US Airways Dividend Miles - Egregious US Behavior - Need Help

My wife rarely flies for business. But tonight she was flying from BHM to DFW via CLT (one ticket one way purchase; not two separate flights).

She was supposed to be on tonight's Flight 373. Here's what happened.

Due to mechanical, her flight was about 30 minutes late leaving BHM. The gate agent and flight attendants were saying the connections would all be okay. When she got to CLT, she got out of the plane and ran to her departure gate. Her watch read 10.09 and departure was scheduled for 10.11. My wife had a boarding pass in hand for that flight that she received back in BHM. The gate agent told her that she was out of luck and that it was actually her fault for not being at the gate 5 minutes prior to departure. My wife had run the whole way and was out of breath even. The plane had already pushed back. Agent was ambivilous to my wife's problem, first even trying to tell her that she had no recourse as it was weather. Found out later from the folk at baggage that it was indeed mechanical that caused the late flight from BHM. Still my wife was at the gate 2 minutes before departure. The gate agent refused to give her a hotel room.

My wife finally found someone at Special Services? that was willing to her a room. She gets into a cab and the cabbie wasn't sure how to get to the hotel so my wife called the hotel for directions. Guess what? The hotel had no rooms. Back to the airport.

A very nice lady in Baggage services helped my wife with a room and and found out for certain that it was mechanical.

How should I go about handling compensation for this? I'm also wondering if the flight (373) wasn't sold out and they needed her seat and just took it. That would explain why they pushed back early. Is there any way to find out if US 373 from CLT to DFW was full tonight?

I'm thoroughly hacked off here. Any advice (other than don't fly US) as far as how to tackle this?

Thanks in advance to my fellow FTers.

Doesn't really matter if it is full or not.

The agent is more concerned about getting their flight off the gate on time than getting called in to explain why they got a flight off the gate late.

You can call it shortsighted considering it was the last flight of the night and they ended up paying for transportation, hotel and I hope meals too.

I think the only way the agent would have held the flight is that if someone higher up in operations or whatever it is called at US Airways specifically took the responsibility to delay the flight. It is not something the agent can do on their own without getting in hot water.

In any case, if the agent had misconnects or oversales from an earlier flight then it was a bonus for them to get the people on the plane and get it out.

It stinks but that is just how it is now.

I think the only way the agent would have held the flight is that if someone higher up in operations or whatever it is called at US Airways specifically took the responsibility to delay the flight. It is not something the agent can do on their own without getting in hot water.



Seriously? I mean that gate agent knew my wife's plane had landed. They pushed away from the gate before the stated departure time. They couldn't have waited 5 stinking minutes for her to make it to the plane? I ain't buying it. If a plane leaves a gate 5 or even 10 minutes late I doubt quite seriously that the gate agent gets called on the carpet; it happens all the time. And having atleast one pax that was 5 minutes away from boarding the flight?

And it does matther if it was full or not. The simple fact they pushed away from the gate early - especially if they were full - means they used this tactic to keep from paying involuntary denied boarding.

How should I go about handling compensation for this? I'm also wondering if the flight (373) wasn't sold out and they needed her seat and just took it. That would explain why they pushed back early. Is there any way to find out if US 373 from CLT to DFW was full tonight?

I'm thoroughly hacked off here. Any advice (other than don't fly US) as far as how to tackle this?

There's a reason that US has the best on-time performance. For most of us, getting the flight out on time 95% of the time beats the 5% chance that we'll misconnect when we're running late - regardless of the reason.

In order to depart on-time, the doors need to close early. The contract of carriage states:
It is US Airways’ policy to close the boarding doors ten minutes prior and the aircraft doors five minutes prior to scheduled departure. This policy may not apply to US Airways Shuttle flights.

That seems to be exactly what they did. There is no compensation due.

Certainly not your wife's fault - but delays happen. Not sure how not flying on US would avoid this situation in the future. From your profile, it seems that your main carrier is AA. Here's what AA has to say about the same situation:
You must be present at the departure gate and ready to board at least 15 minutes prior to scheduled departure time to retain your reservation and a seat. American does not guarantee to provide any particular seat on the aircraft.

If airlines like US and AA always waited until the last minute, flights would frequently be delayed. That would cause further delays in (re-)printing the manifest, closing the luggage compartment (in case of gate checked bags), etc.

Ultimately, your wife received a hotel voucher and got rebooked for the morning & the other 120 passengers on the flight get to their destination on time. That's exactly what is supposed to happen in situations like you described.

Ultimately, your wife received a hotel voucher and got rebooked for the morning & the other 120 passengers on the flight get to their destination on time. That's exactly what is supposed to happen in situations like you described.

The flight into DFW arrived 6 minutes early. Had the gate agent simply waited for the connecting pax from that plane - prob only my wife - all 120 passengers would have still arrived on time.

You seem to disagree with US' policies. The boarding agent at the airport did nothing contrary to those. I guess you could advise US that you disagree with their policy, but I'm not sure how far that's going to get you. After all, when the ticket was purchased, the contract of carriage was agreed to.

Again, by waiting an extra 10 minutes for your wife (and how would they know how fast she walks, if she stopped on the way to the gate, etc), there would have been a further delay to print a new manifest. Ultimately, if they didn't close the aircraft gate at -10 and door at -5, but rather closed the gate at +0 and door at +5, then the flight would have arrived late. Airlines have to draw the line in the sand somewhere. US is very clear on where that line is. Overall, that's a huge benefit to travelling with US. I don't agree with all of their policies, but this one is a win for the consumer.

FYI I checked Southwest's contract of carriage as well, and they also have a 10 minute rule.

That seems to be exactly what they did. There is no compensation due.

Certainly not your wife's fault - but delays happen. Not sure how not flying on US would avoid this situation in the future. From your profile, it seems that your main carrier is AA. Here's what AA has to say about the same situation:

Yes, AFTER his wife fought with US and went to a different agent.

First agent lied about it being weather and didn't bother to check for sure and/or couldn't be bothered.

Most airlines I've dealt with have ensured that there was space available at the hotel before sending me there.

Yes, he found some who ultimately helped him, but the first agent refused and the second caused her to come back to the airport to get booked somewhere else.

Is that worth a lot of compensation, no, but her experience was certainly not how it should happen.

Maybe some miles or a $50 off cert or something like that for the hassle.

As annoying as it is when this happens to me, I understand their reasons for sending the plane on its way regardless. That being said, I think more than half of the OP's acrimony could have been avoided had the gate agent acknowledged that it was a mechanical issue that caused the original delay and issued a hotel voucher without the runaround. (Saying it was her fault for not being there earlier is a bit of salt on the wound, too.) Delays happen, but I think good customer service can diffuse a lot of the resulting annoyance on the part of the traveler.

The flight attendants saying that all flights would be fine probably didn't help matters either, but I think that's minor by comparison.

OM

Yes, AFTER his wife fought with US and went to a different agent.

First agent lied about it being weather and didn't bother to check for sure and/or couldn't be bothered.

Most airlines I've dealt with have ensured that there was space available at the hotel before sending me there.

Yes, he found some who ultimately helped him, but the first agent refused and the second caused her to come back to the airport to get booked somewhere else.

Is that worth a lot of compensation, no, but her experience was certainly not how it should happen.

Maybe some miles or a $50 off cert or something like that for the hassle.

^ +1

Ultimately, if they didn't close the aircraft gate at -10 and door at -5, but rather closed the gate at +0 and door at +5, then the flight would have arrived late. Airlines have to draw the line in the sand somewhere. US is very clear on where that line is. Overall, that's a huge benefit to travelling with US. I don't agree with all of their policies, but this one is a win for the consumer.

FYI I checked Southwest's contract of carriage as well, and they also have a 10 minute rule.

Glad you brought up Southwest. Over the last 10 years I've been on many, many last flight outs on WN (I'm not a WN apologist, I assure you). I would guess that we've sat at the gate for 15 minutes past departure more than a 25 times over those 10 years waiting for weather or mechanically delayed pax.

Now one might say it was because WN didn't want to put anyone up in a hotel or incur the other costs involved with this sort of problem. And if it's weather there are no costs. I've never complained when they waited. Know why?

Many of those delayed pax are wives and husbands, mothers and fathers or just folk who what to get home or wherever they're going that night. A FEW extra minutes won't hurt. And too, I've been that tired sole who wanted to get home that night and was the last to board after being delayed.

Nothing sounds quite so good as "Yes sir, Mr. xxxx, we've been waiting for you. Hurry on."

So making the conscious decision to NOT wait for someone who has arrived 5 minutes too late due to mechanical (more US's fault) is a win for the passenger?

NOT IN MY BOOK.

Yes, AFTER his wife fought with US and went to a different agent.

First agent lied about it being weather and didn't bother to check for sure and/or couldn't be bothered.

Most airlines I've dealt with have ensured that there was space available at the hotel before sending me there.

Yes, he found some who ultimately helped him, but the first agent refused and the second caused her to come back to the airport to get booked somewhere else.

Is that worth a lot of compensation, no, but her experience was certainly not how it should happen.

Maybe some miles or a $50 off cert or something like that for the hassle.

Thanks for noticing more of the problem than others here.

I wonder if Chuck and Cedric would be so nonchalant if they had been left by less than 5 minutes, then lied to and blamed, then to top it off, given the runaround (literally and figuritively) regarding a room. Bet not.

I will be working on my wife's behalf for compensation. I know most people on this board don't think she is entitled to much.

If the US rule is hard and fast (which I doubt very seriously) I think it is indeed a bad rule. Common sense has to play into these sorts of situations. These are people not simply cargo. But I think it says alot about that particular gate agent's attitude toward pax when she LIED about the reason for the late plane from BHM, told my wife it was her fault (WOW), and then that she was on her own as far as finding a place to sleep when she KNEW it was mechanical. That right there is egregious behavior.

No, I'll be encouraging my wife to seek more than token (50.00) compensation.

Agent was ambivilous to my wife's problem...

I don't know what this means. :confused:

The gate agent for the departing flight from CLT to DFW followed proper procedure and had the flight close its doors and push back on time. It does not matter if the flight was full or not. The real issue here is that you wife's inbound flight was delayed and she missed the connect. We can all say it would have been easy to hold the DFW flight for your wife but, as any experienced traveler can attest, that's the exception to the rule and you are lucky when it happens. It's not something one can expect compensation for when it does not.

As for the GA comments about your wife's inbound flight, it sounds like she misspoke or possibly gave a made-up answer about it being late because of weather. Bad move (IMO) on the GA's part and if this is what happened, it is inappropriate. The GA never should have involved herself in the issue other than to say the DFW flight closed its doors and left on time per policy and that your wife should go see the Special Services desk to address the issue. The GA for the DFW flight isn't authorized to give out hotel room vouchers so that conversation was likely begun in the heat of the moment and was a non-starter.

In the end, she was given overnight accommodation (not sure what to think about the first hotel being full issue). That said, I don't see much here to warrant significant compensation.

Thanks for noticing more of the problem than others here.

I wonder if Chuck and Cedric would be so nonchalant if they had been left by less than 5 minutes, then lied to and blamed, then to top it off, given the runaround (literally and figuritively) regarding a room. Bet not.

I will be working on my wife's behalf for compensation. I know most people on this board don't think she is entitled to much.

If the US rule is hard and fast (which I doubt very seriously) I think it is indeed a bad rule. Common sense has to play into these sorts of situations. These are people not simply cargo. But I think it says alot about that particular gate agent's attitude toward pax when she LIED about the reason for the late plane from BHM, told my wife it was her fault (WOW), and then that she was on her own as far as finding a place to sleep when she KNEW it was mechanical. That right there is egregious behavior.

No, I'll be encouraging my wife to seek more than token (50.00) compensation.

I threw out the $50 figure as I know US tends to be cheap. Also, as with most airlines, what you get depends on status with the airline. If you can get more, more power to you. I just don't think US is going to offer a GM much. If she has status, it's not obvious and she may do better.

UA used to be ridiculously generous with compensation, especially if you're a 1K. I once got a $250 voucher simply because I sent my F meal back because it was gross. Not bad on a $290 L fare mileage run. :D

That said, I understand your wife's frustation as I've had UA pull that crap on me. I was in SLC and the incoming flight from SFO which was to be our flight to DEN was delayed for ramp reasons (I checked UA's site and saw). Well, we were about to board and then got put on ground hold due to weather in DEN and were delayed about another 30 minutes. Once we boarded, the FAs swore up and down that connections would be held, blah blah. I was skeptical but they insisted. So what happens when we get to DEN and I get to my plane? Door's closed and I'm SOL. Fortunately, the "earlier" flight was delayed and hadn't left yet so I was able to get on that. I was traveling with a 4 year old and had just run thru the airport to see the door closed, so I can sympathize with the fun she had.

When I got home, I complained to UA. I focused on 2 two things: that the incoming flight from SFO was delayed due to UA's fault and secondly, that the FAs were adamant that connections would be held. Had the incoming flight left on time, we would have left on time and never would have hit the weather delay. I ended up getting compensated.

I'm not sure how US will react, but your situation is very similar to mine. Focus on the mechanical setting the whole thing on motion, and the promises as secondary. Then hit the first GA's attitude and lie.

Good luck.

mile ho-

you're clearly very upset about this situation, and at least partially justified in your frustration. However, you'll probably get farther if you calm down about the whole saga and focus in on the couple of areas where US really did make a mistake. If you drop the melodramatic sob story and interact with the airline level-headedly on where the airline actually made a mistake, you'll probably get more traction.

I know it sucks, but you just need to forget about the fact that they closed the door to your wife's flight. They followed their policy correctly and had no obligation to hold it for your wife. It doesn't matter that they could have if they really wanted to. The fact is that they didn't really want to, and they're not going to pay you for that.

The real breakdown was the customer service after the fact. The GA shouldn't have lied to your wife. Unless she knew for sure what the situation was, she probably should have just told her that she didn't know the exact situation but that she should take her boarding passes to customer service so that the situation could be resolved. Instead she lied (or was misinformed, or something) and got the runaround about getting a hotel room. You might be able to get some compensation here.

As for the full hotel, that was probably just laziness on the part of whoever printed the voucher. I'm guessing they're able to just print a voucher that you can just take to the hotel, and they don't have to check the hotel's availability before printing the voucher. They might have been a bit lazy, and they could have handled it a bit better, but they didn't do something totally ridiculous and absurd.

Your biggest problem here is that ultimately US followed the CoC and correctly provided overnight accommodation. Your wife was just unlucky enough to get some poor customer service along the way.

So, rather than calling and yelling at someone about sending a flight out, why not call/email and explain why you were significantly disappointed with the customer service experience and that you'd like them to help make you whole for the hassle they caused. My guess is this strategy will get you a lot farther - but I still wouldn't expect hundreds of dollars or thousands of miles

It can happen both ways whether they hold the connecting flight or not. Just last week I was flying PHL-PHX-SLC. The flight out of PHL was delayed at least 45 minutes. US held the connecting flight gate open in PHX at least 10 minutes past departure time (I'm not really sure how long). Now that may have been because there were at least 6 people making that connection and adjusting all of their itineraries may have been difficult for US.

I'm sure there is a cost-benefit analysis for what US does and sorry your wife came out on the unlucky side of that.

mile ho-

you're clearly very upset about this situation, and at least partially justified in your frustration. However, you'll probably get farther if you calm down about the whole saga and focus in on the couple of areas where US really did make a mistake. If you drop the melodramatic sob story and interact with the airline level-headedly on where the airline actually made a mistake, you'll probably get more traction.

I know it sucks, but you just need to forget about the fact that they closed the door to your wife's flight. They followed their policy correctly and had no obligation to hold it for your wife. It doesn't matter that they could have if they really wanted to. The fact is that they didn't really want to, and they're not going to pay you for that.

The real breakdown was the customer service after the fact. The GA shouldn't have lied to your wife. Unless she knew for sure what the situation was, she probably should have just told her that she didn't know the exact situation but that she should take her boarding passes to customer service so that the situation could be resolved. Instead she lied (or was misinformed, or something) and got the runaround about getting a hotel room. You might be able to get some compensation here.

As for the full hotel, that was probably just laziness on the part of whoever printed the voucher. I'm guessing they're able to just print a voucher that you can just take to the hotel, and they don't have to check the hotel's availability before printing the voucher. They might have been a bit lazy, and they could have handled it a bit better, but they didn't do something totally ridiculous and absurd.

Your biggest problem here is that ultimately US followed the CoC and correctly provided overnight accommodation. Your wife was just unlucky enough to get some poor customer service along the way.

So, rather than calling and yelling at someone about sending a flight out, why not call/email and explain why you were significantly disappointed with the customer service experience and that you'd like them to help make you whole for the hassle they caused. My guess is this strategy will get you a lot farther - but I still wouldn't expect hundreds of dollars or thousands of miles

THIS!!
Excellent post!

I wonder if Chuck and Cedric would be so nonchalant if they had been left by less than 5 minutes, then lied to and blamed, then to top it off, given the runaround (literally and figuritively) regarding a room. Bet not.

It's happened to me. I just take it in stride. I've got travel insurance, so I just go check into the hotel of my choice and get it reimbursed later on. All part of the experience.

It certainly is correct that I focussed on the aircraft leaving on time, and not the other customer service failures that occurred. This seemed to be your primary complaint, and I was trying to diffuse the situation somewhat. The word "egregious" implies specific anger, which I (still) believe to be unwarranted. In fact, I agree 100% with RZachSmith's reply.

You mentioned that Southwest often holds the last flight of the day for connections for 15 minutes or longer. How they operate is their privilege, but you can be sure that if they had a reputation for that, many customers would book other flights to not risk getting home late because of poor weather on the other side of the country. That 15 minute delay could easily mean that those husbands, wives, etc that were on time later miss the last shuttle or train home from the airport at their destination, or have to wait for the next one which departs an hour later. No policy is going to cover every possible situation.

Perhaps what might help in this exercise is if you proposed a new policy. “Waiting a few minutes for connecting passengers” is very ambiguous. Likewise, waiting for up to 15 minutes would surely upset the person who arrived 16 minutes late due to a mechanical delay, not to mention affect the other passengers that did arrive on time. What would your suggestion be for a policy that negatively impacts the fewest number of people, and does not have negative cost implications for the airline (and therefore, future ticket prices & feasibility of certain flights)?

Yet another example of common sense and common courtesy being in short supply in our society.

Given it was the last flight out a little leeway should have been given. NOT 15-20 minutes but 5 or 10 would have IMO been appropriate because they would have been able to push back in the 0-14 departure bracket and been shown as leaving "on-Time"

Once that opportunity was blown there should have been a much better response to picking up the ball that was dropped. It didn't happen.

One thing no one has brought up here is Executive Compensation. All US Senior Executive Bonuses are calculated based upon the DOT performance metrics such as on time departure. So given this tidbit did you really expect US to favor the customer? US Airways Customer Unfriendly attitude is tied directly to Doug Parker's bonus, adjust your expectations accordingly.

Just a question for the OP--

If your wife doesn't fly that much, why would you/whoever made the arrangements have sent her out on an airline she doesn't use with an out-of-the-way connection?

I just did a quick scan on aa.com. They have 3 BHM-DFW nonstop flights/day. Even if price was an issue, if I'm sending someone not familiar with how things go, I'd splurge for the convience of the nonstop.

Without a connection, this whole thread is a moot point.

Airlines these days don't wait for connections because they prioritize on-time departures (Southwest is actually an exception to the rule), and if you're not at your gate 15 minutes before departure, you can safely assume you're missing your flight.

(FWIW, it's not just executive pay that gets adjusted for on-time departures- pay bonuses throughout the company will end up related to on-time.)

RZachSmith is exactly right. The problem was the customer service after the fact of the missed connection. I'd play up this angle.

One thing no one has brought up here is Executive Compensation. All US Senior Executive Bonuses are calculated based upon the DOT performance metrics such as on time departure. So given this tidbit did you really expect US to favor the customer? US Airways Customer Unfriendly attitude is tied directly to Doug Parker's bonus, adjust your expectations accordingly.

Of course, US pays Executive Bonuses that way because it believes the on-time performance is a significant factor in selling tickets. The media makes a big deal about airline rankings based on those DOT metrics, and the public seems to listen. If more people put more priority on the pleasantness of their travel experience when buying tickets, then airlines would make that more of their focus. However, as long as people buy tickets largely on the lowest base ticket cost and on perceptions from what they read in the media about DOT statistics, then that's what the airlines will care about.

Of course, US pays Executive Bonuses that way because it believes the on-time performance is a significant factor in selling tickets. The media makes a big deal about airline rankings based on those DOT metrics, and the public seems to listen. If more people put more priority on the pleasantness of their travel experience when buying tickets, then airlines would make that more of their focus. However, as long as people buy tickets largely on the lowest base ticket cost and on perceptions from what they read in the media about DOT statistics, then that's what the airlines will care about.

Of course?

It wasn't always the case. Their deals got re-done after the res migration by the board. You act like I was being critical. I just don't care for the hypocrisy of it. They want you to think Customer Service/Satisfaction is a priority when clearly it isn't. Do all airlines compensate this way? I've no idea, I just know one does and as a result you need to factor that into your purchase decision.

One of the reasons I'm not down on Spirit and actually use them is they are in your face, make no bones about what you get which is a seat for your meat and everything else you pay additional for. This is their policy and they don't budge. I respect them for that. Don't like or agree with it most of the time, however they are exactly who they say they are, nothing more nothing less. The majors should be so crystal clear.

Just a question for the OP--

If your wife doesn't fly that much, why would you/whoever made the arrangements have sent her out on an airline she doesn't use with an out-of-the-way connection?

I just did a quick scan on aa.com. They have 3 BHM-DFW nonstop flights/day. Even if price was an issue, if I'm sending someone not familiar with how things go, I'd splurge for the convience of the nonstop.

Without a connection, this whole thread is a moot point.

She made her own arrangements and it was the latest flight she could take out of BHM that day home to DFW. The AA flight was too early for her to make comfortably with her meetings.

It's happened to me. I just take it in stride. I've got travel insurance, so I just go check into the hotel of my choice and get it reimbursed later on. All part of the experience.

It certainly is correct that I focussed on the aircraft leaving on time, and not the other customer service failures that occurred. This seemed to be your primary complaint, and I was trying to diffuse the situation somewhat. The word "egregious" implies specific anger, which I (still) believe to be unwarranted. In fact, I agree 100% with RZachSmith's reply.



So being lied to, blamed and then run around on a carelessly-issued hotel voucher is all part of the experience? And you'd be just okay, taking it ALL in stride, if you were lied to and blamed? Really?

Anytime an employee of a company lies to a customer and then blames them for what their company has caused, this is egregious in my book. Don't really know another name for it.

Yet another example of common sense and common courtesy being in short supply in our society.

Given it was the last flight out a little leeway should have been given. NOT 15-20 minutes but 5 or 10 would have IMO been appropriate because they would have been able to push back in the 0-14 departure bracket and been shown as leaving "on-Time"



Thank you. None of this would have happened if they had shown just a hair of common decency and sense. The flight arrived DFW 6 minutes early and pushed away CLT 2 minutes early (apparently right when my wife showed up at the gate). Without a doubt, the GA knew my wife was a handful of minutes from making it to the gate for departure but sent the flight anyway.

To some of the others: say all you want about CoC. There remains a moral responsibility to take care of the pax you've sold tickets to. And if that means you leave 5 minutes late versus 2 minutes early (and still arrive on time) it's not only right but smart. But as it played out last night, US = FAIL.

Thank you. None of this would have happened if they had shown just a hair of common decency and sense. The flight arrived DFW 6 minutes early and pushed away CLT 2 minutes early (apparently right when my wife showed up at the gate). Without a doubt, the GA knew my wife was a handful of minutes from making it to the gate for departure but sent the flight anyway.

To some of the others: say all you want about CoC. There remains a moral responsibility to take care of the pax you've sold tickets to. And if that means you leave 5 minutes late versus 2 minutes early (and still arrive on time) it's not only right but smart. But as it played out last night, US = FAIL.

Well in this day & age you're lucky if you can get a business to uphold their legal obligations under a contract much less the "spirit" or "moral obligation" of same contract. Today it's what you can prove in court, nothing else matters.

That said, your recourse is to contact US Airways and professionally as possible state your case as to why your wife should be compensated. Be prepared to get nothing as they did ultimately follow the CoC. The manner in which they did so is the only card you have to play IMO.

Thank you. None of this would have happened if they had shown just a hair of common decency and sense. The flight arrived DFW 6 minutes early and pushed away CLT 2 minutes early (apparently right when my wife showed up at the gate). Without a doubt, the GA knew my wife was a handful of minutes from making it to the gate for departure but sent the flight anyway.

I'm not an apologist for US, but US had no way of knowing that your wife would sprint, OJ-like, through the huge CLT airport in an attempt to minimize the inconvenience to the other passengers already on-board the CLT-DFW flight. Gate agents probably have years of experience of late-arriving connecting passengers lollygagging and shuffling their way even when late.

I've seen it myself: a few times, I have sprinted several thousand feet at ORD or DFW to attempt to make a connection when weather or maintenance or ATC issues screw up my plans only to miss the flight by moments or a minute or two. As an experienced flyer, I get on the phone to the elite desk to make new plans. More than once, I've been at the gate 5-10-20 minutes later when others who were on my delayed flight strolled up, angry that the plane wasn't held for them. The US gate agents had no idea how long it would take her to get to the gate, and it's ridiculous to blame them for not holding the flight.

I'm sorry that your wife's plans were scuttled and that she was mistreated by US after her ill-advised, self-made travel plans blew up in her face, but US did not fail her by closing out the DFW flight and sending it out on time (or even a minute or two early) - the failure was in the way US treated a non-status passenger (assumption on my part) after things went wrong.

Without a doubt, the GA knew my wife was a handful of minutes from making it to the gate for departure but sent the flight anyway.

To some of the others: say all you want about CoC. There remains a moral responsibility to take care of the pax you've sold tickets to.

Moral responsibility, common decency, without a doubt, egregious... all this sounds overwrought to me. I wouldn't put that in any complaint, though I imagine you need to blow off steam...

I see it as a little more of a gray area than you do, as it wasn't my wife on that plane: airlines make it pretty clear if you're not at the gate, the flight's not likely to be held for late connections these days of wanting to plug DOT stats, and after the nonsense at CLT your wife did get the treatment she should have. I think you have legitimate customer service issues around this and would probably pursue those, but don't get your hopes up that there'll be some big pile of compensation or change in practice.

If all you want is some FT cheerleading for your point of view, without any contrary opinions, though, I suppose all I can do is wish you good luck.

Moral responsibility, common decency, without a doubt, egregious... all this sounds overwrought to me. I wouldn't put that in any complaint, though I imagine you need to blow off steam...

I see it as a little more of a gray area than you do, as it wasn't my wife on that plane: airlines make it pretty clear if you're not at the gate, the flight's not likely to be held for late connections these days of wanting to plug DOT stats, and after the nonsense at CLT your wife did get the treatment she should have. I think you have legitimate customer service issues around this and would probably pursue those, but don't get your hopes up that there'll be some big pile of compensation or change in practice.

If all you want is some FT cheerleading for your point of view, without any contrary opinions, though, I suppose all I can do is wish you good luck.

I wasn't expecting all cheerleaders here, though being lied to and blamed, while getting a ridiculous run around about a hotel at 11 pm, complete with useless cab ride, I thought would garner a unanimous FAIL vote.

I'm still wanting to know if the flight went out full. Can that be found on something like Expert Flyer? Some have said it doesn't matter, but to me it does. They left the gate BEFORE the scheduled departure time while my wife was whole-heartedly trying to make that connection. I could make a little more concession if they held the plane until it was actually time to leave. But the fact that they didn't, while some had a chance to make the connection, is wrong. They shouldn't have left even a minute early while people had a chance to make it.

I wasn't expecting all cheerleaders here, though being lied to and blamed, while getting a ridiculous run around about a hotel at 11 pm, complete with useless cab ride, I thought would garner a unanimous FAIL vote.

I don't think anyone here said anything in support of the "lies" regarding the reason for the flight delay or the full hotel. If you are looking for 100% support on those issues, it seems you've got it.

I'm still wanting to know if the flight went out full. Can that be found on something like Expert Flyer? Some have said it doesn't matter, but to me it does. They left the gate BEFORE the scheduled departure time while my wife was whole-heartedly trying to make that connection. I could make a little more concession if they held the plane until it was actually time to leave. But the fact that they didn't, while some had a chance to make the connection, is wrong. They shouldn't have left even a minute early while people had a chance to make it.

Whether the flight was full or empty is irrelevant. IDB doesn't apply if you fail to present yourself at the gate, ready to board, at least 15 minutes prior to scheduled depature time.

Your wife was not at the gate or onboard the airplane 15 minutes before scheduled departure time, and thus her confirmed seat and reservation was subject to cancellation by US. She left herself a mere 27 minutes from the scheduled arrival time of her BHM-CLT flight until the time when US was free to off-load her from the CLT-DFW flight. For all we know, her seat was given away at 9:56 pm, before her BHM-CLT flight was parked at its gate.

She didn't arrive at the DFW flight gate with two minutes to spare, she arrived at the gate 13 minutes late. To be sure, it was the fault of US that she didn't get there on time, but her legitimate grievance is in the way she was treated once she became an overnight passenger at CLT.

I don't think anyone here said anything in support of the "lies" regarding the reason for the flight delay or the full hotel. If you are looking for 100% support on those issues, it seems you've got it.

Agreed. The OP keeps tying both together, which I think is part of the issue here. Sucks to be provided false information and given the runaround. None of us disagree. However, the passenger gave US the opportunity to correct that, and they did. If they hadn't, we would be having a different conversation.

As for the time that the aircraft departed, look at it this way. If they closed the jetway 11 minutes prior to departure time, or closed the aircraft door 6 minutes before, then yes, they closed up early. But as far as we know, that didn't happen. From the information that we have, everything closed on time, and that allowed the aircraft to leave the gate a couple minutes early. Regardless of if it had sat there for another two minutes, the door was already closed and would not have been reopened.

Again, feel free to suggest another policy for debate that would work better from an overall operating perspective. You haven't done so yet, so we haven't had the opportunity to examine if it truly is better. Perhaps if we get the chance to look at that as a community, we can fine tune it, and you can send it in with your complaint.

I'm sorry that your wife's plans were scuttled and that she was mistreated by US after her ill-advised, self-made travel plans blew up in her face, but US did not fail her by closing out the DFW flight and sending it out on time (or even a minute or two early) - the failure was in the way US treated a non-status passenger (assumption on my part) after things went wrong.

I don't know how you can actually think departing a minute or two early is acceptable while people are trying to make extrordinarily close connections, especially for a last flight out. Taking away one minute is bad and taking another - which is exactly what US did - is worse. Two minutes, when making a very close connection can mean all the difference in the world. There was no reason to depart early unless they were full and didn't want anyone additional showing up with a valid boarding pass.

They made an intentional decision to leave early while at least one person was trying to make that connection.

Again, feel free to suggest another policy for debate that would work better from an overall operating perspective. You haven't done so yet, so we haven't had the opportunity to examine if it truly is better. Perhaps if we get the chance to look at that as a community, we can fine tune it, and you can send it in with your complaint.

Common sense should dictate some measure of a wait here. You know as well as I do that there is no hard and fast rule that says the flight MUST be closed at a certain time. It can be held. The GA knew that at least one pax came in on that mechanically delayed flight. If she had simply held for an appropriate time to allow that one (or however many) to arrive at the departure gate it still would have allowed the flight to leave no more than 3-5 minutes late, which by DOT is still on-time.

I don't know how you make a rule that is hard and fast. I don't think it could or should be done. But when delaying departure for one or more pax that won't affect the on-time departure or arrival, it simply makes sense to try to accomodate that paying customer/s.

And yes, I do know the egregious part of my argument remains how things were handled afterward. But with some common sense upfront (and some caring for the pax who are very slightly delayed) none of this would have happened.

Agent was ambivilous to my wife's problem...


I don't know what this means. :confused:



Neither do I. Perhaps it's some mix of ambivalent and oblivious.

And sorry, don't see what the fuss is about. All airlines do this, and no-one should ever accept the weather excuse without validating what a GA tells them. Truth does not necessarily abound in GA/pax interactions. Sometimes "what can I say that will make them go away" overrides the truth reflex.

I don't know how you can actually think departing a minute or two early is acceptable while people are trying to make extrordinarily close connections, especially for a last flight out. Taking away one minute is bad and taking another - which is exactly what US did - is worse. Two minutes, when making a very close connection can mean all the difference in the world.

Sorry, OP, but you keep hammering the same point over and over, and I wasn't going to say anything but...

You seem most angry over the 2 minute thing - your wife's watch read 10:09, while stated departure was 10:11. Isn't it very likely that your wife's watch and US's "watch" were not 100% in sync, and isn't it at least POSSIBLE your wife's watch was the less accurate of the two? If your wife's watch is the one time-keeper by which all time on the planet should be measured, maybe you could pursue that argument with US. But for the reasons others have stated repeatedly, it's probably best that you let that one go, and focus on the weather/mechanical issue and the hotel.

I think you should ask for $2500 cash

A few things jump out at me in this thread.

First is the title, "Egregious US Behavior". A catchy phrase which made me chuckle since it clearly signals someone is digging in for a rugby scrum here.

Now I'm entirely sensitive to the frustration you feel as it's not a great situation for anyone to be in. But the real point as others here try to point out is that you've got to take into account how airlines function in reality with or without irregular ops. This is the paradigm which determines what happens, why it happens and what is or is not possible. No need for smoking gun theories about "stealing" seats etc. It's not an egrerious situation, it's a flight ops issue.

Remember, you're speaking here on behalf of your wife when you insist that the GAs at BHM give assurances which the FAs suppossedly concur with. No one here knows exactly what was said and there is an element of he said - she said which may not tell the whole story.

Not trying to play Monday morning QB here, but once on the plane, I might have specifically asked the FAs about what is going to happen to my connecting flight. I've been on lots of delayed flights where the FAs talk to the cockpit who in turn provides real information about what is and what is not possible. Frequently I've seen US have agents waiting as you debark ready to point you in the right direction during a tight connection. Another factor here is at which gate does the BHM flight arrive and where was the DFW gate located ( same terminal? different terminal? ). This too could a factor in the "big picture" as the ops people make their decisions.

Ops issues are always dynamic situations, so any airline is going to respond differently op situation by op situation. Ultimately, it's usually best for an airline to try to make these connects as it's cheaper to the airline ( economic alturism ;) ) but this does not mean it's gonna happen in every intance.

I'm a little fuzzy about the GA's comments about being late & offering no help etc. Once again, there's a lack of full context here as at 10PM things are winding down at most airports and it could be a challenge to find an open service desk with folks who know how to distill pax problems. Then again, a GA might have given the wrong information. The good news is that the service desk was open and there's someone who provides the correct help which in the absence of a flight out after a mx ops delay means a hotel room and a flight out the next day.

This thread can go on and on, but I think other FTers have shared earnest insights about what happened and why. Hopefully your wife got settled in the hotel and finally gets home in good stead. But I'd be wont to suggest that US is inept or conniving or that anything egregious happens. The aviation gods threw the dice & your wife ( unfortunately ) drew the snake eyes. It happens occassionally -- though I do relate to the frustration at the gate to see that she misses the flight by minutes. Then again, others have stories about those terminal sprints where they make the plane just as the door closes. It's always about the journey; good, bad, or indifferent.

Barry

The GA knew that at least one pax came in on that mechanically delayed flight. If she had simply held for an appropriate time to allow that one (or however many) to arrive at the departure gate it still would have allowed the flight to leave no more than 3-5 minutes late, which by DOT is still on-time.

Again, as others have written, while the GA may have been aware of your wife's late flight, he or she had absolutely NO WAY of knowing how long it would take your wife to get to the gate, unless your wife had a US employee running along beside her, providing live updates to the GA. I'm guessing that was not the case. Your wife could have stopped off for a bathroom emergency; she could have gotten lost; she might not be a fast runner; maybe she's a fast runner, but she fell and injured herself; maybe she could have said, "To hell with this. I'm going to the bar to get a drink." Or a million other scenarios that make it impossible for the GA to calculate her progress from point A to point B.

Sorry, OP, but you keep hammering the same point over and over, and I wasn't going to say anything but...

You seem most angry over the 2 minute thing - your wife's watch read 10:09, while stated departure was 10:11. Isn't it very likely that your wife's watch and US's "watch" were not 100% in sync, and isn't it at least POSSIBLE your wife's watch was the less accurate of the two? If your wife's watch is the one time-keeper by which all time on the planet should be measured, maybe you could pursue that argument with US. But for the reasons others have stated repeatedly, it's probably best that you let that one go, and focus on the weather/mechanical issue and the hotel.

US website showed 10.09 as actual departure time with scheduled at 10.11 (I have screenshot), so it wasn't just her watch. But her watch must have been accurate as that's when US showed their departure. And yes, I do think it is wrong to depart early when people are trying to make a very close connection.

Look, this discussion is not really going anywhere at the present. I'll probably call them tomorrow, or Friday for sure, and see how it goes. And I agree with the consensus that the part that should be focused on is how it was mishandled. I will bring up the fact that they did leave early while my wife was trying to make the connection. No one can convince me that departing early was the right thing to do.

I want to thank everyone who contributed to the thread and my questions. I'll let post on later on how it comes out.

BTW, not angry or upset at anyone here. I just don't see eye to eye with many who think it was okay to push away early while people were on the ground, trying to make a very close connection.

I'm sort of with the OP on this one: there's no reason US agents could have not contacted any of the respective GA's and told them that passenger X is on her way and to hold the door. The flight left either early or exactly on time, another 10 mins would have resulted in an on-time departure and made for a very happy passenger. For flights running late, well they could just close up and depart but have the GA call back to say they can't wait, sorry. If US is too cheep to provide reliable communication gear, then just let them use cellphones.

The fact that US doesn't apparently care to handle irregular ops professionally is their fault and they should be held accountable imo.

The fact that US doesn't apparently care to handle irregular ops professionally is their fault and they should be held accountable imo.

But Gary, under the CoC US technically did nothing wrong. Crappy customer service? ABSOLUTELY.

sky is blue, grass is green.

under the CoC US technically did nothing wrong.

No argument there - the OP would have very little chance of winning in any sort of legal proceeding. Unfortunately it's probably just a matter of bean counting: the cost of hotel rooms/meals vs. pro-actively working with passengers and holding late evening departures. Of course, there are often outside parties that determine what can be inserted into a CoC, although I wouldn't be expecting much improvement in the near term.

The OP doesn't get it--focusing on the departure time is irrelevant. The boarding time/flight closeout time is what matters. I agree, though, that there were some customer service issues after the mis-connect in CLT.

No argument there - the OP would have very little chance of winning in any sort of legal proceeding. Unfortunately it's probably just a matter of bean counting: the cost of hotel rooms/meals vs. pro-actively working with passengers and holding late evening departures. Of course, there are often outside parties that determine what can be inserted into a CoC, although I wouldn't be expecting much improvement in the near term.

So then we agree that a well written letter with the focus on the "sloppy" customer service/service recovery is where the OP stands the best chance of compensation.

To the OP: Keep the letter short, tight and on point. Remember the mark of a great company is how they respond when things do go wrong. Convince US to be great this time.

I'm telling you, hang on to the departure time thing and you will be dismissed out of hand with a BS explanation and a half-arsed apology form letter that will annoy you more than you are now.

The OP doesn't get it--focusing on the departure time is irrelevant. The boarding time/flight closeout time is what matters. I agree, though, that there were some customer service issues after the mis-connect in CLT.

No, actually I do get it. The closeout time and the departure time are directly correlated. One has to happen and then the other can happen; so they are indeed correlated, therefore it is not as you say, 'irrelevant'. Closeout can be done very, very quickly and could have been delayed until the very last minute and still pushaway right afterward. The simple fact that they departed early means also that they could have waited an additional 2 minutes or more to do the closeout and still have left right on time. They simply chose not to.

mile ho you do not get it, if they had waited for your wife to get there the aircraft would have been delayed up to 8 min. the door does not just simply shut and boom they are off the gate, paperwork needs to be filled out signed, doors closed correct counts, so then they would have been 2 min. late getting into dfw which might not seem like a big deal but is, as that plane might have to turn around and go some where's else you don't know if it stays there or not. and how was the ga suppose to know your wife was coming? how long was she suppose to wait for your wife??

So then we agree that a well written letter with the focus on the "sloppy" customer service/service recovery is where the OP stands the best chance of compensation.

To the OP: Keep the letter short, tight and on point. Remember the mark of a great company is how they respond when things do go wrong. Convince US to be great this time.

I'm telling you, hang on to the departure time thing and you will be dismissed out of hand with a BS explanation and a half-arsed apology form letter that will annoy you more than you are now.

Honestly, I get it about not hammering them on the departure. And I agree that the best route is to focus on the terrible CS that transpired afterward. They've given me a pretty big bullseye with their egregious handling of the aftermath.

I'm truly thankful for the advice. I'm going to call rather than write a letter, though. I know the person on the other end of the phone is my allie if I handle it right and I plan on doing just that.

Even though the departure time will not be the focus of my complaint, I find it reflects very poorly on their willingness to wait for the inconvenienced pax. Most on here want to harp on the time issue as a non-starter, even a non-issue. But to me, they had a choice to make and this regardless of the CoC. They could have taken the time to see that my wife made her connection and for whatever reason they simply chose not to care enough. The fact that they didn't wait until the last minute to leave says just that, if nothing else. That's my opinion. Everyone else's may differ.

Look, this discussion is not really going anywhere at the present. I'll probably call them tomorrow, or Friday for sure, and see how it goes. And I agree with the consensus that the part that should be focused on is how it was mishandled. I will bring up the fact that they did leave early while my wife was trying to make the connection. No one can convince me that departing early was the right thing to do.

Is your wife actually upset about this situation, or are you outraged on her behalf? It seems to me that she should be the one calling if she's upset with treatment that she received, not a third party. I would not be surprised if the airline is not interested in speaking with you about this issue since you are not the aggrieved party. I assume that she is capable of dealing with her own affairs.

I think you should ask for $2500 cash

AT LEAST. And his wife should be made automatic Chairman for life plus 500,000 miles for this "egregious behavior". :rolleyes:

No, actually I do get it.

OP, if you get it, then you know your wife should have been at the gate at boarding time/flight closeout time.

mile ho you do not get it, if they had waited for your wife to get there the aircraft would have been delayed up to 8 min. the door does not just simply shut and boom they are off the gate, paperwork needs to be filled out signed, doors closed correct counts, so then they would have been 2 min. late getting into dfw which might not seem like a big deal but is, as that plane might have to turn around and go some where's else you don't know if it stays there or not. and how was the ga suppose to know your wife was coming? how long was she suppose to wait for your wife??

Nice first post. The flight was last out. It went to DFW and sat there overnight.

I seriously don't know why I argue this point with those of you who don't see how US had a chance to help my wife out. That's all I'm saying. She was delayed due to mechanical, nonetheless. That is US fault. And if they had waited on her, I would bet they would have had a perfect on-time arrival.

I'm done posting here.

is your wife actually upset about this situation, or are you outraged on her behalf? It seems to me that she should be the one calling if she's upset with treatment that she received, not a third party. I would not be surprised if the airline is not interested in speaking with you about this issue since you are not the aggrieved party. I assume that she is capable of dealing with her own affairs.

+1



i'm done posting here.

+1 :)

Flight aware shows a Route that suggests they were being sent around weather in the CLT area. Then the plane arrives - at E16 can't get farther away and still be in the airport. After opening the door, that's going to leave about 5 minutes to get from the end of E to B3 before closing time.

OJ in his prime from the hertz commercial couldn't do it.

Not knowing how difficult it is to drill down and get the primary reason for the delay, the agent may have just glanced at the first record, seen weather, no room for you. Had a similar issue with DL special services and had to politely but firmly insist, they gave me a room eventually. Perhaps reading malice into what may be just lazy or not knowing how to get the info might be a bit much.

Ultimately, she got a room, Anything else would be gravy.

Don't know about later, but my wife's plane spent a half hour in The conga line around 8:30 last night at CLT. If they were told to go now or be stuck, they are gonna go.

Good luck, but I'd say you are tilting at a windmill

I agree with most of the "apologists". She WAS late.
BUT customer service after the fact, given the US role in her delay, was poor.

FWIW, I once held up a 747 in FRA. I was in the FCL and was taken for secondary screening to Terminal A/Z. We actually got to the gate, had to go OUT from the gate to the terminal to be screened and were then sent back. We found the doors closed and locked. The plane had started to draw back.
Luckily the LH agent opened the gates, brought the plane back and got the jetway bridge connected and we were able to get on. A very lucky New Year's day trip back. I guess an extra day in luxury in LH's dime would not have hurt us, but still...

I see the OPs frustration, but things happen Short connections are terrible. I never give less than 4-5 hrs in LAX for a trip to SYD /AKL and 5-6 for a trip from JFK. CLT is smaller, but a 30 min connection is tight.

Even an hour in CLT is a tight connection these days.... summer weather, etc. Not to totally take the sides of the GA, but if there had been weather in CLT earlier, then her answer was based more on what may have been true earlier. It did however demonstrate ignorance of the situation at the time the wife landed. I do agree the customer service could have been a little better.

I have received hotel vouchers at CLT before and don't recall them calling the hotels first.

And I avoid the last flight out like the plague.

I'm truly thankful for the advice. I'm going to call rather than write a letter, though. I know the person on the other end of the phone is my allie if I handle it right and I plan on doing just that.

Unfortunately, the only way to reach Customer Relations is using the form on the website, by fax or via mail.

http://www.usairways.com/en-US/contact/customer_relations.html

You could try submitting the form and asking them to telephone you, but I'm not sure they would do that as a matter of course.

Nice first post. The flight was last out. It went to DFW and sat there overnight.

I seriously don't know why I argue this point with those of you who don't see how US had a chance to help my wife out. That's all I'm saying. She was delayed due to mechanical, nonetheless. That is US fault. And if they had waited on her, I would bet they would have had a perfect on-time arrival.

I'm done posting here.

Um, it's not that many of us -- okay, I'll just speak for myself: It's not just that I "don't see how US had a chance to help [your] wife out." I do see it. [HOMESPUN PHILOSOPHY]But every day in every way there's no end of people who have a chance to "help us out." Some do, some don't. Most don't. They can't, almost by definition, since if everybody were helping everybody else out all the time .... That's why it feels so good on those odd occasions when somebody does help us out, in spite of the fact that they don't have to. But you'd be crazy to live your life counting on this every day in every way, or even just when you feel that you really, really need it. And you'd drive yourself crazy railing against all those who miss the opportunity to help you out.[/HOMESPUN PHILOSOPHY]

Unfortunately, the only way to reach Customer Relations is using the form on the website, by fax or via mail.

http://www.usairways.com/en-US/contact/customer_relations.html

You could try submitting the form and asking them to telephone you, but I'm not sure they would do that as a matter of course.

Or if you're lucky... twitter!

Seriously? I mean that gate agent knew my wife's plane had landed. They pushed away from the gate before the stated departure time. They couldn't have waited 5 stinking minutes for her to make it to the plane? I ain't buying it. If a plane leaves a gate 5 or even 10 minutes late I doubt quite seriously that the gate agent gets called on the carpet; it happens all the time. And having atleast one pax that was 5 minutes away from boarding the flight?

And it does matther if it was full or not. The simple fact they pushed away from the gate early - especially if they were full - means they used this tactic to keep from paying involuntary denied boarding.

I'm not sure what you want here. You have one data point and are asking for advice from a group with thousands of data points and intimate knowledge of US's policies. US's policy, like it or not, is clear and is part of your contract of carriage. They didn't deviate from it in leaving your wife behind. You aren't the first person, nor will you be the last, to see someone left behind and "explaining" your logic to US won't do much good....they've certainly received emails on this subject before (just like other airlines no doubt receive emails from people delayed when airplanes wait for connecting passengers).

Hi,

Though i am not a regular US airways flyer, however would be able to add few inputs. I agree that you are upset by the whole situation, however i am still unclear regarding the exact motive of this thread?

Have you checked on time performance of that flight on other days?

You would be surprised to see that it usually departs a minute or 2 earlier on other days. That more likely answers your question regarding overbooking.I don't think every day they overbook the flights and make people miss the connecting flights.Even the same aircraft departs earlier from other airports which shows US AIRWAYS IS REALLY GOOD AT ON TIME PERFORMANCE.

You could call and explain the inconvenience she had due to the mess up at the airport viz no rooms by the hotel and that wasted her time and might have been a big pain, however and unfortunately you cannot ask them to amend the policy or make exceptions these situations. FULL STOP.

Adding these points would DIVERT the conversation and would result in only an apology rather than a compensation and i am sure you are more upset about the compensation rather than the outcome of the situation. She missed the flight, US airways offered her hotel and then the next flight on the next day. What exactly could a customer ask for?

$250 coupon is not on cards......As you mentioned it's mechanical issue, she might get a $50 - $100 coupon depending upon how you convey your point to them.

Again this is not a rant, however if you are upset about how US airways handle this situation, then i am sure you haven't seen how MS or TK or even Air Asia ( i love this airline..lolz ) handle situations in mis connects / IRROPS.......Be advised status does help you to get a preference more often at few airports.......

Thanks and Regards
taran_2005

I'm sort of with the OP on this one: there's no reason US agents could have not contacted any of the respective GA's and told them that passenger X is on her way and to hold the door.

Yep, it's totally possible for a single agent to call up to 40 gates to let them all know not to close the door, because they have a single passenger coming to them less than 5 minutes to departure. Because that agent knows that every flight is capable of holding for up to 10 minutes because they'll all get right out and right into their destinations early.

Honestly, I get it about not hammering them on the departure. And I agree that the best route is to focus on the terrible CS that transpired afterward. They've given me a pretty big bullseye with their egregious handling of the aftermath.

I'm truly thankful for the advice. I'm going to call rather than write a letter, though. I know the person on the other end of the phone is my allie if I handle it right and I plan on doing just that.

Even though the departure time will not be the focus of my complaint, I find it reflects very poorly on their willingness to wait for the inconvenienced pax. Most on here want to harp on the time issue as a non-starter, even a non-issue. But to me, they had a choice to make and this regardless of the CoC. They could have taken the time to see that my wife made her connection and for whatever reason they simply chose not to care enough. The fact that they didn't wait until the last minute to leave says just that, if nothing else. That's my opinion. Everyone else's may differ.

Do yourself a favor. Use the e-mail portal to write your letter. US has a very good software that "Triages" complaints and gets you a very prompt reply. Writing will get you lost in the sauce and it may take weeks instead of days to get a reply. Just some friendly advice.

Yep, it's totally possible for a single agent to call up to 40 gates to let them all know not to close the door, because they have a single passenger coming to them less than 5 minutes to departure. Because that agent knows that every flight is capable of holding for up to 10 minutes because they'll all get right out and right into their destinations early.

Yep, you must work for US with that sort of anti-customer attitude.

Can't tell you the number of times I've had flights held for me in Europe.

It's really not a big deal IF you have proactive customer service along with a little technology.

Yep, you must work for US with that sort of anti-customer attitude.

Can't tell you the number of times I've had flights held for me in Europe.

It's really not a big deal IF you have proactive customer service along with a little technology.

Thank you for pointing this out. It's all about attitude towards the customer.

I wonder if a bit of cost benefit analysis would have done US better in this situation. As others have noted, this was the last departure of the night to DFW and that plane was going to RON in DFW. There is a 0.0001% chance that a passenger on that flight was going to misconnect.

So, if the plane was held by 2 or 7 minutes, it would not have affected anything except US's own internal T+ departure stats. It certainly would not have landed in the late column for DOT purposes.

Instead of waiting, US got an early departure in the books, earned some ill will from a customer and had to expend probably upwards of $150 in cabs and hotel vouchers.

What would Jesus do????

What would Jesus do????

Work for SQ! :p

I wonder if a bit of cost benefit analysis would have done US better in this situation. As others have noted, this was the last departure of the night to DFW and that plane was going to RON in DFW. There is a 0.0001% chance that a passenger on that flight was going to misconnect.

So, if the plane was held by 2 or 7 minutes, it would not have affected anything except US's own internal T+ departure stats. It certainly would not have landed in the late column for DOT purposes.

A valid reason for getting the DFW flight out on time (or even two minutes early) might be the amount of time the crew would have for rest before their flight back to CLT the next day. If the DFW flight were delayed, it is possible that crew rest legalities might delay a morning flight back to CLT, resulting in a planeload of missed connections. I wouldn't want to be the agent who held a flight for a single connecting passenger if that flight then landed at DFW too late to permit the crew to make an on-time departure the next morning.

As has been pointed out above, US had no way of knowing how fast the OP's wife would traverse the CLT terminal, so it had no way of knowing when it should give up on her. Fact is, the 15 minute point had passed before the wife even begun her trek (and someone pointed out that the two gates were about as far apart as possible). Unfortunately, US had probably given up on her before her seat belt sign went off on her BHM-CLT flight. Everyone else was probably onboard and ready to go, and the agents closed out the flight.

In an ideal world, someone at US would have noticed that a person who doesn't value their time very highly (a reasonable assumption given the planned 4.5 hour backtracked connecting itinerary to fly 600 miles between BHM and DFW) was going to be stranded overnight unless they called ahead and arranged a cart to transport her to the DFW flight. If she were a high-status, high-revenue passenger, it's possible that someone might have done that for her.

I've seen LAX flights from ORD held for passengers coming off a delayed arrival from Europe - but in those cases, there have been a dozen or two dozen passengers, and stranding them would be a bigger headache than stranding one.

...a person who doesn't value their time very highly (a reasonable assumption given the planned 4.5 hour backtracked connecting itinerary to fly 600 miles between BHM and DFW)...

The ONLY flight she could've taken to get from BHM to DFW after her meeting in Alabama was the US flight. She fully recognized it as far from optimal. But it was the latest departing flight out of BHM to DFW and her only option. She needed to be at a meeting the following morning in Ft Worth. She values her time quite highly and your comment here in re: to her - in light of her obligations - is indeed typical of assumptions, if you know what I mean.

I'm sorry that your wife's plans were scuttled and that she was mistreated by US after her ill-advised, self-made travel plans blew up in her face...

Your harsh intimations/assumptions are really sad. You don't know this woman, how smart and kind she is, or what she does.

I'm not sure what you want here. You have one data point and are asking for advice from a group with thousands of data points and intimate knowledge of US's policies. US's policy, like it or not, is clear and is part of your contract of carriage. They didn't deviate from it in leaving your wife behind. You aren't the first person, nor will you be the last, to see someone left behind and "explaining" your logic to US won't do much good....they've certainly received emails on this subject before (just like other airlines no doubt receive emails from people delayed when airplanes wait for connecting passengers).

+1 - Here is the bottom line:

1. OP can do what he wants. Not sure why he posted here because he's not listening to anything anybody has said.

2. GA's don't have the authority to "hold" flights. Period. That decision is made by senior supervisors in operations and rarely occurs. It certainly doesn't occur at the very last second.

3. Why a pax is late to the gate is irrelevant. What happened to OP's wife is frustrating, but it happens every day across the country and on every carrier. What OP doesn't appreciate is that the aircraft door isn't simply closed and then pushes. Rather, once the aircraft is fully loaded, and the GA completes his paperwork, double-checks that with the cabin crew, supplies the information to the cockpit crew and the same is done by baggage & fuel people, the cockpit crew and dispatch can then calculate weigh & balance and other matters and the flight can be released. One pax or one bag wouldn't seem to make a difference, but the fact is that the rules have zero tolerance for a reason. Civil aviation in the USA has never been safer and I, for, one want it that way. I'm not prepared to sacrifice safety because an untrained person thinks there was a better way.

4. The mess-up on the hotel was sloppy, but it's not clear how that happened.

5. OP's wife isn't really due any compensation other than perhaps cab fare, but as a matter of CSR may throw a few miles her way if the concern is raised in a brief and polite manner and is confined to the taxi/hotel issue. The departure issue will not only lead to $0, but most likely outright denial because its a line in the sand drawn by all carriers.

Much of OP's anger ought to be reduced once he understands what was in play. Not as simple as the bus driver putting the brake back on.

My husband and I had the exact same thing happen to us in Portland on UA. Our flight was delayed due to a passenger falling while boarding and needing paramedics, made us late in leaving, got to Portland 2 mins before our flight but they had closed the gate early and we got to see our flight leave the terminal for SFO (we had boarding passes and only carry-ons). Fortunately UA re-routed us to LAX and then back to SFO, which meant we arrived at our hotel at 2am completely miserable rather than having the nice dinner in SFO that we had planned. No real sympathy to our complaint. It seems the on-time stats reign supreme. Oh, and that lady sued and named us at witnesses so we've had to deal with affidavits and lawyers which hopefully will go away eventually!

My husband and I had the exact same thing happen to us in Portland on UA. Our flight was delayed due to a passenger falling while boarding and needing paramedics, made us late in leaving, got to Portland 2 mins before our flight but they had closed the gate early and we got to see our flight leave the terminal for SFO (we had boarding passes and only carry-ons). Fortunately UA re-routed us to LAX and then back to SFO, which meant we arrived at our hotel at 2am completely miserable rather than having the nice dinner in SFO that we had planned. No real sympathy to our complaint. It seems the on-time stats reign supreme. Oh, and that lady sued and named us at witnesses so we've had to deal with affidavits and lawyers which hopefully will go away eventually!

Here is the US policy. Every carrier has something like it. Doesn't matter why you aren't in the boarding area at T-15, it matters that you weren't in the boarding area at T-15. For all the reasons summarized above, US is free to push at T-14 if there's nobody left in the boarding area.

•If you are not checked in and waiting in the boarding area at least 15 minutes before the scheduled departure time for domestic U.S. (30 minutes for international travel), your reservation may be canceled and you will not be eligible for denied boarding compensation

The beaten-to-death horse of this one is the departure of the CLT-DFW flight. It left on time as it should have. There is ZERO issue with this. The GA may have been dismissive, rude and uncaring but none of those are relevant to the departure of the CLT-DFW flight.

If the OP hopes to get any traction with compensation, the only issue to address is the misinformation and the hotel run around. Then maybe there is a chance. I don't personally think anything is warranted but US may disagree and toss a bone...

The ONLY flight she could've taken to get from BHM to DFW after her meeting in Alabama was the US flight.

Now you're starting to contradict yourself. In your initial post, you mentioned not flying with US again because of the way their airline works. But it seems that when presented with this set of circumstances again, your wife would pick the US flight given timing.

The only thing you seem to be after is "compensation", even though a) you weren't inconvenienced, b) there was no alternative that would have worked better, and c) everything was done correctly, albeit with a poor attitude and a mistaken voucher.

If I were US, I would probably send your wife an apology letter, pass on the info to the CLT station manager to deal with the staffing issue, and call it a day. If you're lucky, your wife might receive a token voucher. But I think the chances of that are slim.

Or if you're lucky... twitter!

The Twitter team seems to attempt to assist with immediate issues that are occuring during travel, but tends to direct people to the Customer Solutions website for post-travel feedback. That's why I didn't mention it.

Having dealt with being sent to a hotel before that had no rooms, I took the time to find out why the problem happened. The airlines rely on a 3rd party vendor to update the system with available rooms accordingly. If the information as to what hotels are available is incorrect, its because the outside vendor didnt update their information. Or its because, the hotel promised rooms to the outside vendor but then decided to not honor them. Its generally the airline itself just knowingly sending somebody to a sold out hotel.

Now you're starting to contradict yourself. In your initial post, you mentioned not flying with US again because of the way their airline works. But it seems that when presented with this set of circumstances again, your wife would pick the US flight given timing.



You say I'm contradicting myself? by saying I or we wouldn't fly them because of the way US works? Where the hell did you get that? Never said that at all. Apparently your reading something I didn't write. Try reading what I wrote again. All I was asking for was constructive suggestions not something like 'Just don't fly US.'



Any advice (other than don't fly US) as far as how to tackle this?

Thanks in advance to my fellow FTers.

My wife had no reason not to fly US before this. Never said either of us wouldn't fly them again. There are times when a particular airline offers the only hope of meeting certain schedules.

So Cedric, how about first getting your facts straight about what I said or didn't say before you accuse me of contradicting myself.

Any advice (other than don't fly US) as far as how to tackle this?

Took that to mean that in the future you would no longer fly US. I must have misunderstood.

All I was asking for was constructive suggestions not something like 'Just don't fly US.'


Well, a number of us have constructively suggested that airlines as a general rule don't hold flights for connecting passengers, so you probably should emphasize the problems your wife got in service delivery at CLT instead of arguing that US should have held the plane if you're seeking compensation for the trouble that got caused. Given that there's a mechanical to boot, this seems reasonable.

You don't seem disposed to take those suggestions. All well and good, I guess- if you think it will work better to play up the angle that US should have held the flight, by all means try it, I guess.

So, let us know how it all works out for you.

Well, a number of us have constructively suggested that airlines as a general rule don't hold flights for connecting passengers, so you probably should emphasize the problems your wife got in service delivery at CLT instead of arguing that US should have held the plane if you're seeking compensation for the trouble that got caused. Given that there's a mechanical to boot, this seems reasonable.

You don't seem disposed to take those suggestions. All well and good, I guess- if you think it will work better to play up the angle that US should have held the flight, by all means try it, I guess.

So, let us know how it all works out for you.

Some on this thread think I've been unwilling to listen to them about how to couch the complaint. That's not true at all.

I will be mentioning the early departure as something that contributed to the problem, especially since it was brought about by mechanical, but that no longer will be the focus of the complaint. I have listened and changed the major complaint to how it was handled afterward.

There have also been some on this thread that want to take issue with my stance on the departure. All I'm saying - while now fully understanding it was within their right per CoC to depart when they did - is they COULD have waited a few more minutes and still made an on-time arrival at DFW (those few minutes would have saved my wife from what happened). In my opinion - which was shared by a few others who commented - waiting a handful of minutes would have been the customer-friendly thing for US to do.

I agree - US - by their CoC standards, was justified in leaving when they did. Were they right to leave early while pax were trying to make that connection? I still say no. Justified? Yes. Right? No. But I'm also the guy who, on a last flight out, has never gotten mad waiting for those who are making delayed connections. Done that so many times on WN. In my mind it is the right (kind) thing to do.

I'm done posting here.

I thought the OP was done posting on here..... :rolleyes:

Its simple, file a complaint based on the response after the missed connection but why is it so hard to forgo the flight boarding, closing its doors and departing as it should have?? Give it a rest already..

If the FAs hadn't lied about everybody still being able to make connections, wife and others would have been clamoring for their onward flights to be alerted to expect last minute connecting passengers.

My wife had no reason not to fly US before this. Never said either of us wouldn't fly them again. There are times when a particular airline offers the only hope of meeting certain schedules.

When you book the last flight of the day, it comes with the territory that if something goes wrong, you aren't getting where you want to be. Happened to me on UA early this month, US in April last year, AA and DL recently enough I don't have to think hard about it. I realized in each case they weren't going to hold up everyone else to get me somewhere. I'm not important enough for any carrier to fix what at the time was MY problem.

Mods - hasn't this thread run its course yet?

Mods - hasn't this thread run its course yet?

I have no problem with the mods closing the thread.

Though I won't see eye to eye with everyone on certain aspects, I learned much from the community and am thankful for those who took the time to make thoughtful responses.

I'd rather it be left open so the OP can report back... ;)

Just to add my 2 cents...

A similar thing happened to me flying BOS-CLT-MYR last year. My BOS-CLT flight was delayed due to weather, got to CLT, sprinted to the gate (I'm a runner, and made it from B to D in no less than 30 seconds, I swear), got to the gate and saw the gate agent coming back up the (closed) jetway. This was 12 minutes before scheduled departure. (I checked the actual departure time on the US site when I got to my hotel.)

A not so friendly US "customer service" manager was at the podium with the GA. When I asked why the flight left early, he told me, "You need to be here 15 minutes before departure. Those are the breaks."

At the gate in BOS, I overheard a group of about 5 guys mention something about Myrtle Beach, and that they were going on a golfing trip, so we chatted, blah blah. So, there were at least 6 CLT pax going to MYR.

The GA in CLT told me, while rebooking me for the next morning's flight, that she knew we had landed, but the pilot was ready to go. I had booked a non-refundable hotel room in MYR for the night, and had to spring for my own hotel in CLT.

I did send an email to US, as I thought 12 minutes was a little too early to let a flight leave knowing there were connecting passengers on the ground.

This was part of their response along with a $50 ETUV:

"You stated in your email that the agent said the flight left early, but the flight left twelve minutes early which is not early. Pilots can take off up to fifteen minutes prior to schedule departure. It appears that our agents miscommunicated information."

Just to add my 2 cents...
I did send an email to US, as I thought 12 minutes was a little too early to let a flight leave knowing there were connecting passengers on the ground.

This was part of their response along with a $50 ETUV:

"You stated in your email that the agent said the flight left early, but the flight left twelve minutes early which is not early. Pilots can take off up to fifteen minutes prior to schedule departure. It appears that our agents miscommunicated information."

This is what frosts my giblets!! The airlines in an effort to be more profitable created this never ending game of "Gotcha" with their customers. To the point where we have this board and others that essentially exist to share ways to "game" the system and play gotcha in return.

What would be the rationale for allowing pilots the discretion to take off before flight time knowing there are still passengers coming from connecting flights? It might be justified to get out before a bad storm.

The early / on-time departure horse has been beaten way past death.
I understand it's your personal opinion and you are more than welcome to it.

I just want to say my most recent personal experience with US CLT IRROPS GA's and a CS Supervisor pushed me away from US to CO over a year ago. You can find my thread on what happened if you want.

The new UA is so bad, I'm actually back to US for as much travel as possible now.

I sympathize with you about the plane leaving early and I empathize with you about the poor customer service and I agree with everyone that says to focus on the customer service issue and not the flight leaving early. The doors may very well have closed on time (i.e. -10 for boarding and -5 for the plane) and the crew simply did a good job and completed all their tasks in 3 minutes instead of 5. The GA had no way of knowing that was going to happen.

The flight into DFW arrived 6 minutes early. Had the gate agent simply waited for the connecting pax from that plane - prob only my wife - all 120 passengers would have still arrived on time.
As has been pointed out, it's not up to the GA. The GA may very well have asked operations to hold the flight and was told "no". Also, the crew may not have known at that point that they would arrive 6 minutes early. They may have received a more direct routing once airborne, landing runway could have changed, etc. So you really cannot focus on that.
Many of those delayed pax are wives and husbands, mothers and fathers or just folk who what to get home or wherever they're going that night. A FEW extra minutes won't hurt. And too, I've been that tired sole who wanted to get home that night and was the last to board after being delayed.
What you really mean here is that "a few extra minutes won't hurt my wife". You cannot possibly know whether or not those few extra minutes would hurt any other passenger on that plane.

I have been, as have many others here, in both situations that your wife was in. I've seen the plane pulling away on a tight connection and I've had very poor customer service. The first is very frustrating and often difficult to wrap one's mind around simply because we don't have all the facts.

The second is just inexcusable and is more controllable and actionable by the airline so as many have pointed out, just focus on that. The 2 minutes is irrelevant because at -5 minutes, the GA almost assuredly didn't know that it would only take 3 minutes to push back from the gate instead of the full 5.

What would be the rationale for allowing pilots the discretion to take off before flight time knowing there are still passengers coming from connecting flights? It might be justified to get out before a bad storm.

Yeah, I didn't really buy it...

As others have mentioned, crew time out, weather, etc. No idea, because the weather was fine in CLT and MYR that night, but I doubt the crew would have run out of flying hours if we left on time.

Doesn't really matter if it is full or not.

The agent is more concerned about getting their flight off the gate on time than getting called in to explain why they got a flight off the gate late.

You can call it shortsighted considering it was the last flight of the night and they ended up paying for transportation, hotel and I hope meals too.

I think the only way the agent would have held the flight is that if someone higher up in operations or whatever it is called at US Airways specifically took the responsibility to delay the flight. It is not something the agent can do on their own without getting in hot water.

In any case, if the agent had misconnects or oversales from an earlier flight then it was a bonus for them to get the people on the plane and get it out.

It stinks but that is just how it is now.

Passenger Operations Control (POC) at CLT obviously felt that it was not worth delaying the flight further for 1 passenger. Plus we do not know the whole picture, it's possible the flight was full and they boarded everyone and closed the door.

Misconnects sucks and it sucks even more when it happens to you but CSAs have to follow the terms on the Contract of Carriage which clearly states the time a ticketed passenger has to be in the Gate area prior to the flight's departure time (10 minutes).

Thanks for noticing more of the problem than others here.

I wonder if Chuck and Cedric would be so nonchalant if they had been left by less than 5 minutes, then lied to and blamed, then to top it off, given the runaround (literally and figuritively) regarding a room. Bet not.

I will be working on my wife's behalf for compensation. I know most people on this board don't think she is entitled to much.

If the US rule is hard and fast (which I doubt very seriously) I think it is indeed a bad rule. Common sense has to play into these sorts of situations. These are people not simply cargo. But I think it says alot about that particular gate agent's attitude toward pax when she LIED about the reason for the late plane from BHM, told my wife it was her fault (WOW), and then that she was on her own as far as finding a place to sleep when she KNEW it was mechanical. That right there is egregious behavior.

No, I'll be encouraging my wife to seek more than token (50.00) compensation.

Mike for the road warriors it is easy for them to be as you put it nonchalant about it.

1. This happened to your wife, so of course you will be emotional about it, we all would. But to those who have had these problems in the past, you learn how to deal with them. Yes, airline employee's lie, just like every other employee, is it right, no, but it does happen.
2. This is a learing lesson for you and your wife, there are ways to protect yourself from this, it has been talked about many times on flyertalk. Do not listen to FA's they have no control on holding aircraft.
3. Get names, once you have names of people it is very easy for the airline to go back to that employee and "coach" them on true customer service. This is the only way things get changed...

Sorry it happened, and if your wife travels for work, it will happen again...

FN