Checkpoints and Borders Policy Debate - Terminal dump at JFK 7

It took two hours but they realized a metal detector wasn't working.

http://news.yahoo.com/hundreds-evacuated-terminal-airport-nyc-171415179.html

Flights must have taken off and yet did not explode.

So the WTMD alarms SO SELDOM that two hours can pass without an alarm and the minder doesn't think that's odd? How numb can they be?

Or else the job itself is so numbing that they swap minders out every 5 minutes, so each one's visibility of the problem is only five minutes wide?

Sheesh. Every SINGLE slot machine in a casino (or the gambling state's airports) is network monitored to make sure they don't "malfunction" and pay off too often, aren't they? I suppose the country's security is less important than the profitability of the smallest casino.

Shouldn't the WTMD be emitting a random "screen this victim" alarm every so often? Did they fail to notice THIS for two hours as well?

Another porous layer. They should just shut up about the fallibility of the machines. No bad guy was going to notice anyway. No need for the terminal dump to call attention to their idiocy.

So the WTMD alarms SO SELDOM that two hours can pass without an alarm and the minder doesn't think that's odd? How numb can they be?


It's the TSA.

So the WTMD alarms SO SELDOM that two hours can pass without an alarm and the minder doesn't think that's odd? How numb can they be?

It's hard for it to alarm when it's not plugged in.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/unplugged_tsa_airhead_triggers_jfk_kKxMANCPErCWn6K LfDbbVI?utm_medium=rss%26utm_content=Local

Good job TSA! :rolleyes:

They named the perp? Cool. Alija Abdul Majed, for the record.

And they "had no choice" but to run a terminal dump? Nah, they could have easily said - no bad guy got through. Let's just add one item to the checkpoint checklist and carry on.

But no........

Got to love the comments to the NY Post article. How long have we got to put up with these TSA clowns before somebody takes a serious look at them and starts correcting these problems? They are a disgrace to this once proud country.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/unplugged_tsa_airhead_triggers_jfk_kKxMANCPErCWn6K LfDbbVI?utm_medium=rss%26utm_content=Local

Good job TSA! :rolleyes:

Indeed.

These fools are keeping us safe?!?
The TSA’s bungling reached a new low yesterday when a JFK Airport terminal had to be evacuated and hundreds of passengers marched back through security screening all because one dimwitted agent failed to realize his metal detector had been unplugged, sources told The Post.
The stunning error led to hours of delays, two planes called back from the runway and infinite frustration for furious passengers.
“The truth is, this is the failure of the most basic level of diligence,” a law-enforcement source said.
“How can you expect the public to feel confident of the mission of the TSA if they don’t even know if the lights are turned on?”

The TSA would not confirm or deny that its detector had been unplugged, releasing a statement saying only that a metal detector suffered a “malfunction.”Sorry, but I just have to chuckle* with this piece of prose :rolleyes:


*actually cry because this is simply just so sad.....

Sorry, but I just have to chuckle* with this piece of prose :rolleyes:


*actually cry because this is simply just so sad.....

Others, like Jason Bailey, who was headed to San Diego, didn’t mind the delay.

“It’s a big inconvenience, but it’s better safe than sorry,” he said.

Ah yes. And in the case of Mr. Bailey and others who think like him, the porch light is on but nobody's home. :p

It took two hours but they realized a metal detector wasn't working.

http://news.yahoo.com/hundreds-evacuated-terminal-airport-nyc-171415179.html

Flights must have taken off and yet did not explode.

I'm almost positive that even before I do a walk-around on an aircraft I verify voltage per the checklist. In fact even during the flight I look at what the voltage is.

Perhaps the TSA "trainers" could invent a new tool called checklists? Perhaps one prior to opening checkpoint and another for hand-off?

Although I certainly do appreciate the TSA's efforts and giving us material. :rolleyes:

How numb can they be?

They work for the TSA. 'Nuff said.

They named the perp? Cool. Alija Abdul Majed, for the record.

And they "had no choice" but to run a terminal dump? Nah, they could have easily said - no bad guy got through. Let's just add one item to the checkpoint checklist and carry on.

But no........

No, there is no terrorist at airport. They never was. TSA should have correctly to plugged it in and not unplugged the cord. TSA will have more appropriate behavior and they have try to fixed the metal detector. Don't let anymore evacuated the terminal. They have followed the specific rules and don't ever do it again.

did the other layers of security ensure that there was no risk to the traveling public?

did the other layers of security ensure that there was no risk to the traveling public?The remaining layers of security retained their imposing and impregnable illusion of infallibility, as always.

I meant, of course, the illusion was imposing and impregnable. To characterize the existing theater as infallible would be an insult to the word.

That said, the risk was slightly elevated during the screening gap. From 1 in 42,000,000,000 to 1 in 45,000,000,000 I estimate. Less than my choking to death on tropical drink umbrella, I figure.

If one of the pax going through the powerless WTMD noticed the lights weren't on and said something, would they get charged with "interfering in the screening process"?

I am a bad guy that has managed to get my bad stuff past the checkpoint.

TSA announces a rescreening of everyone in the terminal.

Here is my choice as a bad guy: Do I go back through with my bad stuff to get screened again or do I hide it in the terminal so I can get it when I return not having to worry about getting caught this time?

Once the horse is out, it is too late to close the door.

... or do I hide it in the terminal so I can get it when I return ...That would be the ticket. Except law enforcement, not the TSA (I assume) is in charge of inspecting the public areas of the terminal, and you know they're going to apply resources that adequately match the level of threat that exists.

Which means they'll look in a couple of trash cans, ignore the airline lounges and vendor areas, and the sweep will take ten minutes, tops.

We finally found an advantage of the NoS over the WTMD. It's hard for the TSA to miss that the NoS isn't plugged in. Of course with the TSA, that still might happen. :)

TSA announces a rescreening of everyone in the terminal.

Here is my choice as a bad guy: Do I go back through with my bad stuff to get screened again or do I hide it in the terminal so I can get it when I return not having to worry about getting caught this time?

Neither!

You simply hand the bad stuff back to the TSA employee that you bribed to bring that bad stuff around the checkpoint for you.

I am a bad guy that has managed to get my bad stuff past the checkpoint.

TSA announces a rescreening of everyone in the terminal.

Here is my choice as a bad guy: Do I go back through with my bad stuff to get screened again or do I hide it in the terminal so I can get it when I return not having to worry about getting caught this time?

Once the horse is out, it is too late to close the door.

I thought of this as soon as terminal dumps started after 9/11. Let's say I'm a Bad Guy(TM), and I manage to get an Evil Item(TM) past the TSA, since I realized that a WTMD or NoS was unplugged. Sure enough, I hear an announcement that the terminal is being evacuated because of the unplugged WTMD or NoS that let me through. I can name _countless_ places to hide my Evil Item(TM), like behind the plumbing access hatch in a toilet stall.

This thread knocked loose a thought I had on a recent 0914-1032 flight from CLT to TLH. If the TSA had ordered a terminal dump while I was waiting at CLT, Greyhound could have had me home at 2225--potentially earlier than waiting until late that night or the next day for a flight.

If the TSA orders a terminal dump and you want to not fly and just find another way to your destination, how much trouble would it be to get your checked bag back?

We finally found an advantage of the NoS over the WTMD. It's hard for the TSA to miss that the NoS isn't plugged in. Of course with the TSA, that still might happen. :)

Three-striper: "You've really gone two hours without any type of alarm?"
One-striper: "Yep. Every person through has had this black screen."
Three-striper: "Black screen? What the--TERMINAL DUMP!"

Three-striper: "You've really gone two hours without any type of alarm?"
One-striper: "Yep. Every person through has had this black screen."
Three-striper: "Black screen? What the--TERMINAL DUMP!"

One-striper: "But no yellow squares popped up showing me where to search."

I find it a little disconcerting that the same people who are being trained to risk assess passengers in the security line are so adept at their job that they fail to notice a non-functioning metal detector.

I think it would be number one or two on the checklist of operating a metal detector.

1) Is your apparatus on and functioning?

2) If yes, proceed with passenger checks. If no, turn on apparatus.

Seems likely that you should know the status of the apparatus you are controlling. I don't sit at home looking at a black screen on my TV wondering why there is nothing on today.

Something just doesn't seem right here. There's power lights, intensity meters, randomizer lights, etc. The times I've looked back at the rear of the WTMD, there's always someting going on with the lights. A static display alone would have been an indication of some form of abnormality.

Something just doesn't seem right here. There's power lights, intensity meters, randomizer lights, etc. The times I've looked back at the rear of the WTMD, there's always someting going on with the lights. A static display alone would have been an indication of some form of abnormality.

That leaves two options:

1. The screener is as dumb as we've always suspected.
2. This was done intentionally for some as yet unknown reason.

Now, Hanlon's razor does tell us "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." I'm just wondering if there won't be an abundance of caution coming out somewhere.

Now, Hanlon's razor does tell us "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." I'm just wondering if there won't be an abundance of caution coming out somewhere.

"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity, but don't rule out malice."

I have no doubt that the TSA will find some way to make travelers suffer the consequences of this particular bit of stupidium leakage.

"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity, but don't rule out malice."

I have no doubt that the TSA will find some way to make travelers suffer the consequences of this particular bit of stupidium leakage.

I wonder if the response to this one will be random, unprovoked terminal dumps. Or, perhaps random, unprovoked partial dumps, with one entire gate area roped off and subjected to pat-downs and bag checks, sort of like the current gate checks but on steroids. And maybe throw some roving patrols in there, picking people all over the sterile area at random for resolution pat-downs and bag checks. It's a layer, you understand, instituted out of an abundance of caution.

I wonder if the response to this one will be random, unprovoked terminal dumps.

I hope so.

It'd certainly accelerate the realization by the general public that the TSA isn't about security, but about the illusion of security (with the added "benefit" of TSA employees granted the opportunities to steal from passengers and/or molest them in the course of that "work.")

The faster that illusion is broken, the better.

I wonder if the response to this one will be random, unprovoked terminal dumps. Or, perhaps random, unprovoked partial dumps, with one entire gate area roped off and subjected to pat-downs and bag checks, sort of like the current gate checks but on steroids. And maybe throw some roving patrols in there, picking people all over the sterile area at random for resolution pat-downs and bag checks. It's a layer, you understand, instituted out of an abundance of caution.

And I'd make sure all the travelers in line with me knew that the reason this new policy was implemented was because some dolt at the TSA left a metal detector unplugged, and it took the screeners two hours to notice.

Seriously though, it'd never happen. Airlines wouldn't allow something that disruptive to their operations. If you dump an entire terminal at a major airport, it could take hours to clear everyone back through. Best-case scenario, airlines are rebooking and comping left and right. Worst case scenario, a terminal dump at ATL--where all concourses are connected in the main terminal--shuts DL down for a day.

And I'd make sure all the travelers in line with me knew that the reason this new policy was implemented was because some dolt at the TSA left a metal detector unplugged, and it took the screeners two hours to notice...

If privatized screeners had caused this, e.g. Team SFO, would the company have been fined?

If privatized screeners had caused this, e.g. Team SFO, would the company have been fined?

Doubtful. More likely is that the TSA would have flaunted around the incompetence of SFO's screeners as a reason to replace them with TSA employees, and as a reason that no further airports should be allowed to privatize.

Sad when you think about it. If a private screening company had done it, the TSA would've made a huge deal of the situation. Because TSA screeners did it, it's an equipment malfunction.

Doubtful. More likely is that the TSA would have flaunted around the incompetence of SFO's screeners as a reason to replace them with TSA employees, and as a reason that no further airports should be allowed to privatize.

Sad when you think about it. If a private screening company had done it, the TSA would've made a huge deal of the situation. Because TSA screeners did it, it's an equipment malfunction.

If i were a private-screener supervisor and found out that a WTMD had been unplugged for two hours, I would quietly plug it in, keep my mouth shut, and not say a word to any TSA personnel "supervising" us at the airport.

On the 0.00000000001% chance that a metal-object incident occurs as a result of the unplugged WTMD, it would be extremely easy to explain away: someone must have flown in the item from another airport.

Hopefully, no TSA top brass are reading this, but if you found out a WTMD has been unplugged and someone might have gotten an Evil Item through, the only real way to clear it is to dump every airport in the USA, ground all passenger flights, search every airport "sterile" area in the country, and re-clear every single passenger. Because that Evil Item that made it into JFK could have been flown anywhere in the country.

On the 0.00000000001% chance that a metal-object incident occurs as a result of the unplugged WTMD, it would be extremely easy to explain away: someone must have flown in the item from another airport.

Unless the incriminating item is found on a passenger whose travel originated at your airport...

Unless the incriminating item is found on a passenger whose travel originated at your airport...

Still plenty of plausible deniability.

A co-conspirator could have boarded an airplane at another airport with the item and passed it to the "guilty" passenger inside the sterile area.

Or, the item could've been brought into the checkpoint by the numerous folks who have access to the sterile area but don't have to pass through checkpoints, and then passed to the "guilty" passenger.

Unless the incriminating item is found on a passenger whose travel originated at your airport...

Yeah, because nobody would ever sneak in the item at another airport and hand it off to someone else. And an underpaid vendor would never sneak in an item in the middle of a skid full of potato chips. :D

Yeah, because nobody would ever sneak in the item at another airport and hand it off to someone else. And an underpaid vendor would never sneak in an item in the middle of a skid full of potato chips. :D

And actual "Federalized/Professionalized" TSA employees would never accept bribes to smuggle prohibited items/drugs/stuff through their 'security' checkpoints. (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2012/04/tsa-drug-smuggling-case-is-significant-security-breakdown-feds-say.html)