Checkpoints and Borders Policy Debate - A new low: liquids confiscated at the gate in PTY

So I went through my usual practice of going through security and then buying a bottle of water air-side for my long-ish flight from PTY to EWR.

Agents went through all bags at the gate and confiscated the water. Do their x-rays at the security checkpoint not detect liquids? Is this a new rule? Only for flights to the U.S.? Of course the security agent had the usual blank, indifferent look when I tried to ask questions. There were certainly no signs or announcements about this.

All us bound intl flights are subjected to US DHS level security check addtional to local check at the gate. The US bound gate check is in full compliance with DHS regulations where the local check is different.

This additional gate security check is not just a PTY issue, it is also for SJO next door as well as most Asia to US flights.

This incident is why I travel with my own bottle for water. Restaurants will fill it for you and if there is an issue just dump the water and board the plane. Once on board ask the FA for some water.

I've seen this happen at a TSA gate check in the US, so this isn't the first time.

Ok-I understand it's different countries and different rules but I'm totally confused on this one....

So I went through my usual practice of going through security and then buying a bottle of water air-side for my long-ish flight from PTY to EWR.

Why was a bottle of water purchased airside confiscated/taken away/surrendered?

Why was a bottle of water purchased airside confiscated/taken away/surrendered?

Stupidity and/or revenue driver.

Ok-I understand it's different countries and different rules but I'm totally confused on this one....



Why was a bottle of water purchased airside confiscated/taken away/surrendered?

Because there is no way of telling the difference between airside water and landside water at many airports outside the US where there is no H2Ophobia.

Ok-I understand it's different countries and different rules but I'm totally confused on this one....

So I went through my usual practice of going through security and then buying a bottle of water air-side for my long-ish flight from PTY to EWR.

Why was a bottle of water purchased airside confiscated/taken away/surrendered?Stupidity and/or revenue driver.^

Ok-I understand it's different countries and different rules but I'm totally confused on this one....

So I went through my usual practice of going through security and then buying a bottle of water air-side for my long-ish flight from PTY to EWR.

Why was a bottle of water purchased airside confiscated/taken away/surrendered?Because there is no way of telling the difference between airside water and landside water at many airports outside the US where there is no H2Ophobia.So what if I show my receipt which shows I bought it airside? It's not that difficult to figure out it, right? ;)

Because there is no way of telling the difference between airside water and landside water at many airports outside the US where there is no H2Ophobia.

Why does this even matter?

^

So what if I show the geniuses my receipt that shows I bought it airside )or will they all have a collective stroke trying to figure it out?) ;)

Now look who's being naive. Some of us are just more in tune with the terrorist threats that face this great nation of ours. You see, what's to stop a terrorist from scouting the airport to determine what type of water they sell and then buying a bottle of it on the outside? Then, the terrorist could fill the bottle with the mystery explosive while also buying a bottle at the airport for the receipt. Throw out the water and bring your magical mystery bottle onboard, showing the receipt as proof that you bought it at the airport.

It's only through the courage and intellect of our airport security that we are able to stop terrorists.

Leave me alone, it's Friday

Mike

It's only through the courage and intellect of our airport security that we are able to stop terrorists.

Your point was made swimmingly, but I wonder if you really mean it, or if you just posted this for the halibut...

^

So what if I show my receipt which shows I bought it airside? It's not that difficult to figure out it, right? ;)

Your point was made swimmingly, but I wonder if you really mean it, or if you just posted this for the halibut...

We've had a whale of a time with this game, but I'm worrying that FTers are sick of herring all these fish jokes.

Mike

It's the US bound flights only that I've seen this on in PTY and other places.

It's the US bound flights only that I've seen this on in PTY and other places.

It happened to us flying PVR-SFO a few years ago. Very annoying, especially when wanting a good supply of water to accompany medication. :td:

It happened to us flying PVR-SFO a few years ago. Very annoying, especially when wanting a good supply of water to accompany medication. :td:

They've done it the last few trips out of PVG. The search is superficial, though.

^

So what if I show my receipt which shows I bought it airside? It's not that difficult to figure out it, right? ;)

Your point was made swimmingly, but I wonder if you really mean it, or if you just posted this for the halibut...

We've had a whale of a time with this game, but I'm worrying that FTers are sick of herring all these fish jokes.

MikePlease stop-you're giving me a Haddock ;)

Please stop-you're giving me a Haddock ;)

You can get in trouble if you don't aqueous to the secondary search - you could be prevented from boarding. My biggest concern would be if the financial hardships caused to passengers from the loss of liquidity that these security policies cause.

Stupidity and/or revenue driver.

The stupidity is at US airports, not PTY. As other posters pointed out, many countries outside the US and EU (especially in Latin America and Asia) don't have restrictions against flying with liquids. The US imposes a restriction that for any flight landing in the US, all passengers have to be screened for liquids over 100ml.

Since there's no liquid screening at the checkpoint in these countries, security manually checks bags at the gate, so it doesn't matter where the liquid was purchased.

Panama (home of PTY) is one of the countries that isn't afraid to let people fly with liquids, so they don't screen for liquids at the security checkpoint.

As another poster pointed out, however, the gate screening is often very cursory. If they don't go through every nook and cranny of your bags, they aren't going to find every liquid. In BLR (Bangalore), I had a slightly more than half full 200 ml bottle of water. I started to surrender it and the security agent said "Oh just drink a little of it so it's less than half the bottle, then you can take it."

What the OP experienced in Panama is the airport demonstrating intelligence. Not stupidity.

What the OP experienced in Panama is the airport demonstrating intelligence. Not stupidity.

On the part of Panamanian security, yes - intelligence.

Even Kip Hawley has stated that continued liquid restrictions on the part of US "security" is stupidity.

I was surprised when they stole my two bottles of water at the gate returning to the US. I think it was from Israel before the 14 hr imprisonment. It's criminal to throw away water in such a dry country, so I drank it all. And you know what happened later, on the plane... :(

As another poster pointed out, however, the gate screening is often very cursory. If they don't go through every nook and cranny of your bags, they aren't going to find every liquid. In BLR (Bangalore), I had a slightly more than half full 200 ml bottle of water. I started to surrender it and the security agent said "Oh just drink a little of it so it's less than half the bottle, then you can take it."

What the OP experienced in Panama is the airport demonstrating intelligence. Not stupidity.

PVG does have liquid screening at the checkpoint and yet they have it at the gate also. Nobody's ever looked at my jacket pockets, nor in my laptop bag.

IIRC, PTY has always done things like that. Although I don't recall ever getting my bag hand inspected at the gate when flying to IAH, I did both times I flew to ATL. They really have some random rules and it ultimately depends on who is doing the checks. But I do remember seeing things that shouldn't have been confiscated confiscated.

I remember one time I was flying with a group from my school to AMS (it was one of those flights to ATL), and three of us went through the checkpoint almost together. I was wearing hiking boots with quite a bit of Thinsulate (this was during the winter, so we were going from the tropical sun to the cold, dark winter of Europe) and didn't have to take them off, a friend was wearing knee boots under her jeans and she was fine too, but the one who wore boots over her jeans had to take them off. Then some friends went through and the same thing happened, those who were visibly wearing boots had to take them off, those who didn't didn't, and those who were wearing shoes or sneakers also had no problem.

I remember someone from my group got something confiscated due to a rather stupid rule, but I can't remember what it was.

Ultimately, they're rentacops on a power trip, and can't do much. I don't know now, but at some point one of the security companies in PTY was Eulen. Also known locally for being a contractor for the cable company who also had a private security division, and in Mexico their main business is the janitorial industry, they did get their contracts at MEX suspended/cancelled because someone discovered that they didn't even have a private security license, just a janitorial services one. Having dealt with guards from both their Panamanian and Mexican division it was clear the level of training they had, and how it was 20% their job 80% power trip.

And do keep in mind that connections in Panama are airside (at least they were last time I was there, my mom mentioned some changes but I didn't really understand, and she was staying in PTY for a few days anyway), so you can easily get on a SJO-PTY flight with not as much security and then board a flight to the US.

I suppose that one could think of this experience at the gate in PTY as analogous to other airports that do full screening, either primary or secondary, at the gate (e.g., among my recent experiences, IST (until they changed it not long ago), CMB, AUH, KWI for all flights; DXB, DOH for flights to the U.S.), except in PTY it was manual instead of the full x-ray and magnetometer treatment.

There are two differences, however: the one in PTY was not very comprehensive (they only went through the luggage cursorily, and I probably could have had a bottle of water in my jacket pocket; others have reported that they don't even open all pieces of luggage), and in those other locations, there are sometimes liquids for sale even after the gate screening (e.g., there were vending machines in the gate area in IST).

I think they just "complement" the x-ray checking, but again, I've only seen Delta doing it. Now that I think of it, I believe CO was doing it for the EWR flights, but I still don't recall getting my bags checked on the IAH flights I took, unless my memory is that clouded.

They do it in Mexico for all the US flights, but it is very random, and there is always a rentacop in MTY who goes on a power trip every time, and every time he scanned me he would thoroughly examine my bags while half of the plane went by. Last time he searched me I wasn't in the mood to put up with his BS, so when he asked me if I had anything in my pockets I said "Yes, I have 30 pesos and 5 dollars in coins, a cellphone, my wallet, eye drops, an iPod, earphones and two pens", do keep in mind this is right after the regular checkpoint and I was ready for the flight, so he asked me to take everything out, I sighed loudly and took everything out slowly. Out of 50ish passengers, 20 something got searched, and he may have searched 2 or 3, because I spent a more than 5 minutes there, and bus boarding time for that flight is not more than 20 mins.

Contrary to that, every time I've gotten my stuff screened at the gate by a mix of PF and Army at MEX and GDL they've been very professional, seems like they don't need a badge to show who they are.

Do they still have the display of confiscated things at PTY? Last time I was there they had a large cube made out of plexiglas and they had all the confiscated stuff for display there. People tried to get hacksaws, machetes, butcher knives, hammers, and all sorts of stuff, and lots of license plates too. I always thought about figuring out who managed that at the airport so I could offer them $40-50 in exchange for all the license plates.

And I was gate screened at AMS too, but that was the only screening, they didn't have the x-ray at the entrance of the gate and a hand inspection at the jetway, which would be extremely pointless.

TLV security does not care about liquids. You can carry as much as you want through it.

When you board a US-bound flight (at least on US carriers, I have never flown El Al to the States) the airline inspects your hand luggage for liquids.

This works very well, as no US-bound flight from TLV has ever had a liquid cause an explosion on it.

Of course, no flight from TLV to any other country has ever had a liquid cause an explosion on it either, but that is besides the point.

TLV security does not care about liquids. You can carry as much as you want through it.


Not entirely true... if you are judged to be a low security risk, you can carry any amount of liquids. If you are judged to be high risk, you'll be directed to the "special" security line and they will remove any liquid over 50ml (yes 50 -- half of what's allowed elsewhere). They will also arbitrarily decide that some items which are solid elsewhere in the world are actually liquid in TLV and confiscate those, regardless of size.

Not entirely true... if you are judged to be a low security risk, you can carry any amount of liquids. If you are judged to be high risk, you'll be directed to the "special" security line and they will remove any liquid over 50ml (yes 50 -- half of what's allowed elsewhere). They will also arbitrarily decide that some items which are solid elsewhere in the world are actually liquid in TLV and confiscate those, regardless of size.

Do you have anything to back that up?

In general, the Israeli method is to look for terrorists, not for weapons. As far as I know, you will not get on a plane unaccompanied unless Security is certain that you present no danger to it.

If they have a question, but are not certain, you will be allowed to board only an El Al plane and you will be put in middle seat (window if it is Biz) with an security agent sitting next to you in the aisle seat.

This is what happened when Richard Reid, the shoe bomber, flew to Israel.

ATH, PVG, and IST do the same thing for US Bound flights.

So I went through my usual practice of going through security and then buying a bottle of water air-side for my long-ish flight from PTY to EWR.

Agents went through all bags at the gate and confiscated the water. Do their x-rays at the security checkpoint not detect liquids? Is this a new rule? Only for flights to the U.S.? Of course the security agent had the usual blank, indifferent look when I tried to ask questions. There were certainly no signs or announcements about this.
PTY has been that way for years.

Do you have anything to back that up?

In general, the Israeli method is to look for terrorists, not for weapons. As far as I know, you will not get on a plane unaccompanied unless Security is certain that you present no danger to it.

If they have a question, but are not certain, you will be allowed to board only an El Al plane and you will be put in middle seat (window if it is Biz) with an security agent sitting next to you in the aisle seat.


Yes, personal experience. None of the rest of what you posted is true except for "the Israeli method is to look for terrorists, not weapons."