US Airways Dividend Miles - Business flights to Europe USairways pricing

I just don't get it? Is it being too clever on too stupid on their part.
I checked several flights to summer attractive destinations in Europe in Envoy, flying any metal. And this what I found out looking for July round trips:

A. Flights from EWR via PHL are cheaper than from PHL on exactly the same US metal by about $300 less. And the airplanes in Envoy are less than 1/3 - 1/2 sold.
B. Tickets sold by US flying on LH or UA are 100% more expensive than from LH or UA direct and vice versa.
C. Award tickets in Business class on US metal from UA are 50,000; and for the exactly same nearly empty Envoy flights from US are 175,000.

Clever or stupid? Me or them?
:confused:

Clever or stupid? Me or them?
:confused:

Likely a combination. ;)

US is not part of the UA/LH joint venture so their pricing is going to be different on the same flights (if only pertinent for corporate accounts with a fixed percentage discount off the full-fare US flights).

And the issue with EWR/PHL European departures is nothing new. Pricing PHL-LHR will almost always be significantly more than say, LGA-PHL-LHR return. Nothing new there and it all has to do with PHL's O&D traffic and (again) corporate sales.

And you might be surprised at how many people with miles simply go online and actually book a 250k roundtrip in Envoy. They know not what they do but do it anyway because it fits the dates they need.

A. Flights from EWR via PHL are cheaper than from PHL on exactly the same US metal by about $300 less. And the airplanes in Envoy are less than 1/3 - 1/2 sold.
B. Tickets sold by US flying on LH or UA are 100% more expensive than from LH or UA direct and vice versa.
C. Award tickets in Business class on US metal from UA are 50,000; and for the exactly same nearly empty Envoy flights from US are 175,000.

A. The NYC market (which includes EWR) tends to have lower fares as there's a lot more competition on flights to Europe, including many non-stop flight. US has to at least match those fares to compete. From PHL, there's a lot less competition, and US operates most of the non-stops. Many business travelers would pay $300 to avoid a connection or a drive from PHL to EWR.

B. Heavily discounted business fares may be specials offered by a particular airline, and not offered through all channels or on code shares based on policies set by the airline that's flying the flight. Thus, US may just not have the option of offering the UA and LH flights at the same prices.

C. I don't pretend to entirely understand the black magic behind the mile "cost" of award tickets, but it's usually a combination of factors including inter-airline agreements and different availability buckets. In your case, US may have made one or two tickets available for their *A partners on that flight, which UA offers at their standard award rate (I don't think UA has tiered rates for partner awards). At the same time, US has a set mile cost for their own customers for that day at a particular tier, so that's what US customers would have to spend to get the ticket with US miles. While that does seem a bit unfair, the US customers have some advantage as they typically have access to more seat availability at that rate than UA customers would have on US flights.

C. I don't pretend to entirely understand the black magic behind the mile "cost" of award tickets, but it's usually a combination of factors including inter-airline agreements and different availability buckets. In your case, US may have made one or two tickets available for their *A partners on that flight, which UA offers at their standard award rate (I don't think UA has tiered rates for partner awards). At the same time, US has a set mile cost for their own customers for that day at a particular tier, so that's what US customers would have to spend to get the ticket with US miles. While that does seem a bit unfair, the US customers have some advantage as they typically have access to more seat availability at that rate than UA customers would have on US flights.

Also, US would get paid from the *A carrier while the award ticket with US miles would pretty much be a freebie. US is more willing to get paid for a seat that it will likely sell somehow than give it away free with their miles.

US just opened a bunch of award inventory for South America in Y, but they're still very stingy with Envoy.

As far as codeshares, I noticed that both UA and US were ridiculously pricing TPACs in C on OZ, AC, and NH. To see that they're doing that for TATL flights doesn't surprise me. As geo said, UA does have some leverage in the TATL market due to the JV with LH and others that US doesn't have.

Regardless of if you're in the clever camp or the stupid one - My statistically insignificant 3 data points say that on my last two trips across the pond, and my upcoming one, US was not competitive on price. I'm a half hour closer to EWR than PHL - but if US was at least close, the extra PQMs would come in handy at year end.

But when we're talking much higher fares, I'm going elsewhere

I am a drop closer to EWR than PHL. Domestiv flightd US is almost invariably better. To Europe it has always been a better deal to take CO out of EWR (no loss of PQM in that).

Generally, connecting flights will be cheaper than nonstops. So LGA/EWR-PHL-Europe on US should be cheaper than PHL-Europe. And codeshares on other airlines? Often more expensive than buying the ticket from the operating carrier. At AA, we frequently see that AA codeshares on CX to HKG or QF to SYD/MEL/BNE are more costly than CX or QF tickets.

I just don't get it? Is it being too clever on too stupid on their part.
I checked several flights to summer attractive destinations in Europe in Envoy, flying any metal. And this what I found out looking for July round trips:

A. Flights from EWR via PHL are cheaper than from PHL on exactly the same US metal by about $300 less. And the airplanes in Envoy are less than 1/3 - 1/2 sold.
B. Tickets sold by US flying on LH or UA are 100% more expensive than from LH or UA direct and vice versa.
C. Award tickets in Business class on US metal from UA are 50,000; and for the exactly same nearly empty Envoy flights from US are 175,000.

Clever or stupid? Me or them?
:confused:

These discrepancies may be due to US Airways' pricing and revenue management analysts not being aware of the problem or simply not having enough time to notice. US Airways likes to keep a lean workforce and each analyst is responsible for thousands of flights.

These discrepancies may be due to US Airways' pricing and revenue management analysts not being aware of the problem or simply not having enough time to notice. US Airways likes to keep a lean workforce and each analyst is responsible for thousands of flights.


I'll disagree. You can say a lot of things about US but their revenue management is some of the best in the business.

Generally, connecting flights will be cheaper than nonstops. So LGA/EWR-PHL-Europe on US should be cheaper than PHL-Europe. And codeshares on other airlines? Often more expensive than buying the ticket from the operating carrier. At AA, we frequently see that AA codeshares on CX to HKG or QF to SYD/MEL/BNE are more costly than CX or QF tickets.

Yep. Just a data point on that.

BWI-SFO-ICN in C, UA F on domestic legs:

SQ: 5k if ticketed with mixed UA/SQ numbers
OZ: 5k if ticketed with mixed UA/OZ numbers

SQ didn't codeshare with UA on that route, that I saw. TA I had looking put it up around 9k.

US/UA Codeshare with OZ:
UA: 8800
US: 10500

I have a hard time believing UA or US really provided that much value added ... :rolleyes:

Those fares are not for the typical online buyer but rather for corporate accounts. Us will be happy to have a corporate buyer use their 50% discount on US transpacific code shares. Note that UA and SQ do NOT code share anywhere across the Pacific (no JV and they compete head to head for business) while SQ and US do codeshare.

I'll disagree. You can say a lot of things about US but their revenue management is some of the best in the business.

Not really. Do a simple search on linkedin. Most US Airways' revenue management and pricing analysts are hired right after college and certainly not from first-tier universities. Further, US Airways is constantly hiring new analysts, which is a sign that the RM department has high levels of employee turnover.

Sometimes domestic coach has the same problem.

BOS-PHL is a prime example: after WN pulled out US is the only show in town (unless we're counting Streamline's BED-TTN service). When I add on my short turboprop hop from BGM the price drops significantly.

I flew to FRA this past week envoy and went to LH arrival lounge. An associate traveling with me who could not get into full envoy was not allowed. Attendant showed me list and US Air only ailine thatr did not allow 1 guest.

I have questioned this many times over the years and just stopped doing so. My most common route is to Singapore I have over the years looked at buying the ticket on the US site instead of SQ. This was before I was crediting miles to SQ, I was taking US miles. But, every time I priced a ticket is was at least 1/5X than price on SQ, usually 2x sometimes more.
I contacted US to find out why such a large pricing difference on a few occasions, never did hear back. Here I would have given US some additional revenue,if the fares were close, but instead they got none. For 2 years I was not making the trip often enough to qualify for PPS on SQ so I took US miles. This got me to CP level after 4 trips, nice for me not so much for US.
In summary this does not surprise me.