Swiss International Airlines - Upgrading staff instead of revenue passengers

Hello everyone. I need your help on this one.

The following happened on a long-haul flight on SWISS:

Business class was not fully booked, but there were several upgrades from Economy so all seats in Business eventually filled up. There were 2 non-revs in the row in front of me; it was pretty obvious since the MdC repeatedly spoke with them and told them that they might need those seats.

And then it happened. The MdC told the two staff members to move to First Class. It was pretty obvious as well. Great I thought. Just a little pre-text: I was on an award reservation with US Airways and tried to get into FC but of course no award inventory was available even though only 2 seats in First were sold.

I was a little bit disturbed that the MdC moved the 2 staff members to FC and not full paying pax…I am fairly certain that there were many Senators etc. on-board.

I decided to address the issue with the MdC (maybe a mistake?) and he told me bluntly that this is none of my concern and that he thinks it is “off” that I would ask about it in the first place. He told me that it is his, the ground staff’s and/or the captain’s decision and none of my concern. He said that I got what I paid for. At this point I ended the conversation since it made no sense to continue it. I tried to be friendly the whole time but he was pretty defensive. He did admit thought that the two passengers where non-revs.

Now as far as I know upgrading staff instead of revenue passengers particularly to First Class is a big no-no at SWISS. Now comes the difficult thing: I am currently working for SWISS but I will be gone in a couple of weeks.

30 minutes prior to landing he approached me again and said (I am quoting): “So you are Mr.XXX and your boss is Mr.XXX and you are working for SWISS” and off he went. This information is in the SWISS Intranet so he probably looked it up. For me this seems to be some kind of warning for me to pursue this matter and it confirmed my suspicion that I was right and that he should not have upgraded the two staff members.

Needless to say the flight was less than pleasant for me. Service was also not optimal…no welcome drinks or hot towels, the MdC did not greet any Business Class passengers (exept the non-revs of course). It was a night-flight and there was not a single beverage-run.

So my question is if I should pursue this matter with customer relations or am I overreacting? What do you think?

Pursue: definitely! Overreacting: IMHO no. My opinion: Bad service from SWISS!

Sometimes things are best observed and not commented... what good does it do to point out 'illegal' things to the person who did it? I once observed the P2 bump all 8 non rev family into F (only 2 pax in C, none in F), didn't mention it inflight but was peeved the entire flight.

Just report the thing to LX once you are gone from Swiss. The MdC must have sent a telex to ZRH to get a background check on you, which is probably not the right thing to do either...@:-)

30 minutes prior to landing he approached me again and said (I am quoting): “So you are Mr.XXX and your boss is Mr.XXX and you are working for SWISS” and off he went. This information is in the SWISS Intranet so he probably looked it up.

So you was a non-rev yourself? If you had a commercial booking, how come he knew you was a Swiss employee? Anyway, I have not been too impressed with LX lately, so I am not surprised...

I certainly agree (in blunt words) that this is none of your business. I would not have raised the issue on board since it is certainly the staff's decision and there might have been well reasons for this.

First, I agree with the "none of your business" comments - although the MdC could probably told you that in a nicer fashion.

Further, in ad-hoc decisions like that, the F cabin is typically not fully catered. This means that the last minute op-ups will only get "leftover" meal selections in First - something that cannot be offered to revenue passengers as per LX policy. Therefore, if the C seats were really needed, upgrading non-revs to F and offering them an "incomplete" product there, while protecting a "full" C product for the paying passengers, was in line with product integrity.

I find this also quite annoying and have the feeling from my own experience that this happens quite often on Swiss long haul flights. On a recent GVA-JFK flight, F was completely empty (not a single seat sold), C was completely full (J0/C0/D0/Z0). I was called the day before from LX and asked whether I would like to buy an upgrade to F for 1900 CHF oneway, which I rejected, as I was fine with my C seat for this 8h flight and saw some chances for an op-up given that C and Y were completely full. If not getting an op-up at least I thought to get a seat in F (without the F service) if F stayed empty. Upon boarding, a lady and her daughter crossed the my seat (4A), went straight to the cockpit and were greeted in a very familiar way by the pilot which made the unavoidable impression that these were his wife and daughter. They then sat down in row 1 in F. In addition, once boarding was almost completed, two young women showed up and were seated in the two middle seats of row 4. Both were personally known by one of the FAs and gave the impression that they were very happy and exploring the previously unknown comfort of flying in C. Three days later on my way back, similar story. A few months ago, ZRH-SFO in F, 4 of 5 other passengers in F were obviously friend or family of crew members.

Thats how staff tickets work... they standby and get the last seats available on the aircraft. Now, the gate agent could have certainly upgraded some passengers in lower classes to make room for staff to sit in economy/business, but try doing that 5 mins before the gate closes. Some agents do it (since the standby pax have to report way in advance), some don't, and nobody could object to it in principle. However, if a SEN complains often and long enough it is certainly bought to someones attention...

When I read many posts on FT, I cannot help but feel that many of us fail to appreciate how incredibly fortunate we are to be able to sit in premium cabins -- it doesn't matter if this is via miles / good deals on paid tickets / upgrade voucers / in your case the US Air "deal" / because of our job roles ---> we are incredibly fortunate as we experience things that most of our fellow human beings can only dream of.

Hence I agree with some of the others on this thread: to your question was it a mistake = yes. Are you overreacting = yes. Could the MdC have handled it better = yes

Chalk it up to experience and move on .........

Hello everyone. I need your help on this one.

The following happened on a long-haul flight on SWISS:

Business class was not fully booked, but there were several upgrades from Economy so all seats in Business eventually filled up. There were 2 non-revs in the row in front of me; it was pretty obvious since the MdC repeatedly spoke with them and told them that they might need those seats.

And then it happened. The MdC told the two staff members to move to First Class. It was pretty obvious as well. Great I thought. Just a little pre-text: I was on an award reservation with US Airways and tried to get into FC but of course no award inventory was available even though only 2 seats in First were sold.

I was a little bit disturbed that the MdC moved the 2 staff members to FC and not full paying pax…I am fairly certain that there were many Senators etc. on-board.

I decided to address the issue with the MdC (maybe a mistake?) and he told me bluntly that this is none of my concern and that he thinks it is “off” that I would ask about it in the first place. He told me that it is his, the ground staff’s and/or the captain’s decision and none of my concern. He said that I got what I paid for. At this point I ended the conversation since it made no sense to continue it. I tried to be friendly the whole time but he was pretty defensive. He did admit thought that the two passengers where non-revs.

Now as far as I know upgrading staff instead of revenue passengers particularly to First Class is a big no-no at SWISS. Now comes the difficult thing: I am currently working for SWISS but I will be gone in a couple of weeks.

30 minutes prior to landing he approached me again and said (I am quoting): “So you are Mr.XXX and your boss is Mr.XXX and you are working for SWISS” and off he went. This information is in the SWISS Intranet so he probably looked it up. For me this seems to be some kind of warning for me to pursue this matter and it confirmed my suspicion that I was right and that he should not have upgraded the two staff members.

Needless to say the flight was less than pleasant for me. Service was also not optimal…no welcome drinks or hot towels, the MdC did not greet any Business Class passengers (exept the non-revs of course). It was a night-flight and there was not a single beverage-run.

So my question is if I should pursue this matter with customer relations or am I overreacting? What do you think?
what route was this? YUL-ZRH by any chance?

what route was this? YUL-ZRH by any chance?

No, it wasn't a North American route.



Thanks for your comments, I think that I will sleep over it.

I'm always surprised how different the crews are on LX. From super nice and attentive to arrogant and ignorant. It's like playing roulette. Cannot understand that they cannot bring in some stability.

I also noticed that crews tend to favor their own people. Basically I don't mind however if it is too obvious I can understand it can upset paying clients, specially on SEN/HON level. Still personally I would have not confronted the MdC, just does not make sense -- as the result Lukas experienced proves.

I would only be upset (and maybe complain) if I pay an F ticket and the crew brings some noisy upgraded friends to F. In such a case I would feel kind of cheated.

When I read many posts on FT, I cannot help but feel that many of us fail to appreciate how incredibly fortunate we are to be able to sit in premium cabins -- it doesn't matter if this is via miles / good deals on paid tickets / upgrade voucers / in your case the US Air "deal" / because of our job roles ---> we are incredibly fortunate as we experience things that most of our fellow human beings can only dream of.

Don't be absurd....

It's quite understandable that you feel annoyed when you have status, paid for your ticket (in money or otherwise) and then get passed for an upgrade, especially when it seems to happen by being friends with the staff. They should realize that this reflects negatively on the airline even when they are within their rights to do so.

This seems to me an obvious proposition: if there are going to be upgrades, they should go first to paying passengers with status (Senator or HON). We are not blind. It is easy to recognize when family members of SWISS employees are ushered into F. I have seen this more than once on long haul flights. And frankly as a Senator it offends me. That may make the staff feel good, but is not in the interest of the business. Treating loyal customers well is what solidifies the business.

Treating loyal customers well is what solidifies the business.

Fully agree. I stopped flying alitalia 4 years ago because I found annoying seeing friends of staff being upgraded, skipping lines at boarding etc..
Since then I have flown an average of 10 times/year between US and Europe with LH and LX. So far I've enjoyed some good german discipline and, as Senator, some well deserved upgrades :)

It needs to be underlined that LX F-cl is taboo for (the regular) LX Staff! There's choice between Y-cl or C-cl. And even if you have a positive space C-cl ticket, staff can only be downgraded to Y-cl or offloaded.

It's only the arrogance of the pilots that request that their loved-ones have to be seated in F-cl. Also happens, if their Y- or C-cl seat are not needed. Last minute seat changes (after aircraft door closed) are very common, as ground staff would not upgrade them. Same happens for family and friends of the crew...

@ LukasVIE

If you gut all your papers from your current employer, I'd file a complaint throught the SEN-channels...
Don't expect you can change something, nowadays you can be happy if you get an answer from LX!

And frankly as a Senator it offends me.I'm curious. If the MdC came up to you, a SEN seated in C, and asked you "Sir, we have one more pax we need a seat for. I can offer you to move to the F cabin, but you will be limited in your meal and beverage choices to whatever the other passengers there don't want" - would you accept?

Because in a situation as described by the OP, this is exactly what you would have gotten. @:-)

Finally, keep in mind that the OP in this situation was not a SEN, but a US Airways award redeemer. If a revenue passenger would have been upgraded, it would not have been him.

Well I do not think that catering was a problem because during our short conversation he offered me an on-board upgrade for thousands of euros.

I did not ask why I did not get the upgrade but asked why staff members and not other frequent flyers on-board got it (I saw lots of SEN's and other *G at boarding). I know that on an award ticket my priority is pretty low.

To answer your question I would probably have said yes, but it doesn't really matter.

I'm curious. If the MdC came up to you, a SEN seated in C, and asked you "Sir, we have one more pax we need a seat for. I can offer you to move to the F cabin, but you will be limited in your meal and beverage choices to whatever the other passengers there don't want" - would you accept?

Because in a situation as described by the OP, this is exactly what you would have gotten. @:-)

Finally, keep in mind that the OP in this situation was not a SEN, but a US Airways award redeemer. If a revenue passenger would have been upgraded, it would not have been him.

I was on 4A a few months ago and a similar situation was handled a lot better:

Boarding was almost completed when 4DG where moved to F by the MC, and a minute later, 4DG were occupied by 2 staff.
All was done discreetly and although I would of course have preferred if I could have moved up front, I was fine with it.

What Lukas has observed is not acceptable in my opinion. I'm not aware of Swiss's internal procedures, but I believe the same as Air Rarotonga does: This is very likely not according to the rules, and the MC certainly knew the rules exactly. The reaction of the MC makes me believe so even more.
My "educated guess" is that staff on "space available" tickets may travel in Y or C (or a jumpseat) but F is off limits, which also explains why ground staff have not been seen doing this.
If there is no seat in Y or C, then staff stay behind.

If the MC is weak and upgrades people for free just to make his life easy and he believes he does a good job, he's not acting in the interest of his employer which would prefer to sell those seats and not make people in higher classes feel foolish for paying to sit where they are.

I would definitely report the issue, so in case this was not according to procedure, the MC will be told clearly what he's allowed to do and what not.


Ahh....almost forgot: Yes, there is always the "reasons you don't know" argument, which is used by the crew to justify that they're above the law.
Of course there are reasons I don't know. In fact, there are probably around 160 reasons in an A340 and 180 reasons in an A330 to upgrade someone from Y to C.

But really - how many of those suuuuuuper good reasons did not exist 5 minutes ago when people where still at the gate and any credit card would have done the trick?

In my book:
10% of on board upgrades may make some sense for Swiss.
90% of on board upgrades are pure nepotism/favoritism

Well I do not think that catering was a problem because during our short conversation he offered me an on-board upgrade for thousands of euros.Aha - that's interesting. So it does indeed look as if the F cabin was fully catered. In which case I agree that revenue, elite passengers from C should have been upgraded instead of "friends & family".

This being said, filing a compaint as a non-affected bystander (as the OP would not have been op-upgraded on a US reward) still feels a bit too self-righteous to me. But a comment on the MdC's crude way of handling the issue does not.

(On a personal note, there have been cases where I was a revenue, elite pax and "friends & family" of crew members at the same time, and was given an operational upgrade. Once, a fellow passenger who observed the process raised the issue with the MdC, who very calmly and politely pointed out that the pick had been made based on my status, which was superior to the other passenger's. I still felt put on the spot.)

I agree with the last reply it is amazing to see how irregular the service is on LX flight.
I am a senator, 50K away of HON status and since the beginning of the year I fly between 2 to 3 times long haul LX mostly to JHB and NBO.
Since Jan except when flying in FC I was greeted maybe 2 times max onboard.
Not to mention the quality of everything on the JHB ZHR route.


Anyway back to the topic it is really useless to pursue the situation as even if you were HON and a full fair paying passenger they will just let the matter die. As it is strictly impossible to reach a person (except maybe you a swiss employee) who can make a decision the only way to contact them on such matter is via the form that are not even read most of the time, so if you have time to loose knock yourself up!
Anyway I am not surprised by the way the MdC address the matter and in my opinion even if it is not really your business it is ok to ask the question and if the MdC was very defensive it is of course because it is normally against swiss policy to give away upgrades to non paying passenger and they give upgrades only if the flight is overbooked and they upgrades the highest fares pax with the higher status. In the case non paying pax are stealing upgrades away from full paying pax I think it is unacceptable but it is always happening especially if they are related to the captain don't forget he is the only master onboard after god!

This "You are Mr. XXX and work for LX" sounds like the MdC felt caught in the first place and tried to intimidate the OP, this alone would be reason enough for me to file a major complaint, regardless of the comment that the OP made regarding the upgrading.

No matter what the situatiion, the F cabin should always be off-limits for non-rev employees and/or their friends and family members (and BTW shouldn't be mistaken for the crew-rest area as well).

Completely unnecessary and pretentious behavior. Unprofessional and bad for the company.

Priority for loyal customers. Always. Period.

This "You are Mr. XXX and work for LX" sounds like the MdC felt caught in the first place and tried to intimidate the OP, this alone would be reason enough for me to file a major complaint, regardless of the comment that the OP made regarding the upgrading.

Don't forget that OP was at that time also LX employee (or working for LX). Considering that ha also said he was leaving LX soon, I can smell a rat here...

You can report the case but if you are really an LX employee, you will just look ridiculous.

I Know for a fact that all LX captains, when holding business class stand by ticket, can ask for a last minute free upgrade to first class for them AND/OR THEIR FAMILLY (if seats are available of course), and that they have, in this case, priority over rev passengers. It is in their contracts. Period

You can report the case but if you are really an LX employee, you will just look ridiculous.

As I was sitting in business class recently, i talked with the mâitre de cabine about the new first class on the A330. She told me then that she could rarely enjoy it, unlike the LX captains, who, when holding business class stand by ticket, can ask for a last minute free upgrade to first class for them AND/OR THEIR FAMILLY (if seats are available of course), and that they have, if I recall correctly, in this case, priority over rev passengers. It is in their contracts. Period.

You can report the case but if you are really an LX employee, you will just look ridiculous.


Interesting view.

I don't understand what would make the OP look ridiculous.

In my view, it would help the company to ensure integrity and consistency. I'm rather happy that the company I work for puts quite some effort into encouraging everyone to observe rules and not to tolerate people bending or ignoring them. Even if the MC was observing rules - which again, I don't believe - it wouldn't be ridiculous to report the somewhat strange reaction by the MC, which may at least boarder on intimidation.

On a side note: I think there's a little difference between "knowing for a fact" about upgrading rules as you say in your first post, and "being told by an MC" in your second post.
Who knows what captains have in their contract, and I doubt our Swiss Lurker is going to reveal that here. Even if that is the case, it would be handled at checkin or at the gate, and then it's an entitlement which is part of the captains remuneration package and I wouldn't worry about it too much.
But such cases would certainly not be dealt with on board, which is the topic at hand.

On a side note: I think there's a little difference between "knowing for a fact" about upgrading rules as you say in your first post, and "being told by an MC" in your second post.


This is the reason why I have edited my post. I realised this information might not be 100% accurate, even if I am pretty sure the MdC told me the truth.

Hi fellow flyertalkers,

I just wanted to thank you for all of the comments in this thread.

I will keep you updated should I decide to pursue this matter!

I'm always surprised how different the crews are on LX. From super nice and attentive to arrogant and ignorant. It's like playing roulette. Cannot understand that they cannot bring in some stability.

I also noticed that crews tend to favor their own people. Basically I don't mind however if it is too obvious I can understand it can upset paying clients, specially on SEN/HON level. Still personally I would have not confronted the MdC, just does not make sense -- as the result Lukas experienced proves.

I would only be upset (and maybe complain) if I pay an F ticket and the crew brings some noisy upgraded friends to F. In such a case I would feel kind of cheated.

I fully agree with you - the flight crew is a very important issue. Unfortunately, the crews are often very different in their behavoir. Well, there should be a constant service level, it is one of their things they have to learn, as well as Lufthansa. I don`t think its the best way to favor own swiss people and upgrade them in First.

I have experience of this issue with a few other airlines. NZ staff are not allowed to provide closed-door upgrades to family and colleagues, to the point where doing so is managed through internal disciplinary processes. Staff or family may purchase upgrades but these must be allocated by ground staff not cabin crew.

On BA it appears to be something of a free-for-all, to the point where (and I have seen this on many occasions first hand) it seems that the CSM upgrades anyone on a staff ticket after the door has closed. That may not quite be the case but it is my perception. The F cabin on all the F flights I have taken has been at least 50% occupied by staff/friends/family. And yes, it is strikingly obvious, yes I have complained, both on-board and to customer relations, and I was told that it was none of my business. I disagree in that it cheapens the exclusivity of the premium products and makes me less likely to pay for a ticket in F... surely they should be concerned about that.

Whenever anybody says " None of your Business" I always respond, I'm a Significant Shareholder and you are an employee..so YES it is my Business.

I just flew CPH-ZRH and ZRH-GRU (as a revenue passenger) in C and on both legs the cabin was full of staff or relatives who were obviously upgraded. Personally, I don't mind about company policies offering such perks, but I was quite annoyed by the quite large number of "upgraders" and the fact that the operating staff seemed more pre-occupied on attending to them. Overall, the service on the long-haul leg was rather lack luster, e.g. food was served first without any drinks, they forgot the 2nd hot towel service before breakfast.

Whenever anybody says " None of your Business" I always respond, I'm a Significant Shareholder and you are an employee..so YES it is my Business.

I like it! ^

I just flew CPH-ZRH and ZRH-GRU (as a revenue passenger) in C and on both legs the cabin was full of staff or relatives who were obviously upgraded. Personally, I don't mind about company policies offering such perks, but I was quite annoyed by the quite large number of "upgraders" and the fact that the operating staff seemed more pre-occupied on attending to them. Overall, the service on the long-haul leg was rather lack luster, e.g. food was served first without any drinks, they forgot the 2nd hot towel service before breakfast.

Don't get me wrong, if Swiss wants to upgrade non-revs over their their most valuable revenue passengers, it is their choice. While it is a poor economical decision, I have no probelm with this, because I can chose to fly another airline if it bothers me.
However, I would report bad behavior to Swiss. It's one thing to OPUP non-revs, but they are supposed to be the last ones served (e.g. all other passengers get their first choices before they get to pick) and FAs should take care of revenue passengers with priority over friends and family. I was once on a flight with a very large misbehaving group of employees (e.g. on their phone during takeoff etc.); I definitely took the time to write it in with seat numbers etc. It's the only way to address such situations.

I like it! ^

When I am in a non-diplomatic mode (increasingly so with morally corrupt flight crews upping their mates), I am more direct than 'UncleDude', post 33.
I simply say:
"It is very much my business. The fare I paid for this flight is equivalent to a large part of your salary and while I fully respect and fight for your labour rights, your choices just now are wrong. I shall not co-pay your salary next month. Now, please do your work."

It is saddening to see so many comments on this plague now afflicting the beloved LX. Is nothing sacred?

- Paul
(LX Lurker: pls contact me)

I simply say:
"It is very much my business. The fare I paid for this flight is equivalent to a large part of your salary and while I fully respect and fight for your labour rights, your choices just now are wrong. I shall not co-pay your salary next month. Now, please do your work."
Unfortunately it will not work in this particular case since the OP was travelling on an award ticket.

Whenever anybody says " None of your Business" I always respond, I'm a Significant Shareholder and you are an employee..so YES it is my Business.

Nice. But those weren't the exact words, but that was the message. If they had used those words, my politeness would also have reduced accordingly...

I agree that it was handled poorly, but not sure I agree that passengers should get upgrades before staff.

The point has been made that there may have been inadequate catering, in which case I think the airline is entitled to protect the integrity of their service and limit additional passengers to staff, who can't complain.

Even where if there was adequate catering, it should be cheaper to move staff up. Typically staff know that they can't get all benefits, they shouldn't take washbags and should limit alcohol consumption.

From a commercial perspective. I also think that there are disadvantages in upgrading, it builds expectation that upgrades happen, so why pay.

Finally most industries/businesses offer staff some perks. I don't see why airline staff should be denied such rewards too.

But delivering what customers have paid for should come first. Any upgrades should also be done as discretely as possible.

Finally most industries/businesses offer staff some perks. I don't see why airline staff should be denied such rewards too.

Because in most industries the perks are not visible for the paying customers, or at least don't affect paying customers. Something that's not the case here.
The OP, as a paying customer although payment was in miles, could have had an upgrade. Or even a full fare customer....

And I think it quite clear that all assumptions about the catering are just to justify this scenario. Nobody would turn down a seat upgrade, even when they would still have catering from the other class. But most likely there was plenty of catering aboard...

Because in most industries the perks are not visible for the paying customers, or at least don't affect paying customers. Something that's not the case here.

If you read my post properly you will see I agreed that the onboard handling was poor.


The OP, as a paying customer although payment was in miles, could have had an upgrade. Or even a full fare customer....

Why could he have had an upgrade? I don't understand this sense of passenger entitlement for something they haven't paid for. My experience is that the airlines that do upgrade in this way, are typically sub-par.

What the airline does with their empty seats is their business. But, as above, agree, if its handled poorly, it irritates passengers which is not good for their business.


And I think it quite clear that all assumptions about the catering are just to justify this scenario. Nobody would turn down a seat upgrade, even when they would still have catering from the other class. But most likely there was plenty of catering aboard...

I'm sure most passengers would accept it, but I don't see why that adds to the argument that airlines should offer upgrades to passengers over staff. You have more control over staff and upgrading them should cause less problems and less upgrades should discourage people from expecting something for nothing.

And I think it quite clear that all assumptions about the catering are just to justify this scenario. Nobody would turn down a seat upgrade, even when they would still have catering from the other class. But most likely there was plenty of catering aboard...

I heard once a station manager told someone at the gate that they cannot do a F upgrade because of missing catering. He said it's LX policy. Don't know if that policy really exists but at least it sounds reasonable. If someone gets an official upgrade he should be able to enjoy the product without limitations.

The European airlines clearly have a model which does not follow the US something for nothing. Basically no major FFPs offer a right to an upgrade a la US. As such the sense of entitlment is clearly belongs with the staff!

From a revenue perspective it makes a lot more sense to offer it to the highest tier FFP member and/or highest booking class.

From a revenue perspective it makes a lot more sense to offer it to the highest tier FFP member and/or highest booking class.

That sounds like logic developed on the basis of what you want to believe, rather than what the reality is.

I don't see how upgrading passengers will generate extra revenue. At the time of the flight, upgarding pax will lead to increased consumption and cost, non-rev passengers who can have their consumption restricted (champagne, wahbags etc) will be cheaper.

Longer-term, upgarding may have an impact on F ticket sales, people may buy J in the hope of F, or resist paying F as they know it is routinely given away to others (so not worth the money).

More generally, if you look at the profiability of carriers that more actively upgrade compared to those that do it only when necessary, it appears that those that don't upgrade are routinely in a stronger financial position.

From a revenue perspective it makes a lot more sense to offer it to the highest tier FFP member and/or highest booking class.

Not sure I understand this.

There was some character crowing in this forum about his evidence-based Y to C upgrades on around half his LH transatlantic flights. Which was great for him, but the expectation of travel in comfort-class for a Y fare is clearly not going to benefit the airline's revenue.

There's a pretty clear distinction between using very occasional upgrades as an incentive, and the revenue dilution created by the US airlines approach to upgrades.

I am not familiar with the details of Swiss, but with SAS you can purchase a staff ticket (non-revenue) in C class. In this case it's not a matter of upgrading the non-rev, but the non-rev passenger actually has a ticket for the cabin.

I know that it is possible for SK staff to purchase such tickets on other airlines, e.g. Lufthansa. So it's likely that Swiss has a similar system. F class is of course another matter.

As an (until fairly recently) reasonably heavy user of LX long-haul (2-3 R/T per month) I reckon I've had my fair share of C-F op-ups (approx 1 in 3 hit rate) mainly on ZRH - ORD and ZRH - HKG) but have never particularly noticed a lot of non-rev upgrades. LH on the other hand....

I've also never noticed any under catering - is this restricited to specific routes?

I am just coming back from a US trip with KLM in business.

I always try to talk with the purser and this flight (outbound) wasn't an exception. During the chat i tried to lead her on employee benefits. She told me then that at KLM, if an upgrade has to be made, the staff members come always BEFORE rev-passengers. The reason is that passengers, in this case, will not pray and hope for an upgrade, but pay the C ticket to make sure they sit in the front cabin. Again, not sure if it is true but it make sense, actually, from the economic point of view.

So I just wanted to give you a short update:

I decided to send an email to customers service about two weeks ago explaining the matter.

Today I got a call from them. It was acknowledged that it was AGAINST the rules and that it should not have happened. I was told that the respective organizational unit has been informed and that there will be a follow-up on this incident.

I am very happy about this resolution and I was also offered miles as compensation which I declined.

So what I would say is that everyone who witnesses such an incident should not be afraid to report it. It will actually help SWISS to improve its product and to sanction behavior like upgrading staff against the rules.

Thumbs up for SWISS customer service! This is how it should be done! ^

It was acknowledged that it was AGAINST the rules and that it should not have happened. I was told that the respective organizational unit has been informed and that there will be a follow-up on this incident.

So what I would say is that everyone who witnesses such an incident should not be afraid to report it. It will actually help SWISS to improve its product and to sanction behavior like upgrading staff against the rules.


I was on a flight to HKG last week in F and after the doors were closed, a Gentleman was brought forward by a FA to take the last free seat. It was apparent that it was her boyfriend / husband.

Personally I would never report anything like this and why should I? Its not really any of my business what they do after the doors are closed and the seat would have stayed empty otherwise. It was also done very discreetly. Service was not any worse with him being there and I got all the meal choices. In total the upgrading did certainly not affect my flight experience at all.

So I don't understand how it would "improve the product" if I were to report things like this happening? :confused: But this is just me I guess.

Well, maybe this is just me but acting against clearly established rules bothers me.

Also, I would imagine that if the MdC does it once, it is very likely that he will do it again. And next time it could be 2 people or 3 people. At which point is that still not "bothering" you? As paying First Class passenger I would probably rethink spending thousands of Euros for this kind of "exclusivity", but again, this is my opinion and I accept yours.

I was on a flight to HKG last week in F and after the doors were closed, a Gentleman was brought forward by a FA to take the last free seat. It was apparent that it was her boyfriend / husband.

Personally I would never report anything like this and why should I? Its not really any of my business what they do after the doors are closed and the seat would have stayed empty otherwise. It was also done very discreetly. Service was not any worse with him being there and I got all the meal choices. In total the upgrading did certainly not affect my flight experience at all.

So I don't understand how it would "improve the product" if I were to report things like this happening? :confused: But this is just me I guess.

Kudos to the OP for contacting customer services and for declining the compensation. ^

The incident may not have affected the OP but it was clearly against the rules and if everyone condones such an incident it could be the start of a slippery slope.

Well, maybe this is just me but acting against clearly established rules bothers me.

Also, I would imagine that if the MdC does it once, it is very likely that he will do it again. And next time it could be 2 people or 3 people. At which point is that still not "bothering" you? As paying First Class passenger I would probably rethink spending thousands of Euros for this kind of "exlusivity", but again, this is my opinion and I accept yours.

No thats fine, I can understand your argument. I guess to me the practice of upgrading is fine as long as I still get what I paid for (or in this case upgraded for :p).

Just out of curiosity, where do you stop reacting? Do you point out other passengers who carry more than 1/2 hand luggage pieces to ground staff or do you call the police when other people are speeding? Clearly they are not following established rules either. Do you always follow every established rule? ;) --> Dont answer, I am just joking!

Kudos to the OP for contacting customer services and for declining the compensation. ^

The incident may not have affected the OP but it was clearly against the rules and if everyone condones such an incident it could be the start of a slippery slope.

+ 1 ^