KLM Flying Dutchman - Exit row experience

I just had a very positive experience on a short inter-Europe flight with an exit row seat:

I (FBPE) do not normally choose exit row seats, preferring an aisle seat in the first row after C. On Friday, I had some OLCI check-in problems and couldn't select my seat before arriving at the airport. When I tried to select my seat, the first few rows were full, but the exit row (10) was complete empty, so I chose 10C.

When I boarded the plane, the FA was standing in row 10, keeping her hand on the overhead bin. When I asked, she said that she had reserved that bin for the people in the exit row.

After boarding was completed, I was still the only person in exit row, and I overheard that the FAs wanted to 'upgrade' two passengers with long legs. When they arrived, they were given seats 10D and 10F. However, both of them preferred the window seat. The FA awkwardly asked whether they could agree who wanted to sit where, and when asked about seat 10A, she said, pointing to me: "this passenger paid for his exit row seat, so he deserves more space than you".

Well done, KLM: both reserving luggage bin space for exit row passengers and recognizing that moving passengers into seats that other people have paid extra for is a sensitive matter.

Interesting that they upgraded people to emergency exit seats... I was told they weren't allowed to do this. (This was in a conversation I had with one of their FAs, just after they started charging GEs, when I found myself on a flight where the entire emergency exit row was empty. I wasn't after an upgrade, BTW, just commenting on the safety aspects of having no one sitting there)

Interesting that they upgraded people to emergency exit seats... I was told they weren't allowed to do this. (This was in a conversation I had with one of their FAs, just after they started charging GEs, when I found myself on a flight where the entire emergency exit row was empty. I wasn't after an upgrade, BTW, just commenting on the safety aspects of having no one sitting there)

I always thought it was supposed to be a safety hasard to have an exit row with noone seating in it as their would then be noone to take care of opening the doors in the case of an emergency. I am never certain if I'm wrong about this or not. If so, it shows again the paradox of using emergency exits as cash cow with an increasing number of airlines (more room, some people willing to pay for it, let's sell it to whoever is -- be it on BA, AF-KL, most US airlines, etc) or, more traditionally, strategic seats safety-wise (we don't want some types of people to seat there, we want the most efficient and reactive passengers who would do the best job in the case of an emergency, which are not necessarily those who would pay for the exit row).

Anyway, assuming there was good reason to want someone to sit there, I do think that it was handled with some level of sensitivity by the FAs in this case.

KLM FA's always reserve the exit seat overhead bins for the exit row pax, to ensure that they have an alternative to placing their cabin luggage on the floor or under the seat infront (as this is obvously not allowed). Good policy.

KLM FA's always reserve the exit seat overhead bins for the exit row pax

I've definitely been on flights where this was not done...

At 1.93m and an FB platinum, I always take an exit seat. The "saving" of space in the overheads I have seen on less than 25% of my 60-200 flights a year. That said, I have seen more of it lately. Some aircraft even have placards on the bin doors saying that it is reserved for exit row passengers. Let's see if it sticks.

I always thought it was supposed to be a safety hasard to have an exit row with noone seating in it as their would then be noone to take care of opening the doors in the case of an emergency. I am never certain if I'm wrong about this or not.

As I understand it some countries have rules about this, some don't. The Netherlands appear to fall into the latter category - or if they don't then perhaps no one has told KLM yet! The FA told me that empty emergency exit rows had become a regular occurrence since they changed the policy, and she clearly wasn't happy about it.

This was a few months ago (not long after they started charging GEs), and maybe they've now been told they have to put people into those rows... but it would be a fairly recent change, I've been on flights not that long ago where the emergency exit rows were empty (mostly on the NWI-AMS route - where the Plats tend to sit in Business Class and GEs, understandably, aren't prepared to pay extra on such a short flight)

It was my impression that the FA's are only allowed to move passengers into paid seats if circumstances so dictate.

I can check with KLM and get back to you.

Gajan

It was my impression that the FA's are only allowed to move passengers into paid seats if circumstances so dictate.

I can check with KLM and get back to you.

Gajan

Every flight I have taken this year, where there were more than 2 E seats empty, the FA upgraded somebody to one of them. AF and KL.

It seems terribly unsafe that there are flights taking off with no pax in the exit rows. I would be surprised to hear the UK CAA accepting this. If the Dutch regulator condones this practice, shame on them :td: and at the same time shame on KLM for trying to make money over passenger safety. :td:

Of course, having no-one there means the door cannot be opened quickly. Worst of all is that other pax will need to open it but will have not been briefed by the crew and might struggle to open it.

Quite shocked to be honest. :eek:

It seems terribly unsafe that there are flights taking off with no pax in the exit rows. I would be surprised to hear the UK CAA accepting this. If the Dutch regulator condones this practice, shame on them :td: and at the same time shame on KLM for trying to make money over passenger safety. :td:

Of course, having no-one there means the door cannot be opened quickly. Worst of all is that other pax will need to open it but will have not been briefed by the crew and might struggle to open it.

Quite shocked to be honest. :eek:

As mentioned in another thread these seats are reserved for the blind and disabled and unaccompanied minors;)

It seems terribly unsafeCommercial airline accidents are so vey rare, that not having anybody in the emergency exit row doesn't make much of a difference. Crossing eight lanes of rush hour traffic with your eyes closed is something I would call terribly unsafe.

Johan

Commercial airline accidents are so vey rare, that not having anybody in the emergency exit row doesn't make much of a difference. Crossing eight lanes of rush hour traffic with your eyes closed is something I would call terribly unsafe.

Johan

Safety culture works quite different from your scenarios imho. Serious accidents are rarely caused by stupidity such as crossing 8 lanes in rush hour with your eyes closed. They are usually caused by a chain of tiny seemingly insignificant events that go wrong, and together cause disaster. Only one tiny seemingly unsignificant event needs to be taken out of such a chain to avoid disaster.

Although obviously insignificant things make it highly unlikely that something will go wrong, it is the chain of events which are usually observed in disasters which dictates that proper safety culture is in the detail.

In my opinion it does not rhyme when people seated in the exit row must get instructions, just in case (and if you don't understand them or can't cooperate for whatever reason you leave that row), and at the same time when the row is empty suddenly the safety measures concerning operating the emergency doors do not exist anymore.

In my opinion it does not rhyme.Of course it doesn't rhyme, but an empty emergency exit row does not suddenly make the flight terribly unsafe. On the contrary, it remains terribly safe.

Johan

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/article-2117537/Ryanair-investigated-emergency-exit-rows-left-passengers-snub-10-charge.html

Instrument number CASA 178/12
I, PETER BEILBY CROMARTY, Acting Executive Manager, Operations Division, a delegate of CASA, make this instrument under regulation 208 of the Civil Aviation Regulations 1988.
[Signed P. B. Cromarty]
Peter Cromarty
Acting Executive Manager
Operations Division
14 June 2012
Direction — number of cabin attendants (Virgin Australia Airlines)
1 Duration
This instrument:
(a) commences on 1 July 2012; and
(b) stops having effect at the end of 30 June 2013.
2 Application
This instrument applies to an aircraft mentioned in section 3, operated by Virgin Australia Airlines Pty Ltd, Aviation Reference Number 567591 (the operator), and engaged in regular public transport, or charter, operations.
3 Direction
In spite of subparagraph 6.1 (b) of Civil Aviation Order 20.16.3 (CAO 20.16.3), the operator may operate an Australian registered Boeing 737-800 series aircraft with a type certificate data sheet that provides for a maximum seating capacity of 189 passengers if there is 1 cabin attendant for every 50 passenger seats or part of that number.
Note CAO 20.16.3 applies in all other respects to an aircraft referred to in this section.
4 Conditions
The direction is subject to the conditions mentioned in Schedule 1.
Schedule 1 Conditions
1 Only physically competent (able-bodied) persons may occupy seats in the emergency exit rows.
2 During the aircraft take-off, landing operation and in prepared emergencies, each exit row must be occupied by a minimum of 2 able-bodied persons.
3 All passengers seated in the emergency exit rows must receive and respond to a briefing which instructs them in the opening of emergency exits and subsequent actions required in the event of an emergency.
4 The operator must ensure that the aircraft can be evacuated in 90 seconds.
5 Arrangements for the seating and briefing of passengers must be in accordance with procedures set out in the operator’s operations manual and approved by CASA.

Short-haul flight in B737 in exit row (again, some space in the overhead luggage bin was reserved by FA): Only 10C and 10D were occupied; immediately after the boarding was completed, an elderly man pushes past me to 10F and sits down; flight attendant tells him that he can't have luggage under the seat; some strange pantomime ensues until he hands over his backpack; a few minutes later, flight attendant wants to give evacuation instructions and asks "Do you speak English?"; the guy shakes his head; flight attendant asks "what is your seat number?"; guy points to 08E, and she asks him to return to his seat.

What surprised me was that she didn't even ask for Dutch. She was obviously
a Dutch native speaker, he was not obviously non-Dutch. Is it policy that
you need to speak English to sit in an emergency seat (I though that the
policy was "English or Dutch")? Or did she just have a hunch that he was not
in the right seat?

Is it policy that
you need to speak English to sit in an emergency seat (I though that the
policy was "English or Dutch")? Or did she just have a hunch that he was not
in the right seat?

As far as I know, it is English or Dutch.

Short-haul flight in B737 in exit row (again, some space in the overhead luggage bin was reserved by FA): Only 10C and 10D were occupied; immediately after the boarding was completed, an elderly man pushes past me to 10F and sits down; flight attendant tells him that he can't have luggage under the seat; some strange pantomime ensues until he hands over his backpack; a few minutes later, flight attendant wants to give evacuation instructions and asks "Do you speak English?"; the guy shakes his head; flight attendant asks "what is your seat number?"; guy points to 08E, and she asks him to return to his seat.

What surprised me was that she didn't even ask for Dutch. She was obviously
a Dutch native speaker, he was not obviously non-Dutch. Is it policy that
you need to speak English to sit in an emergency seat (I though that the
policy was "English or Dutch")? Or did she just have a hunch that he was not
in the right seat?

Why not just that the FA had already had enough of him sneaking to an exit row seat and now luckily had the regulatory issue to more comfortably send him back to where he belonged (whereby (s)he couldn't care much about the possibility of speaking Dutch)? :)

As far as I know, it is English or Dutch.

Both languages are required if you do the KLM OLCI:

U heeft een stoel bij een nooduitgang geselecteerd. De door u geselecteerde stoel
kan alleen worden bevestigd indien u bereid en in staat bent ons cabinepersoneel te
helpen in geval van een evacuatie en indien u voldoet aan de volgende voorwaarden:
•U reist niet met een kind jonger dan 13 jaar.
•U bent in staat Engels- en Nederlandstalige instructies van ons
cabinepersoneel te horen, te begrijpen of uit te voeren.
•U heeft geen aandoening die u er bij een evacuatie van zou kunnen
weerhouden een of meer hulptaken uit te voeren, of waardoor u letsel zou
kunnen oplopen tijdens de uitvoering van dergelijke taken.
•U bent bereid ons bevoegde cabinepersoneel te assisteren met alle
evacuatietaken die aan u kunnen worden toegewezen.

Both languages are required if you do the KLM OLCI:

Not if you're checking in in English, IIRC. No mention of Dutch there.

I think the idea is that if you are a Dutch speaker (or perhaps a speaker of anything other than English?) you must confirm that you can communicate in English - but if you are an English speaker then there is no need to know any other language.