bmi diamond club - LHR DME - why is it for sale still as BD for Nov/Dec? I have an idea!

On checking Bmi/ba.com there is still the BD flight number and A320/A321 service to Moscow in Oct-Dec. I thought BD would disappear by end of the summer schedule.

I have heard that due to the bi-lateral agreements there needs to be two UK carriers and two Ruski carriers on the route. I reckon another UK airline is lined up to take over the BD service and it has a red tail fin! Watch this space I reckon!

That may be the case. But I think the "two UK carriers" is an upper limit, not a requirement. (i.e. there can be no more than two operating - but there doesn't have to be two).

Anyways, there is little chance of any BD booking made for that time period ending up putting you on a Virgin plane - you would, instead, end up on a BA service.

Moscow was one of the routes that has special provisions attached by the EC as a result of the bmi/BA merger:

Moscow

The 42 slots IAG will acquire is 14 fewer than the 56 announced at the time of the Dec-2011 deal when IAG assumed, publicly, it could acquire all of bmi's slots. Of the 14 sacrificed slots, IAG has reached an agreement with Russia's Transaero for two slots. London-Moscow (all airports included) is served by four carriers: Aeroflot, bmi, British Airways and Transaero. BA is already the largest operator and with bmi's existing capacity would have twice the capacity of the next-largest carrier, Aeroflot. Transaero deploys the least amount of capacity, and unlike SkyTeam-aligned Aeroflot, is not a member of a global alliance, making it an ideal candidate to support, as the direct competitive impact will be the least. (Russian oneworld member S7 does not serve London, but even if it did would have been unlikely to be eligible for additional slots, although its service on the route may have allayed competition concerns and not require concessions on the Moscow route.)

Moscow to London (seats per week, one way): 19-Sep-2011 to 30-Sep-2012
http://www.centreforaviation.com/images/stories/2012/april/10/london_moscow_capacity.png
Source: CAPA – Centre for Aviation & Innovata

If Transaero does not end up using the slots, IAG will offer them to another carrier looking to serve the London-Moscow route or on the five other destinations the EC has flagged as where IAG's sacrificed slots can be used to (so called designated city pairs): London to Aberdeen, Cairo, Edinburgh, Nice and Riyadh, all bmi destinations. Transaero taking up two slots leaves 12 IAG more that it needs to concede. Five will be for use on the designated city pairs (Aberdeen, Cairo, Edinburgh, Moscow, Nice and Riyadh) while the remaining seven will be explicitly for Aberdeen and/or Edinburgh. On these routes, IAG was judged to have too large a hold on the market, either by number or proportionally.

So it seems entirely likely that, going forward, there will only be 3 carriers on the route, with Transaero being the one to benefit from old bmi slot-pairs.

I believe that the slots referred to are already leased to Transaero by bmi in any case, basically the T&C's prevent Transaero being turfed out of their slots, they are not getting more.

I think that if your looking to fly to DME in December book whichever fare is the cheaper, BD/BA. I think it will matter not as come December you will end up on a BA branded aircraft operating under a BA flight number.

Its unlikely that any slots that have to be given up as a result of the take over will be taken over by anyone (SRB) this early as it takes time to get aircraft, ops etc in place for new routes.

Most likely in my opinion is that you will see 5 BA rotations a day to DME until whoever gets the slots has an operation in place to operate it


cs

Most likely in my opinion is that you will see 5 BA rotations a day to DME until whoever gets the slots has an operation in place to operate it


cs

But wasn't there a bit of excitement when BA launched the 747 from the Russian Authorities? They did not like the fact that there was potentially extra capacity on BA. I understand someone from the V airline has a few Russian stamps in thier passport from the last few months! Just maybe!

Most likely in my opinion is that you will see 5 BA rotations a day to DME until whoever gets the slots has an operation in place to operate it


cs

But wasn't there a bit of excitement when BA launched the 747 from the Russian Authorities? They did not like the fact that there was potentially extra capacity on BA. I understand someone from the V airline has a few Russian stamps in thier passport from the last few months! Just maybe!


Oh iv no doubt that the beardy one is on the case with DME.

However my point is that I think BA can keep the route with the bmi frequencies until whoever gets the slots has its operation in place, which might well be the start of the 2013 summer schedule.

Not that I know but I'm guessing that by the time the slot bidding and award is sorted out it will take a while to launch the route, pure guess work from me.

cs

As mentioned on A.net VS have annouced the intention to start flights to DME in 2013!

AIUI, all that VS has so far confirmed (which I think is all that VS can so far confirm) is that it has applied for the slots for this purpose (and implicitly quietly dropped its threat to start a UK domestic operation).

AIUI, all that VS has so far confirmed (which I think is all that VS can so far confirm) is that it has applied for the slots for this purpose (and implicitly quietly dropped its threat to start a UK domestic operation).

Correct. And I doubt BA will be transferring any of the BD bookings to VS either.

and implicitly quietly dropped its threat to start a UK domestic operation
Now, what a surprise... ;)

FWIW I was contacted by BD yesterday and told that my itinerary for Feb 8 had to be transferred from BD flights to existing BA flights. So I guess it is fair to say that they plan to cancel some or all BD flights on or before Feb 2013.
Understandably new mid-haul is good but getting moved from 321 to upper desk of 744 is appreciated :)
AX

FWIW I was contacted by BD yesterday and told that my itinerary for Feb 8 had to be transferred from BD flights to existing BA flights. So I guess it is fair to say that they plan to cancel some or all BD flights on or before Feb 2013.
Understandably new mid-haul is good but getting moved from 321 to upper desk of 744 is appreciated :)
AX

The BD flights have been removed from the winter timetable.

Indeed, I called up today regarding a different schedule change on my booking and found out that my DME - LHR had also changed (to a BA flight).

Originally booked on the 19:15 BD departure, I've been moved to the 18:10 on a 747. I see there is also an option of 19:35 which was actually preferable, but it's on a 767 so thought I'd best not select it in case it ends up being Club Europe.

I was looking forward to the new BD seats on what would have been, my last BD aircraft flight. :(

Indeed, I called up today regarding a different schedule change on my booking and found out that my DME - LHR had also changed (to a BA flight).

Originally booked on the 19:15 BD departure, I've been moved to the 18:10 on a 747. I see there is also an option of 19:35 which was actually preferable, but it's on a 767 so thought I'd best not select it in case it ends up being Club Europe.

I was looking forward to the new BD seats on what would have been, my last BD aircraft flight. :(



The 763 won't be a European configured version.

The BA DME service is 1x744 and 2x763 with the 763 being the longhaul variant with a very nice club product.


cs

Oh I realise it wouldn't be scheduled with a CE product, but I was more concerned about last minute switches....or was that more of a bmi thing (e.g. swapping their A321 with an A319).

So what would be better, J in a three class BA 747, or J in a two class BA 767?
I can assume the latter is going to be quicker to board and unload...according to the schedules it last takes an extra 20 minutes to fly which isn't a bad thing if the product is fine.

There's always a possibility of a equipment change but from years on the BA board it does seem to happen regularly the other way, shorthaul aircraft route ends up with a longhaul bird.

There are occasions when the opposite has happened but it's rare.

The flight you take is your choice, if the timetable isn't an issue take the 744 flight and try and bag the upper deck, if you need to be on the 767 flight, you will have a lovely product to fly and might even get a refurbished 763


cs

Looking to sneak in a final economist on the BD flights to DME in October... can anyone let me know when the winter schedule starts? And is it still possible to book DME on a BD flight under the old BD earning table (incl C&M)?

Thanks
Stewie

Looking to sneak in a final economist on the BD flights to DME in October... can anyone let me know when the winter schedule starts? And is it still possible to book DME on a BD flight under the old BD earning table (incl C&M)?


As the flight still carries a BD code you can still use the regular diamond club earning table.

But... would you want to?

bmi
Y: 12000 miles + taxes (or 6000 miles + £70 + taxes)
J: 18000 miles + taxes (or 9000 miles + £105 + taxes)

BA
Y: 20000 avios + £27 (no extra taxes) (or 12000 avios + £70)
W: 30000 avios + £30
J: 40000 avios + £34
F: 60000 avios + £40

Although it uses considerably more miles to fly on BA, you don't have to pay the taxes as although Moscow is a club world destination it still is classed as a european flight so reward flight saver rates apply.

If you're a BD Gold the miles and cash in J would be less though.

Better value if you can tag it on to the end of another journey through Moscow and make it a one-way (thus avoiding more tax).

As the flight still carries a BD code you can still use the regular diamond club earning table.

But... would you want to?

bmi
J: (or 9000 miles + £105 + taxes)

BA
J: 40000 avios + £34


Work trip, so they pay the $ and I pony up the miles. Why would I not want to? :D

Back to my other question - when does the winter schedule kick in?

Ta

Work trip, so they pay the $ and I pony up the miles. Why would I not want to? :D

Back to my other question - when does the winter schedule kick in?

Ta

Due to restrictions on the number of flights we are allowed to operate to the city, the bmi service to Moscow will be suspended from 12 October 2012. Customers will be re-accommodated onto the British Airways service, which has recently been upgraded to a long haul operation.

So 12th October for your purposes, but officially 28th October is when the winter schedule is supposed to start.

...I think BA can keep the route with the bmi frequencies until whoever gets the slots has its operation in place, which might well be the start of the 2013 summer schedule.

Seems the first bit of what you said is bang on.

Easyjet is getting the route... wait for it - from Gatwick! :D

And suddenly a beard is on fire .... ;)

Branson unhappy with decision

In the hearing, we said the vast majority of people who fly to Moscow live in the Heathrow catchment area, not the Gatwick area, which is where easyJet wants to fly from. We said we would put on an A330, which would have 125,000 more seats per year than the A320 that easyJet is planning to put on.

Virgin Atlantic explained it would be able to connect a lot of passengers onto the US and our other long-distance routes via Heathrow. The Moscow-London route is also a major cargo route and Atlantic's A330 would be able to compete with BA in the cargo market, whereas the A320 doesn't have any cargo lift. We could challenge BA with our Upper and Premium Economy offerings and, because we had 125,000 more seats a year, it is likely we would be able to match or offer lower fares than EasyJet, especially when you take into account all the essential extras that you have to pay for on easyJet but which come as standard with Virgin Atlantic.

The CAA believe by allowing a carrier at Gatwick to take the route they have opened up a new market. In our opinion that wasn't what the European competition authorities intended when they said BA had to release slots at Heathrow in order to protect competition between London and Moscow.

Branson unhappy with decision


Is he ever happy?

The points attributed to RB are quite fair, however. BA pricing right now is rather ridiculous, compared to SU and UN (and I have now ruled out UN due to the end of their partnership with BD DC). EZ will have limited impact for business travellers, who are more likely to fly from LHR and/or corporate travel packages and/or J.