Other Asian, Australian and South Pacific Frequent Flyer Programs - help with denied boarding amsterdam to china

we were denied boarding on a china south as they said we did not have the correct visa paperwork for my wife.

we booked via KLM and they told china south thye were in the wrong and to let us fly.

We spent a long time making sure we had the correct documents and visited the chinease embassy to make sure they were correct.

As we were deined boarding KLM put us on a flight the next day. We missed our connecting train to Xian and spent an umwanted day in china trying to catch up again. KLM were brilliant and much as they could at the time. On our return home we started trying to claim compensation under the european 261/2004. However even though we booked with KLM they said th needed to pass this claim to China South.

China South have sent me an e-mail stating they are accepting they did make a mistake and we should have been allowed to board. However they do not see our denied boarding as being denied boarding. So all our extra costs will not be met and they will not accept the european rules even if it was flighing from a european airport.

Any help on this would be most greatful. We spent 2 year saving and dreaming about this trip to have it really spoilt and now China South just keep rubbing salt into our wounds.

we were denied boarding on a china south as they said we did not have the correct visa paperwork for my wife.

we booked via KLM and they told china south thye were in the wrong and to let us fly.

We spent a long time making sure we had the correct documents and visited the chinease embassy to make sure they were correct.

As we were deined boarding KLM put us on a flight the next day. We missed our connecting train to Xian and spent an umwanted day in china trying to catch up again. KLM were brilliant and much as they could at the time. On our return home we started trying to claim compensation under the european 261/2004. However even though we booked with KLM they said th needed to pass this claim to China South.

China South have sent me an e-mail stating they are accepting they did make a mistake and we should have been allowed to board. However they do not see our denied boarding as being denied boarding. So all our extra costs will not be met and they will not accept the european rules even if it was flighing from a european airport.

Any help on this would be most greatful. We spent 2 year saving and dreaming about this trip to have it really spoilt and now China South just keep rubbing salt into our wounds.

I should think that you need to work your complaint through the European authorities as well. If you deal only with the Chinese, then you will get nowhere. But if China Southern wants to keep its privileges to access Europe, it must abide by European rules. Expect this battle to take a long time and to not be easy, but in the end you may prevail. Make sure you have all your receipts and documentation for all the additional costs, and be specific on what damages you want to recover. As you work through this ordeal, take names down and clearly document every contact you have. And demand supervisory personnel at China Southern--don't even bother with low-level employees as they aren't empowered to do anything.

If you are a reader/writer of Chinese, also try the forums at www.flyertea.com to see if they have any ideas or specific contacts at CZ that might help you.

One more wrinkle: I am unclear on whether due to ticketing stock or whatever, if KLM actually has the legal responsibility vs China Southern. If your contract of carriage was with KLM, then I would think they would be responsible to you, and then they deal with recovery directly with China Southern.

China South have sent me an e-mail stating they are accepting they did make a mistake and we should have been allowed to board. However they do not see our denied boarding as being denied boarding. So all our extra costs will not be met and they will not accept the european rules even if it was flighing from a european airport.

Any help on this would be most greatful. We spent 2 year saving and dreaming about this trip to have it really spoilt and now China South just keep rubbing salt into our wounds.

You might want to try the National Enforcement Body in Netherlands by whom your claim would be dealt:

Inspectie Leefomgeving en Transport
Human Environment and Transport
Inspectorate
Postbus 575
NL - 2130 AN HOOFDDORP
www.ILenT.nl

[Passenger Complaints]
Postbus 575
NL - 2130 AN HOOFDDORP
Tel. : +31 884 890 000
Fax : +31 704 5630 13
www.ILenT.nl

Im happy you eventually made it to China - it's a beautiful country One thing to remember, go through the process of figuring out your compensation, but don't give it the "power" to take away from a trip that took you two years to save up.

Think of it as a "hiccup" you had on your way to China and NOT the China trip with huge incident that took away from any beauty on a vacation you saved two years for.

I'm not saying you are, but when I read, "rubbing salt into our wounds" - you are allowing China Southern to do the rubbing.

UG

As someone who's had the misfortune of hounding CZ for a refund over the course of an 18 month period, I think you are absolutely best focusing on EU angle. Dealing with CZ itself is very frustrating... they will treat you like a hot potato.

Thanks Everyone. Fantastic advice, great links, we will try them all :-)

The Holiday was great and we did have a great time. 2500 pictures to prove it :-)

The flights were booked via KLM, but when we got the flight details, The KL flight to Beijing was being operated by China South, as one of their partners/code sharing.

My original complained was to KLM as we had booked with them and our flight numbers were all KLxxx. Weeks later KLM asked us to contact China South directly as they said they had done everything they could. I do get the feeling KLM ar not happy and perhaps will still help us if pushed. I'm sure KLM and China South will have to sort it out between them, if the Human Environment and Transport Inspectorate are involved :-)

Yes sounds like this will be a long haul to get it all resolved. But with such great advice and links I owe you all a huge thanks :-)

Hey hwang, a bit belated, but Welcome to FlyerTalk. Do check back with some progress reports from time to time (you can find this thread again by using the Search function for your own user name). And do feel free to participate actively in the other forums that suit your interests. :)

Hey hwang, a bit belated, but Welcome to FlyerTalk. Do check back with some progress reports from time to time (you can find this thread again by using the Search function for your own user name). And do feel free to participate actively in the other forums that suit your interests. :)

Thanks, this site was a great find. I will keep this port up to date as maybe it will help others.

Still not sure of my next step. I think I need to write to KLM and China south and remind them of the laws and to give them a chance to follow the rules before I take the next step.

I dont want China South to stand their ground again like they did when they knew they were wrong not allowing us to board.

You bought your ticket from KLM, KL ticket number...their problem if they code-share with unreliable partners. Send a strongly worded letter to KL's General Counsel, and be firm that you will follow up with the EU authorities and proceed to Small Claims Court, if your jurisdiction has such. It will be KL's responsibility to get their money back from CZ.

One more wrinkle: I am unclear on whether due to ticketing stock or whatever, if KLM actually has the legal responsibility vs China Southern. If your contract of carriage was with KLM, then I would think they would be responsible to you, and then they deal with recovery directly with China Southern.

You bought your ticket from KLM, KL ticket number...their problem if they code-share with unreliable partners. Send a strongly worded letter to KL's General Counsel, and be firm that you will follow up with the EU authorities and proceed to Small Claims Court, if your jurisdiction has such. It will be KL's responsibility to get their money back from CZ.

While the OP might have bought their ticket from KLM, any claim for compensation can only be obtained from the operating carrier under 261/2004. The ticketing airline plays no part in this, codeshare or not.

While the OP might have bought their ticket from KLM, any claim for compensation can only be obtained from the operating carrier under 261/2004. The ticketing airline plays no part in this, codeshare or not.

Centipede 100 is correct. Compensation is due from the operating carrier and you are correct I do not see why they should consider this not covered be ec261/2004. You were denied boarding without exceptional circumstances they owe you the cash period (only the specified amount though as well as meals or hotel night in ams if needed, not expenses due to missed train etc which you should claim from your travel insurance.

Centipede 100 is correct. Compensation is due from the operating carrier and you are correct I do not see why they should consider this not covered be ec261/2004. You were denied boarding without exceptional circumstances they owe you the cash period (only the specified amount though as well as meals or hotel night in ams if needed, not expenses due to missed train etc which you should claim from your travel insurance.

Thanks I will be just chasing China south for the 261/2004 compensation.

So far the wife, who speaks chinease, has now spoken to china south today. took her hours to get to the right person. Now we are waiting on a call from them, will take place before this Friday.

After this I will start reporting them and dragging KLM in on everything :)

While the OP might have bought their ticket from KLM, any claim for compensation can only be obtained from the operating carrier under 261/2004. The ticketing airline plays no part in this, codeshare or not.

Thanks I will be just chasing China south for the 261/2004 compensation.

So far the wife, who speaks chinease, has now spoken to china south today. took her hours to get to the right person. Now we are waiting on a call from them, will take place before this Friday.

After this I will start reporting them and dragging KLM in on everything :)

Don't settle for anything else than what they are due for you in Euros. I would also sent the person at China Southern a registered letter so that there is a document trail.

KLM sold you the ticket and was probably the ground handling agent, but the liability is with China Southern.

Thanks I will be just chasing China south for the 261/2004 compensation.

So far the wife, who speaks chinease, has now spoken to china south today. took her hours to get to the right person. Now we are waiting on a call from them, will take place before this Friday.

After this I will start reporting them and dragging KLM in on everything :)

As I noted upthread, it took me 18 months of constant badgering to squeeze a refund out of CZ several years ago. Those promised phone calls by Friday rarely happened, and when they did, the typical message was "you need to call Guangzhou" (from the Beijing people) or "you need to call Beijing" (from the Guangzhou people). I shall also note that my travel agent (Lido Beijing) was completely useless... this is one of the main reasons I started using ctrip almost exclusively.

In your case, you might have a slightly better chance of success by focusing on their EU people, but my gut tells me that you'll end up being passed back and forth between them and Guangzhou.

I sincerely hope that you make meaningful progress with your claim during the course of the next two weeks. If not, I suggest that you register for gzstuff.com, and find a college student or xiaobailing to help you shake them down.

You bought your ticket from KLM, KL ticket number...their problem if they code-share with unreliable partners. Send a strongly worded letter to KL's General Counsel, and be firm that you will follow up with the EU authorities and proceed to Small Claims Court, if your jurisdiction has such. It will be KL's responsibility to get their money back from CZ.

Fully agree with this approach. The ticket contract is with KLM. KLM should compensate you and then they will go after CZ on their own. You have no contractual relationship with CZ so they will pass you around and wait it out. Chinese airlines are quite bad with compensation to begin with although I did experience a wonderful exception flying out of LHR with CA last year.

I suggest you complain to the European regulators directly and go after KLM. You guys are lucky Europe has good legislation on these things. Here in Asia, we hear far worse stories which escalate to sit-in's on planes and on tarmacs before a few meagre dollars come to shut people up.

The ticket contract is with KLM. KLM should compensate you and then they will go after CZ on their own. You have no contractual relationship with CZ so they will pass you around and wait it out.

I suggest you complain to the European regulators directly and go after KLM. You guys are lucky Europe has good legislation on these things.

Perhaps you missed the last few posts explaining to the OP that the liability for compensation lies with the operating carrier and not the ticketing carrier.

KLM has no liability to the passenger for the acknowledged claim of denied boarding whereas China Southern has admitted they made the error.

Complaining to the European regulators directly and go after KLM may only delay matters since they will only repoint the OP in the direction of the Operating Carrier under the Regulation in question.

I think KLM should be the one chasing after CZ, not the passenger, even though CZ will be coughing up the money in the end. If CZ doesn't pay up, then KLM needs to absorb the loss and rethink their partnership with CZ.

I find it hard to believe a KLM ticket bears no KLM liability. If I contract out house renovations to A and they subcontract it to B, I can most certainly chase after A if B's work is not up-to-standard.

Please shed some light on whether contractual law works differently in EU aviation.

I think KLM should be the one chasing after CZ, not the passenger, even though CZ will be coughing up the money in the end. If CZ doesn't pay up, then KLM needs to absorb the loss and rethink their partnership with CZ.

Please shed some light on whether contractual law works differently in EU aviation.

Regulation (EC) No 261/2004 of the European Parliament and of the Council of 11 February 2004 establishing common rules on compensation and assistance to passengers in the event of denied boarding and of cancellation or long delay of flights:

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:32004R0261:EN:HTML

You will see that right the way through this Regulation references are made to the 'operating carrier' not the ticketing carrier or the marketing carrier, therefore any liability for infringements under the Regulation are the legal responsibility of the operating carrier and no other legal entity.

I am not saying that there is no contractual liability between the ticket issuer and the passenger on certain issues surrounding the issue of their ticket, only that in this particular aspect of passenger aviation law, the operating carrier is liable.

Regulation (EC) No 261/2004 of the European Parliament and of the Council of 11 February 2004 establishing common rules on compensation and assistance to passengers in the event of denied boarding and of cancellation or long delay of flights:

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:32004R0261:EN:HTML

You will see that right the way through this Regulation references are made to the 'operating carrier' not the ticketing carrier or the marketing carrier, therefore any liability for infringements under the Regulation are the legal responsibility of the operating carrier and no other legal entity.

I am not saying that there is no contractual liability between the ticket issuer and the passenger on certain issues surrounding the issue of their ticket, only that in this particular aspect of passenger aviation law, the operating carrier is liable.

I can second Centipede100. Go after CZ directly. At the same time, do send your complaint to (as also suggested by Centipede100):

Inspectie Leefomgeving en Transport
Human Environment and Transport
Inspectorate
Postbus 575
NL - 2130 AN HOOFDDORP
www.ILenT.nl

[Passenger Complaints]
Postbus 575
NL - 2130 AN HOOFDDORP
Tel. : +31 884 890 000
Fax : +31 704 5630 13
www.ILenT.nl

I had a case with Transavia some years back and ILenT in Hoofddorp was very helpful and I got my rightful compensation.

met vriendelijke groets,

Timmy

Hi Everyone.
Thanks for continuing the support and advice. Just an update on what we have done since reciving thr China South Email.

My wife went to china south website and found a link to speak to china souths live help desk. she spoke to then in chinease and sent a picture of the rejected boarding pass. Lucky KLM gave us them and told us hold onto these. My wife was on for most of the afternnon speaking to them. They told us they would call back before Friday.

I meanwhile contacted KLM with the link from original claim to update them on the progress and to tell them that I was now going to go to the Inspectie Leefomgeving en Transport, which I know would drag KLM into this and it would cost KLM further outlays with legal bills. I told them I was happy with KLM and wished to give KLM a chance to avoid further costs. I asked them as it was their partners, that they take this chance to go and speak to their partners about folowing the european rules.

This Morning china south called from amsterdam on the number my wife gave to Bejing. She told them what happened and in the end they said they will e-mail us agan as they are now going to have to speak to their superiors about our case and the compensation we are claiming.

So we wait on the next e-mail to see what the next level up will decide. They better be quick as I told KLM on Friday I would be posting the complaint to the Inspectie Leefomgeving en Transport. I cannot see any reason for not following my plan :)

Hi Everyone.
Thanks for continuing the support and advice. Just an update on what we have done since reciving thr China South Email.

My wife went to china south website and found a link to speak to china souths live help desk. she spoke to then in chinease and sent a picture of the rejected boarding pass. Lucky KLM gave us them and told us hold onto these. My wife was on for most of the afternnon speaking to them. They told us they would call back before Friday.

I meanwhile contacted KLM with the link from original claim to update them on the progress and to tell them that I was now going to go to the Inspectie Leefomgeving en Transport, which I know would drag KLM into this and it would cost KLM further outlays with legal bills. I told them I was happy with KLM and wished to give KLM a chance to avoid further costs. I asked them as it was their partners, that they take this chance to go and speak to their partners about folowing the european rules.

This Morning china south called from amsterdam on the number my wife gave to Bejing. She told them what happened and in the end they said they will e-mail us agan as they are now going to have to speak to their superiors about our case and the compensation we are claiming.

So we wait on the next e-mail to see what the next level up will decide. They better be quick as I told KLM on Friday I would be posting the complaint to the Inspectie Leefomgeving en Transport. I cannot see any reason for not following my plan :)

I believe that this time wasting strategy is intentional on their part, and you are likely to experience it over and over again. The one thing you have going for you that I did not, is that your flight was international; assuming CZ desires to continue serving AMS, they need to take your claim seriously.

The thing is, their rank and file employees in Guangzhou don't give a rat's behind about you, and their "superiors" fall into the same boat.

My advice for now:

1) don't let your wife waste too much of her time dealing with CZ customer service
2) keep us updated on your progress
3) if you still haven't gotten anywhere within 2 weeks, we (as a group) will help you craft a more sophisticated plan

You were denied boarding because China South believed that your current documents would not allow you to enter China. However, you were able to enter China with your current documents. Hence, China South was wrong and you were right.

Isn't waltzing into China without a problem enough of a proof to claim compensation from CZ's incompetence?

You were denied boarding because China South believed that your current documents would not allow you to enter China. However, you were able to enter China with your current documents. Hence, China South was wrong and you were right.

Isn't waltzing into China without a problem enough of a proof to claim compensation from CZ's incompetence?

KLM told them we had the right documents at the gate and at the KLM transfer desk they spoke to her and even got their translator to speak to her. They all told her that my wife can fly as her documents are correct. They asked her to check some book, I think someody called it the green book at the time, but I'm not sure if this is correct. She stood her ground and would not give her name to us or to KLM. KLM just told her, we will get your name do not you worry about that :D

KLM said sorry about this hapening and re-booked us onto a flight with KLM to Beijing the next day and the following day interviewed us before we got on the plane.

When we got to China we walked up to the Taiwian visa counter handed over the documents and were issued a entry visa. No questions no hassles. Then just walked through passport control.

China south have admited in writting they were wrong and we should have been allowed to board. They blame it on a failure of their gound staff. It is good to have this in writting, it could be our best evidence.

We just need to wait till Friday and see what they do by then No payout and I will drop the letter to start the complaint and see if it pushes them a little bit further. I'm happy to give them as much rope as they need to hang themselves.

I will keep updating as time passes, will owe eveeryone a good few beers now:D

I'm just a bit curious about situation though, who refused your boarding? The check-in staff or guys on the plane? What's more, as your wife speaks Chinese, there should be little communication problem. Did you request to contact higher authorities at the location, or other staff from CZ to reverify? Seeking help from call center immediately after refusal?

I'm really sorry for your situation (and CZ definitely wrong), but maybe you can share some more facts to enlighten us to prevent similar misfortunes. Just to check what could have been done.

Hold on!

You flew to Beijing, but yet you walked up to the Taiwan visa desk?? You do realize that there are two Chinas?

What was our exact routing ? What passport are you and your wife carrying?

Hold on!

You flew to Beijing, but yet you walked up to the Taiwan visa desk?? You do realize that there are two Chinas?

What was our exact routing ? What passport are you and your wife carrying?

My wife is from Taiwan and has a ROC pasport isued in Taiwan that mentions her Taiwan ID card. As you may know China "owns" Taiwan, so anyone from Taiwan just need these two documents. Thire passport must mention the ID card number and on arrival you go to a special desk. Which the wife said was just for taiwanease, which is very big in Beijing. Maybe to cut the ques down for all the flights arriving from Taiwan! There you give them £10 and they give you a visa, simple really. In fact it is not really a visa, it is a Taiwanease certficate that allows you one entry. This new system was started in 2009, so their is no reason why china souths rep should not know about this. It is her job to know about these things

I carry a UK pasport and visited the china embassy in UK to gain my visa. however they told us get your wifes visa in Beijing as this is the way it is now done. We did alot of research and found out they were right and it proved to be so simple to get a visa.

KLM staff were maning the gate, but under instruction to pass anyone to her that did not have an entry visa in their passport. The china south rep said we could not board without a visa, SO we explained the rules and she called KLM when we told her what the rules were and she then said "you are correct you can fligh with these documents, She then double checked them, So we started thinkng all was ok when she called another person, who did not know what the rules were either. So she changed her mind and said "I dont care if you are correct , China South will get fined if you flight, your not boarding" she would not budge from this. We asked to speak to her boss, but she was the only rep and in charge. theor was nobody else fom China South. We went to the transfer desk where KLM did try soo hard. At one point 4 of them were working on it. They called so many places and even poke to her, telling her to look in the green book and to also listen to their translator about what this book said. But she would not do this.

God knows how many others she has done this to as she said to my wife in Chinease " you taiwanease are all the same never getting it right". So perhaps being corrected by a Taiwanese is something her pride could not handle.

China South have now said she was wrong, we should have been allowed to fly. They also stated they had corrected the issue and this would never happen again. till the rules change and again they dont train staff to the new rules:rolleyes:

Our flight to KLM was to the exact same terminal in Beijing. When we arrived we asked about this specificaly incase there was a chance China south used a diffrent terminal. however this was not the case.

I remember this Visa upon arrival thing has been going on for quite awhile.
I feel the CZ agent is outright rude and you deserve additional apology from CZ. The agent is just lazy, and I bet at the end of your China trip, you are probably getting used to poor service in China.
Sorry for the whole situation happening to your family.
Keep us posted.

I think KLM should be the one chasing after CZ, not the passenger, even though CZ will be coughing up the money in the end. If CZ doesn't pay up, then KLM needs to absorb the loss and rethink their partnership with CZ.

I find it hard to believe a KLM ticket bears no KLM liability. If I contract out house renovations to A and they subcontract it to B, I can most certainly chase after A if B's work is not up-to-standard.

Please shed some light on whether contractual law works differently in EU aviation.
If OP purchased the ticket through a travel agent, is the travel agent liable for the loss resulting from the denied boarding? Do you work for CZ too?

If OP purchased the ticket through a travel agent, is the travel agent liable for the loss resulting from the denied boarding? Do you work for CZ too?

This is a classic case of contract law. Is it the travel agent acting as principal or agent?

A KLM ticket, in legal terms, is a contract between KLM and the passenger, acting as principal. It may be possible to argue KLM is being an agent and CZ is the principal, but this is debatable given the flight has a KLM code.

I find it hard to believe KLM can get off the hook given it is their ticket with their flight code, and they are in the same alliance relationship with CZ, which means they also have a duty of care to the passenger.

God knows how many others she has done this to as she said to my wife in Chinease " you taiwanease are all the same never getting it right". So perhaps being corrected by a Taiwanese is something her pride could not handle.


I think this is the root cause of this sorry situation. Whether jealousy, power play, or whatever was going on in this woman's head. Besides compensation, tell China Southern you want this representative required to write a self-criticism and to be reassigned/demoted to other duties, as she is an embarrassment to the company.

...tell China Southern you want this representative required to write a self-criticism and to be reassigned/demoted to other duties, as she is an embarrassment to the company.

Reassigned back to China for a period of time long enough to complete re-education...to learn the latest, updated, currently politically correct attitude toward Taiwan compatriots.

I think this is the root cause of this sorry situation. Whether jealousy, power play, or whatever was going on in this woman's head. Besides compensation, tell China Southern you want this representative required to write a self-criticism and to be reassigned/demoted to other duties, as she is an embarrassment to the company.

Thus far, the OP has not disclosed the nationality of the checkin agent in AMS, but even if that person happened to be a PRC national, I doubt any anti-Taiwan sentiments were at play (this stuff simply isn't that common any more, primarily because most Taiwanese people have learned how to eat a bit of crow in order to live in peace with Big Brother).

Hi Everyone.

Sorry I did not mean to start a debate on the reasons why she did it. My wife only told me what she had said a few days ago and I must admit I did think this must be the reason she decided to go against what everyone was telling her. I could be so wrong and most likley are :rolleyes:

Chinease people will buy anything that says "from Taiwan" before other products, they love anything Taiwan. In many ways they look up to Taiwan and would holiday there given half a chance. Which untill recently Taiwan would never let them do, without so many checks. It is easier now, but you need to prove you have lots of money first and therefore have reason to go home. It is still easier for the chinease to go to Europe and the UK.


Anyhows another update

The wife got another call from China South. They now claim only one person was denied as I was offered to fly by the China South rep. But did not take them up on this offer.

I say this is just a plain lie. I dare say you could streach what happened and place an offer into things that did not take place.

When my wife was finally refused and it had got to the point we were not getting onto the plane. she never said a word about compensation or what was next. She just told us it was KLM that needed to sort it as it was a KLM code. The only thing KLM groundstaff at the gate said was "are you flying together" My answer was "Yes, this is my wife", So they unloaded both our cases. I was never offered to continue on this flight. KLM told us get round to the T6 desk quickly as their is a plane leaving for Shanghai, its a KLM filght so you will be able to board ok. Even they knew she was wrong but could not do anything about it.


T6 battled with China South rep as this plane was full to Shanghi. We even noticed the China South flight departed late,from T6 you can see the tail fin. I do not know if this was because of us.

Anyway back to the call. They said to wife they would only pay one denied boarding. Also they had already had to pay KLM for the hotel and next plane they sorted for us. It was as if they were pleading with us to accept this as they stated that their mistake was already costing them alot of money.

My wife was too smart for them and gave them whats for and told them to go check with KLM ground staff as this was lie. Had my husband been able to fly he would have went and sorted things out for her arriving. As it was we landed in a city with no hotel, or transport to get us to Xian. So we would have taken up this offer.

My wife said She would have made me go on, had it been offered as my visa was about to expire. This is true as they day we arrived was the last possible day for me to enter. The Embassy just gave me the dates I need and nothing more!!

Then she told them we were going to take them to the european court. I had already spoken to a lawyer, erm no just taken advice here :D and I was in Europe right now (I'am but not for this). So the said they needed to go back and speak to their boss again LOL

We are waiting on another call on Wednesday.


Oh and yes the China South rep was from south China. Wife says this and I can say English is not her first language, she does not speak english like dutch people do, or any european accent, other than chinease accent on her english. However this was hard for me because she spoke to wife in chinease so many times.

Hi Again

We got another call From China South.

They are now saying they will pay the correct compensation, however we willl need to sign a document to say we will not take them to the european court.

Guess they know we will win if we did and no point in allowing us to go further.

We said that was fine, but still not resolved as now we need to wait for yet another call on friday!!

Hi Again

We got another call From China South.

They are now saying they will pay the correct compensation, however we willl need to sign a document to say we will not take them to the european court.

Guess they know we will win if we did and no point in allowing us to go further.

We said that was fine, but still not resolved as now we need to wait for yet another call on friday!!

It sounds like they actually are intent on making you whole, but I still encourage you to proceed with caution.

My suggestion: Assuming the "I promise not to take you to court" document doesn't specify "unless you pay me $X before date Y", simply add this condition to it on your own prior to signing. This is likely to cause a one week delay (their lawyers will want to review it, and they simply like buying themselves time), but if you sign an unconditional document penned by them, I believe the delay will be substantially longer.

Good luck!

It sounds like they actually are intent on making you whole, but I still encourage you to proceed with caution.

My suggestion: Assuming the "I promise not to take you to court" document doesn't specify "unless you pay me $X before date Y", simply add this condition to it on your own prior to signing. This is likely to cause a one week delay (their lawyers will want to review it, and they simply like buying themselves time), but if you sign an unconditional document penned by them, I believe the delay will be substantially longer.

Good luck!

Thanks

Very good advice, we will do this if the letter does not arrive with a cheque. Still waiting on Fridays call, but they did say it could be monday if they did not get an answer in time from their Bosses in China.

Hi Again
The call on Friday never happened. However on Tuesday this week I recived an e-mail with the letter they wished us to sign. it was both in Chinease and English. Lucky the wife can read chinease!

It basically said by accepting the compensation we were settling the case and would have no more claims regarding this flight.

I added a line to say provided the settlement was in full prior to 10th August and sent it back. Thanks to the advice Moondog.

They e-mailed today to confirm they had recived it and it was now being proccessed.

Fingers crossed it all moves quickly before the 10th and my next post is just full of smiles :D

Hi Again
The call on Friday never happened. However on Tuesday this week I recived an e-mail with the letter they wished us to sign. it was both in Chinease and English. Lucky the wife can read chinease!

It basically said by accepting the compensation we were settling the case and would have no more claims regarding this flight.

I added a line to say provided the settlement was in full prior to 10th August and sent it back. Thanks to the advice Moondog.

They e-mailed today to confirm they had recived it and it was now being proccessed.

Fingers crossed it all moves quickly before the 10th and my next post is just full of smiles :D

You seem to be doing pretty well (i.e. much better than me) in your negotiations, and I look forward to your celebratory post. But, don't be surprised (or saddened) if they throw you a curve ball (my magic 8 ball forecasts a wire transfer "issue").

:) First I have to thank everyone for listening to our rants, giving us great advice, provided the links and for the moral support. With this we were able to chase China South and make sure they could not squirm out of paying for their mistake. So thanks everyone :)

China southern have now completed the electronic transfer and they paid the full amount due due under european rules. So everything is at last over.

I owe you all so many beers now :D

^^^ Good show.

Though I haven't posted I have followed your travails. Nice job. Kudos. ^^