Practical Travel Safety Issues - Amsterdam airport !

Youngest daughter flew in yesterday from Europe.
She told me this story.

SHe was here in Feb 2011 and had a esta approval in her passport. She lost her passport at Lax and had to get e new one.

Fast forward to June 2012.

She is swedish living and working in Italy. Bought ticket in Italy with no problem with Esta.
Flew to Amsterdam to connect to USA. Here the problems started.

Her Esta approval did not match the passport. Of cause not it is a new passport. She was not allowed to fill out a new Esta since she had one already that is valid.
No one would help her. She was not allowed on the plane. This happened to 5-6 other people on the same flight. She did not know them.

After hrs at the airport she was told to fill out a new application anyway. They showed her one machine that did not work.

In the end everything got solved. The airport did not like that she had a new passport and a valid "old" esta approval.

She had to buy a new ticket. All this got her stuck at the airport for over 5 hrs.

Then it was security before boarding the plane. She did the scanner since at this point she was totally out of any fighting.

She was then questioned for some times. The security had a very hard time to understand shy she is citizent of one country, lives and works in another and was going to visit her mother in USA. It was just to much for security's minds.

She came last night. No problems entering the country.

Now we will see how LAX will treat her in 3 weeks when she is leaving the country.

If I understand, she had a new passport and the ESTA was linked up to the old passport. ESTA is linked up to the passport number, and can only be used with that passport.

She did the mistake. The airport did nothing wrong.

Agree.

She was for hrs not allowed to fill out a new Esta.
The airport said she had one already and that was valid . But connected to the old passport.

So the problem was that she was not allowed to fill a new out.

And actually the travling agencys always makes sure people have valid Esta. And so they did with her ticket in italy.

So who ever told her all above sure did not know their job and did not know what to do.

Still, it's surprising that the Dutch would find it so unusual to live and work in a different European country while having American relatives to visit.

It is not the Dutch that does this. American carriers are required to do this questioning - lots of questions about everything. If someone traveling on the VWP are going to board an aircraft to the US without a valid ESTA, that person has a big problem.

Still, it's surprising that the Dutch would find it so unusual to live and work in a different European country while having American relatives to visit.

Yes it is pretty amazing.

...And actually the travling agencys always makes sure people have valid Esta. And so they did with her ticket in italy.what to do.

The ESTA might be valid, but without the passport linked to it, it is completely worthless.

Also forgot to mention that there was no problems with her Esta and her passport when Italy's airport checked it.

So somehwere in the air between Amsterdam and Italy it got problems with it.

Also forgot to mention that there was no problems with her Esta and her passport when Italy's airport checked it.


What passport number was on her ESTA - the number of the new or the old passport?

What passport number was on her ESTA - the number of the new or the old passport?

The old one.

All that is one thing. She did not know that.
The issue is that it was all fine in Italy when she boarded the first plane. No issue at all. it was also checked by the travelling agency.

The problem started in Amsterdam.
If the travelling agency would have noticed it she would have had all that done before leaving italy.

Also she was allowed on board in Italy with it.

There is no way she could have traveled to the US with her old ESTA. I don't know how the check-in systems work, but I can't see why she couldn't go to AMS with an old ESTA. It is the people in the airport of AMS that have the final responsibility about ESTA/visa-stuff.

If the travel agency checked it - they have done a huge mistake, and I would contact them to get a refund of her expenses. But ultimately you should always check these things yourself too.

Again, the people in AMS did no mistake, in fact they did their job precisely as they should.

There is no way she could have traveled to the US with her old ESTA. I don't know how the check-in systems work, but I can't see why she couldn't go to AMS with an old ESTA. It is the people in the airport of AMS that have the final responsibility about ESTA/visa-stuff.

If the travel agency checked it - they have done a huge mistake, and I would contact them to get a refund of her expenses. But ultimately you should always check these things yourself too.

Again, the people in AMS did no mistake, in fact they did their job precisely as they should.

Also when it was discovered she said I fill a new one out. They TOLD her NO. Beacuse she had one on her old passport.
In the end it did turn out that she could.

So I think if they are so good experts should the irport not know that she could? Instead of letting her sit there for hrs while she was trying to figure out what to do.

When I am in Sweden and flying to USA. I do leave from Copenhagen airport. Most of the times there is a connecting flight somewhere in Europe.
I get aske every time in CPH if I have a Esta. I say I have a resident card.
So they do ask that , at least in Scandinavia, that even if that is not a plane direcltly going to USA.

She is going to make a complaint. She trusted the people who arranged her trip. She is young.

And where did she get this NO? At the gate? It takes up to 72 hours to get an ESTA. I understand that it is frustrating for your daughter, but it is not the airports responsibility to provide her with a new ESTA.

I would rather blame the travel agency than the airport in this case.

I think it's the airline who saud all that and not airport staff?

It was when she got to her connecting flight at Amsterdam airport.

The issues we have a problem with is again.
That it all got checked and verified in Italy.
That the Esta was up to date and to the passport.

Who ever said that it was all clear to go to USA is at fault. So we do blame the airport in Italy and the travel agency. They were the ones who "cleared" her that everything was up to date.

It is not her fault. She knew she had an Esta and a passport.She did everything correct from her part.

She did get a new Esta.And it is now on her "newer passport.

Misstakes can even be made from people who works at airports and travel agencys. When it does happen they should help the passenger who has saved up money for the trip.
Not just ignore them and be rude.

A lot of people have never even heard of Esta. Especially older people and those wo have hardly ever travelled.

Some people dont have computers for different reasons.

So at least in Sweden the travel agencys help those people out.

That is just normal thinking.

The issues we have a problem with is again.
That it all got checked and verified in Italy.
That the Esta was up to date and to the passport.

Who ever said that it was all clear to go to USA is at fault. So we do blame the airport in Italy and the travel agency. They were the ones who "cleared" her that everything was up to date.

The challenge is that the people in Italy who checked the ESTA (a US authorization) of a passenger flying to Amsterdam probably aren't the experts. The people who really understand the ESTA rules were probably checking documents for passengers boarding the non-stop flights to the US, not intra-Europe stuff.

You hear similar examples in the US: John Doe boards a flight at a US domestic airport flying to another US airport, where he'll connect to an international flight. Only after arriving at the connecting airport (or, worse, the international destination) does it become apparent that there's a problem with his paperwork. "But they checked it at [tiny hole in the wall airport that sees very few passengers going to international destinations each year]!"

This thread details a similar situation (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/archive/t-1324389.html).

The challenge is that the people in Italy who checked the ESTA (a US authorization) of a passenger flying to Amsterdam probably aren't the experts. The people who really understand the ESTA rules were probably checking documents for passengers boarding the non-stop flights to the US, not intra-Europe stuff.

You hear similar examples in the US: John Doe boards a flight at a US domestic airport flying to another US airport, where he'll connect to an international flight. Only after arriving at the connecting airport (or, worse, the international destination) does it become apparent that there's a problem with his paperwork. "But they checked it at [tiny hole in the wall airport that sees very few passengers going to international destinations each year]!"

This thread details a similar situation (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/archive/t-1324389.html).

I agree what you are saying.

To me that is not very good at all.

And we read the threads that USA says to tourists "it is very easy to visit USA"?!

It is NOT.

TO the OP - you've described a situation that many here believe is NOT the USA 's or the airport's fault. What seems clear is that your daughter KNEW she'd lost her passport and yet kept the old ESTA connected to the OLD passport.

It doesn't sound 'like you are asking for advice but just want to vent. That's fine. But discussion of these issues belongs in the debate forum.

thanks

squeakr

co Mod TS/S

TO the OP - you've described a situation that many here believe is NOT the USA 's or the airport's fault. What seems clear is that your daughter KNEW she'd lost her passport and yet kept the old ESTA connected to the OLD passport.

It doesn't sound 'like you are asking for advice but just want to vent. That's fine. But discussion of these issues belongs in the debate forum.

thanks

squeakr

co Mod TS/S

Of cause she knew she lost her passport.
You cant get a new swedish passport and keep the old oe.
She lost the passport just a few weeks after getting her ESTA.

I was asking both for advice and venting. She cant be the only one.

Please feel free to move this thread to the proper place.

It is a shame that a lot of people writes here that it is the airport etc but this has NOTHING to do with Schiphol or Amsterdam but all to do with the airline and US regulations. The checkers don't even work for the airport but the airline and she would have the same problem on any airport when flying to the states. ( flying within Europe has nothing to do with the US visa )

It is a shame that a lot of people writes here that it is the airport etc but this has NOTHING to do with Schiphol or Amsterdam but all to do with the airline and US regulations. The checkers don't even work for the airport but the airline and she would have the same problem on any airport when flying to the states. ( flying within Europe has nothing to do with the US visa )

I do agree what you write about the airline and US regulations.

However it becomes a problem like in this case when one "airport" says it is ok with an Esta even if it is not connected to the new passport.

And another "airport" says the opposite.

Even bigger problem when nobody knew what to do. Cause according to them she was not allowed to have a new Esta since she had one.
It got solved thanks to that finally somebody knew she was allowed a new Esta. Nice to know that somebody knew their job.

It is not her fault. She knew she had an Esta and a passport.She did everything correct from her part.

No, it was her fault. She did not update the information, thus was at fault. I would consider myself at fault if I found myself in a similar situation (but I do keep my information updated when it changes)

She did not do things correctly; she made an error, and this is the end result of that error.

If one is travelling to a country with visa requirements (regardless if it is the US, or another country), then one has to take responsibility for oneself and understand the visa regulations and complete the visa information correctly.

I have as little sympathy in this case as I do for the FTer who tried to travel from the US to China without a visa. Nor do I think that the thread title is really that accurate, considering the actual contents of the thread. If anything, the thread serves as a warning to travellers that they must take personal responsibility to ensure that they have the correct documentation completed prior to travel.

(And interesting to note that virtually every single person who disagrees with you is not actually living in America, and most or all of us are not American citizens either.)

No, it was her fault. She did not update the information, thus was at fault. I would consider myself at fault if I found myself in a similar situation (but I do keep my information updated when it changes)

She did not do things correctly; she made an error, and this is the end result of that error.

If one is travelling to a country with visa requirements (regardless if it is the US, or another country), then one has to take responsibility for oneself and understand the visa regulations and complete the visa information correctly.

I have as little sympathy in this case as I do for the FTer who tried to travel from the US to China without a visa. Nor do I think that the thread title is really that accurate, considering the actual contents of the thread. If anything, the thread serves as a warning to travellers that they must take personal responsibility to ensure that they have the correct documentation completed prior to travel.

(And interesting to note that virtually every single person who disagrees with you is not actually living in America, and most or all of us are not American citizens either.)

I agree with that part that every single person must take own responsibility for their travelling. Not to trust any employee at a travel agency or any one working with this at an airport.

She should had questioned it from the begining not trusted the experts on this. She is very young and to trustee at a lot of times.She should have double checked it EVEN if they told her she had all the paperwork she needed.

As I said it got solved and she is here. Only 5 hrs later.

Then may I suggest that you be grateful that she was only delayed 5 hours, and thankful to the staff who assisted her, even though she made a serious error? As pointed out above, the normal application process would normally have taken much longer.

Then may I suggest that you be grateful that she was only delayed 5 hours, and thankful to the staff who assisted her, even though she made a serious error? As pointed out above, the normal application process would normally have taken much longer.

I dont think you read that part that the airport in Italy told her when they checked her Esta that it was fine .They told her that even she had got the Esta with another passport that would not be a problem.
We know now that they were wrong.

Sure she is thankful for that she got here. After buying a new ticket. And after they told her for hrs that she could not apply for a new ESTA at all. Not until the old one was not valid any more.

Her misstake was that she first trusted the travel agency that she did not need a new one. And then the checkers at the Italien airport.

And at the swedish webite for Esta it says it takes anywere from a few minutes up to 72 hrs.

And others have explained that just like in the US, the first flight may not result in a check.

It's much easier to place blame on someone else, but in the end it is the traveller, not the airport authorities, or the travel agency, who has the responsibility. In this case you even stated that your daughter was aware of the ESTA issue ie being tied to her old passport.

She made a mistake. Her mistake was in regards to not updating her information. Nobody else is to blame for that mistake. She hopefully learned from that mistake. But in the end she was the one who was wrong, and she was very lucky that things worked out as well as they did, and that the various authorities allowed for things to go as smoothly as they did.

I'm not certain why the vent as being travel security-related, as there really is only one person to hold responsible for the situation. The visa situation may be security related, but I do believe that your anger is misplaced.