US Airways Dividend Miles - Itinerary Aircraft Changed from A330-300 to 767 - Envoy Product Dilemma

I wanted to get peoples input on what to do. I booked these award seats to take advanaage of the envoy seating at the off peak award redemption. Also, to try business class type of seating for our wedding anniversary. After researching on flyertalk it seemed that by Feb 2013 all Airbus 330-200 and 330-300 aircraft will be full converted. The only aircraft equipment, the 767, would have the old "hard product" (seats) but the "soft" product (service) would be upgraded.

With that in mind I chose carefully my pairings. When I booked this back in March I chose PHL to FCO using the A330-300 and a return of CDG to PHL using the A330-200 respectively to get the new Envoy product. I was happy.

Now, I just got notice that they changed the equipment on these flights including the flight times. The Philly to Rome is now a 767 and the Paris to Philly is A330-300. I am not too concerned about the Paris to Philly change, but am disappointed with the Philly to Rome change to a 767. That sucks.

I didn’t earn these points to travel on a weak envoy product on the 767.

So, I am at a crossroads. I have two choices:

1) Sit Tight - hopefully, they will change the aircraft and in the end I will be happy
2) Don't accept the changes - look and rebook for alternate cities with the aircraft I like. But, I run the risk of the aircraft changing again.

What would you do and are these equipment changes constant? Did anyone experience any equipment changes on your booked itinerary?

I wanted to get peoples input on what to do. I booked these award seats to take advanaage of the envoy seating at the off peak award redemption. Also, to try business class type of seating for our wedding anniversary. After researching on flyertalk it seemed that by Feb 2013 all Airbus 330-200 and 330-300 aircraft will be full converted. The only aircraft equipment, the 767, would have the old "hard product" (seats) but the "soft" product (service) would be upgraded.

With that in mind I chose carefully my pairings. When I booked this back in March I chose PHL to FCO using the A330-300 and a return of CDG to PHL using the A330-200 respectively to get the new Envoy product. I was happy.

Now, I just got notice that they changed the equipment on these flights including the flight times. The Philly to Rome is now a 767 and the Paris to Philly is A330-300. I am not too concerned about the Paris to Philly change, but am disappointed with the Philly to Rome change to a 767. That sucks.

I didn’t earn these points to travel on a weak envoy product on the 767.

So, I am at a crossroads. I have two choices:

1) Sit Tight - hopefully, they will change the aircraft and in the end I will be happy
2) Don't accept the changes - look and rebook for alternate cities with the aircraft I like. But, I run the risk of the aircraft changing again.

What would you do and are these equipment changes constant? Did anyone experience any equipment changes on your booked itinerary?

... from my point of view. Because, this time, it's happening to you. For you, it's a crisis. Especially for the overnight flight, the difference between the pod lie-flat product and the 767 push-your-seat-back product.

The missing piece of information here is how far out are you from these flights? Does this look unique to the days you chose, or do these seem to be changes in aircraft use over a longer period? (I'd check myself -- I'm especially interested in the A330-200 to A330-300 regression on CDG-PHL, but I'm not sure of the time frame.)

I was not aware that change of aircraft was a sufficient excuse for re-booking, but maybe it is. If you can, I'd choose your option 2 -- find another way to do the real Envoy suites headed over to Europe.

These are for off peak travel redemption in Feb 2013. Still a long ways out for future aircraft changes. The aircraft changes are coupled with flight time changes. So, the reservation is asking me if I want to accept or not accept because of the flight time changes I assume. I have yet to call into US Airways to ask about my options.

I can certainly let the reservation sit until the schedule is more defined, say in the fall/winter and switch to a pairing with the aircraft I like. But, I run the risk of availability.

Assuming, I can change without fees, changing seems like the right thing to do if I want to experience the "real" Envoy product.

I just dont know how often these aircraft changes are to make a decision like that.

These are for off peak travel redemption in Feb 2013. Still a long ways out for future aircraft changes. The aircraft changes are coupled with flight time changes. So, the reservation is asking me if I want to accept or not accept because of the flight time changes I assume. I have yet to call into US Airways to ask about my options.

I can certainly let the reservation sit until the schedule is more defined, say in the fall/winter and switch to a pairing with the aircraft I like. But, I run the risk of availability.

Assuming, I can change without fees, changing seems like the right thing to do if I want to experience the "real" Envoy product.

I just dont know how often these aircraft changes are to make a decision like that.

I would avoid the outbound flight on the 767 at all costs.

However, the return is not a problem, as the entire US Airways A330-200 and A330-300 aircraft fleet now feature the new Envoy product, and in fact, since the A330-300s were just redone, the Envoy cabin and condition of the seats will be better than that of the A330-200s.

These are for off peak travel redemption in Feb 2013. Still a long ways out for future aircraft changes. The aircraft changes are coupled with flight time changes. So, the reservation is asking me if I want to accept or not accept because of the flight time changes I assume. I have yet to call into US Airways to ask about my options.

I can certainly let the reservation sit until the schedule is more defined, say in the fall/winter and switch to a pairing with the aircraft I like. But, I run the risk of availability.

Assuming, I can change without fees, changing seems like the right thing to do if I want to experience the "real" Envoy product.

I just dont know how often these aircraft changes are to make a decision like that.

I am also holding off-peak Envoys (PHL-CDG, CDG-PHL) for Feb. 2013 and, yep, sure enough, they have switched the plane from an A330-200 to an A330-300. I'm not on those flights every month, but I'm on them a lot of months, including the last couple of Februaries, and it has been a while since they have been using the 300, except for the occasional swap-out.

The fact that they are scheduling 300s instead of 200s for this route so far ahead makes me wonder if it has to do with US shelving the CLT-CDG route over the winter, and wanting a few more seats (including eight more Envoy seats) to and from PHL. In which case this change may hold.

Although I do prefer the A330-200 to the A330-300 in Y, that's not your problem. Your problem is the 767. The schedule change is a way out. But is there still alternative inventory (off-peak awards) left on other routes that you could book now? That's going to be the problem. You may have to push them a bit on this ....

I would avoid the outbound flight on the 767 at all costs.

However, the return is not a problem, as the entire US Airways A330-200 and A330-300 aircraft fleet now feature the new Envoy product, and in fact, since the A330-300s were just redone, the Envoy cabin and condition of the seats will be better than that of the A330-200s.

I do not have a problem with the inbound flight as it's staying the A330 family. It's the outbound flight of concern. I think it's safe to say, I do not want to be stuck on the 767 on the longer leg. Just trying to figure out if this aircraft change will probably be permanent. If so, when should I make the itinerary change? Now or later when the schedule is more set.

I am also holding off-peak Envoys (PHL-CDG, CDG-PHL) for Feb. 2013 and, yep, sure enough, they have switched the plane from an A330-200 to an A330-300. I'm not on those flights every month, but I'm on them a lot of months, including the last couple of Februaries, and it has been a while since they have been using the 300, except for the occasional swap-out.

The fact that they are scheduling 300s instead of 200s for this route so far ahead makes me wonder if it has to do with US shelving the CLT-CDG route over the winter, and wanting a few more seats (including eight more Envoy seats) to and from PHL. In which case this change may hold.

Although I do prefer the A330-200 to the A330-300 in Y, that's not your problem. Your problem is the 767. The schedule change is a way out. But is there still alternative inventory (off-peak awards) left on other routes that you could book now? That's going to be the problem. You may have to push them a bit on this ....

I will give them a call and see what my options are on this. Assuming they allow me to rebook without extra miles or cost, what is the current A330 (200 or 300) airport pairings at the moment to find a return flight?

I wanted to get peoples input on what to do. I booked these award seats to take advanaage of the envoy seating at the off peak award redemption. Also, to try business class type of seating for our wedding anniversary. After researching on flyertalk it seemed that by Feb 2013 all Airbus 330-200 and 330-300 aircraft will be full converted. The only aircraft equipment, the 767, would have the old "hard product" (seats) but the "soft" product (service) would be upgraded.

With that in mind I chose carefully my pairings. When I booked this back in March I chose PHL to FCO using the A330-300 and a return of CDG to PHL using the A330-200 respectively to get the new Envoy product. I was happy.

Now, I just got notice that they changed the equipment on these flights including the flight times. The Philly to Rome is now a 767 and the Paris to Philly is A330-300. I am not too concerned about the Paris to Philly change, but am disappointed with the Philly to Rome change to a 767. That sucks.

I didn’t earn these points to travel on a weak envoy product on the 767.

So, I am at a crossroads. I have two choices:

1) Sit Tight - hopefully, they will change the aircraft and in the end I will be happy
2) Don't accept the changes - look and rebook for alternate cities with the aircraft I like. But, I run the risk of the aircraft changing again.

What would you do and are these equipment changes constant? Did anyone experience any equipment changes on your booked itinerary?

*The A330-300's are in fact the Envoy Suites, the last one came back from cabin refit recently.

*The 767 J hard product is angled lie-flat, not the cradle seats like what are on the 752's or old config UA. Still very narrow, not terribly comfortable for sleeping, and not work the extra miles IMO...

I don't blame you for not wanting to spend your miles on the 762. Rome isn't a huge destination from Philly in the winter and it's doubtful we'll see 332's/333's on that route until next spring. My advice? Maybe see about switching your outbound to CDG (that I can almost guarantee you will not be replaced with a 762 save for something going MX last minute) and then get a cheap flight on Easyjet or Ryanair to FCO.

I will give them a call and see what my options are on this. Assuming they allow me to rebook without extra miles or cost, what is the current A330 (200 or 300) airport pairings at the moment to find a return flight?

Well, as you now know better than the rest of us, something is up with the US fleet in February, and the best thing to do is to check city by city.

But,

Since you are coming back from CDG
and RTs CDG-FCO in Feb on Alitalia are only $196 or so at moment
and because we now know that there are 8 extra Envoy pods per day on the PHL-CDG route relative to what there were when, say, I was booking awards a few months back ....


... I'd start with PHL-CDG.

UPDATE: I called customer service and even though the notice said their was a schedule change it, it is technically not a schedule change but an aircraft change. With that being said, they said, I have the option of redepositing my miles and refunding my fees at no charge and rebooking. There is no grace period/time limit to made a decision. I can call anytime to accept or not accept the change.

So, at this point I think I am going to research the schedule availability and find a better city pairing with the A330 to get out of the 767. Then, redeposit these miles and book the new pairing. Sucks, but I dont think I have a choice if I want out of the 767 Envoy product.

Well, as you now know better than the rest of us, something is up with the US fleet in February, and the best thing to do is to check city by city.

But,

Since you are coming back from CDG
and RTs CDG-FCO in Feb on Alitalia are only $196 or so at moment
and because we now know that there are 8 extra Envoy pods per day on the PHL-CDG route relative to what there were when, say, I was booking awards a few months back ....


... I'd start with PHL-CDG.

We are not very experienced European travelers but we just booked an Envoy award ticket from Phoenix to Paris only because the aircraft to Rome was the 767. We have not been to either Paris or Rome. We like the idea of taking that additional flight from Paris to Rome. Could anyone recommend how much time to have between arriving in Paris and leaving for Rome? We are scheduled to arrive in Paris at 8 am, checking no bags, there is a 10 am departure to Rome.

Thank you

We are not very experienced European travelers but we just booked an Envoy award ticket from Phoenix to Paris only because the aircraft to Rome was the 767. We have not been to either Paris or Rome. We like the idea of taking that additional flight from Paris to Rome. Could anyone recommend how much time to have between arriving in Paris and leaving for Rome? We are scheduled to arrive in Paris at 8 am, checking no bags, there is a 10 am departure to Rome.

Thank you

I see that you are checking no bags, which means that you are more experienced (European) travelers than you want to admit! ;)

This is do-able, but do you want to do it? The minuses seem to me as follows:

Usually US 754 is in to CDG on or before 7:55a arrival time, but occasionally it is late.
The line at immigration has not been bad lately, but if you are in the back and slow off the plane, then all you need is one big plane ahead of you from Malaysia or Singapore .... [unless you are in Envoy, in which case there is a special no-wait line]
US lands at Aerogare 1 but flights to FCO (Rome) are typically from Aerogare 2 (AF, for example), in which case you need to go down to the basement and find the little CDGVAL automatic train. It's not hard to do, and it's fast, but it's just one more step, and when you are jetlagged ....
Connection is probably not part of *A (Star Alliance) and hence in case you are late it may be harder to get them to rebook you (although I could be wrong about this)


The last item is the biggest sticking point in my thinking. Otherwise, planes from CDG to FCO are frequent, and you could always just get on the next one. If I (you) had some reassurance or more specific knowledge on this last point, I'd (advise you to) give it a shot.

... I'd start with PHL-CDG.

Personally, I'd start with PHL-MUC. I've transferred through MUC a few times, and it is a fantastic experience. If you do happen to have time, the LH Senator lounges are simply fantastic. If you're checking bags, it is free on LH, and you'd get priority boarding. My last LH flight I asked nicely and was moved to exit row.

All this assuming US remains in *A until your trip ;)

My experiences at CDG were far from stellar.

Personally, I'd start with PHL-MUC. I've transferred through MUC a few times, and it is a fantastic experience. If you do happen to have time, the LH Senator lounges are simply fantastic. If you're checking bags, it is free on LH, and you'd get priority boarding. My last LH flight I asked nicely and was moved to exit row.

All this assuming US remains in *A until your trip ;)

My experiences at CDG were far from stellar.

These are all good points, and one might add that with an Envoy suite "in hand," the added overnight flight time (to MUC as opposed to CDG) is actually a plus -- more time to sleep !

My recommendation of CDG, other than the high likelihood of some type of A330, was based on two things. First, the OP had originally scheduled an open-jaw returning from CDG, so I was inferring that OP wanted to be in Paris at some point (possibly a false inference!) Second, since the whole scheme was based on Off-peak Envoy pricing, and these seats are hard to come by, I thought holding onto the one in hand CDG-PHL made the most sense. I agree that one could still book PHL-MUC-FCO returning CDG-PHL, but the one-ways FCO-CDG are more expensive than the RTs CDG-FCO-CDG.

These are all good points, and one might add that with an Envoy suite "in hand," the added overnight flight time (to MUC as opposed to CDG) is actually a plus -- more time to sleep !

My recommendation of CDG, other than the high likelihood of some type of A330, was based on two things. First, the OP had originally scheduled an open-jaw returning from CDG, so I was inferring that OP wanted to be in Paris at some point (possibly a false inference!) Second, since the whole scheme was based on Off-peak Envoy pricing, and these seats are hard to come by, I thought holding onto the one in hand CDG-PHL made the most sense. I agree that one could still book PHL-MUC-FCO returning CDG-PHL, but the one-ways FCO-CDG are more expensive than the RTs CDG-FCO-CDG.

I apologize Biggie Fries. I should have explained more why FCO and CDG. But, you are correct to assume that I indeed want to be in Paris at some point. I also want to be in FCO. We are revisiting places from our honeymoon for our anniversary. Our original plan was to fly into Rome stay a few days and then train it to Paris stopping along the way at Florence, Milan and Zurich. Finally, ending up in Paris for a few days as well. It was all perfect until the aircraft change put a blip in the plans. But going to Paris and Rome is essential for this trip. The open jaw option made everything easier in terms of travel.

After talking to the customer service rep, I can just rebook the whole itinerary, rebook the outbound or cancel the whole thing without cost.

Unfortunately, CDG is the only outbound city with A330 availability for my date from PHL. MUC, FRA, LHR and MAD dont have availability for my dates

Looks like my only choice is to change everything from a roundtrip CDG or keep the itinerary. I am leaning towards rebooking it as a roundtrip from CDG as soon as possible as seats are limited.

The open jaw was a nice option, but I will survive and find a way to Rome. Sigh.

Thanks everyone for their tips and suggestions.

We are not very experienced European travelers but we just booked an Envoy award ticket from Phoenix to Paris only because the aircraft to Rome was the 767. We have not been to either Paris or Rome. We like the idea of taking that additional flight from Paris to Rome. Could anyone recommend how much time to have between arriving in Paris and leaving for Rome? We are scheduled to arrive in Paris at 8 am, checking no bags, there is a 10 am departure to Rome.

Thank you

Don't book the 10am. Since it will be a separate ticket, you won't have any protection in case your inbound to CDG is delayed. You will also have to obtain a boarding pass in Paris (unless you do it online), which means having to be at the other airline's check-in counter an hour prior. An hour to get off the aircraft, clear customs and change terminals at CDG is cutting it close to begin with, nevermind if the US flight arrives late. To be safe, I would probably consider heading into Paris for lunch and then booking a late afternoon flight, so that you have the opportunity to skip lunch should there be a delay and not have it impact your onward travel. A side benefit to this is that you could consider looking at flights to Rome from alternate airports to save $$. Easyjet for example has a departure from Orly at 5:45pm that looks to be around $65 for sample dates I checked in February. Just be concious of tighter carryon restrictions.

I wanted to get peoples input on what to do. I booked these award seats to take advanaage of the envoy seating at the off peak award redemption.....

Wow...I just came here looking for advice about almost the identical issue and found thread!

In my case I booked Envoy saver from Upstate, NY to FCO via PHL for Feb.

I just saw the change in both directions from A330 to B767 and wasn't sure how to handle it...

Looks like I will ask them to cancel and redeposit and I will try to see where else I can go and still get saver Envoy on an A330.

Is there a list of which European cities will have A330 service this winter?

I've been to Frankfurt before so I was really looking forward to going to Rome... How is Munich in winter?

I've been skipping over this thread for a few days thinking it didn't pertain to me...wrong. Only booked a brief trip with Mrs. PittDoc in Feb PHL-FCO RT b/c the low-saver on Envoy suites made travel back and forth rather easy and (dare I say) pleasurable. I'll probably redeposit.

What's left at low-saver on A330, anywhere?

Disappointing to see this happen since it makes future planning on the A330 a bit of a roulette. Glad this wasn't a serious trip with a revenue seat. I'd be super P-O'd.

Looks like I will ask them to cancel and redeposit and I will try to see where else I can go and still get saver Envoy on an A330.

I'd reverse this. Find award seats on a A330 route and then, only then, cancel out the FCO trip. While there is no question that the Suites on the A330 are by far the best in the fleet, the 767 is not soooo terrible in Envoy that I would skip a cheap trip to Rome because I could not have Suites. And FYI (and of course YMMV) but I was in MUC two years ago in winter and FCO this last winter (both times in the week between Christmas and New Years) and I'll take Rome any day - sunny and mid-50's F each day while MUC was mostly sunny but wicked cold!

Wow...I just came here looking for advice about almost the identical issue and found thread!

In my case I booked Envoy saver from Upstate, NY to FCO via PHL for Feb.

I just saw the change in both directions from A330 to B767 and wasn't sure how to handle it...

Looks like I will ask them to cancel and redeposit and I will try to see where else I can go and still get saver Envoy on an A330.

Is there a list of which European cities will have A330 service this winter?

I've been to Frankfurt before so I was really looking forward to going to Rome... How is Munich in winter?

Madrid had A330 service in january. It was cold as heck though.

I connected to Portugal on TAP and had a lovely vacation in Porto. It was cool but not unbearably cold like Madrid.

I've been skipping over this thread for a few days thinking it didn't pertain to me...wrong. Only booked a brief trip with Mrs. PittDoc in Feb PHL-FCO RT b/c the low-saver on Envoy suites made travel back and forth rather easy and (dare I say) pleasurable. I'll probably redeposit.

What's left at low-saver on A330, anywhere?

Disappointing to see this happen since it makes future planning on the A330 a bit of a roulette. Glad this wasn't a serious trip with a revenue seat. I'd be super P-O'd.

Not questioning your logic since I've never flown on US to Europe, but are the Envoy seats on the 767 really that bad? Assuming you have the US Airways mastercard, you're holding a round-trip business class ticket to Europe for only 55k miles. Delta would charge 60k in coach to put that in perspective.

I understand comfort is important, particularly on the outbound when you are trying to sleep, but is it really worth changing your destination over (or adding additional travel)? Maybe it is, but I'd be curious what about the 767 Envoy seat is so terrible.

I was waiting for ZRH availability off-peak, but it never opened up so I booked MUC instead. I later found out that was on the A330 whereas ZRH was a 767. Excited to try the new product but wouldn't try to re-book if there was an equipment change, unless I'm missing something...?

Not questioning your logic since I've never flown on US to Europe, but are the Envoy seats on the 767 really that bad? Assuming you have the US Airways mastercard, you're holding a round-trip business class ticket to Europe for only 55k miles. Delta would charge 60k in coach to put that in perspective.

They are not bad. However, in comparison to the A330 Envoy Suites they are inferior. IMO, ANY of the US Envoy products (and yes I am including the 757 ex-A330 seats) is worth a 55k roundtrip. It's quite a deal if you can snag them and make it work for your schedule.

http://www.airliners.net/photo/US-Airways/Boeing-767-2B7-ER/1663731/&sid=44b8e5fd55e5ce15fbb0d72ed540bd33

I'd reverse this. Find award seats on a A330 route and then, only then, cancel out the FCO trip. While there is no question that the Suites on the A330 are by far the best in the fleet, the 767 is not soooo terrible in Envoy that I would skip a cheap trip to Rome because I could not have Suites. And FYI (and of course YMMV) but I was in MUC two years ago in winter and FCO this last winter (both times in the week between Christmas and New Years) and I'll take Rome any day - sunny and mid-50's F each day while MUC was mostly sunny but wicked cold!

I ended up changing my itinerary to a roundtrip to/from CDG as it was the only city with an A330 that had my dates available. But, I am definitely not skipping Rome, no way! I have two options 1) I already researched prior to rebooking and found Veuling Airlines from Paris to Rome for only $72 one way or transfer some Avios to Iberia and get the same flight for 7,500 points +$20 in fees. 2) Take the overnight train to from Paris to Rome via advice from www.seat61.com I might do this as my return leg from Rome to Paris I am taking the train too, but a more scenic snail pace for site seeing. I havent decided what to do yet, but will update.

Yes, I can stay on the 767 and make my life easier with the openjaw but, I want to experience the Envoy pods. I am sure the old Envoys are nice, but I have been saving up points just for this.

Not questioning your logic since I've never flown on US to Europe, but are the Envoy seats on the 767 really that bad? Assuming you have the US Airways mastercard, you're holding a round-trip business class ticket to Europe for only 55k miles. Delta would charge 60k in coach to put that in perspective.

I understand comfort is important, particularly on the outbound when you are trying to sleep, but is it really worth changing your destination over (or adding additional travel)? Maybe it is, but I'd be curious what about the 767 Envoy seat is so terrible.

I was waiting for ZRH availability off-peak, but it never opened up so I booked MUC instead. I later found out that was on the A330 whereas ZRH was a 767. Excited to try the new product but wouldn't try to re-book if there was an equipment change, unless I'm missing something...?

From the threads and trip reports on here there is a huge difference on the hard product. You are talking about a reclining seat versus a lie flat seat plus more. In terms of the service I heard its the same. But, for me, the lie flat is the game changer. You can find videos on youtube of Envoy class seating in both aircraft. Just put in the search "Envoy A330" and "Envoy 767" to see for yourself the difference in the seats.

I do agree the redemption is still a bargain, but if you are getting a bargain why not go all the way with the best available product for that redemption? The beauty of Europe is that there are many entry points or gateways. You dont have to sacrifice visiting a city because of the aircraft change. You can easily go to Zurich from Munich via train or low cost carrier. Yes, its extra money and time, but the pods are worth it in my mind.

I do agree the redemption is still a bargain, but if you are getting a bargain why not go all the way with the best available product for that redemption? The beauty of Europe is that there are many entry points or gateways. You dont have to sacrifice visiting a city because of the aircraft change. You can easily go to Zurich from Munich via train or low cost carrier. Yes, its extra money and time, but the pods are worth it in my mind.

Agreed. In addition, with the pods I sleep on the way over, with the recliners I don't. That means at least a one day difference in length of trip. For this short hop it matters. Returning in the recliner is OK but I find even sitting on the 767 is worse than domestic F seat. Yes, still way better than transatlantic Y, which I've only done once (UA E+). Never again, so not even worth comparing or considering.

Yes, still way better than transatlantic Y, which I've only done once (UA E+). Never again, so not even worth comparing or considering.

See! You've been spoiled! ;) My first international trip was DCA-JFK-NRT-HKG and all in coach. At the time, it was hell. In retrospect, it gave me some perspective. I can handle transatlantic in Y if I get decent seats (exit row) but obviously prefer Envoy or Business. I won't even consider crossing the Pacific unless in Business or better. That was a promise I made to myself in January of 1989 in the smoke-filled rear cabin of a JAL 747. :eek:

Save some cash, book in coach, pop an Ambien to force yourself to sleep and bam, you're in your destination, saved some money (or miles) and your wide awake to start your European adventure :-)