Checkpoints and Borders Policy Debate - TSA firing 8 Air Marshals for drinking on duty

The Transportation Security Administration is in the process of firing eight federal air marshals for drinking alcohol while on duty during a training session in New York. Six additional air marshals are being suspended for not reporting the misconduct.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57463953/tsa-firing-8-air-marshals-for-drinking-on-duty/?tag=stack

The Transportation Security Administration is in the process of firing eight federal air marshals for drinking alcohol while on duty during a training session in New York. Six additional air marshals are being suspended for not reporting the misconduct.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57463953/tsa-firing-8-air-marshals-for-drinking-on-duty/?tag=stack

The TSA spokesman said the agency found out about the alleged drinking from a tip emailed to a TSA website used by employees to report bad behavior.

I'm surprised. Truly.

Drinking on the job where expressly forbidden where the result of getting caught results in termination-well they get what they deserve imho-and regardless of what type of job it is tho I do feel just a little bit sorry* for the probie as he/she "was out with the boss"


*tho not a lot as they knew the rules as well

I'm surprised. Truly.

Geez! How could you guys have missed this:

"TSA holds all of its employees to the highest professional and ethical standards and has zero tolerance for misconduct in the workplace," the agency said in a statement. "TSA's decision to remove the individuals involved in the misconduct affirms our strong commitment to the highest standards of conduct and accountability."

The TSA spokesman said the agency found out about the alleged drinking from a tip emailed to a TSA website used by employees to report bad behavior.

It's interesting that they are so infested with scumbags that they have instituted a culture of ratting on each other. 'Kinda explains, perhaps, why some of them take it out on us.

The bottom line is that the notion of drunk and armed clerks make genital gropings and cancer boxes seem like minor inconveniences.

People have alleged that I was drinking alcohol when all I was having was a glass of Coca-Cola with a slice of lemon/lime and ice in it with a stir stick in the glass. I hope this sort of thing is not what happened to any of the terminated employees. Accusations and suspicions without reliable evidence are the sort of thing that makes the TSA intolerable and intolerant.

It's interesting that they are so infested with scumbags that they have instituted a culture of ratting on each other.

They need to do it more often, instead of claiming the "cameras weren't working."

The Transportation Security Administration is in the process of firing eight federal air marshals for drinking alcohol while on duty during a training session in New York. Six additional air marshals are being suspended for not reporting the misconduct.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57463953/tsa-firing-8-air-marshals-for-drinking-on-duty/?tag=stack

How could be happening? Why they firing those 8 FAM? It's not acceptable for the behavior. They can't be drinking the alcohol beverage. They shouldn't drinking like that. They are breaking the rules. They did not followed the specific rules.

That's why they sit in first class! For the FREE DRINKS!

That's why they sit in first class! For the FREE DRINKS!

Yeah, they did. They can't be drinking the alcohol like that. It's very wrong.

That's why they sit in first class! For the FREE DRINKS!

Too bad we can no longer play "Spot the FAM" based on those who don't order alcohol. :D

Too bad we can no longer play "Spot the FAM" based on those who don't order alcohol. :D

I was mistaken for one at least once in 2007 or thereabouts. I was flying in a suit and a crew cut, and had a root canal the day before. Vicodin and alcohol don't mix well on the ground, let alone at altitude.

That's why they sit in first class! For the FREE DRINKS!

this is why I drink heavily in F. If trouble breaks out, I don't want to be confused with a FAM.

We seemed to have overlooked the best part of this story... check out this report:
CBS New York:
TSA Fires 8 N.Y. Air Marshals For Allegedly Drinking On The Job
Agency: Total Of 14 Disciplined Following Episode At Hooters Near LaGuardia
June 29, 2012 8:20 PM (http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/06/29/tsa-fires-8-n-y-air-marshals-for-drinking-on-the-job/)

A short quote:

But on Friday the Transportation Security Administration fired eight air marshals from New York for “inappropriate and unethical” conduct.

Sources told CBS 2’s Marcia Kramer the inappropriate behavior was drinking on duty at a Hooter’s bar near LaGuardia Airport. The unethical behavior was asking for a law enforcement discount to reduce the tab.

It's interesting that they are so infested with scumbags that they have instituted a culture of ratting on each other.

To be fair, many folks here at FT have been calling for exactly this sort of culture --- scolding TSOs who don't report on their fellow TSOs, calling for "secret shopper" programs, and so on.

To be fair, many folks here at FT have been calling for exactly this sort of culture --- scolding TSOs who don't report on their fellow TSOs, calling for "secret shopper" programs, and so on.

"Secret shopper" type programs for DHS/TSA/CBP-conducted screening are something I would welcome ... if the "secret shopper" type programs are appropriately done. Unfortunately doing it right is not something that is a given when it comes to DHS/TSA in this regard.

I don't welcome an expansion of the "see something (you imagine is unusual), say something is unusual" frenzy. Nor do I welcome situations that call for a rat a rat culture -- rather just clean house so rats have no place and rat a rat culture is generally unnecessary.

That rat a rat culture is being encouraged is a sign of just how dirty DHS already is.

Nor do I welcome situations that call for a rat a rat culture -- rather just clean house so rats have no place and rat a rat culture is generally unnecessary.

If they can't be counted on to rat out their thieving/molesting/abusive co-workers, they can't be trusted with anything at all.

I don't welcome an expansion of the "see something (you imagine is unusual), say something is unusual" frenzy. Nor do I welcome situations that call for a rat a rat culture -- rather just clean house so rats have no place and rat a rat culture is generally unnecessary.

Out of curiosity ... how do you "clean house" without being able to identify the "rats"? Especially when most of the "rats" do their jobs properly when they know you're watching them? (This is a problem with many workplaces, of course.)

I actually like the FAM program as it could actual provide a deterrent and action if someone did do something.

I also like the "secret shopper" idea as part of the TSA/DHS Office of the Inspector General. Personally I'd like it to be a Congressional Committee they report to but that'll never happen.

I actually like the FAM program as it could actual provide a deterrent and action if someone did do something.

I also like the "secret shopper" idea as part of the TSA/DHS Office of the Inspector General. Personally I'd like it to be a Congressional Committee they report to but that'll never happen.

Can you explicate any evidence to show a favorable cost-benefit analysis to the FAM program?

The report cited above provides additional evidence why FAMS in the long run will likely lead to more, not less deaths.

It's still part of DHS so it will never be cost effective. I just find it to be the most Legit TSA action taken so far.

Can you explicate any evidence to show a favorable cost-benefit analysis to the FAM program?

The report cited above provides additional evidence why FAMS in the long run will likely lead to more, not less deaths.

this is why I drink heavily in F. If trouble breaks out, I don't want to be confused with a FAM.

Yeah, that's my excuse as well!!!:):)

Out of curiosity ... how do you "clean house" without being able to identify the "rats"? Especially when most of the "rats" do their jobs properly when they know you're watching them? (This is a problem with many workplaces, of course.)

Strip away that which feeds the rats, essentially eliminate opportunities for rats to feed: gut the TSA's power by restricting what they can do as a matter of routine. An allowance to mess around with passengers and passengers' belongings -- even without the passengers' presence -- creates a dangerous culture that is hospitable/attractive to rats. Other than feeding their sexual appetites, what attracts adult male rats more than perceived opportutinities to feed or hoard? Not a whole lot, so get rid of those opportunities in large part and the rats will go elsewhere in the main.

It's still part of DHS so it will never be cost effective. I just find it to be the most Legit TSA action taken so far.

Respectfully, the most legit thing done for aviation security in 2011 is reinforcing the cockpit doors. The second most legit thing is raising awareness by crew and passengers of the threat of hijacking and the use of a plane as a projectile weapon.

Apart from that, efforts by DHS, FAA, or other agencies are pretty much useless. It remains to be seen whether the "no-fly" list will be helpful.

I'll agree on the door but some of the crew part has gone into the paranoid mindset.
Personal experience was I was getting a steady drip of fluid, dirty water, dropped onto me during bumpy flight. I went to hop across the Aisle into an empty seat and was forcefully put back into my seat by a flight attendant and threatened for violating the Pilot's instructions to remain seated with seat belt on. When asked why I was so sweaty I laughed and was told this situation is not funny sir. I'm not a small guy so push me back into my seat took more than just simple effort. While being lectured drops continued to fall on me. I pointed this out and was told to stay put while she got napkins. Napkins sure do solve everything.



Respectfully, the most legit thing done for aviation security in 2011 is reinforcing the cockpit doors. The second most legit thing is raising awareness by crew and passengers of the threat of hijacking and the use of a plane as a projectile weapon.

Apart from that, efforts by DHS, FAA, or other agencies are pretty much useless. It remains to be seen whether the "no-fly" list will be helpful.

We seemed to have overlooked the best part of this story... check out this report:
[URL="http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/06/29/tsa-fires-8-n-y-air-marshals-for-drinking-on-the-job/"]

Why they didn't arrested on those 8 FAM? They could be charges with DUI. Because they were very extremely intoxicated. They have stay in sobers for 8 hours without flying or driving in the car.