Disability Travel - Was this woman running a "wheelchair scam?"

I was arriving DFW yesterday on a Delta flight in first class. A rather large woman was sitting in seat 1B. Upon landing, she started to get up, when the flight attendant cam over and said "you can sit down if you like and I can have the wheelchair brought on after every one has deplaned." The wheelchair user said, "No, I'd just prefer to stand." Following this, she started grabbing her large, heavy bags out of the overhead compartment.

Once we got off, she said to the wheelchair porter, "I'll just meet you at the top of the jetbridge." At this point, she transferred all her bags to the wheelchair, which he then pushed (fully-loaded) up to the departure lounge.

She then got in the wheelchair, he had the bags, and he proceeded to wheel her the short distance to the baggage claim area. At this point, she handed the guy a few bucks, and said "I think I can manage from here." She then collected a heavy bag from the baggage carousel, and took off walking at a good clip with her baggage in tow-- out the door.

...?

It's possible she has one of those "hidden disabilities".

The miracle of flight strikes again. People never cease to amaze me!

Sounds like DL 173's final TPAC segment. Usually 40+ wheelchair assisted pax are wheeled onto the 744 at NRT and miraculously many of them deplane under their own power pushing people out of the way despite announcement for them to stay put and wait for the chairs.

Well that woman has found a plan that works for her.

When my injured leg was at its worst both in looks and performance, I often had to beg for help when traveling. I was covering up the damage with dress slacks. Learned that letting the damage show got me better help. People took it more seriously that I needed help.

Now the same leg sets off the TSA machines (no metal in leg) and requires a pat down.

When they ask if it hurts (before patting) I tell them an honest 'yes'.

It's hard to believe that someone would do that. I'm of the opinion that she did, indeed, have some type of disability that prevented her from being on her feet any length of time. If she had lower body problems (legs, hip) that doesn't necessarily mean she doesn' have upper body mobility would account for the fact that she can get her overhead baggage just like anyone else.

Bobette

I don't know how many people are running a wheel chair scam. Sometimes things do appear suspicious. There may be reasons we don't understand.
Once I had to travel a bout 10 days after abdominal surgery, which advised me to not bend for six weeks. The airline suggested that the best way to handle TSA would be to ask for wheel chair assistance, my wife could wheel me to the TSA checkpoint, get me through the security and on to gate. She could do any bending necessary for going through security. I had no trouble walking. At my connection in DTW, they had already ordered a wheel chair. I told the FA that I could walk. But she insisted, she was very nice, that I should use the wheel chair, as I needed it. She had heard my wife tell TSA guys that I had just had surgery. Through out that trip I was offered a wheel chair when I felt I didn't need it. If you are in a wheel chair, you get whisked through security, unless of course there are many wheel chair passengers.

That said, I know of one person, personally, who asked for a wheel chair because it makes here feel "privileged" to not have to walk, to be able to board. Her husband was feeble and probably did need a wheel chair. The couple, who had never travelled by air before, did not know that wheel chair assistance was available. Their children asked for wheel chair assistance for the husband. When the wife saw how her husband was "pampered", she decided she was unable to walk too.

Another example that might look like a scam. I arrived at JFK and was met by Delta's DM meet and greet person. I deposited my bag after customs for my onward connection. I told the TSA guy at the security that I could not stand with my shoes off due medical reasons. They always send for a secondary pat down and send my shoes through Xray after I have been able to sit down and take my shoes off. But one TSA detail at at JFK had a different idea. They demanded a doctor's certificate, which I did not have. I told them what is done at other airports and that I am told that a doctor's certificate was not needed. A supervisor was called and he sided with the staffer. I was told I WOULD not clear security unless I took my shoes off. The Delta rep was watching this as I was being harassed. He came over to talk to the supervisor, he refused to budge. The Delta rep got on the phone and talked to someone. He asked me to follow him. I thought this was going to get ugly. After we got away from the TSA check point, he told me we would go through another gate, and just in case I were harassed at the other gate too, he asked for a wheel chair even though I told him I didn't need it.
Here, I have described three incidents, in two of which I was personally involved, when wheel chairs were used, but were not necessary.
I think people have caught on that using a wheel chair speeds things up and it is used for that purpose too. I am sure, there is some abuse. I can't say how much.

People seem to think that using a wheelchair has benefits. I'd gladly trade places with anyone who wants to use my chair. I'd love to be able to stand in line again.

I've posted before, but a few years ago, there were 30+ people in wheelchairs waiting for one flight I was on. I was the only one who couldn't get up and walk when it was time to board. I was pre-boarded because of the need for assistance. The others were pre-boarded too, but every one of them walked to their seat. Seeing that bothered me, but I'm sure some of them were for real.

People seem to think that using a wheelchair has benefits. I'd gladly trade places with anyone who wants to use my chair. I'd love to be able to stand in line again.

I've posted before, but a few years ago, there were 30+ people in wheelchairs waiting for one flight I was on. I was the only one who couldn't get up and walk when it was time to board. I was pre-boarded because of the need for assistance. The others were pre-boarded too, but every one of them walked to their seat. Seeing that bothered me, but I'm sure some of them were for real.

That said when my leg was at its worst I was able to seat myself. I had to major issues when using it: it hurt! and fall risk.

I did have falls and some close calls but mostly at home when I was trying to do something that I wasn't really ready to do. At one point in my own property I had to telephone my husband for help after getting into a situation I could not solve.

I've learned not to judge people's reasons for asking for assistance. I should have asked more often!

I've learned not to judge people's reasons for asking for assistance. I should have asked more often!

You're probably right, but it is not easy to resist judging when there are so many fakers out there.

Here is the problem.
There are three types of wheel chair users at airports.

People with nearly no mobility at all. If it were not for a wheel chair, they would not be travelling.
People whose mobility is impaired but can get about without a wheel chair with various degrees of difficulty. This forms a continuum. This also includes people who are recovering from an accident or surgery.
People who have discovered "perks" of a wheel chair. In a world where elite travel perks, such as, priority lines, priority boarding and seating, are visible, some people have found a way to get the perks they want via a wheel chair. For them a wheel chair is a privilege or a valet service.
Often, there is no fool proof way to judge or distinguish among them, at least not until they start walking. Trying to distinguish can land one in legal trouble.

Yaatri, so true!

In the USA it is in fact illegal to ask what a person's problem may be.

However elsewhere in the world, the questions are asked and often to a great degree.

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Yaatri, so true!

In the USA it is in fact illegal to ask what a person's problem may be.

However elsewhere in the world, the questions are asked and often to a great degree.

You are right tjat it's illegal to ask a petson about their disability, it does not prevent some jerks to insist anyway. They not only ask what it is but also ask you to produce proof, "How do I know you are not lying!".
I was told tha I would nit be allowed to go through the security ar that checkpoint unless I had proof. The Delta "meet & greet" rep for DM's was watching. So he ordered a wheel chair and took me through another checkpoint, even though I would have preferred that he fougjt foe me.
Our own federal agencies don't follow our laws. Other countries don't have the same laws, but have been treated more respectfully. sometimes I am often asked to show my leg, as I wear a knee brace without being offered private screening. In Japan, they offer me private room. In other countries, they take my word that I have a knee brace, and don't ask me to "show" it to them.
Laws mean little when people, especially those with a little power, choose to not obey thise laws.

In other countries, I have seen fights errupting. In one case, a woman was pushing her an older woman in a wheel chair to take her through security. A person behind me in the the queue objected to that because, he felt only the wheel chair bound, not the accompanying person, could bypass the queue. Others joined in an aggressive manner to force her to join the queue. When my attempts to convince them failed and it looked like it was going to turn ugly, I git tjr attention of an offucial to allow them to proceed to the front of the line. Bothe women were foreign and did not speak the local language. Some travellers figght aggressively, any way they can to seek and preserve "advantage" over others and view every one going around the queue with suspicion.

It's illegal for the airline to ask, but not for most others.

One should never assume they are able to diagnose anyone's ailments from the outside. People who use wheelchair service may be doing so for a variety of issues that are not visible, e.g. pain, balance issues etc. Never judge anyone until you've walked a mile in their (wheelchair!)

One should never assume they are able to diagnose anyone's ailments from the outside. People who use wheelchair service may be doing so for a variety of issues that are not visible, e.g. pain, balance issues etc. Never judge anyone until you've walked a mile in their (wheelchair!)

I think you are preaching to the choir here. The word "scam" is not being used for people in a wheel chair who don;t "look" disabled, but for people in a wheel chair, who board a plane in a wheel chair, but are miraculously cured when they arrive at the end of the flight.
It's doing a great disservice to those who are truly in need of a wheel chair.

These days, most Americans who need a wheel chair, have their own.

One should never assume they are able to diagnose anyone's ailments from the outside. People who use wheelchair service may be doing so for a variety of issues that are not visible, e.g. pain, balance issues etc. Never judge anyone until you've walked a mile in their (wheelchair!)

What about those of us who have thousands of miles of wheelchair experience? :confused:

Actually, I agree with you, somewhat, but there are definitely plenty of fakers out there.

I think you are preaching to the choir here. The word "scam" is not being used for people in a wheel chair who don;t "look" disabled, but for people in a wheel chair, who board a plane in a wheel chair, but are miraculously cured when they arrive at the end of the flight.
It's doing a great disservice to those who are truly in need of a wheel chair.

These days, most Americans who need a wheel chair, have their own.
I hear you, but I think it is amazing that you assume you can tell with absolute certainty that they are "cured" unless you have some special powers the rest of us do not. Reminds me of a certain senator who "diagnosed" based on a video clip. The only question I have for you is: isn't there some possibility that you are wrong about some of your diagnoses?

:rolleyes:I hear you, but I think it is amazing that you assume you can tell with absolute certainty that they are "cured" unless you have some special powers the rest of us do not. Reminds me of a certain senator who "diagnosed" based on a video clip. The only question I have for you is: isn't there some possibility that you are wrong about some of your diagnoses?
Here is the problem.
There are three types of wheel chair users at airports.

People with nearly no mobility at all. If it were not for a wheel chair, they would not be travelling.
People whose mobility is impaired but can get about without a wheel chair with various degrees of difficulty. This forms a continuum. This also includes people who are recovering from an accident or surgery.
People who have discovered "perks" of a wheel chair. In a world where elite travel perks, such as, priority lines, priority boarding and seating, are visible, some people have found a way to get the perks they want via a wheel chair. For them a wheel chair is a privilege or a valet service.
Often, there is no fool proof way to judge or distinguish among them, at least not until they start walking
You may hear me, but you certainly don't read.
No I am not. Read my posts from the beginning. Do you have some special powers to read my mind? It's good to keep practice to keep an open mind, not simply parroting the idea.
It's even a better idea to read and understand what you read before start accusing others.:rolleyes:

What about those of us who have thousands of miles of wheelchair experience? :confused:
Actually, I agree with you, somewhat, but there are definitely plenty of fakers out there.

Especially NYC-PBI where many pax that require wheelchairs in NYC have miraculous inflight healing and don't require them in PBI. :D

Not wheelchair related, but a decade ago I broke my big toe. I travelled soon afterwards, and wanted to pre board to make sure I didn't hurt it in a crowd of boarders. One flight no problem, the next the GA gave me a hard time. Not fun at all.

Not wheelchair related, but a decade ago I broke my big toe. I travelled soon afterwards, and wanted to pre board to make sure I didn't hurt it in a crowd of boarders. One flight no problem, the next the GA gave me a hard time. Not fun at all.

Because there are plenty of fakers that some posters refuse to admit. I have used a wheel chair twice, once on a post surgery trip. I Would have preboarded anyway as a PM. I did walk walk away at the other end. I could walk but needed assistance at security, for which my wife asked for a gate pass. Airlines instead insisted that I have a wheel chair as that takes the decision out of the hands of individual GA or TSA agents, who might or might not take your word.
Even now that I have recovered from surgery, I can walk, but have a great deal of difficulty standing in once place, like a line, especially one, that's not moving, like one at a security checkpoint or on a Jetway when someone when some one has blocked the aisle bringing the line to a halt. I am usually in F, but of miss F boarding, I could be stuck on a jetway. Some days it's difficult to walk also, as some days are worse than others. But I don't use a wheel chair because I like to walk. I know how frustrating it is to not be able to walk using your legs.

I had said up-thread that there are three categories of people in wheel chairs. I suppose the number of categories could be whittled down to two.
Those who would love to be able to walk but are in a wheel chair instead.
Those who can, with varying degree of difficulties but love to be in a wheel chair at predictable times.

:rolleyes:

You may hear me, but you certainly don't read.
No I am not. Read my posts from the beginning. Do you have some special powers to read my mind? It's good to keep practice to keep an open mind, not simply parroting the idea.
It's even a better idea to read and understand what you read before start accusing others.:rolleyes:
I am sorry if I offended you but I just don't find your comments to be consistent.

First of all, I will concede that of course there are people who abuse the system. However, you say that you understand, via personal experience, that there are people who have little or no trouble walking but can NOT comfortably stand still --- as in long lines. Would it not make sense then that there are those who use wheelchair services for boarding when there can be extremely long lines but then don't need them upon arrival (where lines are not an issue) when as you say they are "cured"?

You admit that "there is no fool proof way to judge or distinguish" "until they start walking." So at the point they "start walking" you can then judge??? I'm sorry but I just find that very presumptuous and judgmental.

That you say people can be divided up into finite numbers of categories is an example of the kind of thinking which many people who live with disabilities find deeply offensive; I was unable to find myself in any of your categories.

I don't know how many people are running a wheel chair scam. Sometimes things do appear suspicious. There may be reasons we don't understand.
The above is from my very first post. Did you read it?
I am sorry if I offended you but I just don't find your comments to be consistent.
Yes you have.
I was ready to accept your apology, but then I saw the rest of your post. I don't understand what it is you are trying to do. Are you on some kind of crusade? My ambivalence is quite evident.
First of all, I will concede that of course there are people who abuse the system. However, you say that you understand, via personal experience, that there are people who have little or no trouble walking but can NOT comfortably stand still --- as in long lines. Would it not make sense then that there are those who use wheelchair services for boarding when there can be extremely long lines but then don't need them upon arrival (where lines are not an issue) when as you say they are "cured"?

How about if you try to understand after you read my posts. I don't even understand what its you want to say. Is it an inquisition? If you read carefully, I have never asked for a wheel chair.
I also know from personal experience some use it just because --- and this is not a conjecture.
So why do dissect my post and relating one kind of personal experience while ignoring the other kind. I think your objection is quite irrational.

You are beginning to annoy me now. Why are you so obsessed with tearing my post apart? What is it you are trying to achieve?

You admit that "there is no fool proof way to judge or distinguish" "until they start walking." So at the point they "start walking" you can then judge??? I'm sorry but I just find that very presumptuous and judgmental.
I admit? That sounds like a very strong word, as if there is some legal inquiry and I am under oath. Had I know that I would have worded it more carefully. Until they start walking, you can't even hope to tell fakers apart. Do you want the scene describe in every detail with photographs and the ability to zoom as well as?
Frankly I don't care what you think.
That you say people can be divided up into finite numbers of categories is an example of the kind of thinking which many people who live with disabilities find deeply offensive; I was unable to find myself in any of your categories.
You are looking too hard to find something to be offended. What is so offensive about it? You find innovative ways of being offended while being quite offensive yourself. :rolleyes: Tell me more about you. I will put you in a category too, or even devise one for you. Seriously I am not making laws here. So lets not get too serious with yourself here. No one else has said they were offended.

I am disabled, the more I move the more my calcium levels drop which leads to numbness, heart issues and if things get bad enough seizures. I have a handicapped parking badge to avoid walking in general. It isn't something anyone can see, and I push myself way more than I should. DH tried to get my to use a wheelchair last time I flew but I was too embarrassed. I needed IV calcium upon arrival at my destination and after my return home because of my stubbornness.

My son is also disabled, tube fed and needs oxygen during flight (as well as sleeping even on the land) so the airline knows he is coming. No matter how much we insisted that we had his stroller (he is six, was five when we flew last) they kept ordering a wheelchair for him, that we kept refusing. With all of his equipment getting through the airport was a bear though.

Next time though, I may well be the suitcase wielding, walking to my seat and where I need to, wheelchair riding lady. It certainly is what my doctors would prefer and would make me journey a lot safer.

I found that many airlines prefer, or more accurately find it easier, to deal with black and white categories, so sometimes "can walk but cannot ascend/descend stairs" becomes "yes-wheelchair" at certain airports because there is no up-to-date information on whether there will be stairs between the plane and the curb. Sometimes it's not the person, but the airline that insists on the wheelchair.

I found that many airlines prefer, or more accurately find it easier, to deal with black and white categories, so sometimes "can walk but cannot ascend/descend stairs" becomes "yes-wheelchair" at certain airports because there is no up-to-date information on whether there will be stairs between the plane and the curb. Sometimes it's not the person, but the airline that insists on the wheelchair.

Absolutely. But I do know at least one person, who asked for a wheel chair without any issues. And I was put in wheel chair by the airline concierge because TSA personnel at that checkpoint were acti8ng like jerks.
Airlines have suggested a wheel chair to me on many many times.
I prefer to walk though.
I know some people can't. I can though.

Here's the deal. I have Multiple Sclerosis. Diagnosed 7 years ago but have probably had it for 30+ years according to my Neurologist.

I cannot stand in line for more than a couple of minutes without terrible, buring pain in my feet. No one knows this but me. I cannot walk great distances through large airport terminals because of weak legs. No one knows this but me.

I take 3 times as long to negotiate a downward sloping jetway than I do to exit through an upward sloping jetway. Don't ask me why......I don't know.......it's just the way it is.

If you saw me sitting in a wheelchair or exiting an upward sloping jetway, you'd probably judge that I have no or minimal disability, but you'd be wrong. I'm embarrassed to use a wheelchair, but it's the only way I can travel these days, so wheelchair it is! People can just judge away and whisper about my apparent lack of disability.........I don't hear too well these days either!!

It is really impossible to evaluate a person who uses a wheelchair for legitimate reasons and one who takes advantage of the system. In this case I can see myself behaving in a similar manner.

Often after we arrive at the gate I need to stand to relieve the spasms in my back. So I could easily tell a flight attendant that I preferred to stand for a few minutes.

I reserve whatever energy I have to take care of myself. It is a point of pride with me that I get my carry-on into the overhead bin by myself. It is one of the little things I do to preserve my dignity. So I would have removed my own carry-ons regardless of how heavy they might have been.

I am also a large woman. If the wheelchair pusher is small and the jetway is uphill it is often almost impossible for the pusher to get the chair up the jetway with me in it. It is so embarrassing when they have to get someone to help them push the wheelchair. To avoid this, on rare occasion, I have put my carry-on bags in the wheelchair and slowly managed my way to the end of the jetway.

Once there I am happy to plop into the wheelchair for my final destination. At the luggage carousel I do not jump out of the wheelchair, grab heavy luggage from the carousel and bounce out the door, but there maybe some other reasons why this woman was able or felt the need to retrieve her own luggage and exit the airport on her own. She may have felt she had no choice. I have been "dumped" at the luggage carousel more times than I can count, and if I did not know better I might assume that wheelchair service ends when I reach the carousel.

The bottom line is that none of us can evaluate the disabilities of another person, and it is pointless to speculate and fret over judgements we make on the basis of inadequate information.

I personally hate the wheelchair. I hate not being able to make my own decisions. I cannot shop in an airport store. I cannot stop for a snack or a beverage and certainly not for a meal. I am embarrassed when I have to ask the person to stop at the restroom. I hate being stuck at the gate while people gather around me trying to determine why I am in the wheelchair, and if it is just an attempt at early boarding I always want to shout that we have early boarding with our status so I am not doing anything I could not do without the wheelchair. I hate that crowd at the gate with everyone struggling to be the first on the plane.

I just cannot conceive of anyone deliberately using a wheelchair when it is not necessary. I am sure those of us who do depend upon them agree that it is much more pleasant to walk through the airport on our own feet.

Unfortunately, the media is picking up on this type of story and that will continue to influence the general public's perception of need... :(

The New York Times: A Few Passengers Use Wheelchairs to Avoid Airport Lines - October 3, 2012 (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/04/nyregion/a-few-passengers-use-wheelchairs-to-avoid-airport-lines.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all)
TIME Magazine: Wheelchair Fakers Skip Airport Security Lines - October 8, 2012 (http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/10/08/wheelchair-fakers-skip-airport-security-lines/#ixzz28iCyOcEG)

HOUSTON (CBS HOUSTON) – A wheelchair request can put you at the front of a long airport line.

Or, at least, that’s the angle some fully-abled passengers are using to cut through the winding queues at airport security checkpoints, the New York Times reported. According to the 1986 Air Carrier Access Act, airlines are required to accommodate disabled travelers — who need not show any proof of disability — free of charge.

And this isn’t news to airport staffers.

“When [travelers] see that the line is so long, they just ask for a wheelchair,” Evelyn Danquah, an attendant for Delta Air Lines, told the Times. She said she has seen some wheelchair fakers stand and walk away as soon as they clear security. Wheelchair attendants — whose salaries range between $9 and $14 an hour, with tips, help to maintain a “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy regarding the line-hopping strategy in hopes of bolstering their paychecks, the Times reported.

The tactic even spawned a new term among flight attendants: “miracle flights.” Where passengers use wheelchairs to board but abandon them when their planes land.

http://houston.cbslocal.com/2012/10/08/scammers-using-wheelchairs-to-skip-airport-lines-legally/

I am sure there are some legitimate scammers (is that an oxymoron?), but I also used to work with a guy who looked perfectly healthy, but had a Handicap placard for parking. He told me when we went out one day that he has a disease (forget the name) that prohibits him from walking or standing for long periods.

I have an issue with a hip. Most of the time, I am quite okay. But, when it flares up like it did last night on a trip to MSP, I was barely able to negotiate the airport without asking for a chair. Pride wouldn't let me ask, but I am sure it doesn't stop others.

All they need to do is put them in the back of the plane, for safety reason the plane needs to be cleared in an emergency so the passengers can get off quickly, can not be done with wheelchairs in the front of the plane...
Ii also have seen to many walk fast off the plane..

with tips

The American disease of undepaid workers having to rely on tips strikes again.

The American disease of undepaid workers having to rely on tips strikes again.

$14/hour to push a wheelchair seems fair to me for an unskilled worker doing manual labor with the assistance of a simple machine. Likely the "reliance" on tips, as you put it, can be attributed more to the American habituation to tipping in general.

apparently no one thought of looking at nyc-fll/mia flights. Those seem to be healer flights.

apparently no one thought of looking at nyc-fll/mia flights. Those seem to be healer flights.

Funny story about that. I was flying out of FLL yesterday, and two disheveled passengers approached the guard for the SkyPriority security line begging to be let in because they were running late. The guard enforced the rule, and said they would need to wait in the main line unless they went and got a wheelchair from the counter. She then gave them very clear directions on how to get a wheelchair, and off they went. Five minutes later, she quickly ushered them through the SP line with their wheelchair. :rolleyes:

(At risk of drifting off topic and/or stirring up a serious debate ...)

Why is it that people in wheelchairs get to skip the lines anyway? I've never understood this. If someone has a disability or whatever such that they need a wheelchair to get around, then sure, the airport and airlines should accommodate this. But what on earth has requiring a wheelchair got to do with waiting vs. skipping a line?

When I travel with my Dad (84) he uses a wheelchair. It's nice to have the front of line perks, but frankly he needs it due to his age and Parkinson's. Overall it's still a much slower process as everything just takes a little bit longer.

People doing this makes me sick.

(At risk of drifting off topic and/or stirring up a serious debate ...)

Why is it that people in wheelchairs get to skip the lines anyway? I've never understood this. If someone has a disability or whatever such that they need a wheelchair to get around, then sure, the airport and airlines should accommodate this. But what on earth has requiring a wheelchair got to do with waiting vs. skipping a line?

I think it has to do with the attendant who is being paid hourly to escort the passenger to their gate. Airlines don't want to pay them to wait in line, and generally need them back ASAP to assist the next customer.

I think it has to do with the attendant who is being paid hourly to escort the passenger to their gate. Airlines don't want to pay them to wait in line, and generally need them back ASAP to assist the next customer.

Aaah! That makes sense, thanks. I really have been puzzling over that for years. :-)

(At risk of drifting off topic and/or stirring up a serious debate ...)

Why is it that people in wheelchairs get to skip the lines anyway? I've never understood this. If someone has a disability or whatever such that they need a wheelchair to get around, then sure, the airport and airlines should accommodate this. But what on earth has requiring a wheelchair got to do with waiting vs. skipping a line?

See my earlier post (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/19458134-post9.html)

Part of it has to do with tying up the wheelchair attendant. For many elderly they simply can't wait 30-45 minutes in a line, especially if there are other mitigating factors. You may need to go to the bathroom, take medications etc. on a schedule interval, get tired or disoriented easily etc.

When I travel with my Dad, I always book him in J, and go with him. So he would be have some priority anyway, but this extra gesture from the airport helps.

For most, using a wheelchair is not something they look forward to. My Dad started using a cane/walker very reluctantly and only started accepting a wheelchair in the airport when he absolutely couldn't walk that far anymore.

Fakers will only be hurting those of us with real needs.

(At risk of drifting off topic and/or stirring up a serious debate ...)

Why is it that people in wheelchairs get to skip the lines anyway? I've never understood this. If someone has a disability or whatever such that they need a wheelchair to get around, then sure, the airport and airlines should accommodate this. But what on earth has requiring a wheelchair got to do with waiting vs. skipping a line?

was biting my tongue but it started bleeding profusely so....
I hope you NEVER have to find out! My spouse is elderly and has Parkinson's disease which has slowness of movement as one of its main symptoms. We would have to go through security today to make a flight tomorrow night if there wasn't an expedited process! That being said, there are also many with "hidden" disabilities - rheumatoid arthritis, shattered backs, bladder problems, the list goes on and on, and I feel it's a way of giving those who are disabled dignity and respect. Trust me, I wouldn't want to be in his skin 24/7/365; getting to the head of the line or the front of the class is little reward!

I think this is a symptom of the bigger disease. It has been almost a decade when the threat level went to orange and with all we know and have done it can't be dropped even one notch? TSA continues to spend billions of dollars on more expensive equipment and we have to take off more and more clothes and move even more slowly through the lines. People lash out in various ways over all of this, so some decide to wheel it through. It is all some sort of weird, make me feel safe, federal jobs program that basically does little but spend money.

how is this different from the people that pay use magical melissa at disneyworld to bypass every line there for families who pay $500 per day. she flashes her handicap badge and a perfectly healthy family of 6 goes directly to the front of the line for every ride.

I remember as a kid playing around in a wheelchair at a hospital. I was given a tongue lashing about how lucky I was to not really need one and how I shouldn't tempt fate.

I'll gladly wait in line.

I think it has to do with the attendant who is being paid hourly to escort the passenger to their gate. Airlines don't want to pay them to wait in line, and generally need them back ASAP to assist the next customer.

+1

and it's that many fewer people pushing chairs that you need and that many fewer chairs etc.

Bob H

My Father, who suffered from a stroke so was clearly disabled, joined us on a family vacation to Florida. We had booked a wheelchair in advance and also paid for First so he wouldn't have to navigate down the aisle and be next to lav. I saw first-hand the "magical healing power of flight" when he was one of five wheelchairs boarding and the only wheelchair deplaning.

The best part of the journey was when they lined up the wheelchair passengers to pre-board in LGA and the gate agent when down the line to check boarding passes. When the gate agent got to my Father she pulled him out of line to board ahead of the others (we were originally in fourth). Number One asked why he's going ahead and the GA replied "He's in First." The look on Number One's face was priceless.

FLy to MNL frequently, when connecting in JFK and especially in NRT for the flight tpo MNL, its amazing to see the number fo people needing a whell chair to clear lines and board early, for the main purpose of snagging as much over head bin space as they can manage. For some unknown reason they always seem to let the other 4 or 5 people traveling with them board early also. I can see may be one person, but why all the others?

Funny thing is some where over the South China Sea they all get cured, and when the bell dings to deplane in MNL they all jump up, grab their carry -ons, and make a mad dash off the plane without the need for the wheel chair any longer.

There are legitimate reasons to be in those chairs that are not apparent without a full history or an x-ray machine. My wife broke her leg. Although it is "healed" in one sense of the word, she cannot stand for very long, walk very far and cannot walk very fast. In ATL that generally means you miss your flight. She does use a chair or cart to go long disances and deal with short lay-overs. Last month we had to go from MSP F-8 to B-10 in 40 minutes. We took the cart to the top of the escalator at C-23. She will often opt to walk to the top of the jetbridge to avoid jamming up the rest of the PAX. Is that a "miricle?" No. But if you want her to delay your departure from the plane, I will ask her to get the chair brought right to the aircraft door in the future.

Perhaps all of you judgemental non-medical people (I know that at least two of you will now unroll your medical credentials) should tend to getting yourselves on and off the aircraft and stop diagnosing the people around you.

FLy to MNL frequently, when connecting in JFK and especially in NRT for the flight tpo MNL, its amazing to see the number fo people needing a whell chair to clear lines and board early, for the main purpose of snagging as much over head bin space as they can manage. For some unknown reason they always seem to let the other 4 or 5 people traveling with them board early also. I can see may be one person, but why all the others?

Funny thing is some where over the South China Sea they all get cured, and when the bell dings to deplane in MNL they all jump up, grab their carry -ons, and make a mad dash off the plane without the need for the wheel chair any longer.

Happens all the time to and from MCO. Miracle flights indeed!

I also do not understand why the person's entire extended family needs to board as well. Send one person with them. The others should wait.

Also, I witnessed this today in MCO.... Wheelchair boards, family to follow brought on way more than the allotted carry on. GA questioned it, but did not pursue the checking.....

Those using the wheelchairs frivolously will suffer a comeuppance at some point; there can be nothing more pathetic. Can't think of a worse dose of bad karma.

One of the worst things they could accomplish is making all of us suspicious about the people who really need the assistance. We can't let that happen. I have made up my mind to just assume anyone who uses the wheelchairs actually needs them.

But if you want her to delay your departure from the plane, I will ask her to get the chair brought right to the aircraft door in the future.

Actually, passengers requiring wheelchair assistance are deplaned last.

I have the solution: Make wheelchairs "first on, last off". No exceptions.

Lead flight attendant should collect the connecting boarding pass/baggage claim check/ID of anyone wishing to use a wheelchair to pre-board LAST MINUTE. Establish a "wheelchair registry" as a part of the Delta profile of anyone who regularly/predictably needs one. Legal connection time for "registered" members goes up to >1 hour. This creates no conflict for "registered" connecting passengers having to deplane last & discourages people from having "miracle flights".

Alternative: A "red-flag" system for passengers who intermittently request a last-minute wheelchair for personal gain...much like what happens when you want to buy a last minute one-way international ticket with cash. (or pay for a ticket to a fraud plagued country with a credit card online.) :D

PPP

I suspect there is far too little real abuse of the wheelchair loophole to require any significant changes. I rarely see more than 1 wheelchair person on a flight, and nearly all of those really truly look like they need the help.

I get annoyed at people who use a wheelchair to get to the plane and then sit in an exit row.

Either you are disabled or you're not.

I saw this happen on a flight but the FA wouldn't do anything about it.

I have the solution: Make wheelchairs "first on, last off". No exceptions.
That's how it is I thought. That's why people prefer to have a miracle cure than wait for their wheel chairs. Sometimes you see dozens of wheel chairs lined up on one side of the jetway and beyond. and no takers, as they have all been cured.

Lead flight attendant should collect the connecting boarding pass/baggage claim check/ID of anyone wishing to use a wheelchair to pre-board LAST MINUTE. Establish a "wheelchair registry" as a part of the Delta profile of anyone who regularly/predictably needs one. Legal connection time for "registered" members goes up to >1 hour. This creates no conflict for "registered" connecting passengers having to deplane last & discourages people from having "miracle flights".
Alternative: A "red-flag" system for passengers who intermittently request a last-minute wheelchair for personal gain...much like what happens when you want to buy a last minute one-way international ticket with cash. (or pay for a ticket to a fraud plagued country with a credit card online.) :D
PPP

A person using a wheel chair intermittently does not prove that they are scamming.

I suspect there is far too little real abuse of the wheelchair loophole to require any significant changes. I rarely see more than 1 wheelchair person on a flight, and nearly all of those really truly look like they need the help.

Get on a flight to some Asian destinations.

About 5 years ago, when she was about 77, my mom's knees were really bad. She had an arthroscopic surgery on one of them, but was still hobbled. So I got her a wheelchair on her transit at Heathrow, even though she imagined she could have suffered through without it. She said it was amazing. They were whisked from the plane, through back doors, quickly though transit lines - - it was fast and fantastic. I've offered her this again, but her knees have improved, and she doesn't just want to try to fake it.

The FA should be reported for this. I'm not one to "report" people, but this particular item is a safety issue. I have had this happen on SW, and even had the person try and reserve the exit row. The FA did not want to get involved but did at my insistence, both to prevent the seat saving and being in the exit row after "pre-boarding". I did not care that I had the stink-eye from the passenger.

Get on a flight to some Asian destinations.

+1^

1986 Air Carrier Access Act, airlines are required to accommodate disabled travelers — who need not show any proof of disability.
I wonder how hard the ADA lobbied for that one.

The issue is liability and lawsuit potential. No matter how scummy and low I think it is that an able-bodied person would do this, it is safer than to take the risk that there is a real, but visibly hidden, disability that requires a wheelchair, and then be the one who denies it. Airline gets sued and you lose your job.

Someone also wrote about karma. I do believe in it as well.

Finally, if you can't change the system, why not be entertained?

If you suspect "a miracle is about to happen", get some photographic/visual proof, and post it on FT for our entertainment. I would love to see it. These scammers SHOULD be called out in every way possible. You needed a chair to board, etc, but you are in an exit row, or first to stand up and attempt to deplane with your bags . . . visual evidence = busted!

And finally, to any airport worker who enables the behavior (ex. the late-running passengers who were TOLD to go get a wheelchair), shame on you too. Don't blame the rest of us if you never leave that job, or lose it at some point.

The issue is liability and lawsuit potential. No matter how scummy and low I think it is that an able-bodied person would do this, it is safer than to take the risk that there is a real, but visibly hidden, disability that requires a wheelchair, and then be the one who denies it. Airline gets sued and you lose your job.

Someone also wrote about karma. I do believe in it as well.

Finally, if you can't change the system, why not be entertained?

If you suspect "a miracle is about to happen", get some photographic/visual proof, and post it on FT for our entertainment. I would love to see it. These scammers SHOULD be called out in every way possible. You needed a chair to board, etc, but you are in an exit row, or first to stand up and attempt to deplane with your bags . . . visual evidence = busted!

And finally, to any airport worker who enables the behavior (ex. the late-running passengers who were TOLD to go get a wheelchair), shame on you too. Don't blame the rest of us if you never leave that job, or lose it at some point.

Excellent idea. Maybe, an FA should a that a miracle has just occurred. We can all clap, sing "Praise the Lord", "Helejualoueha" and dance.

That's how it is I thought. That's why people prefer to have a miracle cure than wait for their wheel chairs. Sometimes you see dozens of wheel chairs lined up on one side of the jetway and beyond. and no takers, as they have all been cured.
That's why in "my system" last minute users would be required to give some "collateral" (ID/boarding pass/luggage claim check...something honest people would have no problem surrendering) during the preboarding process. People with "in-flight miracles" would get flagged as scammers. I believe that anyone who request a wheelchair should get one. No questions asked...but in places/markets where scamming is obvious/prevalent, they should make it less convenient for fakers.



A person using a wheel chair intermittently does not prove that they are scamming.
I understand that 100%...it's just they have a higher percentage of abuse. People with true, long term issues (seen or unseen) utilize the system fairly (first on, last off).

I believe in karma too. Boarded a feeder flight in the EU with a passenger who had NO TROUBLE climbing the jet STAIRS (ran up) & deplaning using the same...but SUDDENLY needed a wheelchair & cart to go through AMS passport control & board a DL flight to the States. He was awaiting a miles/SWU upgrade but the Blue Dragons couldn't get their act together. We departed with 4 seats empty in J...he was in row 30-something.

That's why in "my system" last minute users would be required to give some "collateral" (ID/boarding pass/luggage claim check...something honest people would have no problem surrendering) during the preboarding process.

How many honest people are willing to give away their ID? We can print duplicate BPs and scan our luggage claims before boarding. And when was the last time anyone asked for the paper ones (I've lost a couple of them with my HOOU coupons)?

It can be frustrating at times as I go to MNL often and see the long line of wheelchairs. However, while some Filipinos may appear to be able-bodied and look 50-ish or 60-ish, they may actually be in their 70s or older. My Mom always orders a wheelchair as she is now 76 and while she can walk the tube to her seat, I can guarantee you, you will curse at how slow she moves. But she orders the wheelchair mainly to transfer from gate to gate as she can get tired and short of breath easily. She also does not wait in her seat on landing but walks up the tube to take the first available w/c (now they actually have your name on paper) --- as she is instructed by crew ("... if you are able to walk to the end of the tube, please do so and a wheelchair will be waiting for you there ..."). It really is no miracle for her, and again, if you were walking behind her, I wouldn't be surprised if you cursed under your breath. I agree with the karma posters --- beware what you say! I do agree with calling out the obvious scammers (disabled but seating in exit row, etc.) to preserve the integrity of the wheelchair request!!! :rolleyes:

“When [travelers] see that the line is so long, they just ask for a wheelchair,” Evelyn Danquah, an attendant for Delta Air Lines, told the Times.

This line from the original article bugged me. Yes, that could be a sign that they are a scammer. OR it could be a sign that they have a health issue that is marginal- not so severe that they always need a wheelchair, but one that will be exacerbated by a lengthy period standing in line. My DH is in that category, and we don't want to always tie up resources if he doesn't need them.

We have had a number of alerts from FlyerTalk members letting the Delta SkyMiles forum moderators know that the topic of this discussion really is broader in scope and is not necessarily specific to Delta Air Lines and the SkyMiles frequent flier loyalty program — and I would have to agree.

The new home for this discussion is now the Disability Travel forum.

Regards,

Canarsie
Co-Moderator, Delta SkyMiles forum

It can be frustrating at times as I go to MNL often and see the long line of wheelchairs. However, while some Filipinos may appear to be able-bodied and look 50-ish or 60-ish, they may actually be in their 70s or older. My Mom always orders a wheelchair as she is now 76 and while she can walk the tube to her seat, I can guarantee you, you will curse at how slow she moves. But she orders the wheelchair mainly to transfer from gate to gate as she can get tired and short of breath easily. She also does not wait in her seat on landing but walks up the tube to take the first available w/c (now they actually have your name on paper) --- as she is instructed by crew ("... if you are able to walk to the end of the tube, please do so and a wheelchair will be waiting for you there ..."). It really is no miracle for her, and again, if you were walking behind her, I wouldn't be surprised if you cursed under your breath. I agree with the karma posters --- beware what you say! I do agree with calling out the obvious scammers (disabled but seating in exit row, etc.) to preserve the integrity of the wheelchair request!!! :rolleyes:

If she's a slow walker, why not wait a few minutes to let others exit the aircraft?

I had a friend who did this many years/decades ago.

He was delivering a wheelchair to his mother.

This was at a time when his Airline was going to charge him $150-200 to check his "oversized" wheelchair in baggage.

Of course, if he was using it as an assistive device, it was free.

So he rode it the whole way there.

I wonder how hard the ADA lobbied for that one.

I don't recall the American Dental Association lobbying for that, do you? :confused:

Who is "the ADA"?

That there are abuses of provisions of ADA, is not in doubt. I cannot say what the extent of abuse is.
I also felt that there was an abuse of handicapped tags also, as between 1999 and 2008 (when I was away for most of the time from my home state), the number of handicapped tags increased manyfold. It turns out that the area is infested with "fake" hanging tags.
Some people will do everything possible for their convenience even if it means breaking the law. parking/waiting in the drop off lane at a grocery store, or an airport is another example, even blocking or parking in the handicapped spot at the airport.

The issue is liability and lawsuit potential. No matter how scummy and low I think it is that an able-bodied person would do this, it is safer than to take the risk that there is a real, but visibly hidden, disability that requires a wheelchair, and then be the one who denies it. Airline gets sued and you lose your job.


Fine, then! Get him a wheelchair, but board him last (on WN) and _insist_ (for everyone's own safety!) that he's' escorted off the plane last, in a wheelchair.

And, in WN or any airline, for the safety of EVERYONE on board, you must call out a disabled person who is in the exit row! Do *you* want to Die In A Fire?

On the subject of improper use of "Handicapped Parking Placards" - genuine handicapped persons are the greatest violators of the illegal use of these placards as they frequently lend them to able bodied friends and family members for their use even though the handicapped person does not accompany that person in the car. This action is illegal and surely dwarfs the problem of the small number of fake wheel chair users at airports. I read of a recent case of such a person who was using a borrowed placard in Washington D.C. who was complaining loudly about how her car had been towed from a handicapped parking zone because President Obama was speaking nearby - and she couldn't find her car - It was determined that she was not handicapped and had broken the law. She had borrowed the placard.
Judge one - judge all.

On the subject of improper use of "Handicapped Parking Placards" - genuine handicapped persons are the greatest violators of the illegal use of these placards as they frequently lend them to able bodied friends and family members for their use even though the handicapped person does not accompany that person in the car. This action is illegal and surely dwarfs the problem of the small number of fake wheel chair users at airports. I read of a recent case of such a person who was using a borrowed placard in Washington D.C. who was complaining loudly about how her car had been towed from a handicapped parking zone because President Obama was speaking nearby - and she couldn't find her car - It was determined that she was not handicapped and had broken the law. She had borrowed the placard.
Judge one - judge all.
It reads like you saying that because one woman broke the law with a fraudulently used permit that that justifies accusing "genuine handicapped persons" of mass fraud.

Can you offer any evidence to back up this sweeping accusation beyond a single third hand anecdote?

The Los Angeles area has seen quite a bit of abuse. The LA Times has run articles about it. Here's one: http://articles.latimes.com/2011/may/22/local/la-me-disabled-parking-20110522
"... it was one official, Vito Scattaglia, the deputy chief of investigations for the California Department of Motor Vehicles, who stated, "With the emphasis on fraudulent use ... when we go out, typically on average it's in the area of a 30 to 40 percent violation rate."

"...The reactions of drivers can be telling, investigators say. Magdalene Osherenko, a driver cited during the recent sting in Beverly Hills, became agitated and tried to grab a placard registered to her mother from the DMV investigator who had confiscated it. "I think it's not fair what you're doing," she told investigators. "You're in Beverly Hills. I'm going to take this up with the Beverly Hills Police Department."

"We're state of California," officer David Wisansky told her.

Another driver cited by DMV investigators in Beverly Hills had just emerged from a Camden Drive fitness center to her expired meter. She told officers that she had earlier dropped her mother at a doctor's office, and her mother confirmed that via cellphone. Nonetheless, an investigator confiscated the placard, saying the woman had "personally garnered a benefit" by using it to park for free while she exercised..."

The Los Angeles area has seen quite a bit of abuse. The LA Times has run articles about it. Here's one: http://articles.latimes.com/2011/may/22/local/la-me-disabled-parking-20110522
"... it was one official, Vito Scattaglia, the deputy chief of investigations for the California Department of Motor Vehicles, who stated, "With the emphasis on fraudulent use ... when we go out, typically on average it's in the area of a 30 to 40 percent violation rate."

"...The reactions of drivers can be telling, investigators say. Magdalene Osherenko, a driver cited during the recent sting in Beverly Hills, became agitated and tried to grab a placard registered to her mother from the DMV investigator who had confiscated it. "I think it's not fair what you're doing," she told investigators. "You're in Beverly Hills. I'm going to take this up with the Beverly Hills Police Department."

"We're state of California," officer David Wisansky told her.

Another driver cited by DMV investigators in Beverly Hills had just emerged from a Camden Drive fitness center to her expired meter. She told officers that she had earlier dropped her mother at a doctor's office, and her mother confirmed that via cellphone. Nonetheless, an investigator confiscated the placard, saying the woman had "personally garnered a benefit" by using it to park for free while she exercised..."

Don't judge - I had a herniated disk which caused excruciating pain. I had a script for 120 Oxycontin a month (4 per day) but I didn’t take more than ½ per day as they affected my ability to think clearly so I used cold packs for 2 hours before getting out of bed.

I found the only person who made an impact on my back was a personal trainer at a gym – more than the physical therapists. I used handicapped parking at the gym because was not able to walk far. I also saw 2 regulars at the same time slot who were in wheelchairs. They couldn’t use the second floor running track in wheelchair but they did do a lot of upper body exercise. Often I couldn’t get into my car to bend enough to get into the car and on a several of occasions I had to put the top down to get into the car. Not fun if it is raining. I swapped my 2 seater Benz for my wife’s SUV after the second soaking wet entrance.

So – seeing a handicapped parker at a gym does not mean a scammer and handicapped people go to the gym to remain physically fit. Never judge another unless you know the full story

I would have no trouble with a disk injury having a parking permit but that is not the point of the article. In the article it clearly states that the women were using someone else's permit for their own convenience.

Many pain centers and physical therapists work with or even at gyms to help patients through their recovery routine. This is because gyms have more equipment than pain centers and therapy facilities do, so there is easier access without much waiting. The patient then can safely continue the exercises on equipment he/she is familiar with.

CD Yes, mass fraud. I think your use of the words "mass fraud" perfectly describes what is happening. Do a simple Yahoo or Google search and you will find numerous threads describing the enormous extent of this problem nationwide but especially in California as mules post explained (immediately following your post).

In California, the use of a handicapped parking space isn't the only enticement for misuse. The permit allows you to park at any metered spot and not pay the meter (aka FREE). The intent, which was really great, was to make it more convenient for people who don't need a curb cut to access the sidewalks while doing errands or whatever.

Convenience + $$$ = Temptation

Fine, then! Get him a wheelchair, but board him last (on WN) and _insist_ (for everyone's own safety!) that he's' escorted off the plane last, in a wheelchair.

Do you mean board this one guy last, or everyone in a wheelchair last? I don't think that that is the best solution for everyone. Also, real wheelchair users, such as myself, get off the plane last anyways.

CD Yes, mass fraud. I think your use of the words "mass fraud" perfectly describes what is happening. Do a simple Yahoo or Google search and you will find numerous threads describing the enormous extent of this problem nationwide but especially in California as mules post explained (immediately following your post).What I continue to find offensive is your assumption that the misuse is done with the knowledge and consent of the legitimate owner of the placard. If you choose to keep repeating the accusation of fraud, it's up to you to support your statement with evidence and not up to me to hunt for it.

CD You make a very good argument.

What I continue to find offensive is your assumption that the misuse is done with the knowledge and consent of the legitimate owner of the placard. If you choose to keep repeating the accusation of fraud, it's up to you to support your statement with evidence and not up to me to hunt for it.

The fallacy in this argument is your assumption that the "legitimate owner of the placard" actually is qualified to hold a placard. I spent some of my summer helping with data collection for a study to test this assumption. The results (preliminary) are sobering.

First, some background information:

(1) In many states, 10% (or more) of drivers now hold placards. This number has skyrocketed, with increases of 200-300% over the last decade. You be the judge of how likely it is that (a) such a large portion of the population has severe mobility impairments, and (b) that the rate of mobility impairments grew at such an astounding rate over the last decade.

(2) There are no uniform criteria for placard issuance across the country. Instead, states set their own criteria, which in some cases can be very lax, and in other cases can be rather stringent. This is also true for administration and enforcement (e.g., validity, who issues, what is checked, who enforces, etc).

(3) Virtually all placards nationwide are issued solely based on a driver's application with a physician's signature. This leaves room for abuse and fraud. Be, know, or sweettalk a doctor (or in many states, PA, nurse, physical therapist, or any number of other healthcare providers) into signing your application, and DMV will issue a placard without further investigation. Many states will process applications without as much as making sure that the form was actually signed by a doctor. In my home state, Oregon, until 2010, the form required nothing but a "provider's" signature. No address, license number, etc. Only in response to massive fraud (i.e., applicants forging doctor's signatures), DMV now requires provider license number etc. However, to date this is not cross-referenced against any database. Many states are even more lax, and with great likelihood anyone reading this thread, whether disabled or not, could just walk into a DMV office tomorrow and successfully obtain a placard.

(4) There is not a lot of reliable research out there on placard abuse. A lot of the literature still focuses on yesterday's problem, namely people without placards parking in handicap spots. Today's abusers have their own, "legitimate" placards. However, some troubling data points emerge from the literature:

(a) As mentioned by another poster, most cities will grant free and unlimited meter parking to placard holders. A study from Seattle shows that 30-35% of downtown parking spots are taken up by placard holders during working hours. Do you really think all these people are disabled? A study from Portland puts this figure at 25-30%, and an observational study from LA shows that several blocks with $4/hr parking have 82% of their meter time consumed by "handicapped" parkers.

(b) A comparison of state data yields surprising results. In rural areas, where there is little benefit from free parking to be gained, there are significantly fewer placards per 100 motorists (to the tune of 30-50% less) than in urban areas. Odd, huh?

Given this background information, a researcher at a local university decided to investigate the placard phenomenon, and I helped with the data collection. If you spend a lot of time with "disability advocates", you will know that it's not en vogue to question anyone's assertion of disability. "Many disabilities are not visible" is a typical response. Yes, that's very true, but there are also many disabilities that don't impact mobility, and thus don't qualify for a placard. Specifically, in the state of Oregon, there are three criteria for a placard:

(i) A person who has severely limited mobility because of paralysis or the loss of use of some or all of the person’s legs or arms;
(ii) A person who is affected by loss of vision or substantial loss of visual acuity or visual field beyond correction; or
(iii) A person who has any other disability that prevents the person from walking without the use of an assistive device or that causes the person to be unable to walk more than 200 feet.

What we did in our study was go out and interview placard holders who were parked in handicap spots. The survey contained a dozen questions about handicap parking, including "I often have a hard time finding an open parking spot," "I see many people parked in handicap spots who don't look disabled," etc. (5-point scale from strongly disagree to strongly agree). Not surprisingly, we had great agreement with all the hard to find/too many faker questions. But what we were really interested was packaged into the "demographic" items at the end. In addition to birth year and gender, we asked if the person uses an assistive device, is unable to walk 200 feet, etc.

Clearly, everybody who has a legitimate placard should have said yes to one of these questions, correct? Guess what percentage actually stated that one of the criteria applied to them? Just under 20%!

Yes, there are limitations to the study; a mailed survey would have been more generalizable, but DMV wanted nothing to do with us. But we spoke to over 600 people who actually parked in handicap spots. (One can only assume that the number of "fakers" would have been greater if we had spoken to the free downtown parking crowd, many of whom might feel guilty when parking in handicapped spots ... although many of the very able-bodied users I interviewed didn't seem to be troubled by taking spots away from "other" disabled people). Definitely something to think about, no? (I will post a link once a report has been published).

Another component of the study is ongoing. It involves providers who sign placard applications. Thus far, we have 30 interviews completed. Do you want to guess what percentage of them actually knew the legal requirements for a placard in Oregon? Not a single one (roughly half a dozen were close, the rest was way off). They sign these applications based on their own judgment, but have no idea what they're certifying. And they often hand out placards like candy.

Now, I don't want to make any FTer feel bad. I don't know the requirements in other posters' particular states, or whether they'd qualify under Oregon's rules. However, what we found in our study is that the vast majority of placards in circulation are frivolous. This is not a matter of forging a placard, or borrowing grandma's, it's people who have a "legitimate" placard but don't qualify for it.

And the results of this massive fraud are devastating for people like me. Only 2% of parking spots (slightly less in large lots) are handicap accessible. Most malls or stores now have them taken up by fakers practically round the clock, and it's often impossible for me to get out of the car (I'm a paraplegic and need the access aisle). I end up having to return home or park way in the back of the lot, where I can occupy 1 1/2 spaces. States urgently have to do something to curb abuse, and likely also designate significantly more spots.

Since the thread is going that way... Yesterday, I was parked at Montgomery Mall in Maryland. I watched a woman park in the disabled spot. When she got out, my jaw dropped. She was in tip-top physical condition. I could tell by the tight clothes she was wearing. She could have been, or indeed may be, a model. She got out and walked in on high heels. I started wondering what hidden disability she has, when she came back, sort of running on her high heels, to get something she forgot. She then rushed back in. She was definitely using someone else's tag to park there. Maybe she can only walk 200 feet in the high heels. That must have been the reason for the disabled tag. My bad.

Shortly before the London Olympics (not paralympics) we had to meet someone at London Heathrow - most of the disabled parking spaces had been coned off to provide priority parking for the Olympians - some of the fittest people in the world!

$14/hour to push a wheelchair seems fair to me for an unskilled worker doing manual labor with the assistance of a simple machine. Likely the "reliance" on tips, as you put it, can be attributed more to the American habituation to tipping in general.

Is that what they are paid? Why in the world so many people claim that they depend on tips? Anyone who is paid minimum wage or more does not deserve a tip by default.

Is that what they are paid? Why in the world so many people claim that they depend on tips? Anyone who is paid minimum wage or more does not deserve a tip by default.

This article posted on page 1 of this thread said that they are paid between $9 and $14 an hour.

http://houston.cbslocal.com/2012/10/08/scammers-using-wheelchairs-to-skip-airport-lines-legally/

I totally agree that they should not be tipped. That is a reasonable rate of pay. My wife is a personal care attendant and does far more than the pushers do for $11.xx per hour. She should get tips before they do.

CD Yes, mass fraud. I think your use of the words "mass fraud" perfectly describes what is happening. Do a simple Yahoo or Google search and you will find numerous threads describing the enormous extent of this problem nationwide but especially in California as mules post explained (immediately following your post).

I cannot tell you the number of times people gave my mother the stinkeye for parking in the handicapped spot, using my placard. She was coming to pick me up (usually from a mani/pedi, facial, or the like), and I needed her to push my manual wheelchair out to the parking lot. Then, I needed the space to transfer from the chair to the car. People are quick to judge situations they know nothing about . . .

I do understand - that is very annoying. I should say that it is my sister-in-law who is the handicapped person and rides a wheelchair and either my wife or I often transport her. We know that experience. In one way receiving the "eye" might be a good sign because if many people do that it might deter able-bodied persons who are on no such errand as yours from filling spaces reserved for the handicapped. (Nah)

The simple solution is to require that anyone boarding with a wheel chair must also disembark with one. This first on, last off, policy might eliminate situations, especially on Florida flights, where boarding is delayed by upwards of ten chairs, often accompanied by multiple additional companions, only to see a matching number of chairs, at the destination, summoned by the carrier, remain idle, as these folks miraculously reacquire their motor skills, in flight. What is especially galling is to have paid extra, for early boarding, only to find overhead space already taken by these additional people who have boarded with the supposedly disabled person. Lest I be singled out as some heartless character, let me add that I have suffered with a degenerative movement disorder for over 10 years. I have never requested early boarding. Truly handicapped people know that the way to fight what you have, is to resist giving in, until you have no choice. I have, on numerous occasions, had to hang onto a boarding rope, to support myself, while watching a parade of these people board, some of whom will shove me aside, on their arrival, making a beeline for the exit.:)

Clearly judging others is a bigger problem than a few people scamming the wheelchair use.


I hope all fellow FTers stay healthy, and avoid any use of wheelchair.
I do not support anyone fully fit scamming by using wheel chair:td:

I've retired and no longer travel enough to get early boarding perks with elite status. Furthermore, when I travel on my own money, I almost always get a cheap fare which, at least on United, puts you in the last boarding group.

I've not done this yet, and I know my fellow FTers would be horrified at the idea, but more than once I've been tempted to take a cane (left over from an Achilles tendon injury several years ago) along with me and and walk on board with the "need extra time to get up the jetway" passengers. It worked when I needed the cane so I suppose it will work today.

I've retired and no longer travel enough to get early boarding perks with elite status. Furthermore, when I travel on my own money, I almost always get a cheap fare which, at least on United, puts you in the last boarding group.

I've not done this yet, and I know my fellow FTers would be horrified at the idea, but more than once I've been tempted to take a cane (left over from an Achilles tendon injury several years ago) along with me and and walk on board with the "need extra time to get up the jetway" passengers. It worked when I needed the cane so I suppose it will work today.
My wife is disabled and she has photo ID to prove it. Our disability parking scheme requires photo ID on the card along with holographic security patch. It is only granted when severe disablement is assessed.

She will never submit to using a wheelchair in an airport, yet I have seen her in tears after long lines at immigration. She has a spinal injury which causes her back to go into spasm if standing; slow walking causes little problem.
She does sometimes use a cane - but that almost guarantees secondary screening at security and further indignity in addition to the frequent "eye" she receives as some people seem to think any disability aid is automatically a scam.

Undoubtedly some may use assistance as a scam - but by no means all. In particular there are many who are impossible to assess by a casual glance from a fellow passenger. Ask any healthcare professional. Ask how difficult and complex the procedure is for proper assessment of the "severe disablement" that is required in some countries for a disabled parking badge.

Just by looking at individual cases, it's impossible to know whether they are really disabled or they are scamming. I would not bet on a person in a wheel chair not being disabled. Special provisions for disabled people are there for a reason. To help them cope with situations they would not be able to manage without assistance. It's not too much to as a civilised society to accommodate needs of the disabled.
It would be naive to say that the system is not abused. Just as you when you toss a coin, you have no way of predicting whether it would be a heads or tails, but statistically, you know that you wil get heads or tails about 50% of the time. The same principle applies.

I know people who have used wheel chair assistance solely for the purpose of expediting their security and/or boarding procedures. We are all humans and are more or less likely to give into the temptation of using rules to our benefit. Given the state of our security procedures and the competition for overhead space, it's not surprising that some people would give in to the temptation using the logic that they are not hurting anyone by doing it. The same logic is used by people with pree-teens or even teenagers who jump to board early when pre-oarding for families with children is called.
In absence of any reliable data, it's hard to say which is a bigger problem, judging or scamming? People make assessment, judgement, if you want to call it so, based on their situation.
If you are being delayed, and there is an unusually large number of wheel chair users, you are likely to question some in your mind. ON the other hand, disabled people are likely to question the wisdom of those who judge an individual based on appearance.
I have seen some astonishing hostility when a wheel chair is followed by members of the family, "It's ok for a disabled person, but why does the entire family get to skip the line?". Well, do you expect the disabled person to be by themselves all alone? Then there is also the issue of resources. The sooner the wheel chair or the staff pushing it are freed, the sooner they can go on to help other people. I had to be firm with a passenger who was in the queue before me when an old lady in a wheel chair was accompanied by her husband. This passenger complained about "why is he being allowed to go ahead of us? He is not disabled".
I told him this how it is. The family gets to go with the disabled person. "They come to your country to visit and spend their money. This is how you want to treat them? "Neither the lady, nor the husband spoke the local language.
I have also seen people getting upset, understandably so, at the sight of a family of 10 walking behind a wheel chair. Human beings are as capable of doing very nice things for their fellow being, as they are of doing petty things to get some convenience. It's hard to to say who will behave like what under which circumstances. The games people play to get an upgrade is an example. I would not venture to guess a number, but I know wheel chair scamming is a fact of life. Saying that wheel chair scamming is a problem is not pointing a finger at disabled people, but at those who are NOT.

My wife is disabled and she has photo ID to prove it. Our disability parking scheme requires photo ID on the card along with holographic security patch. It is only granted when severe disablement is assessed.

She will never submit to using a wheelchair in an airport, yet I have seen her in tears after long lines at immigration. She has a spinal injury which causes her back to go into spasm if standing; slow walking causes little problem.
She does sometimes use a cane - but that almost guarantees secondary screening at security and further indignity in addition to the frequent "eye" she receives as some people seem to think any disability aid is automatically a scam.

Undoubtedly some may use assistance as a scam - but by no means all. In particular there are many who are impossible to assess by a casual glance from a fellow passenger. Ask any healthcare professional. Ask how difficult and complex the procedure is for proper assessment of the "severe disablement" that is required in some countries for a disabled parking badge.

+1

As someone who often uses a wheelchair in airports, let me explain why the necessity of its use for some may not be so obvious. I have a debilitating back condition which has required four surgeries and an early retirement. I often use a cane to get around but find the often very long distance from security to gate to be difficult to handle even with my cane, especially at the end of a day or trip. I will often use a wheel chair in those circumstances, or when I have a connection that requires either switching concourses or covering a large distance between gates. I may not use one gating off the plane when a connection is tight and there is a transport waiting or I'm hoping for one. I may also be expecting a wheelchair at the gate. There may be a short distance between gates for my connecting flights.

Those are just a few examples off the top of my head. My main point is simply this: just because I am able to get out of my seat and walk off the plane, whether aided by my cane or not, is in no way determinative of my need for the use of a wheelchair at that or any other time. Sure, there are undeniable benefits to using a wheelchair in an airport, but I would trade those benefits in a heartbeat for the pleasure of never actually needing to use one again.

I repeat. If they board first, with a wheelchair, they have to disembark, last, with one. That would put a stop to those who use this limited resource for other purposes.

As someone who often uses a wheelchair in airports, let me explain why the necessity of its use for some may not be so obvious. I have a debilitating back condition which has required four surgeries and an early retirement. I often use a cane to get around but find the often very long distance from security to gate to be difficult to handle even with my cane, especially at the end of a day or trip. I will often use a wheel chair in those circumstances, or when I have a connection that requires either switching concourses or covering a large distance between gates. I may not use one gating off the plane when a connection is tight and there is a transport waiting or I'm hoping for one. I may also be expecting a wheelchair at the gate. There may be a short distance between gates for my connecting flights.

Those are just a few examples off the top of my head. My main point is simply this: just because I am able to get out of my seat and walk off the plane, whether aided by my cane or not, is in no way determinative of my need for the use of a wheelchair at that or any other time. Sure, there are undeniable benefits to using a wheelchair in an airport, but I would trade those benefits in a heartbeat for the pleasure of never actually needing to use one again.

That point has been accepted by all, I think. It has already been stated that it's impossible to make a judgement about individual cases anymore than it is to periodic what will show up when throw a die. We can only make statistical statements. No one has questioned your right or anyone's right to use a wheel chair if they need it. The point is there are some people who exploit the system. That's undeniable. Accepting that does not reflect on your credentials.

I had a work colleague who had a foam cervical collar in his briefcase. When the announcement "...and those needing a little more time to board." was made, he put it on and walked, slowly, aboard. Strangely, he didn't need it during the flight or deplaning. I called him on it and he said he needed the neck brace due to a back injury - the pain got better as the flight progressed so he didn't need it when he got off!

I cannot tell you the number of times people gave my mother the stinkeye for parking in the handicapped spot, using my placard. She was coming to pick me up (usually from a mani/pedi, facial, or the like), and I needed her to push my manual wheelchair out to the parking lot. Then, I needed the space to transfer from the chair to the car. People are quick to judge situations they know nothing about . . .You said it, sister. Too many people who haven't a clue about you (collective you, not personal) feel free to jump right in, make a medical judgement and offer their unsolicited opinion. Others assume that the icon of a wheelchair on the sign and placard mean you must be in a wheelchair to park there.

My medical problems are none of their business. Two doctors and the state in which I reside have determined I qualify for a placard, so MYOB.

I have often mused that if I have connecting flights at FRA, AMS or CDG (which happens often) I ought to request Special Assistance (i.e. a wheelchair), so that I won't have to run like an idiot in high heels and with a heavy laptop swinging for a mile or more.

I've never done it yet but hey is it not tempting when I finally make it to my connecting flight and my back is killing me...

I have often mused that if I have connecting flights at FRA, AMS or CDG (which happens often) I ought to request Special Assistance (i.e. a wheelchair), so that I won't have to run like an idiot in high heels and with a heavy laptop swinging for a mile or more.

I've never done it yet but hey is it not tempting when I finally make it to my connecting flight and my back is killing me...
You said it, not me.

I have often mused that if I have connecting flights at FRA, AMS or CDG (which happens often) I ought to request Special Assistance (i.e. a wheelchair), so that I won't have to run like an idiot in high heels and with a heavy laptop swinging for a mile or more.

I've never done it yet but hey is it not tempting when I finally make it to my connecting flight and my back is killing me...

Why not wear more appropriate footwear for travel? It sounds like fixing this problem would easily be within one's control.