United MileagePlus (Consolidated) - (Call Complete) I have a call w/ Martin Hand SVP Customer Experience this week.Topics

I just got an email from Martin Hand, SVP Customer Service @ United asking if I am free this week to chat on the phone.

I sent him the same note I emailed 1K Voice about why I accepted a status match from AA to EXP and why I am leaving United.

He wants to discuss the challenges.

I am VERY impressed with United that after a Premier Line agent personally called me 2 weeks ago to talk, that now the SVP of Customer Service for the world's largest airline wants to talk. It shows tremendous hope that they are listening.

Let me know if there are specific (Serious) issues you would like me to raise. I suspect the call won't go more than 10 minutes. So I need to stay focused.

We all LOVE/LOVED United. Let's help Martin make it great again!

:-: Moderator Edit -- TIMOS's report from the call is on this post. (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/18924671-post427.html) :-:

What a great opportunity! I would bring up the first class meal cutoff times. After the merger, the cutoff times for meals has become extremely stringent, and a bit ridiculous. For 2-3 hour flights, lunch is only served on flights departing between 11 AM and 1 PM and dinner between the hours of 5 and 7 PM. I recently flew on two flights to Florida, one departing at 10:50 AM, and the other at 1:05 PM, and both missed the cutoff for a meal. On a three hour flight, this is not acceptable, and it is not what the competition does, either. The same goes for dinner – a flight leaving at 7:05 PM should be eligible. It seemed as if the pre-merger CO was just more logical and allowed for flexibility.

Not sure how to pose this as a question, but I would like some clarification on what the UA CFO meant by elites being "over entitled". I have always been loyal to UA and even since 3/3 I've pretty much rolled with the changes that "I am supposed to like". But when I heard that remark it crystalized what the new UA seems to be all about, and has me thinking seriously, for the first time, about moving my business to DL or AA. In fact I've already taken a couple of non-UA flights just to test the waters.

(that remark really stuck in my craw, and I have thought about it every time I have flown UA)

1. Selling of upgrades for less than fare difference while 1k's are on the waitlist for complimentary upgrades. I have no problem if UA sells a upgrade for the fare difference but anything less devalues the benefits of being an elite.

2. the W fare for systemwides requirement. Back when this went into effect only S was below W on international routes (in 2004). The fare difference was about $20-75 each way between S (the lowest fare) and W(SWU upgradable). Since 2004 UA has added K, T, L, and G which essentially made the W fare now a M fare back when the rule was put in place. Why UA expects a customer who flies 100K a year to pay hundreds for a chance at an upgrade when a general member can buy that same upgrade for a few hundred dollars at check in puzzles me. AA gave me 8 on any fare, hence I gave them 60k miles in business already.

3. A 1K Million mile flyer who flew 10k each quarter (100k total for the year) under the old program earned 10 regionals. Currently they earn 4 if they fly 100k in a year, that too sucks especially when this 1K has flown with a general member who got a $119 upgrade offer at check in and I never cleared.

4. Irregular ops are a mess, even for 1k's.

I sent him the same note I emailed 1K Voice about why I accepted a status match from AA to EXP and why I am leaving United.

He wants to discuss the challenges.


Challenges? AA did a flat out status match.... it's not a challenge. That's why hordes are leaving (or have left) United! D'uh.

How about asking why government Y fares are eligible for instant upgrades? This has had an enormous impact on upgrades out of IAD.

Agree on the F service. The meal time cutoffs are ridiculous and the snack is tiring and appearing on way too many flights, including some long hauls.

Remember when PS redeyes used to have special snacks like fruit and cheese? No more.

My recommendations in order of priority:
1. The staggering increase in Delays/cancellations/IRROPs meltdowns
2. 1K no longer singled out for loyalty, now just "part of the elites"
3. Upgrade priority/TODs/shenanigans (Gov. fares trumping elites, mileage kettle trumping elites)
4. F Class Meals / cut off times
5. Customer service response times via email

Let us know how the call went. Thanks for the opportunity for us to give some input OP

Good luck with the call ^ Given that he's from the CO side of the operation, I hope he takes the time to address your concerns, and not just blow them off, or say that you're over-entitled.

Sounds like a good opportunity. Not sure why Mr. Hand has to wait until someone actually leaves before following up.

Please ask when UA will fix the random seat changes on PNRs when SHARES auto-splits PNRs 24 prior to travel. This has been a major concern for me especially when traveling with the family.

I have sent multiple emails to UA, Mr. Hand's office, customer service, and executive services with no replies (almost 6 weeks now with no answer). Before 3/3, I was able to speak with someone. After 3/3, no one cares. Another reason for me to switch to AA as well because they do care about their elites.

This would be an easy fix: change the current system of SWU(GPU) early deposit to the old UA system: can get some early on request, or all deposit in the next year and are good till next year+1 month.
. OR, to make us happy, let them deposit early, but stay good till next year+1month!

I wouldn't waste time speaking of specific items unless it is *your* pet peeve after all you got the call scheduled. I would hate to give him the chance to avoid the big picture and focus on a little minutia. United is an average product and has nothing really great or poor about it. Star Alliance is good but that's it.

For me, flying loyalty was about gaining privileges and making things easier ... so why are they doing the exact opposite? I would ask him why do they deserve (expect?) the same loyalty if they are reducing the benefits of that loyalty.

Too bad that airline loyalty poll came out before the merger ... I would bet that United will not win for a 9th year unless something drastic happens.

My list:

1. Upgrades, specifically:
a. ToDs: Upgrades at check in for less than the true fare difference. It's being offered, no question about it.
b. YCAs: Government fares to/from IAD are killing upgrade rates for non government pax. The $313 each way IAD-LAX YCA is my favorite example. There are tons of published fares on the route much more expensive than this.

2. Treatment for top elites, specifically that dedicated check in, security, and boarding for 1Ks/GS/F is gone. The current 'all elites are equal' means that no one is elite. The comments from the CFO certainly don't help here.

3. Hard service cuts, specifically:
a. Major midcon meal devaluations, even from the PMUA standard (dinner=lunch, breakfast sandwitch, etc)
b. Meal windows are sort of laughable at this point
c. Pillows in F
d. Fewer CR1s

It shows tremendous hope that they are listening.

Don't know if your getting the same SVP chinatraderjmr had a conversation with: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/united-mileageplus-consolidated/1344341-after-long-debate-refunded-132-000-tkts-today.html

If so, expect that they will listen, but probably not resolve much (see post#236 for his recap).

Might want to consider asking when/how "they" will start communicating anything (programs, changes to the programs, what they are working on for changes we will like, etc) out to the various, and maybe even targeted groups of the FFP. Any message they could send would be better than everyone on this board speculating as to what the silence means.

Big picture, what's the plan and strategy to provide Customer Service to their Elite and non-Elite customers? Who do they want to emulate (so we know what that looks like), what's the plan to get there and when does he see that being accomplished?

And, lastly SHARES. What's the short term and long term plan for that platform. 7 hour waits in a Customer Service line for IRROPS is beyond the call of duty and will minimize/neutralize almost all else they could do from a Customer Service perspective.

Not sure what difference the conversation will make; I guess it's ok to be cautiously optimisitc (or is that hope springs eternal)?

Some things that's been nagging me (in addition to some that have already been mentioned):

1) The T-24 cutoff for applying upgrades... those of us who fly at the last minute are likely paying the most for the fare, and we wind up not even being able to apply for an upgrade is adding salt on the wound (considering that only middle seats are usually left anyways).

2) Related to the upgrade is the screwy way the waitlist - standby upgrade list does not work right (i.e. names dropping off waitlist and never showing up on the standby list @ < T-24)

3) What is United's plan on getting their employees recharged about working @ UA? Let's face it, the SHARES migration has caused so many issues and demoralized both customers and employees. Besides the FASTSHARES (whenever that will be) and the ill-conceived "drawing" for good customer service, what is going to be done to get the beaten down moral back up (yes, I know there is no point or hope for some employees, but I truly believe some of the employees I meet would rise back to the challenge of being a customer friendly attitude).

4) SHARES... please fix it or dump it, please...

Let me know if there are specific (Serious) issues you would like me to raise. I suspect the call won't go more than 10 minutes. So I need to stay focused.


I agree with many of the issues raised so far, but I would ask him this:

How and when are they going to fix the computer system so that we, as FF's, can calmly rely on a smooth operational experience without having to factor in extra time at the airport "in case the system messes something up"? Yesterday I had to go to LAX early because the system would not check in my daughter on-line, saying a flight coupon was "missing" on her return to the East Coast. When we got there, the system was saying that I had bought a paper ticket on Expedia! (I bought, as I always do, an e-ticket on united.com to get the 5-dollar United Club credit). Only because I am 1K were we able to go into a short premium line to get it straightened out, but that took 10 minutes of waiting in line plus 25 minutes of puzzlement and calling for help at the desk by a very competent GA. This is probably the 4th or 5th time since 3/3 that something strange has happened with a reservation -- they were all fixed, but only after a lot of time spent at the counter or on the phone.

So the issue I would raise is: when and how are they going to show us that we can have operational confidence in the IT systems? If I have to show up 30+ minutes early for every flight, or spend half hours or more on the phone at random, that is dozens and dozens of hours per year and -- just as important -- robs me of my usual Zen-like calmness during travel. It is that as much as the other specific problems that has caused the experience to deteriorate for me to the point that American has resumed its place as my primary airline for now (I took 1 AA flight all year in 2011 and have taken 10 AA flights since May 1 this year).

P.S. -- you might want to also add to the laundry list the rule forcing us to take our SWU's when we cross 100k instead of allowing us to wait. I am sitting at 95k but still haven't successfully used any of last year's SWU's which don't expire until November (partly coz of system problems on their end). So I am actively avoiding ringing up that last 5k of mileage until as late in the year as possible. The rule disincentivizes my UA travel at the exact time that AA is heavily courting my business.

I just got an email from Martin Hand, SVP Customer Service @ United asking if I am free this week to chat on the phone.

I sent him the same note I emailed 1K Voice about why I accepted a status match from AA to EXP and why I am leaving United.

He wants to discuss the challenges.

I am VERY impressed with United that after a Premier Line agent personally called me 2 weeks ago to talk, that now the SVP of Customer Service for the world's largest airline wants to talk. It shows tremendous hope that they are listening.

Let me know if there are specific (Serious) issues you would like me to raise. I suspect the call won't go more than 10 minutes. So I need to stay focused.

We all LOVE/LOVED United. Let's help Martin make it great again!

My dad received an email from him a couple of days ago. He seems to be respoding to customers personally these days.

i miss the cheeseburger in Y. :D

since he's SVP of customer experience, the biggest issue i always have with UA is the front line staff. it's so hit or miss, but what gets me is when it misses whether it's a GA, ticket agent or FA, the rude ones are shockingly rude. things like SHARES screwups, hard product malfunctions, bad policies and all that other stuff is annoying when it goes wrong for sure. but even if the system renders them helpless, if the front line staff gives some sort of effort and returns the politeness i show them with politeness i think it would go a very long way. i grow tired of front line staff that treats me like a burden and an annoyance when all i did was be polite to them.

rude front line staff creates a bad customer experience and if i was him i'd lay the smackdown on that.

Don't get bogged down in the details. The real reason we have all accepted the AA match is higher level -- as is any fix for UA. My advice is to make is more for him to tell you what's going on. That will inform your decision about switching.

If your sense is that they are happy, and that everything is on track to run like they want/expect (once the obvious bugs are fixed), then AA sounds really good. If your sense is that they may actually change some of what you don't like, then maybe UA still makes sense.

He already must know all the details about the AA match and how much better being an EXP is than being 1K as of 3/3. He's on a listening tour, which is probably designed to let folks vent, but we have no evidence it is about actually improving things (and by that, I mean improving things to we pmUA elites who don't like the changes; other folks may be fine, and their business model may do great by nabbing those passengers vs us... all fine, and a choice that UA is making, just a choice that makes AA and even Southwest really appealing to me now).

My questions really boil down to:

"Mr. Hand, why don't you explain to me why I should stick with UA? What is going to change? Don't the philosophical/business approach changes made by the CO management group conflict with what pmUA flyers expected (and what we can get from AA)? (And route network, Star Alliance, and big new plane don't count as answers, because we already know the value of *A, etc.. this is more about corporate philosophy.)"

(1) The new UA has made a choice to focus on leisure and non-elite flyers (taking away elite perks, MM program, TOD upgrades, SWU roulette, etc). Based on that decision, which may very well be a solid business decision for the new UA (I don't think so, but who am I?), why should frequent flyers and elites stay with UA (other than when price is lowest)?

(2) Staff that are not empowered to really help elites are, perhaps, symbolic, of the new UA approach (based on what I know of the old CO approach). This is in contrast to the amazing level of service I used to get on UA and now get whenever interacting with AA. How will this be remedied? Assuming everyone finally learns SHARES and the SHARES bugs are worked out, will front line staff be given more authority? If not, why should an elite stay with UA?

(3) Who is being held accountable for all the problems with system integration, SHARES, lost seats, upgrades not working how we're told they should, lost seats, deleted reservations, etc, etc. I assume they will get fixed, but meanwhile does the new UA hold anyone accountable, and if so how? As a customer, knowing that my service provider believes in quality and service -- and hold their staff to that -- means a lot to me. Without that, how can I believe problems in the future won't be allowed like today? What shouldn't an elite switch, at least until UA gets things fixed, and then consider returning based on what the new UA philosophy/value is vs AA?

--Arun

I would not tell him about your connection with FlyerTalk, the key is to speak as little as possible and let him do most of the talking - the more someone talks, the more information they give out, just like he did with chinatraderjmr

Everyone has their own issues as you can see, but ultimately it's your personal reason(s) why you left. I think it's great you asked your fellow FT members for recommendations, that's awesome. ^^

The most effective way to get answers is through your own personal grievances, IMHO.

I wonder what kind of call you will get - it will be interesting.

Thanks for sharing!

UG

I won't belabor this, but I'm getting pretty tired of hearing "Look! We have the 787, Economy Plus, and the largest network" as the only positive talking point.

It's CULTURE that matters. If, for example, I'm on a direct flight and feel that I'm being treated like garbage as someone who spends 5 figures a year on flgihts, I'll take the connection (in DFW, I might add *hint hint*) and fly somewhere I'd feel more appreciated.

My questions really boil down to: Mr. Hand, why don't you explain to me why I should stick with UA? What is going to change? Don't the philosophical/business approach changes made by the CO management group conflict with what pmUA flyers expected?


I have a feeling he is going to re-emphasize the main message -
"We have the best route network and the 787."

Duh ;)

1kvoice takes almost one month to respond, and this is not acceptable.

When are they going to replace SHARES?

Don't get bogged down in the details.

My questions really boil down to: Mr. Hand, why don't you explain to me why I should stick with UA? What is going to change? Don't the philosophical/business approach changes made by the CO management group conflict with what pmUA flyers expected?


This is brilliant thinking...yes, it is impressive to get a call from the Senior Vice President of the Kingdom of United Customer Service of one of the world's biggest airlines. Remember they need you as a customer in order for them to survive.

Don't be impressed with the big title - talk is cheap. He knows ALL the questions you are going to ask him, I will bet on it, and knows how he will respond to you.

Rather than starting out with specifics, how about saying, "Martin, you must be familiar with all the grievances and issues since you hear and read them. What steps are being done to get guys like me flying with UA again?" This may or may not throw him off, but he may give some insight not thought of before.

Then go into specifics. Don't let him control conversation - chinatraderjmr admitted to not pushing his agenda because he didn't want to.

Just remember:

1) You ARE the customer
2) Talk is cheap, what ACTIONS are they taking to change?

UG


One thing is sure, many top tier flyers must have left for them to be calling. Amazing times.

Don't get bogged down in the details. The real reason we have all accepted the AA match is higher level -- as is any fix for UA. My advice is to make is more for him to tell you what's going on. That will inform your decision about switching.

If your sense is that they are happy, and that everything is on track to run like they want/expect (once the obvious bugs are fixed), then AA sounds really good. If your sense is that they may actually change some of what you don't like, then maybe UA still makes sense.

He already must know all the details about the AA match and how much better being an EXP is than being 1K as of 3/3. He's on a listening tour, which is probably designed to let folks vent, but we have no evidence it is about actually improving things (and by that, I mean improving things to we pmUA elites who don't like the changes; other folks may be fine, and their business model may do great by nabbing those passengers vs us... all fine, and a choice that UA is making, just a choice that makes AA and even Southwest really appealing to me now).

My questions really boil down to:

"Mr. Hand, why don't you explain to me why I should stick with UA? What is going to change? Don't the philosophical/business approach changes made by the CO management group conflict with what pmUA flyers expected (and what we can get from AA)? (And route network, Star Alliance, and big new plane don't count as answers, because we already know the value of *A, etc.. this is more about corporate philosophy.)"

(1) The new UA has made a choice to focus on leisure and non-elite flyers (taking away elite perks, MM program, TOD upgrades, SWU roulette, etc). Based on that decision, which may very well be a solid business decision for the new UA (I don't think so, but who am I?), why should frequent flyers and elites stay with UA (other than when price is lowest)?

(2) Staff that are not empowered to really help elites are, perhaps, symbolic, of the new UA approach (based on what I know of the old CO approach). This is in contrast to the amazing level of service I used to get on UA and now get whenever interacting with AA. How will this be remedied? Assuming everyone finally learns SHARES and the SHARES bugs are worked out, will front line staff be given more authority? If not, why should an elite stay with UA?

(3) Who is being held accountable for all the problems with system integration, SHARES, lost seats, upgrades not working how we're told they should, lost seats, deleted reservations, etc, etc. I assume they will get fixed, but meanwhile does the new UA hold anyone accountable, and if so how? As a customer, knowing that my service provider believes in quality and service -- and hold their staff to that -- means a lot to me. Without that, how can I believe problems in the future won't be allowed like today? What shouldn't an elite switch, at least until UA gets things fixed, and then consider returning based on what the new UA philosophy/value is vs AA?

--Arun

I seldom make this kind of post but a big +1.

This captures the crux of matters. Why should a high revenue FF pick UA given their apparent philosophy. All the details aside this is the question they ultimately need to answer. There might be many ways to skin the cat in terms of benefits, service, bug fixes, etc. - all are important but the real question is whether UA has an operational customer service philosophy that will be supportive of the changes they need to make to get UA back to being a desirable choice for the elite flyer.

4) SHARES... please fix it or dump it, please...

Agree. The new United still hasn't gotten this right. I will freely admit that PMUA didn't have this right either. However, the new United seems to have slipped below PMUA in terms of customer service issues related to travel (ie rebooking during IIROPS, getting flights out on time, etc...).

The new United should set its first goal to get back to the PMUA standard of flight operations service.

My dad received an email from him a couple of days ago. He seems to be respoding to customers personally these days. All the ETC issuance / apology emails are signed "Martin Hand." That doesn't mean it's a personal message.

My dad received an email from him a couple of days ago. He seems to be respoding to customers personally these days.

This means there must have been HUGE number of people that have left UA for them to be doing this, otherwise they would not care if it was just a few. Like an F/A stated to a member here, she seeing less and less 1Ks on her flights.

PS There may be a dozen "Martin Hands" by the way.

Please remind him to think outside the CO box.

If it were me, I would start with the high level before diving down into the specifics.

At a high level:

UA has made a dramatic shift in the wrong direction in understanding the needs of the business traveler, which is what most 1K's are. The business traveler is concerned with: productivity; minimizing the impact of business travel to work/life balance; and ensuring that we arrive on time to/from business meetings with as little disruption as possible. Many of the recent policy changes, whether a result of SHARES or not, seem to ignore these needs.

Driving that down to specifics:
1. 1K business travelers have less control to prioritize which flights they are upgraded on. Proof points: fewer CR-1's, loss of priority of upgrades to casual flyers via TOS upgrades, upgrades not clearing, SWU issued when reaching 100k versus at the beginning of the year, etc.
2. 1K business travelers require more unproductive time pre-departure than before. Proof points: loss of dedicated check-in facilities, loss of red carpet, reservation screw-ups, etc.
3. 1K business travelers are less protected during IRROPS and spend more time attempting to rebook and find alternate routes than before. Proof points: less dedicated experienced agents, longer hold times, lack of flexibility in SHARES, less "doing whatever is necessary" to help the 1K flyer.
4. 1K business travelers are afforded fewer simple privileges that make flying more pleasant. Proof points: meal selection, all the little things that have changed.

What this equates to is that UA does not value the 1K business flyer's time, which is one of the most important things that the business flyer cares about. Upgrades mean that the business flyer can get more work done during a flight. Less time required pre-departure means the business flyer can spend more time with her/his family. Faster resolution to IRROPS means the business flyer arrives on time to the meeting, or arrives home faster. To a casual flyer, factoring in a little more time is not as much of an issue. To a business flyer who takes 50, 100, or more flights a year, this adds up to a massive impact on quality of life and quality of work.

The last thing I would add is: does UA aim to have their international Business and First class soft products competitive with Asian and Middle East carriers? If so, how?

In addition to the above, quiting Emirates, Virgin, and Qatar is not cool at all.

I would ask him how the airline plans to "upgrade" the reservation system to prevent things like this keep happening?

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/united-mileageplus-consolidated/1359884-waited-line-7-hours-get-rebooked-after-cancellation-compensation.html

This is just a MX cancellation. God helps us when it is a region-wide WX cancellation.

We all know sh$t happen from time to time, but how the airline's ability to recover is of utmost importance. They got lucky that we had a very mild winter and not a single late winter / early spring snow storm. I could not imagine if we had one and EWR / JFK / IAD / ORD and such got shut down for a day or two... When will the management face this issue and take corrective measure before Winter of 2012?

I think I would also ask about the 1K phone line. I have been routed over seas on this line since 3/3. The quality of service and agents knowledge has dropped dramatically.The wait times are still high. What used to take a 5 -10 minute call is now 60+ mins with the agent putting us on hold 3 or 4 times throughout the call.

I have a feeling he is going to re-emphasize the main message -
"We have the best route network and the 787."

Duh ;)

A colleague flew the NRT-BOS JL nonstop 787 last week. His reaction? "It's still a 13-hour airplane ride." And he's an aviation buff.

Please remind him to think outside the CO box.

+1

SMI/J and his regime need to think outside the CO Box.

Air EWR/IAH/CLE business model does NOT work for UNITED.

As a note, Marty Hand is 25-year Continental Airlines veteran. So he will be walking into this with a Continental perspective.

I really liked your points from your original post. I wouldn't change a thing. My only tweak would be making your last point your first.

My email explained MY personal issues with the "new United"

- TOD upgrades to general members, un-transperent comp upgrade system
- W fare lottery upgrade; paying up to $1000 to play the upgrade lottery
- 50% RDM cut to Premier Gold level
- No dedicated 1K check in lines
- Lost seats, reservations, GPU's in new shares system
- Rude, indifferent staff and every touch point: phone, check in, gate, FA's
- Nickel & diming: no pillows in domstic F, terrible food, F customers having to pat for E snack boxes
- Dated Clubs with terrible food options
- And most importantly - and I stressed this - the overall feeling that since 3/3 United just does not care about loyalty. I've flown UA almost exclusively for 7 years now - and I just get the feeling they don't care, and staff are rude, indifferent, lazy and have a general "I dont care" attitude.[and status means nothing and recognition and appreciation have disappeared.]

I'd focus on issues an SVP of Customer Service can actually address: call wait times, inconsistent capabilities of phone agents, etc.

If you talk about SHARES (tech), upgrades (loyalty), FA attitudes (inflight) - what else can he say other than "I appreciate your concerns, we've heard them alot, and are working hard to address them"??

A colleague flew the NRT-BOS JL nonstop 787 last week. His reaction? "It's still a 13-hour airplane ride." And he's an aviation buff.

The same goes for the extensive route network spiel. I can get to the same destinations around the same time on other carriers (international) and to a large extent domestic too. I reckon they must be swimming in the "extensive route network and 787 Kool Aid)

Agree. The new United still hasn't gotten this right. I will freely admit that PMUA didn't have this right either. However, the new United seems to have slipped below PMUA in terms of customer service issues related to travel (ie rebooking during IIROPS, getting flights out on time, etc...).

The new United should set its first goal to get back to the PMUA standard of flight operations service.

Very true. The PMCO crowds thinks we defend PMUA..... so not true. There were plenty of problems! But they weren't this bad.

I had to spend 30 mins on the phone last night because an itinerary that I had booked a month ago still hadn't been ticketed. And that was after spending an hour on a previous call to ticket an itinerary using an e-cert.

How is that even possible?

I wrote to 1k Voice on June 14th, first time since 3/3. My SFO-ORD was cancelled(6am flight!). This time I also took an opportunity to mention 3 hour delay on ORD-SIN back in march. Both delay and cancellation were mechanical, of course. 11 days later(today), I an email response that not only misspelled my name, but was also the most cold rubber-stamp response I have ever seen from United. There was a mention of some UNSPECIFIED travel certificate. This does NOT make me feel United values my loyalty.

If it were me, I would start with the high level before diving down into the specifics.

At a high level:

UA has made a dramatic shift in the wrong direction in understanding the needs of the business traveler, which is what most 1K's are. The business traveler is concerned with: productivity; minimizing the impact of business travel to work/life balance; and ensuring that we arrive on time to/from business meetings with as little disruption as possible. Many of the recent policy changes, whether a result of SHARES or not, seem to ignore these needs.

Driving that down to specifics:
1. 1K business travelers have less control to prioritize which flights they are upgraded on. Proof points: fewer CR-1's, loss of priority of upgrades to casual flyers via TOS upgrades, upgrades not clearing, SWU issued when reaching 100k versus at the beginning of the year, etc.
2. 1K business travelers require more unproductive time pre-departure than before. Proof points: loss of dedicated check-in facilities, loss of red carpet, reservation screw-ups, etc.
3. 1K business travelers are less protected during IRROPS and spend more time attempting to rebook and find alternate routes than before. Proof points: less dedicated experienced agents, longer hold times, lack of flexibility in SHARES, less "doing whatever is necessary" to help the 1K flyer.
4. 1K business travelers are afforded fewer simple privileges that make flying more pleasant. Proof points: meal selection, all the little things that have changed.

What this equates to is that UA does not value the 1K business flyer's time, which is one of the most important things that the business flyer cares about. Upgrades mean that the business flyer can get more work done during a flight. Less time required pre-departure means the business flyer can spend more time with her/his family. Faster resolution to IRROPS means the business flyer arrives on time to the meeting, or arrives home faster. To a casual flyer, factoring in a little more time is not as much of an issue. To a business flyer who takes 50, 100, or more flights a year, this adds up to a massive impact on quality of life and quality of work.

The last thing I would add is: does UA aim to have their international Business and First class soft products competitive with Asian and Middle East carriers? If so, how?


+1 to this.

What a great opportunity! I would bring up the first class meal cutoff times.

The meal time cutoffs are ridiculous and the snack is tiring and appearing on way too many flights, including some long hauls

Seriously :confused: Meals :confused:

With all that has gone wrong you want to discuss meals :confused:

EmailKid

Seriously :confused: Meals :confused:

With all that has gone wrong you want discuss to meals :confused:

EmailKid

Agree!

Do you know what the #1 complaint is of College students? Food choices and quality.

It's just a fact of life that unless it's your own cooking, your Mom's cooking or a restaurant you would choose to eat at, expectations in this area are hard to meet and keep most people satisfied. A losing proposition from the start.

If it were me, I would start with the high level before diving down into the specifics.

...

What this equates to is that UA does not value the 1K business flyer's time, which is one of the most important things that the business flyer cares about. Upgrades mean that the business flyer can get more work done during a flight. Less time required pre-departure means the business flyer can spend more time with her/his family. Faster resolution to IRROPS means the business flyer arrives on time to the meeting, or arrives home faster. To a casual flyer, factoring in a little more time is not as much of an issue. To a business flyer who takes 50, 100, or more flights a year, this adds up to a massive impact on quality of life and quality of work.


Excellent post.

If I could talk with Mr. Hand, like earlier posts that said to turn it around to him, I would like to know what's the strategy to attract fliers like us?

For the differentiators (so for example I'll assume the majors are roughly equal safety wise), I value efficient, productive, and reliable transport.

Priority lanes, meals that are not the dreaded cold pasta chicken salad, letting me easily move around when SFO does its usual weather thing, not needing hours while the 1k line esclates to the help desk moving my reservation through Dante's nine circles - these make a real difference.

You listed excellent reasons how United used to be great there, and now look like this is less of a priority for them.

What do they think we value, and how are they going after it?

I had a similar call with the CIO earlier this year, 4/4/2012 actually. He indicated there were huge changes to make the website better, coming, and they would be fixing all the system problems. He also told me that they are on a 4-6week release cycle.

They all say its going to get better. None of it is happening in any kind of timeframe.

Seriously :confused: Meals :confused:

With all that has gone wrong you want to discuss meals :confused:

EmailKid

If meals are the biggest gripe, UA must be doing something right.

tell him about this thread :D

For God's sake don't waste your talk time asking about blankets and meals.

I would like you to ask him to confirm or deny reports of dynamic pricing tactics that offer tickets for less money to less frequent, less loyal United customers... while upcharging more loyal, higher-spend customers. If that's really what's going on (and part of why SHARES was retained), ask Mr. Hand (A) if he imagined such a practice could be concealed in this day and age, and (B) what conclusions higher-value customers should draw about UA's attitude toward them.

Don't get bogged down in the details. The real reason we have all accepted the AA match is higher level -- as is any fix for UA. My advice is to make is more for him to tell you what's going on. That will inform your decision about switching.

If your sense is that they are happy, and that everything is on track to run like they want/expect (once the obvious bugs are fixed), then AA sounds really good. If your sense is that they may actually change some of what you don't like, then maybe UA still makes sense.

He already must know all the details about the AA match and how much better being an EXP is than being 1K as of 3/3. He's on a listening tour, which is probably designed to let folks vent, but we have no evidence it is about actually improving things (and by that, I mean improving things to we pmUA elites who don't like the changes; other folks may be fine, and their business model may do great by nabbing those passengers vs us... all fine, and a choice that UA is making, just a choice that makes AA and even Southwest really appealing to me now).

My questions really boil down to:

"Mr. Hand, why don't you explain to me why I should stick with UA? What is going to change? Don't the philosophical/business approach changes made by the CO management group conflict with what pmUA flyers expected (and what we can get from AA)? (And route network, Star Alliance, and big new plane don't count as answers, because we already know the value of *A, etc.. this is more about corporate philosophy.)"

(1) The new UA has made a choice to focus on leisure and non-elite flyers (taking away elite perks, MM program, TOD upgrades, SWU roulette, etc). Based on that decision, which may very well be a solid business decision for the new UA (I don't think so, but who am I?), why should frequent flyers and elites stay with UA (other than when price is lowest)?

(2) Staff that are not empowered to really help elites are, perhaps, symbolic, of the new UA approach (based on what I know of the old CO approach). This is in contrast to the amazing level of service I used to get on UA and now get whenever interacting with AA. How will this be remedied? Assuming everyone finally learns SHARES and the SHARES bugs are worked out, will front line staff be given more authority? If not, why should an elite stay with UA?

(3) Who is being held accountable for all the problems with system integration, SHARES, lost seats, upgrades not working how we're told they should, lost seats, deleted reservations, etc, etc. I assume they will get fixed, but meanwhile does the new UA hold anyone accountable, and if so how? As a customer, knowing that my service provider believes in quality and service -- and hold their staff to that -- means a lot to me. Without that, how can I believe problems in the future won't be allowed like today? What shouldn't an elite switch, at least until UA gets things fixed, and then consider returning based on what the new UA philosophy/value is vs AA?

--Arun

BINGO...especially number 1...heck...i can hardly use RPUs now.

At breakfast with several other UA elites this morning: why should we chase elite status when a) upgrades are not forthcoming and b) the other benefits come with the UA Club Card?

tell him about this thread :D

I thoroughly agree Mr. Hand should be told to read this thread on FT contrary to someone else that says FT should not be brought up. After reading the host of complaints for months now, and the anger folks have, it is a no-brainer things are in total disarray at UA. This comes from a proud kettle that enjoys his leisure travel.

Not a chance in he!! I would get on a United plane to go anywhere much less trying to rely on them to get me to a business meeting. There are too many other choices out there and to have to put up with rude staff on top of that?!

I vote with my wallet. Not a penny will come from me to go to this bunch of clowns running UA. IMHO it's too little too late to overcome the damage that has been done since 3/3. This phone call with Mr. Hand gives the illusion of hope that things will change.

Run people, don't walk or sit around hoping things will get better. Put Mr. Hand on the defensive. Don't be nice, the new UA doesn't deserve it..Give him an "experience" on the phone he won't forget..The only thing that will force a change is empty airplanes. That's the only thing that will make the biggest impact.

A company cannot spend all it's time looking in the rear-view mirror what they've done wrong. They will crash. This is a leadership problem from the top down and a miserable shame things have come to this.

Vote with your wallet people. That is the most effective change you can do :mad:

I would ask if they are considering simplifying everything about their systems.

I believe a ridiculously high level of overall system complexity combined with insufficiently empowered front line staff is making the most simple requests extremely difficult.

How expensive does it become for UA when we read report after report that simple things like a seat change require 30 minutes + supervisor to resolve?

If the system were hugely simplified, basic requests could be executed in seconds, IRROPS, phone queue times, ability to respond to customers could be improved by a factor of 10x, if not more. I think they are literally falling apart under the weight of all their self created rules (upgrade rules, fare rules, seat change rules, ability to respond to IRROPS rules, the list goes on).

High system complexity and more rules than the US tax code is self inflicted and within their control to change.

Imagine if UA could become the Southwest in terms of simplified common sense rules and operational execution, but focus on the premium business and international traveller market segment? I'd be back in a second. But for now, their service is sub-par, nightmare stories abound, and at the end of the day, their fares are not even often competitively priced. For anybody less than *G, there is nothing going for UA right now.

Very easy question: Why doesn't United want to maintain it's 1K customer base?

That question pretty much covers it. We all understand that United thinks we are over entitled, would rather give first class seats to low paying, infrequent flyers over flyers spending $50,000+ a year with UA, and a host of other issues already raised. So it's clear UA has no interest in maintaining it's base of 1K flyers, and my question is why?

The answer to that question will likely explain the success of the AA status match program.

It shows tremendous hope that they are listening.They'll certainly listen (to their credit), but getting them to realize an issue(s) exists is another challenge in itself.

Here are the points I'd raise: Agents need better tools to do their job. I'd suggest a starting point is *functionality* the sUA agents had before the merger. Specifically this means: Auto (not manual as is the case now!) searching of *A partner and OAL's for IRROP accommodation. Auto reissuing/resyncing of *any* ticket, no matter how 'exotic' (if one adds in partners/OALs the manual complexity adjust the ticket significantly increases) Auto storing/restoring of fares, even for 'exotic' tickets....and don't be fooled by the 'we can't do this' -- they can! sCO has been able to bring online new tools (e.g. checkit) to assist the front line and there is *NO* reason, save lack of will from the executives, to prevent similar tool(s) from being deployed for these issues!
.
Focus on the customer in allowing agents the flexibility to interpret rules with common sense *without* fear of disciplinary action for doing the right thing. Several examples of this are: Empower agents to rebook if a misconnect/delay appears likely, even if it has not yet happened/been officially posted Empower agents with service recovery (e.g. CPRs) to quickly address service failures Empowering agents to take care of UA's best customers (GSs/1Ks), even when they don't necessarily have to, engenders tremendous loyalty and goodwill. Again sUA's model for supporting the GSs/1Ks seems to be an excellent starting point. Avoid the cool-aid! UA might have grand plans to make everything better but without a solid commitment to bringing them about, they'll languish. Ditto for sidestepping the problem - don't let a "well, we just don't think enough customers have an issue with this to look into it" dismiss a concern.

Rather than starting out with specifics, how about saying, "Martin, you must be familiar with all the grievances and issues since you hear and read them. What steps are being done to get guys like me flying with UA again?" This may or may not throw him off, but he may give some insight not thought of before.

Then go into specifics. Don't let him control conversation...^

The business traveler is concerned with: productivity; minimizing the impact of business travel to work/life balance; and ensuring that we arrive on time to/from business meetings with as little disruption as possible. Many of the recent policy changes, whether a result of SHARES or not, seem to ignore these needs.^

Thanks for posting this TIMOS -- please let us know how it goes.

I had a similar call with the CIO earlier this year, 4/4/2012 actually. He indicated there were huge changes to make the website better, coming, and they would be fixing all the system problems. He also told me that they are on a 4-6week release cycle.

They all say its going to get better. None of it is happening in any kind of timeframe.

That sounds like a warning that it will be bad for a while and we should all consider abandoning ship for a year or two until they get this mess worked out. I actually thought it was getting a little better. Said that to a flight attendant and she looked at me funny and said it's all still a mess.

They all say its going to get better. None of it is happening in any kind of timeframe.

Sounds very similar to Delta fixing its award calendar and availability. Never got fixed....

Ask him if you can email him this entire thread. It summarizes all of the key points and contains a lot more content than you can possibly hope to cover. By all means, have the call, and pick your focus, but then, ask if he can read this thread to get more insight and also ask him if he ever even reads FT. Everything he needs to know is here.

FWIW - my top priority is the near impossibility of getting a UG on CO before 3/3 and COdbaUA after 3/3. For all the different types of reasons discussed.

At breakfast with several other UA elites this morning: why should we chase elite status when a) upgrades are not forthcoming and b) the other benefits come with the UA Club Card?

Heck, most of the benefits come with the MP explorer card: "you're in".

Ask him this:

You are delivering the service of a budget carrier, with the cost structure of a legacy mainline carrier. You cannot be both. UA must decide what it wants to be- what is its existencial purpose.

So which is it going to be, Mr. SVP of Customer Service? Budget carrier, or mainline carrier? Please decide soon, and make the decision clear, concise, and consistent. Because the current experience is extremely frustrating.

Are you going to jettison large amounts of costs, and try to compete directly with the WNs of the world? Or are you going to take on more costs, and compete with the Lufthansas and Qatars of the world? UA cannot do both.

So please let us know, and know soon, Mr. SVP of Very Fancy Sounding Titles.

Don't get bogged down in the details. The real reason we have all accepted the AA match is higher level -- as is any fix for UA. My advice is to make is more for him to tell you what's going on. That will inform your decision about switching...

"Mr. Hand, why don't you explain to me why I should stick with UA? What is going to change? Don't the philosophical/business approach changes made by the CO management group conflict with what pmUA flyers expected (and what we can get from AA)? (And route network, Star Alliance, and big new plane don't count as answers, because we already know the value of *A, etc.. this is more about corporate philosophy.)"

(1) The new UA has made a choice to focus on leisure and non-elite flyers (taking away elite perks, MM program, TOD upgrades, SWU roulette, etc). Based on that decision, which may very well be a solid business decision for the new UA (I don't think so, but who am I?), why should frequent flyers and elites stay with UA (other than when price is lowest)?

(2) Staff that are not empowered to really help elites are, perhaps, symbolic, of the new UA approach (based on what I know of the old CO approach). This is in contrast to the amazing level of service I used to get on UA and now get whenever interacting with AA. How will this be remedied? Assuming everyone finally learns SHARES and the SHARES bugs are worked out, will front line staff be given more authority? If not, why should an elite stay with UA?

(3) Who is being held accountable for all the problems with system integration, SHARES, lost seats, upgrades not working how we're told they should, lost seats, deleted reservations, etc, etc. I assume they will get fixed, but meanwhile does the new UA hold anyone accountable, and if so how? As a customer, knowing that my service provider believes in quality and service -- and hold their staff to that -- means a lot to me. Without that, how can I believe problems in the future won't be allowed like today? What shouldn't an elite switch, at least until UA gets things fixed, and then consider returning based on what the new UA philosophy/value is vs AA?

--Arun

This is brilliant thinking...yes, it is impressive to get a call from the Senior Vice President of the Kingdom of United Customer Service of one of the world's biggest airlines. Remember they need you as a customer in order for them to survive.

Don't be impressed with the big title - talk is cheap. He knows ALL the questions you are going to ask him, I will bet on it, and knows how he will respond to you.

Rather than starting out with specifics, how about saying, "Martin, you must be familiar with all the grievances and issues since you hear and read them. What steps are being done to get guys like me flying with UA again?" This may or may not throw him off, but he may give some insight not thought of before.

Then go into specifics. Don't let him control conversation - chinatraderjmr admitted to not pushing his agenda because he didn't want to.

Just remember:

1) You ARE the customer
2) Talk is cheap, what ACTIONS are they taking to change?

UG


One thing is sure, many top tier flyers must have left for them to be calling. Amazing times.

^ I agree with the above and all of the similar opinions expressed. Don't get bogged down.

Basically, be prepared to tell him in 25 words or less why you're voting with your feet and ask him open-ended questions that place the onus on him (or give him the opportunity) to make the case why customers should stick with UA.

I've been trying to figure out how to nest many of the concerns about upgrades into one (compound...) question. It's hard because it's challenging to disentangle actual strategy from apparent system glitches. I would ask about what the facts are (can he confirm our perceptions), and what they want to be doing:

Since 3/3, how has the profile of the premium cabin flyer changed (for PMUA flyers)? What is the difference in full fare, discounted fare, economy-up, elite upgrade, buy-ups and miles upgrades that you are seeing in ridership? What are your targets for each of these groups and how are you going to adjust the strategy in the future?

Ask him this:

You are delivering the service of a budget carrier, with the cost structure of a legacy mainline carrier. You cannot be both. UA must decide what it wants to be- what is its existencial purpose.

So which is it going to be, Mr. SVP of Customer Service? Budget carrier, or mainline carrier? Please decide soon, and make the decision clear, concise, and consistent. Because the current experience is extremely frustrating.

Are you going to jettison large amounts of costs, and try to compete directly with the WNs of the world? Or are you going to take on more costs, and compete with the Lufthansas and Qatars of the world? UA cannot do both.

So please let us know, and know soon, Mr. SVP of Very Fancy Sounding Titles.

Interesting perspective. I agree.

Focus on issues that directly impact you. If he sees you as a FT mouth piece trying to tackle every issue out there whether it impacts you or not..he'll be more likely to discount everything you say.

I just got an email from Martin Hand, SVP Customer Service @ United asking if I am free this week to chat on the phone.

I sent him the same note I emailed 1K Voice about why I accepted a status match from AA to EXP and why I am leaving United.

He wants to discuss the challenges.

I am VERY impressed with United that after a Premier Line agent personally called me 2 weeks ago to talk, that now the SVP of Customer Service for the world's largest airline wants to talk. It shows tremendous hope that they are listening.

Let me know if there are specific (Serious) issues you would like me to raise. I suspect the call won't go more than 10 minutes. So I need to stay focused.

We all LOVE/LOVED United. Let's help Martin make it great again!

- Solve the scrum at boarding by returning to the PMUA ways.
- Upgrade-wise, couldn't they be confirmed a bit more in advance, not all at the gate, for international travel?

It's also rather tacky on the OP's part to brag about this meeting. He or she is obviously being played ( if true) to reach a broader audience.

I am quite sure this thread has already been forwarded to him (hi Martin!) and he's probably putting together answers for the questions that have been listed here.

...a United 1K has been told to, "talk to the hand"? ;)

OP, thanks for sharing. As many others have suggested, I'd let Mr. Hand sell you -- it's his call, after all. Ask why you should leave AA, where you are happier than you were at UA. If he asks you why, asks him why he thinks UA flyers have left, and you will share how your own experience may vary from this.

From reading here on FT, it seems that UA has a great deal of info on individual customer travel history (routes, fares, complaints, etc.) and profitability. Assuming that he has reviewed that data on you, he should be able to make the best case UA can make for your travel profile. Out of curiosity, I did not find it in this thread, what type/volume of travel do you do/control.

Look forward to hearing the outcome.

It's also rather tacky on the OP's part to brag about this meeting. He or she is obviously being played ( if true) to reach a broader audience.

I don't know about "tacky" or "played" but it is 100% crystal clear that Continental has the power to change what they deem it a priority to change. There are countless examples of things that have been "fixed" post 3/3 - ONLY when the HouCrew deems it important to do so of course.

So the only conclusion is that this "conversation request" is not an attempt to learn anything, but rather is just another attempt to appease with words what they refuse to fix with actions.

Frankly I would send a note that said I'm not interested in any more hollow words or promises or cries of wolf. When 1Ks privileges are restored, when upgrades again clear at the windows, when the liars either apologize or are fired - that's when I'd be happy to have a friendly little chat and give my thanks.

You have to realize that these guys are idiots and wrong about how an airline needs to run, but they're not stupid. There's NOTHING you are going to tell him that he hasn't heard. So, realizing that he knows that, then what is the motivation for the call? You can rest assured that it isn't to actually do anything. It's more likely that it's just to appease you with more explanations why they're right and hopefully give you enough additional hollow and meaningless words to squeeze a bit more revenue out of you before you finally realize it’s all just lies and bail like the rest of us.

I fly my last Continental flight of the year home to EWR tomorrow. I gave them till the end of June to put back something closer to the United I knew. I sent emails and called. Now it's AA EXPlat for the rest of the year.

AA just sent me some free Admials Club passes too. Very nice of them to actually ADD value for their most frequent customer tier. Sort of what United used to do before Continental bought the name and killed my airline.

We all LOVE/LOVED United. Let's help Martin make it great again!

Martin does not need to call you to learn what FT posters "like" about the new United. He can assign someone to read this forum and compile a report. I am quite confident that if United were seeking our feedback Shannon could have posted a survey here.

We on the other hand seldom hear from United. Mr. Hand wants to convince you to stay loyal to United - let him do it. And please share his arguments, although I would have preferred to see them posted by UA Insider.

Happy Travels
DLP

What a great opportunity! I would bring up the first class meal cutoff times. After the merger, the cutoff times for meals has become extremely stringent, and a bit ridiculous. For 2-3 hour flights, lunch is only served on flights departing between 11 AM and 1 PM and dinner between the hours of 5 and 7 PM. I recently flew on two flights to Florida, one departing at 10:50 AM, and the other at 1:05 PM, and both missed the cutoff for a meal. On a three hour flight, this is not acceptable, and it is not what the competition does, either. The same goes for dinner – a flight leaving at 7:05 PM should be eligible. It seemed as if the pre-merger CO was just more logical and allowed for flexibility.

I did see a change I liked recently re meal times. BOG-EWR (a 9a departure) has always been breakfast, but I suspect most people did like I did and eat at the hotel or airport before the flight. It was changed to lunch on 6/1, which I appreciate since the flight lands mid afternoon.

How about asking why government Y fares are eligible for instant upgrades? This has had an enormous impact on upgrades out of IAD.

UA won less contacts out of IAD this year than in years past. Is it really making an "enormous" impact on upgrades??

Sort of what United used to do before Continental bought the name and killed my airline.

wow. just wow. YOUR airline. What's your first name Mr. United? After all, it is YOUR name on the plane.

Martin does not need to call you to learn what FT posters "like" about the new United. He can assign someone to read this forum and compile a report. I am quite confident that if United were seeking our feedback Shannon could have posted a survey here.

We on the other hand seldom hear from United. Mr. Hand wants to convince you to stay loyal to United - let him do it. And please share his arguments, although I would have preferred to see them posted by UA Insider.

Happy Travels
DLP

As Scott and Shannon's boss, Mr. Hand (hi Martin) I'm quite sure is aware of FT and was probably alerted to this thread.

I don't know about "tacky" or "played" but it is 100% crystal clear that Continental has the power to change what they deem it a priority to change. There are countless examples of things that have been "fixed" post 3/3 - ONLY when the HouCrew deems it important to do so of course.

So the only conclusion is that this "conversation request" is not an attempt to learn anything, but rather is just another attempt to appease with words what they refuse to fix with actions.

Frankly I would send a note that said I'm not interested in any more hollow words or promises or cries of wolf. When 1Ks privileges are restored, when upgrades again clear at the windows, when the liars either apologize or are fired - that's when I'd be happy to have a friendly little chat and give my thanks.

You have to realize that these guys are idiots and wrong about how an airline needs to run, but they're not stupid. There's NOTHING you are going to tell him that he hasn't heard. So, realizing that he knows that, then what is the motivation for the call? You can rest assured that it isn't to actually do anything. It's more likely that it's just to appease you with more explanations why they're right and hopefully give you enough additional hollow and meaningless words to squeeze a bit more revenue out of you before you finally realize it’s all just lies and bail like the rest of us.

I fly my last Continental flight of the year home to EWR tomorrow. I gave them till the end of June to put back something closer to the United I knew. I sent emails and called. Now it's AA EXPlat for the rest of the year.

AA just sent me some free Admials Club passes too. Very nice of them to actually ADD value for their most frequent customer tier. Sort of what United used to do before Continental bought the name and killed my airline.

WOW! :o This was very powerful and VERY well-written. ^^

Look how many of us left a comment on your post as if you were Martin himself. At first, I thought you should NOT tell him about FT because he might be a more candid with you (like the 1K agent), however, now I am CERTAIN, 99.99999%, the link has been forwarded to him by UA Insider. It would be foolish for her not to send it and give her boss a head's up.

I can't help but wonder the motive for UA calling you, regardless if you spent $1000 annually or $100,000. He knows all the grievances posted on here, yet no general acknowledgement, no changes, etc. Talk is cheap. When chinatraderjmr spoke to him, many answers were "our marketing team found most like that..."

I hope you are not easy on him. Take all of these responses, bundle up the energy and present yourself with firmness. Forget the chit chat, "what are you going to do to get me, and everyone else, back on your planes?"

Everything else is b.s., I will bet he will either give you a handful of SWUs with no class of service restrictions, 150K bonus miles, 1K for life - I won't put it past them to "buy" your business instead of confronting and CHANGING the issues.

UG

While I think Mr. Hand is a decent guy, he certainly had access to the talent and knowledge to answer these questions before they let the talent go, namely Barbara Higgins ex-UA CS VP and Keith Halbert, ex-UA CIO.

The Top 5 things UA needs to do, and pronto, IMO, are:

1. Eliminate the Smisek video. It's disingenuous. It alienates customers. It damages employee morale. There is more negative value than positive, scrap it immediately. Smisek needs to take a less prominent role. If he's a businessman who works out of a corner office, that's where he belongs, not in front of a camera. He is not Gordon. Tell him to get over it.

2. Speak honestly with customers and employees. Anything with corporate doublespeak needs to go. Any materials with promised improvements without demonstrable deliverables needs to be removed. "Raise your expectations to the upright position." Gone. "You're going to like where we land." Gone. The airline has near zero credibility now. Nobody wants empty promises. Same for the "co-worker" and "dignity and respect" rubbish. The UAers are not buying it, and they've lost many of the COers with it. It's not what it meant in the CO days. You'll get more brownie points by dropping the facade and speaking honestly with customers and employees. Smisek makes several times what they do, they don't consider him his co-worker. They won't respect him so long as he uses that language.

3. Replace IT Management. CO IT does not have a handle on many of the problems. Admit it. Replace the IT management. Focus on the Top 5-10 problems and list them as priorities. Overhaul the change management procedures at CO IT and create a team in charge of documenting and managing all business processes through the various technology interfaces. All system updates and changes go through them. If this is too slow or cumbersome, that's because CO built a mess of sprawl with their technology. Consider updating to a more modern back end system like the Star Alliance platform, and redoing it in a more centralized manner.

4. Get rid of the globe. That doesn't mean the tulip has to come back, but the globe has been tarnished. It doesn't stand for what it stood for at CO 20 years ago. It's not a positive for UA either. Want to turn over a new leaf? It's gonna cost a lot of money, but the globe's gotta go. That means painting the planes. Again. If this is the new United, it needs to be something new. Hire an agency and get something new.

5. Empower the front line. The front line needs the tools and autonomy to do right by customers. Want customers to return? Take care of them when stuff hits the fan. And make it easy for the front line to execute on that. It will pay dividends in the long run.

Perhaps i was a bit too strong in my words, but i still hold that the VP will have access to every word written here and the OP was clearly targeted to spread some good cheer around here.

- Loss of free hotel for 1K's during weather IRROPS
- Upgrade situation people have mentioned - selling them when others are on waitlist
- Why non-US members cannot access upgrade space on the web site. If you set your country to anything other than US and ask to use 'MileagePlus Upgrade Award ' it refuses. This makes upgrades an even bigger lottery for non-US members?
- Will 1K's-for-life still get 6*SWU's if they don't fly 100k miles in a year?
- Why have you introduced a two step process to cancel award flights and why does it take 7 days to get the miles back in our account?

You may have already spoken to Mr. Hand, but if not put him on hold several times. Since United doesn't value the time of its customers, you should not value his time accordingly. Just make sure you check in every so often to make sure he doesn't hang up!

I agree with the other posters that your conversation with him is nothing more than a venting opportunity and will not result in any change. The only way COdbaUA will change is if business goes to other airlines and financial results deteriorate, since current management believes their policy changes are maximizing the financial results. Once the financials turn negative, management will have to change direction or will themselves be replaced.

While I think Mr. Hand is a decent guy, he certainly had access to the talent and knowledge to answer these questions before they let the talent go, namely Barbara Higgins ex-UA CS VP and Keith Halbert, ex-UA CIO.

The Top 5 things UA needs to do, and pronto, IMO, are:

1. Eliminate the Smisek video. It's disingenuous. It alienates customers. It damages employee morale. There is more negative value than positive, scrap it immediately. Smisek needs to take a less prominent role. If he's a businessman who works out of a corner office, that's where he belongs, not in front of a camera. He is not Gordon. Tell him to get over it.

2. Speak honestly with customers and employees. Anything with corporate doublespeak needs to go. Any materials with promised improvements without demonstrable deliverables needs to be removed. "Raise your expectations to the upright position." Gone. "You're going to like where we land." Gone. The airline has near zero credibility now. Nobody wants empty promises. Same for the "co-worker" and "dignity and respect" rubbish. The UAers are not buying it, and they've lost many of the COers with it. It's not what it meant in the CO days. You'll get more brownie points by dropping the facade and speaking honestly with customers and employees. Smisek makes several times what they do, they don't consider him his co-worker. They won't respect him so long as he uses that language.

3. Replace IT Management. CO IT does not have a handle on many of the problems. Admit it. Replace the IT management. Focus on the Top 5-10 problems and list them as priorities. Overhaul the change management procedures at CO IT and create a team in charge of documenting and managing all business processes through the various technology interfaces. All system updates and changes go through them. If this is too slow or cumbersome, that's because CO built a mess of sprawl with their technology. Consider updating to a more modern back end system like the Star Alliance platform, and redoing it in a more centralized manner.

4. Get rid of the globe. That doesn't mean the tulip has to come back, but the globe has been tarnished. It doesn't stand for what it stood for at CO 20 years ago. It's not a positive for UA either. Want to turn over a new leaf? It's gonna cost a lot of money, but the globe's gotta go. That means painting the planes. Again. If this is the new United, it needs to be something new. Hire an agency and get something new.

5. Empower the front line. The front line needs the tools and autonomy to do right by customers. Want customers to return? Take care of them when stuff hits the fan. And make it easy for the front line to execute on that. It will pay dividends in the long run.

#1 is laughable - like the food complaints

I am not sure why people think the F meal complaints are laughable...

Business travelers, and some leisure travelers, do not have the time to grab food from the airport since they only have a tight time window between leaving the office/client site/project site/etc and getting to the gate. Many show up at the airport with only 45 minutes before push back. Also, business travelers typically book sub 50 minutes connections that often requires terminal change leaving us no time to grab food at the airport [i.e. from terminal A to C at EWR and vv].

It is nice to be able to depend on the airline to serve decent F meals or Y BOB food since flying is our actual downtime. Time is not a luxury many of us can afford when traveling, also there are many high yielding customers out there who factors in what meal a given flight will be serving when picking flights. I bet snack flights are easier to upgrade instead of Lunch/Dinner flights.

My biggest gripes with the F meals are:

1. The watering down of the mid-con F meals to carbo "bombs" with the hot pocket or the burrito with absolutely no proper hot sides [green beans, mashed potatoes, asparagus, etc]. Please bring back the old sCO meal program and throw away the cookies or ramekins for the nuts.

2. Meal cut-off times for sub 1300 miler flights. And the early dinner cut-off times for many flights. Set them all at 8pm, please.

3. Express F meals on flights over 2.5-3 hours are pathetic. I avoid the 7pm PIT-DEN flight solely for this reason. Please offer hearty sandwiches or salads for those flights. No need for a hot meal, but at least something tasty and filling instead of the nasty salty snack boxes.

At PIT, I usually take the 550pm PIT-IAH flight, which has me leaving work at 4pm. It takes about an hour from downtown to the airport [thanks to traffic and time to walk to the car/bus] leaving me only about 50 minutes to spare, but security is always backed up in the evenings there. Typically takes 20 minutes to get through. Only 30 minutes to spare, it takes about 7-8 minutes to wait/ride the train then take three escalators to the concourse level. That leaves me with only 22-23 minutes before push back, and at this point I have to go straight to the gate to prevent the possibility of the GA giving away my seat if I am not there 15 minutes before departure since the walk to the gate is another 5 minutes or so. Realistically, grabbing food at the airport is not an option and I am not willing to risk losing my seat that will screw up everything just so I can grab food at the airport.

Thanks for sharing this, TIMOS. The responses in this thread are understandably all over the map. And frankly, so is my own thinking on what to do. I guess I'd recommend the following:

1. ASAP, email him links to a few or several FT threads that you think best capture specific things that are going wrong and that indicate that these things are not isolated incidents. Request that he or his staff review them prior to the talk, so he could get a sense of what's frustrated you and other customers, and so he can let you know what UA is doing about them. This way, you don't waste time during the talk explaining the problems. You start off with him having a sense of why you're dissatisfied.

My own recommendations would be the recent thread discussing: a) the seven-hour wait to be rebooked (in LAX, I believe on a flight to Shanghai); b) one that discusses the chaos that ensues for folks seeking upgrades at T24; c) the one on TODs; d) one that highlights the lack of notice when flights, schedules and seats are changed; e) one that discusses the long phone wait times to get even basic tasks done; and f) one of the many that explain the shortcomings with SHARES.

2. Against that backdrop, ask him what specific steps UA is taking to address the problems you've emailed him about and the specific dates by which they will be resolved. I selected the six topics above because they would seem to be matters about which he could offer specific actions and timetables.

3. If you follow step #1, step #2 should take just a minute for you to do. For the most part, the rest of the time I'd let him do the talking, so as to get a sense of whether UA is aware of the issues that are driving away some customers and whether it is serious about addressing them. The less specific he is in his replies to those issues, the less serious we can assume UA is about making positive changes.

4. Oh, and if there is any chance to diplomatically mention how the start of all flights would be so much more pleasant if we didn't have to put up with Smisek's pablum, more power to you!

Channa, while we usually agree to disagree (and do it civilly), I think you make some good points. I wholeheartedly agree with 5, it was my biggest issue with pmCO. 3 is a good one as well, but if it were me I would just say based on multi hour waits at airports, it's clear that front line staff don't have the tools they need to help customers and ask for specific timeframes on changes. 1 and 2 go together, and they can be lumped together under the guise of what you're saying isn't what you're doing. 4, to me, is a non-issue.

While I think Mr. Hand is a decent guy, he certainly had access to the talent and knowledge to answer these questions before they let the talent go, namely Barbara Higgins ex-UA CS VP and Keith Halbert, ex-UA CIO.

The Top 5 things UA needs to do, and pronto, IMO, are:

1. Eliminate the Smisek video. It's disingenuous. It alienates customers. It damages employee morale. There is more negative value than positive, scrap it immediately. Smisek needs to take a less prominent role. If he's a businessman who works out of a corner office, that's where he belongs, not in front of a camera. He is not Gordon. Tell him to get over it.

2. Speak honestly with customers and employees. Anything with corporate doublespeak needs to go. Any materials with promised improvements without demonstrable deliverables needs to be removed. "Raise your expectations to the upright position." Gone. "You're going to like where we land." Gone. The airline has near zero credibility now. Nobody wants empty promises. Same for the "co-worker" and "dignity and respect" rubbish. The UAers are not buying it, and they've lost many of the COers with it. It's not what it meant in the CO days. You'll get more brownie points by dropping the facade and speaking honestly with customers and employees. Smisek makes several times what they do, they don't consider him his co-worker. They won't respect him so long as he uses that language.

3. Replace IT Management. CO IT does not have a handle on many of the problems. Admit it. Replace the IT management. Focus on the Top 5-10 problems and list them as priorities. Overhaul the change management procedures at CO IT and create a team in charge of documenting and managing all business processes through the various technology interfaces. All system updates and changes go through them. If this is too slow or cumbersome, that's because CO built a mess of sprawl with their technology. Consider updating to a more modern back end system like the Star Alliance platform, and redoing it in a more centralized manner.

4. Get rid of the globe. That doesn't mean the tulip has to come back, but the globe has been tarnished. It doesn't stand for what it stood for at CO 20 years ago. It's not a positive for UA either. Want to turn over a new leaf? It's gonna cost a lot of money, but the globe's gotta go. That means painting the planes. Again. If this is the new United, it needs to be something new. Hire an agency and get something new.

5. Empower the front line. The front line needs the tools and autonomy to do right by customers. Want customers to return? Take care of them when stuff hits the fan. And make it easy for the front line to execute on that. It will pay dividends in the long run.

- Loss of free hotel for 1K's during weather IRROPS
+1

- Upgrade situation people have mentioned - selling them when others are on waitlist
- Why non-US members cannot access upgrade space on the web site. If you set your country to anything other than US and ask to use 'MileagePlus Upgrade Award ' it refuses. This makes upgrades an even bigger lottery for non-US members?

+1!!!!

This is more than annoying for someone based outside of the US!!!!

#1 is laughable - like the food complaints

The Smisek video is mostly an agitation to customers and an annoyance to employees. Who wants to listen to how great things are after experiencing the industry's poorest on-time rate, or an airline that drives the industry's highest DOT complaint rate? It really is a joke and has negative value.


Channa, while we usually agree to disagree (and do it civilly), I think you make some good points. I wholeheartedly agree with 5, it was my biggest issue with pmCO. 3 is a good one as well, but if it were me I would just say based on multi hour waits at airports, it's clear that front line staff don't have the tools they need to help customers and ask for specific timeframes on changes. 1 and 2 go together, and they can be lumped together under the guise of what you're saying isn't what you're doing. 4, to me, is a non-issue.

Good points.

What I'm thinking with the globe replacement is something they should do after they fix the place up to try to attract the customers they've lost (and then some), and to regain credibility with the workforce and re-motivate them. They need to do something big to convince these groups that things have changed.

So I probably erred in calling it an immediate item, rather it's something that should be done in a year or so once some of the significant issues are resolved.

The Smisek video is mostly an agitation to customers and an annoyance to employees. Who wants to listen to how great things are after experiencing the industry's poorest on-time rate, or an airline that drives the industry's highest DOT complaint rate? It really is a joke and has negative value.






The Snisek video is ignored by 99.9% of the passengers who see it. It only bothers us, the few, the educated FTers. It would be a waste of time to even bring it up. It's like the pmCO or pmUA crews that make the stupid announcements about what co. They work for. The only thing more ridiculous THRN them making those comments are that is actually bothers some people. Who cares!! Let them say what they like, how does it affect your day? These are petty issues compared to the important stuff like IROPS, employee empowerment, SHARES, etc

Good luck with the call ^ Given that he's from the CO side of the operation, I hope he takes the time to address your concerns, and not just blow them off, or say that you're over-entitled.

He is from the PMUA side of the operation. I had contact with him last year and he was based at UA WHQ in Chicago.

He is from the PMUA side of the operation. I had contact with him last year and he was based at UA WHQ in Chicago.

Hand is definitely from the CO side of the house. He may have moved up to ORD early, but he was head of reservations over at CO previously.

He is from the PMUA side of the operation. I had contact with him last year and he was based at UA WHQ in Chicago.
Wrong. If you google Mr. Hand you will see that his experience is over many years, based in Houston. As pmUA had NO Houston operations, I think you can draw your own conclusions.

As for me, I would ask him a straightforward question and see how he responded.

"What is being done at the merged airline at this point in time to take the "best of both" pre 3/3 operations and make them one?"

The reason that I believe this is important is because the "CO is best" mentality has been seen a few places already: Boarding priority, 744s on HKG-SIN, E+, and some of the upgrade issues.

In these cases, it turns out that pmUA wasn't so bad after all. Perhaps if they were to use MORE of the pmUA systems/processes they might find that actually trying to KEEP their 1K/GS customers isn't so bad after all??

I don't hold out much hope that you'll have anything more than a short gripe session with Mr. Hand's mind made up before it begins, but I wish you well, and we all look forward to the results.

Dave

In addition to the above, quiting Emirates, Virgin, and Qatar is not cool at all.

The lack of WiFi onboard is a big bummer as well.

Hand is definitely from the CO side of the house. He may have moved up to ORD early, but he was head of reservations over at CO previously.

Channa is correct. He is most definitely from CO.

Good luck with this... I'm afraid what you'll hear are talking points about the network and new planes...which is essentially referring to 'changes you'll like'; he'll 'stay on message'

A nice place for UA to start would be to clear out the "attitude" and get employees who care and are empowered to HELP. The cost cutting with respect to the customer experience that makes UA resemble an LCC is not appreciated either.

Hi Everyone, I haven't read this whole thread yet but I will before I talk to him.

I will take notes, push to the top of my list the issues that many of you are bringing up over and over - and also merge with my own personal issues. I won't make it a laundry list.

I'll also ask HIM some specific questions that many of you have mentioned here. I think they are spot on.

I'll stay focused, let him do the talking - and see what answers I can get as to what steps they are taking to fix all this - and why we should stay with UA over AA.

When I talk with him later this week, I'll share the feedback here.

Thanks everyone for your involvement!

You should send him a note beforehand and ask HIM to read this thread, or virtually any other thread on the UA forum, about the abdication of customer service and other poor performance issues, then see what he has to say about it. You can't cover everything, but he can get an idea of how badly things are going with many of his (former) loyal customers.

- Will 1K's-for-life still get 6*SWU's if they don't fly 100k miles in a year?


Already answered by UA Insider ....Yes you will. (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/united-mileageplus-consolidated/1261734-co-ua-million-mile-beyond-flyer-benefits-effective-spring-2012-a-33.html#post17192858)

TALK TO THE HAND.

(Sorry, couldn't resist...)

In addition to the above, quiting Emirates, Virgin, and Qatar is not cool at all.

Do you really believe that UA / CO quit those airlines? It was the other way around. I don't know exactly what happened with QR and VS but UA/CO did not quit EK. It was that EK wanted to wash their hands of any legacy carriers in the US and concentrate on both enlarging their presence in the US (when they signed the agreement w CO and UA, EK did not fly into the U.S. at all). They let the agreement run as they built up the JFK service but now that they fly to 7 cities in N America, 9 by the end of the year and 12 by the end of 2013, they have no need for the likes of UA. For the limited feeder services they need it makes more sense for them to link up w a few smaller airlines like AS where they cut down on complaints as well. I imagine the situation with QR is very similar though I have not read that much about it as I have about the EK situation. As far as VS, that was a CO partner, not a UA partner. Why would an airline like pmUA and now COdbaUA tie in w a carrier they directly compete with on almost every market? (who is not a member of *A)?

The lack of WiFi onboard is a big bummer as well.

That's a given. I've been in the air now going on 9 hours and have not lost my connection once (except an hour over the black sea for some reason). I see pax all over this aircraft on laptops) which is important on a 14 hour flight. Even DL/AA has it. But then again when DL has better food then UA we know we are in trouble

Heck, most of the benefits come with the MP explorer card: "you're in".

No they don't. The MP explorer card is a piece of crap. 2 free club passes a year (joke), priority boarding (group 5, no priority boarding lane another joke), 25K bonus miles when they advertise 40K (HAH!). The only real benefit is the 3x MP miles when booking a United ticket.

Almost worth the $350 to get free club access all the time. MP explorer is $100 and you get nothing.

I'm not elite but coming from someone who has had "better" luck flying United this past year, I'll come at it from a Y flyer perspective:

Ask Hand why corporate hasn't done more to play down the "operated by Continental crew" announcements. Mention how it's extremely childish and many everyday passengers are confused by this notion.

This is at the top of my list -- even though I realize it's not that important in the long run

TIMOS Thanks for the opportunity to add our 2 cents worth. I haven't read all the posts, but I think these guys below summarize it well.

Long ago someone told me, in the end it's not the details of what people do that you remember, it is how they make you feel. For a corporation, that boils down to Customer Service. Be it front line staff (from the tools they have to get the job done to empowerment to make changes on the fly), processes/procedures to make my job/interaction easier, benefits promised, etc.

It starts from the top ... if top management doesn't get it, believe it, then it will never happen. End of story.


Don't get bogged down in the details. The real reason we have all accepted the AA match is higher level -- as is any fix for UA. My advice is to make is more for him to tell you what's going on. That will inform your decision about switching.

If your sense is that they are happy, and that everything is on track to run like they want/expect (once the obvious bugs are fixed), then AA sounds really good. If your sense is that they may actually change some of what you don't like, then maybe UA still makes sense.

He already must know all the details about the AA match and how much better being an EXP is than being 1K as of 3/3. He's on a listening tour, which is probably designed to let folks vent, but we have no evidence it is about actually improving things (and by that, I mean improving things to we pmUA elites who don't like the changes; other folks may be fine, and their business model may do great by nabbing those passengers vs us... all fine, and a choice that UA is making, just a choice that makes AA and even Southwest really appealing to me now).

My questions really boil down to:

"Mr. Hand, why don't you explain to me why I should stick with UA? What is going to change? Don't the philosophical/business approach changes made by the CO management group conflict with what pmUA flyers expected (and what we can get from AA)? (And route network, Star Alliance, and big new plane don't count as answers, because we already know the value of *A, etc.. this is more about corporate philosophy.)"

(1) The new UA has made a choice to focus on leisure and non-elite flyers (taking away elite perks, MM program, TOD upgrades, SWU roulette, etc). Based on that decision, which may very well be a solid business decision for the new UA (I don't think so, but who am I?), why should frequent flyers and elites stay with UA (other than when price is lowest)?

(2) Staff that are not empowered to really help elites are, perhaps, symbolic, of the new UA approach (based on what I know of the old CO approach). This is in contrast to the amazing level of service I used to get on UA and now get whenever interacting with AA. How will this be remedied? Assuming everyone finally learns SHARES and the SHARES bugs are worked out, will front line staff be given more authority? If not, why should an elite stay with UA?

(3) Who is being held accountable for all the problems with system integration, SHARES, lost seats, upgrades not working how we're told they should, lost seats, deleted reservations, etc, etc. I assume they will get fixed, but meanwhile does the new UA hold anyone accountable, and if so how? As a customer, knowing that my service provider believes in quality and service -- and hold their staff to that -- means a lot to me. Without that, how can I believe problems in the future won't be allowed like today? What shouldn't an elite switch, at least until UA gets things fixed, and then consider returning based on what the new UA philosophy/value is vs AA?

--Arun

I won't belabor this, but I'm getting pretty tired of hearing "Look! We have the 787, Economy Plus, and the largest network" as the only positive talking point.

It's CULTURE that matters. If, for example, I'm on a direct flight and feel that I'm being treated like garbage as someone who spends 5 figures a year on flgihts, I'll take the connection (in DFW, I might add *hint hint*) and fly somewhere I'd feel more appreciated.

This is brilliant thinking...yes, it is impressive to get a call from the Senior Vice President of the Kingdom of United Customer Service of one of the world's biggest airlines. Remember they need you as a customer in order for them to survive.

Don't be impressed with the big title - talk is cheap. He knows ALL the questions you are going to ask him, I will bet on it, and knows how he will respond to you.

Rather than starting out with specifics, how about saying, "Martin, you must be familiar with all the grievances and issues since you hear and read them. What steps are being done to get guys like me flying with UA again?" This may or may not throw him off, but he may give some insight not thought of before.

Then go into specifics. Don't let him control conversation - chinatraderjmr admitted to not pushing his agenda because he didn't want to.

Just remember:

1) You ARE the customer
2) Talk is cheap, what ACTIONS are they taking to change?

UG


One thing is sure, many top tier flyers must have left for them to be calling. Amazing times.

Late to the party, so much has been said already. Here's a few from me.

Stop dumbing down the airline's message. Step one should be to dump the CO ad agency and bring back the one used by UA. I'm really tired of the stupid one-line ads aimed at the idiots of the world. I miss the clever ads like the one where the guy is bringing flowers to his mom.

Graphic design matters. Everything CObdaUA does is ugly and makes the airline look like Greyhound - which may indeed be their goal. This is expecially true in SHARES, where everything looks like it was done by the Elbonians.

Get rid on the incorrect error messages on SHARES. Just yesterday I was rebooking, got all the way through to the last step only to get an error message telling me to call. I call, I'm on hold for 30 minutes only to find out that the rebooking had gone through. The error message was an error. Really?? Come on.

Fix the boading mess. There is no excuse for situations where a plane that is at the gate on time and cleaner and that begins boarding on schedule to finally leaves 20-30 minutes late because they can't get the standby pax boarded.

Put a gag on Smisek. I know some people say only we notice, but whenever he comes on the screen I just give him the finger. Muzzle the guy. We get your point already, but frankly we don't like your changes, stop rubbing them in our faces, OK?

Food in F. On my dinner flight LAX-ORD last night the FA actually said she was embarrased to serve the meal, which consisted of the smallest piece of chicken any of us had ever seen on a plate. And may we have our full-sized cookie back please, and chocolate chip not oatmeal raisin??

This was from ChinaTraderJMR's thread awhile back: "ALL customers are important and there is no way to treat 6 sub groups differently on board or in airports the way UA used to."

WHY THE HELL NOT?! You're an enormous corporation with vast financial and human resources at your disposal. If pmUA did it in a way that satisfied us all to a much greater degree, why can't UACO?

In ChinaTraderJMR's thread, the sales manager snidely implied that doing so would affect the profit margin. REALLY??? You're going to lose a whole pile of money because you spend an incremental amount on making your best customers feel happier by handing out a few more CR-1s, etc. I call bull***t. :td::td::td:

ALSO: Eliminate the govt YCA instant upgrades. That essentially means no upgrades ever on transcons out of Dulles. Full fare Y/B? I don't like it, but that's your prerogative. Vastly-reduced YCA? Hell no.

b. YCAs: Government fares to/from IAD are killing upgrade rates for non government pax. The $313 each way IAD-LAX YCA is my favorite example. There are tons of published fares on the route much more expensive than this.

:eek: Is that seriously what the government is paying?! Geezus, it's a miracle that I ever get upgraded on LAX-IAD given those rates.

YCA really should not be trumping elite upgrades.

I think the transcontinental PS flights are the best domestic service on any of the legacy carriers. Tell Mr Hand that discontinuing them in September to cram in more seats (with 10 fewer premium seats) is a big mistake!

I think the transcontinental PS flights are the best domestic service on any of the legacy carriers. Tell Mr Hand that discontinuing them in September to cram in more seats (with 10 fewer premium seats) is a big mistake!

I am not sure what you are implying?

The PS flights will continue and UA is upgrading the seats to a flat bed seat [same seats found on sCO 777s, 767s, and 757s] with a vastly superior IFE system compared to the DigiEplayers. The only change in this improvement is that the F cabin will disappear, however, there is no real significant difference between the F and C cabin on PS flights except for the IFL access.

They will continue to be operated by the same metal that flies this route with WiFi.

Do you really believe that UA / CO quit those airlines? It was the other way around. I don't know exactly what happened with QR and VS but UA/CO did not quit EK. It was that EK wanted to wash their hands of any legacy carriers in the US and concentrate on both enlarging their presence in the US (when they signed the agreement w CO and UA, EK did not fly into the U.S. at all). They let the agreement run as they built up the JFK service but now that they fly to 7 cities in N America, 9 by the end of the year and 12 by the end of 2013, they have no need for the likes of UA. For the limited feeder services they need it makes more sense for them to link up w a few smaller airlines like AS where they cut down on complaints as well. I imagine the situation with QR is very similar though I have not read that much about it as I have about the EK situation. As far as VS, that was a CO partner, not a UA partner. Why would an airline like pmUA and now COdbaUA tie in w a carrier they directly compete with on almost every market? (who is not a member of *A)?
Interesting, thanks.
My points wasn't necessarily to restore these relationships, they can bring along other airlines as partners.

While I think Mr. Hand is a decent guy, he certainly had access to the talent and knowledge to answer these questions before they let the talent go, namely Barbara Higgins ex-UA CS VP and Keith Halbert, ex-UA CIO.

The Top 5 things UA needs to do, and pronto, IMO, are:

1. Eliminate the Smisek video. It's disingenuous. It alienates customers. It damages employee morale. There is more negative value than positive, scrap it immediately. Smisek needs to take a less prominent role. If he's a businessman who works out of a corner office, that's where he belongs, not in front of a camera. He is not Gordon. Tell him to get over it.

2. Speak honestly with customers and employees. Anything with corporate doublespeak needs to go. Any materials with promised improvements without demonstrable deliverables needs to be removed. "Raise your expectations to the upright position." Gone. "You're going to like where we land." Gone. The airline has near zero credibility now. Nobody wants empty promises. Same for the "co-worker" and "dignity and respect" rubbish. The UAers are not buying it, and they've lost many of the COers with it. It's not what it meant in the CO days. You'll get more brownie points by dropping the facade and speaking honestly with customers and employees. Smisek makes several times what they do, they don't consider him his co-worker. They won't respect him so long as he uses that language.

3. Replace IT Management. CO IT does not have a handle on many of the problems. Admit it. Replace the IT management. Focus on the Top 5-10 problems and list them as priorities. Overhaul the change management procedures at CO IT and create a team in charge of documenting and managing all business processes through the various technology interfaces. All system updates and changes go through them. If this is too slow or cumbersome, that's because CO built a mess of sprawl with their technology. Consider updating to a more modern back end system like the Star Alliance platform, and redoing it in a more centralized manner.

4. Get rid of the globe. That doesn't mean the tulip has to come back, but the globe has been tarnished. It doesn't stand for what it stood for at CO 20 years ago. It's not a positive for UA either. Want to turn over a new leaf? It's gonna cost a lot of money, but the globe's gotta go. That means painting the planes. Again. If this is the new United, it needs to be something new. Hire an agency and get something new.

5. Empower the front line. The front line needs the tools and autonomy to do right by customers. Want customers to return? Take care of them when stuff hits the fan. And make it easy for the front line to execute on that. It will pay dividends in the long run.Bolding mine: And this is the key for a win-win situation hands down!

TIMOS - Think about the whole situation in reverse.

If you accepted the status match (you did) and you left UA (you did) and you're happy with your experience so far at AA (unclear if this is the case)...then AA is your new "normal."

You accepted a status match because you thought you could do better somewhere else. If you have, then make it clear that you've found better results and better treatment (customer relations - his world) somewhere else.

If that's the case, it's on UA to convince you that UA's product and service are superior to what you're receiving elsewhere.

Bottom line is that apologies or promises from UA aren't the point.

Is UA running any aggressive promotions to target other carriers' elites? No? So AA, in bankruptcy, has the savvy and the confidence in its product to make this play. And United, the world's biggest airline, has....chaos?

...And may we have our full-sized cookie back please, and chocolate chip not oatmeal raisin??

I'll be darned...there actually ARE some over-entitled elites among us :p

[QUOTE=Far From Home;18824226]Bottom line is that apologies or promises from UA aren't the point.
[QUOTE]

I agree with you generally, but the reality is that for many people an apology IS part of the point. UA messed up, and messed up badly, it's obvious and we all know it. Part of what we're asking for is for SMI/J to be a man and to stand up and say "we really blew it, and here's what we're going to do to make it right." But, nada.

The Smisek video is mostly an agitation to customers and an annoyance to employees. Who wants to listen to how great things are after experiencing the industry's poorest on-time rate, or an airline that drives the industry's highest DOT complaint rate? It really is a joke and has negative value.

What I'm thinking with the globe replacement is something they should do after they fix the place up to try to attract the customers they've lost (and then some), and to regain credibility with the workforce and re-motivate them. They need to do something big to convince these groups that things have changed.

So I probably erred in calling it an immediate item, rather it's something that should be done in a year or so once some of the significant issues are resolved.

The Snisek video is ignored by 99.9% of the passengers who see it. It only bothers us, the few, the educated FTers. It would be a waste of time to even bring it up. It's like the pmCO or pmUA crews that make the stupid announcements about what co. They work for. The only thing more ridiculous THRN them making those comments are that is actually bothers some people. Who cares!! Let them say what they like, how does it affect your day? These are petty issues compared to the important stuff like IROPS, employee empowerment, SHARES, etc

china, in one sense you're right in that the video probably bothers relatively few people. I'd guess considerably more than .1 percent, though, since people who've been aggravated and inconvenienced by lousy UA systems and customer service extend way beyond FTers and probably resent a video telling them how much UA cares, how much it is doing for them, blah blah blah.

While this is certainly far from the most important issue, it would be relatively easy to address by just cutting out the video. Of course, how Hand tells Smisek that frequent customers are sick of his stupid pronouncements is another matter. ;) (Presumably he'd put it much more diplomatically than I just did.)

channa, you're full of good ideas and insights re UA, but dumping the globe is one I'll beg to differ on. I couldn't care less about what's on the outside of the planes, and more generally consider it as a stretch to see such rebranding as really affecting people's perceptions of the company. Any money that's put into that change would be far better spent in almost any other way.

You should send him a note beforehand and ask HIM to read this thread, or virtually any other thread on the UA forum, about the abdication of customer service and other poor performance issues, then see what he has to say about it. You can't cover everything, but he can get an idea of how badly things are going with many of his (former) loyal customers.

Brilliant! I really like this idea because it's so similar to my idea of sending him links to indicative threads. :D

TIMOS Thanks for the opportunity to add our 2 cents worth. I haven't read all the posts, but I think these guys below summarize it well.

Long ago someone told me, in the end it's not the details of what people do that you remember, it is how they make you feel. For a corporation, that boils down to Customer Service. Be it front line staff (from the tools they have to get the job done to empowerment to make changes on the fly), processes/procedures to make my job/interaction easier, benefits promised, etc.

It starts from the top ... if top management doesn't get it, believe it, then it will never happen. End of story.

+1 Which is why many of us are skeptical about this call or similar calls doing any good. Still, it can't hurt for TIMOS to try and we might learn a bit about UA's thinking these days by virtue of the conversation.

For improving the customer experience I have the following recommendations in order of how a traveler experiences UA:

(1) Telephone - Bring back dedicated 1K lines or at least ensure that 1Ks are not directed to ICC or other offshore call centers. If AA and WN can do it then UA certainly can do it too. Program your computer to empower agents to fix problems like seat assignments, upgrades, etc.

(2) Airport Checkin I waited 10m in the F line at SFO to checkin for an international flight. That's mediocre compared with your competitors (business class). The wait for C can also be bad. And thankfully I never have to use the counter for domestic. The simple solution is to add more dedicated staffing at peak hours. Similarly the waiting times at the IAD counters are bad. Again the simple solution is to add a dedicated 1K counter and more personnel. Staffing is relatively cheap and makes a big difference in customer perception.

(3) Security UA doesn't control TSA but it does have a say in how the lines are set up. Funnelling all elites and Chase customers into one line degrades the experience for high level elites who by definition are very frequent travelers. Again, there is a simple solution - set up a separate line for 1Ks and maybe PremEx. As there used to be. There is plenty of space at SFO. If this is already in progress (as rumored) then tell us what you are doing and when it will be done.

(4) Boarding See #3. Need to recognize 1Ks - it's bad enough that we are sometimes 1/3 of the plane at SFO! Also need a way for elites to bypass the general line if the plane has already started boarding.

(5) Seating Elimination of advance E+ seats for 2Ps was a big improvement. But IT needs to be fixed to avoid the lengthly list of problems created by auto-splitting reservations, splitting families, equipment swaps, etc. Is this on the priority list and what is the ETA?

(6) Onboard Recognize 1ks in economy with free drinks and meals (as AA does). Look at VS menu for better options than UA offers. And most importantly please replace the current beer selection with something palatable - again see WN, AS for ideas.

(7) Upgrades If UA won't commit to allocating more inventory for use GPUs and RDUs at time of purchase then maybe just eliminate these instruments. Seriously. They are almost worthless in current form when you can't upgrade family members booking months in advance. Similarly if you plan to sell TODs then just get rid of UDU rather than pretending that elites will be upgraded before TOD.

(8) Irregular Ops It doesn't cost UA a penny to provide accurate and timely information concerning weather/ATC/mechanical delays and cancellations. Some honesty about cause and projected length of delays would go a long ways towards restoring customer trust. Also better contingency plans for flight cancellations and re-bookings. As noted above, elites deserve better and used to receive better treatment pre-merger.


Driving that down to specifics:
1. 1K business travelers have less control to prioritize which flights they are upgraded on. Proof points: fewer CR-1's, loss of priority of upgrades to casual flyers via TOS upgrades, upgrades not clearing, SWU issued when reaching 100k versus at the beginning of the year, etc.
2. 1K business travelers require more unproductive time pre-departure than before. Proof points: loss of dedicated check-in facilities, loss of red carpet, reservation screw-ups, etc.
3. 1K business travelers are less protected during IRROPS and spend more time attempting to rebook and find alternate routes than before. Proof points: less dedicated experienced agents, longer hold times, lack of flexibility in SHARES, less "doing whatever is necessary" to help the 1K flyer.
4. 1K business travelers are afforded fewer simple privileges that make flying more pleasant. Proof points: meal selection, all the little things that have changed.


+1 UA really needs to up its game for 1Ks. Assuming all else is equal, the experience is far better for AA EXPs these days. Should be very easy to copy and implement - it's not rocket science.


Focus on the customer in allowing agents the flexibility to interpret rules with common sense *without* fear of disciplinary action for doing the right thing. Several examples of this are: Empower agents to rebook if a misconnect/delay appears likely, even if it has not yet happened/been officially posted Empower agents with service recovery (e.g. CPRs) to quickly address service failures Empowering agents to take care of UA's best customers (GSs/1Ks), even when they don't necessarily have to, engenders tremendous loyalty and goodwill. Again sUA's model for supporting the GSs/1Ks seems to be an excellent starting point.


+1 - UA could avoid a lot of CS problems (and thereby improve the customer experience) simply by empowering its front line agents. Again WN provides a good model. As others have noted, this was less of an issue in the past.

Maybe, just maybe UA realizes that all is not well in Jeffy land.

Very true. The PMCO crowds thinks we defend PMUA..... so not true. There were plenty of problems! But they weren't this bad.

I agree. We all know that UA wasn't problem free and often offered subpar hard and soft products compared to other airlines (even within *A). The point was that UA always treated its elites well and took care of us. We knew that if the crap hit the fan in IRROPS, we wouldn't be left hanging. That was true from the GS even down to the lowliest 2P (or hell, even 3P when it was around).

Nowadays? I wasn't sure even a paid C ticket would help me. :td:

The Snisek video is ignored by 99.9% of the passengers who see it. It only bothers us, the few, the educated FTers. It would be a waste of time to even bring it up. It's like the pmCO or pmUA crews that make the stupid announcements about what co. They work for. The only thing more ridiculous THRN them making those comments are that is actually bothers some people. Who cares!! Let them say what they like, how does it affect your day? These are petty issues compared to the important stuff like IROPS, employee empowerment, SHARES, etc

By the same token, if 99.9% of the people ignore it, and it annoys or angers the other .1%, then what value does it add to the United brand, other than giving Smisek an opportunity to stroke his ego?

Do you really believe that UA / CO quit those airlines? It was the other way around. I don't know exactly what happened with QR and VS but UA/CO did not quit EK. It was that EK wanted to wash their hands of any legacy carriers in the US and concentrate on both enlarging their presence in the US (when they signed the agreement w CO and UA, EK did not fly into the U.S. at all). They let the agreement run as they built up the JFK service but now that they fly to 7 cities in N America, 9 by the end of the year and 12 by the end of 2013, they have no need for the likes of UA. For the limited feeder services they need it makes more sense for them to link up w a few smaller airlines like AS where they cut down on complaints as well. I imagine the situation with QR is very similar though I have not read that much about it as I have about the EK situation. As far as VS, that was a CO partner, not a UA partner. Why would an airline like pmUA and now COdbaUA tie in w a carrier they directly compete with on almost every market? (who is not a member of *A)?

The interesting thing is US is still tied up with QR and VS, and you can even earn PQMs on VS. It makes you wonder what happened with UA/CO and QR and VS would sever those relationships but keep ones with US.

Maybe it's the smaller feeder airline theory you have, or US is less of a competitor than UA is. Regardless, US is still seen as the lesser US *A carrier, and one would think the less desirable partner.

:eek: Is that seriously what the government is paying?! Geezus, it's a miracle that I ever get upgraded on LAX-IAD given those rates.

YCA really should not be trumping elite upgrades.

Not in all cases. Depends on the city pair.

Some rates are downright ridiculously expensive.

However, keep in mind that YCA is supposed to be a last resort, and the vast majority of govie flyers SHOULD be on _CA fares. YCA is only supposed to be booked if no other fare buckets are available, which given how tight budgets have become I have a hard time believing that every fare is a YCA fare like many make it out to be. :rolleyes:

Also, keep in mind that govie tickets aren't supposed to be ticketed until 48 hours before departure, so it's hard to actually use an upgrade and most R space would be gone at that point. YCA may get them a higher priority on the line, but does it really matter much when UA will just as soon sell a TOD out from under them as any other Y/B fare?

Yes, you can get them to ticket early, but that's the exception and not the rule, and it was usually only for long haul flights.

Maybe, just maybe UA realizes that all is not well in Jeffy land.

Make no mistakes, we've all seen this before. Jeff isn't going anywhere. I'm sure he's distanced himself from many or all of these debacles. The responsibility for the failures will fall almost directly on the shoulders of the B and C Suite VP's.

In fact, I would bet Smi/J is positioning himself to be Chairman when Tilton moves on. Ergo his face-time video we all get to look at every flight.

It will be interesting to see the shuffling of the chairs on the Titanic come this Fall when I think most of the contract for all these guys are up. Didn't they have 2 year deals?

The interesting part of, when or should, this occur is, who gets to take Smi/J's place at the helm. Will it be a pmCO or pmUA person? The answer will be telling.

I love the smell of Napalm in the morning.

Mostly agree with what you post, but

(4) Boarding Also need a way for elites to bypass the general line if the plane has already started boarding.

Never had a problem walking past the kettles and handing my BP to an agent. Though I admit flying mostly from major airports where GAs know the policy.

EmailKid

YCA really should not be trumping elite upgrades.

Yes, but apparently, CO's dumb systems don't know the difference between a YCA and any other revenue Y fare. UA's systems made YCA ineligible for unsupported (e500) upgrades. The whole point of "Y-ups" was that they were rewarding high spend that was 'almost' F prices. Gov Y fares aren't anything close to that, and to treat them like that is ridiculous. Clearly there's no real problem giving last-seat for cheap availability to the gov't, and given the amount of travelers they have, it makes sense to give them a hefty discount.

I am not sure what you are implying?

The PS flights will continue and UA is upgrading the seats to a flat bed seat [same seats found on sCO 777s, 767s, and 757s] with a vastly superior IFE system compared to the DigiEplayers. The only change in this improvement is that the F cabin will disappear, however, there is no real significant difference between the F and C cabin on PS flights except for the IFL access.

They will continue to be operated by the same metal that flies this route with WiFi.

There will be TEN FEWER Business/First seats! Whether you are buying those seats at quoted fares or upgrading using miles or cash, there will be substantially less B/F inventory (so get use to 4.5-6 hours in Coach). Also, there will be fewer Economy-plus seats. Perhaps this is just to make the cheaper flights into/from Newark seem more appealing. Who needs flat-beds, when even eastbound night flights are not long enough to sleep? Who needs upgraded in-flight entertainment when most in B/F are watching what they want anyway on iPads and laptops? To be clear, the purpose of this change is to cram in more seats (and perhaps to insure that over-entitled frequent flyers have less upgrade inventory). Also, can you think of any United flight that has two class service where the B/F service is any good? On the current three class PS flight the service in both B and F is very good, and the all E-plus coach is not bad.

(7) Upgrades If UA won't commit to allocating more inventory for use GPUs and RDUs at time of purchase then maybe just eliminate these instruments. Seriously. They are almost worthless in current form when you can't upgrade family members booking months in advance. Similarly if you plan to sell TODs then just get rid of UDU rather than pretending that elites will be upgraded before TOD.

Or, eliminate the expiration dates for the GPUs and RPUs, given that the opportunity to actually use them is so limited...

Or, eliminate the expiration dates for the GPUs and RPUs, given that the opportunity to actually use them is so limited...

I would be happy if they just set the exp Date of all GPU on 1/31 the following year regardless of when you receive them. This will just solve the problem of people don't want to cross 100k too soon problem.

Good luck with you call with Mr. Hand! From all the suggestions here on what to discuss with him, call should be an hour, not 5-10 mins. I agree with most of the serious operational & service issues previously addressed, as UA is just not performing to the high standards that apparently the corporate offices believe they have established. :rolleyes:

Me, as a big UA fan, I've been loyal for years & yet in 2012 I walked away & gave my 1K business to AA/One World. So far, quite happy with the service, fair air prices, elite benefits & to date, haven't posted an AA complaint OF ANY KIND on this or any other board & I believe that speaks volumes.

Who needs flat-beds, when even eastbound night flights are not long enough to sleep? Who needs upgraded in-flight entertainment when most in B/F are watching what they want anyway on iPads and laptops?

That is entirely subjective. I don't have enough upgrade instruments to apply one every time I take a transcontinental flight, so for me, a dramatically upgraded Y product with AVOD, power and real E+ is a great proposition. Up front, it becomes hands-down the best hard product among the competitors on the JFK transcons, even if the cabin is more difficult to upgrade into (but not unattainable). Ever try DL transcon BE? With the new configuration, UA still has 12 more premium seats than Delta on every flight. It remains to be seen what AA does with their service, but there is no doubt the product will undergo a major change once they start receiving 737-900ERs.

To be clear, the purpose of this change is to cram in more seats (and perhaps to insure that over-entitled frequent flyers have less upgrade inventory).

Or to drive a revenue premium with a better product than AA, DL, VX, or B6 while also increasing capacity at the low end of the market.

Also, can you think of any United flight that has two class service where the B/F service is any good? On the current three class PS flight the service in both B and F is very good, and the all E-plus coach is not bad.

Irrelevant, because the current p.s. F product is virtually indistinguishable from C, aside from the better seat, and the C soft product will remain with the newest p.s. iteration. JFK-LAX/SFO will continue to be a unique offering distinct from the rest of the domestic product.

The impetus for the phone call was AA challenge (really a status match, but that doesn't matter)

Mention 2-3 key things AA is doing better, and keep it brief (each 10 words or less, total one minute). Then, Let him discuss how UA would either match AA on those, or how UA compensates in other areas, or asks you to return despite those differences and lack of plan to close the gaps..

Meal order should not enter the conversation.

This was from ChinaTraderJMR's thread awhile back: "ALL customers are important and there is no way to treat 6 sub groups differently on board or in airports the way UA used to."

WHY THE HELL NOT?! You're an enormous corporation with vast financial and human resources at your disposal. If pmUA did it in a way that satisfied us all to a much greater degree, why can't UACO?

In ChinaTraderJMR's thread, the sales manager snidely implied that doing so would affect the profit margin. REALLY??? You're going to lose a whole pile of money because you spend an incremental amount on making your best customers feel happier by handing out a few more CR-1s, etc. I call bull***t. :td::td::td:

ALSO: Eliminate the govt YCA instant upgrades. That essentially means no upgrades ever on transcons out of Dulles. Full fare Y/B? I don't like it, but that's your prerogative. Vastly-reduced YCA? Hell no.

I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say. "I" don't disagree. I was quoting him when i said that........I think UA did a good job cuz they didn't have 6 sub groups, they had 3-4. (FF/GS, 1K, Other Elites, general passengers). No reason why they still can't do that

There will be TEN FEWER Business/First seats! Whether you are buying those seats at quoted fares or upgrading using miles or cash, there will be substantially less B/F inventory (so get use to 4.5-6 hours in Coach). Also, there will be fewer Economy-plus seats. Perhaps this is just to make the cheaper flights into/from Newark seem more appealing. Who needs flat-beds, when even eastbound night flights are not long enough to sleep? Who needs upgraded in-flight entertainment when most in B/F are watching what they want anyway on iPads and laptops? To be clear, the purpose of this change is to cram in more seats (and perhaps to insure that over-entitled frequent flyers have less upgrade inventory). Also, can you think of any United flight that has two class service where the B/F service is any good? On the current three class PS flight the service in both B and F is very good, and the all E-plus coach is not bad.

Come on now... I know piling on PMCO has become a sport in here but to suggest that those worn, run down and barely functioning C seats on the PS birds are superior to the BF C on PMCO 757's is patently ridiculous. I've taken 12 PS r/t flights this year in C and my seat has been broken at least half the time. Moving this flight to an all BF configuration is a huge improvement.

(BTW, I'm a HUGE fan of PS flights. As a PMCO guy, the best part this merger for me was the introduction of PS)

But it is no longer ps as an exclusive service given the BF seat plies routes to places like Hawaii.

And even without the merger any CO flyer could partake. In fact the COer would still accrue for MM.

Let's not credit the merger with things already available pre-merger

Ik member for years and million miler. I have two coach MileageAge Plus Award seats from Barcelona to Washington IAD in July. Cost me 55,000 points. Three times i have booked first class on Lufthansa on the Mileage Plus site (these seats show as availabel for 67,500 points.) No brainer, right? First on Lufthansa for 12,500 more points with a better connection.

Problem is I have booked this three times and three times my reservation has been cancelled. United keeps telling me it "wasn't really available" in the first place and it must have been a "system error." So if it a system error why have i been able to book three times in three weeks? Email to ivocice goes unanswered. Calls to technology help desk not answered. :td:

United is a wreck.

Come on now... I know piling on PMCO has become a sport in here but to suggest that those worn, run down and barely functioning C seats on the PS birds are superior to the BF C on PMCO 757's is patently ridiculous. I've taken 12 PS r/t flights this year in C and my seat has been broken at least half the time. Moving this flight to an all BF configuration is a huge improvement.

(BTW, I'm a HUGE fan of PS flights. As a PMCO guy, the best part this merger for me was the introduction of PS)

I would suspect the math here was they figured out the reduction in total premium seats was about equal to those they they gave away as upgrades and are planning to actually sell the seats they have on the plane instead of giving out the upgrades.

Keep your expectations in line. You will resolve NOTHING, You will bring light nothing new, you will be told you are a valued customer of UA.

I got a similar call from a mgmt / A.V.P or similar position. While felt like they were trying it was obvious the caller wanted to end the call as quickly as possible.

I have since flown 6 segments with UA and 19with AA. So far my experience with AA has been far superior.

Your expectations will determine the outcome of the call.

I can't wait to hear what Mr. Hand has to say.

But I have a new normal, Delta. And in most respects, I am quite happy and pleasantly surprised.

I really miss the UA that treated me so well (prior to 3/3 of course). I still have a red boarding carpet in my office, and a large tulip logo on my home office door. They remind me of nice agents, awesome crews, surprise upgrades and good times.

I'm afraid it's too late for the new UA. Unless they offer a 1 year status extension and a drastic overhaul of procedures, IT, culture, upgrade functionality, treatment/training/management of front-line employees, and a sincere apology for screwing up 2012, the 1Ks and Globals are gone for good.

But it is no longer ps as an exclusive service given the BF seat plies routes to places like Hawaii.


And Hong Kong, London, Tokyo, Tel Aviv, Frankfurt, Shanghai, Delhi, Lagos... places where UA probably makes more money than the transcons!

What do you say about the fact that p.s. C is merely the previous generation United Business product? IMO, the p.s. F product is nothing special anymore, and the BF seat is a quantum leap forward in terms of comfort.

I don't know about anyone else but I'm not at all convinced that they 'get it' at all or that they see the changes they've implemented as being a problem. You see they've always been "Right" so how could they not be "right" about this.

If anything they'll see the problem as not all the changes they have planned are fully implemented...somehow things are still in mid-course but the plans we have for an improved website (aka more ways to extract money from us), 787s to Lagos, and an industry leading route structure will make up for the too often rude, surly employees (not to mention clueless) who act like we're a problem and not a customer.

We just don't understand how reduced competition (further industry consolidation) and locked in corporate contracts are eliminating their choices. It's just Air-IAH/CLE/EWR on steroids--stick to the plan... just give it time to play out and they'll understand.... and by then the race to the bottom will be over. We'll be there. :eek:

I don't know about anyone else but I'm not at all convinced that they 'get it' at all or that they see the changes they've implemented as being a problem. You see they've always been "Right" so how could they not be "right" about this.

If anything they'll see the problem as not all the changes they have planned are fully implemented...somehow things are still in mid-course but the plans we have for an improved website (aka more ways to extract money from us), 787s to Lagos, and an industry leading route structure will make up for the too often rude, surly employees (not to mention clueless) who act like we're a problem and not a customer.

We just don't understand how reduced competition (further industry consolidation) and locked in corporate contracts are eliminating their choices. It's just Air-IAH/CLE/EWR on steroids--stick to the plan... just give it time to play out and they'll understand.... and by then the race to the bottom will be over. We'll be there. :eek:


Very powerful postings - everyone. Everyone has written some very powerful postings.

As someone who manages a company, if United belonged to me and I was reading this, the guillotine would be on it's way to the corporate office. But that's coming from someone who believes in kissing the customer's behind.

Again, profitability can be achieved with great customer service - it all starts at the top and trickles down. There are companies that bow down to the customer and the customer can't hand hand their cash quick enough...even the lint in their pockets to boot! (think Apple, think Four Seasons, think Mercedes, think Armani, think Nordstrom)

I believe the writer above is spot on, their plans are mid-point and haven't been implemented, but the signs of it being a HUGE bomb can be seen in the horizon.

Great posting Monsieur Renard - great postings everyone! ^^^

UG

Again, "What is United going to do to get me (us) back on your planes?" What they are doing now is NOT working.

I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say. "I" don't disagree. I was quoting him when i said that........I think UA did a good job cuz they didn't have 6 sub groups, they had 3-4. (FF/GS, 1K, Other Elites, general passengers). No reason why they still can't do that

Yes, I understood you were quoting him and hope that everyone who read my post understood that as well. Apologies for any confusion! We are on the same page.

As an aside, I really enjoy your contributions to this community! Thank you for sharing your experience with that large refund. Even though the response from UA was irksome, I think we were all glad to get some insight into their thought process. :)

Please tell Mr. Hand that AA has called
Me three times this month and each time welcomed me back. They gave me club passes and GOGO cards and made UA seem unappreciative.

Why fly UA who forced me to pay for
w and v fare losing lottery to
Asia ?

Please tell Mr. Hand that AA has called
Me three times this month and each time welcomed me back. They gave me club passes and GOGO cards and made UA seem unappreciative.

That's my feeling as well ... I've gotten letters, emails, phone calls ... AC passes, gogo chits... not to mention a hearty thank you with the free drink/snack on the 2 occasions I've not cleared an upgrade (or 3 Eagle flights where there is no F yet). Even the Citi/AA WorldElite card arrived overnight, in the most beautiful box.

Every employee interaction, every AC entrance, even the foodservice folks in the AC (which, BTW, has very decent food offerings!) have been wonderful. IRROPS - my call to ExP line is answered _BEFORE_ the 1st ring, never on hold, and fixes are done in seconds, not minutes.

I haven't seen or heard anything from UA - my last UA flight was 4/25 (and LH flight on 5/11). Scores of TopGuest airport check-ins showing up since then... lots of DFW and ORD. I've practically lit up a neon sign "I'm flying, but not on UA" :)

So that's what I'm taking away from everything that's happened over the last few months ... AA has gone above and beyond, out of their way to gain my business, make me feel welcomed and pampered, and keep my business. UA, on top of driving me away with frustrating glitches and devaluations and new policied, hasn't even noticed I'm gone.

AA has gotten over 25k miles from me in the last 45 days... I'll easily requal. for ExP now and they've locked in my business for another year.

Good luck on your call ... hopefully someone in the C-suite is starting to understand the level of damage they've brought about, but I don't hold much hope for any significant changes. At least until there are some significant changes in that c-suite.

But it is no longer ps as an exclusive service given the BF seat plies routes to places like Hawaii.

And even without the merger any CO flyer could partake. In fact the COer would still accrue for MM.

Let's not credit the merger with things already available pre-merger

Are you suggesting the OP ask Martin Hand if UA can retain an inferior hard product on PS routes simply so that it will be exclusively different from other flights operated with internationally configured aircraft?

Yesterday, I got a phone call from AA. I haven't flown AA in more than 10 years since I have stupidly and foolishly been 100% loyal to an airline called UA that doesn't exist anymore.

This airline that was UA and is now CO won't respond to any of my requests for help, won't do what they say they will do, lie to me constantly, and has given me only 1 single CPU upgrade all year compared with 70%+ rate with UA.

In comparison, the other airline, AA, with whom I HAVE NOT FLOWN IN 10 YEARS, actually called me to tell me that my miles with them are expiring and gave me an offer to keep them alive.

I think this really sums it up as far as customer-centric attitude. I can spend tens of thousands of dollars with CO for BIS and they smash me in the face and treat me with disdain at every single interaction. If they don't do that, then they just ignore me.

On the other hand, AA, and airline that hasn't seen me in 10 years, has actually given me more attention than CO has.

What does that say?

They are winning me over through all the reports I'm reading from others on FT. And, even though their route network generally sucks and is almost worthless out of SFO, I'm increasingly likely to switch in 2013 if not sooner.

It's just not worth sticking with an airline that treats their best customers as though they were enemy combatants. Something is terribly wrong here.

What does that say?


Did you really mean to ask that rhetorical question? The answer is simple and obvious. AA is in desperation mode while UA is not. UA may get there with the sheer number of defectors but they aren't yet. Don't be surprised to get calls from UA in a year or so when they realize what has happened.

-RM

Mr. Hand should read this, I think it captures the Laurel and Hardy feeling we've all had recently...

http://upgrd.com/matthew/meltdown-at-lax-united-business-isnt-our-business.html


It turned out that my flight to Chicago this morning on United Airlines was oversold and three volunteers were needed. After some negotiation, I offered to give up my seat, despite the meager $250 in compensation being offered. But then my new routing options were laid out, options and inflexibility that get to the heart of what is wrong with the merged airline. I also do not like being lied to. Let’s recount my conversation at Gate 62

While United went after customers who broke the rules, Continental went after FAs who comped snack boxes or gate agents who upgraded passengers during irr/ops. United agents were empowered to take matters into their own hands (and thankfully, some of them still do) while Continental agents were afraid, very afraid, and consequently adopted an attitude that has driven so many people away since 3/3/12—an attitude that customers are inherently suspect, that upgraders and award travelers are leeches, and that it is better to take the easy way out

Mr. Hand should read this, I think it captures the Laurel and Hardy feeling we've all had recently...

http://upgrd.com/matthew/meltdown-at-lax-united-business-isnt-our-business.html



Whew! Even if only 75% accurate, thats despicable. I'm saddened by story's like this. It might show there is no chance at all of this mess getting turned around.

Whew! Even if only 75% accurate, thats despicable. I'm saddened by story's like this. It might show there is no chance at all of this mess getting tuned around.

Sadly, I believe it shows EXACTLY that. :(

It shows a customer service business with a model that somehow assumes it will have those "customers" irrespective of how it treats them.

Maybe that works for airlines with fortress hubs??

Dave

It shows a customer service business with a model that somehow assumes it will have those "customers" irrespective of how it treats them.

In some ways I'm more concerned about what it says about how employees and front line staff are treated. They are the ones that make good customer service happen. If you don't trust them (and have them fearful) to make even minor decisions that clearly benefit the company, how will the employees ever treat customers with respect and trust? I know it is the now-cliche Southwest story, but I also felt it in pmUA (at least as an elite).

In some ways I'm more concerned about what it says about how employees and front line staff are treated. They are the ones that make good customer service happen. If you don't trust them (and have them fearful) to make even minor decisions that clearly benefit the company, how will the employees ever treat customers with respect and trust? I know it is the now-cliche Southwest story, but I also felt it in pmUA (at least as an elite).

I know I'm not going to make any friends from the pmCO side, and this IS NOT meant for all the great pmCO employees on the front line who do their best every day, but until we see a MAJOR change in mindset, or complete change in those personnel by/of the pmCO Executive staff, this can't get better.

Can you imagine how all of these front line employees would feel if they are given the tools, which includes the authority, to do the "right" thing for the customer, which ultimately means the business? They should never fear repercussion for doing that. Shame on CO if that was the case.

If there is one message Mr. Hand can send out to all employees he is responsible for is, "Do what's right for the Customer and every one matters. We WANT them coming back to fly our airline".

If there is one message Mr. Hand can send out to all employees he is responsible for is, "Do what's right for the Customer and every one matters. We WANT them coming back to fly our airline".

The really foolish part of the story for Mr. Hand to consider is that UA probably just lost 3 customers forever (the 3 IDBs) and pissed off an elite (the author) when they simply could have been accommodating. Had the agents been better trained, UA's policies better defined, and UA's systems more responsive those four "losses" would not have happened.

I'm a GS, almost exclusively domestic flying. On average 2 trips a week, sometimes with connections, and hitting over 135k BIS a year.

I'm not seeing any of this. Sure there are issues, but nothing that even remotely rises to the level of bolting for AA of DL. And to be honest, nothing I've seen posted on here recently isn't a redundant patter of complaints that all airlines face, and will always face.

If you fly long enough you begin to notice patterns of complaints; overbooking, missed flights, bad service, etc. There's really nothing new here. It seems to make people feel better to dog pile on Shares and the CEO, because it's easy and they don't fight back. The obvious truth is, the free giveaways have been reduced. It's actually amusing when a few defectors gloated that they now love AA because they threw them a few free things. Apparently that's the difference between leaving UA and going with AA, 2 lounge passes, and a form letter.

Fact is, there's nothing new to see here. And management knows it.

I'm a GS, almost exclusively domestic flying. On average 2 trips a week, sometimes with connections, and hitting over 135k BIS a year.

I'm not seeing any of this. Sure there are issues, but nothing that even remotely rises to the level of bolting for AA of DL. And to be honest, nothing I've seen posted on here recently isn't a redundant patter of complaints that all airlines face, and will always face.

Hopefully being GS insulates you from a lot of this. I notice a downgrade as a 1K, though. To me it hasn't been the normal things that every airline gets, it has been the general downgrade of general operational issues, of the quality of service from phone agents and airport staff -- and the devaluation of Mileage Plus and my elite status.

Most of my agents have been friendly and trying to do the right thing but unable to. I blame poor IT planning for lost reservations, upgrades not working how they are supposed to (that does seem better now, but now it is just me not liking the way they are supposed to work... rewarding leisure flyers vs frequent flyers means).

It has all just made me more likely to fly AA and Southwest. Not bolt entirely from UA, but certainly not go out of my way to put my money there.

And with the general attitude, I just don't think UA wants to keep my business. (Again, fair enough... they should target whoever they want and believe will make them the most money. I conceitedly believe that 1K year after year is worth more than unreliable leisure flyers, but I'm not running their business.) Compare that to AA, which owes me nothing. Every interaction on phone and live has been stellar.

Of course, YMMV. I'm actually kind of glad to see that a GS is happy -- maybe it is just that UA doesn't really want to focus on 1Ks and below any more. Fair enough. But AA appears to.

I'm a GS, almost exclusively domestic flying. On average 2 trips a week, sometimes with connections, and hitting over 135k BIS a year.

I'm not seeing any of this...

"Let them eat cake?" :D

I'm actually kind of glad to see that a GS is happy -- maybe it is just that UA doesn't really want to focus on 1Ks and below any more. Fair enough. But AA appears to.

Joking aside, that's my impression as well. This would confirm UA's new strategy is working exactly as planned. Money talks - loyalty walks.

Yesterday, I got a phone call from AA. I haven't flown AA in more than 10 years since I have stupidly and foolishly been 100% loyal to an airline called UA that doesn't exist anymore.

This airline that was UA and is now CO won't respond to any of my requests for help, won't do what they say they will do, lie to me constantly, and has given me only 1 single CPU upgrade all year compared with 70%+ rate with UA.

In comparison, the other airline, AA, with whom I HAVE NOT FLOWN IN 10 YEARS, actually called me to tell me that my miles with them are expiring and gave me an offer to keep them alive.

I think this really sums it up as far as customer-centric attitude. I can spend tens of thousands of dollars with CO for BIS and they smash me in the face and treat me with disdain at every single interaction. If they don't do that, then they just ignore me.

On the other hand, AA, and airline that hasn't seen me in 10 years, has actually given me more attention than CO has.

What does that say?

They are winning me over through all the reports I'm reading from others on FT. And, even though their route network generally sucks and is almost worthless out of SFO, I'm increasingly likely to switch in 2013 if not sooner.

It's just not worth sticking with an airline that treats their best customers as though they were enemy combatants. Something is terribly wrong here.

I had a similar experience, in that I took a VDB from CO last December and was rebooked on AA. Every single AA representative I interacted with treated me better as a no-status AA flyer than the UA crew treats me as a 1K/1MM.

I had a similar experience, in that I took a VDB from CO last December and was rebooked on AA. Every single AA representative I interacted with treated me better as a no-status AA flyer than the UA crew treats me as a 1K/1MM.


Sadly, this is what we used to say about UA when we started using UA as our primary instead of CO many years ago. UA treated us better as Premier Execs than CO did as Platinums.

I concur with everything I have read here. I wonder why the new CO (yes, they use the name United, but it is Continental Airlines once again) hasn't focused on listening at any level. Plain and simple. Many things have gone wrong, while many have gone right. I would ask you to let Martin know that we would like people to listen to us. United did that (yes, they did a lot of things posters mention, too), but Continental hasn't. Let's face it, most of the senior management on Wacker Drive or in the Willis Tower came from Houston, not Elk Grove Village.

Continuing on, I would want to ask Mr. Hand why I, as a 1K, should still bother with this airline when so many of the great aspects of 1K have been eliminated: 1K check-in, 1K boarding, 1K agents, 1K voice, etc. Or does the airline seriously not want us and instead prefer kettles it can nickel and dime?

I'm a GS, almost exclusively domestic flying. On average 2 trips a week, sometimes with connections, and hitting over 135k BIS a year.

I'm not seeing any of this. Sure there are issues, but nothing that even remotely rises to the level of bolting for AA of DL. And to be honest, nothing I've seen posted on here recently isn't a redundant patter of complaints that all airlines face, and will always face.

If you fly long enough you begin to notice patterns of complaints; overbooking, missed flights, bad service, etc. There's really nothing new here. It seems to make people feel better to dog pile on Shares and the CEO, because it's easy and they don't fight back. The obvious truth is, the free giveaways have been reduced. It's actually amusing when a few defectors gloated that they now love AA because they threw them a few free things. Apparently that's the difference between leaving UA and going with AA, 2 lounge passes, and a form letter.

Fact is, there's nothing new to see here. And management knows it.

I am also a GS. There's a thread somewhere here which is exclusive to GS members and it doesn't speak as highly of UA as you do above.

As for me, my upgrade rate is down. Is yours remaining constant? What kind of fares are you buying?

It will truly be interesting when the Summer vacation season is over and the only travelers after August will be business customers.

We'll see who's really still on the team. Thats when the rubber will really meet the road.

I'm sure HAL will be able to handle that traffic level. That'll be more like the volume of what CO was before the merger.

We'll see.

I'm a GS, almost exclusively domestic flying. On average 2 trips a week, sometimes with connections, and hitting over 135k BIS a year.

I'm not seeing any of this. Sure there are issues, but nothing that even remotely rises to the level of bolting for AA of DL. And to be honest, nothing I've seen posted on here recently isn't a redundant patter of complaints that all airlines face, and will always face.

If you fly long enough you begin to notice patterns of complaints; overbooking, missed flights, bad service, etc. There's really nothing new here. It seems to make people feel better to dog pile on Shares and the CEO, because it's easy and they don't fight back.
^ I certainly echo this. My experiences in the last few months (30-odd segments since 3/3) have been no different than they've been in the last few years. Same experience at the airport, same mix of nice vs. indifferent FAs, same delays into EWR...

I left because it was so bad. Did you not fly at all during March? It was beyond FUBAR. Our wonderful Global status meant nothing in March. The phone line was hosed for at least two weeks. And afterwards, the nice agents were largely clueless on how to deal with/circumvent the new CO polices and SHARES bugs.

That was enough for me. Glad to hear things are working well for you (seriously).

I'm a GS, almost exclusively domestic flying. On average 2 trips a week, sometimes with connections, and hitting over 135k BIS a year.

I'm not seeing any of this. Sure there are issues, but nothing that even remotely rises to the level of bolting for AA of DL. And to be honest, nothing I've seen posted on here recently isn't a redundant patter of complaints that all airlines face, and will always face.

If you fly long enough you begin to notice patterns of complaints; overbooking, missed flights, bad service, etc. There's really nothing new here. It seems to make people feel better to dog pile on Shares and the CEO, because it's easy and they don't fight back. The obvious truth is, the free giveaways have been reduced. It's actually amusing when a few defectors gloated that they now love AA because they threw them a few free things. Apparently that's the difference between leaving UA and going with AA, 2 lounge passes, and a form letter.

Fact is, there's nothing new to see here. And management knows it.

I am also a GS. There's a thread somewhere here which is exclusive to GS members and it doesn't speak as highly of UA as you do above.

As for me, my upgrade rate is down. Is yours remaining constant? What kind of fares are you buying?

Also a GS - my experience post 3/3 in a word "stunk", on just about every level, hence I called AA...and a thread started which saw a lot of traffic. I have taken several AA flights since and found customer service across the board exemplary. That said I flew UA for first time in over a month on a multi-leg itinerary over several days that included some last minute changes for me and friends on the last leg - the UA experience was everything I remember prior to 3/3. GS line at EWR, club - welcome no credentials beyong BP, boarding priority, meal choice and a thank you, live agent on first ring (three times in a row - one to "force" a RPU for friend that system didn't get right...they are working on that), ORD GS accomodation of two friends who like me doing last minute schedule change.

I too had corresponded with Snr. UA Exec who was given mandate of fixing GS...based on this most recent experience they have made huge progress since the dark days of March/April. As a result my Asia trip next week is on UA metal - hoping the last experience wasn't an anomoly and UA is getting back. Expect 1k starting to see improvements too, but can't comment from personal experience.

Sorry but I'm still in stock from 3 pages back. The guy was holding a biz class tkt to FRA on an sUA flight and the GA would not put him in a biz class seat on sn sCO flight because why? She said there service is better and it's called BusinessFirst????? I find an alarmingly high # of sCO customers that considered BusinessFirst true first class which could not be further from the truth but the fact that agents think this as well???? I suggest taking your BF BP and trying to get into any IFCL or partner FCL (Thai, Singapore, Asiana). BusinessFirst is business class. No more! No less! It certainly ain't first

Expect 1k starting to see improvements too, but can't comment from personal experience.

No thanks. Continental has had three months of chances to say it's sorry for giving the royal finger to 1Ks and start doing something about fixing the very detailed problems (or at least come clean about them.)

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

Sadly, this is what we used to say about UA when we started using UA as our primary instead of CO many years ago. UA treated us better as Premier Execs than CO did as Platinums.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Left Continental for a real airline - one that could handle IRROPS and treat loyal customers with dignity instead of Continattitude. Now just doing it again as the HouCrew destroys that real airline.

Sorry but I'm still in stock from 3 pages back. The guy was holding a biz class tkt to FRA on an sUA flight and the GA would not put him in a biz class seat on sn sCO flight because why? She said there service is better and it's called BusinessFirst????? I find an alarmingly high # of sCO customers that considered BusinessFirst true first class which could not be further from the truth but the fact that agents think this as well???? I suggest taking your BF BP and trying to get into any IFCL or partner FCL (Thai, Singapore, Asiana). BusinessFirst is business class. No more! No less! It certainly ain't first

Yeah. You know I really wish I could say it surprises me but it really doesn't. Some sCO people I have encountered are really great, but honestly, you can tell that some of them operate as if the merger did not happen and have the sCO-centric mentality about everything. COdbaUA (oddly) decided to label both 2-class and 3-class service "BusinessFirst" -- if it's the same inventory--what is the darn issue? The roulette that CO plays with the VDBs is ridiculous.

For example, on my flight last week, a sCO agent at BUF called for "Global Express 1K's" to board.

Sorry but I'm still in stock from 3 pages back. The guy was holding a biz class tkt to FRA on an sUA flight and the GA would not put him in a biz class seat on sn sCO flight because why? She said there service is better and it's called BusinessFirst????? I find an alarmingly high # of sCO customers that considered BusinessFirst true first class which could not be further from the truth but the fact that agents think this as well???? I suggest taking your BF BP and trying to get into any IFCL or partner FCL (Thai, Singapore, Asiana). BusinessFirst is business class. No more! No less! It certainly ain't first

I read that he had LAX-ORD-PHL on UA and PHL-FRA on US. If that's the case, though the treatment may have been poor I don't think it rises to the level of the OP speaking to Martin Hand about...

Let's get back to the topic: Talking to the Hand.

iluv2fly
Moderator, UA

I read that he had LAX-ORD-PHL on UA and PHL-FRA on US. If that's the case, though the treatment may have been poor I don't think it rises to the level of the OP speaking to Martin Hand about...

Very true. I didn't even realize what thread this was. I was just shocked at the situation

Has the phone call happened yet?

If you fly long enough you begin to notice patterns of complaints; overbooking, missed flights, bad service, etc. There's really nothing new here. It seems to make people feel better to dog pile on Shares and the CEO, because it's easy and they don't fight back. The obvious truth is, the free giveaways have been reduced. It's actually amusing when a few defectors gloated that they now love AA because they threw them a few free things. Apparently that's the difference between leaving UA and going with AA, 2 lounge passes, and a form letter.

Fact is, there's nothing new to see here. And management knows it.

No, it's definitely worse, between upgrade rates, IRROPS issues, anything SHARES related, labor/management problems, morale, etc.

You downplay the AA experience, it's not just getting "freebies" - it's feeling valued again, that you'll be taken care of if things go sour, and that they're not trying to sell things out from under your feet. COdbaUA is not like anymore.

...
You downplay the AA experience, it's not just getting "freebies" - it's feeling valued again, that you'll be taken care of if things go sour, and that they're not trying to sell things out from under your feet. COdbaUA is not like anymore.

+1,000

Customer Service 101... make the customer feel valued... something that I fear many businesses have forgotten (not just UA). This is particularly important to elites or repeat customers, because, quite frankly, why would a customer give a company their business if treated like crap over and over. The occassional flyer may put up with it because s/he doesn't fly UA regularly, but hosing your repeat business customers is a sure fire way to lose their business.

Unfortunately, UA has a major problem now, not only are it's policy anti-elite, their front line service people have been so burned out or poorly trained that they are exacerbating the situation.

Has the phone call happened yet?

No. Today or tmrw I believe

I'm a GS, almost exclusively domestic flying. On average 2 trips a week, sometimes with connections, and hitting over 135k BIS a year.

I'm not seeing any of this. Sure there are issues, but nothing that even remotely rises to the level of bolting for AA of DL. And to be honest, nothing I've seen posted on here recently isn't a redundant patter of complaints that all airlines face, and will always face.

If you fly long enough you begin to notice patterns of complaints; overbooking, missed flights, bad service, etc. There's really nothing new here. It seems to make people feel better to dog pile on Shares and the CEO, because it's easy and they don't fight back. The obvious truth is, the free giveaways have been reduced. It's actually amusing when a few defectors gloated that they now love AA because they threw them a few free things. Apparently that's the difference between leaving UA and going with AA, 2 lounge passes, and a form letter.

Fact is, there's nothing new to see here. And management knows it.

No, it's definitely worse, between upgrade rates, IRROPS issues, anything SHARES related, labor/management problems, morale, etc.

You downplay the AA experience, it's not just getting "freebies" - it's feeling valued again, that you'll be taken care of if things go sour, and that they're not trying to sell things out from under your feet. COdbaUA is not like anymore.

+1

As a 1K for nearly 20 years and AA EXP for most of the past decade, I used to place the two airlines on par, with advantages and disadvantages to each. Now, the pendulum has swung way in AA's favor in many concrete ways that go way beyond a "2 lounge passes and a form letter" and that generally translate into a much more customer-friendly culture. I'm not saying AA is ideal - what company is? - but the difference between the two airlines is approaching night and day.

wpr, if UA still works well for you, that's great. And if you find some folks preference for AA "amusing", have a good time. But the fact that you're personally "not seeing any of this" doesn't mean that UA has not gone downhill in manifold ways. Many of us are putting more $$ into AA tickets and less (or nothing) into UA these days for specific reasons that go beyond a few minor perks or a form letter.

I just thought of another question. Why do they have an SVP of customer experience? SVPs are expensive and this company is about nothing but making more money in the short term. And, there is no customer service anyway. So, why pay for an SVP of something nonexistent?

Agreed, seems like they are wasting my revenue dollars I've been sending them. Another example of wasting my money away!

An incident as occured here to a F passanger traveling to Australia should be duly noted.

No. Today or tmrw I believe

Hoping the OP will record the call "for quality assurance purposes."

No. Today or tmrw I believe

There are some great thoughts and suggestions here...Not much I can add that is new to the discussion, other than I would debunk his 'talking points' before he has a chance to mention them, and see what he truly has to say...

"I know that you're going to tell me the same thing that Smisek tells me on the video--that you have the Dreamliner coming soon, and that you have a great route network...But frankly, between the extra seat across you're cramming into every Y row on the 787, and the fact that it's one airframe amongst a massive fleet--that's no incentive for me to stay. Additionally, while the route network is expansive, AA gets me to everywhere I go--and if they don't, their partners surely will."

I'm not suggesting saying this in a combative tone, but taking away his 'ammo' before he even has a chance to say it, might lead to him grasping for straws and you may get more accurate answers.

+1

As a 1K for nearly 20 years and AA EXP for most of the past decade, I used to place the two airlines on par, with advantages and disadvantages to each. Now, the pendulum has swung way in AA's favor in many concrete ways that go way beyond a "2 lounge passes and a form letter" and that generally translate into a much more customer-friendly culture. I'm not saying AA is ideal - what company is? - but the difference between the two airlines is approaching night and day.

wpr, if UA still works well for you, that's great. And if you find some folks preference for AA "amusing", have a good time. But the fact that you're personally "not seeing any of this" doesn't mean that UA has not gone downhill in manifold ways. Many of us are putting more $$ into AA tickets and less (or nothing) into UA these days for specific reasons that go beyond a few minor perks or a form letter.

I'm not going to get into a contest debating the merits of AA vs UA, or how UA is substantially worse than before 3/3. It servers no purpose since most of the same players have an axe to grind.

I'm just letting you Angry Birds know that your experience is not reflected in my experiences, and I fly a lot. And I live in New York, not HNL or LAX with perfect weather.

Are there problems, sure. Are they the same they've always had, yes.

So back on topic; please tell Mr. Hand, that we are all not going to march outside Wacker with pitch forks. I'm content with the merger, patient that Rome was not built in a day, and things need time be rectified.

No. Today or tmrw I believe

See if the Moderators will allow you to start a separate thread on the telephone call itself since this thread is about pre-call suggestions.

No. Today or tmrw I believe

I would bet he is aware of this thread. I'm hoping he still has the nerve left to call you.

I'm not going to get into a contest debating the merits of AA vs UA, or how UA is substantially worse than before 3/3. It servers no purpose since most of the same players have an axe to grind.

I'm just letting you Angry Birds know that your experience is not reflected in my experiences, and I fly a lot. And I live in New York, not HNL or LAX with perfect weather.

Are there problems, sure. Are they the same they've always had, yes.

So back on topic; please tell Mr. Hand, that we are all not going to march outside Wacker with pitch forks. I'm content with the merger, patient that Rome was not built in a day, and things need time be rectified.

Me, an Angry Bird? :mad::mad::mad::mad::(:mad::mad: :D

Again, good for you that your flights have gone so well. And it's good that you provide a perspective based on your experience, as in the first line I bolded. All I'm suggesting is to be cautious about extrapolating from your own experience to draw conclusions (as in the second bolded line) that runs contrary to many other posts and threads in this forum.

All I'm suggesting is to be cautious about extrapolating from your own experience to draw conclusions (as in the second bolded line) that runs contrary to many other posts and threads in this forum.

Exactly my point. Don't draw a comprehensive conclusion based off the postings on here.

Don't draw a comprehensive conclusion based off the postings on here.

Let me add my congratulations to you that you've experienced such good fortune on UA of late.

However - and this is a serious question - if you don't think a conclusion can be based on the postings of many, many, many people (almost ALL of whom "fly a lot") here, where EXACTLY would you look for such a conclusion?

Dave

Let me add my congratulations to you that you've experienced such good fortune on UA of late.

However - and this is a serious question - if you don't think a conclusion can be based on the postings of many, many, many people (almost ALL of whom "fly a lot") here, where EXACTLY would you look for such a conclusion?
-



Poster wpr8e is such a lucky UA passenger. As to the answer to the question of where to find a conclusion, let Lewis Carol come to the rescue:

O UA customers', said Smisek,
You've had a pleasant run!
Shall we be flying home again?'
But answer came there none —
And this was scarcely odd, because
Smisek had demoted every one."
-

Let me add my congratulations to you that you've experienced such good fortune on UA of late.

However - and this is a serious question - if you don't think a conclusion can be based on the postings of many, many, many people (almost ALL of whom "fly a lot") here, where EXACTLY would you look for such a conclusion?

Dave

Well stated!


I'm just letting you Angry Birds know that your experience is not reflected in my experiences, and I fly a lot. And I live in New York, not HNL or LAX with perfect weather.
I fly a lot as well...nearly 200K per year...and we live near LAX and our experience has been terrible...even with good weather!...and I am talking about nearly 100 vFFs who work for me...and my two GS bosses...we have experienced meltdown after meltdown...and every one of our "friendly competitors" I have talked to has said the same thing. It is no wonder we left for AA and almost any other airline this past December...and remember this is after nearly 35 years of having UA as a preferred carrier! The many UA VPs and suits that we have talked to over the past six months have all said the same things..."things will get better soon"..."we underestimated the learning curve needed to switch to Shares"...and the classic "we have the best and largest network" and "we will soon have the 787" Well, from my admittedly limited experience with UA the last couple of months (only 7 segments), things are not better and the "competitent" customer service we were used to is no longer! For me, this is the main issue that needs to be addressed in any conversation with United...Just don't expect any answers of substance!

Are there problems, sure. Are they the same they've always had, yes. No, they are not...we have experienced issues the last 6-8 months that are mind boggling...and this is backed up by nearly all of the UA ground staff I know who indicate that it has been a "living hell" working with the new rules and warped corporate mindset of "we know better"...how you treat your employees is a good indication of how you will treat your customers...so far, not so good!

So back on topic; please tell Mr. Hand, that we are all not going to march outside Wacker with pitch forks. I'm content with the merger, patient that Rome was not built in a day, and things need time be rectified.
You are probably correct...we will not march outside Wacker...rather, we will "march" to AA, DL and any number of carriers that still know what "good" customer service is! And when it comes to spending our hard earned travel budget, we are not prepared to wait for the "new" United to get its act together.

I hope Mr. Hand listens to the OP...but from experience, there will be no admission of serious problems and the answers will be "canned" and "nebulous" at best. I wish the OP luck!

... I'm content with the merger...
That is - and I truly mean this - great for the 3 of you who feel that way.

Let me add my congratulations to you that you've experienced such good fortune on UA of late.

However - and this is a serious question - if you don't think a conclusion can be based on the postings of many, many, many people (almost ALL of whom "fly a lot") here, where EXACTLY would you look for such a conclusion?

Dave

I question the use of the word many. There's a repetitive number of posts from a group of people. Maybe 25? Maybe 50? Maybe 200? It's still small numbers compared to 30 million Mileage Plus members.

Please keep in mind that this site is overly skewed to complaints, not rah rah "I love this company." So the perception that there's a revolt from the United customer base across all customers is skewed. I don't think it's happening. Planes are still full and LF% is up.

But then again I never understand why people who have bad experiences decide to go to a website and complain. What do they expect to gain?

Please keep in mind that this site is overly skewed to complaints, not rah rah "I love this company." So the perception that there's a revolt from the United customer base across all customers is skewed. I don't think it's happening. Planes are still full and LF% is up.

High loads != profitable flying, but a better indication of a cut in capacity

May was a piss poor RASM month, and it's looking like Q2 overall isn't going to be much better. Can't wait to see the official results.

I question the use of the word many. There's a repetitive number of posts from a group of people. Maybe 25? Maybe 50? Maybe 200? It's still small numbers compared to 30 million Mileage Plus members.

The numbers leaked by AA on the EXP status matches were pretty jaw-dropping.


Please keep in mind that this site is overly skewed to complaints, not rah rah "I love this company."

Amazing how things change over time.

Worth noting, UA's Facebook and Twitter sites aren't exactly overflowing with compliments either.


So the perception that there's a revolt from the United customer base across all customers is skewed. I don't think it's happening. Planes are still full and LF% is up.

The only people who know the numbers are UA. They have the data on their customers and whether they're flying more or less now than before. The only thing we're going to get on this site is anecdotal evidence.

Any anecdotal evidence can be quickly dismissed by their pure numbers. Like you say, 200 GSes and 1Ks moving to AA isn't going to sink United. The problem is, what about the others who feel the same way and aren't on FT? Or the others that FTers have influence over?

I ran into some random GS in the club, and we started talking. He was in hte process of moving to DL.

One of UA's senior execs recently said they have a trust issue with their customers, and that has to improve (it may have been Mr. Hand). I think many in the organization realize it's bad and people are bolting.

There is a lot here, I haven't read it all, but boil it down to this:

1. You have a mile long list of bullet points here, collect them up and read them out. The details of each you won't be able to get across but the fact there is such a LONG list (and most are from changes since the merger, maybe group them together) will say volumes.

2. Why isn't United listening?? They have a multitude of social media channels but they are not communicating to the customers: A) acknowledging customer concerns B) keeping a running status of what they are doing about each. That's what we REALLY want to hear.

All in all it is clear that the value of the key customers is much less to United after the merger and we notice [CFO said it himself].... that's why you switched to AA. Might want to cite some other switchers and the revenue they said they moved.

All in all it is clear that the value of the key customers is much less to United after the merger and we notice [CFO said it himself].... that's why you switched to AA. Might want to cite some other switchers and the revenue they said they moved.

I don't believe that is either a) what the CFO said, nor b) what the CFO meant. Just becuase there is a 1 sided thread where the CFO was misquoted terribly for the 1st few thousand views, (I believe the original title was something like "CFO Rainey says elites are overentitled") then misquoted a bit less to "United CFO Rainey Implies Certain Elites were 'Over Entitled'" from the actual quote of "We have certain groups in this (Mileage Plus) program that were over entitled..."

Even those misquotes are far from him saying that "the value of key customers is much less to United after the merger"

Why do people like to twist things and interpret them in ways that suit their needs for the moment? Why can't people just quote something and then express what they think someone meant as a stated opinion instead of attributiing false quotes or statements to a person?

This is one of the reasons why, when I hear a 1 sided rant here, where members "quote" what an airline rep says something, I discount it. People (especially on internet forums/blogs) rarely quote the actual words, they make stuff up and say that someone else said it, becuase that is what best supports their position. Facts are facts, quotes should be quotes, attributing a thought to a person should be something that a person said. All else is just B.S./libel/slander/perjury. Whatever happened to "Just the facts"?

The experience of UA flyers since 3/3 has varied widely. For me, the focus has shifted from the broken upgrade system, and numerous MileagePlus, web and res. glitches to an increasing number of operational delays and cancellations.

So if I were speaking to a UA Sr. Exec., I would raise these issues; not because my initial concerns about upgrades and web. and res glitches are unimportant or they have gone away, but because the growing number of operational glitches will more certainly drive me away from UA after 18 years as 1K.

These operational failures affect all travelers and crew, but esp. we who travel most often and dramatically affect the reasons for travel (trip-in-vain being the most serious consequence). Moreover these problems show that the airline is regressing severely or is managed incompetently.

Just a few specifics about the growing operational problems: I rarely have a UA flight leave or arrive on time, even given the cushioned sked. Almost all delays I've had are chargeable to UA (delayed boarding process, no available gate at arriving airport, delayed "paperwork", crew scheduling problems, many mechanicals), and not to weather or ATC. Re the lack of arrival gate, 15 of my last 16 6:0X a.m. trips SFO to LAX have arrived late -- often 15 minutes or more. UA seems unable to act on the basic principle that if SFO departs a 6:0X a.m. aircraft reasonably on time, that it should arrive at an LAX arrival gate before 7:30 a.m. 95%+ of the time.

Ops. problems which legacy UA solved several years ago, have now reappeared, such as no jetway driver arriving at the gate for 30 minutes after the a/c blocked in (UA 841 27 Jun 2012, LAX->SFO) or, one I never saw before: a 6 a.m. SFO-LAX several weeks ago -- everyone was at the departure gate (crew, agents, pax) but ops. failed to order or get to the gate an aircraft to do the trip. What was UA's solution when it realized this 20 mins. before departure time: ask all pax and crew to high-tail it to the farthest gate away in a different terminal to board an a.c. commandeered from a later flight. Not a pleasant experience at 5:45 a.m.

I don't believe that is either a) what the CFO said, nor b) what the CFO meant. Just becuase there is a 1 sided thread where the CFO was misquoted terribly for the 1st few thousand views, (I believe the original title was something like "CFO Rainey says elites are overentitled") then misquoted a bit less to "United CFO Rainey Implies Certain Elites were 'Over Entitled'" from the actual quote of "We have certain groups in this (Mileage Plus) program that were over entitled..."

Even those misquotes are far from him saying that "the value of key customers is much less to United after the merger"

Why do people like to twist things and interpret them in ways that suit their needs for the moment? Why can't people just quote something and then express what they think someone meant as a stated opinion instead of attributiing false quotes or statements to a person?

If COdbaUA leadership didn't think ALL elites were overentitled (based on their contribution to the airline topline/bottom line), they wouldn't have given a haircut on the benefits to EVERY elite level. Even GS has seen a cut on some of their unofficial benefits (the 5 day/5 seat rule).

And it's pretty clear that the formerly highly-valued 1Ks, whether officially (RPU earning, meal choice) or not (1K line, IRROPS), are no longer desirable for the airline.

And it's pretty clear that the formerly highly-valued 1Ks, whether officially (RPU earning, meal choice) or not (1K line, IRROPS), are no longer desirable for the airline.

Well, this Q&A chance by the OP will give him the opportunity to test that statement of yours. a) If a few people who have already left have spoken with sr mgmt (at sr mgmt's initiation,) does that support your statement or contradict it? b) The OP can ask the question directly. If your statement were true, then why would they still offer GS/1K...benefits above the baseline level offered to non-members? The facts do not support your statement.

Well, this Q&A chance by the OP will give him the opportunity to test that statement of yours. a) If a few people who have already left have spoken with sr mgmt (at sr mgmt's initiation,) does that support your statement or contradict it? b) The OP can ask the question directly. If your statement were true, then why would they still offer GS/1K...benefits above the baseline level offered to non-members? The facts do not support your statement.

Just because they offer 1K doesn't mean they really want to. PMUA actively catered to 1Ks...COdbaUA, not so much.

That would be the death knell if they cut it and went back to a 75K Plat top tier...elites would run for the AA/DL exists.

The facts about the official/unofficial 1K cuts most definitely do support my statement however.

The numbers leaked by AA on the EXP status matches were pretty jaw-dropping.


Where did you see this? I missed it.

I don't believe that is either a) what the CFO said, nor b) what the CFO meant. Just becuase there is a 1 sided thread where the CFO was misquoted terribly for the 1st few thousand views, (I believe the original title was something like "CFO Rainey says elites are overentitled") then misquoted a bit less to "United CFO Rainey Implies Certain Elites were 'Over Entitled'" from the actual quote of "We have certain groups in this (Mileage Plus) program that were over entitled..."

Even those misquotes are far from him saying that "the value of key customers is much less to United after the merger"

Why do people like to twist things and interpret them in ways that suit their needs for the moment? Why can't people just quote something and then express what they think someone meant as a stated opinion instead of attributiing false quotes or statements to a person?

This is one of the reasons why, when I hear a 1 sided rant here, where members "quote" what an airline rep says something, I discount it. People (especially on internet forums/blogs) rarely quote the actual words, they make stuff up and say that someone else said it, becuase that is what best supports their position. Facts are facts, quotes should be quotes, attributing a thought to a person should be something that a person said. All else is just B.S./libel/slander/perjury. Whatever happened to "Just the facts"?

^^^. Thank you FASTAIR for saying this. This shows exactly how FT is not a good indicator of anything and "facts" are made to fit what people want to believe. I was the one that kept insisting the OP of that thread change the title. It was very misleading and even though he did, look how many point to what the CFO said as "proof" of something. I am sure he meant EXACTLY what he said and there is a big argument for his point. All he said was "some members". The word Elites was never used. He went on to say from a business standpoint, they would rather do things like sell E+ seats then give them to silvers

If anyone in the C suite really read this stuff, they must be laughing away. How many people on here have said he should be fired or he must be paying for his comments. His comments were dead on target for what he wanted to sat and I'm sure he meant every word of it. No where did he even elude to Elites. He certainly did not declare war on us

Well, this Q&A chance by the OP will give him the opportunity to test that statement of yours. a) If a few people who have already left have spoken with sr mgmt (at sr mgmt's initiation,) does that support your statement or contradict it? b) The OP can ask the question directly. If your statement were true, then why would they still offer GS/1K...benefits above the baseline level offered to non-members? The facts do not support your statement.

offer doesn't equal receive. we USED to receive...not so much anymore. people debate based on their own experiences. their experiences (certainly mine) support the statement and what i deem as the facts.

I don't believe that is either a) what the CFO said, nor b) what the CFO meant.

I really do appreciate your contribution on this thread. A breath of fresh air and a sanity check for those of us "who think we know", especially about HAL.

HAL Quote of the Day

HAL- "I know I've made some very poor decisions recently, but I can give you my complete assurance that my work will be back to normal. I've still got the greatest enthusiasm and confidence in the mission. And I want to help you."

I will say this however. We all know what the CFO meant. In fact, you can search my posts from well before he made that comment and will see that I posted a UA employee told me personally that exact same thing.

So you put those two comments of the same message together and it doesn't take much to realize there's a common theme. There is no way I think he was talking about Silvers. It's my position he was talking about most all Elite levels. You won't convince me otherwise.

You can't get the same identical message from two different people within the Org, without it being something talked/commented about internally in a BIG way and only about "one" group-Silvers. The resentment these folks harbor for the pmUA Elite passengers is astonishing to the point of costing COdbaUA some business. How much? Who knows? Time will answer that.

Here's what I think I do know. Smi/J did not come out and try to "explain" what Rainey said and what it was supposed to mean. Silence proved to me the comment was all-encompassing. Reason being, if they thought the comment was going to run-off many of the Elite pax and didn't want to lose them, they would have been "explaining/defending" pretty darn quickly. That didn't happen.

BUT, maybe they thought because of the Route network and the 787 coming on board, folks wouldn't leave. Somewhat warped thinking just by itself. Oh wait, was that said or am I mis-quoting?

^^^. Thank you FASTAIR for saying this. This shows exactly how FT is not a good indicator of anything and "facts" are made to fit what people want to believe. I was the one that kept insisting the OP of that thread change the title. It was very misleading and even though he did, look how many point to what the CFO said as "proof" of something. I am sure he meant EXACTLY what he said and there is a big argument for his point. All he said was "some members". The word Elites was never used. He went on to say from a business standpoint, they would rather do things like sell E+ seats then give them to silvers
If anyone in the C suite really read this stuff, they must be laughing away. How many people on here have said he should be fired or he must be paying for his comments. His comments were dead on target for what he wanted to sat and I'm sure he meant every word of it. No where did he even elude to Elites. He certainly did not declare war on us

<bolding mine>

I don't understand. If the "members" he was referring to aren't "elites" then who are they? General members?

Also, IIRC, UA's stated reason for yanking E+ at booking for 2Ps was to ensure better E+ access for last-minute, higher-level elites. It wasn't to upsell E+ to 2Ps.

So how was your call with Mr. Hand? Did he tell you everything you wanted to hear?

2. Why isn't United listening?? They have a multitude of social media channels but they are not communicating to the customers: A) acknowledging customer concerns B) keeping a running status of what they are doing about each. That's what we REALLY want to hear.


When one is always right one doesn't have to listen? :eek:

In fact, what communication pre-pss switchover there was seems to have all but stopped.

High loads != profitable flying, but a better indication of a cut in capacity

May was a piss poor RASM month, and it's looking like Q2 overall isn't going to be much better. Can't wait to see the official results.

Exactly right. Planes are full because they cut capacity and they have an outrageous overbooking policy for all cabins. And, now, the planes are full of kettles who pay kettle fares and then move into F on a TOD as distinct from planes that were 90% full with loyal business flyers on high fares.

One of the most fundamental rules of business and management is that you get what you measure. If you build a set of business metrics that count each 1K as a drain and each kettle as a plus, then those metrics will drive you to fill airplanes with kettles. And, this seems to be what they're doing.

The only meaningful data will be the quarterly financial results. That cuts through all the crap and tells us what's really going on.

They can claim that we're a bunch of over-entitled bloodsuckers as much as they want. If getting rid of us increases profitability, maybe they're right. Else, the truth will be shown.

If COdbaUA leadership didn't think ALL elites were overentitled (based on their contribution to the airline topline/bottom line), they wouldn't have given a haircut on the benefits to EVERY elite level. Even GS has seen a cut on some of their unofficial benefits (the 5 day/5 seat rule).

And it's pretty clear that the formerly highly-valued 1Ks, whether officially (RPU earning, meal choice) or not (1K line, IRROPS), are no longer desirable for the airline.

+1

These are the FACTS that demonstrate how Rainey and the HouCrew really think about us. Words are irrelevant. Quotes are irrelevant. The actual facts are the drastic reduction in benefits that we've experienced, combined with all the other stuff we've discussed ad nauseum.

The only meaningful data will be the quarterly financial results. That cuts through all the crap and tells us what's really going on.

They can claim that we're a bunch of over-entitled bloodsuckers as much as they want. If getting rid of us increases profitability, maybe they're right. Else, the truth will be shown.

As much as I share your distaste for the direction UA has taken, I do wonder whether the next quarter or two or even three will tell the tale of whether management's approach is succeeding. For one thing, financial results hinge partly on factors having nothing to do with that approach, not least fuel prices. For another, it may take time for passengers, ranging from elites to occasional customers to change their travel patterns.

Now, I know far less about airline profitability than many or most in this forum, so I wouldn't mind being proven wrong (especially if this year's quarterly results provide a comeuppance to management). But I still suspect that if its approach drives customers away it will take the form of a steady stream over time rather than a relative flood this year.

Now, I know far less about airline profitability than many or most in this forum, so I wouldn't mind being proven wrong (especially if this year's quarterly results provide a comeuppance to management). But I still suspect that if its approach drives customers away it will take the form of a steady stream over time rather than a relative flood this year.

I bet Q2 RASM severly trails the industry. As most business travel is booked less than a month out, the entirety of Q2 was basically booked post-3/3 when all the issues started. Given all the issues observed right away, I bet there was a heavy mindset of "stay away".

So LFs might be good (leisure travelers and the like), but RASM might take a hit.

Can't wait!

I was handed Martin Hands email address and a shhhhh from someone at UAL.

I had a list of 7 issues (missing mileage, incorrect things posted to my account, lack of reply from 1K voice a few of them)

He had all of them resolved within 2 hours of my initial email to him. Including an apologetic email from 1k Voice for the 3 week delay in replying.

I hope your call goes well. I am enjoying the reaching out they seem to be doing lately, but, I am wondering if it is a there there pat on the back as they continue their way of doing things. When I see some changes to the new "situations" I will be a little more optimistic with more of the picture.

Just because they offer 1K doesn't mean they really want to. PMUA actively catered to 1Ks...COdbaUA, not so much.

That would be the death knell if they cut it and went back to a 75K Plat top tier...elites would run for the AA/DL exists.

The facts about the official/unofficial 1K cuts most definitely do support my statement however.


-

^ Precisely ^ :p
-

I don't believe that is either a) what the CFO said, nor b) what the CFO meant. Just becuase there is a 1 sided thread where the CFO was misquoted terribly for the 1st few thousand views, (I believe the original title was something like "CFO Rainey says elites are overentitled") then misquoted a bit less to "United CFO Rainey Implies Certain Elites were 'Over Entitled'" from the actual quote of "We have certain groups in this (Mileage Plus) program that were over entitled..."

Even those misquotes are far from him saying that "the value of key customers is much less to United after the merger"

Why do people like to twist things and interpret them in ways that suit their needs for the moment? Why can't people just quote something and then express what they think someone meant as a stated opinion instead of attributiing false quotes or statements to a person?

This is one of the reasons why, when I hear a 1 sided rant here, where members "quote" what an airline rep says something, I discount it. People (especially on internet forums/blogs) rarely quote the actual words, they make stuff up and say that someone else said it, becuase that is what best supports their position. Facts are facts, quotes should be quotes, attributing a thought to a person should be something that a person said. All else is just B.S./libel/slander/perjury. Whatever happened to "Just the facts"?

OK, let's de-bunk this bull once and for all. I, and hundreds of thousands of others heard from the new CFO's own voice his use of the words "Over-Entitled." Prior to that day I don't think I EVER heard that compound word before. Argue and spin all you like about how he only meant one class or another but it is still off the point. It is the CFO using a term he picked-up from the management team indicating the solid belief that the airline was giving too much to their customers. Do I as a 1K think I was swept-up in that wide broom despite their silly explanation? You bet. Ask me how my irrops have gone...ask me about my upgrade experiences...ask me about 1K service level....ask me about a thousand other things where my past "entitlements" have gone way down below what was and still is promised but not delivered.

He said what he meant and it was interpreted correctly - the HouCrew currently destroying the United name thinks the customer is the problem.

Stop the childish and belittling arguments that it was misinterpreted. It wasn't. They spilled the beans on an open microphone that was recorded and were caught - period.

OK, let's de-bunk this bull once and for all. I, and hundreds of thousands of others heard from the new CFO's own voice his use of the words "Over-Entitled." Prior to that day I don't think I EVER heard that compound word before. Argue and spin all you like about how he only meant one class or another but it is still off the point. It is the CFO using a term he picked-up from the management team indicating the solid belief that the airline was giving too much to their customers. Do I as a 1K think I was swept-up in that wide broom despite their silly explanation? You bet. Ask me how my irrops have gone...ask me about my upgrade experiences...ask me about 1K service level....ask me about a thousand other things where my past "entitlements" have gone way down below what was and still is promised but not delivered.

He said what he meant and it was interpreted correctly - the HouCrew currently destroying the United name think the customer is the problem.

Stop the childish and belittling arguments that it was misinterpreted. It wasn't. They spilled the beans on an open microphine that was recorded and were caught - period.

^^^^^

OK, let's de-bunk this bull once and for all. I, and hundreds of thousands of others heard from the new CFO's own voice his use of the words "Over-Entitled." Prior to that day I don't think I EVER heard that compound word before. Argue and spin all you like about how he only meant one class or another but it is still off the point. It is the CFO using a term he picked-up from the management team indicating the solid belief that the airline was giving too much to their customers. Do I as a 1K think I was swept-up in that wide broom despite their silly explanation? You bet. Ask me how my irrops have gone...ask me about my upgrade experiences...ask me about 1K service level....ask me about a thousand other things where my past "entitlements" have gone way down below what was and still is promised but not delivered.

He said what he meant and it was interpreted correctly - the HouCrew currently destroying the United name think the customer is the problem.

Stop the childish and belittling arguments that it was misinterpreted. It wasn't. They spilled the beans on an open microphine that was recorded and were caught - period.

^^^^^

Nail. Hammer. Head.

Just to clarify here: For those who are leaving UA for AA or thinking of leaving, you are not giving up your UA status, correct? You can still use the benefits and come back at any time, right?

As for the phone call, I hope you can put in a word for those of us - and yes there are many of us - who don't have any status on UA, but still hope to enjoy a pleasant flight with sufficient legroom, decent IFE and cheerful employees and always hope that when we dial the call center, that we'll actually get to speak to someone here in the US.

OK, let's de-bunk this bull once and for all. I, and hundreds of thousands of others heard from the new CFO's own voice his use of the words "Over-Entitled." Prior to that day I don't think I EVER heard that compound word before. Argue and spin all you like about how he only meant one class or another but it is still off the point. It is the CFO using a term he picked-up from the management team indicating the solid belief that the airline was giving too much to their customers. Do I as a 1K think I was swept-up in that wide broom despite their silly explanation? You bet. Ask me how my irrops have gone...ask me about my upgrade experiences...ask me about 1K service level....ask me about a thousand other things where my past "entitlements" have gone way down below what was and still is promised but not delivered.

He said what he meant and it was interpreted correctly - the HouCrew currently destroying the United name think the customer is the problem.

Stop the childish and belittling arguments that it was misinterpreted. It wasn't. They spilled the beans on an open microphine that was recorded and were caught - period.

^^^^^

Nail. Hammer. Head.

^^^^^^^

I might have used words a bit less harsh than "childish and belittling", perhaps particularly because I've valued fastair's many contributions to this forum. But aside from that I'm with you 100 percent.

Just because they offer 1K doesn't mean they really want to. PMUA actively catered to 1Ks...COdbaUA, not so much.

That would be the death knell if they cut it and went back to a 75K Plat top tier...elites would run for the AA/DL exists.

The facts about the official/unofficial 1K cuts most definitely do support my statement however.

I personally think that's what they have done. Cut the program for GS/1K's, hell for that matter all Elites, but just haven't told anyone- except Silvers. When they get done manipulating the system for every given flight, AND they haven't been able to extract more money for seats the Elites should rightfully have had via their published Program and from GM's and Kettle's, then and only then do they offer them up to Elite's. These guys cannot be trusted.

I don't want to lose sight of fastairs post. He said something I can't believe he wanted to. Sticking up for the comment made by Rainey. Below is the url for the website that shows his actual comment and the slide that was being presented at the time he made it.

http://boardingarea.com/blogs/frequentlyflying/2012/05/19/united-cfo-certain-elites-were-over-entitled/

Rainey said, "We had certain groups in this (Mileage Plus) program that were over entitled, if you will. Now we've realigned the benefits of that program with what the customers and program participants are actually providing to the airline, and this is a good change going forward".

Rainey made those comments when he was showing a slide that said, among three other bullet points, "single loyalty program with better elite differentiation".

So fastair, you tell me how so many people couldn't come to the conclusion he truly didn't mean all "elites". Going back to his statement, he said "....certain groups", plural. Not singular, possibly meaning just Silver's.

Nope, there is not enough Kool-aid in this part of the hemisphere for me to drink to think he meant just Silvers. That holds true for my belief of how the rest of the C Suite Execs think about their loyal customer base, and I truly believe that mindset is having a negative and drastic effect on the rest of the organization.

It's more than time for the chairs on this Titanic to get shuffled. Things are getting worse, not better. A person can't believe everything that is written on this website, but it can be used as a barometer. Keep track, the disparaging posts continue to grow, not subside.

Very good documentation, ibuy. Thanks for providing it.

The numbers leaked by AA on the EXP status matches were pretty jaw-dropping.


Is there a link to this? I must have missed it & I am curious.

Is there a link to this? I must have missed it & I am curious.

It was mentioned in the AA status match thread. It was in the thousands fairly early on.

The fact that AA had to throttle the status match from all UA Elites to just 1K/GS after only a few days should also give an indication of the popularity of the promo.

It was mentioned in the AA status match thread. It was in the thousands fairly early on.

The fact that AA had to throttle the status match from all UA Elites to just 1K/GS after only a few days should also give an indication of the popularity of the promo.

I found this:


A customer service agent told me that they received 5 thousand requests on Friday alone. She said that she expects it will take at least 10 days to review all the requests. She also said that the people who send the emails are not the same people who approve the match.

Exactly right. Planes are full because they cut capacity and they have an outrageous overbooking policy for all cabins. And, now, the planes are full of kettles who pay kettle fares and then move into F on a TOD as distinct from planes that were 90% full with loyal business flyers on high fares.

One of the most fundamental rules of business and management is that you get what you measure. If you build a set of business metrics that count each 1K as a drain and each kettle as a plus, then those metrics will drive you to fill airplanes with kettles. And, this seems to be what they're doing.

The only meaningful data will be the quarterly financial results. That cuts through all the crap and tells us what's really going on.

They can claim that we're a bunch of over-entitled bloodsuckers as much as they want. If getting rid of us increases profitability, maybe they're right. Else, the truth will be shown.

+1. Well, we are getting close. I agree with every word you just posted ^

I think it's important to bear in mind that there are different types of flyers including different types of very frequent flyers.... domestic vs. international, OMP vs. pay out of your own pocket, etc. Each type has different concerns and behavior and UA (presumably) has a different strategy for maximizing revenue from each type. I think it will be hard to generalize and have a conversation if you try to lump all of us into one bucket. Much better I think it you can talk about your own situation and how it typifies a specific type of flyer.

I guess the one overriding point I would try to make is that there is big difference between maximizing revenue per flight and maximizing annual revenue per customer. The bean counters focus on the former, but in fact a lot of us have a choice as to which carrier we fly and how often we fly. Long term the way for UA to make money is to provide, service, pricing and benefits which keeps us loyal to UA and makes flying bearable (if not pleasant) so that we travel more.

The bean counters focus on the former, but in fact a lot of us have a choice as to which carrier we fly and how often we fly. Long term the way for UA to make money is to provide, service, pricing and benefits which keeps us loyal to UA and makes flying bearable (if not pleasant) so that we travel more.
^ Nicely put!

This question of short/long term profitability is one that I'd dearly love to have Mr. Hand's input on. I suspect the OP won't really be given as much insight into that as we might like, but I hope he/she can glean a bit of it from the conversation.

Dave

I don't want to lose sight of fastairs post. He said something I can't believe he wanted to. Sticking up for the comment made by Rainey.

Huge difference between "sticking up for a comment" (i.e. defening it as others have stated I have done) and asking for it to be used as stated and not twisted into so many different things and posted as the original quote/thought. The comment was stupid, no matter how one interprets it in a setting that was public. But to translate one statement into 2 or 3 others that each have differing meanings and attribute those meanings to the CFO is what I defend. I hate misinformatuion. I hate it at work, I hate it in politics, and I hate it here. People are free to interpret the statement anyway they want, but to then come on this board and post that the CFo said something that he didn't is what is wrong.

The person that I quoted said that the CFO said "the value of key customers is much less to United after the merger" Now that poster wasn't quotin him, but stated that the CFO said so much. That isn't what the CFO said, and I doubt it was what he meant. Really, "key" customers value is less? A key customer is desgnated internally by the vender, not by the customer (unless the customer is a DYKWIA, in which case the customer designates himself key in every situation.) How can anyone say that the CFO said this and expect to notbe calld on it. And the drones of people rushing to defend this misquote by Riney, claiming it was exactly what he really wanted to say (instead of what he did) makes me assume you are all clarovoiant. When twisting someone's words into things that weren't said, the phrases "I believe", or "I think he meant" are goo disclaimers, but the phrase "He said" really is a lie. Argue with facts, not lies, that's all I ask, don't put quotes into people's mouths that they didn't say. Hang him with his own words, not with the words that came out of your (collective) heads.

Update. Waiting to hear back as to when we will talk. I Sugegsted yesterday or today and have not heard back. I hope he hasn't cancelled on me after seeing this thread!


I compilied a list of my personal issues and the universal ones most people seem to mention.
I also have some question for him.

At the end of the cal I will suggest he reads this thread. If nothing else it will help United understand their best customers and ultimately help them build a better airline and business.

I'll report back once (IF! the cal happens!

Update. Waiting to hear back as to when we will talk. I Sugegsted yesterday or today and have not heard back. I hope he hasn't cancelled on me after seeing this thread!


I compilied a list of my personal issues and the universal ones most people seem to mention.
I also have some question for him.

At the end of the cal I will suggest he reads this thread. If nothing else it will help United understand their best customers and ultimately help them build a better airline and business.

I'll report back once (IF! the cal happens!

If he suspects you carry a laundry list of other peoples issues to discuss it may be much less of a priority for him to speak to you.

If he suspects you carry a laundry list of other peoples issues to discuss it may be much less of a priority for him to speak to you.

I would have thought - or at least hoped - that he'd be all the more interested if he knows TIMOS has lots of info to share. Could be, though, that he's reluctant to talk if he knows that whatever he says will be reported online...this would be a very unfortunate attitude to take. But I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and hope he does get in touch shortly, TIMOS.

Could be, though, that he's reluctant to talk if he knows that whatever he says will be reported online...this would be a very unfortunate attitude to take.

More likely that it could be that he's reluctant to speak with someone he now knows is prepared to reognize his lies. Con men move on quickly when they realize they are engaging someone who is not an easy mark...

A lack of courage to face up to a dissatisfied group of important customers will be quite telling. If I had a manager refuse to acknowledge issues like we are talking about I would seriously consider making a change in personnel.

How we handle adversity determines our worth as human beings.

A lack of courage to face up to a dissatisfied group of important customers will be quite telling. If I had a manager refuse to acknowledge issues like we are talking about I would seriously consider making a change in personnel.

How we handle adversity determines our worth as human beings.

You obviosly don't run a company that cherishes a culture of deceit and lies. Continental does - all the way up to the "changes I know you will like" CEO.

Really, stop to think about how pitiful a human being someone must be to discuss terms like "over-entitled" behind closed doors but stand in front of a camera and tell his customers that they will like the changes. That culture just festers on downward to all relations with employees and customers.

based on chinatrader's experience, maybe he will call you at midnight...

Update. Waiting to hear back as to when we will talk. I Sugegsted yesterday or today and have not heard back. I hope he hasn't cancelled on me after seeing this thread!
(snip)
I'll report back once (IF! the cal happens!

How we handle adversity determines our worth as human beings.

What would that tell us about the worth of CO executive management?

I think it's important to bear in mind that there are different types of flyers including different types of very frequent flyers.... domestic vs. international, OMP vs. pay out of your own pocket, etc. Each type has different concerns and behavior and UA (presumably) has a different strategy for maximizing revenue from each type. I think it will be hard to generalize and have a conversation if you try to lump all of us into one bucket. Much better I think it you can talk about your own situation and how it typifies a specific type of flyer.

I guess the one overriding point I would try to make is that there is big difference between maximizing revenue per flight and maximizing annual revenue per customer. The bean counters focus on the former, but in fact a lot of us have a choice as to which carrier we fly and how often we fly. Long term the way for UA to make money is to provide, service, pricing and benefits which keeps us loyal to UA and makes flying bearable (if not pleasant) so that we travel more.

Someone recently posted that we should stop making things up based on generalities and instead talk about facts and experience. It is a good idea. From that, I'll say that I'm a 1K who flies often on high fares, sometimes on full fares, and I have never gamed the system or done any of the other "tricks" to get more value than intended at a lower price than expected. From that, I consider myself to legitimately be a high value flier. I fly a lot, and I pay a lot for it. And, it's clear that Rainey considers me to be an over-entitled leech who should be ejected by the way his airline has started treating me since they took over and by the extreme and overwhelming devaluation or elimination of benefits. Let's not fool ourselves into thinking these idiots are really smart managers who are paring out the low value fliers. That just isn't true. They are attacking and destroying the heart of their business as though it was a disease.

So, Friday is nearly over, and nothing? Silence? I've always said that these problems start at the top.

Someone recently posted that we should stop making things up based on generalities and instead talk about facts and experience. It is a good idea. From that, I'll say that I'm a 1K who flies often on high fares, sometimes on full fares, and I have never gamed the system or done any of the other "tricks" to get more value than intended at a lower price than expected. From that, I consider myself to legitimately be a high value flier. I fly a lot, and I pay a lot for it. And, it's clear that Rainey considers me to be an over-entitled leech who should be ejected by the way his airline has started treating me since they took over and by the extreme and overwhelming devaluation or elimination of benefits. Let's not fool ourselves into thinking these idiots are really smart managers who are paring out the low value fliers. That just isn't true. They are attacking and destroying the heart of their business as though it was a disease.

Ditto. I'm flying my fare share of $2/mile flights. I consider that premium flying and I'm getting treated worse than if I take the bus.

Really, stop to think about how pitiful a human being someone must be to discuss terms like "over-entitled" behind closed doors but stand in front of a camera and tell his customers that they will like the changes. That culture just festers on downward to all relations with employees and customers.

It does.

Many PMUA GAs and FAs are just as sick of the lies as we are.

While we hear "change you will like" or a video speech about how the passenger service system is going to bring things together, they hear talk about "dignity and respect" and "working together" all while I've had GAs tell me they're being scrutinized far more than ever.

It does.

Many PMUA GAs and FAs are just as sick of the lies as we are.

While we hear "change you will like" or a video speech about how the passenger service system is going to bring things together, they hear talk about "dignity and respect" and "working together" all while I've had GAs tell me they're being scrutinized far more than ever.

Scrutinized for what, exactly? That's what I'd like to know. I have never once, in my entire life of flying, experienced a case where a GA did something "against the rules" that was inappropriately harmful to the airline and beneficial to the consumer. Either they screw the consumer or they do the right thing for both parties. Never seen a case to the contrary. So, what is being scrutinized? The only thing left to destroy is the "doing the right thing for the customer" part of this equation.

Scrutinized for what, exactly? That's what I'd like to know. I have never once, in my entire life of flying, experienced a case where a GA did something "against the rules" that was inappropriately harmful to the airline and beneficial to the consumer. Either they screw the consumer or they do the right thing for both parties. Never seen a case to the contrary. So, what is being scrutinized? The only thing left to destroy is the "doing the right thing for the customer" part of this equation.

As W.C Fields said, "Never give a sucker an even break." :rolleyes:

Scrutinized for what, exactly? That's what I'd like to know. I have never once, in my entire life of flying, experienced a case where a GA did something "against the rules" that was inappropriately harmful to the airline and beneficial to the consumer. Either they screw the consumer or they do the right thing for both parties. Never seen a case to the contrary. So, what is being scrutinized? The only thing left to destroy is the "doing the right thing for the customer" part of this equation.

Not bending the rules, rather scrutinized for mistakes is what I've heard.

It explains a lot about why CO agents are afraid to help in many cases, and are very good at finding ways to blow off the customer.

Update. Waiting to hear back as to when we will talk. I Sugegsted yesterday or today and have not heard back. I hope he hasn't cancelled on me after seeing this thread!


I compilied a list of my personal issues and the universal ones most people seem to mention.
I also have some question for him.

At the end of the cal I will suggest he reads this thread. If nothing else it will help United understand their best customers and ultimately help them build a better airline and business.

I'll report back once (IF! the cal happens!


Maybe he cut out early for the upcoming holiday, hoping to beat the traffic.

Maybe he cut out early for the upcoming holiday, hoping to beat the traffic.

Maybe he read all the bileiferous* nonsense in this thread and said "screw those guys". Wouldn't blame him.

*Probably not a real word

Not bending the rules, rather scrutinized for mistakes is what I've heard.

It explains a lot about why CO agents are afraid to help in many cases, and are very good at finding ways to blow off the customer.

Oh, I see. So, for example, if a 1K is stuck on the wait-list because SHARES won't clear the PNR for UG, and the plane has 3 empty seats in F, then they're watching for mistakes like GA's who don't clear the 1K's into those seats before the plane takes off? That sounds like a change we should like. ;-)

Maybe he read all the bileiferous* nonsense in this thread and said "screw those guys". Wouldn't blame him.

*Probably not a real word

So you think we should be screwed?

...So you think we should be screwed?

I'm a PMCO guy. Been screwed longer than you guys...this nonsense is nothing new to me. I was getting POd in 2009 because CO was morphing into the mutant creature that you see before you. I just think some of the PMUA folks are a tad over the top on all this, to be honest.

...I just think some of the PMUA folks are a tad over the top on all this, to be honest.

We're not really over the top, it's just we have learned to expect much better and we simply need to lower our expectations (quite a bit) and once they are lowered, UAdbaCO can exceed them.

We're not really over the top, it's just we have learned to expect much better and we simply need to lower our expectations (quite a bit) and once they are lowered, UAdbaCO can exceed them.

Fair enough <sigh>. Wish CO management had done better with the merger...I used to be a big fan.

week is up...HQ is in chicago...guess he didn't follow through..hmm..big surprise...another unfulfilled promise and a complete lack of respect for your time...sounds familiar...

I'm a PMCO guy. Been screwed longer than you guys...this nonsense is nothing new to me. I was getting POd in 2009 because CO was morphing into the mutant creature that you see before you. I just think some of the PMUA folks are a tad over the top on all this, to be honest.

It's one thing to be continually screwed, as I'm imagining you were under PMCO. It's another thing to be screwed in new ways AND lied to about it. That's what's happened to us. The delta between past/present is much bigger for PMUA flyers than for PMCO flyers - and - while they were stripping our benefits, they were lying to us about what they were doing AND telling us we're going to like it.

I think that is what accounts for the "over the top" reactions you see from PMUA.

week is up...HQ is in chicago...guess he didn't follow through..hmm..big surprise...another unfulfilled promise and a complete lack of respect for your time...sounds familiar...

I would at least wait until the OP reports before such proclamations.

Not bending the rules, rather scrutinized for mistakes is what I've heard.

It explains a lot about why CO agents are afraid to help in many cases, and are very good at finding ways to blow off the customer.

Exactly. Just say no to everything...then there is nothing to do...and there is nothing to scrutinize. :eek::rolleyes:

I'm a PMCO guy. Been screwed longer than you guys...this nonsense is nothing new to me. I was getting POd in 2009 because CO was morphing into the mutant creature that you see before you. I just think some of the PMUA folks are a tad over the top on all this, to be honest.

CO used to be very good; I think they treated plats fairly well but they always had this attitude of all passengers are the same. It was more egalitarian (no 1K, no pres platinum) but I think we used to get plenty of upgrades and the staff was generally very good.
I agree that starting in 2009 we started seeing the selling of upgrades and little perks going away. Service also suffered with no meals, pillows, blankets, etc....

The new UA is just a continuation of this deterioration. I agree that for those that flew UA much more than CO it is a bigger shock. Unfortunately in the last year I flew only UA and not CO so I had a taste of the great service I received as 1K from UA.

It has been fun (frustrating, discouraging) to read this and other threads to get FF input post 3/3. Although I still think this is a listening tour, additional reading has prompted this question:

"As of today, on a scale of 1 to 10, where 10 is perfect, how would you rate your execution of your plan for the merged carriers." If it is anything greater than or equal to 6, time to jump ship. "What and how much time will it take for you to get to 10?"

Fair enough <sigh>. Wish CO management had done better with the merger...I used to be a big fan.


CO's product and CS have been on the decline for several years. I think the merger is helping to make the critical mass of ex-CO flyers aware of it.

Some of us figured it out years ago and moved on. I used to be a big fan as well, believe it or not. Several years ago, I would have been classified as a Rah Rah-er myself.

Update. Waiting to hear back as to when we will talk. I Sugegsted yesterday or today and have not heard back. I hope he hasn't cancelled on me after seeing this thread!


I compilied a list of my personal issues and the universal ones most people seem to mention.
I also have some question for him.

At the end of the cal I will suggest he reads this thread. If nothing else it will help United understand their best customers and ultimately help them build a better airline and business.

I'll report back once (IF! the cal happens!

I wonder if he will get the irony of his not following up on a commitment to a customer? :)

I wonder if he will get the irony of his not following up on a commitment to a customer? :)

That would be ironic indeed, but it might be best to wait to hear from TIMOS before reaching any conclusions.

If you have not yet "talked to the Hand", I would like to know what they are going to do about surly, ill-informed customer service people on the elite line. As a 1K who used to speak to very pleasant, knowledgable people who could help me quickly and truly wanted to give me a good experience, I've been shocked by the quality of people now staffing the lines. Just this morning I called and was greeted by a grumpy person who didn't know basic program rules and wouldn't even check on what I asked her to check. I hung up, called back, and spoke to a much more pleasant, helpful person who fixed the situation for me. WTH! How long can he imagine that we 100K flyers are going to put up with this?

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 5_1_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9B206 Safari/7534.48.3)

If you have not yet "talked to the Hand", I would like to know what they are going to do about surly, ill-informed customer service people on the elite line. As a 1K who used to speak to very pleasant, knowledgable people who could help me quickly and truly wanted to give me a good experience, I've been shocked by the quality of people now staffing the lines. Just this morning I called and was greeted by a grumpy person who didn't know basic program rules and wouldn't even check on what I asked her to check. I hung up, called back, and spoke to a much more pleasant, helpful person who fixed the situation for me. WTH! How long can he imagine that we 100K flyers are going to put up with this?

I know what you mean. I called this morning to inquire about yet another schedule change and after the agent rebooked me I said "Have a nice day" and her response was "Okay."

Sure beats the treatment at the SFO UC where the response was "I shall"

Do they go out of their way NOT to be nice? Sheesh

I know what you mean. I called this morning to inquire about yet another schedule change and after the agent rebooked me I said "Have a nice day" and her response was "Okay."

Sheesh.

A buddy of mine just flew AA on the match and struck up a conversation with the FA about the manifest and whether it shows his EXP status. She told him there's a notation about his special EXP status which indicates he's from UA, and they've been told to be particularly accommodating to them since they want to win their future business away from UA.

Makes me think of the difficulty CO IT had with getting a fourth tier in their system, could you imagine them having commented special tier display on a manifest, let alone execute to the point where front-liners knew what that meant like AA is doing? For how many years did CO have CO-STAR where practically nobody knew what it meant?

Anyhow, after his overall experience throughout the trip, I think he's hooked, and may become another UA casualty.

Sheesh.

A buddy of mine just flew AA on the match and struck up a conversation with the FA about the manifest and whether it shows his EXP status. She told him there's a notation about his special EXP status which indicates he's from UA, and they've been told to be particularly accommodating to them since they want to win their future business away from UA.

Makes me think of the difficulty CO IT had with getting a fourth tier in their system, could you imagine them having commented special tier display on a manifest, let alone execute to the point where front-liners knew what that meant like AA is doing? For how many years did CO have CO-STAR where practically nobody knew what it meant?

Anyhow, after his overall experience throughout the trip, I think he's hooked, and may become another UA casualty.

A casualty from UA's point of view (assuming UA cares), an escapee or survivor from the point of view of your friend...not that I've totally escaped. :o

Sheesh.

A buddy of mine just flew AA on the match and struck up a conversation with the FA about the manifest and whether it shows his EXP status. She told him there's a notation about his special EXP status which indicates he's from UA, and they've been told to be particularly accommodating to them since they want to win their future business away from UA.

:eek::eek::eek: WOW! If I were an exec at United I'd be wetting my pants in fear over what AA is doing. However, they probably just say, no worries, there are 10 kettles to replace that guy and we can upsell the kettles.

:eek::eek::eek: WOW! If I were an exec at United I'd be wetting my pants in fear over what AA is doing. However, they probably just say, no worries, there are 10 kettles to replace that guy and we can upsell the kettles.

No, it seems to me they are clearly worried (see my other post about 2 exceptional 1K Voice responses in a row). Worried, yes, but probably overrun with complaints that have to be dealt with. I am cautiously optimistic however, given that competition from AA and others is perhaps having an effort.

:eek::eek::eek: WOW! If I were an exec at United I'd be wetting my pants in fear over what AA is doing. However, they probably just say, no worries, there are 10 kettles to replace that guy and we can upsell the kettles.

And the kettles won't complain or expect bennies.