Credit Card Programs - Comprehensive list of ATM fees by country?

It would be great if we had such a list. Does it exist somewhere on the Internet? It would be very useful.

Have you tried The Google?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATM_usage_fees

That's a good start, although by no means comprehensive.

There is information on most other countries on the internet, but I haven't found it all in one place.

Here's the idea: correct my if I'm wrong but do bank tellers ask a third party fee if you take out cash at a bank branch? If not then you could probably escape the rather hefty 3rd party ATM fees. (They could be rather hefty in places like South America.)

Here's the idea: correct my if I'm wrong but do bank tellers ask a third party fee if you take out cash at a bank branch? If not then you could probably escape the rather hefty 3rd party ATM fees. (They could be rather hefty in places like South America.)

You will pay a much higher fee when taking out cash at the counter if the withdrawal is even possible.

A transaction fee + a very crummy exchange rate would be what you are facing.
You do know when you use a, say, USD based card to get, say, Euro, you are essentially selling USD to the bank and buying Euro from the bank, dont you? There is a differential between the Buy and Sell.

The exchange rate from the ATM is the million $ interbank exchange rate with differential less than 0.5% between buy and sell). The exchange rate from the counter is the Retail Buy/Sell exchange rate with differential often between 5 to 10%.

ATM withdrawal is THE most cost effective way to get any local currency anywhere in the world except in countries where the "Black Market" money exchange is prevailing.

The exchange rate from the ATM is the million $ interbank exchange rate with differential less than 0.5% between buy and sell). The exchange rate from the counter is the Retail Buy/Sell exchange rate with differential often between 5 to 10%.
That's new. I didn't know that.

What happy said is true. I just came back from China and did a C/A on my Saphire and the rate was only 0.6 - 0.7% higher than the XeCurrency converter rate that day. I just found out that Penfed has no C/A fee & Foreign transaction fee, so that might be ideal for emergency money overseas.

What happy said is true. I just came back from China and did a C/A on my Saphire and the rate was only 0.6 - 0.7% higher than the XeCurrency converter rate that day. I just found out that Penfed has no C/A fee & Foreign transaction fee, so that might be ideal for emergency money overseas.
But with a cash advance on a credit card, don't you start getting charged the cash advance interest rate on the amount you withdrew itself, from the moment you make the withdrawael, with no grace period (like you have for purchases), and if so don't you have to factor that in? The cash advance interest rate, even if onlyfor a few days (say, you pay the card balance off as soon as you get to someplace you can do that online, it still takes a few days to show up as paid) will be way way more than any C/A fee or foreign transcation fee would have been.

So I don't even see the point of worrying that much about whether credit card cash advances have a slight fee or not, because IMHO that's fairly irrelevant compared to the bigger cost of the instant cash advance interest rate that's applied to them.

(And I'm not sure you can extrapolate from fees or no fees on a credit cash advance at a particular ATM to whether or not you would have had any fees on a compeltely different bank account debit card at the same ATM. The same ATM can do completely different things fee-wise for a credit cash advance than for a debit withdrawal, and of course at your end the fees vary from card to card and account to account.)

But with a cash advance on a credit card, don't you start getting charged the cash advance interest rate on the amount you withdrew itself, from the moment you make the withdrawael, with no grace period (like you have for purchases), and if so don't you have to factor that in? The cash advance interest rate, even if onlyfor a few days (say, you pay the card balance off as soon as you get to someplace you can do that online, it still takes a few days to show up as paid) will be way way more than any C/A fee or foreign transcation fee would have been.

So I don't even see the point of worrying that much about whether credit card cash advances have a slight fee or not, because IMHO that's fairly irrelevant compared to the bigger cost of the instant cash advance interest rate that's applied to them.

(And I'm not sure you can extrapolate from fees or no fees on a credit cash advance at a particular ATM to whether or not you would have had any fees on a compeltely different bank account debit card at the same ATM. The same ATM can do completely different things fee-wise for a credit cash advance than for a debit withdrawal, and of course at your end the fees vary from card to card and account to account.)

Yeah, interest starts from transaction date, but at a maximum of 10% apy for the next 2 years I think it's alright compared to Chase's 3% to 5% min $10 fee up front + interest. Chase had the C/A post from China in 2 days. I paid it off immediately. I think it boils down to how much you withdraw and how quickly you plan to get the C/a paid off. I don't think you'd want to do this if you have a high balance that needs to be paid as typically their is a heirarchy of payment allocation where payments go towards purchases first and C/a principle is usually last. I used an ATM in walmart and it had no fee, just the ~0.7% conversion loss.

In the penfed case and if the conversion is good then the interest would be 10% / 365 days = .02739 daily interest rate * 30 days * $1,000 C/a = $8.22 per month interest (simple).
Actually would be slightly higher because of compounding.

This is my chase transaction:

06/08/2012 Fee
TRANSACTION FEE $10.32

06/08/2012
Cash Advance 0330005133301/SELF-SERVI $206.31
DA LIAN000000000CN
In-person transaction

This was $1300 RMB made 6/8 3am EST or 3pm China time.

Edit, I recalculated my Forex conversion and I believe it's higher than I thought (about 1.1%)

But with a cash advance on a credit card, don't you start getting charged the cash advance interest rate on the amount you withdrew itself, from the moment you make the withdrawael, with no grace period (like you have for purchases), and if so don't you have to factor that in? The cash advance interest rate, even if onlyfor a few days (say, you pay the card balance off as soon as you get to someplace you can do that online, it still takes a few days to show up as paid) will be way way more than any C/A fee or foreign transcation fee would have been.

So I don't even see the point of worrying that much about whether credit card cash advances have a slight fee or not, because IMHO that's fairly irrelevant compared to the bigger cost of the instant cash advance interest rate that's applied to them.

(And I'm not sure you can extrapolate from fees or no fees on a credit cash advance at a particular ATM to whether or not you would have had any fees on a compeltely different bank account debit card at the same ATM. The same ATM can do completely different things fee-wise for a credit cash advance than for a debit withdrawal, and of course at your end the fees vary from card to card and account to account.)

He is doing it for emergency needs. As long as he immediately pays it back while hopefully he does not have prior charges made on the card before the cash withdrawal and NOT to have any after - paying off the ENTIRE balance (incl both the cash withdrawal AND the purchases) shortly after he made the C/A, the expenses would be bearable in absolute $ terms.

The cash advance fee would always be charged but the ATM withdrawal would have a much lower forex conversion differential than going to a bank.

Of course one should try to avoid using a credit card's C/A feature by all means. But when one has no other options, the CC can be useful provided you even know the PIN of the card for C/A. (I know I dont.)

That's new. I didn't know that.

This is not new. This is how banking system works. It has been like that for years and years and years.

The ATM global network is a God Send to travelers who used were being gauged by the Buy/Sell differentials and no any viable alternatives to avoid such until the invention of ATM and the establishment of the global network - your individual transaction is being pooled with millions of others - big and small - among banks - to send back and forth in HUGE sum each and every day at the various settlement schedules, hence you enjoy the very favorable rate.

Besides, just think a little bit further, if what you conjure up is a good way to by pass the ATM fee or forex fee or what not, wouldn't you think why this is not a wide-spread practice, if it works? Many things just need a little common sense to think thru and a little google to verify.

He is doing it for emergency needs.
I understand all that. I just don't understand the signficance of that to ATM fees.

If this thread was "getting cash oversaes", I'd think it was quite on-tiopic.

But this thread is about figuring out ATM debit card fees overseas*, and I don't see the signfacnce of credit card cash advances to that.

*The thread started being about a list of ATM fees by country, but the fact is there cannot be such a list, because it's much more dependent on the banks (your bank and the bank whose ATM you're using). Whether you get also get fee from the bank you're withdrawing from depends more on the bank than on the country.

For example, no matter which country I go to in Europe, I tend to see DeutcheBank ATMs, ING ATMs, etc! My experiences at these ATMs correlate to the bank, not the country I'm encountering the ATM in.

I understand all that. I just don't understand the signficance of that to ATM fees.

If this thread was "getting cash oversaes", I'd think it was quite on-tiopic.

But this thread is about figuring out ATM debit card fees overseas*, and I don't see the signfacnce of credit card cash advances to that.

*The thread started being about a list of ATM fees by country, but the fact is there cannot be such a list, because it's much more dependent on the banks (your bank and the bank whose ATM you're using). Whether you get also get fee from the bank you're withdrawing from depends more on the bank than on the country.

For example, no matter which country I go to in Europe, I tend to see DeutcheBank ATMs, ING ATMs, etc! My experiences at these ATMs correlate to the bank, not the country I'm encountering the ATM in.

Relax! The poster posted his experiences on the C/A just to show to trev that the exchange rate from ATM withdrawal is far superior than getting money from the bank counter - because trev naively thinks he could avoid ATM fee by going directly to the bank counter... It is an off topic but not that terribly so. If one has to be a purist on all threads on FT, one would MISS tons of valuable nformation which often are found in off-topic posts!

As far as the banks versus countries - I believe countries can play a role as well when you think about the country's banking regulation - some may forbid charging a fee some may not.

I know recently BNP charges 1% fee on my ill-fortune ATM withdrawal (did not complete because the machine ate my card - but I could see the pending charge on the fee and the withdrew amount on my Fidelity cash management account.)

I plan on getting the Penfed Rewards card as I see that there is no Forex fee and no C/A fee on their side. I think I may have also read no minimum fincance charge. For 10% APR (till July 2014) and the fact I always pay off balances in full I'll take the 1.1% loss in conversion to Chinese RMB over published rates.

I think that is really the fee we are speaking off, just hidden into the bank who services that atm. I'm sure Atm's are all different in China and some may charge a separate fee, but so far, I've not been notified of any such atm fees over there when I attempted a C/A on two atm's over there. I'm sure there would be an equal conversion loss on a debit card as well. So I don't see much downside to this with the right credit card.

As of yet, Chase saphire has not applied any fincance charge on my for the C/a, but then again, I've not cycled yet either and brought the balance to 0 just 3 days after the C/A posted. I did have previous charges on the Saphire prior to the C/A but I made sure to get the whole balance down to zero just after the advance posted. Additionally I have new purchases now that have posted. Will be interesting to see what happens when I cycle.

I plan on getting the Penfed Rewards card as I see that there is no Forex fee and no C/A fee on their side. I think I may have also read no minimum fincance charge. For 10% APR (till July 2014) and the fact I always pay off balances in full I'll take the 1.1% loss in conversion to Chinese RMB over published rates.

I think that is really the fee we are speaking off, just hidden into the bank who services that atm. I'm sure Atm's are all different in China and some may charge a separate fee, but so far, I've not been notified of any such atm fees over there when I attempted a C/A on two atm's over there. I'm sure there would be an equal conversion loss on a debit card as well. So I don't see much downside to this with the right credit card.

As of yet, Chase saphire has not applied any fincance charge on my for the C/a, but then again, I've not cycled yet either and brought the balance to 0 just 3 days after the C/A posted. I did have previous charges on the Saphire prior to the C/A but I made sure to get the whole balance down to zero just after the advance posted. Additionally I have new purchases now that have posted. Will be interesting to see what happens when I cycle.

I were you I would not put any new charge on the card until the statement closes. The C/A fee would post on the statement close date, as well as whatever finance charge it has. In the past when "double cycles" method is used by the banks in calculating the C/A interest, any charges put AFTER the C/A immediately incur interest also, based on the wordings in those T&Cs. But I never have any C/A on a CC, so really no personal experience on this subj.

Let us know what shows up on your card once statement closes.

- because trev naively thinks he could avoid ATM fee by going directly to the bank counter...
Not any more! :D

Not any more! :D

We all have similar moment. That is how we would learn. ;)

We all have similar moment. That is how we would learn. ;)
I'm not sure about the situation now!

I don't know if you can avoid the ATM fee by going to a bank teller but I asked some banks and ALL said you get the same rate at a bank teller as from an ATM. That's nice.

I'm not sure about the situation now!

I don't know if you can avoid the ATM fee by going to a bank teller but I asked some banks and ALL said you get the same rate at a bank teller as from an ATM. That's nice.

What you can do is to make an ACTUAL withdrawal and see what happens.

The banks do NOT even know what the exchange rate ATM transactions would be, until AFTER the transaction is completed within the Visa or Mastercard network. While you go to the bank counter, they look at the day's Buy/Sell quotes and do the transaction based on those quotes.

My bet is you dont get the same rate as you would get from ATM. But you can trust what the banks tell you instead what others on the forum tell you (based on actual, real life experiences.) Your call. .

You will pay a much higher fee when taking out cash at the counter if the withdrawal is even possible.

A transaction fee + a very crummy exchange rate would be what you are facing.
You do know when you use a, say, USD based card to get, say, Euro, you are essentially selling USD to the bank and buying Euro from the bank, dont you? There is a differential between the Buy and Sell.

The exchange rate from the ATM is the million $ interbank exchange rate with differential less than 0.5% between buy and sell). The exchange rate from the counter is the Retail Buy/Sell exchange rate with differential often between 5 to 10%.

ATM withdrawal is THE most cost effective way to get any local currency anywhere in the world except in countries where the "Black Market" money exchange is prevailing.
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Given ATM's are the best, if one is stuck at the airport and has to go to the money exchange desk, what would would be a fair markup. e.g. Today at DIA with the Euro at 1.2595 they wanted $1.40+ or a $.14 @ markup. They said this was their "market rate". It seems excessive. Do airport differ in the same day price because of volume? Would I get a better rate say at IAD or FRA?

Your ATM fees are essentially completely free if you have a Charles Schwab High Yield Investor Checking account. They charge 0% forex fees and they reimburse any ATM fees that may be charged. Though I should say that I've never actually seen an ATM usage fee show up from another bank, so Schwab could be taking care of those fees on the back end so that I never even see them.

They give very good exchange rates as well. I may be miscalculating, but it seems that I am usually getting the exact rate shone on xe.com.

For anyone needing to get cash from an ATM while traveling abroad you can't go wrong with the Schwab High Yield Investor Checking account.

Your ATM fees are essentially completely free if you have a Charles Schwab High Yield Investor Checking account. They charge 0% forex fees and they reimburse any ATM fees that may be charged. Though I should say that I've never actually seen an ATM usage fee show up from another bank, so Schwab could be taking care of those fees on the back end so that I never even see them.

They give very good exchange rates as well. I may be miscalculating, but it seems that I am usually getting the exact rate shone on xe.com.

For anyone needing to get cash from an ATM while traveling abroad you can't go wrong with the Schwab High Yield Investor Checking account.

+1 for Schwab. ATM fees are charged as part of the withdrawal and credited when the monthly statement cuts.

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Given ATM's are the best, if one is stuck at the airport and has to go to the money exchange desk, what would would be a fair markup. e.g. Today at DIA with the Euro at 1.2595 they wanted $1.40+ or a $.14 @ markup. They said this was their "market rate". It seems excessive. Do airport differ in the same day price because of volume? Would I get a better rate say at IAD or FRA?
It's who provides the money exchange that matters, not which airport they're in. Typically, at most airports, I see the same few big money exchange companies repeating, and all of them have what to me seems like excessive markup. It's because they're for-profit companies, and that's how they make their profit. And operating inside an airport carries even more expenses than outside. (Ever priced a bottle of water inside an airport compared to right outside? Every compared the prices of a chain restaurant inside an airport to outside? Everything provided by concessions inside an airport is generally more expensive than outside!)

But don't most major airports have ATMs? (Typically outside security, though, because it's typically arriving people that need them, and arriving people are by definition dumped landside.)

So I'm not clear why simply being stuck at an airport would require you to use a money-exchange service instead of an ATM. If you're stuck airside, you may not have access to either, but doesn't everyone airside accept credit cards anyway? If you are landside, you should have access to both in most places.

(Whether you can get your card to work at the ATM, of course, that could be an issue. I remember some airport, tho I forget which, in the last year or two where I had to try 3 or 4 or 5 different bank's ATMs before I found one which could accept my bank card. Tho in this case some were simply not working at all, on a Sunday morning I think it was, rather than not taking my card but taking others.)

I were you I would not put any new charge on the card until the statement closes. The C/A fee would post on the statement close date, as well as whatever finance charge it has. In the past when "double cycles" method is used by the banks in calculating the C/A interest, any charges put AFTER the C/A immediately incur interest also, based on the wordings in those T&Cs. But I never have any C/A on a CC, so really no personal experience on this subj.

Let us know what shows up on your card once statement closes.

So here is the result:

Statement closed 7/6. $206 Cash Advance done 6/8. About 28 days.
Interest charged was $0.46. I called CS to make sure I was correct in that I payed the balance to 0 about 3 days after going to the atm. So the balance was 0 for about another 3 days until new charges posted. CS confirmed that because of this I will not get any residual finance charge.