Thai Airways Royal Orchid Plus - LCCs and domestic flights move to DMK?

All?

Well, read for yourself:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/563782-low-cost-airlines-and-domestic-flights-to-move-to-don-mueang-airport/

:confused:

All?

Well, read for yourself:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/563782-low-cost-airlines-and-domestic-flights-to-move-to-don-mueang-airport/

:confused:

It means all LCC. THAI, Thai smile and Bangkok airways are still operating in BKK (suvarnabhumi)

It means all LCC. THAI, Thai smile and Bangkok airways are still operating in BKK (suvarnabhumi)

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/298742/don-mueang-plan-approved

Looks like the return to the pre-flood operations.

its a PROJECT which has been discussed for weeks now and is heavily opposed by most major LCC's.
I bet it wont happen soon..............

its a PROJECT which has been discussed for weeks now and is heavily opposed by most major LCC's.
I bet it wont happen soon..............

It' s reported that the discussion between Thai air asia and AOT finished. They will have press release next week.

It' s reported that the discussion between Thai air asia and AOT finished. They will have press release next week.

see below todays article in BKK Post:

"Airlines get big discounts for move to Don Mueang
Bangkok's dual-airport policy 'now concluded'

The Airports of Thailand Plc board has approved massive discounts on airport fees in a move to attract airlines to Don Mueang airport.
AoT chairman ACM Sumet Photimanee yesterday said the discounts, backed yesterday, would be huge in the first two months and become gradually smaller over three years.
From Aug 1 to Sept 30, when runways at the six-year-old Suvarnabhumi airport will be repaired, 95% discounts will be available for take-off, landing and hangar fees at Don Mueang.
AoT will work out the exact discounts for area rents and fees on passenger boarding bridges, check-in counters, indoor services and flight announcements within next week.
Discounts will be 30% from Oct 1, 2012, to Sept 30, 2013; 20% from Oct 1, 2013, to Sept 30, 2014; and 10% from Oct 1, 2014, to Sept 30, 2015.
ACM Sumet said the cabinet resolved on Tuesday that Suvarnabhumi airport will be the hub airport for full-service and connecting flights, while Don Mueang will serve low-cost carriers and point-to-point domestic and international flights. However, the relocation of airlines from Suvarnabhumi to Don Mueang must be voluntary.
The AoT chairman said Don Mueang could handle 36.5 million passengers annually.
Transport Minister Jarupong Ruangsuwan said 14 commercial and chartered airlines had agreed to move to Don Mueang. He had asked the cabinet to adopt the resolution to ensure that the use of Don Mueang would be permanent.
"Today it has been clearly concluded that the single-airport policy has changed to a dual-airport one," Mr Jarupong said.
He said the relocation incentives target low-cost carriers like Thai AirAsia which operate more than 100 flights per day. Their relocation will greatly relieve congestion at Suvarnabhumi, where an expansion project will take five years and 10 months to complete.
Suvarnabhumi is designed to handle 45 million passengers yearly but its volume has already reached 47 million.
Mr Jarupong said Don Mueang would be informally opened for relocated airlines in August and officially start full-scale services in October.
AoT president Anirut Thanomkulbutra said if all 14 airlines move to Don Mueang, the airport would serve 14 million passengers yearly. This figure would include 3 million passengers of Nok Air, which has been the sole scheduled carrier operating at Don Mueang since the airport resumed operations in March after being shut down in October last year by the disastrous floods.
The cabinet decision has several repercussions for the old airport apart from winning back its international status, according to AoT officials.
First, it provides a proper legal framework for AoT to expedite negotiations with the 14 scheduled carriers for the terms to shift their bases to Don Mueang.
Secondly, it is turning Don Mueang, which has been used largely for no-frills carriers for point-to-point domestic routes, into a fully fledged airport dedicated to no-frills airlines with point-to-point international services as well.
Thirdly, because Don Mueang will now be able to serve international flights, albeit by discount airlines, Bangkok will have two international airports in terms of actual operations and status.
"With the cabinet's blessing, we can advance talks with 14 targeted low-fare carriers," an AoT official close to the issue said yesterday.
AoT is optimistic it can clinch a deal with Thai AirAsia, Thailand's largest low-cost carrier, within the next few weeks. Thai AirAsia is the main target for relocation due to the magnitude of its traffic, with a projected 8 million passengers this year.
All international airlines operating under the low-fare model, including Airberlin, Jetstar Cebu, Jin Air, Indigo and Orient Thai, will be asked to shift to Don Mueang.
If all agree, they would take away about 10 million passengers a year under the current estimate from Suvarnabhumi, where passenger traffic is expected to soar to 51 million, way beyond its annual capacity of 45 million.
AoT is injecting 77 million baht incrementally, on top of 1.64 billion baht earmarked earlier for reviving Don Mueang from last year's floods, to renovate the Pier 4 section at its Terminal 1 to accommodate additional traffic.
Renovation of Pier 4 could be finished in two months when the first batch of airlines move in."

I am really curious if Thai Air Asia is willing to move back to DMK again, as they meanwhile are profiting from many connecting passengers from other full service legacy carriers to destinations which are not frequently served by them, such as i.e. BKK-SUB, BKK-PEN etc.....

For me it's great. Having taken Nok a few times lately, I find I much prefer DMK for short haul. You get a gate and not a stupid bus to the plane or vice-versa. Others may no be quite so happy. Funny that there's no mention of a BKK - DMK shuttle program though. wj

I wouldn't lose any sleep over it guys.
This plan has been discussed for so many years, yet nothing ever happened, it may very well be just pie in the sky.
The fact is that the only deciding factor will be whether the generals who control Don Muang are happy with the amount of cash that will end up in their offshore accounts via this deal.
Forget abut the rest , like dual airport policy, ease of connections and all sorts of rational things. This is Thailand.

DMK does not have airport link. So not so ideal for LCC

DMK does not have airport link. So not so ideal for LCC

But is closer to the downtown area... would be quite weird: LCC's operate to the airport located close to the city, while legacy carriers serve the other one located further away. It is the other around in Europe:p

But is closer to the downtown area... would be quite weird: LCC's operate to the airport located close to the city, while legacy carriers serve the other one located further away. It is the other around in Europe:p

quote: "DMK does not have airport link. So not so ideal for LCC" unquote

in fact it would give the LCC's a competitive advantage versus the legacy airlines, as Don Mueang is closer to the city and less congested....
Thus they would cater even better for the local community or tourists who come (not only) to BKK (but also to HKT as FD is offering many flights to the beach resorts as well............

DMK does not have airport link. So not so ideal for LCC

And the highway access has the most expensive toll section in Bangkok.

I believe this section might be the one that resulted in the German gov attempting to confiscate the crown prince's plane in MUC last year as well. :D

And the highway access has the most expensive toll section in Bangkok.

I believe this section might be the one that resulted in the German gov attempting to confiscate the crown prince's plane in MUC last year as well. :D

True, but I got to Asoke - Suk in 25 mins. once at 4:30 and at 5:30 on a weekday (and I'm not talking AM) ! Well worth the expense. wj

I wouldn't lose any sleep over it guys.
This plan has been discussed for so many years, yet nothing ever happened, it may very well be just pie in the sky.
The fact is that the only deciding factor will be whether the generals who control Don Muang are happy with the amount of cash that will end up in their offshore accounts via this deal.
Forget abut the rest , like dual airport policy, ease of connections and all sorts of rational things. This is Thailand.

I'm totally confused by your comments. If the generals have any say-so in the matter, why haven't there been a lot more flights at DMK for many years now? Seems to me they don't really factor in, or they're being stupid and not making anywhere close to the money they could be.

Furthermore, just what do you expect will happen as the demand to use BKK increases but they don't have the capacity? They'll start refusing new flights into Bangkok, just because the expansion of BKK isn't ready and they don't want to add flights at DMK? No way if anyone reasonable is making the decision. I realize that many unreasonable decisions are made in Thailand, but in this case I think there would be such an uproar that they would be forced to do something even if they didn't want to.

Something's got to give. I've never seen any serious talk of using DMK for LCC, both domestic AND INTERNATIONAL until now. Seems to me like it will go ahead. It really has to. There's no other viable options to immediately relieve BKK congestion. They waited way too long to start BKK expansion, and now passengers will have to deal with the two-airport scenario. Thankfully they're taking the most logical and reasonable approach and offloading the LCC's there.

Thankfully they're taking the most logical and reasonable approach and offloading the LCC's there.

Thanks for giving me the first laugh of this new day :cool:

Thanks for giving me the first laugh of this new day :cool:

I was quite serious with that remark. I've suggested that idea many times in the past in this forum. What option do you propose? Just limit the number of flights, and thus number of tourists into Bangkok? Shut down BKK altogether until they can complete the expansion? Split all domestic to DMK and all international to BKK like the totally asinine situation before when TG was operating many domestic flights out of DMK and you had to transfer between BKK and DMK just to continue with strictly TG international to domestic connections?

LCCs are point-to-point carriers. They don't guarantee connections. You already have to allow a lot of extra time to go through passport control and check-in again. So adding some extra time to commute between airports if you choose a combination of LCC and legacy carriers makes more sense than to break it up another way and have passengers connecting on legacy carriers needing to make their way between BKK and DMK. LCCs are for the cost-conscious customers who don't mind putting up with some inconveniences or lack of services in order to save money, so again it only makes sense that they should be the ones that need to change airports, not those who are paying higher prices and flying in C or F.

In the blackout situation at BKK which you just posted in another thread, having DMK as an international and domestic airport would serve as a good
backup, not needing planes to be turned around or divert to far away airports. The passengers could be processed through immigration and customs right there if necessary.

Anyways, I'm waiting to hear your alternate approach to the problem. Perhaps you have some brilliant idea, but with every idea I've ever heard, other than what they've proposing, I get a good chuckle out of how little thought goes into the ideas which will never work.

But is closer to the downtown area... would be quite weird: LCC's operate to the airport located close to the city, while legacy carriers serve the other one located further away. It is the other around in Europe:p

I've found there's actually very little difference in time to get to/from either airport in most conditions via roadways, unless your going to someplace nearby one of the particular airports. For central Bangkok, the time difference isn't really worth worrying about. However, BKK has a rail link, which can make a very big difference during rush hour. So best to have the customers paying to fly legacy carriers have access to the rail link and those who are too cheap to pay for a legacy carrier need to use the tollway during rush hour.

Great posts A_L. I wonder though, is DMK actually closer ? Cab fares are a lot higher to mid Suk than from BKK (not including toll which is higher too). You can get to BKK for less than 200. Ain't gonna happen to DMK. wj

DMK is a bit closer from central Bangkok, but if traffic is the same it'll only make the difference of a few minutes. Not really anything to make the difference in choosing one airport over the other in my opinion. Differing traffic conditions will make more of a difference. From mid-Sukhumvit, I've not measured it but guess they're probably almost equal. I personally would choose an airport based on carrier, timing of the flight, congestion at the airport, how well I liked the airport, etc, before even considering the small difference in time/traffic to get to one or the other.

I was quite serious with that remark. I've suggested that idea many times in the past in this forum. What option do you propose? Just limit the number of flights, and thus number of tourists into Bangkok? Shut down BKK altogether until they can complete the expansion? Split all domestic to DMK and all international to BKK like the totally asinine situation before when TG was operating many domestic flights out of DMK and you had to transfer between BKK and DMK just to continue with strictly TG international to domestic connections?

LCCs are point-to-point carriers. They don't guarantee connections. You already have to allow a lot of extra time to go through passport control and check-in again. So adding some extra time to commute between airports if you choose a combination of LCC and legacy carriers makes more sense than to break it up another way and have passengers connecting on legacy carriers needing to make their way between BKK and DMK. LCCs are for the cost-conscious customers who don't mind putting up with some inconveniences or lack of services in order to save money, so again it only makes sense that they should be the ones that need to change airports, not those who are paying higher prices and flying in C or F.

In the blackout situation at BKK which you just posted in another thread, having DMK as an international and domestic airport would serve as a good
backup, not needing planes to be turned around or divert to far away airports. The passengers could be processed through immigration and customs right there if necessary.

Anyways, I'm waiting to hear your alternate approach to the problem. Perhaps you have some brilliant idea, but with every idea I've ever heard, other than what they've proposing, I get a good chuckle out of how little thought goes into the ideas which will never work.

I did not say I was against reopening of DMK .
Actually I am indifferent to the idea as I hardly ever take a domestic flight in Thailand.
My point is that even if reopening DMK is the logical,reasonable solution to the current BKK problems, the air force generals do not give a damn if such a plan doesn't satisfy their greed.
Nothing else.

I did not say I was against reopening of DMK .
Actually I am indifferent to the idea as I hardly ever take a domestic flight in Thailand.
My point is that even if reopening DMK is the logical,reasonable solution to the current BKK problems, the air force generals do not give a damn if such a plan doesn't satisfy their greed.
Nothing else.

You quoted me, Thankfully they're taking the most logical and reasonable approach and offloading the LCC's there. and followed it with your comment, thus I thought you felt the idea of dividing it between LCCs at DMK and legacy carriers at BKK was a crazy idea.

Actually, as far as the generals are concerned, I would think that would give them the most traffic they could reasonably expect at DMK. Although they might not be thrilled with the highly discounted fees. But just having Air Asia (domestic + international) use DMK would be quite a few flights, adding on the rest of the LCCs, and DMK will be a busy place. It certainly would be more traffic than what they had before at the peak after moving some flights back to DMK. And with LCCs seeing a higher growth than the general airline industry, DMK would only stand to increase the numbers as time goes by. Sounds to me like a win-win situation for both the generals and the overcrowded condition at BKK.

You quoted me, and followed it with your comment, thus I thought you felt the idea of dividing it between LCCs at DMK and legacy carriers at BKK was a crazy idea.

Actually, as far as the generals are concerned, I would think that would give them the most traffic they could reasonably expect at DMK. Although they might not be thrilled with the highly discounted fees. But just having Air Asia (domestic + international) use DMK would be quite a few flights, adding on the rest of the LCCs, and DMK will be a busy place. It certainly would be more traffic than what they had before at the peak after moving some flights back to DMK. And with LCCs seeing a higher growth than the general airline industry, DMK would only stand to increase the numbers as time goes by. Sounds to me like a win-win situation for both the generals and the overcrowded condition at BKK.

Once again you are using reason and logic , in a country where they are nowhere to be found.
You are 100% right on your argument, but this means titty in Thailand.

Once again you are using reason and logic , in a country where they are nowhere to be found.
You are 100% right on your argument, but this means titty in Thailand.
and yesterday's quote: "Thanks for giving me the first laugh of this new day"

I give a s.h.i.t... on your snobby and highly emotional comments. Sorry to say, but its disqualifying yourself, Pansted! I think that A_Lee is absolutely right with his various posts regarding a double airport policy.
What other plans do the authorities have in mind with the vast and un(der)used DMK area? So far nothing else then trying to woe charter flights and private jets - with hardly any positive outcome! Probably (at least some) people have understood in what fortunate position AOT is to have two operating international airports so close by the city! It's indeed a benefit for the country - and meanwhile this seems to be understood!

and yesterday's quote: "Thanks for giving me the first laugh of this new day"

I give a s.h.i.t... on your snobby and highly emotional comments. Sorry to say, but its disqualifying yourself, Pansted! I think that A_Lee is absolutely right with his various posts regarding a double airport policy.
What other plans do the authorities have in mind with the vast and un(der)used DMK area? So far nothing else then trying to woe charter flights and private jets - with hardly any positive outcome! Probably (at least some) people have understood in what fortunate position AOT is to have two operating international airports so close by the city! It's indeed a benefit for the country - and meanwhile this seems to be understood!

They have no plan except filling their offshore accounts, can't you dig it ?
Do not blame me for their incompetence and corrupt ways .
You simply do not understand how things work here .

and yesterday's quote: "Thanks for giving me the first laugh of this new day"

I give a s.h.i.t... on your snobby and highly emotional comments. Sorry to say, but its disqualifying yourself, Pansted! I think that A_Lee is absolutely right with his various posts regarding a double airport policy.
What other plans do the authorities have in mind with the vast and un(der)used DMK area? So far nothing else then trying to woe charter flights and private jets - with hardly any positive outcome! Probably (at least some) people have understood in what fortunate position AOT is to have two operating international airports so close by the city! It's indeed a benefit for the country - and meanwhile this seems to be understood!

One more thing.
I said in my previous post that A-Lee was 100% right on his argument, so please spare me your lecture on the benefits of dual airport policy.
Being right is meaningless in a country without a rule of law .

see below link for an article in BKK post as of today:
http://www.bangkokpost.com/business/aviation/299292/blackout-threatens-hub-status-of-suvarnabhumi

There, it reads as follows:
"Asked why aircraft approaching a Suvarnabhumi landing were diverted to alternate airports as far away as Kuala Lumpur in Malaysia and Siem Reap in Cambodia and not sent to Bangkok's Don Mueang domestic airport, Mr Prajack said Don Mueang relies on the same radar system Aerothai provides for Suvarnabhumi."

it still seems a long way to use DMK as a "back-up" for BKK......:td:

see below link for an article in BKK post as of today:
http://www.bangkokpost.com/business/aviation/299292/blackout-threatens-hub-status-of-suvarnabhumi

There, it reads as follows:
"Asked why aircraft approaching a Suvarnabhumi landing were diverted to alternate airports as far away as Kuala Lumpur in Malaysia and Siem Reap in Cambodia and not sent to Bangkok's Don Mueang domestic airport, Mr Prajack said Don Mueang relies on the same radar system Aerothai provides for Suvarnabhumi."

it still seems a long way to use DMK as a "back-up" for BKK......:td:

Don't know why they diverted to KUL and Siem Reap but the back-up airport for BKK and DMK is U-thapao airport. May be those planes were near KUL and Siem Reap more than U-thapao.

Don't know why they diverted to KUL and Siem Reap but the back-up airport for BKK and DMK is U-thapao airport. May be those planes were near KUL and Siem Reap more than U-thapao.

There seems to be some merit in this thought. While I'm not sure of the KUL angle, I am aware that most flights coming into BKK from the north/east will pass over Ubon (UBP) which is not much north of REP. Flights coming in from ICN, NRT, KIX etc will come in the same path and REP is a realistic alternative.

There seems to be some merit in this thought. While I'm not sure of the KUL angle, I am aware that most flights coming into BKK from the north/east will pass over Ubon (UBP) which is not much north of REP. Flights coming in from ICN, NRT, KIX etc will come in the same path and REP is a realistic alternative.

Another article that I read earlier mentioned that there were two flights that originated in KUL and had to turn back. Perhaps there was a flight from REP as well that turned back, but wasn't mentioned. I don't think any flights were diverted to KUL.

From Air Asia they are moving to DMK from 1st Oct 2012

[Important Notice] AirAsia will transfer all Bangkok Flight Operations to Don Mueang Airport (Terminal 1) from 1 October 2012.

Dear fans,

Please note that starting from 1 October 2012, AirAsia (AK, FD, and QZ flights) will transfer all of its Bangkok operations to Don Mueang Airport (Terminal 1) in the interest of providing better service to our passengers.

Guests’ flight details in the existing booking, such as flight number and flight schedules will not be affected by the move to Don Mueang Airport.

Guests who are affected by the switch to Don Mueang Airport, may alter their flights by:
1) Choosing another travel date on the same route either 7 days before or after their original travel date, at no additional cost
2) Converting the paid flight into credit shell available to be used within the next 90 days.

Please note that these 2 options are only available to affected Guests who have made flight booking before 26 June 2012 and traveling from 1 October 2012 onwards.For more information, please visit http://bit.ly/PpoOLC. Guest may also contact our Customer Care team via e-Form (http://www.airasia.com/my/en/​faqdetailsform.page) for further assistance.

From Air Asia they are moving to DMK from 1st Oct 2012

Great news. Finally what should have happened years ago. And true to their form, Air Asia again screws over their customers. Notice they do not allow a refund for customers who may not be able to use tickets they purchased. What if someone already booked, let's say a TG flight, and a connecting flight on Air Asia from BKK. Due to Air Asia's decision to move to DMK, the ticket is now worthless if you cannot make the connection. If you cannot change your TG flight, and have no need to fly Air Asia on any other occasions, then you're screwed with eating the cost of your Air Asia ticket and buying some other ticket. Completely par for the course with Air Asia though, so not at all surprised. But kudos to them for getting out of BKK and freeing up resources for the real carriers.

Now that it's confirmed that this is not just domestic flights, but is the transfer of LCCs to DMK, both domestic and international, perhaps a moderator can change the title of this thread to something more correct/appropriate.

Great news. Finally what should have happened years ago. And true to their form, Air Asia again screws over their customers. Notice they do not allow a refund for customers who may not be able to use tickets they purchased. What if someone already booked, let's say a TG flight, and a connecting flight on Air Asia from BKK. Due to Air Asia's decision to move to DMK, the ticket is now worthless if you cannot make the connection. If you cannot change your TG flight, and have no need to fly Air Asia on any other occasions, then you're screwed with eating the cost of your Air Asia ticket and buying some other ticket. Completely par for the course with Air Asia though, so not at all surprised. But kudos to them for getting out of BKK and freeing up resources for the real carriers.


I'm no fan of Air Asia, but they do allow pax who ticketed prior to June 26 the allowance to change their flights within a 14 day window of the original schedule.

They also will credit the flight cost to other flights should pax decide to cancel their itin.

Not offering a refund is a very poor (but expected) decision.

These policies don't equate with screwing the customer IMO. They do mean that pax need to keep onto of their itins if other flights were intended to tag along with the Air Asia flights.

Should help Bangkok hotels a bit. They've totally overbuilt the smaller 3-4 * category (which LCC patrons will probably frequent). wj

Should help Bangkok hotels a bit. They've totally overbuilt the smaller 3-4 * category (which LCC patrons will probably frequent). wj

Not sure I follow how the move will bring more people/help out smaller hotels.

People will layover in town and take the LCC the next day and vice-versa. I know I will. wj

G
Now that it's confirmed that this is not just domestic flights, but is the transfer of LCCs to DMK, both domestic and international, perhaps a moderator can change the title of this thread to something more correct/appropriate.

Yes moderator, please change my "domestice". I am so embarrassed about my "French" typo.

:rolleyes:

I think it had more to do with the fact that it will be both international AND domestic(e) flights. Why are people in this thread so touchy? Regardless of whether it is good policy or not, which we can debate, the thread might as well at least reflect the correct information @:-)

quite confusing: does AirAsia have an exclusive deal with AOT?
see article below:

"Orient Thai surprised by AoT denial"
(Published: 27/06/2012)
Orient Thai Airlines says it is too late to back off from relocating its base from Suvarnabhumi airport to Don Mueang despite being denied incentives to switch.
The budget airline's jetliners started descending into Bangkok's old airport last night, their new staging point, and other ground support systems are now ready for the new operation beginning this morning.
"Everything is on course. We cannot afford to put on the brakes, as our passengers have already been advised of the change in base and will be going to Don Mueang for their flights," founder Udom Tantiprasongchai said yesterday.
He said he was taken by surprise by the announcement by Airports of Thailand Plc (AoT) that his airline is not entitled to a package of fee discounts designed to entice budget airlines to relocate from Suvarnabhumi.
Orient Thai is caught in a dilemma, as it had understood it was entitled to the incentives package since it was one of 14 airlines on AoT's list and that it was until yesterday operating through Suvarnabhumi, a crucial prerequisite set by AoT.
The airline has already returned most of the space it was renting from AoT at Suvarnabhumi, diminishing the possibility of maintaining its presence at Suvarnabhumi.
All its domestic flights have been shifted to Don Mueang, but Orient Thai will still use Suvarnabhumi for its limited Hong Kong service.
As a result, Orient Thai today becomes the second scheduled airline based at Don Mueang, joining Nok Air, the other budget airline now using the old airport.
Nok Air, which uses Don Mueang exclusively, returned there in March after the airport recovered from last year's severe flooding.
Mr Udom said Orient Thai and Nok Air will continue to seek fair treatment from AoT in the face of what they see as discrimination in being denied the same incentives that were on Tuesday bestowed on Thai AirAsia, Thailand's largest low-cost carrier.
Patee Sarasin, Nok Air's chief executive, yesterday questioned AoT's ethical judgement in granting incentives.
"Whether an airline chooses to relocate to Don Mueang is irrelevant, but ensuring that airlines are treated fairly and equally is a significant matter," Mr Patee told the Bangkok Post.

Welcome to Thailand :) Being rational and logical (+ fair) is not one of their trademarks.

Wish I had invested in the Old DMK Amari Hotel who's rates went from $150 a Night to $30 when The Swamp opened. Maybe they will now be able to earn some kind of income again.

Yes moderator, please change my "domestice". I am so embarrassed about my "French" typo.

Corrected as requested. ;)

Corrected as requested. ;)

Merci

:D

One would think Thai Air Asia just has to come up with a new fee involving their move from BKK to DMK. ;)

What will they call it?

One would think Thai Air Asia just has to come up with a new fee involving their move from BKK to DMK. ;)

What will they call it?

Passenger ease/relocation fee. This fee will go up each year as another 10% discount to their landing fees gets negated.

another article about this topic by BKK-Post of today (Published: 6/07/2012)

"Airlines unsure about Don Mueang move

Sketchy plans for support facilities are keeping airlines from committing to relocate from Suvarnabhumi airport to Don Mueang:

Air Asia / Thai Air Asia / Indonesia air Asia (in fact only and same company!)
Tiger Airways
Jetstar Asia / Jetstar Airways (one airline!)
Cebu Pacific
Air Berlin
T'Way Airlines
Easter JEt
JeJu Air
Jin Air
IndiGo
Tomsonfly

Unclear availability of facilities for ground handling, catering, immigration, duty-free shopping and customs services were named by executives as complicating the shift to Bangkok's old airport, code-named DMK.

Another question mark is passenger-oriented service such as ground transport between DMK and Suvarnabhumi (BKK) to accommodate flight connections.

"These are critical factors in the decision-making process and are not yet clear to us," a senior executive of a South Korean budget carrier told the Bangkok Post. "I'm afraid unless these are made clear to us, we cannot make a decision and would rather stay put and endure congestion at Suvarnabhumi."

Another cost is transporting in-flight meals from catering at BKK to DMK.

Also, DMK has no formal ground handling services, like aircraft cabin cleaning and plane push-back tractors, making it necessary for airlines to find their own facilities or service providers.

A Thai airline veteran said it could turn out to be worthless for most carriers to shift operations to DMK, despite an incentive package that includes discounts on landing and parking fees and reduced space rental charges.

Airports of Thailand Plc (AoT) has found it difficult to attract 11 of 14 budget airlines to DMK that operate point-to-point domestic and international routes. So far only AirAsia group has signed up.

Many airlines seem unenthusiastic about moving to DMK because of uncertainties that could obstruct flight operations.

At least two airlines, Jetstar and IndiGo, have indicated they have no immediate plans for a base change.

But AoT president Anirut Thanomkulbutra said it has been in discussions with 13 government organisations about providing the services and facilities needed to ensure DMK is functional.

The full renovation of Terminal 1 should be finished this month, he said.

"What I can assure you is that by Oct 1, or even sooner, DMK will be ready to serve the AirAsia Group and others as planned," said Mr Anirut.

DMK serves just two budget carriers from Thailand _ Nok Air and Orient Thai."


With Air Asia Group, Nok Air and Orient Thai, AOT have managed to have the bulk of low cost airlines operate to/from DMK.
Apart from Jet Star Group, for the rest of the above mentioned airlines it wouldn't have much effect on congestion etc.
(They even name Air Berlin as a possible airline to move to DMK, which is nonsense: AB is no longer flying by own equipment to BKK at all as all their flights to BKK are now being operated by EY-equipment.)

It it wasn't pathetic, the endemic incompetence of Thai civil servants would be funny, wouldn't it ?
Pathetic corrupt buffoons.
Nothing else.

"Don Mueang to resume international role"
-published: 10/07/2012 by BKK Post-
"Don Mueang will resume its role as an international airport this Saturday, when the South Korean budget carrier T'way Airlines starts regular descents there.
But T'way has not wholeheartedly embraced running its second daily Bangkok-Inchoen flight through the city's old airport _ constraints at Suvarnabhumi are forcing the move.
Airline executives said the airline will only offer its additional daily service temporarily through Don Mueang from July 14 to Sept 30.
This the period will see extra traffic demand on the city pair, especially from the South Korean side.
T'way will continue to operate the other main daily flight between Bangkok and Inchoen at Suvarnabhumi, where it has provided service since its October 2011 inception with a B737-800, the twin-engine single-aisle jet configured with 189 seats.
The airline was pressured to introduce its second daily flight through Don Mueang because it was denied slots from Airports of Thailand (AoT), which has banned additional flights through Suvarnabhumi during the shutdown of one its two runways for maintenance from June 11-Aug 9 to avoid further congestion.
Nawinee Hengnalen, the general manager of BuyNow Co, the general sales agent for T'way Airlines in Thailand, explained T'way's second daily flight was marketed before Suvarnabhumi's constraints emerged, and it could not be dropped.
"I'm afraid the show must go on, as we've made commitments to our customers," she told the Bangkok Post.
Suvarnabhumi remains the preferred base for T'way.
Like many other international budget airlines, the South Korean carrier has not found the incentives being granted to them by AoT in terms of discounted landing and parking fees plus space rental charges to make the shift to Don Mueang worthwhile.
Sketchy plans for the provision of airline/passenger support facilities for ground handling, catering, immigration, customs, cargo and duty-free shops are holding up most of the 14 discount airlines operating point-to-point domestic and international routes from relocating to Don Mueang.
These are crucial points that airlines are most concerned about, as they prevent the smooth operation of services.
So far, only one airline group, AirAsia, which includes Thai AirAsia, Indonesia AirAsia and the Malaysian parent, has committed to relocating entirely to Don Mueang, starting on Oct 1.
The AirAsia Group will join Nok Air and Orient Thai Airlines, Thailand's own discount airlines and which have been operating their domestic flights through Don Mueang since March and late last month, respectively, albeit without AoT incentives.
T'way is being subject to higher costs in ground handling and catering to support their Don Mueang flights, as those facilities are not yet in place at Don Mueang .
AoT president Anirut Thanomkulbutra said the airport authority has been working with 13 organisations involved with the provision of support services and facilities at Don Mueang to ensure they are ready by Oct 1 or even sooner.
He said AoT has been in talks with "two or three airlines", which he declined to name, about shifting to Don Mueang."

I predict few will actually make the move.

Air Asia will do it because they only care about their operating costs. They will be able to manage their own catering, cleaning, ground services by themselves because the scale of their operation is large enough to warrant it.

I then predict that the Air Asia ground services will sub-contract their services to any other airline that want to pay.

Just as JetStar doesn't use the budget terminal at Singapore, I think many airlines will stay at Suvarnabhumi. I mean wouldn't you?

Call me a cynic. And I may be wrong... but I have seen too many announcements that are worth nothing more than the paper they are printed upon. Thais are good at planning, not so good at executing. :D

Thais are good at planning, not so good at executing. :D

I think you're spot on, there are too many deficiencies at DMK to warrant most airlines to move.

However I disagree on the above. Thais are good at planning to plan but we might need to form a committee to look into that. ;)

The Smiles flight to macau left from BKK, so obviously TG thinks so too, and this could be the reason they are tagging Smiles as Thai flights

FOR THE MILEAGE RUNNERS: If you are living in Thailand and need mileage quickly eg for a cheap 50% off award on a new A380, buy the cheap business class Smiles return fare.l If you buy with Amex and already get bonuses, this will put more than a smile on your face, this will not last, this is better than BD in the old days

The Smiles flight to macau left from BKK, so obviously TG thinks so too, and this could be the reason they are tagging Smiles as Thai flights

FOR THE MILEAGE RUNNERS: If you are living in Thailand and need mileage quickly eg for a cheap 50% off award on a new A380, buy the cheap business class Smiles return fare.l If you buy with Amex and already get bonuses, this will put more than a smile on your face, this will not last, this is better than BD in the old days

How many flights do you require on BKK-MFM in J class return to make enough miles at 12,500 baht each trip? With no bonuses you would accrue approx 2560 miles per return trip. How much do you get extra with AMEX?

This bares no resemblance to BD IMO, but please show me how it does.

Should I expect lower airfares now if I fly out of DMK?

Or am I being too optimistic :).

Should I expect lower airfares now if I fly out of DMK?

Or am I being too optimistic :).

Air Asia will most assuredly pass the savings to Tony Fernandez. Good luck with your desire for cheaper fares.

A friendly reminder to stay on topic. This thread is about domestic flights moving to DMK. Thanks, all!!

Regards,

Dr. HFH

A friendly reminder to stay on topic. This thread is about domestic flights moving to DMK. Thanks, all!!

Regards,

Dr. HFH

That's what the title says - which is completely untrue. perhaps it should be changed. All domestic flights are NOT moving to DMK. One carrier (Air Asia group) has decided to shift it's entire operation there.

That's what the title says - which is completely untrue. perhaps it should be changed. All domestic flights are NOT moving to DMK. One carrier (Air Asia group) has decided to shift it's entire operation there.

Spot on. The desire to the current gov is to have all LCCs move to DMK for all their flights. Currently DD and OX are already operating out of DMK and as of Oct 1 FD (AK etc) will also be there.

What the title says is not at all what is happening nor what is being discussed within this thread.

That's what the title says - which is completely untrue. perhaps it should be changed. All domestic flights are NOT moving to DMK. One carrier (Air Asia group) has decided to shift it's entire operation there.

Spot on. The desire to the current gov is to have all LCCs move to DMK for all their flights. Currently DD and OX are already operating out of DMK and as of Oct 1 FD (AK etc) will also be there.

What the title says is not at all what is happening nor what is being discussed within this thread.

You both make a good point. I have changed the title of the thread slightly to reflect more accurately both the content of the article cited in the opening post and the discussion taking place in this thread.

Cheers!!

Some pics from DMK 2 weeks ago.

Still playing golf between the 2 runways :)

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff124/lamai64/ft/IMG_0885.jpg

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff124/lamai64/ft/IMG_0888.jpg

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff124/lamai64/ft/IMG_0889.jpg

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff124/lamai64/ft/IMG_0892.jpg

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff124/lamai64/ft/IMG_0893.jpg

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff124/lamai64/ft/IMG_0895.jpg

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff124/lamai64/ft/IMG_0896.jpg

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff124/lamai64/ft/IMG_0897.jpg

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff124/lamai64/ft/IMG_0900.jpg

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff124/lamai64/ft/IMG_0904.jpg

Thanks for the excellent pics. I flew out of the old girl 4 times in May. She looked all right to me. I'm looking forward to the switchover. wj

On July 8 arriving into DMK on a DD flight we also pulled into the same gate wing. It's been years since I saw the immi desks and went into the international baggage claim area. Brought back some fond memories.

In the intervening years all my TG and DD flights (all 10 of the latter) arrived into the old domestic portion of DMK.

Some pics from DMK 2 weeks ago.

Wow, thanks for the memories.

Two executive 744s? Japanese PM or member of royal family? What about the other one? Who's ride is that?

Had a closer look at the original pics and the japanese one has registration 20-1101 and the other one is a former LH-bird now serving Brunei Government and have reg V8-ALI

I booked a flight on Air Asia about a month ago - on Nov 20 BKK-SIN. AirAsia still shows it as leaving from BKK - will they operate flights from BKK and DMK?

I booked a flight on Air Asia about a month ago - on Nov 20 BKK-SIN. AirAsia still shows it as leaving from BKK - will they operate flights from BKK and DMK?

No, they have said their operations will be moved in entirety to DMK as of Oct 1.

You both make a good point. I have changed the title of the thread slightly to reflect more accurately both the content of the article cited in the opening post and the discussion taking place in this thread.

Cheers!!

The problem with the current title is the gov's policy has nothing to do with domestic flights. TG and PG will remain in BKK, and were never asked/expected, to move. DD and OX were already back to operating out of DMK.

The push was for point to point carriers to move their operations, dom and int, to DMK to open space at BKK.

At least that's how I've been understanding this charade.

The problem with the current title is the gov's policy has nothing to do with domestic flights. TG and PG will remain in BKK, and were never asked/expected, to move. DD and OX were already back to operating out of DMK.

The push was for point to point carriers to move their operations, dom and int, to DMK to open space at BKK.

At least that's how I've been understanding this charade.

Yep. The word, 'domestic' doesn't belong in the title. Though at this point the thread has been running so long with an inaccurate title that I don't know that it matters anymore. A more accurate title in my mind would have been, "Some LCC and Point-to-Point Carriers May Move to DMK".

Yep. The word, 'domestic' doesn't belong in the title. Though at this point the thread has been running so long with an inaccurate title that I don't know that it matters anymore. A more accurate title in my mind would have been, "Some LCC and Point-to-Point Carriers May Move to DMK".
No, the title should be AIR ASIA MOVES TO DMK ! Who the Hell is OX ? wj

No, the title should be AIR ASIA MOVES TO DMK ! Who the Hell is OX ? wj

Air Asia moves to DMK while DD/OX told to eat dirt and pay normal fees.

OX is Orient Thai. Known for their crash in Phuket a few years ago and having some ugly old planes. :D

Air Asia moves to DMK while DD/OX told to eat dirt and pay normal fees.

OX is Orient Thai. Known for their crash in Phuket a few years ago and having some ugly old planes. :D

Thanks D. I even Googled OX and came up with bubkis. I thought I read they're giving everybody the rate cut. Same airline as One-to-Go I guess. wj

Thanks D. I even Googled OX and came up with bubkis. I thought I read they're giving everybody the rate cut. Same airline as One-to-Go I guess. wj

yes Orient Thai used to be the international division and One Two Go the domestic. they just stick to the one name now, they mostly have switched to flying 737-300 with winglets instead of the MD82s as well (for domestic).

No, the title should be AIR ASIA MOVES TO DMK ! Who the Hell is OX ? wj

I think there's still a chance that other airlines will move, even though they haven't announced any yet, so "...May Move to DMK" is still appropriate.

yes Orient Thai used to be the international division and One Two Go the domestic. they just stick to the one name now, they mostly have switched to flying 737-300 with winglets instead of the MD82s as well (for domestic).

I recall seeing something that they were forced to decide on just one name, rather than using two names in an attempt to confuse people into thinking they were two separate airlines. They probably figured the "One Two Go" name had a badly soiled reputation after the crash, so stuck with the Orient Thai name. There are actually some people that see the "Thai" in "Orient Thai" and think it's a division of Thai Airways. A shame TG didn't/couldn't do something to force them to stop using that name.

They used to have a few very old B747 planes that they either flew to Hong Kong and a few other places, or just left them parked without using them. I wonder if they're still flying those planes, mothballed, or they found some suckers to buy them.

I recall seeing something that they were forced to decide on just one name, rather than using two names in an attempt to confuse people into thinking they were two separate airlines. They probably figured the "One Two Go" name had a badly soiled reputation after the crash, so stuck with the Orient Thai name. There are actually some people that see the "Thai" in "Orient Thai" and think it's a division of Thai Airways. A shame TG didn't/couldn't do something to force them to stop using that name.

They used to have a few very old B747 planes that they either flew to Hong Kong and a few other places, or just left them parked without using them. I wonder if they're still flying those planes, mothballed, or they found some suckers to buy them.

I think they fly the 747-300's now to HKG and Korea. The -300s are now ancient as well. Much like the -100s or -200s they used to fly were.

I think they fly the 747-300's now to HKG and Korea. The -300s are now ancient as well. Much like the -100s or -200s they used to fly were.

Curiosity got the best of me so I took a look at their website. What a joke. They only allow online booking for their domestic flights, but list flights to Hong Kong in their international schedule. No other international flights are listed. Then they have this:

Based in Bangkok, Thailand, Orient Thai Airlines's reputation started in 1994 with a fleet of four Lockheed L1011 Tristar Aircrafts, a type of aircraft similar in size to the 747 Jumbo Jet. In 2000, Orient Thai realized the need for a more modern fleet to reduce operational costs and thus replaced the Lockheed L1011 Tristar fleet with newer and more efficient Boeing 747’s that improved operational capacity and range. Ever since 2000, we have been adding more and more 747’s to our fleet. Orient Thai Airlines operates Domestic flights with a fleet of McDonnell Douglas and Boeing 737 and operates flights to Chiang Mai, Chiang Rai, Phuket and Had Yai.

Since when is an L1011 similar in size to a 747? It's not even as big as a 777-200.

It's pretty bad when you have to brag about modernizing your fleet by replacing L1011's with B747-100's. Those must have been some pretty old and nasty L1011's they had.

the move to DMK airport is clearly meant for "LCC Low Cost airlines" (vs. "legacy airlines" as which both, TG and PG, may be regarded).

See also below acticle in today's BKK Post regarding preparations for renovations at DMK airport:

"Work at Don Mueang's T2 leads to flaring tempers"
Airports of Thailand Plc (AoT) has quietly begun planning renovations on the second flood-ravaged passenger terminal at Don Mueang airport, in a move that has fuelled industry fears the terminal will be exclusively use by no-frills AirAsia group.
Airline executives, who asked to remain anonymous, insisted the renovation of Terminal 2 (T2) at Bangkok's old airport has recently gone into full operation internally with no prior knowledge given to the industry nor even the public.
Executives see the early renovation of T2 as preparation for the three carriers under the AirAsia flag, which last month became the first airline group to agree to shift its base from crowded Suvarnabhumi airport.
Thai airline executives were sceptical about what they believe is preferential treatment for AirAsia from AoT in return for switching airports.
In response, AoT president Anirut Thanomkulbutra said certain works are being carried out at T2 in order to gather information needed for renovation, but not specifically for AirAsia use.
He did not elaborate on the renovation plan for T2, although AoT officials have initially estimated it to cost 50 million baht.
"We have not started fixing T2," he reiterated.
Mr Anirut repeated his earlier denial that AoT would not allow any single airline to have exclusive use of an entire passenger terminal.
AirAsia is slated to use Terminal 1, the first of three passenger terminals at Don Mueang reactivated in March after last year's flood, when they start operations there this Oct 1.
AirAsia would operate alongside other budget carriers _ Nok Air, Orient Thai and perhaps a few others _ at T1, said Mr Anirut.
Only when T1 reaches its capacity of 16 million passengers a year will AoT reopen T2. Don Mueang is taking a greater role in serving discount carriers and point-to-point services, said Mr Anirut.
"The idea is T1 could then be used for international services and T2 for domestic flights," he added.
The three AirAsia airlines could generate up to 9 million passengers annually at Don Mueang, and with Nok Air's 4 million passengers per year and Orient Thai and other budget carriers, T1 could reach capacity in a few years, said Mr Anirut.
T2 is capable of accommodating 9 million passengers a year. Don Mueang's overall capacity is 36.5 million passengers a year.