I've been trying my best to maximize my spending by getting the most points I can, on purchases I make. I've looked at my spending habits and find one area I just can't seem to get any extra points.
I've checked the list over at http://www.dansdeals.com/archives/18605 for categories (very helpful), and online in general. The one category I'm having problems with is I like to go to club events and festivals to see DJs. Now these are showing up as the following most of the time:
Chase: Department Stores; Clothing, Shoes, Catalog Retailers, Jewelry Stores, and Luggage Stores
Amex: Merchandise & Supplies - General Retail
Is my best bet to stick with sapphire pref and get the 1.07 points from UR? Is there some other chase product that will give me better points? I've converted over to UR points these days and been happy. Or possibly pure cash back? I prefer points but if the cash back is better % I'll take it. I spend a decent amount of money in this category and sometimes buy for friends as well.
So this is an area I'm looking to make sure I'm getting bang for my buck. Any creative ideas?
mia
Jun 19, 12, 9:42 am
To be sure I understand correctly, you buy event tickets and the transactions are classified as Department Stores or similar? Where do you buy the tickets?
beltway
Jun 19, 12, 10:01 am
I'd put this sort of general spend on the Starwood Amex. If you transfer to miles programs in 20K units, that's worth 25K miles (or 1.25 mi/pt) for almost everything except UA. Also, US has run occasional promotions in recent years that give an extra bonus, often producing 38.75K miles (or more) per 20K Starwood. And US miles are redeemable for travel on any *A partner, which puts them close to UA miles in value.
Of course, being able to get close to 2 miles/dollar in a Star Alliance program may not last forever, now that US & AA are exploring a merger. Then again, some folks consider SPG points too valuable to use for anything but hotels. (Lucky recently assigned them a ballpark value of 2.2c each (http://boardingarea.com/blogs/onemileatatime/2012/06/11/my-updated-analysis-on-what-a-milepoint-is-worth-hotel-points/).)
YM(heh)MV.
Altoid
Jun 19, 12, 10:03 am
To be sure I understand correctly, you buy event tickets and the transactions are classified as Department Stores or similar? Where do you buy the tickets?
The main website is http://fla.vor.us/groovetickets that I mostly buy from that are being categorized that way. I have no idea why. I know the merchant picks but it's a weird place to be. This is where I spend the majority. And would like the most help.
Now that I'm looking even more closely The other website is http://www.wantickets.com/
Which now that I look at it shows up as:
Entertainment and Recreation: Includes: Bookstores, Newsstands, Music and Record Stores, Movie Theatres, Movie Rental Stores, Performing Arts Theaters, Amusement Parks, Ticket Agencies, Aquariums, Motor Sports, Sports, and Gaming and Hobby Stores
I spend less money on this website but help on this category maximization would be great too.
mia
Jun 19, 12, 10:34 am
Where are you looking up these classifications? In this list an individual merchant would be listed as one of the specific types listed, not in the broad "Entertainment and Recreation" category.:
Entertainment and Recreation: Includes: Bookstores, Newsstands, Music and Record Stores, Movie Theatres, Movie Rental Stores, Performing Arts Theaters, Amusement Parks, Ticket Agencies, Aquariums, Motor Sports, Sports, and Gaming and Hobby Stores
For example, Citi Forward award 5X points for some, but not all, of those merchant types. You would need to know the exact classification of the site to know if it would qualify:
Unless you are participating in a promotional offer, you will earn one ThankYou Point for every dollar you spend on purchases (no other transactions qualify to earn ThankYou Points). Promotional offers may allow you to earn more than one ThankYou Point for every dollar you spend on purchases at (1) bookstores, (2) record stores, (3) restaurants, including fast food restaurants, (4) motion picture theaters and (5) video entertainment retail stores ("qualifying merchants"). Bookstores are defined as stand-alone merchants that primarily sell, for consumer use, books (including textbooks), magazines, maps and calendars. Record stores are defined as stand-alone merchants that primarily sell, for consumer use, records, compact discs (CDs), music and video laser discs, and blank audio and videotapes. Restaurants, including fast food restaurants, are defined as stand-alone merchants that primarily prepare food and drinks for immediate consumption by consumers, either on the merchant's premises or packaged for carryout. Motion picture theaters are defined as standalone merchants that operate movie theatres and sell tickets as well as refreshments. Video entertainment rental stores are defined as stand-alone merchants that primarily rent videotapes, laser discs, DVDs and video games for consumer use at home.
beltway
Jun 19, 12, 10:38 am
Where are you looking up these classifications?
He's quoting the broad categories Chase Blueprint uses, which (as you rightly note) aren't all that helpful in determining how a given merchant is specifically classified.
Altoid
Jun 19, 12, 10:42 am
Where are you looking up these classifications? In this list an individual merchant would be listed as one of the specific types listed, not in the broad "Entertainment and Recreation" category.:
For example, Citi Forward award 5X points for some, but not all, of those merchant types. You would need to know the exact classification of the site to know if it would qualify:
The ones from groove tickets I'm using Chase blueprint for the classification of Department Stores; Clothing, Shoes, Catalog Retailers, Jewelry Stores, and Luggage Stores
I use to use my amex more and dug up some of my old charges, it was classified under Merchandise & Supplies - General Retail
Blueprint from chase showed for wanticket: Entertainment and Recreation: Includes: Bookstores, Newsstands, Music and Record Stores, Movie Theatres, Movie Rental Stores, Performing Arts Theaters, Amusement Parks, Ticket Agencies, Aquariums, Motor Sports, Sports, and Gaming and Hobby Stores
Not sure if the citi forward would hit either of these. Possibly.
Altoid
Jun 19, 12, 10:44 am
I'd put this sort of general spend on the Starwood Amex. If you transfer to miles programs in 20K units, that's worth 25K miles (or 1.25 mi/pt) for almost everything except UA. Also, US has run occasional promotions in recent years that give an extra bonus, often producing 38.75K miles (or more) per 20K Starwood. And US miles are redeemable for travel on any *A partner, which puts them close to UA miles in value.
Of course, being able to get close to 2 miles/dollar in a Star Alliance program may not last forever, now that US & AA are exploring a merger. Then again, some folks consider SPG points too valuable to use for anything but hotels. (Lucky recently assigned them a ballpark value of 2.2c each (http://boardingarea.com/blogs/onemileatatime/2012/06/11/my-updated-analysis-on-what-a-milepoint-is-worth-hotel-points/).)
YM(heh)MV.
This is something I'll also have to look into I don't know much about the SPG amex. It's a good idea that I may try. But I am open to other suggestions as well for these spends.
He's quoting the broad categories Chase Blueprint uses, which (as you rightly note) aren't all that helpful in determining how a given merchant is specifically classified.
This is correct, and the only way I really know how to find how these are being categorized and I am mostly using my sapphire pref and I use to use an amex gold for these so those are the only data points I can gather to ask for help.
beltway
Jun 19, 12, 10:57 am
This is correct, and the only way I really know how to find how these are being categorized and I am mostly using my sapphire pref and I use to use an amex gold for these so those are the only data points I can gather to ask for help.
You can always call Chase, Citi, or Amex and ask them, for past transactions, how the merchant is categorized. (These things often make no sense at all. My local wine/liquor store is a grocery to Amex, but not to Chase.)
Altoid
Jun 19, 12, 11:11 am
You can always call Chase, Citi, or Amex and ask them, for past transactions, how the merchant is categorized. (These things often make no sense at all. My local wine/liquor store is a grocery to Amex, but not to Chase.)
The thing is even with these broad categories I still can't find any cards that would really help max the categories. I could call in and get an exact classification but I don't see anything even close. At least through Chase/amex.
The others I don't have cards from and would be willing if it helped, but I can't call in for those without applying and testing.
MDtR-Chicago
Jun 19, 12, 5:22 pm
Might be good to use a 2% cashback card (like Fidelity Amex) if you can't earn better using other points/miles.
Then you don't even have to worry about the classification.
Altoid
Jun 21, 12, 1:47 pm
Might be good to use a 2% cashback card (like Fidelity Amex) if you can't earn better using other points/miles.
Then you don't even have to worry about the classification.
Not a bad idea either. I value my UR points at around 1.5 these days so I guess 2% is a gain but how easy it it to transfer out of the fidelity card? It says "Every time you use your Card, 2% of the purchase can be deposited into the account of your choice" Can I send it right to my bank account or to my account with them and then right to my bank account? Can't seem to find an answer online.
beltway
Jun 21, 12, 2:09 pm
I value my UR points at around 1.5 these days
With all due respect, that's a borderline irrational undervaluation:
UR points are worth, at a minimum, whatever value one assigns to UA miles. (Lucky recently valued those at 1.8c each (http://boardingarea.com/blogs/onemileatatime/2012/05/28/my-updated-analysis-on-what-a-milepoint-is-worth-airline-miles/).)
UR points give flexibility, i.e., can be transfered to numerous different programs. That allows both a) "topping up" to a desired level for an award and b) making a token transfer to reset an expiration clock.
Transfers are instantaneous.
Transfers can be made to anyone's FF account, not just the UR account owner's. (This enables, among other things, barter for upgrade certs etc.)
Lucky values them at 1.9c (http://boardingarea.com/blogs/onemileatatime/2012/05/25/my-updated-analysis-on-what-a-milepoint-is-worth-credit-card-points/), which I think is still lowballing.
MDtR-Chicago
Jun 21, 12, 2:11 pm
Not a bad idea either. I value my UR points at around 1.5 these days so I guess 2% is a gain but how easy it it to transfer out of the fidelity card? It says "Every time you use your Card, 2% of the purchase can be deposited into the account of your choice" Can I send it right to my bank account or to my account with them and then right to my bank account? Can't seem to find an answer online.
I really thought there was a thread about this but couldn't find it. I don't use Fidelity as I still have a grandfathered 2% card elsewhere.
However, my understanding is any Fidelity account that can take an ACH deposit will work. So I think a lot of folks use a Fidelity Cash Management account, which has no fees and allows transfers to external banks.
Altoid
Jun 21, 12, 2:30 pm
With all due respect, that's a borderline irrational undervaluation:
UR points are worth, at a minimum, whatever value one assigns to UA miles. (Lucky recently valued those at 1.8c each (http://boardingarea.com/blogs/onemileatatime/2012/05/28/my-updated-analysis-on-what-a-milepoint-is-worth-airline-miles/).)
UR points give flexibility, i.e., can be transfered to numerous different programs. That allows both a) "topping up" to a desired level for an award and b) making a token transfer to reset an expiration clock.
Transfers are instantaneous.
Transfers can be made to anyone's FF account, not just the UR account owner's. (This enables, among other things, barter for upgrade certs etc.)
Lucky values them at 1.9c (http://boardingarea.com/blogs/onemileatatime/2012/05/25/my-updated-analysis-on-what-a-milepoint-is-worth-credit-card-points/), which I think is still lowballing.
You're absolutely right, I mis-worded it. My minimum for usage is 1.5.
As much as I know they can be worth much more when applied right, for now I would rather fly coach and get more trips. And my trips are mostly short hops with 1-2 transcontinental flights a year and maybe one international a year. In the past I've looked and maybe I'm wrong but that's the number I come up with. Obviously I'd prefer more value, as you can see I'm trying to max what I spend to get more points.
I really thought there was a thread about this but couldn't find it. I don't use Fidelity as I still have a grandfathered 2% card elsewhere.
However, my understanding is any Fidelity account that can take an ACH deposit will work. So I think a lot of folks use a Fidelity Cash Management account, which has no fees and allows transfers to external banks.
Interesting, it does say I need 5000 points which would be $2500 which maybe a bit if I only put this type of spend on it. I'll keep it in mind but sapphire pref still seems best option. Thanks though, an option I hadn't thought to use.
MDtR-Chicago
Jun 21, 12, 2:50 pm
As much as I know they can be worth much more when applied right, for now I would rather fly coach and get more trips. And my trips are mostly short hops with 1-2 transcontinental flights a year and maybe one international a year. In the past I've looked and maybe I'm wrong but that's the number I come up with. Obviously I'd prefer more value, as you can see I'm trying to max what I spend to get more points.
My travel patterns are similar to yours. I consistently set a threshold of 1.5 cpm myself. Occasionally I can do better but that number helps me to avoid overpaying for the miles.
You might want to consider diversifying. Traditional programs are great for the long flights. But there are other programs that do much better for short. As an example, Avios costs as low as 9000 miles for the shortest roundtrips (SFO-LAX-SFO, for example). Also, each Southwest point is worth roughly 1.7 cents in cash value toward advance purchase fares. So there are frequently great redemption values on cheap flights.
To put it in perspective, on the shortest/cheapest flights, 50k miles or points in each program could be commonly used as
2.5 roundtrips on UA
8 roundtrips on Southwest
11 roundtrips on Avios
In general, they are not equally easy to acquire, although there are frequent 50k+ credit card signup offers in each program.
Altoid
Jun 21, 12, 3:22 pm
My travel patterns are similar to yours. I consistently set a threshold of 1.5 cpm myself. Occasionally I can do better but that number helps me to avoid overpaying for the miles.
You might want to consider diversifying. Traditional programs are great for the long flights. But there are other programs that do much better for short. As an example, Avios costs as low as 9000 miles for the shortest roundtrips (SFO-LAX-SFO, for example). Also, each Southwest point is worth roughly 1.7 cents in cash value toward advance purchase fares. So there are frequently great redemption values on cheap flights.
To put it in perspective, on the shortest/cheapest flights, 50k miles or points in each program could be commonly used as
2.5 roundtrips on UA
8 roundtrips on Southwest
11 roundtrips on Avios
In general, they are not equally easy to acquire, although there are frequent 50k+ credit card signup offers in each program.
Yeah I agree, UR points can go into any of those three which is why so far this spending has stayed there. If there was something more valuable I would like to capitalize on it, but I guess this is to unique of a spend to get any additional bonus.
I'm still young so my spending power is not very high, but I'm trying to make up for it by maxing my spends return.
I may do more applications later but I've mostly just applied for cards I want to add. I've added both Sapphire pref, freedom both in the last ~9 months, and extremely happy with the two cards, got great bonuses and earning valuable points fast.
Vip4me
Jun 21, 12, 7:05 pm
For Clubs/Restaurants as you spoke of in the first post I use TWO Discover cards to reach a max of $1500 each month (this quarter but ends) Next month will be Chase Freedom at 5% Restaurants which includes clubs and bars dj events.
Altoid
Jun 21, 12, 8:18 pm
For Clubs/Restaurants as you spoke of in the first post I use TWO Discover cards to reach a max of $1500 each month (this quarter but ends) Next month will be Chase Freedom at 5% Restaurants which includes clubs and bars dj events.
That's a good point one or two clubs I do go to hit restaurant category. I use my sapphire pref for 2x points. But, I didn't even think about using freedom. That will for sure help.
But the other event's hit those weird/other categories and I do spend a lot of money for myself and friends there that would be great to capitalize. That's really where I was looking for ideas, but thanks for reminding me of the freedom! Then again I'm going to max that category for $1500, pretty fast even without adding clubs.
bluto
Jun 22, 12, 12:02 am
Does it fit in one of the 5% categories of this US Bank card?
It's possible it might hit the department store category because of it shows up that way for chase. Is there any way to find out without apply for a card and making a purchase?
Also, I think the categories rotate from what I read before about this card? Or did I get it confused with another product. If that's true I may have to keep an eye out and see if event tickets or something similar pops up as well.
Can I get clarification from chase as to why it shows up the department stores? I guess I can send a secure message? Either way it should be more like event tickets or entertainment or recreation. Can't seem to find cards that reward entertainment/recreation/event tickets.
mia
Jun 22, 12, 9:08 am
... it shows up that way for chase.
That's not the way I understand it. The ticket purchases are showing up in a broad category, created by Chase for its own purposes, which also includes the merchant type "Department Stores". I think you need to focus on the actual, very specific, merchant classifications, and ignore Chase's broad categories.
Merchant classifications are assigned by the acquirer, not by the merchant and not by the card issuer. Generally they will be the same for MasterCard and VISA, but American Express classifications may be different.
Altoid
Jun 22, 12, 3:14 pm
That's not the way I understand it. The ticket purchases are showing up in a broad category, created by Chase for its own purposes, which also includes the merchant type "Department Stores". I think you need to focus on the actual, very specific, merchant classifications, and ignore Chase's broad categories.
Merchant classifications are assigned by the acquirer, not by the merchant and not by the card issuer. Generally they will be the same for MasterCard and VISA, but American Express classifications may be different.
Oh, ok. I understand that now. Do I contact chase to ask the exact classification it falls into? Do I contact groovetickets? Then from there see if anything fits that from another company? I'm thinking there may not be very much hope this will be a bonus anywhere, at least currently.
mia
Jun 22, 12, 3:32 pm
I think this tool will allow you to find the VISA merchant classification, but you will need to know the location of the business and (perhaps) their real name which might be different than their trade name:
The tool is really designed to the opposite (find a particular type of merchant), but I suspect you can play with it for this purpose.
Altoid
Jun 25, 12, 11:21 am
I think this tool will allow you to find the VISA merchant classification, but you will need to know the location of the business and (perhaps) their real name which might be different than their trade name:
The tool is really designed to the opposite (find a particular type of merchant), but I suspect you can play with it for this purpose.
I was able to find groovetickets the main one I'm looking for. "GENERAL MERCHANDISE -5999" Not sure where to go from here though, I don't know of any card bonuses that would help maximize it. I did learn some new stuff though. It makes sense for the categories it's showing up in, though.
mia
Jun 25, 12, 11:42 am
..."GENERAL MERCHANDISE -5999"
I daresay you will not find a card with a bonus for this category, you will need to focus on card which award more than point/mile for all spending or which have an annual threshold bonus based on total spending.
Happy
Jun 25, 12, 6:38 pm
I think this tool will allow you to find the VISA merchant classification, but you will need to know the location of the business and (perhaps) their real name which might be different than their trade name:
The tool is really designed to the opposite (find a particular type of merchant), but I suspect you can play with it for this purpose.
Thanks mia for posting that.
It looks like I am missing the 5% bonus on grocery store from the Freedom card, on a supermarket in our area, despite it is listed on the Visa site as GROCERY STORES/SUPERMARKETS/BAKERIES -5411 - so I am going to send Chase a SM on the missing bonus. Since it is a few hundreds pts missing, I think it is worth the effort to follow up - give Chase the specific charges / dates and ask it to investigate.