Miles & More (Lufthansa, Austrian, Swiss, and other partners) - No more access to contract lounges for FTL from 1 Sep '12

Well, the next enhancement has arrived. FTLs will no longer have access to contract lounges from 01st September. Thank you LH.

I am really pleased to have begun shifting my business towards BA after the spring changes. Will hit BA Silver with my next r/t flight and you know what? Overall, I actually like BA better as well!

Announcement only available in German (in the My Frequent Traveler Lounge area of the M & M website) so far:



Frequent Traveller: Änderung der Zugangsregelung für Vertragslounges
14.06.2012
Frequent Traveller, die in der Economy Class auf einem von den Star Alliance Fluggesellschaften durchgeführten Flug reisen, können ihren Aufenthalt am Flughafen in einer der Austrian Airlines, Lufthansa oder SWISS Business Lounges sowie den eigenen Lounges der Miles & More Partner, Brussels Airlines, Luxair* und LOT Polish Airline genießen.

Die bisherigen Vertragslounges stehen darüber hinaus ab dem 1. September 2012 leider nicht mehr zur Verfügung.

Weitere Informationen dazu erhalten Sie unter
http://www.miles-and-more.com/online/portal/mam/rowr/program/loungefinder
*nur in Verbindung mit einem durch Austrian Airlines, Lufthansa, Luxair oder SWISS durchgeführten Flug

Where does this effect? The lovely bmi lounge in LHR is already out of the system. Other than there, I know LH uses 3rd part lounges in MAN and BHX. Is there anywhere else?

Where does this effect? The lovely bmi lounge in LHR is already out of the system. Other than there, I know LH uses 3rd part lounges in MAN and BHX. Is there anywhere else?


Quite a few:
http://www.vielfliegertreff.de/miles-more/38173-uebersicht-loungezugang-als-ftl.html

After the HON cull it seems to be time to focus on those pesty FTLs.
SENs will be next in line ...

There are quite a lot of lounges - especially when flying LX or OS!

LH was quite strict with that in the past.

I remember the times where you had access with a guest in a lot of lounges.

So better make a cheap *G or switch the alliance.

BA Sliver is quite good as it allows alliance wide lounge access with a guest. It is more to LH-SEN than LH-FTL. As AB is using more and more contracted lounges it may not be such a clever move.

Does this mean LH will drag LX down to the same level as far as lounge access by FTL is concerned? :td:

LX customers will suffer the most.

What a stupid enhancement.... that was one of the most significant reasons to have FTL status when you start outside of DE...

Must be too big a strain on the bottom line....:td:

What a stupid enhancement.... that was one of the most significant reasons to have FTL status when you start outside of DE...



I am really angry. There is no other benefits....

I am really angry. There is no other benefits....

LH's strategy is to annoy each and every customer group as much as possible.:p

LH's strategy is to annoy each and every customer group as much as possible.:p

^ Got that right!

Wow. Another major blow.

That is a substantial list of lounges to have taken off the list.

Aegean will be bleeding from all the star holds migrating over there.

I couldn't care less. Most of the lounges taken of the list is for me worth close to nothing anyway. And if you really have to, you could buy yourself quite cheap in at most of them. At least in CEE/EE. The ones that are worth visiting is still there...

LH's strategy is to annoy each and every customer group as much as possible.:p

Exactly!

LH management is doing a great job for other airlines/alliances...

LH want to increase revenue, but they have a funny way of going about it, basically forcing current customers to other airlines! If you were based in any of the regions the access to local contract lounges was one of the main incentives to fly LH. AF-KL offer the same 30 segment promo as FTL. Shooting themselves in the foot methinks!

On that note, why is it (typically) airlines think they are going to drive demand by annoying their customers? It is a very risky strategy.

AF-KL offer the same 30 segment promo as FTL. Shooting themselves in the foot methinks!


And with 30 segments you qualify for Flying Blue Gold that gives you access to all lounges, including a companion, +75% bonus miles!

With all the M&M enhancements I already started flying again on Skyteam to try to maintain my gold status.

It's simple, LH has no interest in Y pax.

It's simple, LH has no interest in Y pax.
LH has no interest in Y pax who fly frequently. LH only wants them to fly to holiday destinations for €99 return once or twice a year. :rolleyes:

I couldn't care less. Most of the lounges taken of the list is for me worth close to nothing anyway. And if you really have to, you could buy yourself quite cheap in at most of them. At least in CEE/EE. The ones that are worth visiting is still there...

You probably could work for Franz.

But that's not how loyalty programs work psychologically. It's not about being able to get lounge access through a paid program. People will choose LH group over other airlines because they feel treated well and made important, or because they get perks like lounge access that other people don't get (or have to pay for). Franz has a history of only looking at the cost of loyalty programs and not the benefits (look at his performance at Deutsche Bahn).

Saying that LH is trying to annoy each and every customer group is head on in my opinion.

HTB.

Saying that LH is trying to annoy each and every customer group is head on in my opinion.HTB.

I wonder what's in store for the SEN's in September...

But really ridiculous. One of the things that has made me decide to fly LH/LX intra europe was the lounge access. Now it will be just based on fare and time, the miles were already useless.

Quite a few:
http://www.vielfliegertreff.de/miles-more/38173-uebersicht-loungezugang-als-ftl.html

After the HON cull it seems to be time to focus on those pesty FTLs.
SENs will be next in line ...

This is actualy part of the HON cull.
HON will be culled.
Companion will lose SEN status and drop to FTL.
No lounge for Companion. It all fits together in a master plan.

:td: This is bad news. The main reason I started flying LH was lounge access as FTL

I am really angry. There is no other benefits....

LH's strategy is to annoy each and every customer group as much as possible.:p

:td: This is bad news. The main reason I started flying LH was lounge access as FTL

I am ever so disappointed by this move from M&M.... Most of my business travel is contained within Europe in Y. With the odd long haul flight in C. The lounge access as a FTL is one of the key reasons I stayed loyal to all *A flights, as it really does make a huge difference when travelling on business....

The worst part of it all is that I am based in ZRH, so LX pax will get a really bad deal....

It's great when you stay loyal to them, but are they loyal in return? I don't think so!

Disgraceful behaviour!

:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

There goes the primary benefit of FTL! As a largely intra-europe Y flyer i seriously need to decide what I'll do for the rest of the year. KLM might be getting my favor, purely due to this.

Clearly a cost cutting measure, as LH is paying a fee for each traveller entering contract lounges (and I expect the fee is very high given the limited competition contract lounges face).

As many have said, it hugely reduces the attractiveness of LH/LX to FTL's for European flights. However, LH must be calculating that business travellers (with limited booking options and high yield tickets) will still travel, and the change will impact FTL's making leisure trips (i.e. where they have a choice) on low yield fares where the cost of lounge access is likely a big chunk of the ticket price.

LH's strategy is to annoy each and every customer group as much as possible.:p

They must have understood the German word "Vertrieb" wrongly.

They must have understood the German word "Vertrieb" wrongly.

I think they should hire this company:
http://www.lhconsulting.com/en/services/alr/alr-overview.html

I think they should hire this company:
http://www.lhconsulting.com/en/services/alr/alr-overview.html
+1 :D

3 references, 2 in 2006 and 1 in 2008. They suck at this :p

..SENs will be next in line ...
Bah! What could they possibly take from SENs at this stage?

Bah! What could they possibly take from SENs at this stage?

Companion award, Award waitlist, Seat reservation in Y intra-europe, exit row reservation (and sell these instead).. just to name a few!

Companion award, Award waitlist, Seat reservation in Y intra-europe, exit row reservation (and sell these instead).. just to name a few!

Don't give them ideas.

SENs will be next in line ...

Wait a minute, I thought it was our turn already. By moving Z fares to P fares and making Z 150% re-qualifying for SENdom will become so much harder.

Wait a minute, I thought it was our turn already. By moving Z fares to P fares and making Z 150% re-qualifying for SENdom will become so much harder.

I'm sure there's room for more! :p

But I am still not at all sure what a Contract Lounge is. Does this mean that we lose access to all lounges full stop? Or just to lounges such as those operated by Servisair in the UK (which are totally crap anyway)? Why will ZRH based passengers be so hard hit? Does that mean we will no longer be able to use the SWISS lounges?

Here's the announcement in English (dated 06.06.12!)

Frequent Travellers: access change regulation to Contract Lounges

Frequent Travellers travelling in Economy Class on a flight operated by a Star Alliance carrier can enjoy their time at the airport in an Austrian Airlines, Lufthansa or SWISS Business Lounge, as well as, in the lounges of Miles & More partners: Brussels Airlines, Luxair* and LOT Polish Airlines. Unfortunately, access to the present Contract Lounges will no longer be possible as of 1 September 2012.

*Only in connection with a flight operated by Austrian Airlines, Lufthansa, Luxair, SWISS

So it seems clear FTLs can still access lounges operated by LH, LX, OS, SN, LO and LG when flying on *A carriers. I also don't understand why ZRH based FTLs will be so hard hit. FTLs who fly on longhaul LX in Y may be hit if they lose lounge access in many outstations.

So in the UK there are no lounges to use if flying LH, OS or LX in Y as FTL?

I have switched my monthly flights to Germany to Germanwings anyway. As LH have been, so too have I become completely cost focused. Yes, sitting at the gate waiting rather than in a lounge is a bit of a drag, but the additional 150 euros I have in my pocket does compensate somewhat.

One thing, the 4U flights can be credited to Mile & More, and count towards M&M FTL - but what is the point? There are no benefits when flying 4U and just a handful of miles.

So in the UK there are no lounges to use if flying LH, OS or LX in Y as FTL?
That seems to be the case.

It would be interesting to see if there will be a Business Lounge accessible by FTL when LH moves to the new T2 in LHR along with other *A carriers. No doubt there will be a substantial *G lounge given the number of *A carriers using the terminal but will there be separate LH lounges? CDG has fewer LH flights than LHR but there are LH Senator and Business lounges.

There might be a need for more than one lounge in T2 but I have a feeling that LH has given up on the UK and LHR in particular.

That seems to be the case.

It would be interesting to see if there will be a Business Lounge accessible by FTL when LH moves to the new T2 in LHR along with other *A carriers. No doubt there will be a substantial *G lounge given the number of *A carriers using the terminal but will there be separate LH lounges? CDG has fewer LH flights than LHR but there are LH Senator and Business lounges.

There might be a need for more than one lounge in T2 but I have a feeling that LH has given up on the UK and LHR in particular.

What markets has LH NOT given up on?
Italy which was the 2nd largest market in Europe for LH they have definitely given up on.
LHR given up on.
Many parts of SE Asia given up on.
Australia given up on.
N. America together with UA where they are head-to-head against IAG?
L. America they have very little presence at the moment.
Guangzhou, 2nd busiest airport in China- given up on.
Middle East- inferior product and higher prices by far.
N. Africa- barely present.
Secondary German airports- given up on.

I sure hope their business ex-France and MUC/FRA are good enough to support a world carrier.

What markets has LH NOT given up on?
Italy which was the 2nd largest market in Europe for LH they have definitely given up on.
LHR given up on.
Many parts of SE Asia given up on.
Australia given up on.
N. America together with UA where they are head-to-head against IAG?
L. America they have very little presence at the moment.
Guangzhou, 2nd busiest airport in China- given up on.
Middle East- inferior product and higher prices by far.
N. Africa- barely present.
Secondary German airports- given up on.

I sure hope their business ex-France and MUC/FRA are good enough to support a world carrier.
Maybe the new strategy is not to be a world carrier but a German carrier, focusing on German corporate clients catering from FRA/ MUC hubs, in which case rest of us are all expendable riff raffs...

Maybe the new strategy is not to be a world carrier but a German carrier, focusing on German corporate clients catering from FRA/ MUC hubs, in which case rest of us are all expendable riff raffs...

Perhaps. The continuing discussion about fuel costs seems a bit much given that prices are at a 5 year low in terms of trend. I have not noticed radical decreases in fuel surcharges however (which should be illegal).

Maybe the new strategy is not to be a world carrier but a German carrier, focusing on German corporate clients catering from FRA/ MUC hubs, in which case rest of us are all expendable riff raffs...
The lowering of SEN qualification from 130k miles to 100k miles in Germany might be one evidence of this theory.

Companion award, Award waitlist, Seat reservation in Y intra-europe, exit row reservation (and sell these instead).. just to name a few!
Seat reservation in Y is not a perk and the exit row benefit never worked for me.

So yes, it hinges on the waitlist and the companion awards.

Seat reservation in Y is not a perk and the exit row benefit never worked for me.


Well, since my company rarely books into B or Y, intra-europe seat reservation is indeed a perk and a quite important one for me actually. Same goes for exit row, which has always worked for me except on the A346 with the special exit row regulations.

Well, since my company rarely books into B or Y, intra-europe seat reservation is indeed a perk and a quite important one for me actually. Same goes for exit row, which has always worked for me except on the A346 with the special exit row regulations.
You seem to prep yourself for the age when there will be no more such privileges :eek: ...

You seem to prep yourself for the age when there will be no more such privileges :eek: ...

Given that TXL is my home airport, I am indeed preparing for the worst with "direct4u" on the horizon.. :rolleyes:

So in the UK there are no lounges to use if flying LH, OS or LX in Y as FTL?

While we don't know yet how it will play out, LO provides lounge access to FTL at any of their destinations - maybe they'll continue to do so. UK is limited to LHR though.

Very annoying enhancement as a MAN based FTL, especially as the general seating areas in T1 are very dull.
The very good network of lounges (as far as *S tier in M&M) was the main draw for me to go for FTL last year. Now this will be mostly wiped away outside the M&M members home/hub airports :mad: .

Maybe it's time to give BA a proper look? Although I feel the best days of FFPs are pretty much eroded away now for all but the mega high yearly mileage earners.

Perhaps I will just buy PriorityPass and fly whatever airline is best priced/convenient in the future. Ah, wait a moment.... That's usually LH. Bugger.

You probably could could for Franz.

But that's not how loyalty programs work psychologically. It's not about being able to get lounge access through a paid program. People will choose LH group over other airlines because they feel treated well and made important, or because they get perks like lounge access that other people don't get (or have to pay for). Franz has a history of only looking at the cost of loyalty programs and not the benefits (look at his performance at Deutsche Bahn).

Saying that LH is trying to annoy each and every customer group is head on in my opinion.

HTB.

Well, If I would have worked for Franz, I would have at least offered a yearly subscription payed with points for the contract lounges. You make 3 categories. Either by geography or by standards. Then you pay between 15-30 000 points a year depending on your needs. I agree that it's easy for someone traveling mainly from the LH/OS/LO/LX bases to don't care so much, but if you're stuck somewhere else in Europe I see that as a FTL'er you should be given the change to have lounge access without paying.

Is the lounge access privilege really that important to Lufthansa customers? I am not asking about lounge accesses in general but to us LH elites.

I transited twice in FRA the last two weeks and I could not find a single seat inside the lounge. I tried to steal some food and then wander out in the terminal but the LD told me that I could not take food out of the club. So I left it on her desk. On the second transit they let me have the food.

Food worth maybe 2.5 Euros (8 Euros at an airport, I give that) ... how can that be that important? The lounges are IMO de facto nonoperational. Every filthy US Airways shed with dry crackers offers at least a seat and power outlets. And no shower I get there too...

So I would not pay EUR 200 for the annual SEN lair access privilege and I wonder how it occupies so much of FT.

I transited twice in FRA the last two weeks and I could not find a single seat inside the lounge.

Not had an issue finding seats for the entire family for quite a while so this is weeroesque again.

Not had an issue finding seats for the entire family for quite a while so this is weeroesque again.
That's because you travel on One World. Don't cheat!

Companion award, Award waitlist, Seat reservation in Y intra-europe, exit row reservation (and sell these instead).. just to name a few!

Add to that: qualification EVERY year....

Is the lounge access privilege really that important to Lufthansa customers? I am not asking about lounge accesses in general but to us LH elites.

I transited twice in FRA the last two weeks and I could not find a single seat inside the lounge. I tried to steal some food and then wander out in the terminal but the LD told me that I could not take food out of the club. So I left it on her desk. On the second transit they let me have the food.

Food worth maybe 2.5 Euros (8 Euros at an airport, I give that) ... how can that be that important? The lounges are IMO de facto nonoperational. Every filthy US Airways shed with dry crackers offers at least a seat and power outlets. And no shower I get there too...

So I would not pay EUR 200 for the annual SEN lair access privilege and I wonder how it occupies so much of FT.

I agree, weero. If there is no HON, EK Business, EY Business lounge around, I typically do not even bother visiting the lounge (esp. in Europe and the U.S.). At most airports there are much nicer places (restaurants, cafes, etc) to spend your time waiting.

If I were LH (or any other airline) I would scale down FTL benefits to inexpensive stuff (like seat reservations in Y and award miles) and focus my benefits on serious travellers, i.e. Golds and above. That is where customer addiction typically starts and "gimmicks" are rewarded with serious travel-dollars.

So the LH lounge in DME is gone for the FTLs.. sigh. 10-15 daily flights are obviously not enough. No PP lougne there either..

So the LH lounge in DME is gone for the FTLs.. sigh. 10-15 daily flights are obviously not enough. No PP lougne there either..
30+ daily flights ex-LHR are not enough. :td:

I think these are great news for Aegean:

- yesterday Greece made it to EURO2012 quarter-finals;) (poor Poles)
- now Aegean will get quite a few new FF members, who would want to take advantage of A3*G (for 20k miles)

If I were LH (or any other airline) I would scale down FTL benefits to inexpensive stuff (like seat reservations in Y and award miles) and focus my benefits on serious travellers, i.e. Golds and above.

Well somebody could travel MAN-FRA-MAN 5 days a week in the cheapest fare class earning 125 miles each way and still not hit SEN/GOLD. I would consider them to be a serious traveler regardless of what is spent on the ticket. It would make sense for LH to look after such a customer at both airports in my opinion.

Exactly... And probably most SEN have once started as an FTL.

Is the lounge access privilege really that important to Lufthansa customers? I am not asking about lounge accesses in general but to us LH elites.

I transited twice in FRA the last two weeks and I could not find a single seat inside the lounge. I tried to steal some food and then wander out in the terminal but the LD told me that I could not take food out of the club. So I left it on her desk. On the second transit they let me have the food.

Food worth maybe 2.5 Euros (8 Euros at an airport, I give that) ... how can that be that important? The lounges are IMO de facto nonoperational. Every filthy US Airways shed with dry crackers offers at least a seat and power outlets. And no shower I get there too...

So I would not pay EUR 200 for the annual SEN lair access privilege and I wonder how it occupies so much of FT.
I usually avoid FRA like plague, but had to fly via FRA last week as I wanted to be in MAD at 9 am and by taking the last LH flight out of MOW I could get some sleep at the airport Sheraton and take the early morning flight to MAD rather than risk another industrial dispute disruption with IB. The Schengen SEN lounge and biz lounge were full, several empty chairs had personal effects like briefcases, jackets etc. and I was told that there is no place in either lounge. as luck would have it there was a 90 min delay. I was told by the lounge warden that I have to be patient, watch out for someone leaving and grab that seat (she said this very seriously, not sure if it was meant as a joke). I ended up walking around the terminal for two hours and getting some exercise...

I usually avoid FRA like plague, but had to fly via FRA last week as I wanted to be in MAD at 9 am and by taking the last LH flight out of MOW I could get some sleep at the airport Sheraton and take the early morning flight to MAD rather than risk another industrial dispute disruption with IB. The Schengen SEN lounge and biz lounge were full, several empty chairs had personal effects like briefcases, jackets etc. and I was told that there is no place in either lounge. as luck would have it there was a 90 min delay. I was told by the lounge warden that I have to be patient, watch out for someone leaving and grab that seat (she said this very seriously, not sure if it was meant as a joke). I ended up walking around the terminal for two hours and getting some exercise...

Agree on the wandering the terminal area in most airports. The lounges in Europe in general seem to be heading the direction of the USA and Canada- where it is not worth it to go to the lounge as usually that is the busiest place in the entire airport.

I give a large exception to the FCLs at FRA and the F/HON lounge at ZRH- with these exceptions generally in Europe I just stay in the terminal with the exception of VCE which has the excellent Marco Polo Club available for any flight departure including Easyjet etc.

This does not help FTLs based outside M&M airlines' home countries, but let's give FRA a chance and wait until the new Pier A-Plus opens later this year. There are believed to be 2 new Business and 2 new Senator lounges in Pier A-Plus along the same design as the lounges by C gates (direct boarding from the lounges) plus a new First Class Lounge. Lounge situation in FRA can only improve. ;)

I also don't understand why ZRH based FTLs will be so hard hit.

Based on contracts made on the good old Qualiflyer-days, FTLs with an LX-ticket still have lounge access at almost all destinations.

The fact is, that a big group of LX-passengers will lose a major privilege from one day to the next.

LH-FTLs are less affected, as LH had a smaller number of contracts with third party-lounges. The biggest impact for LH-FTLs will come when their flights will be switched from LH mainline to Germanwings.

But the biggest advantage of the aviation is the free choice of airlines. I think this will become easyer for a lot of FTLs.

BTW: HONs have received their slap in the face earlier this year, now it's the FTL's turn. Let's see who will be the next in line for SCORE's september-festival... hm... maybe the SENs? :eek:

Based on contracts made on the good old Qualiflyer-days, FTLs with an LX-ticket still have lounge access at almost all destinations.

The fact is, that a big group of LX-passengers will lose a major privilege from one day to the next.

LH-FTLs are less affected, as LH had a smaller number of contracts with third party-lounges. The biggest impact for LH-FTLs will come when their flights will be switched from LH mainline to Germanwings.
Yes, I realise LX passengers who are FTL in Y will be affected but my point was it's not just FTL based in ZRH who will be affected. Many people who are not based in M&M carriers' home countries still choose to fly on LH/LX as they offer more options and their price is competitive. Lounge access at longhaul destinations has been a benefit to FTLs flying in LX Y. They will in future lose lounge access at their home airport as well as at their destination.

along the same design as the lounges by C gates (direct boarding from the lounges) plus a new First Class Lounge. Lounge situation in FRA can only improve. ;)

There's no way they will be able to do direct boarding from the new lounges by the publically existing floor plans of A+ and the root area. However they will be large and conveniantly located lounges just after passing through security (and the annoying walk through shopping area).

There's no way they will be able to do direct boarding from the new lounges by the publically existing floor plans of A+ and the root area. However they will be large and conveniantly located lounges just after passing through security (and the annoying walk through shopping area).
You are right. According to this plan (http://www.media-frankfurt.de/fileadmin/Inhalte/Downloads/Frankfurt_Airport/Weitere_Downloads/preview_flugsteigA_gallery_walk.pdf) (p.4 of PDF) it looks like the lounges will be in the central area at the start of the pier where the existing Pier A and the new Pier A-Plus meet.

You are right. According to this plan (http://www.media-frankfurt.de/fileadmin/Inhalte/Downloads/Frankfurt_Airport/Weitere_Downloads/preview_flugsteigA_gallery_walk.pdf) (p.4 of PDF) it looks like the lounges will be in the central area at the start of the pier where the existing Pier A and the new Pier A-Plus meet.

If they keep the existing lounges also open near A26 then it is a very good plan.

So.. I really have to think hard of any reason to get/maintain the FTL instead of some other *A Gold that is as easy to get as the LH silver.. :confused:

Since I was a FTL for a long long time, I can't recall any contract lounge that was accessible to FTLs outside of LH/OS lounges. When LX joined a few years ago this changed but still you could count the number of destinations added on your fingers plus it was only if you were flying OS or LX. We we make a list of airports that will now drop off the radar for a FTL? That would make the situation clearer... @:-)

We we make a list of airports that will now drop off the radar for a FTL? That would make the situation clearer... @:-)

LX: In alphabetic order (of the city):

AMS
BKK
BCN
BEG
BHX
BUD
OTP
DAR
DEL
DUB
FLR
HKG
IST
JNB
LIS
LHR (already gone)
LUX
LYS
MAD
AGP
MAN
MIA
DME
MCT
NBO
EWR
NCE
PMI
PRG
FCO
GRU
St. Petersburg
TLV
NRT
Valencia
VCE

Souce: http://www.swiss.com/web/DE/fly_swiss/swiss_lounges/Pages/lounges_worldwide.aspx

Searching here: http://www.austrian.com/Info/AtTheAirport/LoungesWorldwide.aspx?sc_lang=en&cc=FI

I can't find any contract lounge left that OS allows you to enter under current rules.

So this is basically LX & M&M saving money on FTLs visiting lounges when booked on LX?

We we make a list of airports that will now drop off the radar for a FTL? That would make the situation clearer... @:-)

Thank you Oliver2002. I was just wondering if an unofficial list of the affected lounge exists.

I give AMS for sure, but for a LH FTL the picture seems still unclear.

So this is basically LX & M&M saving money on FTLs visiting lounges when booked on LX?

Same seems to apply for LOT-Passengers.

Probably also existing contracts from the Qualiflyer days?

LH-passengers from STR, DUS, CGN, TXL/BER etc. will also be affected when not flying to FRA or MUC - when their flight will be switched to Germanwings.

So this is basically LX & M&M saving money on FTLs visiting lounges when booked on LX?
FTLs flying on LH also have access to a contract lounge in MAN. Similar arrangement in BHX as far as I know.

LO left Qualiflyer 10+ years ago... doubt any contract lasts that long?? The weirdest mashup I ever saw was the lounges at BRU: SN has their own, LH/OS/LX still have a contract with the contract lounge (even with the SK lounge being there since years) and TP has a contract with the IB lounge :p

https://picasaweb.google.com/104315192179132158307/NewYork62012?authkey=Gv1sRgCNKWmJWU2NmxSQ#57544266 00572224162

LO left Qualiflyer 10+ years ago... doubt any contract lasts that long?? The weirdest mashup I ever saw was the lounges at BRU: SN has their own, LH/OS/LX still have a contract with the contract lounge (even with the SK lounge being there since years) and TP has a contract with the IB lounge :p

https://picasaweb.google.com/104315192179132158307/NewYork62012?authkey=Gv1sRgCNKWmJWU2NmxSQ#57544266 00572224162

I quite liked HKG where LX used the CX lounges instead of the STAR options.

Alas, that has now ended as well.

IST is a good one as well where the lounges LH refers you to are NOT the TK lounges (although you can enter them without any problem).

Well in IST the contract lounge is closer to the LH gates and has the generous SEN+family rule ^

FTLs flying on LH also have access to a contract lounge in MAN. Similar arrangement in BHX as far as I know.

Indeed they do, although I rarely visit it, despite being qualified to enter it in multiple ways. It's a pretty poor excuse for a lounge. I'm sure that with 21 Star flights a day (most of them being LH group), they could have a small Star lounge.

I quite liked HKG where LX used the CX lounges instead of the STAR options.

Alas, that has now ended as well.

IST is a good one as well where the lounges LH refers you to are NOT the TK lounges (although you can enter them without any problem).

Yes, but the TK lounge is really nice, so I can't think of going anywhere else.

Indeed they do, although I rarely visit it, despite being qualified to enter it in multiple ways. It's a pretty poor excuse for a lounge. I'm sure that with 21 Star flights a day (most of them being LH group), they could have a small Star lounge.
I only go to the Servisair lounge in MAN for a glass of water! I don't know how much LH is being charged for my visit.

Even after the departure of BD from *A, there are something like 33 daily *A flights from MAN including at least 3 longhaul flights. Unfortunately they are spread between 3 terminals so there's no chance of a Star lounge.

Even after the departure of BD from *A, there are something like 33 daily *A flights from MAN including at least 3 longhaul flights. Unfortunately they are spread between 3 terminals so there's no chance of a Star lounge.

Is there not any way to congregate the 33 daily *A flights in one of the 3 terminals? The consolidation of operating expenses would be quite interesting.

I only go to the Servisair lounge in MAN for a glass of water! I don't know how much LH is being charged for my visit.

Even after the departure of BD from *A, there are something like 33 daily *A flights from MAN including at least 3 longhaul flights. Unfortunately they are spread between 3 terminals so there's no chance of a Star lounge.

BHX now is effectively one terminal.

I only have coffee or water in the BHX lounge, but usually I have a proper breakfast instead of visiting it. It's the mild smell of jet fuel which is a bit offputting. I think I usually enter on my special access method :D

Yes, but the TK lounge is really nice, so I can't think of going anywhere else.

But that's a *G lounge, so FTLs don't have access unless they fly TK biz.

Is there not any way to congregate the 33 daily *A flights in one of the 3 terminals? The consolidation of operating expenses would be quite interesting.
MAN T1 (used by LH, LX, SK, TP, TK, 4U) and T3 (SN, JP) are in adjoining buildings and share an apron but they seem to be doing their best to separate the two in recent years. T1 and T2 (used by SQ, UA, US) have been turned into duty-free emporia with boarding gates, but T3 is a dump. T1/T3 and T2 are separated by a car park, a railway station and a hotel. BD has/had its own lounge in T3 and it will be interesting to see what BA will do with the space since they already have a lounge in the same terminal (half its original size).

The way airlines and terminals are (dis)organised in MAN is a complete mystery. It's not domestic/international or shorthaul/longhaul or legacy/low cost & charter and obviously not by alliance. All 3 *A carriers with longhaul flights happen to be in T2 but LH/LX share T1 with assorted charter airlines, EZY, EK and EY. The latter two have their own lounges.

While LH owned BD and BD was part of *A, it might have made sense to somehow turn the BD lounge into a mini *A lounge (it's right at the end of T3 next to T1) but that's history now. :(

I think I usually enter on my special access method :D
:rolleyes:

Well, the next enhancement has arrived. FTLs will no longer have access to contract lounges from 01st September. Thank you LH.

I am really pleased to have begun shifting my business towards BA after the spring changes. Will hit BA Silver with my next r/t flight and you know what? Overall, I actually like BA better as well!

Announcement only available in German (in the My Frequent Traveler Lounge area of the M & M website) so far:



Frequent Traveller: Änderung der Zugangsregelung für Vertragslounges
14.06.2012
Frequent Traveller, die in der Economy Class auf einem von den Star Alliance Fluggesellschaften durchgeführten Flug reisen, können ihren Aufenthalt am Flughafen in einer der Austrian Airlines, Lufthansa oder SWISS Business Lounges sowie den eigenen Lounges der Miles & More Partner, Brussels Airlines, Luxair* und LOT Polish Airline genießen.

Die bisherigen Vertragslounges stehen darüber hinaus ab dem 1. September 2012 leider nicht mehr zur Verfügung.

Weitere Informationen dazu erhalten Sie unter
http://www.miles-and-more.com/online/portal/mam/rowr/program/loungefinder
*nur in Verbindung mit einem durch Austrian Airlines, Lufthansa, Luxair oder SWISS durchgeführten Flug

Well nothing strange...
You do not have access to any lounge if you are just silver anywhere.
The FTL can only use the lounges in German, Austrian and Swiss airports, all others you have to be *G.

Well nothing strange...
You do not have access to any lounge if you are just silver anywhere.
The FTL can only use the lounges in German, Austrian and Swiss airports, all others you have to be *G.

Except that this is a big incentive for customers to go to BA and OneWorld.

The FTL can only use the lounges in German, Austrian and Swiss airports, all others you have to be *G.

Better get your facts straight.... as an FTL you get access to the business lounges when you have a LH/LX ticket. And that includes (or after September, included) the contract lounges.

Better get your facts straight.... as an FTL you get access to the business lounges when you have a LH/LX ticket. And that includes (or after September, included) the contract lounges.
I have travelled sometimes with FTL and they were never allowed into any contract lounges in Italy, Spain, Portugal, Croatia, Slovenia, Hungary, MIA, HKG and BKK, LHR. Flying LH, LX, OS in Y and *S.
So I know what I am talking about. But thanks for your post.

I have travelled sometimes with FTL and they were never allowed into any contract lounges in Italy, Spain, Portugal, Croatia, Slovenia, Hungary, MIA, HKG and BKK, LHR. Flying LH, LX, OS in Y and *S.
Until BD left *A, FTL flying out of LHR on LH and LX had access to the BD international lounge.

So I know what I am talking about. But thanks for your post.

Sorry, not really.....sure there are plenty of lounges you don't have access to as an FTL, but there are also quite a few that you do.

Just read this thread and you will find some. And just two weeks ago I was in the lounge in AMS and JFK as an FTL on a LX Y ticket. So this enhancement does have some impact, not exactly as simple as "You do not have access to any lounge if you are just silver anywhere".

I have travelled sometimes with FTL and they were never allowed into any contract lounges in Italy, Spain, Portugal, Croatia, Slovenia, Hungary, MIA, HKG and BKK, LHR. Flying LH, LX, OS in Y and *S.
So I know what I am talking about. But thanks for your post.

Well then you have never been with an FTL to VCE ;)

Well nothing strange...
You do not have access to any lounge if you are just silver anywhere.
The FTL can only use the lounges in German, Austrian and Swiss airports, all others you have to be *G.

FTL have access to all LH/LX-lounges + VIE/DME(OS), BRU(SN), LUX(LG) and WAW(LO) (all this remains) plus some contract lounges:

FTL with LX-tickets: see above.
FTL with LH tickets: Quite a few, too (about 50% of all destinations worlödwide)
FTL with LO tickets: Everywhere except BCN and EWR
FTL with OS tickets: IST and KRK

Not sure about the rules with tickets from: SN, LG, OU, JP.

It don't think there is much difference between FTL on a LH or LX ticket (except the locations they fly to)?
I was allowed into the JFK lounge on a LX ticket with my FTL status.

It don't think there is much difference between FTL on a LH or LX ticket? I was allowed into the JFK lounge on a LX ticket with my FTL status.

Concerning contract lounges, the rules are totally different and depending on the carrier you depart with.

JFK is not a problem, as it is a LH lounge.

Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry8900/4.6.1.168 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/130)

So the LH lounge in DME is gone for the FTLs.. sigh. 10-15 daily flights are obviously not enough. No PP lougne there either..

Why? It's'a LH operated lounge IIRC so you can still visit it. Alternatively there's'also an LX op lounge there and if I am not cpmpletely mistaken there was also a OS lounge when I was there back in 2010.

The LH lounge finder states that there is (only) one contract lounge.... So no more FTL access there... But the LX lounge might be your saviour.

DME has a LH branded contract lounge. The OS lounge is owned/operated by OS.

I have travelled sometimes with FTL and they were never allowed into any contract lounges in Italy, Spain, Portugal, Croatia, Slovenia, Hungary, MIA, HKG and BKK, LHR. Flying LH, LX, OS in Y and *S.
So I know what I am talking about. But thanks for your post.

For Slovenia (LJU) this definitly isn't true. On a JP operated flight (the only Star Alliance carrier besides TK) FTL have access to the lounge. There was only a brief period (a few months) couple of years ago when they didn't. Even a golden LH credit card usually does the trick.

Does anyone know if this lounge is going to be affected in September?

LX have sent out some spiel to station managers regarding this when dealing with complaints. I'm happy to post it here:

This re-active wording shall be used whenever confronted with customer queries - it is however not intended to be handed to customers.

Change
In the context of a harmonization of Lounge Access Policies within the Lufthansa Group, Frequent Travellers (FTL) travelling in Economy Class on a flight operated by a Star Alliance carrier won‘t have access to Contract Lounges (Third
Party Lounges) anymore as of 01 September 2012.

Statements which can be used towards FTLs at stations with Contract Lounges as of 01 September

− Due to a harmonization of Lounge Access Policies within the Lufthansa Group, you as Frequent Traveller (FTL) unfortunately don‘t have access to our lounge anymore, as communicated earlier by Miles&More.

− However, you still have access to SWISS, Austrian Airlines or Lufthansa Business Lounges as well as the own Lounges of Miles & More partners Brussels Airlines, Luxair (only in connection with a flight operated by SWISS, Austrian Airlines,
Lufthansa or Luxair) and LOT Polish Airlines.

− To find out whether your future destinations have a corresponding lounge offer, please consult the Miles&More Lounge

Search or for SWISS flights SWISS.COM/Lounges.

Contact Details for FTL complaints (only on FTL‘s explicit request)
SWISS.COM/Customerservice

They made a similar one for HON's who can no longer use the LX lounges when travelling on a non-Star carrier. Not really worth posting.

Change

In the context of a harmonization of Lounge Access Policies within the Lufthansa Group, the following change applies for airports without lounge facilities as of 01 September:
Customers who would have lounge access (customers travelling in SWISS Business / SWISS First as well as Miles&More status members) shall not be given a „Refreshment Voucher“ as compensation anymore.

Statements which can be used at stations without a Lounge as of 01 September

− Unfortunately there is no lounge available at this airport, so we are unable to offer you that service – please accept our apologies for the inconvenience!

− However, if you have a connecting flight in Zurich and some time available (at least 60 minutes between arrival and departure), we would be delighted to welcome you in one of our comfortable lounges there.

− More information about the lounge offer in Zurich are to be found on SWISS.COM/Lounges.

Statement to be used in case customer demands for a „Refreshment Voucher“

In the context of a harmonization of Lounge Access Policies within the Lufthansa Group, a „Refreshment Voucher“ as compensation for the missing lounge facilities is not foreseen anymore since 01 September 2012.

Contact Details for complaints (only on customer‘s explicit request)
SWISS.COM/Customerservice

DME has a LH branded contract lounge. The OS lounge is owned/operated by OS.

Official word on this is that it will be considered an 'official contract lounge and subsequently the lounge access policy for Contract Lounges will apply as of then.'

Ladies & Gentlemen,
lets keep any personal comments about other members to ourselves and stay on topic. 3 OT comments deleted.

Regards Oliver2002
Mod M&M forum

Official word on this is that it will be considered an 'official contract lounge and subsequently the lounge access policy for Contract Lounges will apply as of then.'

Not sure how relevant this info now:) but all airlines' lounges at DME are contract lounges. Some airlines, including OS, LH, BA negotiated to use lounges on an exlcuisve basis and to brand them appropriately. But they remain airport, hence contract, lounges...

I don't know when exactly this change of policy happened, as JP certainly didn't bother to notify anyone in any meaningful way, but FTL no longer have access to the business lounge in LJU (previously available in conjunction with JP flights).

Well that would've been good to know before I booked a connection in LJU with a 4.5-hour layover in EU's most boring airport. The Customer Relations dept. couldn't care less*, judging by their response to my e-mail.

*that we've lost access, not that the airport's boring

I don't know when exactly this change of policy happened, as JP certainly didn't bother to notify anyone in any meaningful way, but FTL no longer have access to the business lounge in LJU (previously available in conjunction with JP flights).

Well that would've been good to know before I booked a connection in LJU with a 4.5-hour layover in EU's most boring airport. The Customer Relations dept. couldn't care less*, judging by their response to my e-mail.

*that we've lost access, not that the airport's boring

While I agree that this is very frustrating I think there are even more boring airports than Ljubljana in the EU- Chareloi for example brings to mind the words "soul destroying". With 4.5 hours did you at least head in to town for a coffee and a walk along the river? I love the centre of Ljubljana and especially the way they have retained its overall charm even though the city has changed so dramatically in the last 20 years.

That's exactly what I'm planning with this turn of events in mind, although it takes a good 45 minutes from the airport to the centre of Ljubljana. I might go to Kranj instead, but I suppose it'll depend on the bus schedule as well. Thanks for the tip in any case.

That's exactly what I'm planning with this turn of events in mind, although it takes a good 45 minutes from the airport to the centre of Ljubljana. I might go to Kranj instead, but I suppose it'll depend on the bus schedule as well. Thanks for the tip in any case.

The bus does indeed take 45 minutes- alternatively a taxi should be about 15 minutes faster although quite a bit more expensive. I am surprised this lounge has access cancelled as Adria uses Miles&More as their frequent flyer program. Meh...

Same situation with JP and OU now - no access for FTL into any of the (admittedly contract) lounges at their hubs. Poor show.