India-based Airlines - Jet in advanced talks with *A and Skyteam alliance

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http://m.timesofindia.com/PDATOI/articleshow/14212498.cms

TOI articles should be taken with a grain of salt since they interpret things differently than a logical person would do - for example if.NG said we're not joining OW, TOI would publish they are joining *A and Skyteam.

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http://m.timesofindia.com/PDATOI/articleshow/14212498.cms

TOI articles should be taken with a grain of salt since they interpret things differently than a logical person would do - for example if.NG said we're not joining OW, TOI would publish they are joining *A and Skyteam.

I don't see any discrepency between TOI report and other sources on this issue.

So whats the deal with Jet cancelling JFK from Sept?
They are keeping Newark but maybe adding another US destination (ORD, IAH)

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So whats the deal with Jet cancelling JFK from Sept?
They are keeping Newark but maybe adding another US destination (ORD, IAH)

That would point to *A. Maybe AI and GoI have given up on *A and LH.

So whats the deal with Jet cancelling JFK from Sept?
They are keeping Newark but maybe adding another US destination (ORD, IAH)

Brussels Airlines recently launched BRU-JFK. There really isn't space for 2 carriers on the route. 9W will probably move the JFK flight to ORD or IAD, and codeshare with SN to keep "serving" JFK.

This has absolutely no relevance whatsoever to the alliance decision.

Star or skyteam....either way, it seems wishful thinking on behalf of Jet.

This seems like naresh goyal's waking up from a dream after pillow talk abiut hrts fyture with his wife and forgetting that dreams are not real.

Star or skyteam....either way, it seems wishful thinking on behalf of Jet.
Why?

Yeah, I'm going to put that up there with any/all of the following

* We're going to fly to Munich / Canton / Manila / Tel Aviv / Amserdam / Jakarta / Frankfurt / Saigon / Nairobi / Manchester / San Francisco /Dar es Salaam / Paris / Hanoi / Rome / Lumumbashi. Flights are set and everything is confirmed. Any minute now...

* We're moving our EuroHub to Munich / Amsterdam / Frankfurt / Barcelona / Paris / Bratislava / Lilongwe. It's all set and everything's confirmed. Any minute now....

* We're going to (re)turn into a high quality airline. Actually, a medium quality airline (it's best to stick to goals that don't need divine intervention!). Everything's ready. Any minute now...

* We're going to do BA / Etihad / SQ / Sabena / Thai / Etihad / SAA / Emirates /Cathay / Oman Air / Virgin / Qatar / THY ka chutty. Everything's all lined up. Any minute now...

Given a set of circumstances, and information, some things are more probable than others. Haphazard set of all probable/possible permutations is neither logical, nor funny.

Why?

because they have been making grandiose statements since the beginning of time.

and once again, all the noise comes from Jet's side. They are like a delusional girl who thinks shes far prettier than she really is. They seem to think that airline alliances will be desperate to have them but in reality, Star chose Air India and Oneworld chose Kingfisher.

They seem to think that airline alliances will be desperate to have them but in reality, Star chose Air India and Oneworld chose Kingfisher.
With the current mess both AI and IT are in.. Jet is definitely the prettiest girl around.

They seem to think that airline alliances will be desperate to have them but in reality, Star chose Air India and Oneworld chose Kingfisher.
Are you sure about this? It is not the view most people had.
Most of us thought that *A really wanted 9W, but GoI got jealous and instead pushed for AI to join *A.
And it was just convenient for IT to join OW since they had a close relationship with BA.

Given a set of circumstances, and information, some things are more probable than others. Haphazard set of all probable/possible permutations is neither logical, nor funny.
^^
Again, thank you. Related to my post on another thread:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/india-based-airlines/1348915-rumor-jet-airways-route-cancellations-4.html#post18775774

Are you sure about this? It is not the view most people had.
Most of us thought that *A really wanted 9W, but GoI got jealous and instead pushed for AI to join *A.
And it was just convenient for IT to join OW since they had a close relationship with BA.

Erm, not quite. *A wanted the Indian market - they displayed little preference between any of the Indian carriers.

They decided to go after AI, because they figured that having government backing is very beneficial to the airline and its alliance. This is when LH started talking about fantasies like A380 to DEL and whatnot.

GoI didn't do the initial pushing. However, after *A had committed to AI, then GoI did get rather pushy...

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Are you sure about this? It is not the view most people had.
Most of us thought that *A really wanted 9W, but GoI got jealous and instead pushed for AI to join *A.
And it was just convenient for IT to join OW since they had a close relationship with BA.

Erm, not quite. *A wanted the Indian market - they displayed little preference between any of the Indian carriers.

They decided to go after AI, because they figured that having government backing is very beneficial to the airline and its alliance. This is when LH started talking about fantasies like A380 to DEL and whatnot.

GoI didn't do the initial pushing. However, after *A had committed to AI, then GoI did get rather pushy...

That sounds about right. There is no doubt in my mind that Jet overplayed irs cards, and so did Lufthansa, which was insttumental in blocking AI's entry into *A a year ago.
It was foolish for Jet to have thought that. mini, nay micro hub at Brussels with 6 outbound and six imbound flights ensuted an invotation to a party where the big boys and girls play. Given the overwhelming preference shown for *A by

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Are you sure about this? It is not the view most people had.
Most of us thought that *A really wanted 9W, but GoI got jealous and instead pushed for AI to join *A.
And it was just convenient for IT to join OW since they had a close relationship with BA.

Erm, not quite. *A wanted the Indian market - they displayed little preference between any of the Indian carriers.

They decided to go after AI, because they figured that having government backing is very beneficial to the airline and its alliance. This is when LH started talking about fantasies like A380 to DEL and whatnot.

GoI didn't do the initial pushing. However, after *A had committed to AI, then GoI did get rather pushy...

That sounds about right. There is no doubt in my mind that Jet overplayed irs cards, and so did Lufthansa, which was insttumental in blocking AI's entry into *A a year ago.
It was foolish for Jet to have thought that. mini, nay micro hub at Brussels with 6 outbound and six imbound flights ensuted an invotation to a party where the big boys and girls play. Given the overwhelming preference shown for *A by Jet flyers, at least on this forum, Jet is not to be blamed entirely for this delusion. But LH should have known better.
To a vast majority of *A flyers it matters little, which airline join, as long as one does, and to a vast majority of Jet flyers, it matters little which alliance it joins as long as it joins one ASAP.

That sounds about right. There is no doubt in my mind that Jet overplayed irs cards, and so did Lufthansa, which was insttumental in blocking AI's entry into *A a year ago.

Everybody overplayed their cards - LH/*A, AI/GoI, 9W. Everyone

LH/*A thought they were being brilliant for recruiting AI, an airline which was in no condition to join an alliance at that point. Add in the complications of the IC merger, and delays were guaranteed. LH/*A not expecting that was a mistake...

Then, AI/GoI seemed to think that LH/*A would be willing to wait forever while they get their act together. That was a mistake.

9W went through phases of thinking that not joining an alliance was for the best, to actively courting *A and ST, to non-aligned all over again.

When LH/*A finally realized that this AI stuff was taking too long, they decided to go after 9W. They set what they thought was an unattainable deadline, so that they could recruit 9W. They never thought that AI would actually get their act together and meet the deadline. That was a miscalculation by *A.

Then, LH/*A didn't expect AI/GoI to actually make a fuss about 9W joining. That was a mistake.

AI/GoI overestimated how much LH wanted the A380 slots and the Indian market - they never expected *A to actually throw them.

9W continued to play hard to get when they could be joining an alliance and getting first mover advantage. To this day, they still haven't decided which alliance to join, if they are going to join one at all.

With this whole LH/*A/AI/GoI/9W fiasco, the real winners were BA/IT/OW. But that got screwed up when IT went down the drain.

So in the end, the winner is the casino. As always. A lesson in why playing cards is a bad idea. ;)

They are like a delusional girl who thinks shes far prettier than she really is. They seem to think that airline alliances will be desperate to have them but in reality, Star chose Air India and Oneworld chose Kingfisher.

With the current mess both AI and IT are in.. Jet is definitely the prettiest girl around.

andhon mein kana raja (amongst the blind, the cross-eyed is the king)....

jet, by default, is the prettiest girl around....no alliance is going to touch kingfisher or ai at the moment....

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They are like a delusional girl who thinks shes far prettier than she really is. They seem to think that airline alliances will be desperate to have them but in reality, Star chose Air India and Oneworld chose Kingfisher.

With the current mess both AI and IT are in.. Jet is definitely the prettiest girl around.

andhon mein kana raja (amongst the blind, the cross-eyed is the king)....

jet, by default, is the prettiest girl around....no alliance is going to touch kingfisher or ai at the moment....

English is so inadequate to convey the idea faithfully.
Andhon mein kani rani rhymes better and more appropriate since are talking about the prettiest girl.
On the other hand when a suitor is drunk, any one will look pretty. ;)

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Jet's the slutty girl, who sleeps with everyone but commits to no one.

Until she realises the (supposedly) ugly girls have rocks on their fingers and she has nothing. And then she gets a case of the me-toos.

Eventually, she may be buried in a Y-shaped coffin (on account of her inability to keep her legs crossed).

To a vast majority of *A flyers it matters little, which airline join, as long as one does, and to a vast majority of Jet flyers, it matters little which alliance it joins as long as it joins one ASAP.
Nail on the head.

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Eventually, she may be buried in a Y-shaped coffin (on account of her inability to keep her legs crossed).
Haahahahaha.. That's one of the best puns I've read in a long time!

Haahahahaha.. That's one of the best puns I've read in a long time!
It's true though !

Comparatively, Kingfisher is the clueless, ditzy girl who teased and teased but is still almost virginally clueless all these years later, even if she has a ring around her finger.

And Air India is the fat chick. No one really wants to bang her, but she still gets some play. A result of simple desperation and a way of getting to daddy's riches.

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Here we go again, making lewd remarks, and some finding it funny.
It's a clever lewd remark that has no relevance to the discussion is NOT a pun. One using English skills as a determinat of quality, should know.

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It's a clever lewd remark that has no relevance to the discussion is NOT a pun.
The context of the remark + "Y" being a popular alphabet in aviation with respect to economy seats is what makes it a pun.

"The pun, also called paronomasia, is a form of word play which suggests two or more meanings, by exploiting multiple meanings of words, or of similar-sounding words, for an intended humorous or rhetorical effect."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pun

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It's a clever lewd remark that has no relevance to the discussion is NOT a pun.
The context of the remark + "Y" being a popular alphabet in aviation with respect to economy seats is what makes it a pun.

"The pun, also called paronomasia, is a form of word play which suggests two or more meanings, by exploiting multiple meanings of words, or of similar-sounding words, for an intended humorous or rhetorical effect."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pun

I would rather not argue about that.
Lets talk about Jet's talks with the two alliances.

[SIZE=1]Lets talk about Jet's talks with the two alliances.

i agree....all these remarks are getting a bit tiring now....

Well, Jet at one point were spoilt for choice. They could have picked any one of the three alliances and become members with no trouble at all. But they decided they were too good to stoop to the lows of alliance membership.

Then Kingfisher went Oneworld and Air India went Star. That's when Jet got a case of the me-toos.

And now they've decided - for some bizarre reason - it's Star or nothing. That's too bad and Jet can suck it.


On the flip side, there's Skyteam, which is a perfectly good alliance. It might not be #1 on many folks' list for their pet airline (whichever that may be) to join, but in many ways, it's ideal for Jet. What customers want is not necessarily what's best for a business.

Skyteam have the smallest presence in India of the three alliances, which means Jet will automatically be in a stronger position than they ever can in the other two.

Star and Oneworld also already have a strong presence on SE Asia and between Europe and Australia; Skyteam don't. That's another big gap that Jet can help fill, to everyone's benefit.

Additionally, AF and DL seem to be better partners to work with than most, with constant route swaps and the like, the extent to which we haven't seen with others.

To top it off, getting into a JV with a couple of the world's largest airlines can only mean good things. Certainly miles ahead of what AI and IT will ever have with their (fantasy) alliances - it's quite possible they will remain regional feeders for the vast networks of LH and BA respectively, if either ever manage to get in.

I don't, for example, see Star much more out of Jet than they do already. I cannot also, on the face of it, see Lufthansa giving up anything to anyone; they do not cede an inch. At least poor IT didn't try to get into Star. If they had tried and succeeded, LH would have swallowed them whole by now.

I am still at a loss as to why Jet didn't take up AF-KL-DL on the JV offer. That is actually a pretty good deal - much better than simple alliance membership - and it would have done them a world of good already. Or are they still holding out for everything and risking ending up with nothing?

Other than the point about SkyTeam having a gap in SEA, your comments appear reasonable and I have made them in the past when discussing which alliance AI or 9W should join or which Indian carrier *A should pick. I suppose you were busy taking cheap shots at 9W. You were so devastated with the Rs 50 fee that firing salvo after salvo is all you could think do.
:D
LH will try to squeeze every drop of blood from any Indian carrier that joins *A. The Indian member will need GoI protection which AI will get from GoI. Unless LH is held back, Indian consumers will end up making LH richer in return for inferior service.

Well, Jet at one point were spoilt for choice. They could have picked any one of the three alliances and become members with no trouble at all. But they decided they were too good to stoop to the lows of alliance membership.

Then Kingfisher went Oneworld and Air India went Star. That's when Jet got a case of the me-toos.

And now they've decided - for some bizarre reason - it's Star or nothing. That's too bad and Jet can suck it.

On the flip side, there's Skyteam, which is a perfectly good alliance. It might not be #1 on many folks' list for their pet airline (whichever that may be) to join, but in many ways, it's ideal for Jet. What customers want is not necessarily what's best for a business. I asked for a discussion. Not a thesis. But this is a good start. ;)

Skyteam have the smallest presence in India of the three alliances, which means Jet will automatically be in a stronger position than they ever can in the other two.
*A clearly serves more Indian cities. Armed with an Indian partner, LH will "fight" to protect its rice bowl in India and the Indian partner will be the loser unless GoI fights back. The lead that * has established in serving a number of Indian cities from Europe and SEA network, will be gone when Skyteam inducts GA and an Indian partner, which ever is willing and able to.
Star and Oneworld also already have a strong presence on SE Asia and between Europe and Australia; Skyteam don't. That's another big gap that Jet can help fill, to everyone's benefit.[/QUTOE]
That's not true at all. The gap is there only between India and SEA, not between SEA and the world.

SKyTeam has a big hole in SEA from India. Overall, SkyTeam is no way less strong than *A. Delta and it's predecessor NW dominated SEA since the end of the second world war. Now, with China Southern, China Eastern, China Airlines, Korean and Vietnam Airlines, Skyteam very well placed in Asia overall.
One World may have lead for travel between Europe, and some points such as HKG/SIN and Australia, but over all SkyTeam is much further ahead of OneWorld, and not behind, if not ahead of *A.
[QUOTE=jasepl;18787560]Additionally, AF and DL seem to be better partners to work with than most, with constant route swaps and the like, the extent to which we haven't seen with others.
When member of a partnership dominates, there is little give and take.
I don't know if DL-AF will be better partners to work with.
To top it off, getting into a JV with a couple of the world's largest airlines can only mean good things. Certainly miles ahead of what AI and IT will ever have with their (fantasy) alliances - it's quite possible they will remain regional feeders for the vast networks of LH and BA respectively, if either ever manage to get in. I have made similar points before.

I don't, for example, see Star much more out of Jet than they do already. I cannot also, on the face of it, see Lufthansa giving up anything to anyone; they do not cede an inch. At least poor IT didn't try to get into Star. If they had tried and succeeded, LH would have swallowed them whole by now.
No disagreement here a mentioned above.
I am still at a loss as to why Jet didn't take up AF-KL-DL on the JV offer. That is actually a pretty good deal - much better than simple alliance membership - and it would have done them a world of good already. Or are they still holding out for everything and risking ending up with nothing?I can only make a conjecture. Maybe LH was keeping Jet Airways on hold with promises, planning to hit GoI with its demand for 9w at an opportune moment.

Armed with an Indian partner, LH will "fight" to protect its rice bowl in India
I thought rice bowl generally referred to the orient. Do you mean curry bowl and not rice bowl? :D :D

I thought rice bowl generally referred to the orient. Do you mean curry bowl and not rice bowl? :D :D

Rice bowl does remind one of orient. But protecting your rice bowl is used in the sense of protecting your narrow interests in a large organisation with competing interests. If you want to use a culture specific culture, I will allow you to use "beer mug", bratwurst, liverwurst, hamburger, or frankfurter. Will you be happier with frankfurter? :D

I was on 9W 31 KUL - MAA earlier today. I was generally chatting with the captain for a few minutes when he stepped out and asked him what is happening with Jet these days. He said that slots at MUC are being negotiated and it is likely that services from BOM and DEL will be announced soon. This probably fits into the *A rumour.

I was on 9W 31 KUL - MAA earlier today. I was generally chatting with the captain for a few minutes when he stepped out and asked him what is happening with Jet these days. He said that slots at MUC are being negotiated and it is likely that services from BOM and DEL will be announced soon. This probably fits into the *A rumour.

Frontline staff are usually no more knowledgeable about this kind of stuff than somebody who watches the news - it's more likely that somebody forwarded him that ToI article than he actually has some real info from management.

Crew rumors, whether galley talk or flight crew, are often great fun to listen to. But predictions about what management is going to do are often way off.

Frontline staff are usually no more knowledgeable about this kind of stuff than somebody who watches the news - it's more likely that somebody forwarded him that ToI article than he actually has some real info from management.

Crew rumors, whether galley talk or flight crew, are often great fun to listen to. But predictions about what management is going to do are often way off.I concur - this is what reality ends up to be...