Alaska Airlines Mileage Plan - Alaska Airlines Suspends Anchorage – Chicago in Winter 2012

From a.net:

Alaska Airlines is suspending operations on Anchorage – Chicago service during winter season. The airline will not be operating this route from 02DEC12 to 14DEC12 and from 07JAN13 to 02MAR13 (ORD departs on following day).

Schedule from 15DEC12 to 06JAN13 as follows:

AS138 ANC2325 – 0810+1ORD 738 D
AS139 ORD0930 – 1323ANC 738 D

AS139 operates from 16DEC12 to 07JAN13

Big thumbs down. :td:

I second Chugach's big thumbs down on this one. I fly this route at least 4x a year and even at non-peak times its a rare occasion that the planes are not full.

I would guess that early December through late Jan (except for holiday) is slow, but to shut down through March is a huge disappointment. Having to connect through SEA/PDX adds avg of $150 minimum to these flights.

Not happy.

This was mentioned in another thread a while ago, but I'm not happy about it either. Prices to ORD are higher this year than the last few years I've been watching them.

Wow... Huge bummer. It is hard to describe how useful this route has been to me since it was initiated. I lived in ORD when service was initiated and maintained MVPG while living there, primarily because of the ability to upgrade to and from ANC.

I'm not in Chicago anymore, but ANC-ORD was the first flight of my current trip and I typically use it a couple times a year. I don't doubt that this is a sound business decision, but I am disappointed that it is being relegated to seasonal service.

At least it's better than a Summer only schedule.

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I second Chugach's big thumbs down on this one. I fly this route at least 4x a year and even at non-peak times its a rare occasion that the planes are not full.

I would guess that early December through late Jan (except for holiday) is slow, but to shut down through March is a huge disappointment. Having to connect through SEA/PDX adds avg of $150 minimum to these flights.

Not happy.

Not just the cost, but the added time! ANC-ORD is approximately 6 hours depending on the winds. Going through SEA/PDX turns that into a nine hour trip after connections.

It's probably fuel costs, long/thin route, same old story. But still, big thumbs down.

I'm sure Uncle Delta is happy to see this, though. I bet a lot of FF's will slide over to the ANC-MSP flights.

I am fairly disapointed. I fly is route a couple times a year. There is less and less reason for me to fly Alaska.

How many of you that are complaining had purchased tickets in the time frame where it is suspended?

How many of you that are complaining had purchased tickets in the time frame where it is suspended?

It hasn't been in the flight schedule so I'm sure nobody bought tickets. It's just a real useful flight for us, and leaves DL's ANC-MSP flight as the only NS from ANC to anywhere East of the Mississippi.

It hasn't been in the flight schedule so I'm sure nobody bought tickets. It's just a real useful flight for us, and leaves DL's ANC-MSP flight as the only NS from ANC to anywhere East of the Mississippi.

Technically MSP is on the western banks of the Mississippi. The approach to 30R/L brings you right over the river.

So, in reality, there are NO NS ANC flights east of the Mississippi.

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How many of you that are complaining had purchased tickets in the time frame where it is suspended?

Once a year for the past three years in February. Typically travel with a companion.

How many of you that are complaining had purchased tickets in the time frame where it is suspended?

Typically once/year in Feb or late Jan. Good time to go home and beat the crazy holiday fares.

Its not outrageous to think they eliminated this route for 3 months/year. Its just seems to me that it was always a popular and full route, at least Thur/Fri departure and Mon/Tues return.

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How many of you that are complaining had purchased tickets in the time frame where it is suspended?

I've used that flight in February in the past.

While there are clearly a handful of customers who would fly during the suspension, AS needs more than bargain hunters and once a year travelers to keep the route afloat during its seasonal low point.

How many of you that are complaining had purchased tickets in the time frame where it is suspended?

I have flown out in January the last few years.

I've been using this flight in Jan/Feb as a connection to European flights. I don't think the argument that one or two budget fliers is accurate and there ar several of us who say the flights are generally full. I don't understand how there is savings cutting full flights!:td:

I've been using this flight in Jan/Feb as a connection to European flights. I don't think the argument that one or two budget fliers is accurate and there ar several of us who say the flights are generally full. I don't understand how there is savings cutting full flights!:td:

(1) Sometimes there is, because a full flight doesn't necessarily mean a profitable one,
(2) Sometimes when there is a limited number of aircraft, the plane may go to another route where it can make more money, and
(3) Sometimes, if a plane isn't going to Hawaii, an airline will cut a route or reduce capacity so another one of its aircraft can go to Hawaii.

(1) Sometimes there is, because a full flight doesn't necessarily mean a profitable one,
(2) Sometimes when there is a limited number of aircraft, the plane may go to another route where it can make more money, and
(3) Sometimes, if a plane isn't going to Hawaii, an airline will cut a route or reduce capacity so another one of its aircraft can go to Hawaii.

I actually always fly this route in February, but I think #3 is probably the situation here. The load factors on ANC-ORD have always seemed pretty high to me (of course this is anecdotal) but I have noticed an awful lot of cheapie fares/upgrades at non peak times.

(3) Sometimes, if a plane isn't going to Hawaii, an airline will cut a route or reduce capacity so another one of its aircraft can go to Hawaii.

Except AS has the 73G/739 it can use on ANC-ORD if it so desired. Any way you slice it, it's a loss for ANC-based fliers. Not everybody thinks connecting in SEA to get anywhere east of the Rockies is the bees knees.

I think UA's announcement of making DEN year round probably hurt advance bookings for AS since UA is now an option to connect to almost anywhere in the US besides DL to MSP/SLC. In the past, flying UA in the winter means almost guaranteed double connects, now that is no longer the case.

Business travelers who travels heavily to the non major cities on the east coast now will likely deflect to DL/UA rather than going ANC-SEA-ORD/DFW-XXX.

AS simply cannot compete for contracts from major consulting, energy, IT, and other industries where many employees travel heavily all over the country/globe. Alaska's largest industry is the oil industry and most of them fly on UA. Heck, even many of the major companies [Boeing, Microsoft, Starbucks, etc] based in SEA do not really make AS their primary carrier since AS's schedule to many destinations simply do not work [1x a day with times that suits AS's operational needs not business travelers' needs] and those companies are global companies with employees who need to travel to Asia/Europe/South America/etc. Most business travelers I know makes AS their secondary carrier for certain routes, particularly the west coast and DCA-West Coast for some of them.

If you often find yourself having to depend on other carriers to fill your route network needs or find yourself flying on DL/AA too much then it is time to reconsider your choice of carrier IMO.

I wouldn't be surprised that DCA-LAX is next to go eventually. They just cannot compete with AA starting this route and UA/VX starting SFO along with US's SAN flight. Just like with ANC-ORD, AS is the backburner airline for many business travelers where they are the only ideal choice in a market, but now that is no longer the case. It is not fun connecting from AS to AA/DL and traveling is indefinitely easier if one can stick with one airline, which will make UA's SFO flight more attractive for many business travelers if they need to connect to smaller cities or an international flight.

I wouldn't be surprised that DCA-LAX is next to go eventually. They just cannot compete with AA starting this route and UA/VX starting SFO along with US's SAN flight.

It would be bad form to apply for a DCA exemption for PDX-DCA successfully (as well as SAN-DCA unsuccessfully) and then go "oops, sorry, our bad, we don't really need one of our current exemptions". I suspect the DOT would not be pleased, and AS would be frozen out from future DCA exemption expansions.

Also: tell me, where's VX's extensive international network and airline partnerships, not to mention elite program and ability to upgrade for free, if we're talking about ability to compete with legacy airlines to DCA? :rolleyes:

It would be bad form to apply for a DCA exemption for PDX-DCA successfully (as well as SAN-DCA unsuccessfully) and then go "oops, sorry, our bad, we don't really need one of our current exemptions". I suspect the DOT would not be pleased, and AS would be frozen out from future DCA exemption expansions.

Also: tell me, where's VX's extensive international network and airline partnerships, not to mention elite program and ability to upgrade for free, if we're talking about ability to compete with legacy airlines to DCA? :rolleyes:

Agreed, but AS is not going to keep it if they are going to bleed money. I give this route 2-3 years before it is axed and the slot auctioned to another carrier. This is not a strong route for AS, but it still performed fine since competition was almost non-existent with only US being the only serious factor in the mix.

As for VX, I don't think they will do very well on this route with UA on it, but they will continue to put pressure on yields for other airlines. VX needs to attract substantial high yield O/D traffic to turn a profit on this rather expensive route to make up for lack of connecting traffic. I won't be surprised that they will try and bid for the GSA contract on this route.

Bottom line, AS/VX will struggle against AA/UA. AS armed with 3x flights to the PNW and the ability to codeshare with AA on this route, they will gladly drop the LAX route if yields drop. They did that with LGB where they got some mainline slots only to end it a few years later. They surely would rather live with only 3 slots for the next 15-20 years and be shunned by the DOT in future auctions than bleed millions on LAX-DCA for 15-20 years.

DL/AA did this many times with the DOT with the HND slots and the Brazil frequencies. AS is more conservative in this regard, but they will do it if it is not financially feasible in due time.

Agreed, but AS is not going to keep it if they are going to bleed money. I give this route 2-3 years before it is axed and the slot auctioned to another carrier. This is not a strong route for AS, but it still performed fine since competition was almost non-existent with only US being the only serious factor in the mix.

As for VX, I don't think they will do very well on this route with UA on it, but they will continue to put pressure on yields for other airlines. VX needs to attract substantial high yield O/D traffic to turn a profit on this rather expensive route to make up for lack of connecting traffic. I won't be surprised that they will try and bid for the GSA contract on this route.

Bottom line, AS/VX will struggle against AA/UA. AS armed with 3x flights to the PNW and the ability to codeshare with AA on this route, they will gladly drop the LAX route if yields drop. They did that with LGB where they got some mainline slots only to end it a few years later. They surely would rather live with only 3 slots for the next 15-20 years and be shunned by the DOT in future auctions than bleed millions on LAX-DCA for 15-20 years.

DL/AA did this many times with the DOT with the HND slots and the Brazil frequencies. AS is more conservative in this regard, but they will do it if it is not financially feasible in due time.

A DCA slot (or competing with B6 in their hub, in an area, Greater LA, that AS serves very extensively from SEA/PDX) is somewhat different than a longhaul flight HND or Brazil.

Also, this isn't LAX-DCA, it's really LAX-WAS, with AA, VX and UA running substantial West Coast-IAD service. So I don't think yields will drop as much as you think they might (case in point: PDX-LAX-DCA is pricing out as more expensive than PDX-DCA, despite new VX service to LAX, AND additional DCA service from PDX and LAX).

We'll see what fares are like come the dead of winter, though. It might make for interesting mileage runs if they are getting killed on yields (this past winter GEG-PDX-LAX-DCA was a pretty decent MR- though it was GEG-DCA that had the MR, you could route through SEA too).

ANC-ORD was my first AS flight. I went in winter for the Iditarod, so sad its going away, the flight was a great deal too, 300 bucks RT back in 2006

From a.net:

Alaska Airlines is suspending operations on Anchorage – Chicago service during winter season. The airline will not be operating this route from 02DEC12 to 14DEC12 and from 07JAN13 to 02MAR13 (ORD departs on following day).

Schedule from 15DEC12 to 06JAN13 as follows:

AS138 ANC2325 – 0810+1ORD 738 D
AS139 ORD0930 – 1323ANC 738 D

AS139 operates from 16DEC12 to 07JAN13

Quick update, which was loaded over the weekend (Saturday in OAG, Sunday in most GDS).... ANC ORD operates from 13DEC12 to 06JAN13, ORD ANC from 14DEC12 to 07JAN13

While there are clearly a handful of customers who would fly during the suspension, AS needs more than bargain hunters and once a year travelers to keep the route afloat during its seasonal low point.

+1000 AS is making a BUSINESS decision, not running a charity.

+1000 AS is making a BUSINESS decision, not running a charity.Im not so sure Ive really seen much in the way of light loads to ORD and back even in winter. :confused: Im wondering if it has some to do with the winds and Chicago weather during the winter thats causing too much down time and extra expense

In any case some of us figured this out months ago. Its a real shame AS never really made any public mention of it

Im not so sure Ive really seen much in the way of light loads to ORD and back even in winter. :confused: Im wondering if it has some to do with the winds and Chicago weather during the winter thats causing too much down time and extra expense

In any case some of us figured this out months ago. Its a real shame AS never really made any public mention of it

Two things:

1. Winter weather (including winds) means higher costs. The other part is that several posters have noted getting "good fares" during the winter months, which implies lower revenue. Lower revenue and higher costs might mean a generally unprofitable route during the off-pear winter months.

2. Do airlines EVER make a public statement about discontinuing service (especially for two months)? If I were AS, I wouldn't call the public's attention to it.

We saw the same sort of schedule reductions out of SEA last winter. The first half of December and mid-January through early March are THE slowest times of the year for air travel. Why fly planes around that are not making money just to operate the same schedule year-round? I think you'll see more of this than just ANC-ORD on Alaska's winter schedule. Those aircraft are better used in flying to Hawaii and Mexico during those months.

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We saw the same sort of schedule reductions out of SEA last winter. The first half of December and mid-January through early March are THE slowest times of the year for air travel. Why fly planes around that are not making money just to operate the same schedule year-round? I think you'll see more of this than just ANC-ORD on Alaska's winter schedule. Those aircraft are better used in flying to Hawaii and Mexico during those months.

Does this mean ANC-KOA can increase to more then 1x a week? ;)

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Does this mean ANC-KOA can increase to more then 1x a week? ;)

If the loads are good I'd say it's not a matter of if but when. Inaugural flight ANC-KOA is essentially sold out so that's a start!

If the loads are good I'd say it's not a matter of if but when. Inaugural flight ANC-KOA is essentially sold out so that's a start!

I know- not sure if my upgrade will clear now :eek:

+1000 AS is making a BUSINESS decision, not running a charity.

I have a hard time believing that the flight was not a moneymaker. It was regularly filled to the gills year-round (even in the winter), and fares were always $600rt at a MINIMUM (and up from there). Only once in several years did I see the fare drop below that (when it did, I booked it).

It may not have been as much of a moneymaker as other flights in the winter (especially if they use that aircraft on a Hawaii flight instead), but it certainly wasn't a loss-leader.

It may not have been as much of a moneymaker as other flights in the winter (especially if they use that aircraft on a Hawaii flight instead), but it certainly wasn't a loss-leader.

You hit the nail on the head. There must be a high opportunity cost to run that flight in the winter.

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DL is knocking ANC-SLC down to 3X weekly in October.

That's sad...any old-time ANC fliers when DL flew that route twice daily through the winter, with one of those flights on a 763.

Between this, and limited ORD on AS, I don't think UA will have any problems filling up ANC-DEN through the winter.

DL is knocking ANC-SLC down to 3X weekly in October.

That's sad...any old-time ANC fliers when DL flew that route twice daily through the winter, with one of those flights on a 763.

Between this, and limited ORD on AS, I don't think UA will have any problems filling up ANC-DEN through the winter.

Too bad... all the more unlikely that FAI-MSP would ever go year-round.

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DL is knocking ANC-SLC down to 3X weekly in October.

That's sad...any old-time ANC fliers when DL flew that route twice daily through the winter, with one of those flights on a 763.

Between this, and limited ORD on AS, I don't think UA will have any problems filling up ANC-DEN through the winter.

Too bad... all the more unlikely that FAI-MSP would ever go year-round.

I bet FAI-MSP or FAI-SLC would be year-round if DL wasn't already spooning AS. DL has slowly but steadily cut back service to Alaska since becoming so closely aligned with AS.

And UA will fly ANC-ORD during the peak winter holiday travel matching AS's ANC-ORD service.

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And UA will fly ANC-ORD during the peak winter holiday travel matching AS's ANC-ORD service.

Good for UA

Painful as it is to say that :(

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And UA will fly ANC-ORD during the peak winter holiday travel matching AS's ANC-ORD service.

Interesting. Looks like UA will operate the service for a few weeks in December. Nice to see UA making some efforts in the ANC market. They will also have 3X daily ANC-SEA in December.

Now if they'd make FAI year-round...

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Good for UA

Painful as it is to say that :(

AS has lost pretty much any competitive advantage they had on this route now that UA has matched AS's schedule. Actually I would now give UA the edge since you can connect in ORD to your final destination on one airline rather than dealing with the hassle of connecting to AA and vice versa. Makes a difference in IROPs.

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That's sad...any old-time ANC fliers when DL flew that route twice daily through the winter, with one of those flights on a 763.

I remember those days fondly! I was just a kid back then.

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DL is knocking ANC-SLC down to 3X weekly in October.

That's sad...any old-time ANC fliers when DL flew that route twice daily through the winter, with one of those flights on a 763.

I remember those days fondly! I was just a kid back then.

Me too. Took that flight a lot growing up.

UA is keeping daily ORD-ANC through at least December.

I wonder how AS will react.

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UA is keeping daily ORD-ANC through at least December.

I wonder how AS will react.

Double miles? :p

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Double miles? :p

For Club 49 only.

But not combinable of course!