Southwest Rapid Rewards - Solving the Line Cutting Issue?

Delta has tried out automated gates that scan the bp in a turnstile fashion.

It seems to me WN could benefit from this more than other airlines. Imagine, a machine that is properly programmed will never allow A53 to board with A17 :D.

http://www.startribune.com/business/160326795.html

It seems to me WN could benefit from this more than other airlines. Imagine, a machine that is properly programmed will never allow A53 to board with A17 :D.



http://api.ning.com/files/Ps7g6sl4s70UtirV5Po7INQxQ7tiMShsPZLhxY868nDPuLAVrV rFCUz3YimKynhKA6tHlLSW1JPaWrLYqYRtW-xslSR1ScqY/cattle_prod.jpg



:D

Would never work with Southwest's generous cancellation and no-show policies. If A19 decides not to show up, but doesn't bother deleting his BP, after A18 goes through, the machine would expect A19. A20 wouldn't be able to get in, because he'd be "cutting". It'd require manual override. Once manual override is enabled, the entire system is shot to hell and it'd be no different than it is now, because no GA is going to spend half their day shouting in the terminal "A19? Is A19 here??" any more than they're going to spend half their day telling A50 to go away when he's lined up with A20.

Would never work with Southwest's generous cancellation and no-show policies. If A19 decides not to show up, but doesn't bother deleting his BP, after A18 goes through, the machine would expect A19. A20 wouldn't be able to get in, because he'd be "cutting". It'd require manual override. Once manual override is enabled, the entire system is shot to hell and it'd be no different than it is now, because no GA is going to spend half their day shouting in the terminal "A19? Is A19 here??" any more than they're going to spend half their day telling A50 to go away when he's lined up with A20.

It could work if the system allowed a +/- five boarding position allowance. Frankly, it's not a big deal if A20 boards in front of A18. Annoying, yes, but not the end of the world. It's when the schmuck with B30 tries to board ahead of A18 that all drama ensues.

And once you allow +/- 5, then A25 boards after A20, skipping 21-24. Then the system allows A30 to board, because it's 5 greater than the last guy, still skipping 21-24 in addition to 26-29. And then A35 could sneak in, still skipping 21-24 and 26-29, and also 31-34. Because the system has absolutely no way of telling whether 21-24 are still sitting there waiting to board or if they're a family of 4 who took a different flight and didn't bother telling anyone at Southwest.

it could still be setup so that the gate agent has to enter an override code each time a boarding card 5+ numbers from the expected or last scanned boarding pass was scanned. This could save/trigger an exception report would then be available for WN managemnet.

So this would allow A16, A21, A26, A31, A36 to be scanned with no error.

The gate agents often game the system anyway--holding them in a pile to scan in sequence/later...

The gate agents often game the system anyway--holding them in a pile to scan in sequence/later...

This.

Delta has tried out automated gates that scan the bp in a turnstile fashion.

It seems to me WN could benefit from this more than other airlines. Imagine, a machine that is properly programmed will never allow A53 to board with A17 :D.

http://www.startribune.com/business/160326795.html

Stupid article. Doesn't address the obvious question of how the turnstile enforces boarding order.

Would never work with Southwest's generous cancellation and no-show policies. If A19 decides not to show up, but doesn't bother deleting his BP, after A18 goes through, the machine would expect A19. A20 wouldn't be able to get in, because he'd be "cutting". It'd require manual override. Once manual override is enabled, the entire system is shot to hell and it'd be no different than it is now, because no GA is going to spend half their day shouting in the terminal "A19? Is A19 here??" any more than they're going to spend half their day telling A50 to go away when he's lined up with A20.

It could work if a "range" was programmed, then small out of order sequences would not be an issue, but if a person is more than 4 numbers out, it would stop them.

And once you allow +/- 5, then A25 boards after A20, skipping 21-24. Then the system allows A30 to board, because it's 5 greater than the last guy, still skipping 21-24 in addition to 26-29. And then A35 could sneak in, still skipping 21-24 and 26-29, and also 31-34. Because the system has absolutely no way of telling whether 21-24 are still sitting there waiting to board or if they're a family of 4 who took a different flight and didn't bother telling anyone at Southwest.

No, not if it were programmed to allow out of sequence LOWER numbers...so after A25 boards, anything below A25 could board any time.

Saying in a loud and authoritative voice: 'Excuse me sir, you board with the B group, this is for A16-30'. That usually solves the problem. If not, guess who with their 6ft, 300lb frame is going to park it in the middle seat next to the offender?

Saying in a loud and authoritative voice: 'Excuse me sir, you board with the B group, this is for A16-30'. That usually solves the problem. If not, guess who with their 6ft, 300lb frame is going to park it in the middle seat next to the offender?

Welcome to FlyerTalk utdbear!

I think the best solution would be to board by status.

After the legitimate pre-boarders are on then:

Board Business Select: if you are not BS, you do not board.

Board A+: If you are not A+ or BS, you do not board.

Board A-List: If you are not A-List, A+, or BS, you do not board.

Board EBCI: If you are not EBCI, A-List, A+ or BS you do not board.

Family boarding is after EBCI even if they are still taking A's.

Let everyone else find the people saving seats for them or fight over middle seats.

Out-of-order passengers within the group would be possible, but not with the vast difference in number of a B-20 slipping in behind BS.

Side benefit: A+ and A-list that have changed flights or purchased inside the 36 hour window could board at the end of their group even if they get C-5.

What about basic limits same as the official boarding process:

turnstile allows A1-A30
A31-A60
B1-B30
etc

wouldn't solve A29 boarding after A2, but it would prevent the most egregious problems.

Or a really simple solution; if someone with a really incorrect position hands their boarding pass over, they're still allowed to go through so the line doesn't slow down, but a loud computer voices says "HEY YOU CUT THE LINE". Social ostracizing would work wonders!

Or a really simple solution; if someone with a really incorrect position hands their boarding pass over, they're still allowed to go through so the line doesn't slow down, but a loud computer voices says "HEY YOU CUT THE LINE". Social ostracizing would work wonders!

You are assuming they care.

You are assuming they care.
If they could simply walk away, then it wouldn't matter. But they'll be stuck on the plane with the other passengers for at least an hour. Maybe there could be a FA announcement: "Please note, the gentleman sitting in 7C cut the line and should have boarded much later. Feel free to stare and make him uncomfortable for the remainder of the flight, and thank you for flying Southwest!"

or, have my big self sitting right next to them for an hour. I spread out. And occasionally fart. :)

or, have my big self sitting right next to them for an hour. I spread out. And occasionally fart. :)

I think you sat next to me on my last WN flight :)

If they could simply walk away, then it wouldn't matter. But they'll be stuck on the plane with the other passengers for at least an hour. Maybe there could be a FA announcement: "Please note, the gentleman sitting in 7C cut the line and should have boarded much later. Feel free to stare and make him uncomfortable for the remainder of the flight, and thank you for flying Southwest!"

I was not clear. They refers to the OA and the FA's as much as the PAX.

How about GA's for ALL AIRLINES just enforce the boarding order. Simple problem, simple solution. If you try to board out of order, then you go to the side and wait your zone, boarding number, etc. Airlines are trying to save money but if I bought a BS or EBCI, I would like to get on when I am suppose to. Not when some idoit that has C-1, who wouldnt fork out the $10 to buy EBCI, thinks he deserves to board first. I bought a BS ticket for a reason or I bought EBCI for a reason. I would like my first, second or third selection of a seat. Let alone checking my carry on at the gate because every family has twenty pieces of luggage they are trying to fit into the over head bin and there is no room for my carry on.

How about GA's for ALL AIRLINES just enforce the boarding order. Simple problem, simple solution. If you try to board out of order, then you go to the side and wait your zone, boarding number, etc. Airlines are trying to save money but if I bought a BS or EBCI, I would like to get on when I am suppose to. Not when some idoit that has C-1, who wouldnt fork out the $10 to buy EBCI, thinks he deserves to board first. I bought a BS ticket for a reason or I bought EBCI for a reason. I would like my first, second or third selection of a seat. Let alone checking my carry on at the gate because every family has twenty pieces of luggage they are trying to fit into the over head bin and there is no room for my carry on.

Sure, in an ideal world, they would. But we don't live in that world. Instead, we live in one where GA's are under pressure to get the aircraft out on time and they start cutting corners. We live in a world where people are afraid of confrontation, including GA's, and instinctively avoid it. We live in a world where GA's get tired and simply don't give a Sh** by the late afternoon.

Machines on the other hand...they have no such issues or hang ups. Machines would keep it orderly and they cannot be argued with or generally fooled by the public . Also, they require no washroom breaks or health care and they don't form unions.

Machines already fly better than pilots...it's time they took over the GA staff's jobs too. Some of us are old enough to remember flying before scanners..there was a time when the GA had to READ each BP. It's already happening with the installation of laser scanners and station computers...it is the natural order of things.

why not just asign sets.

why not just asign sets.

Welcome to FlyerTalk david5311!

Four reasons, take your pick (I'll go with #4):



What, assigned seats? We do not do that on WN.


In some cases, assigned seating actually prevents families from sitting together.


They say that the plane can be boarded more quickly with open seating than with assigned seating which requires zone boarding or you still have to line up by a place on the plane, not a number on your BP.


The IT staff is totally incompetent with little things like CP bookings and designing a web site and seat assignments are way beyond their technical capability.

Four reasons, take your pick (I'll go with #4):

5. Handling requests to change seat assignments would be a major increase in Gate Agent workload. It might delay departures and it would definitely cost money. I would therefore expect a fee to be charged for an assigned non-middle seat. No thank you! The present system with its minor flaws is far superior to that mess.

5. Handling requests to change seat assignments would be a major increase in Gate Agent workload. It might delay departures and it would definitely cost money. I would therefore expect a fee to be charged for an assigned non-middle seat. No thank you! The present system with its minor flaws is far superior to that mess.

Anything is better than when they only had A, B and C cards. Never enjoyed camping in line. The existing letter and number system is just fine. The number of people cutting are far less than the number of people getting Blue sleeves who don't need them!! If we ask for change that's the biggest problem.

5. Handling requests to change seat assignments would be a major increase in Gate Agent workload. It might delay departures and it would definitely cost money. I would therefore expect a fee to be charged for an assigned non-middle seat. No thank you! The present system with its minor flaws is far superior to that mess.

That may be a bit of a stretch. Most airlines with assigned seating do not do that, there is no reason to assume WN would. Hey, even if they did, it would be value for the money, compared to EBCI which is 10 dollars wasted most of the time anyhow thanks to seat holders, line cutters and thru pax...least of all the fact that you can still wind up the in the B group.

I continue to feel this is a non-issue. Obviously, many on FT disagree with me.

I continue to feel this is a non-issue. Obviously, many on FT disagree with me.

I like open boarding, but I am A+, and I preboard as a COS so it has little effect on me. However, when I was a line up guy, I was miffed as well about line breakers and seat savers that devalue the earned and paid status. If they are not going to enforce boarding order and open seating, then one of the few remaining solutions becomes seat assignment.

I continue to feel this is a non-issue. Obviously, many on FT disagree with me.

It's a more serious issue than you think, now that WN takes money for issuing better boarding numbers (BS, EBCI etc)...this means they take money and don't always deliver the product. Before all that it was simply social faux pas..now it is a civil suit waiting to happen.

So, will other airlines also be in this lawsuit - They take money for better boarding groups and certainly people board early there also.

So, will other airlines also be in this lawsuit - They take money for better boarding groups and certainly people board early there also.

They have assigned seats, so it does not matter.

WN does not, so boarding order does matter.

They have assigned seats, so it does not matter.

WN does not, so boarding order does matter.

Other airlines assign seats. WN assigns a boarding order. Someone taking my place in line without my permission is exactly the same as someone sitting in the seat that has been assigned to me on other airlines.

Actually, it is worse. When someone breaks line, it reassigns the order for everyone in line between where they boarded and where they should have boarded.

If someone saves seats, it reassigns the order for everyone that gets on the plane that would have taken that seat were it not saved.

We would never tolerate people simply taking whatever seat they want on an airline that assigns seats, but somehow it is fine to allow them to take the only assignment we get, our place in line. This assignment is often the result of a fee voluntarily paid or the accumulation of status from the money we have spent with WN. When people break line or save seats, they are taking from us at least a bit of the value of our payment or loyalty.

Want to board early? Pay for it like I do. I spend over $10,000 a year on mostly WGA fares. Or they can buy BS or EBCI. We paid for our position. They should pay for theirs.

[Rant over]

They have assigned seats, so it does not matter.

So why are the boarding areas of those airlines chaotic as people push to be onboard ahead of others?

So why are the boarding areas of those airlines chaotic as people push to be onboard ahead of others?

Because they want to have room for their large carry-on bags since the other airlines are charging to check bags.

Southwest Airlines doesn't plan to use the machines. Spokesman Brad Hawkins said agents scanning in boarding passes could be the first contact a flier makes with the airline's staff. "For us, that is a treasured moment of the customer experience where we build the relationship," Hawkins said.


A treasured moment? :D

Other airlines assign seats. WN assigns a boarding order. Someone taking my place in line without my permission is exactly the same as someone sitting in the seat that has been assigned to me on other airlines.

Actually, it is worse.

I disagree. Unless the line cutter had a number beyond approximately B30, it's likely that each passenger will get the type of seat he would have gotten in the correct boarding order. It might be a row or two farther aft, that's all. That's a lot better than having your assigned seat disappear due to a duplicate assignment.

I disagree. Unless the line cutter had a number beyond approximately B30, it's likely that each passenger will get the type of seat he would have gotten in the correct boarding order. It might be a row or two farther aft, that's all. That's a lot better than having your assigned seat disappear due to a duplicate assignment.

Not really, there are only 6 good seats on the plane.

But more importantly, I have PAID MONEY for a better boarding place, and line cutters de-value that purchase.

Duplicate assignments? I have over 4000 flights since 1987. Duplicate BP incidents? 1.

Not really, there are only 6 good seats on the plane.

Not to worry. The new Evolution interior will fix that for you. :rolleyes:

If a line cutter jumps in front of A16, you have a point. After about A25 those 6 seats are gone. The only cutting I've seen in recent years is by companions of A-listers. I don't do that myself but it doesn't bother me. A companion will generally occupy a middle seat with no damage to anyone's seat selection.

http://api.ning.com/files/Ps7g6sl4s70UtirV5Po7INQxQ7tiMShsPZLhxY868nDPuLAVrV rFCUz3YimKynhKA6tHlLSW1JPaWrLYqYRtW-xslSR1ScqY/cattle_prod.jpg



:DI like it! Once separated from the herd, you could worm them, vaccinate them and brand them. Oh wait, I guess that's just a Texas thing...:p

Other airlines assign seats. WN assigns a boarding order. Someone taking my place in line without my permission is exactly the same as someone sitting in the seat that has been assigned to me on other airlines.

Actually, it is worse. When someone breaks line, it reassigns the order for everyone in line between where they boarded and where they should have boarded.

If someone saves seats, it reassigns the order for everyone that gets on the plane that would have taken that seat were it not saved.

We would never tolerate people simply taking whatever seat they want on an airline that assigns seats, but somehow it is fine to allow them to take the only assignment we get, our place in line. This assignment is often the result of a fee voluntarily paid or the accumulation of status from the money we have spent with WN. When people break line or save seats, they are taking from us at least a bit of the value of our payment or loyalty.

Want to board early? Pay for it like I do. I spend over $10,000 a year on mostly WGA fares. Or they can buy BS or EBCI. We paid for our position. They should pay for theirs.

[Rant over]

I agree completely. A seat saver or line cutter is as bad as a seat poacher on a legacy. If someone wants to board earlier on WN they should fly a lot more like you do, or pay for EBCI (like I do) or BS. If someone wants to sit in economy comfort or first class on a legacy they should fly enough to get status and sit in EC for free or possibly get upgraded to first or pay extra to sit there.

People suck at life and will continue to do so......

I fly a ton, like many of you.


It seems like when I fly BS there tends to be about 20 people standing A1 to A10. I look down at my boarding pass, see A1 and think, "I'm not even in line yet".

I used to be quiet about it. Past 4 months ive changed

If I'm A1 I walk up say "who is A1? That's right it is me, I'm going first"

If I'm A2 I walk up say "I don't care who goes on first, but What has two thumbs and is going on 2nd?" THIS GUY!


If I'm A16 and the agent has stopped someone from boarding as they're playing the I'm B30, I don't understand "how SWA works, I'm confused" game........as I come up to the agent, put my hand on the persons shoulder and say "thank you, you have many loyal SWA customers and A and Aplus customers that really appreciate doing that. Thank you again, have a great day


I may seem like a total a@@. I am not. But I do want what I've earned and paid for

If I'm A1 I walk up say "who is A1? That's right it is me, I'm going first"

If I'm A2 I walk up say "I don't care who goes on first, but What has two thumbs and is going on 2nd?" THIS GUY!

You must be an absolute joy to travel with. :rolleyes:

You must be an absolute joy to travel with. :rolleyes:

Actually, that was the way I used to do it before COS. If someone is going to be an anal cavity anyway, it might as well be me.

You should have been there the time I had A-16 and a man and 7 family members got between me and the last BS. By the time I was done, everyone knew what he was and I did not care. When they called for BS, I walked around the entire family behind the last BS and stood at the podium. I was followed by at least three that were before A-20.

I watched to see when they would board and it was a long time before they got on so even the OA got in on the action. Sad part was that grandma and grandpa really could have preboarded legitimately as both were using canes.

My wife says I am a competitive traveler.

People suck at life and will continue to do so......

I fly a ton, like many of you.


It seems like when I fly BS there tends to be about 20 people standing A1 to A10. I look down at my boarding pass, see A1 and think, "I'm not even in line yet".

I used to be quiet about it. Past 4 months ive changed

If I'm A1 I walk up say "who is A1? That's right it is me, I'm going first"

If I'm A2 I walk up say "I don't care who goes on first, but What has two thumbs and is going on 2nd?" THIS GUY!


If I'm A16 and the agent has stopped someone from boarding as they're playing the I'm B30, I don't understand "how SWA works, I'm confused" game........as I come up to the agent, put my hand on the persons shoulder and say "thank you, you have many loyal SWA customers and A and Aplus customers that really appreciate doing that. Thank you again, have a great day


I may seem like a total a@@. I am not. But I do want what I've earned and paid for

I don't see anything wrong with what you are doing. If you are a-1 you paid a lot for that BS seat. If you are a-16 chances are you are either a-list or EBCI which means you paid for that BP number with either the $10 or by giving WN a lot of business. I select either an exit row or EC seat on Delta when I book and if my upgrade hasn't cleared I will sometimes switch rows if it looks like I can have a row to myself or empty middle. If the seat stays empty and a seat poacher tries to move up, I do complain. If the poacher wants to sit there and doesn't fly that much they can pay the EC fee to sit there just like they can pay for BS or EBCI on WN

At least WN isn't giving out early boarding to their Credit card holders like Delta and some other airlines are.

At least WN isn't giving out early boarding to their Credit card holders like Delta and some other airlines are.


Delta owes its continued existence, in large part, to American Express and AmEx is the dog that wags the Delta tail.

Let me know when WN actually has premium cabin 2x2 seating. :D

Let me know when WN actually has premium cabin 2x2 seating. :D

I get it now.

Let me know when they start installing it on RJ's. Oh, that's right, they are already 1x2 and 2x2 on RJ's.

Delta owes its continued existence, in large part, to American Express and AmEx is the dog that wags the Delta tail.

Am Ex is definitely in bed with Delta. If was FO on Delta I would be furious that the Delta Am Ex card holders got to board in the same zone. Am Ex is pretty close with Costco and Hilton as well, but not nearly like with Delta. But with the united credit card (issued by the same bank as Southwests) you also get early boarding, and I believe it is the same way with AA's. But a legacy's boarding is a little different than southwest's since those people won't get any better seats like on WN, just a better chance of bin space.

I like it! Once separated from the herd, you could worm them, vaccinate them and brand them. Oh wait, I guess that's just a Texas thing...:p

You forgot the most important part - the cutting! You don't want a bunch of pax running around with their huevos still attached. A Texas thing for sure, but also anywhere else around the rural west.

You must be an absolute joy to travel with. :rolleyes:

I hear that Ink's companion really enjoys traveling with him. In fact, they're inseparable. ;)

I hear that Ink's companion really enjoys traveling with him. In fact, they're inseparable. ;)

In fact, he shadows him wherever he goes!

In fact, he shadows him wherever he goes!

There is almost nothing more fun than to see the look on the check in agent's face (not to mention those checking in around me) when I tell them that I am my own companion.

I live in fear that WN will cancel this perk. It is fun and rewarding. Well, not fear like scared out of my socks fear but fear like I will have to be a "normal" COS again. It is really a lot of fun.

The automated gates like they use for Lufthansa in Europe are great. Possibly these gates would help passengers get on the right plane, make sure that everyone is onboard and cut those line cutters.