Air France Frequence Plus - Slight crispation after second try for landing on AF 1051

Today, when the plane was very close to land at CDG, the captain gave full power to the engines.

After 5 minutes, the captain gave us some information, but the speaker did not work properly, so we could not hear anything.

The chef de cabine announced "As just said the captain, we are going to land again in seven minutes".

Some passengers - mostly Danish people - started to complain about the lack of information.

When walking through the plane, the chef de cabin said to angry people that she cannot ask the captain what was going on "as the captain cannot be disturbed and has many important things to do right now", which made the passengers even more nervous.

We finally landed safely some minutes after, and were informed that the runway was not clear at the first attempt.

Touch-and-go (remise de gaz) is always a worrisome experience because one always wonders afterwards what happened until a new successful landing is completed. I hadn't had any for years and then experience multiple ones in a row, one time with two of them (on an AF LHR-CDG flight) and two with one a single occurrence each (on an SQ BKK-SIN flight and on an SN BRU-NCE flight). All three times, some passengers were explicitly panicking - indeed on the AF flight, my neighbour plainly ignored the crew orders and went to lock herself in the toilets till landing time (for a while I wondered if it would prevent us from landing altogether as this was of course a safety breach. I must admit that I was a bit surprised by the overall not-very-good ways of the captains to handle the incidents. The AF captain basically didn't say anything, neither did the SN pilot (purser though muttered in French near me: 'he's done us the full monty today' = 'ben il nous les aura toutes fait aujourd'hui!'). The SQ pilot explained it was windy and dangerous to land but he'd try again which didn't make people particularly reassured either. I think these things happen but it would be nice if pilots would give some thought beforehand not just on how they would handle the incident 'technically' but also how they would attempt to communicate with the cabin if it ever happened to them. After all, calm in the cabin is a full part of the flight safety environment.

I had to look up the word crispation (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/crispation).

Usually there is a lot going on upfront when there is a go-around regardless of the cause so they are likely busy with other things and it will be a case of aviate, navigate, communicate.

Once the gear is down, you forget talking to anybody in the cockpit until landing. This includes a go-around even if they raise the gear again. Sterile cockpit mode is a very good method for keeping the pilots focused on the job at hand. I learned at an early age in small aircraft, if you can see an airport, you do not talk to the pilot.

Less than 50% of the go-arounds I have been on in commercial aircraft have resulted in some form of explanation from the cockpit.

Reasons for go-arounds can be:
- Pilot is mis-aligned and lateral or horizontal parameters are out of tolerance, resulting in a go-around being declared (he goofed and is too far off course)
- Same as previous, but the cause was bad weather/winds
- Other traffic has strayed into the safe zone of the landing aircraft, resulting in ATC calling for a go-around
- Ground traffic (landing aircraft, inspection vehicle or other) has not cleared the runway in time and either the pilot or ATC has called for a go-around

The last one is one of the most prevalent.

I fully sympathise with the stress in the cockpit at that stage but I have always been in cases when pilots did manage to communicate. It would also be perfectly possible for airlines to have pursers make a standard announcement to the cabin to ensure people do not panick and these things happening occasionally. I don't know, it's for airlines to give some thought to how these things could be handled - the point is that while no1 priority is a safe landing, panick in the cabin is a danger in itself (someone like the woman I told about locking herself in the toilet could have been seriously injured) and silence in a case like this is anxiogene especially for non-frequent flyers.

At bmi there is a standard announcement and I'd be surprised that many do not have it. The SCA, upon his/her will informs the passengers:

Ladies and Gentlemen we have had to cancel our take-off/landing. Please remain seated with your seat belt fastened. The captain will speak to you soon and update you on the situation.

And then awaits information via the interphone from the commander.

At bmi there is a standard announcement and I'd be surprised that many do not have it. The SCA, upon his/her will informs the passengers:



And then awaits information via the interphone from the commander.

That's exactly the sort of thing I have in mind. I think it would help passengers feel this is not a dramatic situation.

FWIW - on a recent flight, LH didn't announce anything except ... well as you just noticed, we'll land a little later. ... :rolleyes:

I think some passengers have reacted badly because the microphone in the cockpit worked very badly (as it was simply impossible to hear anything).

A go-around can be very stressful depending on the position of the aurcraft and having to go from landing configuration to take off config, follow the missed approach route, talk to ATC, manage speeds and get back on route etc. . I agree it would be better if CC says an intermediate explanation until the flightdeck crew is on a stable altitude and navigation again.

Once the gear is down, you forget talking to anybody in the cockpit until landing. This includes a go-around even if they raise the gear again. Sterile cockpit mode is a very good method for keeping the pilots focused on the job at hand.

To be slightly technical: on most (all?) airlines "sterile mode" does not start when the gear is down but at 10'000 feet above-sea-level. That is when use of headphones is mandatory (prior to that pilots may chose to use loudspeakers and a hand-held microphone to communicate with ATC) and all communications in the cockpit are restricted to things related to flying the plane. That is then maintained until parked at the gate. (Funny anecdote: I was on the cockpit jumpseat on a flight to CDG one day. The copilot was very yound and inexperienced, he was taxiing the plane on the ground. At one point I could see how he was going to take the wrong turn - taxiway B, but he turned left instead of right - but I had to shut up as I was a mere "guest". Ground control picked this up immediately and with a lovely Parisian scolding "What are you doing??" told him to go the other way, but then afterwards was more conciliatory and said that indeed taxiway layout at CDG was quite complex. Indeed, designed by the same why-make-it-simple-if-it-can-be-complicated people that also designed the inside of the airport ;) But there we were for a sterile cockpit. I think I only would have said something if there was a plane coming the other way and neither he nor the Captain would have noticed)

And, yes, the workload after a missed approach is indeed quite high.

FAA has a 10.000ft sterile cockpit rule, while JAR leaves it up to the operator or even the pilot. I know pilots who employ intercept as the sterile point, when in VMC. Especially on flights <60min. However JAR does include taxi in the mandatory portion.

This is an old one, but your comment about about wrong way on taxiway reminded me of it:

During taxi, the crew of a US Air departure flight to Ft. Lauderdale, made a wrong turn and came nose to nose with a United 727. The irate ground controller (a female) lashed out at the US Air crew, screaming “US AIR 2771, WHERE ARE YOU GOING? I TOLD YOU TO TURN RIGHT ON “CHARLIE” TAXIWAY; YOU TURNED RIGHT ON “DELTA.” STOP RIGHT THERE. I KNOW IT’S DIFFICULT TO TELL THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN Cs AND Ds, BUT GET IT RIGHT!!!”

Continuing her lashing to the embarrassed crew, she was now shouting hysterically, “GOD, YOU’VE SCREWED EVERYTHING UP; IT’LL TAKE FOREVER TO SORT THIS OUT. YOU STAY RIGHT THERE AND DON’T MOVE UNTIL I TELL YOU TO. YOU CAN EXPECT PROGRESSIVE TAXI INSTRUCTIONS IN ABOUT A HALF HOUR, AND I WANT YOU TO GO EXACTLY WHERE I TELL YOU, WHEN I TELL YOU, AND HOW I TELL YOU! YOU GOT THAT, US AIR 2771??!!”

The humbled crew responded, “Yes, Ma’am.”

Naturally, the “Ground Control” frequency went terribly silent after the verbal bashing of US Air Flight 2771. No one wanted to engage the irate ground controller in her current state. Tension in every cockpit at LGA was running high. Shortly after the controller finished her heated admonishment of the US Air crew, an unknown pilot broke the silence and asked, “Wasn’t I married to you once???”

FAA has a 10.000ft sterile cockpit rule, while JAR leaves it up to the operator or even the pilot. I know pilots who employ intercept as the sterile point, when in VMC. Especially on flights <60min. However JAR does include taxi in the mandatory portion.

Interesting, thanks for that. I am not too familiar with too many carriers and how they do it. Guess the one that I usually do my cockpit rides with has it in its SOPs?


This is an old one, but your comment about about wrong way on taxiway reminded me of it:

During taxi, the crew of a US Air departure flight to Ft. Lauderdale, made a wrong turn and came nose to nose with a United 727. The irate ground controller (a female) lashed out at the US Air crew, screaming “US AIR 2771, WHERE ARE YOU GOING? I TOLD YOU TO TURN RIGHT ON “CHARLIE” TAXIWAY; YOU TURNED RIGHT ON “DELTA.” STOP RIGHT THERE. I KNOW IT’S DIFFICULT TO TELL THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN Cs AND Ds, BUT GET IT RIGHT!!!”

Continuing her lashing to the embarrassed crew, she was now shouting hysterically, “GOD, YOU’VE SCREWED EVERYTHING UP; IT’LL TAKE FOREVER TO SORT THIS OUT. YOU STAY RIGHT THERE AND DON’T MOVE UNTIL I TELL YOU TO. YOU CAN EXPECT PROGRESSIVE TAXI INSTRUCTIONS IN ABOUT A HALF HOUR, AND I WANT YOU TO GO EXACTLY WHERE I TELL YOU, WHEN I TELL YOU, AND HOW I TELL YOU! YOU GOT THAT, US AIR 2771??!!”

The humbled crew responded, “Yes, Ma’am.”

Naturally, the “Ground Control” frequency went terribly silent after the verbal bashing of US Air Flight 2771. No one wanted to engage the irate ground controller in her current state. Tension in every cockpit at LGA was running high. Shortly after the controller finished her heated admonishment of the US Air crew, an unknown pilot broke the silence and asked, “Wasn’t I married to you once???”

Fantastic :D:D