Travel Technology - Microsoft Zune Tablet released

http://www.idownloadblog.com/2012/06/18/microsoft-introduces-surface/

We had a hunch that Microsoft’s media event today would have something to do with a tablet, and it looks like we were right. The Windows-makers have just unveiled a new slate called the Microsoft Surface.

Described as a “tablet that’s a great PC, and a PC that’s a great tablet,” the Surface looks to be much more than an iPad competitor. It has a 10.6-inch display, magnesium casing, and weighs in at just 1.5 pounds…

Other features of the Surface include a full-sized USB 2.0 port, 9.33mm profile, and a built-in kickstand. And Microsoft has also introduced an interesting accessory for the slate, a multitouch keyboard with a built-in trackpad.

How long before this next iPad killer dies in the marketplace?

In 4 1 if it's <$300. :cool:

I have to give it to MS -- they never give up! But nobody wants a Windows tablet. I give it 6 months before they pull the plug on this one.

I give it 6 weeks before blue screen complaints lol

The specs of Surface are interesting. I read a brief "review" (http://www.engadget.com/2012/06/18/hands-on-with-microsoft-surface-for-windows-rt/) (more like commentary than an actual review) on Engadget that was favourable enough. The inclusion of a standard USB port will undoubtedly be useful.

But as the folks from RIM found out, in the end it all depends on how the thing really works (or doesn't). It's simply not enough to have a touch screen covered in gorilla glass where you can pinch to zoom / shrink your photos. The tablet experience needs to be so much more than that.

Kudos to Microsoft for trying though. And at this very early stage, it's possible they may have gotten some things right such as the cover keyboard and the pen input. But obviously we'll have to wait and see what the real thing is like before passing judgement.

In the meantime, my trusty iPad2 and my new iPhone4S will be more than sufficient to keep me going!

they are using the zune name?

Because it was so successful before, I suppose.

-David

they are using the zune name?

Because it was so successful before, I suppose.

-David

LOL...

For a moment I thought the same thing. Great ironic title, OP!

No, they're not using the Zune name. OP seemingly is having flashbacks.

It's the Microsoft Surface tablet. Surface for Windows RT, Surface for Windows Pro, and associated touch covers.

Read/see a good overview of the presentation at http://live.theverge.com/microsoft-live-blog-tablet-announcement/

No, they're not using the Zune name. OP seemingly is having flashbacks.



OP is making a not-so-subtle prediction about likelihood of success of the product.... Pretty funny, actually....

:D

I'm rather surprised people on this site aren't more excited about this. From my perspective, I don't want a tablet, I want to be able to produce not just consume with my electronic devices. It would seem that the form factor (keyboard option) the weight/size, and the opportunity to run traditional windows applications as well as the new Windows 8 apps, would make this a no brainer for anyone who travels frequently.

I recently purchased a dm1z from HP, specifically because of the size and battery capabilities. If it wasn't for the frequent travel, I would say this thing sucks. But I'm grateful to have it because of flying frequently. The opportunity for me to get a device that is even smaller/lighter and have the touchscreen is a really big deal.

How this can be mocked as an iPad killer is beyond me. It doesn't feel like a tablet to me, as I view this more as a laptop. Something the iPad CLEARLY is not.

I'm rather surprised people on this site aren't more excited about this. From my perspective, I don't want a tablet, I want to be able to produce not just consume with my electronic devices. It would seem that the form factor (keyboard option) the weight/size, and the opportunity to run traditional windows applications as well as the new Windows 8 apps, would make this a no brainer for anyone who travels frequently.

I recently purchased a dm1z from HP, specifically because of the size and battery capabilities. If it wasn't for the frequent travel, I would say this thing sucks. But I'm grateful to have it because of flying frequently. The opportunity for me to get a device that is even smaller/lighter and have the touchscreen is a really big deal.

How this can be mocked as an iPad killer is beyond me. It doesn't feel like a laptop to me, as I view this more as a laptop. Something the iPad CLEARLY is not.I'm very interested in this -- at least the Intel version that runs full Win 8. I like the keyboard add-ons, and the ability to run "regular" Windows programs. Everything comes down to how much this thing costs.

LOL...

For a moment I thought the same thing. Great ironic title, OP!

Thank you, thank you. :D:D:D

OP is making a not-so-subtle prediction about likelihood of success of the product.... Pretty funny, actually....

:D

Once again, thank you. It seems someone got the inside joke (besides the joke that the Zune Tablet will be within a few months of hitting the market).

^^



Oooooh...... post #5,000!!

http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/1050/futuramashutupandtakemy.jpg

Looks like a winner to me, as long as they don't make the mistake of trying to sell it for more than the cost of an equivalent iPad. Bundling Office is an inspired bit of thinking and the case/keyboard looks fine for light content creation and blogging.

Wirelessly posted (iPhone 3G: Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 5_1_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9B206 Safari/7534.48.3)

When you come to the party at such a late stage, you need a USP, or multiple USPs (if that isn't oxymoronic). I don't see a killer one at this point.

Apple & Google together have raised the bar hugely and a whole generation of potential customers is growing up to whom MS means effectively nothing. RIM showed the enterprise market isn't the lock it was, so MS have a real battle to build a meaningful niche. They certainly have the resources, but they need a real USP to make it register.

Inquiring minds would like to know.

I'm very interested in this -- at least the Intel version that runs full Win 8. I like the keyboard add-ons, and the ability to run "regular" Windows programs. Everything comes down to how much this thing costs.

so if you're going to run widows, windows apps, and carry a keyboard, why not just buy a small laptop???? seems like that would travel just as well...

Tablet form factor with well thought out keyboard cover, tablet interface, likely tablet optimised apps plus (for the Wintel device) should run pretty much everything else on top of that. Not so much a USP as a collection of vaguely useful bits and pieces that add up.

Oh, and make no mistake, there will be a Transformer type form factor in the pipeline.

I'm rather surprised people on this site aren't more excited about this.

There is currently nothing to be excited about. As one press story said

At a press event in Los Angeles Monday afternoon, Microsoft announced an eye-catching new tablet computer but didn't specify what it would cost, when it would go on sale or how long it would run on a charge. What could possibly go wrong with that?

We don't know how crippled the operating system will be, why they used the same name from another product from 2007 (kisoks with touch screens). The keyboard cover is no big deal, I see people with ipads using them all the time.

Not letting the reporters actually use them at the event, just hold them, also is not all that encouraging.

There are many holes they need to fill in before anybody has any reason to get excited about them.

so if you're going to run widows, windows apps, and carry a keyboard, why not just buy a small laptop???? seems like that would travel just as well...Because a small laptop isn't a tablet. I have a table that I use a lot . . . as a tablet. There are occasions, though, when I want it to do more. This Microsoft tablet-with-optional-keyboard seems to fit the bill.

As someone who stayed off the Apple bandwagon, I'd be interested in this as long the price is the below the Ipad.

To me this Microsoft tablet is another iteration of the slate TabletPCs that has been available since 2003. (Actually earlier than that, as I recall a Fujitsu slate that is Win98 powered, but WinXP gained TabletPC support in ca. 2003.)

As someone who has owned a slate TabletPC since 2004, my advise is to brace for disappointment, though it is no fault of Microsoft. Microsoft has been steadily improving TabletPC support since XP, but the vast majority of developers did not want to take the risk. So you will be stuck using an onscreen or external keyboard as input most of time. On the rare occasion you come across an ink-enabled application, it is a real joy.

The main thing we learned yesterday is that Microsoft still hasn't learned from Apple how to conduct a new product release presser.

Whether you've gone all-in with Apple or not, you gotta admit...they always nail the presser.

The main thing we learned yesterday is that Microsoft still hasn't learned from Apple how to conduct a new product release presser.

Whether you've gone all-in with Apple or not, you gotta admit...they always nail the presser.I agree. When you are the gorilla in the room (Apple), you can get away with not having functioning display models and detailed specs etc. as there's a user base who, to date, are already paying attention. MS don't have that luxury. It's smacks of something that was rushed out before it was really ready for a launch.

If it has a screen that rivals the retina display (I'd even settle for 1080p), and it's priced competitively, I might consider it.

I still like my TouchPad, and it does everything it needs to do as a tablet.

I love my Ipad but if it is cheap enough I would buy one for work. I need to use a mouse for our software and need flash to run our work software, this would be much better than carrying a laptop. That being said, I would keep the Ipad, still better than carrying a laptop and Ipad.

There is currently nothing to be excited about. As one press story said

At a press event in Los Angeles Monday afternoon, Microsoft announced an eye-catching new tablet computer but didn't specify what it would cost, when it would go on sale or how long it would run on a charge. What could possibly go wrong with that?

We don't know how crippled the operating system will be, why they used the same name from another product from 2007 (kisoks with touch screens). The keyboard cover is no big deal, I see people with ipads using them all the time.

Not letting the reporters actually use them at the event, just hold them, also is not all that encouraging.

There are many holes they need to fill in before anybody has any reason to get excited about them.

All of which is why the name Zune jumped out at me when I read about this unit. It has fail written all over it. How long before a MS exec admits that they never should have brought it to market, as they recently did when commenting about the Zune?

Windows 8 release to manufacturing is supposed to be less than 2 months away. So far, nobody has been clamoring for it, and many have been fiercely resisting it. The whole idea of Metro is to have the same OS from computer to tablet to phone.

Tomorrow, Microsoft will announce their Windows 8 phone.

This is all about pushing Windows 8, folks.

I agree. When you are the gorilla in the room (Apple), you can get away with not having functioning display models and detailed specs etc. as there's a user base who, to date, are already paying attention. MS don't have that luxury. It's smacks of something that was rushed out before it was really ready for a launch.
when apple announced the ipad, they said how long the battery would last, how much it would cost, when it would ship and also had hands-on demo units available for reporters at the intro event.

six months ago, eric schmidt said "In the next six months we plan to market a tablet of the highest quality (http://www.slashgear.com/google-nexus-tablet-in-next-6-months-teases-schmidt-19203174/)" and google i/o is next week. microsoft really wanted to say something this week.

MS appears to be targeting this directly towards the biggest shortcomings of the iPad. If it turns out to be a real product and is priced competitively they could actually sell some of these.

I love my ipad but it is horrible for most content creation (fantastic for consumption). Throwing in an accessible file system/USB/useable Excel or equivalent/easier access to the PITA proprietary systems so many businesses are tied to etc should sell some tablets.

Looks to be classic MSFT vaporware for now but will be curious to see how this progresses.

Only to be available from Microsoft, either at their own stores or at their online store.

This limited distribution strategy may be one way they're placating OEMs. Rather than try to ship high volume of units, it may be more along the vein of the Nexus phones. Nice reference designs but not a high volume product.

If that's the case, why bother? That is what doomed the Zune, that they wouldn't commit to making and selling a ton of units, so they couldn't compete with the iPod on price/cost. They didn't sell the Zune outside the US either.

So far, most of the buzz seems to be about those colorful keyboards/covers, which are probably optional accessories.

But there seems to be an interest in this hybrid device, since it can be both a laptop (with a good keyboard) or a thicker, heavier tablet. Of course, there wasn't a big market for the Tablet PCs that MS has been pushing for a decade now. But these should be more sleek and cheaper.

All of which is why the name Zune jumped out at me when I read about this unit. It has fail written all over it. How long before a MS exec admits that they never should have brought it to market, as they recently did when commenting about the Zune?

Thankfully, almost every tech site (who actually got to hold one) disagrees with you.

For a take on Surface from people who actually know tech, read this Engadget editorial:

http://www.engadget.com/2012/06/19/editorial-engadget-on-microsofts-new-surface-tablet-line/

That said, care to explain which parts have "fail" written all over it? Personal opinions please, not stuff cut and pasted from Apple sites.

To me, this has success written all over it, because they'll be doing the opposite of what Apple is trying - Apple is taking the best of iOS to the desktop, and Microsoft is taking the best of the desktop to a tablet. And with >90% of the market using Windows, there WILL be people who don't want to screw around with multiple systems. With Windows 8 sharing preferences between machines, Surface has the potential to be something big.

Though the decision to only sell directly will backfire, and I hope they rethink that soon.

Windows 8 release to manufacturing is supposed to be less than 2 months away. So far, nobody has been clamoring for it, and many have been fiercely resisting it. The whole idea of Metro is to have the same OS from computer to tablet to phone.

Tomorrow, Microsoft will announce their Windows 8 phone.

This is all about pushing Windows 8, folks.I'm sure that's true, and I have absolute ZERO interest in Windows 8. My only interest in this tablet is its ability to run the stuff I'm already running under Win7.

they are using the zune name?

Because it was so successful before, I suppose.

-David

No. The OP didn't realize that they shouldn't quit their regular job and try out as a stand up comedian. OP was trying for humour.

For a take on Surface from people who actually know tech, read this Engadget editorial:

http://www.engadget.com/2012/06/19/editorial-engadget-on-microsofts-new-surface-tablet-line/

To be fair, that article is all speculation, too. None of them have even held one, nor does anyone know the true specs.

The article states its price needs to be competitive with the iPad family. Wrong. It needs to be significantly cheaper for anyone to be swayed to buy one--and that's just for the people who have resisted taking a bite out of the fruit. IMO, it's going to be nearly impossible to see a significant defection of people who will give up their iPads for the MS Surface.

LOL...

For a moment I thought the same thing. Great ironic title, OP!

lol .. I didn't see who posted the OP. He got me.

But seriously, Engadget is Scott's trusted technical source now? I'm worried about Scott. :D

I hope they come out with something good. That's how everybody else will get better and better. Choice is good.

-David

Thankfully, almost every tech site (who actually got to hold one) disagrees with you.

For a take on Surface from people who actually know tech, read this Engadget editorial:

http://www.engadget.com/2012/06/19/editorial-engadget-on-microsofts-new-surface-tablet-line/

That said, care to explain which parts have "fail" written all over it? Personal opinions please, not stuff cut and pasted from Apple sites.

To me, this has success written all over it, because they'll be doing the opposite of what Apple is trying - Apple is taking the best of iOS to the desktop, and Microsoft is taking the best of the desktop to a tablet. And with >90% of the market using Windows, there WILL be people who don't want to screw around with multiple systems. With Windows 8 sharing preferences between machines, Surface has the potential to be something big.

Though the decision to only sell directly will backfire, and I hope they rethink that soon.

I agree that for a lot of people this is looking very strong, apart from the distribution which is a very odd move. I don't know of many MS shops (are there 25 in the US yet?) and one of the big sales things is going to be to get people playing with these things. Quite how they're supposed to do that if their local store is in another state is a challenge MS are going to have to face soon. I was in an Apple store this week and someone who said they had always wanted a tablet was purchasing one based solely on the fact that she had a chance to play with one in store. However this is what the Metro interface is going to shine on, not traditional desktops where it seems out of place and slightly unnecessary for some people. I can see why MS is going all out for a standard GUI across all devices, I just don't think it should be forced on desktop/laptop end users.

The article states its price needs to be competitive with the iPad family. Wrong. It needs to be significantly cheaper for anyone to be swayed to buy one--and that's just for the people who have resisted taking a bite out of the fruit. IMO, it's going to be nearly impossible to see a significant defection of people who will give up their iPads for the MS Surface.

I agree. One reason this product is DOA is that MS is arrogant enough to believe they can charge as much for the Surface as Apple does for the iPad. But it isn't enough for an MS product to be competitive with an Apple product; the MS product needs to blow the Apple product out of the water in every way (including price), and MS simply can't pull that off.

To me, this has success written all over it, because they'll be doing the opposite of what Apple is trying - Apple is taking the best of iOS to the desktop, and Microsoft is taking the best of the desktop to a tablet. And with >90% of the market using Windows, there WILL be people who don't want to screw around with multiple systems. With Windows 8 sharing preferences between machines, Surface has the potential to be something big.

Let me put it this way: Windows Surface will have about as much impact as Windows Phone. (How's WP doing, btw?)

That said, care to explain which parts have "fail" written all over it? Personal opinions please, not stuff cut and pasted from Apple sites.

Sure, from your own link:


No battery life estimates.
No hard pricing details.
No RAM figures.
No CPU / GPU clock speeds.
No resolution details on the Windows RT model.


And of course, let's not forget this gem from your link:

Quite simply, the company just pulled a Zune

And this:

There's certainly no guarantee that the Surface designs will repeat the Zune's fate -- cannibalizing partners' market share, only to stagnate and fade away -- but witnessing the early signs of a repeat isn't exactly confidence-inspiring.

And there is the history of Microsoft to consider when thinking about the potential for success:

Still, the last time I invested in a device based purely on its potential for greatness, I bought a Windows Phone... and I'm still waiting for that to truly pan out. Before that, I picked up a Zune HD hopeful of the promise it held and... well, we all know how that ended up.

And this comment just gushes with hopes and potential:

Imagine the millions of consumers out there as they stand in their local store when Windows 8 launches. They've got the choice of an iPad, or Surface... or Surface Pro -- but you can't buy one and switch to the other, because they run different versions of Windows, except they look the same. Oh, and one has Office, but it's not the expensive one you're thinking about buying for work. Oh, and the pro version won't turn up for three months because Microsoft had to keep Dell happy... It's hardly rocket science to suggest that people will be turned off by such a complex proposition.

Overall I am not sure why you would link to that site with all of the above negativity about the Zune Tablet.

They have announced, not released, what is essentially vaporware. No specs, not specific release dates, no pricing, and two different operating systems. Like it or not to truly compete for a large chunk of the tablet market they need to blow us out of the water and significantly undercut Apple's price while producing a better product. THAT is why this has fail written all over it.

Sorry you fail to see the value in any website that covers Apple. Do you discount Flyertalk because the cover airlines?

To me, the following points stand out:

- MS have (finally) realised that user experience is the #1 thing. They're designing Windows 8 Metro for it, and if you take into account the Windows Phone OS, they want to keep the experience as consistent as possible - similar to how the iPhone and iPad are pretty much using the same OS, providing the same user experience.

- Even some people will see it that way, I don't think MS are designing this to be an iPad killer. I see it as replacing the netbook, sub-notebook or even the laptop market. If they fight the tablet market head on, i.e., take on Apple/iPad, MS will be making it very difficult for themselves.

- Therefore, they must price it lower than an iPad with similar spec and storage.

- Another big success factor will be the apps. MS have had a market place for years, even as far back as Windows 95/98 (?), how will that work? Will apps be run from the cloud? I don't mind spending a few bucks if my app can be used on multiple devices.

- A lot of excitement seems to be around the built-in keyboard in the case. If that is the most exciting feature, MS is in trouble.

Other questions I have:
- Will there be 3/4G models?
- Has anyone seen pictures/videos of it being used in Portrait mode?
- Do we really need a stylus?
- Can it play Diablo 3? :)

- Can it play Crysis? :)

Fixed it for ya. :D

(How's WP doing, btw?)

If they'd make a competitive phone I'd buy one. I have been trying to find a phone on par with the high end androids and have totally ZERO for options.

I want at least 1GB RAM, 1.5Ghz CPU, and ready for windows phone 8.

(from exblackberry/palm pre/treo/(and and wimo for a month or two) and current 2 android phone user)

There are plenty of good apps already that let an iPad edit or create office docs. Ultimately the real constraint to that is form factor, which is why I think apple have it right in positioning a tablet as a consumer of content and not a creator.

Notebooks and laptops are plenty light enough that it's no hassle to carry both. Most of us do exactly that when travelling for work and I can't see it changing. It's the ecosystem that determines success now and it's going to be hard to displace the credible lead apple have here.

I'll be the first to admit my frustration over the lack of details regarding battery, CPU, pricing and resolution. In my opinion it would have been better to announce this, once they were ready to ship the units. But these details are not significant enough to curb my enthusiasm in what Microsoft is trying to accomplish - a hybrid laptop/tablet form factor - making a tablet that is actually useful to me.

That being said, and not fully understanding their reasons for timing it the way they did - I can speak from experience, it would be very difficult to pinpoint battery consumption, on an OS that hasn't been finalized yet. Any changes made to the OS, and any changes made to device firmware can impact power consumption, so I don't blame them for not announcing that yet.

I recall reading in the news a few months back that Nokia released a firmware for one of their phones that reportedly tripled the battery life (http://www.fonearena.com/blog/47398/nokia-lumia-800-gets-firmware-update-battery-life-reportedly-tripled.html). With that type of potential variation, it would be near impossible to pinpoint battery life until software is final.

There's been a lot of interest expressed about the Surface Pro because it could run real software, real OS, etc. as well as convert to a tablet form factor.

But MS has been pushing these convertible tablet PCs for a decade now and they didn't sell. Wonder how big the market will be of people who want both the ability to use as tablet as well as run "heavy" software like Office, Photoshop, CAD, IDE, etc.

I understand the appeal of wanting one device for both mobile and desktop software. However, to run big desktop applications, that means the product will be heavier and thicker, so for instance, using in bed is pleasant experience.

Plus, we'll have to see the specs and price relative to laptops. If it's around $1000, that buys a lot of laptop. What if the Surface Pro is limited to 2 or 4 GB of RAM and only 64 or 128 GB of storage when laptops in the same price range has more of both, as well as faster processors?

There's been a lot of interest expressed about the Surface Pro because it could run real software, real OS, etc. as well as convert to a tablet form factor.

But MS has been pushing these convertible tablet PCs for a decade now and they didn't sell. Wonder how big the market will be of people who want both the ability to use as tablet as well as run "heavy" software like Office, Photoshop, CAD, IDE, etc.

I understand the appeal of wanting one device for both mobile and desktop software. However, to run big desktop applications, that means the product will be heavier and thicker, so for instance, using in bed is pleasant experience.

Plus, we'll have to see the specs and price relative to laptops. If it's around $1000, that buys a lot of laptop. What if the Surface Pro is limited to 2 or 4 GB of RAM and only 64 or 128 GB of storage when laptops in the same price range has more of both, as well as faster processors?I look at this a little differently -- a tablet that can sometimes function as laptop, as opposed to a laptop that is also a tablet. I have a Bluetooth keyboard for my tablet -- I don't use it very often, but when I need it, it's a life-saver. I've also got a docking station for my phone that turns it into a laptop. Again, not something I'd ever want to use as a primary computer, but handy as hell when I need it.

For those who say, get an ultrabook, it's not the same. My most common use of my tablet? Reading books. Ever try to read a book on a laptop? eBooks have been around for some time, but it's only since the proliferation of tablets and readers that they've really taken off. My second most common use? Watching television (Slingbox) or movies. Sure, you can do that on a laptop, but I find it's easier to use a tablet for this when I'm on the go. A laptop offers no advantage over a tablet with a keyboard for checking email and knocking out a quick response. And, as I said earlier, being able to run Win programs on this thing is a plus. For example, there is no play-against-the-computer Scrabble app for Android tablets. I found a way to use an old phone-based one, but it's a pain. However, I have a nifty Scrabble game on my desktop. :)

We don't usually see the Microsoft people drinking the Kool-Aid, that's usually the Apple folks.

In the past few days Microsoft has proven that they too can serve Kool-Aid.

With no real details out on the product I'm baffled how anybody can even begin to think it will or won't be useful for them.

And with just under 50% of the people out in computer land still running XP, the move to 8 will be as successful as the move from XP to everything that has come since will be.

The video for it on their website is a better advertisement for Bucky Balls than it is for a tablet. Their spec sheet says Actual size and weight of the device may vary due to configuration and manufacturing process so that's not apparently set yet either.

There are 25 stores listed, of which four are coming soon.

I can't picture them really believing they can sell this thing without stores in seven of the ten largest cities in the country.

Drink the Kool-Aid, buy it without ever having the chance to touch it since apparently they don't want you to handle it first.

I'm surprised about the demand for more details - when was the last time Apple actually released memory, clock speed or other detailed specs for the iPad? And no - "a magical CPU" is not a detail.

Microsoft outsource Surface tablets to Pegatron; expected prices above US$599
Monica Chen, Taipei; Joseph Tsai, DIGITIMES [Wednesday 20 June 2012]
Sources from notebook players have revealed that Microsoft's 10.6-inch Surface tablet PCs will be outsourced to Pegatron Technology for assembly; however, there is still not a firm estimate for order volumes.

The sources also estimated the end-market price of the Windows 8 Pro-based Surface tablet PC with Ivy Bridge processor to be at least above US$799, while the Windows RT-based model, featuring Nvidia's Tegra 3, will be priced above US$599.

The sources pointed out that the industrial design of Microsoft's Surface tablet PCs should attract consumers in the enterprise market, but their high prices are expected to become the biggest obstacle in the market.

The sources also pointed out that the Surface tablet PCs have successfully attracted the attention of consumers, but the strategy also means that Microsoft will directly compete against its downstream partners in the Windows-based tablet PC market. Since Microsoft is only expected to receive limited profits from its own-brand tablet PC products, while greatly offending its clients, the strategy that Microsoft has taken is rather risky.

With no real details out on the product I'm baffled how anybody can even begin to think it will or won't be useful for them.A tablet that runs Windows programs would be useful for me. No koolaid involved. As to whether this particular tablet will be useful remains to be seen.

And with just under 50% of the people out in computer land still running XP, the move to 8 will be as successful as the move from XP to everything that has come since will be.Is that figure accurate? Regardless, Win7 has proven itself to be a stable and reliable OS. As long as Win8 can run my Win7 programs, though I have no intention of upgrading my desktops, I would consider it a fine option for a tablet.

I'm surprised about the demand for more details - when was the last time Apple actually released memory, clock speed or other detailed specs for the iPad? And no - "a magical CPU" is not a detail.

People will line up outside stores to buy Apple products, regardless of the specs. MS products do not have that cachet (although MS acts like they do).

Is that figure accurate? Regardless, Win7 has proven itself to be a stable and reliable OS. As long as Win8 can run my Win7 programs, though I have no intention of upgrading my desktops, I would consider it a fine option for a tablet.


No, I just make up any numbers to prove a point :rolleyes:

According to the latest figures from Net Applications, Windows XP's finished off April with a 46.08 percent share of the desktop OS market, down from 55.84 percent one year prior and around 64 percent two years ago, but still well ahead of Windows 7 (38.67 percent), Windows Vista (7.32 percent), and various versions of Mac OS X, with the releases clinging to a 2.71 percent share of the market.

No, I just make up any numbers to prove a point :rolleyes:

According to the latest figures from Net Applications, Windows XP's finished off April with a 46.08 percent share of the desktop OS market, down from 55.84 percent one year prior and around 64 percent two years ago, but still well ahead of Windows 7 (38.67 percent), Windows Vista (7.32 percent), and various versions of Mac OS X, with the releases clinging to a 2.71 percent share of the market.The reason I asked was because it was surprising, that's all.

Apple has mentioned specs but not consistently. They've said 1 Ghz processor or they will say 4 times more resolution or 9 times the graphics power of the previous models.

They certainly mention battery life and price at every unveiling.

They sometimes highlight browser benchmarks as well. The iPad SOCs have consistently been among the fastest for that year.

But they emphasize relative speed or new features, some of which would imply a certain level of performance or specs.

The reason I asked was because it was surprising, that's all.


Betting nobody is more surprised month after month when the new numbers come out then the folks over at Microsoft.

When the number started going up again in January (and dropped again in February) they most have all had heart attacks.

Windows XP was officially no longer for sale with new machines in June of 2008. Considering it's still got as much of the market as it does must be killing them.

This device has promise. Obviously I have not seen one and don't know the details but what has been released about it shows some real potential....as long as it doesn't crash like the Windows OS on the phone did all the time. :)

There is still a large investment in Microsoft in the corporate world and if this can blend in nicely with that infrastructure and works as promised then they should do well with this device.

I think there is too much hanging on this for it not to work. PC market is on a down hill slide and if this indeed works then it might well help out their terrible phone market.

It will be a tough climb and they very well better get the apps. If they dont then they will only serve a small market with this new offering and that is not enough I dont think. MS took over the pc market by working with app developers and building from the small size companies up and if they are smart enough to work with application developers in this market and get them the tools they need to create apps on thise device they have potential with it.

I agree it wont be easy but I dont see anything about this that says fail all over it. There are some nice bullet points on this device...assuming they work.

I'm surprised about the demand for more details - when was the last time Apple actually released memory, clock speed or other detailed specs for the iPad? And no - "a magical CPU" is not a detail.

lol Scott, you're cracking me up. Microsoft == Apple now? hahahaha, and Engadget is your trusted technical source?

Microsoft is no Apple. Though they are trying to emulate them with the placement of their retail Microsoft stores near where a few Apple stores are located. I've seen the Microsoft store in Valley Fair .. it's ridiculous. I think having stores is a fine idea if it helps them make money, but emulating Apple and trying to locate within eye-shot of Apple stores is a ridiculous strategy, IMHO. I still remember how they used to ridicule Apple for their market share.

Back to the tablet .. I do hope it's great and it helps push the market and the competitors.

-David

They missed the key feature, a bluetooth. Many cars had docks for ipods but also had bluetooth, if the zune had it this would have allowed it to wireless connection to many car stereos and also allow people to use their bluetooth headsets with voip software on it, a great thing for the international traveler on the go, makes carrying a GSM unlocked phone as an option instead of almost required.

lol Scott, you're cracking me up. Microsoft == Apple now? hahahaha, and Engadget is your trusted technical source?

Microsoft is no Apple. Though they are trying to emulate them with the placement of their retail Microsoft stores near where a few Apple stores are located. I've seen the Microsoft store in Valley Fair .. it's ridiculous. I think having stores is a fine idea if it helps them make money, but emulating Apple and trying to locate within eye-shot of Apple stores is a ridiculous strategy, IMHO. I still remember how they used to ridicule Apple for their market share.

Back to the tablet .. I do hope it's great and it helps push the market and the competitors.

-David

Regarding MS stores -

Does anybody remember when Gateway had stores all over? They turned a fairly large company into a rather small one in short order. Apple can make their stores work because they have control over hardware, software, distribution, and any other aspect of the market for their products. Microsoft does not have any of these advantages. They have prospered immensely by using a totally different licensing model, and cannot change schemes in midstream (beg pardon for mixing metaphors). Every store they open will deplete their (admittedly vast) funds.

Retail computer sales is a cutthroat business. Remember CompUSA, Circuit City, and more local stores than you can shake a fist at? Heck, even Best Buy is hurting.

Is MS taking on their new marketing scheme in an attempt to be like Apple (which, BTW, makes 2/3 of its money from the iPhone), or because they can't generate any enthusiasm among resellers?

They missed the key feature, a bluetooth. Many cars had docks for ipods but also had bluetooth, if the zune had it this would have allowed it to wireless connection to many car stereos and also allow people to use their bluetooth headsets with voip software on it, a great thing for the international traveler on the go, makes carrying a GSM unlocked phone as an option instead of almost required.

They have not announced that it won't have bluetooth (don't believe they announced any wireless details yet) and there's way more than a few companies hoping it has it for healthcare, etc.

CNET:

Oliver Ahrens, Acer's senior VP and president for Europe, Middle East and Africa, told Reuters that Microsoft's strategy to take on Apple with the Surface tablet will fail.

Microsoft left its partners in the dark about its tablet, releasing it this week at a secretive, Apple-style press event. While it generated some buzz, there are still questions around price, battery life, and connectivity that may take away from its initial energy. And Ahren's comments probably don't help.
Related stories

"I don't think it will be successful because you cannot be a hardware player with two products," he said to Reuters. "Microsoft is working with two dozen PC vendors worldwide, including the local guys, whereas Apple is alone, it can more or less do what it wants. Microsoft is a component of a PC system. A very important component but still a component."

CNET:

Microsoft left its partners in the dark about its tablet

They might be partners in the pc biz but that doesnt mean they will be in the tablet biz.

One of the smart things that Apple does is they control the hardware and it is one of the annoying things about Google phones/tablets (and good at the same time :) )

MS has a history of selling very good hardware. Keyboards, mice etc, very high quality and many times market changers.

MS has a history of selling very good hardware. Keyboards, mice etc, very high quality and many times market changers.

Market changing keyboards?

Market changing mice?

Yeah, yeah, that's the ticket. The road to billions is paved with market changing keyboards and mice!!


ROFLMAO!! :D:D:D

Surface wont gain much traction on the consumer side because Microsoft doesn't have a real answer to iTunes. iPad users love iTunes, and as Apple allows more streaming and cloud content sharing across platforms (iPod, iPad, current AppleTV, rumored AppleTV) these consumers are going to be more locked in to the Apple universe. Xbox integration/leverage would be something I'd be looking at if I were Microsoft in this area. It could be their ace in the hole...

The Pro version will likely have success in the business place because it is more of a PC than a tablet. PC people want a MacBook Air like experience. I'd like to see price and how far it goes on a charge. If it is like the Win7 Slate today (2.5-4 hours), $1,200-1,400, more for the keyboard and dock, etc it wont supplant many iPads. But it will impact HP and Dell's PC business in the enterprise. If it hits a Macbook Air like 5-7 hours, comes in at under $1,000, and includes things like they keyboard then it will be a formidable competitor all around. But I doubt it. I think fully loaded its going to be around $1,600. As far is it being a hybird consumer/corporate device, I don't see it either. Corporate IT will immediately start worrying about viruses and malware, and they will lock that Slate Pro down with typical PC/IT policies. No local admin rights. No games. Maybe they will allow Windows iTunes. It won't work a hybrid business/consumer device. People will continue to use their iPads.

The RT one is the real question mark. They've already said it won't have the things that corporate IT wants (Active Directory integration, Kerberos, run today's version of Office, etc) but it will run (I assume) IE, and an arm varient of Office. Microsoft has a rumored version of an iOS office suite coming out, so other than IE, I'm not seeing what RT is bringing to the party (other than a pointer and a trackpad). So you've got a mix between the issues the non windows iOS iPad is facing in the enterprise today, with a Microsoft/windows bent on it. Consumers wont flock to it because there's no iTunes/iCloud equivalent. They need to get the xbox users over to the platform, ASAP.

At the end of the day, who says both the iPad and Surface won't be successful? Will a guy/gal taking a 14 hour flight to Tokyo bring their home iPad to watch movies and play games and a Slate Pro to work with on the flight (or when they arrive)? Will they be happier than carrying an iPad and the old school 15" laptop? Something tells me yes.

The flaw in that article is the assumption that iPad users love iTunes. I'm sure many do, but I think a great many do not. iCloud is a different story. I think most like iCloud. I know I do.

Market changing keyboards?

Market changing mice?

Yeah, yeah, that's the ticket. The road to billions is paved with market changing keyboards and mice!!


ROFLMAO!! :D:D:D

Stop trying to turn everything into some kind of bashing opportunity. Poster was clearly trying to explain that Microsoft DOES have a history of good hardware (along with some failures). Every company has its ups and downs in hardware. Xbox is the number one console in the world, they are still leaders in HID development. And yes, Zune was clearly a monumental disaster.

Market changing keyboards?

Market changing mice?

Yeah, yeah, that's the ticket. The road to billions is paved with market changing keyboards and mice!!


ROFLMAO!! :D:D:D
:rolleyes: Indeed it has for some, Logitech may have only made $71 million in profits last year, but they have a long history and certainly selling keyboards and mice is a road to billions.
MS has lot of profits from KB and mice as well. Laugh at it all you want, but enjoy typing everything on your software keyboard and touch screen, life without them would be different.

There is a sample of room for multiple players right there as well, Logitech and MS, compete in almost every category of HID, keyboards, mice, gaming pads, cameras, and both can make good profits from the hardware alone.

Stop trying to turn everything into some kind of bashing opportunity. Poster was clearly trying to explain that Microsoft DOES have a history of good hardware (along with some failures). Every company has its ups and downs in hardware. Xbox is the number one console in the world, they are still leaders in HID development. And yes, Zune was clearly a monumental disaster.

ScottC, it's to be expected from for apple fanatics. I mostly ignore and stick to the facts.

They make good peripherals but change the market?

Hardly. I think IBM was more influential with the little nipple thing and Apple pushed trackpads for the longest time, not to mention popularizing multitouch.

The MS ergonomic keyboards are nice but they didn't make everyone buy them so that didn't change the market.

Logitech pushed the wireless mice, laser mice with more precision, etc.

And Xbox is number 1 in the world? Maybe selling the most now, at the end of a generation. But Wii has to have a bigger installed base. Also think Sony is bigger in Europe, Asia and Japan but MS is probably more profitable.

They make good peripherals but change the market?

Hardly. I think IBM was more influential with the little nipple thing and Apple pushed trackpads for the longest time, not to mention popularizing multitouch.

The MS ergonomic keyboards are nice but they didn't make everyone buy them so that didn't change the market.

Logitech pushed the wireless mice, laser mice with more precision, etc.

And Xbox is number 1 in the world? Maybe selling the most now, at the end of a generation. But Wii has to have a bigger installed base. Also think Sony is bigger in Europe, Asia and Japan but MS is probably more profitable.

The Ms Natural keyboard, was a market changer at its time, for the next 3-4 years every computer that wasn't bargain basement, was coming with them. for a number of years in the wireless kb/mouse market only the MS or Logitech brands were any good at all, any of the clones drained batteries like they were water, or just worked so bad no one wanted to use them.

IBM with their eraserhead? That was a market changer? HA! There was a reason so many people hated them, they sucked. No other maker used them beyond market samples, IBM basically admitted defeat when they would put a trackpad and a magic eraser....
Several MS mice have been cloned rapidly, the wireless as well. No I am not claiming Logitech has no part (and in fact why I brought them up), was to say that there can be multiple companies bringing new, and good solutions to market.
I am not even getting into the gaming market, it is one I don't know or follow or care about at all. It is generally considered apart from the PC/Mac/Tablet/Laptop market anyway, even if using many of the same parts.
Anyway, not to get too far off topic, Microsoft regardless of what same may think, does have a history of quality, accepted by the market, hardware solutions.

They make good peripherals but change the market?


They only did little things like introduce the first optical mouse.

Inquiring minds would like to know. (Is the user battery serviceable?)

Everything is serviceable! Pay no attention to those silly stickers. :)

"My old man is a television repairman, he's got this ultimate set of tools. I can fix it."

They only did little things like introduce the first optical mouse.

lol, not even close. They were around long before Microsoft started selling them.

-David

lol, not even close. They were around long before Microsoft started selling them.

-David

They were actually the same year(1999) Agilent made it, for models that did not require a special grid patter mousepad to operate.

IntelliMouse Explorer with IntelliEye was the market leader in optimal mice in 1999, and was the major product, others followed.
Agilent also designed the first laser mouse and Logitech bought the exclusive rights to it for a period in 2004.

lol, not even close. They were around long before Microsoft started selling them.

-David

Oh come on - you knew what I meant. Yes, I had some piece of crap "optical" mouse on my Apple IIGS in the early 90's, but it needed a stupid mirrored grid pad. The first optical mouse us commoners could afford was from Microsoft and started replacing ball mice pretty quickly.

It appears this thread has taken on a life of its own.

My Apple experience is brief, an iPod and an IPhone. But if the iPad is esentially an iPhone with a bigger screen, I am reluctant to buy one.

There are so many reasons but just looking at the built-in app Messages is enough. Why can't I store more than 1,000 messages in my mailbox when I have many gigabytes of free space? If I can mark a message as "flagged" or "unread," why can't I also hold it to prevent it from being erased? And the edtitor for composing messages is downright horrible.

If there is a tablet with the build quality of an iPad that can run Word and Outlook, I'm very interested.

Stop trying to turn everything into some kind of bashing opportunity. Poster was clearly trying to explain that Microsoft DOES have a history of good hardware (along with some failures). Every company has its ups and downs in hardware. Xbox is the number one console in the world, they are still leaders in HID development. And yes, Zune was clearly a monumental disaster.

Sensitive much? LOL

We are in a thread talking about tablets that will, and do, sell for $500 - $1200 and we are told that $29 mice are an example of the quality job that Microsoft does in the hardware market? LOL It deserved to be mocked.

There are plenty of things I dislike about Apple, and iTunes on Windows comes to mind very quickly. But I think it is hilarious to watch people bash Apple and their products when they can do most of what they are looking for in non-Apple products, with very little effort. The same people who love to root their Android devices turn and complain that you can't do some of the same things on Apple products without Jailbreaking. Same thing, different device, but for Apple it is decried as a defect but celebrated when the same thing is done on an Android device. Despite what some think I am not an Apple fanboi, I am simply a critic of hypocrisy.

My Apple experience is brief, an iPod and an IPhone. But if the iPad is esentially an iPhone with a bigger screen, I am reluctant to buy one.

There are so many reasons but just looking at the built-in app Messages is enough. Why can't I store more than 1,000 messages in my mailbox when I have many gigabytes of free space? If I can mark a message as "flagged" or "unread," why can't I also hold it to prevent it from being erased? And the edtitor for composing messages is downright horrible.

If there is a tablet with the build quality of an iPad that can run Word and Outlook, I'm very interested.

http://www.bgr.com/2012/05/23/microsoft-office-ipad-android-launch/

Outlook Web Access on the iPad is pretty darn good.

Microsoft Surface blurs boundary between tablet and ultrabook - DigiTimes (http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20120625PD213.html)

With Microsoft and Asustek both having come out with tablet-like ultrabook designs that choose to adopt the new Ivy Bridge-based Core i7 processors, instead of processors from Clover Trail platform, Intel is unlikely to be able to demand its downstream partners follow its rules for separating the two product lines, the sources noted.