DiningBuzz! - Wine- looking for everyday drinkers at a lower price...

Hi All,

So I fell into that trap of slowly upping my price point on wine, and generally the wines that I have been drinking recently are very enjoyable, however I am trying to scale it back in terms of the everyday bottle cost.

I typically prefer Cabs from Napa, and have recently enjoyed Spellwine for under $20 (through Lot18) and Mount Veedner Cab at around $25...these have crept into the everyday bottle range, and $60-$100 for special wines. I am looking for something around $10-15 a bottle on the Cab side that is great value - any ideas here?

I also enjoy Chardonnay, and have always found those to be more reasonable, and able to find a decent enough one for $10 or less, Cupcake Chard is an example of a great cheaper option (I just need the Cab version of it, which isn't the Cupcake Cab unfortunately).

Any little gems out there that I should keep an eye out for?

Cheers,

Matt

I am looking for something around $10-15 a bottle on the Cab side that is great value - any ideas here?

See if these two existing threads help:

Your favorite white wine under $12/bottle (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/diningbuzz/1134144-your-favorite-white-wine-under-12-bottle.html)

Your favorite red wine under $12/bottle (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/diningbuzz/623785-your-favorite-red-wine-under-12-bottle.html)

There is a world-wide glut of wine so quality has really improved for the no-name label wines. Try Trader Joe, the majority of their wines are well chosen and excellent value at any price point. Otherwise it gets tricky. Lately I buy wine mostly at auction, and can get $50 Cabs for $10/bottle that way but supply is unpredictable and frequently varying.

i am able to get very good cabs for about 20. good pinots for around 16-15, and really good chard for about 15. i have a resource for "distressed" wines, where red and white burgs are 17 and 12, or thereabouts.

prices really drop for complete closeouts, maybe under 10 for chards, and under 15 for cabs. to get those deals, one must "know someone"(usually buy direct from the importer in at least 3-5 case lots), and go pick up the wine.

Why don't you have someone pour you samples from a range of wines from Trader Joes, including <$5 bottles. If you can't tell the difference, stop buying / perceiving wine based on the price, and enjoy the cheap stuff...

i can usually tell the difference. i think most of the trader joe stuff is seriously defective cr**. i do, drink a lot of rose in summer. i actually prefer a number of the $7 or so to the mid priced, and i dislike the +20 rose.

i also think most of the cameron hughes cheap wine is garbage. every now and then he acquires something decent as distressed merchandise, but most of his fill ins are really really bad.

for a decent $10 chard, taste through the Argentinian. some of those are really good. also look for an aussie Riesling.

See if these two existing threads help:

Your favorite white wine under $12/bottle (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/diningbuzz/1134144-your-favorite-white-wine-under-12-bottle.html)

Your favorite red wine under $12/bottle (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/diningbuzz/623785-your-favorite-red-wine-under-12-bottle.html)

Thanks for the links - will certainly look through them and check them out.

There is a world-wide glut of wine so quality has really improved for the no-name label wines. Try Trader Joe, the majority of their wines are well chosen and excellent value at any price point. Otherwise it gets tricky. Lately I buy wine mostly at auction, and can get $50 Cabs for $10/bottle that way but supply is unpredictable and frequently varying.

That sounds like a good option - my only problem in the past (not with auctions) but with discounted wines in a place in NYC is that what they are selling off seems 9times out of 10 to be corked...

That said I do enjoy buying them cheaply online through the various discount sites.

Why don't you have someone pour you samples from a range of wines from Trader Joes, including <$5 bottles. If you can't tell the difference, stop buying / perceiving wine based on the price, and enjoy the cheap stuff...

I typically can tell the difference though, however there are the odd few gems, that often come from less well known regions that are excellent at lower price points, I'm just looking for other peoples experiences with these.

i can usually tell the difference. i think most of the trader joe stuff is seriously defective cr**. i do, drink a lot of rose in summer. i actually prefer a number of the $7 or so to the mid priced, and i dislike the +20 rose.

i also think most of the cameron hughes cheap wine is garbage. every now and then he acquires something decent as distressed merchandise, but most of his fill ins are really really bad.

for a decent $10 chard, taste through the Argentinian. some of those are really good. also look for an aussie Riesling.

I agree about the TJ stuff - I had heard that some of their Reserve (Black Label) has been exceptional in the past when they have bought up big label vineyards stock, but I just went there and saw a cab, was about to buy a case and the assistant was: 'Yeah this is excellent, at least equal in quality to the $11 Bogle...' so I picked up one in the hope it was even better, but should have listened to him and my gut.

I'll check out Argentina, I do find a lot of good Chards coming out of other areas than Napa and holding up well, but haven't got many from Argentina as yet.

Of course I now have to train my palate to appreciate unoaked more too, so there is a lot to play with with these.

i am able to get very good cabs for about 20. good pinots for around 16-15, and really good chard for about 15. i have a resource for "distressed" wines, where red and white burgs are 17 and 12, or thereabouts.

prices really drop for complete closeouts, maybe under 10 for chards, and under 15 for cabs. to get those deals, one must "know someone"(usually buy direct from the importer in at least 3-5 case lots), and go pick up the wine.

Could you share the names of a couple of the Cabs with me?

At that price point I have recently enjoyed Spellwine Cabernet the most, and at slightly higher 20-25 Mount Veeder Cabernet (I have a bottle of their Reserve 06 waiting for an excuse to get stuck into too).

i can usually tell the difference. i think most of the trader joe stuff is seriously defective cr**.

THIS. And if anyone recommends you buy the Two-Buck-(Up)Chuck, they are crazy. Absolutely swill. Just because TJs randomly won a wine contest doesn't mean all of it is good wine. Almost every bottle we have had was spew.

Wine is a personal thing, what some people love, others hate. So you have to go through and find ones you like at a price you are willing to pay.

There are various lists out there of best wines under some amount of money, here's one for Cabs under ten bucks

http://wine.about.com/od/winerecommendations/tp/Cabsunder10.htm

and another for under $15

http://www.foodandwine.com/articles/best-american-wines-fifteen-dollars-and-under-cabernet-sauvignon

The only way you are going to find something you like is to try a bunch of stuff, much of which you probably won't like. Like any wine in any price range, there is such a huge range that there is nothing everybody will like.

There is a world-wide glut of wine so quality has really improved for the no-name label wines. Try Trader Joe, the majority of their wines are well chosen and excellent value at any price point. Otherwise it gets tricky. Lately I buy wine mostly at auction, and can get $50 Cabs for $10/bottle that way but supply is unpredictable and frequently varying.

^

This is definitely the case in the wine market presently. In fact much of the quite excellent $10-15/bottle stuff being sold under the Trader Joes, Cameron Hughes, or Kirkland labels, was originally intended to be sold by the wineries that produced them for prices in the $30-60/bottle range, but financial distress and the need for cash flows has forced the producing wineries to sell them to the folks running those labels at pennies on the dollar in bulk. Nowadays, it's very easy to find a high quality Napa Cabernet or Meritage - often from a prime appellation like Rutherford, Oakville, Yountville or Stags Leap, under those labels listed above for $12-14 or so. Five years ago, that was simply not possible, as the wines from those venues were invariably selling for north of $30 a bottle - often WELL north.

I typically can tell the difference though, however there are the odd few gems, that often come from less well known regions that are excellent at lower price points, I'm just looking for other peoples experiences with these.

The fact is, nowadays you often CAN'T tell the difference, because much of the $12 bottle from Trader Joes or Kirkland was made to be a $60 Napa Cab. But, financial distress has resulted in the wine being sold off to those store brand labels.

THIS. And if anyone recommends you buy the Two-Buck-(Up)Chuck, they are crazy. Absolutely swill. Just because TJs randomly won a wine contest doesn't mean all of it is good wine. Almost every bottle we have had was spew.

Two Buck Chuck is one thing, but the $10-15 Trader Joes stuff is another matter entirely - some of those wines equal in quality to stuff selling under name brands for 3-4x that price. I personally know of several of the sources for some of their stuff, including an estate reserve Pinot from Carneros Creek Winery that used to sell under that winery's label for $50 a bottle, and some Mazocco Meritage that was originally a $40 Alexander Valley wine.

One of the best wine bargains I ever had was a 2007 Rutherford Meritage under Trader Joes label that they sold last year for $10 a bottle, and it was EASILY worth $50. I threw it into several blind tastings as a ringer and it always finished near the top amongst $30-$80 wines. After I tried it, I bought a case of it, and I would have bought much more if it had been structured for cellar ageing, but it was a near term drinker.

BTW, the wine glut also has salutory affect on Two Buck Chuck, as the quality of the grape juice they get presently is more akin to what sells elsewhere for $6-9 a bottle. It didn't used to be - it used to be that it took great blending skills to make Two Buck Chuck even drinkable. That is much easier for them to accomplish now, with the caliber of bulk wine available to them on the open market.

Like I said, I heard that TJs used to get stuff like this and was excited about it, but right now, their top of the line Reserve Cab is a comparable to a Bogle. It really isn't that good in reality.

In theory, your posts make a lot of sense and get me all excited about them, but buying the wine...nope... not anymore.

I really wish it was otherwise.

Always drink whatever you like and don't worry about the people pontificating. You should drink what you enjoy like some people prefer crisp and others like buttery.

We had the same problem. When we got to about $50/night we decided that maybe it was time to scale back. Now we try to look for sales and buy in bulk.

Perhaps you have a place nearby that stocks value imports. I've got a place in my 'hood that has probably 1/3 or more of its inventory at $10 or under - mostly French and Spanish, with a bit of Italian, Portugal and Chile, Argentina. Just got a few bottles of a very good Bourgogne Blanc for $13/btl. I'm sure (to the OP) in Brooklyn, you can add a couple of bucks per bottle, but maybe there's a small merchant like this. Most of what I buy at this place is $10 and under ($6.99 is the floor there) and at worst, I get a "meh, but not offensive." At best, I buy a $7 bottle and go back right away to buy a case.

I don't buy too many domestic bargains, because well, they tend to be worth what you pay for them, or less.

We buy a lot of J Lohr Seven Oaks Cab for $11-12 at Total Wine. My wife and edler son love it more than I do.
http://jlohr.com/wines/estates/Seven-Oaks-Cabernet_2010

I like the Kirkland Alexander Valley Cab from Costco for $9. Trader Joe's can be hit or miss. A lot of the stuff I like are one-time special purchases that are gone by the time I get back to the store.

I try to keep my everyday wine price point under $9. I can usually find enough stuff out there to keep me happy. Let the glut continue!

Like I said, I heard that TJs used to get stuff like this and was excited about it, but right now, their top of the line Reserve Cab is a comparable to a Bogle. It really isn't that good in reality.

In theory, your posts make a lot of sense and get me all excited about them, but buying the wine...nope... not anymore.

I really wish it was otherwise.

So true brooklynmatt. Personally, I'm so sick of hearing people who know next to nothing (but think they know much) wax on about "how good" TJ wine is. For God's sake, 90% of it is sh**te. On occasion I have had a bottle that was ok.

But as said before, if you like it, go for it.

Two from my adopted country, just for you:

Marques de Caceres 2007 Rioja (14.99)
Yllera 2005 Rioja (15.99)

Like I said, I heard that TJs used to get stuff like this and was excited about it, but right now, their top of the line Reserve Cab is a comparable to a Bogle. It really isn't that good in reality.


a friend of mine who chases cheap oakie chards likes j lohr, bogle and wente. i have had some j lohr and thought it a quite decent $10 chard.

Perhaps you have a place nearby that stocks value imports. I've got a place in my 'hood that has probably 1/3 or more of its inventory at $10 or under - mostly French and Spanish, with a bit of Italian, Portugal and Chile, Argentina. Just got a few bottles of a very good Bourgogne Blanc for $13/btl. I'm sure (to the OP) in Brooklyn, you can add a couple of bucks per bottle, but maybe there's a small merchant like this. Most of what I buy at this place is $10 and under ($6.99 is the floor there) and at worst, I get a "meh, but not offensive." At best, I buy a $7 bottle and go back right away to buy a case.

I don't buy too many domestic bargains, because well, they tend to be worth what you pay for them, or less.

Thanks for this, I have thought for some time that I should be branching out more into imports.

What would you recommend for bold (often Cabernet) type reds from overseas-to date I have enjoyed Tempranillo, Rioja, not done so well with France yet as I tried several cheaper Bordeaux but they didn't hit the right notes...

And I had an excellent Sangiovese the other day when the restaurant I was eating at didn't have a Montepulciano.

Any other ones that I should look at?

a friend of mine who chases cheap oakie chards likes j lohr, bogle and wente. i have had some j lohr and thought it a quite decent $10 chard.

Yeah - I am confident that Chards can be found at 10 the Cupcake was a great one, and I have enjoyed Hobnob at AA lounge in Ohare too...

- will check out the J Lohr one... it is the Cabs that are harder to find at lower prices.

Thanks for the comments guys, especially with names that you have tried and enjoyed, will certainly be looking them up.

The news covering the worlds most expensive wine a bottle for $168,000 (of which only 12 were made).

One of the stories about it

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2012/06/most-expensive-wine/

talks about how price is connected to taste for some people

Research shows that people’s enjoyment of wine is influenced by how much it costs. According to Caltech neuro-economist Antonio Rangel, who has studied this, “When people drank the same wine, but they believed it was a more expensive wine, areas of the brain that are associated with encoding pleasure were more active.”

Rangel and colleagues scanned people in a functional MRI machine while they tasted Cabernet Sauvignons that were marked higher or lower than their actual retail price. Tasters reported liking the exact same wine better when they thought it cost more than they did when it had been marked down, and their brains followed suit: The orbitofrontal cortex, a part of their brains associated with experiencing pleasure, was more active when they thought the wine was costlier.

dot dot dot

Interestingly, when Rangel’s team conducted blind tastings (without providing prices) with people who weren’t connoisseurs, they reported liking the cheapest wines the most. When the researchers did this with people from the Stanford wine club, they found the same thing. “I suspect though that if you go to sommeliers – people with very educated palates – the illusion breaks down,” Rangel said

Go to Costco.. get some Chateau st Michelle, indian wells cab.. i think they're 14 bucks.. pretty good for the money.

Go to Costco.. get some Chateau st Michelle, indian wells cab.. i think they're 14 bucks.. pretty good for the money.

IMHO, Columbia Crest H3 (Horse Heaven Hills) Cabernet is better, and slightly cheaper (usually under $12) from the same area.

Like I said, I heard that TJs used to get stuff like this and was excited about it, but right now, their top of the line Reserve Cab is a comparable to a Bogle. It really isn't that good in reality.

In theory, your posts make a lot of sense and get me all excited about them, but buying the wine...nope... not anymore.

I really wish it was otherwise.

Currently, my favorite amongst the Trader Joes $10 stuff is their 2009 Reserve G-S-M blend, from Paso Robles. Not a huge wine, but great fruit and lots of finesse and complexity. A very nice near-term drinker at the $9.99 price point, and a cut above their current Cabernets.

The news covering the worlds most expensive wine a bottle for $168,000 (of which only 12 were made).

One of the stories about it

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2012/06/most-expensive-wine/

talks about how price is connected to taste for some people

Research shows that people’s enjoyment of wine is influenced by how much it costs. According to Caltech neuro-economist Antonio Rangel, who has studied this, “When people drank the same wine, but they believed it was a more expensive wine, areas of the brain that are associated with encoding pleasure were more active.”

Rangel and colleagues scanned people in a functional MRI machine while they tasted Cabernet Sauvignons that were marked higher or lower than their actual retail price. Tasters reported liking the exact same wine better when they thought it cost more than they did when it had been marked down, and their brains followed suit: The orbitofrontal cortex, a part of their brains associated with experiencing pleasure, was more active when they thought the wine was costlier.

dot dot dot

Interestingly, when Rangel’s team conducted blind tastings (without providing prices) with people who weren’t connoisseurs, they reported liking the cheapest wines the most. When the researchers did this with people from the Stanford wine club, they found the same thing. “I suspect though that if you go to sommeliers – people with very educated palates – the illusion breaks down,” Rangel said

are you familiar with the slawecki study. slawecki, an mit physical scientist has noted that over 50% of the people attending various wine tasting dinners cannot detect severely corked (defective)wine. the wines are usually poured to a row or table of the "connoisseurs" and not a one of them complains.

of late, i have had great success purchasing non-selling wines from retailers. they claim the stuff does not sell because people do not like the labels?????? talk about the ultimate label drinkers.

I prefer sauvignon blanc to chard, and have half a dozen Marlborough NZ labels I rotate through at around $8-12. Trader Joe always has at least one of them $1-2 cheaper than the so-called discount wine stores around here.

Shopping today I picked up a box of Black Box Cab 22.99 for 4 bottles, said to keep for 4 weeks... It's not that bad (I prefer a little more body but it's very drinkable). I'd rate it higher than any modern TJ offering and similar to a 14-16 bottle.

There was another brand in wooden boxes that had wine labels on them that looked higher end too...

Could be the answer...