

If OW Emerald in QF , then can match earning of an OW Sapphire in AA

Using credit cards
at 1.25 miles per $ using US SPG AMEX : requires USD64,000 spend
at 1.5 miles per $ using AU Platinum AMEX : requires AUD128,000 spend


Comparing part flying and part credit. r/t F award 160k vs 384k

Taking flying as above

80k AA miles earned from flying plus need USD64,000 spend
70k QF miles earned , leaving 314k points needed => AUD209,000 spend needed

I wouldnt say that QF's other earning on things like cards work out that well given the redemption costs and AA still seems to come out well ahead

There are a few oddities where QF comes out decently for awards against AA but these are few

There are a few oddities where QF comes out decently for awards against AA but these are few

care to name any?

care to name any?

a couple are

LHR-TIP ( short flight , but is Europe - Africa using AA miles )
v short flights in economy class within USA

Dave

i found another one..
JFK-YUL its 8000 each way. just dont know how much fee's they'd add, as well cant seem to find any availability this year.. ROFL!

You would find the +++ comes to around USD5 ...

Well I am with Aadvantage and LTP.Wife is with QFF and WP-that means as we basically do the same travel-in J-it is easier to reach OWE with QFF.
Upgrades on QFF can be reasonable so a good use of her QFF points.
Third the ability to get miles and SCs on QFF any seat awards is certainly better than Aadvantage.
And 4th-getting to QF gold or plat means entry into QPs/J lounges as well as ACs/flagship lounge.
5th-ability to transfer miles for free with QFF
So definitely some positives for QFF v Aadvantage

Well I am with Aadvantage and LTP.Wife is with QFF and WP-that means as we basically do the same travel-in J-it is easier to reach OWE with QFF.
Upgrades on QFF can be reasonable so a good use of her QFF points.
Third the ability to get miles and SCs on QFF any seat awards is certainly better than Aadvantage.
And 4th-getting to QF gold or plat means entry into QPs/J lounges as well as ACs/flagship lounge.
5th-ability to transfer miles for free with QFF
So definitely some positives for QFF v Aadvantage

Unless doing full economy to business or business to 1st , I would not say that QFF upgrade awards are reasonable cost. Upgrades from discount economy are, imo, v expensive . e.g. 92k to upgrade LHR-SYD vs 128k for a business award ( 72% of the cost of an outfight award ). If doing a business to 1st upgrade, then I agree that they are pretty reasonably priced at 60k and comparable to AA for a similar distance

AA anyseat awards are not ridiculously priced unlike QF ones; 2x miles for an anyseat award as long as appropriate of Y,J or F is available... no 1,000,000 costs ever quoted by AA; it can be possible to receive credit for anyseat AA awards if credited to a different scheme

Lounge access is indeed a benefit of QFF

Transferring miles for free may indeed be a benefit though personally haven't had much use for it

AA also permits awards to be booked for anyone rather than just family

AA also provides 8 Systemwide upgrades at top tier status which is quite a bonus


This week however, US Airways is my favourite; just purchased 150k miles for about $3700 and got a 1st class return from LHR-SYD for trip back to Oz :)

Our upgrades are from J-F on QF.
Any seat awards are not all ridiculously priced.Have recently scored 2 JASAs SYD-JNB at about 10% above the classic award points.Then 2 FASAs at the J classic points price JNB-SYD.Those I regard as good value.
And we also bought our US miles last week.

Not really. It depends on how you look at it. I managed to book two RTW first tickets using miles for this year (of course, booked 12 months in advance). Yes, it cost 900,000 odd points, but then I wouldn't have gotten those points in the first place if I'd used AA as probably 75% were from credit card spend.

Not really. It depends on how you look at it. I managed to book two RTW first tickets using miles for this year (of course, booked 12 months in advance). Yes, it cost 900,000 odd points, but then I wouldn't have gotten those points in the first place if I'd used AA as probably 75% were from credit card spend.
nice spend!!!!!!!!!!!

The best use of QFFFP I have found is for some (not all) domestic business class QF Any Seat award. There are occasionally stupidly cheap ones around and you get some points back as you earn points and SCs (not that SCs matter to me) on them.

The best use of QFFFP I have found is for some (not all) domestic business class QF Any Seat award. There are occasionally stupidly cheap ones around and you get some points back as you earn points and SCs (not that SCs matter to me) on them.

now that sounds nice...

The best use of QFFFP I have found is for some (not all) domestic business class QF Any Seat award. There are occasionally stupidly cheap ones around and you get some points back as you earn points and SCs (not that SCs matter to me) on them.

now that sounds nice...


Any seat awards are absolutely wonderful. I like how I can, with a bit of searching get a one way F seat from SYD-LAX (or vice versa) for 144,000 QFF points and earn points and SCs towards requalification.

Have already booked by JASA for MEL-LAX-JFK return for next year. ^

I like how I can, with a bit of searching get a one way F seat from SYD-LAX (or vice versa) for 144,000 QFF points and earn points and SCs towards requalification.

^

I was just looking at any seat rewards for MEL-FRA (F class) and every day was roughly 692,000 points each way. Of course I was looking at the next couple of months so that may have something to do with it, but how did you find an F seat for 144,000???

can you give an example of some of these "easy" Qantas credit card offers? haven't seemed to be able to beat the CITI 50k AA visa 50k AA amex 50k AA business visa?

it looks like Qantas has really neglected their FrequentFlyer program...

In the past 12 months I have signed up for:

Citibank Platinum (now closed) $125 annual fee (1/2 price) > 60,000 QFF Points
Deathstar Mastercard $0 annual fee (first year) > 30,000 QFF Points

(...and a Virgin Flyer CC with 50,000 Velocity Points).

Speaking of Velocity...it can offer much better value than QFF...e.g. EY flights to Europe with no fuel fines.

... Of course I was looking at the next couple of months so that may have something to do with it, but how did you find an F seat for 144,000???Patience helps.

I had a fully refundable Business any seat award for MEL-LAX booked at 11½ months out with an Expertflyer alert for P class.

That came up (luckily I guess) 8 months out and was able to book FASA online and cancel the JASA.

Sorry to pile onto this existing thread, but since there was a lot of evaluation of Credit cards and their rewards from an Australia perspective, figured i'd post here.

Was wondering which would be a good Credit card to apply/ sign up for ? A family member has recently moved there and would make sense to route their spending via the card, so that there's some flight/ hotel benefit at the end of it..

In terms of trips, they would probably be looking at redeeming for flights to Asia for the most part and they are not Carrier/ Alliance specific at the moment atleast...

Thanks in advance..

Was wondering which would be a good Credit card to apply/ sign up for ? A family member has recently moved there and would make sense to route their spending via the card, so that there's some flight/ hotel benefit at the end of it..

In terms of trips, they would probably be looking at redeeming for flights to Asia for the most part and they are not Carrier/ Alliance specific at the moment atleast...Emirates Citibank card is pretty good as it includes perks such as free limo transfer to an EK flight once a year as well as good points earn/burn ratio, lounge access, etc. But EK only fly direct to SIN or KUL from Oz :)

Emirates Citibank card is pretty good as it includes perks such as free limo transfer to an EK flight once a year as well as good points earn/burn ratio, lounge access, etc. But EK only fly direct to SIN or KUL from Oz

and Bangkok, Dubai, Auckland and Christchurch

Emirates Citibank card is pretty good as it includes perks such as free limo transfer to an EK flight once a year as well as good points earn/burn ratio, lounge access, etc. But EK only fly direct to SIN or KUL from Oz :)

Does a certain amount of spends on the Emirates card help in climbing to the next tier in the EK Skywards program or is moving to the next tier purely a flight count/ miles based calculation?

QFF is a rort & I've given up trying to use their points for flight redemptions. I only fly biz class these days & it's nigh on impossible to get international redemptions with QF in biz class in any reasonable timeframe... if at all.

With other airlines I fly I can request & get biz class redemptions within a few weeks notice - the way it used to be with Qantas 10+ years ago.

QF is a disaster. Uncompetitive internationally with few routes, expensive prices, old aircraft, poor seating, surly checkin staff & overpaid flight staff. CX, SQ & the Middle East carriers are eating QF alive. And imagine scoring lower than Garuda.

For more than 5 years now I've been flying more than 100 flights internationally in biz class per annum which could have been on QF.

I've cashed out my several million QFF points for gift cards & am making no effort to retain platinum.

If the govt doesn't bail out QF they'll face the same fate as the ALP - irrelevance.

QFF is a rort & I've given up trying to use their points for flight redemptions. I only fly biz class these days & it's nigh on impossible to get international redemptions with QF in biz class in any reasonable timeframe... if at all.

Can you use QFFFP on the partners, like CX?

(But getting J award on CX is tough too http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/cathay-pacific-asia-miles/1202755-premium-cx-awards-hk-australia.html )

Perhaps, but that's another reason not to fly QF as CX Diamonds do seem to have it much better with CX than QFF Platinums do with QF...better to fly CX & credit to AsiaMiles. Having said that I don't think that AsiaMiles is a great FF program.

Im just amazed the amount of people who use QF in pref of other programs.

I have a QF account - and build up miles to use short haul - Mainly intra europe on BA.

I find their long haul availability and amount of points needed crazy!

e.g. Syd to EUR vv used to be 128K miles on QF
on SQ it was 127K miles in Business - with good availability and the online discount.

It's now about 161K points to Europe in Biz class. Still much better value and what seems to be much better availability.

I now also use US airways - costs me 150K to fly to Europe First class on *A partners.

Not having a go at Qantas - just sharing my frustrations with them as a FF program.

Im just amazed the amount of people who use QF in pref of other programs.

For Domestic, there isn't much alternative, i.e., Virgin.


I find their long haul availability and amount of points needed crazy!

+1

1) You often hear QF FF members talk about trying to snag F and J tickets ~350 days out. Sorry, but l'm not in a position to book flights that far out.
2) When l've flown long haul Y, had offers from QF to upgrade from Y -> J, for, wait for it, 96k. Outright J isn't too much more in the first place (around 128k)

I now also use US airways - costs me 150K to fly to Europe First class on *A partners.

+1
Did SYD-Europe return, in F for around a QF Y+ fare. No brainer.

So in summary, l think that QF burn rates for long haul F/J are astronomical and availability at short notice (<6 months), is limited. Oh, plus the taxes.

+1
Did SYD-Europe return, in F for around a QF Y+ fare. No brainer.

So in summary, l think that QF burn rates for long haul F/J are astronomical and availability at short notice (<6 months), is limited. Oh, plus the taxes.

Was that using US? I bought the 50% bonus miles a couple of times and flew to Europe in F class for around $2200 incl taxes of $160 - their taxes are super low too!

Was that using US? I bought the 50% bonus miles a couple of times and flew to Europe in F class for around $2200 incl taxes of $160 - their taxes are super low too!

160k miles. TG F/LH J
I think it worked out to around ~$2600, with taxes.

Was that using US? I bought the 50% bonus miles a couple of times and flew to Europe in F class for around $2200 incl taxes of $160 - their taxes are super low too!

That's because their taxes ARE taxes! Not airline charges dressed up as 'taxes'.

160k miles. TG F/LH J
I think it worked out to around ~$2600, with taxes.

But I was meaning was that buying miles via US air? Or can you buy miles in TG's program too?

2) When l've flown long haul Y, had offers from QF to upgrade from Y -> J, for, wait for it, 96k. Outright J isn't too much more in the first place (around 128k)


It's not always as bad as it sounds.

I recently upgraded discount Y to J on a one-way ABZ-LHR-MEL. It would've cost I think 128k + 8k for the domestic one class service on BA (but with lounge access at ABZ as a connecting J pax) - the connection added £5 to the fare.

The base fare was £304 - the remaining £340 was taxes and QF fuel fines that I would've paid on a redemption anyway. If I'd redeemed for a straight up J award I would paid an extra £90ish in premium APD...QF didn't charge it for the upgrade.

Of course I earned 11000 miles as a bronze. So make the net cost in miles 85k.

So I spent about £210 to save about 52-3k miles the way I work it out. I value 50k miles at more than that.

But I was meaning was that buying miles via US air? Or can you buy miles in TG's program too?

Sorry. All miles were purchased through the US Airways Dividend miles program.
I purchased 50k with a 50k bonus (in January) and then another 30k with 30k bonus when the last offer was on. Taxes were ~$230 ALL UP.

It's not always as bad as it sounds.

I recently upgraded discount Y to J on a one-way ABZ-LHR-MEL. It would've cost I think 128k + 8k for the domestic one class service on BA (but with lounge access at ABZ as a connecting J pax) - the connection added £5 to the fare.

The base fare was £304 - the remaining £340 was taxes and QF fuel fines that I would've paid on a redemption anyway. If I'd redeemed for a straight up J award I would paid an extra £90ish in premium APD...QF didn't charge it for the upgrade.

Of course I earned 11000 miles as a bronze. So make the net cost in miles 85k.

So I spent about £210 to save about 52-3k miles the way I work it out. I value 50k miles at more than that.

Yes, l agree that each and every FFP really needs to be looked at on a case-by-case basis, it certainly isn't a 1 size fits all.

Last night, l searched and picked up a SYD-PER return in Y, fly next week for 36k (Classic Award) and $77 taxes. Availability was wide open, so it's not all bad.

Sorry. All miles were purchased through the US Airways Dividend miles program.
I purchased 50k with a 50k bonus (in January) and then another 30k with 30k bonus when the last offer was on. Taxes were ~$230 ALL UP.

Nice. I did that too.

And this time round it cost even less as it was 150k points to redeem in First. Then I made an amendment, and they charged me the $150 free, and then told me the ticket would cost 120K points total - even though all was in F class. The original ticket was 4 x Longhaul sectors in F class. The amended one was 4 longhauls in F class and 2 intra euro sectors in J added on. Crazy, but I didnt complain :)

Yes, l agree that each and every FFP really needs to be looked at on a case-by-case basis, it certainly isn't a 1 size fits all.

Last night, l searched and picked up a SYD-PER return in Y, fly next week for 36k (Classic Award) and $77 taxes. Availability was wide open, so it's not all bad.

still a lot of points compared to using AA points at 20k plus $25.39 ( and still more than the 35k plus $25.39 for business class using AA points) and more than Asia miles of 30k

still a lot of points compared to using AA points at 20k plus $25.39 ( and still more than the 35k plus $25.39 for business class using AA points) and more than Asia miles of 30k

I did not know what. Thanks Dave. I guess as l travel mainly on Red eDeals, most of them don't earn in the AA program, otherwise l would have made the switch over a long time ago.

AA looks much better in that example (and many more l suspect).

still a lot of points compared to using AA points at 20k plus $25.39 ( and still more than the 35k plus $25.39 for business class using AA points) and more than Asia miles of 30k

Or avios at 20K + less than £20.

AA looks much better in that example (and many more l suspect).

Here are a few more AA examples in J or F I have done in the last couple of years :)

- J one way SIN-HKG-JFK (on CX) for 55k
- J one way SYD-LAX-JFK (on QF/AA) for 62.5k
- F one way JFK-NRT-SIN (on AA/JL) for 67.5k

The QF equivalents would typically be double that. I basically use QFF only to credit the Red E-deal fares to and other things which can't be credited anywhere else (Woolworths, QF Dining).

...

Totally OT but I love your screen name. Yeah baby! :cool:

From today's OZ. a step in the right direction.
http://m.theaustralian.com.au/business/aviation/qantas-makes-upgrade-easier-for-frequent-flyers/story-e6frg95x-1226428879345

Qantas makes upgrade easier for frequent flyers
Steve Creedy
July 18, 2012 10:45AM
QANTAS will make it easier for its 8.6 million frequent flyers to get upgrades after a successful trial on international flights aimed at countering frustrations with its seating system.
The changes mean that frequent-flyer members can now opt to be eligible for an international upgrade at the airport and will be notified either at check-in or at the departure gate. They will also be able to register for an upgrade for part of a flight, rather than for the whole journey.
Domestic passengers will no longer have to return to the airline's website to try again if an upgrade was previously unavailable - they may now opt to let the system automatically upgrade them when a seat becomes available.
Qantas said the new system gives frequently flyers a greater chance of being upgraded.
Lesley Grant, CEO of Qantas Loyalty, said: "We made the decision to invest in the technology following feedback from our members, who told us it is a source of frustration when their upgrade request is denied, only to find there are empty seats on the aircraft when they boarded, due to booked passengers 'no-showing' or missing connections."
The move comes as Qantas today launches a new online accommodation website, hooroo.com, aimed at harnessing social media to sell rooms.
Qantas also runs the booking facilities on qantas.com and jetstar.com but wants to tap into the majority-market, where people book hotel accommodation that is not associated with flights.

Sorry to spruik, but there's a bit more to it than this – see http://www.ausbt.com.au/qantas-frequent-flyers-now-get-last-minute-upgrades, such as that right now the at-the-gate upgrades are only available for solo travellers on a single ticket (not 2 or more on the same ticket).

Also, you have to 'opt in' for the extended upgrade window when requesting an upgrade, or you'll face the same upgrade cutoff (eg T-5 for international) as before.

[Declaration: I'm the writer of the story linked above and editor of AusBT, but I'm sharing this extra info so that FT readers can be a little better informed about something which was not explained in the Qantas press release that most media have picked up and run verbatim]

They will also be able to register for an upgrade for part of a flight, rather than for the whole journey.

Is it just me or could the writer have misunderstood the process?:confused: I am sure QF will not allow a passenger to upgrade to Business for a part of the flight eg. to sleep in the Skybed and then head back down for breakfast.;) Of cousre being QF you would still be charged the full upgrade cost:eek:

Blackcloud: that line in The Australian article refers to flights which have two legs, such as Sydney-Singapore-London – meaning that you could for example use points to upgrade to business only on the Singapore-London flight (as that's longer, overnight and sees you reach LHR around "too early o'clock") while staying in economy for Sydney-Singapore.

I understand what they were referring to but I feel that it was poorly written.
It is interesting that QF is considering doing this type of upgrade as they will not allow mixed class revenue bookings but now will allow points upgrades by sector?:confused:
Personally with all the transfers to partner airlines and codeshares I would hope that QF had an arrangement where you could use QFF points to upgrade on those flights.

I understand what they were referring to but I feel that it was poorly written.
Yes, it's more that for sure than the writer not understanding it - Steve Creedy is one of Australia's leading aviation writers, but adding a few extra words to explain this is one half on a two-leg trip such as Sydney-Singapore-London would have provided far more clarity for readers...

Just dropped by this thread because I saw an offer on Coupon Connection to trade AA for QF miles at 1:1. I think everyone has convinced me that is a bad idea. :D
I have a QF account - and build up miles to use short haul - Mainly intra europe on BA.I really like the combination of a zone-based system (like AA) combined with a distance-based system (like BA or QF) I think it does a good job of addressing the shortfalls of both programs.

I did want to let you know that QF wins hands down for the easiest/friendliest award search tools in OneWorld!

Care to name one?

There's a few where QF beats AA, but I've yet to find any where they are cheapest of any of the OW carriers.
The only thing I could come up with is short-haul between non-hub cities. For example, HOU-DFW-SAT one-way would be 9000 on Avios and 12.5k on AA, but only 8000 on QF. Or you could drive it in less than 3 hours. ;)

wow the above news sounds gr8!!

i have a question tho,
i am gonna be taking some flights soon and i wanted to know where to credit them to get status?
i am looking more for status then where to put the miles,..
they are on LAN in Y class - so they should earn Full mileage and status on regular one world.

AEP IGR 652 miles
IGR AEP 652 mi
AEP MDZ 609 mi
MDZ SCL 122 mi
SCL BUE 713 mi
BUE USH 1476 mi
USH BUE 1476 mi
BUE-SCL 713 m (j class)
SCL-SYD 7060 mi
SYD-AKL 1345 mi
AKL-SCL 6011 mi
SCL-BUE 713 (j class)
BUE SCL 713 mi
SCL JFK 5097 mi

Total 27364 mi

any suggestions?
TIA

...gonna be taking some flights soon and i wanted to know where to credit them to get status?
i am looking more for status then where to put the miles,..
they are on LAN in Y class - so they should earn Full mileage and status on regular one world.Full Y is very rare and expensive. Maybe discount economy in a range of fare buckets Y B H K M L V S N Q O G X E. Worth checking more in detail. Some are classed as earning full economy and others as discount economy or even nil.

i checked and it should be full Y.
unless there's discount economy in Y

assuming its full Y where's best to put it?

If it is full Y or B , then it will get you AA Gold status and most of the way to Platinum . 27532 miles flown will equate to 41028 qpoints of which 25k gets to Gold and then you need to get another 10k to attain Platinum

You will also be earning full miles plus 25% bonus once platinum so approx 30,710 spending miles on AA

I would suggest that this will be a good place to credit

If you can do SCL-JFK on the AA flight number, this would be a good starting candidate to get close to Platinum using the Platinum challenge, so depending on what other travel u may have on AA once in USA may be easy to get to Platinum

If it is full Y or B , then it will get you AA Gold status and most of the way to Platinum . 27532 miles flown will equate to 41028 qpoints of which 25k gets to Gold and then you need to get another 10k to attain Platinum

You will also be earning full miles plus 25% bonus once platinum so approx 30,710 spending miles on AA

I would suggest that this will be a good place to credit

If you can do SCL-JFK on the AA flight number, this would be a good starting candidate to get close to Platinum using the Platinum challenge, so depending on what other travel u may have on AA once in USA may be easy to get to Platinum

you are a legend mate!
AA it is.

Update:

You may well be able to complete the platinum challenge if some of your travel is on Qantas and you can do AA codeshares to NY

Looks like the challenge rules have been modified again to allow travel on other carriers

See http://www.travelingbetter.com/forums/showpost.php?p=38359&postcount=111


This would give you AA Platinum / OW Sapphire quite nicely as well as decent points earning

Dave

Perhaps I should start a new thread, but, related to the topic title, I just discovered that some short-distance awards that were available on AS (Alaska Airlines), now can't be ticketed using the online booking tool. That is to say, you'll have to use additional points to have these award ticketed through the phone, so you will miss out on what could have been a decent redemption option.
For example, try booking an award between EUG and SEA, and it errors out. There are many such AS airports, which were recently introduced in the booking engine and gave results until at least a couple of months ago, and which now don't work at all anymore.
Does the fact that these destination appear in the online booking engine give you a right to request a waiver of the additional points if you are forced to call to ticket these awards?

Perhaps I should start a new thread, but, related to the topic title, I just discovered that some short-distance awards that were available on AS (Alaska Airlines), now can't be ticketed using the online booking tool. That is to say, you'll have to use additional points to have these award ticketed through the phone, so you will miss out on what could have been a decent redemption option.
For example, try booking an award between EUG and SEA, and it errors out. There are many such AS airports, which were recently introduced in the booking engine and gave results until at least a couple of months ago, and which now don't work at all anymore.
Does the fact that these destination appear in the online booking engine give you a right to request a waiver of the additional points if you are forced to call to ticket these awards?

i can definetly confirm that this is so with british airways but not sure about qantas.
personally tho, the wait times for qantas customer service is one of the most annoying things about qantas's airline.. i dread calling qantas!.. then add a booking fee ...

i can definetly confirm that this is so with british airways but not sure about qantas.
personally tho, the wait times for qantas customer service is one of the most annoying things about qantas's airline.. i dread calling qantas!.. then add a booking fee ...

BA never allowed online bookings for AS flights. However, QF allowed it not as long as three months ago. In fact, some AS itineraries can still be booked online. It appears that these are just cites connected by mainline flights, though. I just don't understand why they did away with the award-booking capability for airports that are connected by turboprop (and yet they still have them all listed online).

i can definetly confirm that this is so with british airways but not sure about qantas.
personally tho, the wait times for qantas customer service is one of the most annoying things about qantas's airline.. i dread calling qantas!.. then add a booking fee ...

I've never waited more than 5 minutes when calling QF.

I've never waited more than 5 minutes when calling QF.

calling from australia i've been on hold for reservations for HOURS!!!

I've never waited more than 5 minutes when calling QF.

Perhaps this is status related? Their Facebook wall is constantly full of posts reporting excessive wait times (many 1 hr+)...which seem to be acknowledged by the social media people who are constantly blaming higher than normal call volume.

I've never waited more than 5 minutes when calling QF.
Less than 1 minute IME. Yes, its prioritised on status after you input your FF #.

Not long ago I got an email from qantas about spending 60,000 points plus almost $500 taxes for SYD - BKK return in Y.

Hmm I just booked 2 QANTAS flights SYD - BKK return in Y for $620 & $650 lol

I'm not a biz class person as I can't afford it ( I have more than 10 holidays a year) but usually use points for biz class or PE. It's not too bad on QF I think when booking any seat awards (need to work hard finding the deals) since I get points and status credits back. I'm self employed and very flexible with dates so no issue.

Perhaps this is status related? Their Facebook wall is constantly full of posts reporting excessive wait times (many 1 hr+)...which seem to be acknowledged by the social media people who are constantly blaming higher than normal call volume.

lol,.. the irony in their claim.. "for the past 5yrs we have been experiancing higher than normal call volume"...."we are sincerely sorry for the wait, and appreciate your patience"....

QANTAS! get some bloody phone agents!!!

lol,.. the irony in their claim.. "for the past 5yrs we have been experiancing higher than normal call volume"...."we are sincerely sorry for the wait, and appreciate your patience"....

QANTAS! get some bloody phone agents!!!

As long as they are not Asian based where it is often difficult to understand them and for them to understand us. JQ and others you know what I mean.:mad:

wow the above news sounds gr8!!

i have a question tho,
i am gonna be taking some flights soon and i wanted to know where to credit them to get status?
i am looking more for status then where to put the miles,..
they are on LAN in Y class - so they should earn Full mileage and status on regular one world.

AEP IGR 652 miles
IGR AEP 652 mi
AEP MDZ 609 mi
MDZ SCL 122 mi
SCL BUE 713 mi
BUE USH 1476 mi
USH BUE 1476 mi
BUE-SCL 713 m (j class)
SCL-SYD 7060 mi
SYD-AKL 1345 mi
AKL-SCL 6011 mi
SCL-BUE 713 (j class)
BUE SCL 713 mi
SCL JFK 5097 mi

Total 27364 mi

any suggestions?
TIA

:D lol... :D
ok here's the low down.
i had accidentally while searching originally for these fares by either paying or buying kms, experianced a "mistake" in the website where it priced out the ticket to 0$ + tax
this lasted a few hours and i couldnt replicate it intentionally kinda just fluked it, after about 6hrs i had tickets confirmed and with ticket numbers.
so i went ahead and booked a few tickets...
LAN went ahead and confirmed and even put a hold on the money on my credit card. they sent me a ticket number and an agent sent me an email that my flight was confirmed and booked. this was 7 days ago.today they show as "suspended" and some "voided" i called lan and they told me to come in person to verify my identity and pay in cash or crdit at the sales office. i did. they wouldnt accept cash payment or any payment. they said i should go to a lan store the next day (this was at an airport) as only their "internal department" could fix it and they were not working on sunday. i called up and it seems their "internal department" was working sunday. they requested a picture of my passport and my credit card. i sent it. they then said they wouldn't honor it. they said my only choice was to book another flight and write a complaint.

any suggestions?
opinions?
is lan required to honor this?
the main let down is that they cancelled it a day before my flight leaving me completely inconvenienced.(although i do have a somewhat backup plan.)
whats the legal status here? is this much different from the united deal?

I don't know what rights you have under Chilean law.

But if under Australian law, I would imagine Hartog v Colin & Shields applies, and LAN is not required to honour the tix Latimer Australian Business Law (http://books.google.com.hk/books?id=FsGY43LveKoC&pg=PT825&lpg=PT825&dq=Hartog+v+Colin+%26+Shields+apply+in+australia&source=bl&ots=CMAJ6BYt19&sig=dd0-lGC3q12UyYp95bKXKMqxIdM&hl=zh-TW&sa=X&ei=wYwVUPe6COy0iQeZ0oHIDw&ved=0CFcQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=Hartog%20v%20Colin%20&f=false)

The United case is pursued under a US law that prohibits prevents post-purchase price increases http://airconsumer.dot.gov/rules/EAPP_2_FAQ_01-11-2012final.pdf#page=43 . I'm not sure whether Australia has similar rules, and even if there were, is a $0 fare (even if taxes paid) a fare at all.

In AU and UK for example, they do not have to honour obvious mistakes. No reasonable person would believe that the fare should have been zero

In AU and UK for example, they do not have to honour obvious mistakes. No reasonable person would believe that the fare should have been zero

I would be surprised if there were many places where it would be required to be honoured

it was obviously a price mistake there are some questions tho here, like, how long does the airline have before they have to honor it? 24hrs? a week? half way through my trip? there's gotta be some guidelines..
i'm not upset at losing the tickets as much as i am upset at finding out 24hrs before the flight. i did have a backup, but 24hrs before is really pushing it. they had 7 days. they also told me to come in to the airport.. i payed a taxi,.. there n back.. i don't know... i'm gonna write a complaint somewhere somehow just for fun to see what will happen.. in the meantime.. it's planning time for me.

At the gate as far as LAN is concerned.

ok is this worth it?

AEP-IGR 14k QANTAS +$4TAX
IGR-AEP >???? probably lan for 242 paying in peso's so they charge me 242x4.58/6.3 = $178 tax?..
AEP-MDZ 14K QANTAS +$4TAX
MDZ-AEP 14K QANTAS +$4TAX

I've never waited more than 5 minutes when calling QF.

calling from australia i've been on hold for reservations for HOURS!!!

Perhaps this is status related? Their Facebook wall is constantly full of posts reporting excessive wait times (many 1 hr+)...which seem to be acknowledged by the social media people who are constantly blaming higher than normal call volume.

Less than 1 minute IME. Yes, its prioritised on status after you input your FF #.

Interesting

Qantas passenger's 15-hour call wait (http://www.news.com.au/travel/news/qantas-passengers-15-hour-call-wait/story-e6frfq80-1226441843975)
QANTAS is investigating a passenger's extraordinary claim he waited on the phone for 15 hours trying to confirm a flight.

Andrew Kahn, visiting from the US, could have flown home in the time he purportedly languished on the line.

The marketing manager said he phoned Qantas at 7.22pm on Wednesday, finally giving up at 11.01am yesterday.

The call - on a mobile - lasted an astounding 15 hours, 40 minutes and one second.

Mr Kahn said he surfed the internet, briefly nodded off and even read a 200-page book while he waited.

Interesting

Qantas passenger's 15-hour call wait (http://www.news.com.au/travel/news/qantas-passengers-15-hour-call-wait/story-e6frfq80-1226441843975)

LMAO!!!! :)

Interesting

Qantas passenger's 15-hour call wait (http://www.news.com.au/travel/news/qantas-passengers-15-hour-call-wait/story-e6frfq80-1226441843975)

What mobile phone battery will last that long when on a call?

Dave

one which is plugged in to its charger.

ok is this worth it?

AEP-IGR 14k QANTAS +$4TAX
IGR-AEP >???? probably lan for 242 paying in peso's so they charge me 242x4.58/6.3 = $178 tax?..
AEP-MDZ 14K QANTAS +$4TAX
MDZ-AEP 14K QANTAS +$4TAX

Depends on how much the revenue tix are then... but Argentine domestic flights do tend to be on the expensive, side, so not a bad choice per se.

Same with intra-Alaska flights, those are where distance-based award charts can really come in handy.

Depends on how much the revenue tix are then... but Argentine domestic flights do tend to be on the expensive, side, so not a bad choice per se.

Same with intra-Alaska flights, those are where distance-based award charts can really come in handy.

i did qantas bue-igr and LAN km's for igr-bue-mdz-bue (total 20k) i bought the kms for 400.

so Lan finally got back to me from the customer relations department after i filed a DOT complaint. below is a quote

"With reference to your ticket 045-XXXXXXXXXX traveling from Buenos Aires to Santiago and Sydney on LA2429 AND LA807, please be advised that it has been voided due to the fare not being paid for; only the taxes have been paid."

as of now the taxes have charged to my credit card.
the question is LAN says that "i have not payed for the fare" only taxes.
but from doing a little research it seems more like, legally, they have entered a written contract i have both an email from an agent as well as the PDF of the ticket and transaction wich clearly has written the price of the ticket as 0.00USD. so that means that by them issuing the ticket and offering me transportation at 0$ if i have paid the tax wich is all they asked of me they must honor the ticket?

it seems that a purchase is not just for money, rather "a deed" or contract is considered a purchase.. so if they gave me this contract i have the right to fly?

they seem to say that i didnt "PAY" for a flight. but my argument is i don't need to "pay" for it, i just need the contract or "ticket" wich promises me the service of flying on their aircraft. so long as i fulfill all the stipulations - paying for the tax, etc.. they should be bound to this right? we both virtually "signed" a contract for my transportation on their airline, that is binding isn't it?

any ideas? comments?

I don't know Argentine law but, the ticket you buy is for the future service to be provided.

When you check-in and are issued the boarding pass, the contract to transport you to the destination on the boarding pass begins. Until then you have a ticket (voucher) which may be exchanged for a contract to transport at a future date.

This is an oversimplified explanation of the concept.

I don't know Argentine law but, the ticket you buy is for the future service to be provided.

When you check-in and are issued the boarding pass, the contract to transport you to the destination on the boarding pass begins. Until then you have a ticket (voucher) which may be exchanged for a contract to transport at a future date.

This is an oversimplified explanation of the concept.

any good sources to research this stuff? i want to know what my argument is well, so i can do it properly.

You would have to research the law of the country responsible together with any international obligations there may be (IATA) and hope they are in a language that you can read.

try WorldLII for a start.

Personally, I think you are on a hiding to nothing.

In many countries there is provision in selling which means that the seller does not have to honour a price which is obviously a mistake; Australia and UK , for example, definitely have these ; I would hope that Argentina has a similar legal provisions

A flight for which the fare quoted is zero has to be a mistake and cannot see that there is any likelihood of getting it honoured, nor see that there is any ethical obligation on their part

[mod hat] Just a friendly reminder to stay on topic: The value of QFF points. [/mod hat]