Hawaii-based Airlines - Is HAL the worst frequent flyer program in the world?

For Transpac flyers? I think so.

For interisland flyers? No, as they have no other viable choice.

Why? The things that other FF programs use to incent their members, such as good seating, early seating choices, upgrades, preferred boarding and free bags, HAL gives to any tourist for $35 a flight and will not give them to their FFers (except for the same $35.)

And believe me they are a tourist airline. FFers have no place in their business model.

I fly to Hnl from the mainland every month and go out of my way (taking a 1 stop change of plane itinerary rather than NS) to fly most anyone else to get real FF status.

Heck, when preboarding for HAL is announced half the plane lines up and gets on since a few flights interisland gives that status.

Anyone else have a different perspective?

Perry

I gave up on HA a few years ago
Never any upgrades with out paying 300-350 each way extra.
Customer service lines now out of the Phillipines with horrible service or recognition.

I fly Alaska Air only across the pond
USA based customer service lines
Elite ( speedier) cs lines
Great rates
Many upgrades at no additional cost

Some cons
No IFE free ( digiplayers ) like ha
First Class not as comfortable as HA

Overall AS is my much preferred pond jumper

Firstly, Air NZ's Airpoints is much, much worse.

Secondly, the trick is to join Australia's Virgin Velocity program and credit all HA flying to them, while paying for Premier Club membership.

Just don't tell anyone!

As a United 1K, I won't fly on Hawaiian to the mainland due to lack of upgrades. I'm always upgraded on United for free.

Certainly understand your pain and decision to bail from HA.

You'll be sorely missed.

Silly me, I'm actually embarrassed to find I'm flying on a "tourist" airline and the massive amount of HA miles and Amex points I've banked will be wasted on several future exorbitant 80K FC JFK/HNL award flights.

Well, I'll just have to suck it up and reminisce about my last DL LGA/MEM/LAX/HNL/SEA/MSP/LGA, ah the good old days. 53 minutes to connect in MEM on a flight notoriously late, it's such good sport.

Yes good times indeed, those many missed connections on UA were truly a time to reflect on how fortunate I was to swear allegiance to such a fine Legacy Carrier. A four hour wait in the RCC hoping the new flight upgrade clears was so relaxing, it must be celebrated.

I will contemplate the foolishness of NS flights while on those flights, sipping cocktails in a center bulkhead seat, perhaps I'll recover my senses and embrace the wisdom of connections from NYC.

BTW billx, always upgraded? if so I salute you and yes, stay with UA!

maybe. there really is not much benefit being an elite. the only reason i re qualified this year is because they have the best flight to vegas and manila from hnl.

i just wish they would offer upgrades once in a while. even on neighbor island hops would be nice.

Calling HA a "tourist airline" is rather offensive, IMO. Yes they do carry a fair number of tourists to/from Hawai'i, but most HA customers are Hawai'i residents themselves.

Yeah, HA's FF program isn't world-class, but I applaud them for not giving away the house when it comes to upgrades. If enough passengers are willing to pay for F (either by paying F fare or upgrading at check-in), why should HA be compelled to give upgrades away for free?

Throwing elites an upgrade bone periodically would be nice, but from a revenue management perspective they've obviously found the sweet spot for F. As such the upgrade entitlement mentality that's highly pervasive with elites at other carriers such as UA hasn't penetrated to HA.

BTW billx, always upgraded? if so I salute you and yes, stay with UA!

Yep, always upgraded on the Honolulu/SF or HNL/LAX which is where I go on a regular basis - I've had countless flights where there are empty seats in First Class. I do some common sense things - like avoid the the 737 flights - but never missed on 767/777 flights.

And if you are on the mainland taking a flight to Hawaii with a mechanical problem - good luck - the 12+ hour delays aren't uncommon in those circumstances.

As a United 1K, I won't fly on Hawaiian to the mainland due to lack of upgrades. I'm always upgraded on United for free.

On pmUA or after 3/3？

For Transpac flyers? I think so.....

.....PerryDefinitely not, Philippine Airlines Mabuhay Miles (https://www.mabuhaymiles.com/home/home.jsp) is worse....NO airline partners.

On pmUA or after 3/3？

Both - I'm just flying to LAX/SFO - I'm sure I would have a different experience if flying to ORD. I also take the 767/777 birds and avoid flying on holiday weekends when everyone is going back to the mainland.

Don't forget about BR.

On another thread someone claimed to be able to upgrade to First using miles.

I just called and the first agent checked the availability and 2 seats were available, which I knew because they were offered to me at $325 and said I could upgrade.

However she needed to transfer me to another department, which she did. Once I got transferred and spent 10 minutes again giving my information and explaining my request I was told you can not upgrade from coach to first using miles (and if you could they would charge you $25 for talking to them).

I also was unable to print my boarding pass at the Moana Surfrider today (they use a Mac) as the check in process froze at the baggage screen.

HAL not only is the worst FF airline around they are likely the worst airline period (well excepting their very nice gate personnel on the mainland which is in stark contrast to their personnel in Honolulu and their friendly cabin attendants)

It is an airline totally run by amateurs.

I traveled to Hnl monthly for years from Phx and HAL 36 spent a 6 month period as the worst on time regularly scheduled flight in the world. (by Flightstats.com standings with 18% on time departure). I did complain and mention that fact on this forum and all of a sudden HAL quit giving every maintenance delay on a Transpac flight to the last departure (HAL 36) soon thereafter.

Maybe again they will wake up and do something right.

Perry

HAL not only is the worst FF airline around they are likely the worst airline period

I doubt you'll have many supporters of this statement. While I agree that the HawaiianMiles program is terrible, I still love flying on HA. I have always received great treatment from both airport staff and flight crews.

Certainly, a poor frequent flyer program affects the image of the airline as a whole, but I can't see ranking them as the worst airline.

HA's FF program has held the line on giving away freebies. As a local resident, I find them wonderful to fly (of course they're the only game in town, unless you want to fly Go Mokulele). Their 767s are older but comfortable. They are being replaced with A330s. The staff, both on the ground and in the air, are helpful and pleasant. They do have somewhat of a relaxed attitude, but what's wrong with that?

Given the choice of flying the legacy carriers to the mainland, I'd choose HA every time. And oh, their on-time performance is pretty respectable!

On another thread someone claimed to be able to upgrade to First using miles.

I just called and the first agent checked the availability and 2 seats were available, which I knew because they were offered to me at $325 and said I could upgrade.

However she needed to transfer me to another department, which she did. Once I got transferred and spent 10 minutes again giving my information and explaining my request I was told you can not upgrade from coach to first using miles (and if you could they would charge you $25 for talking to them).

I also was unable to print my boarding pass at the Moana Surfrider today (they use a Mac) as the check in process froze at the baggage screen.

HAL not only is the worst FF airline around they are likely the worst airline period (well excepting their very nice gate personnel on the mainland which is in stark contrast to their personnel in Honolulu and their friendly cabin attendants)

It is an airline totally run by amateurs.

I traveled to Hnl monthly for years from Phx and HAL 36 spent a 6 month period as the worst on time regularly scheduled flight in the world. (by Flightstats.com standings with 18% on time departure). I did complain and mention that fact on this forum and all of a sudden HAL quit giving every maintenance delay on a Transpac flight to the last departure (HAL 36) soon thereafter.

Maybe again they will wake up and do something right.

Perry

This link clearly indicates that miles can be used for upgrades, although it seems you have to wait till 26 hours prior to departure. My guess is that that miles upgrades are capacity controlled.

http://www.hawaiianair.com/hawaiianmiles/pages/book-award-flights.aspx

I have been told that before.....that you need to do it within 26 hours to flight time.

After talking to the second person (in the Phillipines but good english and quite nice) I was told that you need to do it prior to 26 hours to flight time and I am at the gate now.

And 2 seats available were confirmed by both agents.

Either the website and my previous contact CSR are wrong or this one was wrong. Or they are trained to say "please wait until the day you fly" if it is before that day and to say "you should have called us yesterday if you want to upgrade" if you are calling the day of the flight.

The upshot is that you can't upgrade from Coach to First. It should be on the website if that was possible and it is not.

I have noticed that the staffing here in Honolulu is much lower than in the mainland cities so that is likely why HAL provides such kind service in the Mainland cities and they are such "butts" in Honolulu.

There was a gate change today and one attendant had to empty the plane, process seat changes and load the same plane for the Transpac return. Also they have lots of new checkin computers in the center of the terminal in HNL but it requires a gate agent to put your bag tag on the bag and check your ID and they were very very scarce so although you could get to a terminal you had to wait 10-15 minutes for an agent to clear you from the terminal.

Bummer

I have only flown HA on interisland flights. I find HA employees to be among the best. Yes, they are laid back but when I am on vacation in Hawaii, so am I so who cares! If your flying back and fourth to Hawaii for business, one does not have time to relax apparently. Rush, rush, rush.

Yes, they have issues when a plane goes MX. Where will the replacement plane be coming from? More than likely HNL. It is not like AA or UA, if a plane goes MX at a hub, they have a plane around the corner. If a plane goes MX at an airport other than a hub, more than likely the closest hub is no more than 3 hours away.

Everyone likes freebies. That said, why should anyone give away something for free than have someone pay something for that item. Think about the company you may work for. Is your company going to give away computer programs, auto's, houses, etc if someone doesn't buy them?

I have only flown HA on interisland flights. I find HA employees to be among the best. Yes, they are laid back but when I am on vacation in Hawaii, so am I so who cares! If your flying back and fourth to Hawaii for business, one does not have time to relax apparently. Rush, rush, rush.

Yes, they have issues when a plane goes MX. Where will the replacement plane be coming from? More than likely HNL. It is not like AA or UA, if a plane goes MX at a hub, they have a plane around the corner. If a plane goes MX at an airport other than a hub, more than likely the closest hub is no more than 3 hours away.

Everyone likes freebies. That said, why should anyone give away something for free than have someone pay something for that item. Think about the company you may work for. Is your company going to give away computer programs, auto's, houses, etc if someone doesn't buy them?

Then how come AA can give the seAAts?

And United and Delta and Frontier and Southwest?

And an interisland flight does give them away but who needs them. As Platinum the 1st class seats on the 717 are filled first come first served no problem. But for a 23 minute flight I don't need first or an exit row or even a drink but for 7 hours sitting in a plane (5-6 hours of flight time plus the early boarding seat time) with 30 inch seat pitch, I want (and can get from any other airline) a better seat.

I use a 15.6 inch laptop and while watching a movie yesterday I could not open the laptop but to a 60 degree angle (not 90+) as the seat in front of me was about in my chest. I was able to watch Sherlock Holmes from an acute angle. Luckily I did buy a special laptop screen that can be watched from rather extreme angles.

If I was a Honolulu resident and flew occasionally TransPac and often interisland I would be perfectly happy with HAL's FF program. A few simply interisland flights and I am platinum and get free First upgrades near every flight and would go to the trouble to buy (upgrades not reimbursed by my company, I don't know about yours) the occasional $35 exit row seat when I needed to go TransPac.

But as a FF throughout the US(although 72,000 of those annual miles are from the mainland to Hi) I can't abide by HAL's program.

The employees are very pleasant, the inter island flights are great. If you fly primarily inter island and place loyalty with HA on fly inter island..you are rewarded on many levels. If you fly mostly to the mainland and place your loyalty with HA and fly to the mainland...you find that you aligned with the wrong airline. You are really not respected for the $ you bring when compared to other airlines flying to/from the mainland.

I shared similar experiences in this forum a little while ago. The link is below.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/hawaii-based-airlines/1103634-hawaiian-shows-no-aloha-its-members-exit-row-bulkhead-fee-even-status-pax.html

just credit flights on Hawaiian to Virgin Atlantic, Korean or ANA

Calling HA a "tourist airline" is rather offensive, IMO. Yes they do carry a fair number of tourists to/from Hawai'i, but most HA customers are Hawai'i residents themselves.

Why is that offensive? Identifying your market and tailoring your product/service toward that is the proper way to build and maintain your business plan. The skies are littered with defunct carriers who tried to be all things to all people.

I doubt you'll have many supporters of this statement. While I agree that the HawaiianMiles program is terrible, I still love flying on HA. I have always received great treatment from both airport staff and flight crews.

Certainly, a poor frequent flyer program affects the image of the airline as a whole, but I can't see ranking them as the worst airline.

Indeed, and you can always transfer miles to Hilton HHonors at a not horrible ratio as well.

And, to the person you quoted, the worst airline? Ever heard of Air Koryo (who actually aren't awful)? Third-tier Russian carriers? Third-tier carriers in more rugged parts of Africa? And do I even need to bring up Ryanair?

It's really not so bad. Sure, if you're top tier with another carrier, you'll get the upgrades that Hawaiian doesn't give you. But Hawaiian gold gets me predictable access to reasonable coach seats on reasonably comfortable planes, preboarding so I don't have to worry about overhead space, and a 50% RDM bonus. Those miles won't easily get me international premium cabins, but are easy to use on flights I'd otherwise be paying for. And as long as I can avoid the God-awful Philippine call center, I'm treated decently at the airport and on board, and it doesn't bother me that they're providing the same decent treatment to occasional fliers too.

Next flight on UA will get me to silver, and concentrating everything there would get me to gold some years, but I'm really not sure I see the point. I'd get some upgrades to the west coast, but not to IAD, DEN, IAH, or EWR, and if I'm going farther east I care more about getting as far as I can on the first leg than playing upgrade roulette.

Hawaiian could do some simple little things that would make their program a lot more valuable for elites without costing them a lot or devaluing the experience for everyone else, and I wish they'd do that. But reading the UA forum is a good reminder that predictably decent treatment is not trivial, and Hawaiian delivers that.

I wouldn't say the worst, but certainly not competetive to other mainland carriers. No interisland upgrades , no help from the Philipine "Help Desk", can't book partner award tickets. I'm gold, but am seriously considering switching alliances. What's the point in racking up miles you can never redeem? Starting to question Bankoh card as well.

[QUOTE=TheBOSman;18866340]Indeed, and you can always transfer miles to Hilton HHonors at a not horrible ratio as well.

Am trying to do this, it's a painful process. 1. Called them gave all the info. They said someone from Marketing would call me back in a few days. 2. Received voicemail from Rachel leaving number to call back. 3. Number she left did not work. 4. Called main number, explained what happened to the CSR. She put me on hold about seven or eight times, each time came back and asked the same silly questions .... "Did Rachel say she was from Marketing?" "Did she say why she was calling?" etc. Finally she said someone from Marketing would call me. Am waiting for the next round of phone calls.

I doubt you'll have many supporters of this statement. While I agree that the HawaiianMiles program is terrible, I still love flying on HA. I have always received great treatment from both airport staff and flight crews.

Certainly, a poor frequent flyer program affects the image of the airline as a whole, but I can't see ranking them as the worst airline.

I have always liked flying HA, actually prefer from the mainland;)

Hi -

Interesting thread. I am a HNL resident and fly to the west coast (LAX) with Hawaiian and find their points program to be pretty good for the West Coast (17,500 points OW). I agree outside of the west coast the point conversion is pretty lousy.

I am wondering: What other point alternatives are available flying from HNL to LA?

Thanks!

I am wondering: What other point alternatives are available flying from HNL to LA?

Thanks!

Pretty much every major US airline.

Nothing wrong with Hawaiian if that's what you prefer.

-David

Pretty much every major US airline.

Nothing wrong with Hawaiian if that's what you prefer.

-David

West Coast to HNL 17,500 on economy mileage is pretty good in my opinion. Are there better point alternatives? what makes every major airline better?

West Coast to HNL 17,500 on economy mileage is pretty good in my opinion. Are there better point alternatives? what makes every major airline better?

If you are a non-frequent flyer and don't fly much, then Hawaiian has a good point structure from Hawaii and the West Coast.

If you are a frequent flyer - things like upgrades and route network start getting more important.

West Coast to HNL 17,500 on economy mileage is pretty good in my opinion. Are there better point alternatives? what makes every major airline better?

You asked what are the alternatives, thus my answer, pretty much every other major US airline.

I only credit inter-island flights to HA, and only fly them inter-island. I also get a few paltry miles from the HA/Foodland promos.

Everything else goes to UA, where I have status. That 1k status makes the miles on UA much more valuable to me. Don't know about you. Everybody's situation is different.

35k (HA) sometimes available vs 40k generally available (UA) for HA/UA mainland r/t .. the 5k is not the big difference there. The ability to go anywhere in N. America for 20k o/w, the special 1k award inventory, getting upgraded including on award flights, being able to make changes and book awards with no fees, etc, is a much bigger difference to me. 5k miles are unimportant in the larger scheme and they are easy to get with UA.

No, I'm not saying that model works for you at all. That's what works for me. I'm sure AA EXPs and Alaska's top tier have similar stories. Maybe even US top tiers too.

Maybe you can find somebody to answer this the other way as well. I'm sure there's some people out there where it makes more sense for them to get/keep status on HA because they are commuters. Or maybe there's some people that fly HA to the mainland or long haul that have reasons for it as well. Their perspective would be great.



If you are a frequent flyer - things like upgrades and route network start getting more important.

Exactly. :)

-David

West Coast to HNL 17,500 on economy mileage is pretty good in my opinion. Are there better point alternatives? what makes every major airline better?

Isn't HNL-Mainland 20000 miles one-way for HA destinations? How do you get 17500?

HI honu
west coast to hnl is 17500 hnl to west coast same i have done the one way a number of times always been 17500.

Isn't HNL-Mainland 20000 miles one-way for HA destinations? How do you get 17500?

If you have one of the HA credit cards you are able to book o/w awards for 17,500 miles. A limited number of seats are sold at the discounted level but we are usually able to secure them without too much difficulty.

Something I find good use of my HA miles for are positioning flights to the west coast for my wacky MRs or award routings.

I'll also sometimes use my gold status to go through the HA security on my way to a mainland flight during those busy times of the day (like 1100 to 1300 every weekday).

I also find the helpfulness of the staff can differ from island to island, with HNL usually being the worse. I mean, what's with the new premium check in counter? You mean I need to walk my bags over to the luggage belt myself?

It should also be noted that the only lounges worth visiting are the HNL lounge on the last Friday of the month (live music and pupus, oh and bathrooms) and the KOA lounge (it the only place to escape the awful Kona weather). Although I have never been to the LAX one. To think for years I thought that the HA lounge was what airline lounges looked like everywhere else!

If you have one of the HA credit cards you are able to book o/w awards for 17,500 miles. A limited number of seats are sold at the discounted level but we are usually able to secure them without too much difficulty.

Oh, I see. I don't have the HA credit card, so I just used 20K orphan HA miles for HNL-LAX, on the 330, as it turns out, and I thought it was an ok value. I think of HA miles as having roughly a $.01 redemption value, especially since I never have too many, so I tend to redeem them for coach awards).

Yep, always upgraded on the Honolulu/SF or HNL/LAX which is where I go on a regular basis - I've had countless flights where there are empty seats in First Class. I do some common sense things - like avoid the the 737 flights - but never missed on 767/777 flights.

And if you are on the mainland taking a flight to Hawaii with a mechanical problem - good luck - the 12+ hour delays aren't uncommon in those circumstances.

Great to hear you're 100% UG!

Not sure why you mention MX delays, they happen on all routes, a bit irrelevant to this topic, thankfully in the last 30 years NYC/HNL never had one, but several UA mis-connects.

As a lowly SLF with a ton of HA miles, all I'm saying is HA NS JFK/HNL is most welcome, 80k FC RT award great deal, and should MX rear it's head at least I'll be on next flight with no connections.

I will say that UA mileage UG's in the early 1980's were a great deal.

Sincerely wishing you continued UG success!

For Transpac flyers? I think so.

For interisland flyers? No, as they have no other viable choice.

Why? The things that other FF programs use to incent their members, such as good seating, early seating choices, upgrades, preferred boarding and free bags, HAL gives to any tourist for $35 a flight and will not give them to their FFers (except for the same $35.)

And believe me they are a tourist airline. FFers have no place in their business model.

I fly to Hnl from the mainland every month and go out of my way (taking a 1 stop change of plane itinerary rather than NS) to fly most anyone else to get real FF status.

Heck, when preboarding for HAL is announced half the plane lines up and gets on since a few flights interisland gives that status.

Anyone else have a different perspective?

Perry

Absolutely!

Whomever took umbrage to HA being called a tourist airline is in denial. HA can stay profitable with a lousy loyalty program because they don't care and don't need to care about loyalty for the few-times-in-a-lifetime tourist, and for the Islanders they are pretty much the only game in town.

Thanks for the tips about leveraging all my HA miles to something actually useful. Mainland to HNL a couple times a month for the last 5 years leaves me with a big bank of miles and shoulder cramps from the middle seat!