SkyTeam - Why is SAUDIA not showing up on DELTA

Saudi Arabian Airlines - SAUDIA joined Skyteam on May 29, 2012.
So why doesnt it show up under Skymiles - Earn Miles - Airline Partners ?

When does earning and redeemign miles on Saudia begin?

Perhaps this fits better in the Delta subforum?

I remember reading an article that Delta won't be code-sharing with Saudia flights due to their discrimination to certain races but Saudi is code-sharing on Delta flights.

I remember reading an article that Delta won't be code-sharing with Saudia flights due to their discrimination to certain races but Saudi is code-sharing on Delta flights.
Which races do they discriminate against?
I don;t want to start a controversy, but there is something about overt discrimination that makes it better than covert, like profiling, yet denying profiling.

Code sharing is something entirely different. Two member of an alliance don't have to code-share.
I suspect, what the OP was asking was that Saudia is not showing up on the list of airline partners.
By definition all members of an alliance are partners. This raises the question, can you earn Medallion Qualifying miles on Saudia? If yes, it must be a DL partner. Then why isn't it showing up on the list or airline partners.

Saudi wanted Delta to discriminate Jews on all Delta flights including US domestic flights. Delta instead decided not to code-share with Saudi Arabian Airlines because of this. Why should an airline in a multicultural country be forced to alienate some of their current customers. Delta stated they r flying into Saudi Arabia but are not code-sharing due to discrimination. They stated they are working with congress to find a solution to the whole Saudi problem and for passengers to check the entry requirements for international countries when flying so they do not alienate their current customers

Saudi wanted Delta to discriminate Jews on all Delta flights including US domestic flights.

What's the evidence for that? Can you point to anything in the U.S. national press? WSJ, NYT, Wash Post, etc.?

Really? Please cite how exactly Saudia was planning on doing any of that??!!

I have flown Saudia many times and been to KSA more times then I can count. I have never seen Saudia ask nor care what the religions or nationalities of their passengers are/were (except for citizens of Israel, but more on that in a minute). Now, some people were influences by a panicky false e-mail that made the rounds quoting a LA councilperson or California state Senator, or some other extremely minor politician, and that made the rounds, and was quickly disavowed by many that carried or transmitted it.

The issue has to do with visas.

1) A person wishing just to transit KSA needs no visa so there is no issue.
2) A person who wishes to visit KSA needs a visa and must have a real purpose to go there and therefore be invited. KSA generally has no such tourist visa category.
3) They ask religion on their visa forms, if you do not fill it in, you will get a visa. If you fill it in as Jewish, you probably will STILL get a visa. If you fill it in as Shi'a you also may not get a visa these days.
4) If you have Israeli stamps in your passport you may be denied entry.

I should mention that I know at least a half dozen Jewish people who regularly do business in KSA and have never had an issue, one of who also regularly frequents Israel.

Now I can name a couple dozen other countries that have similar provisions on their books against those who have Israeli stamps in their passports, the vast majority do not enforce them and for that matter this has been an issue for so long that it is why many ask for their Israeli stamps on a separate piece of paper and why the Israelis regularly do this.

In response to the above question:

There is no evidence of that. Which races do they discriminate against?
I don;t want to start a controversy, but there is something about overt discrimination that makes it better than covert, like profiling, yet denying profiling.

Code sharing is something entirely different. Two member of an alliance don't have to code-share.
I suspect, what the OP was asking was that Saudia is not showing up on the list of airline partners.
By definition all members of an alliance are partners. This raises the question, can you earn Medallion Qualifying miles on Saudia? If yes, it must be a DL partner. Then why isn't it showing up on the list or airline partners.

It is possible to be members of the same alliance while both: not code-sharing on some/many/any/all flights; and not giving flight credit for some/many flights. What would be unprecedented since the three big global airline alliances came into being would be denial of any credit for all flights of an alliance member. It is still to be seen how this is going to go over.

Saudi wanted Delta to discriminate Jews on all Delta flights including US domestic flights.
Can you provide any citation or links to support this?
Delta instead decided not to code-share with Saudi Arabian Airlines because of this.
As stated before, there are numerous examples of airlines in an alliance not code sharing. Once again, please direct me to your sources. DL does not even code share with AF on all the routes. Code sharing is not related to an alllaince. Airlince can code share outside their alliance too.
Why should an airline in a multicultural country be forced to alienate some of their current customers. Delta stated they r flying into Saudi Arabia but are not code-sharing due to discrimination.
Same as above.
They stated they are working with congress to find a solution to the whole Saudi problem and for passengers to check the entry requirements for international countries when flying so they do not alienate their current customers
Any press release, any articles to support this?

He won't have any because he is relying on a flawed whack job e-mail from a year ago that was discredited by most everyone the next day.

sorry about that it wouldn't log me on there were articles in the Fox News, Huffington Post, Atlanta Business Journal and the Atlanta Jewish News as well as many other sites

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/06/24/jewish-groups-outraged-over-delta-saudi-agreement/

http://www.ajc.com/business/saudi-arabian-carrier-joins-1448779.html


The latter links talks about Delta not codesharing with Saudia

sorry about that it wouldn't log me on there were articles in the Fox News, Huffington Post, Atlanta Business Journal and the Atlanta Jewish News as well as many other sites

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/06/24/jewish-groups-outraged-over-delta-saudi-agreement/

http://www.ajc.com/business/saudi-arabian-carrier-joins-1448779.html


The latter links talks about Delta not codesharing with Saudia
Yes, DL not codesharing with SV is pretty well known around here. However, you made some other rather far-fetched claims ("Saudi wanted Delta to discriminate Jews on all Delta flights including US domestic flights." topping my list.) that you have not provided evidence for. Of course, it's not possible to provide evidence to support such a blatantly false statement.

Further, the AJC article plainly states that DL will allow earning of miles, lounge access, etc., which is really the whole point of this thread.

And they never ever planned on codesharing in the first place!

Sort of like if I wrote an article saying that J_fleish might in fact be a murderer because he went to high school with one, or spuriously asking if because you work with a company that had tax problems that you in fact do not plan on cheating on YOUR taxes in the future.

The Fox article was preposterous, and the AJC article in effect stated nothing more than that this tempest in a teapot happened last year and and has now passed.

At the end of the day, Israelis cannot travel to Saudi, nor can they travel to a bunch of other countries, at the end of the day that is ISRAEL's problem, not anyone else's and has been occurring for over 60 years.

yeah I am waiting for him to explain that as well.

Gotta love that FOX News article ... its so fair and balanced :p

Do these people not know that the USA has long ago sold their soul to the Saudis for oil.

If Delta wanted to make a stand, they should stop buying Saudi oil and leave the alliance.

btw, if Saudi discriminates against Jews, what do you call the incidents of discrimination and racism in the USA, like the time the imams got pulled off a flight for praying.....

Saudi Arabian Airlines - SAUDIA joined Skyteam on May 29, 2012.
So why doesnt it show up under Skymiles - Earn Miles - Airline Partners ?

When does earning and redeemign miles on Saudia begin?
The DL website is not known for being up to date or accurate, nor is it generally reputed to work well.

If you want to fly Saudia, have you tried calling DL?

Gotta love that FOX News article ... its so fair and balanced :p

Do these people not know that the USA has long ago sold their soul to the Saudis for oil.

If Delta wanted to make a stand, they should stop buying Saudi oil and leave the alliance.

btw, if Saudi discriminates against Jews, what do you call the incidents of discrimination and racism in the USA, like the time the imams got pulled off a flight for praying.....

You made an excellent point. Nearly a hundred American companies, including 3M, AT&T, Amoco, Coca Cola, City Corp, BoA, Haliburton, Exxon, and IBM are doing business in KSA.
Should all these companies be investigated? We should boycott Coca Cola, and Pepsi, Boeing, Lockehhed Martin ( We should not buy any military hardware from them), no medicines from Eli Lily, no cereal from Kellog, no cars from companies that sells cars in KSA. The list is endless.

sorry about that it wouldn't log me on there were articles in the Fox News, Huffington Post, Atlanta Business Journal and the Atlanta Jewish News as well as many other sites

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/06/24/jewish-groups-outraged-over-delta-saudi-agreement/

http://www.ajc.com/business/saudi-arabian-carrier-joins-1448779.html


The latter links talks about Delta not codesharing with Saudia

There is no evidence that Delta discriminates against any group.
ay Sekulow, with the American Center for Law and Justice, said Delta has not fully addressed the issue. “The reality is, if you’ve got Israel stamped on your passport and you’re not Jewish, you’re not getting a visa. In effect, whatever Delta wants to say, they’re enforcing that policy.”


The airline does not give visas. An airline does not not get to decide who gets a visa. Morever, the specific incidents referred to in the quote from the article talks about those who are not Jew".
How do you conclude delta is discriminating?
The second aritcle simply says Delta is still not code sharing. It's a piece of information. It doesn't say why DL is not code sharing. DL does not code aher with a few other partners and not even with a close partner such as Air France on many routes.

As for a Senator writing to FAA, it's not a proof of anything. It's simply his opinion. Senators say lots of things for lots of reasons. Contributions to their campaign, geting support from some groups, are some of the reasons Rep Dan Burton defended Pakistan and pushed its agenda for years in exchange for money that came from Pakistan's spy agency ISI. It doesn't mean he was right. In fact he has admitted his mistake and he gave all the money he received from ISI away.
There is a lot of hype in the article, and little substance.

There is a lot of hype in the article, and little substance.

It is FOX NEWS! @:-)

In response to the above question:

There is no evidence of that.

It is possible to be members of the same alliance while both: not code-sharing on some/many/any/all flights; and not giving flight credit for some/many flights. What would be unprecedented since the three big global airline alliances came into being would be denial of any credit for all flights of an alliance member. It is still to be seen how this is going to go over.

Agreed on every count. One can accrue Skymiles for flying Saudia. I, probably won;t fly Saudia, but it's good to know that you can accrue miles.

Delta said it still does not plan to "code-share" with Saudia by selling seats on each others' flights, but now that Saudia is a SkyTeam member, Delta said it will share airport lounge benefits and allow passengers to earn Delta frequent flier miles if they fly on Saudia.

Saudi Arabian carrier joins Delta's SkyTeam alliance (http://www.ajc.com/business/saudi-arabian-carrier-joins-1448779.html)

You made an excellent point. Nearly a hundred American companies, including 3M, AT&T, Amoco, Coca Cola, City Corp, BoA, Haliburton, Exxon, and IBM are doing business in KSA.
Should all these companies be investigated? We should boycott Coca Cola, and Pepsi, Boeing, Lockehhed Martin ( We should not buy any military hardware from them), no medicines from Eli Lily, no cereal from Kellog, no cars from companies that sells cars in KSA. The list is endless.

And how many of these companies also have Jewish people as CEO's or on their board of directors. Hint, the number is > zero. Why arent they outraged?

The DL website is not known for being up to date or accurate, nor is it generally reputed to work well.

If you want to fly Saudia, have you tried calling DL?
They did get new ST members up quickly the last couple of times. Of course, they were existing partners on which just a few earning things changed when they joined ST, but they were generally up within days of joining. We're at two weeks now.

They did get new ST members up quickly the last couple of times. Of course, they were existing partners on which just a few earning things changed when they joined ST, but they were generally up within days of joining. We're at two weeks now.

DL probably has not decided on how the level of cooperation with SV. DL wants to be able to say they are not enabling KSA's policy of denying visa to Jewish people or to those who have been to Israel. Denial of visa is a political act, like the U.S. boycotting Moscow Olympics, or boycott of South Africa by cricketing countries. It has nothing to do with the airline. However, the U.S. Govt could chose to boycott and ostracise KSA as South Africa was ostracised.
I think DL is evaluating how to proceed with the announcement. There are some practical difficulties. Suppose you book on DL's site which comes up with an flight marketed by Af or some other partner, but that happens to be code-share with Saudia.

Regulations require airlines to disclose the operating carrier on all code shares.

rankoubaru, On the BoD?? Sorry to inform you but specifically on the boards stated..........quite a lot of them, in fact most of them. Try again, its not 1973 anymore.

I think DL is evaluating how to proceed with the announcement. There are some practical difficulties. Suppose you book on DL's site which comes up with an flight marketed by Af or some other partner, but that happens to be code-share with Saudia.

AF and SV started codesharing at the time (or before) SV's plan to join ST was announced. I can't get DL.dumb to offer flights JFK-RUH, so presumably CDG-RUH is not a JV flight. I don't see the issues with needing to foot drag on putting up an earning chart. At least now one could book the AF-coded, SV-operated flights and earn SkyMiles, since SV is a ST carrier and the rules would follow DL's chart for AF-coded flights as long as the operating carrier is in ST. It's going to be interesting to see what happens later this month when ME joins. Anybody want to bet that they get a press release welcoming them to ST and a speedy appearance on the earning chart?

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I think DL is evaluating how to proceed with the announcement. There are some practical difficulties. Suppose you book on DL's site which comes up with an flight marketed by Af or some other partner, but that happens to be code-share with Saudia.

AF and SV started codesharing at the time (or before) SV's plan to join ST was announced. I can't get DL.dumb to offer flights JFK-RUH, so presumably CDG-RUH is not a JV flight. I don't see the issues with needing to foot drag on putting up an earning chart. At least now one could book the AF-coded, SV-operated flights and earn SkyMiles, since SV is a ST carrier and the rules would follow DL's chart for AF-coded flights as long as the operating carrier is in ST. It's going to be interesting to see what happens later this month when ME joins. Anybody want to bet that they get a press release welcoming them to ST and a speedy appearance on the earning chart?

Every airline of an alliance does not file fares to every city served by an alliance member.
I was able to pull up AF coded itinerary operated by AF, DL and SV on ITA.

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Every airline of an alliance does not file fares to every city served by an alliance member.
I was able to pull up AF coded itinerary operated by AF, DL and SV on ITA.
Absolutely. I was just addressing the matter of an AF-coded, SV-operated flight sold on DL.dumb, which you had raised. I tried one of the most obvious city pairs where you could find that combination, and DL.dumb wouldn't bring it up. Totally possible that it can be ticketed via other venues and even on 006 stock.

It wouldn't surprise me if DL adds mention of Saudia on its website when Mid East joins SkyTeam in a few weeks. It will then take months for these new partners to be added to the list printed in Sky magazine.

However, the U.S. Govt could chose to boycott and ostracise KSA as South Africa was ostracised.

And you'd be the first one in line for $20/gallon gasoline, right?

Absolutely. I was just addressing the matter of an AF-coded, SV-operated flight sold on DL.dumb, which you had raised. I tried one of the most obvious city pairs where you could find that combination, and DL.dumb wouldn't bring it up. Totally possible that it can be ticketed via other venues and even on 006 stock.

Actually, an airline may not market fares between many of its own city pairs. NW marketed GPT-BOS but DCA-BOS. although NW had service to DCA,as well as BOS.
Delta.com does not bring up partner options as well as NW did. NW/KLM partnership was far more seamless than DL/AF-KL.

And you'd be the first one in line for $20/gallon gasoline, right?

No, I would take the metro. :p
I was pointing the corollary of the logic used by those who claim that DL discriminates against Jews.

Agreed on every count. One can accrue Skymiles for flying Saudia. I, probably won;t fly Saudia, but it's good to know that you can accrue miles.



Saudi Arabian carrier joins Delta's SkyTeam alliance (http://www.ajc.com/business/saudi-arabian-carrier-joins-1448779.html)
Under certain conditions, reciprocal lounge use is a SkyTeam benefit. So is the earning of miles, although carriers have a lot of freedom to decide that certain fare classes will not accrue miles. I've never seen redemptions requiring more miles when a certain alliance partner is used, but a FF program could presumably block award tickets on certain partners without announcing it, like UA's reputed *net blocking. This isn't saying what would be good for DL's business, just pointing out some possibilities and precedents that could be chosen.

A list of SkyTeam alliance-wide mandated benefits can be found on the sky team website, although there always seem to be a lot of exceptions and fine print rules. For example, I expect SkyPriority to take a long time to be implemented by many SkyTeam partner airlines.

Saudi Arabian Airlines 0552 from RUH(RUH) to Dubai, United Arab Emirates(DXB)
Activity Date : 30 May 2012 543 679 1222 543


I got my points with the saudi flight.

btw, if Saudi discriminates against Jews, what do you call the incidents of discrimination and racism in the USA, like the time the imams got pulled off a flight for praying.....

Apples and Oranges. Jews don't blow up planes, some Saudis do....(and the they do pray first) Unless you've been to Saudi Arabia, you would have no idea how much they despise us (Americans) and HATE (Jews). Regardless. Saudi Arabia is part of the Arab boycott which is illegal in the U.S. and that will cause a problem w any alliance (example: the alliance map showing all destinations Sky Team flys to cannot show Israel (TLV) on it). So a whole new Sky Team map must be used in Saudi Arabia

And FYI. I've seen Saudis pulled off Emirates, Etihad and Malaysia Airlines before for "looking sketchy". It's not discrimination. It's common sense (and no, the argument about Punishing many for the acts of a few does not wash). It may be a "few" that are dangerous but the "many" support them"

And you'd be the first one in line for $20/gallon gasoline, right?

Exactly! If there was no oil in KSA, it would be a parking lot by now

Apples and Oranges. Jews don't blow up planes, some Saudis do....(and the they do pray first) Unless you've been to Saudi Arabia, you would have no idea how much they despise us (Americans) and HATE (Jews).
Let's not talk about who blow up planes and who don't, nor about who hates whom. From what I can sense from this post, the feeling is mutual among some fringe segments of various countries.
Regardless. Saudi Arabia is part of the Arab boycott which is illegal in the U.S.
Political acts such as sanctions are a separate issue and have nothing to do with the issue at hand.
and that will cause a problem w any alliance (example: the alliance map showing all destinations Sky Team flys to cannot show Israel (TLV) on it). So a whole new Sky Team map must be used in Saudi Arabia
Why do you say the Skyteam destination map cannot show TLV on its map? Do you understand Skyteam is not owned by the U.S., nor by any other Govt. The same is true for delta too. They both operate under the laws of individual countries and international agreements.

And FYI. I've seen Saudis pulled off Emirates, Etihad and Malaysia Airlines before for "looking sketchy". It's not discrimination. It's common sense (and no, the argument about Punishing many for the acts of a few does not wash). It may be a "few" that are dangerous but the "many" support them"
What does a person being pulled off an aircraft has to do with anything? Jews have been pulled of aircraft, Indians have been pulled off aircraft.
I believe a few people with extremist views does not describe every one. That holds for you too.

1. It is not 1973 anymore, the "Arab boycott" lost most of its meaning by the end of the 70's and in reality ceased to exist by 1991. While the ME is perhaps the only region of the World that Pepsi has a big market share, Coke has been almost everywhere in the region for over 20 years. The oil producing countries sell oil to countries that do business with Israel, and at a less publicized level many countries in the region do in fact regularly conduct business with Israel (When the US government made a big deal about DP World buying ports, one of the strongest letters of support came from ZIM, the Israeli shipping company).

BTW, it is not that maps in Saudi omit Israel, there is no black hole where the country should be, instead, it is referred to as Palestine, Al Quds or some other acronym. That being said, for the last decade in most maps I see come from the region it is labeled as.............Israel.

Saudi Arabian Airlines 0552 from RUH(RUH) to Dubai, United Arab Emirates(DXB)
Activity Date : 30 May 2012 543 679 1222 543


I got my points with the saudi flight.

Do you remember which booking class this was?
I'm looking at a SV flight booked in V and need to know if that would earn 100%. Tried tweeting Delta since there's no info on the site, but no response.

I recently booked a Saudia flight on Orbitz, but was not given the opportunity to enter a Delta Skymiles number. It only showed Alfursan. What have others in this situation done? Can I just get Saudia to add the Delta number at check-in?

I recently booked a Saudia flight on Orbitz, but was not given the opportunity to enter a Delta Skymiles number. It only showed Alfursan. What have others in this situation done? Can I just get Saudia to add the Delta number at check-in?
It would be better to try to get the right FF number on the reservation before the day of travel. Airport agents might not know how to do this easily. Either find your reservation and ticket on the SV website or call then.

SV and ME accrual charts are now posted on Delta.

http://www.delta.com/content/www/en_US/skymiles/earn-miles/earn-miles-with-partners/airlines/saudia-airlines.html

or see DL forum,
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delta-skymiles/1404721-mqms-saudi-arabian-airlines.html