US Airways Dividend Miles - PBI - Pilot's behavior - US's response

During check-in this morning I was putting my things in the different bins in the TSA line waiting my turn to push things through. All of a sudden a FA and a pilot come into the line (although there is a separate employees and crew line available) and the pilot literally pushed me out of the way, put his bag on the conveyor belt and pushed ahead of me. I said "excuse me; I was standing here." His response "too bad." He then pushed things so that my fingers were jammed against the bins and caught between two of them. No apology. I went up to him and said "excuse me but you just smashed my fingers." "oh." I said "what is your name?" His response "none of your business."

When I went to the USAir desk in CLT to report this their response was "oh well, you should have told TSA; the pilots aren't on the job at that point." Just wow. I would think that if a pilot is in uniform he/she is representing the company and more than that, it's just rude to push people!

Just curious, why didn't you immediately report your concerns, if any, to the originating airport?

Just curious, why didn't you immediately report your concerns, if any, to the originating airport?

I reported it to the TSA agent at that airport; did not see a customer service counter at PBI where I was. What difference does that make anyway about the incident that occurred? :confused:

If you don't want your fingers smashed make sure you buy a FC ticket and check the CoC to see if such actions are prohibited.

I reported it to the TSA agent at that airport; did not see a customer service counter at PBI where I was. What difference does that make anyway about the incident that occurred? :confused:

TSA is the one that should have been contacted not the airline. However to make a formal complaint to the airline in question (not really sure how you would know exactly what airline a pilot is with since if you could see the pilots ID and where he worked you could have seen his name (this is just for US Airways not other airlines). you would need to see the agents at that airport not at the hub city. The agents in CLT won't have a clue who he is nor what flight he was on and even if he was a US, USX, or contract USX employee.

At this point your complaint is meaningless cause there is no way to find out exactly who this person is...

Horrible story, sorry to hear that. I don't care if he was on the clock or not. He's in uniform and representing the airline.

Have you contacted the TSA at PBI to see about getting a copy of the tape?

Mike

Have you contacted the TSA at PBI to see about getting a copy of the tape?


And what exactly is he going to do with that? Send it to US and hope and pray that CR can match up this pilots photo (if the videos can even show his face)to one of the hundreds of active pilots (still havent established what airline he works for) that could be the offender? Exactly what will the video prove? Not really much can be gathered from those videos especially things like minor (as in the physical contact points not the actual force) body contact and smashed fingers.

OP you really dont have any evidence, ability to get evidence or ability to form an actual complaint that might garner any results...


When I read the OPs report I am picturing how this situation went down... Then I wonder if he stamped his foot when he told the TSA agent. I wouldn't have taken him seriously. Sorry I wouldn't have and I really don't think US will either.

The OP brings up a good point... I quite often observe a string of people in uniform jumping straight to the front of the queue pushing everyone aside (often with an attitude that 'I am more important than you')...

That begs the question of "Is there any rules from the TSA to dictate that non-passenger personnel, read pilots, FA, shopkeepers, etc. can bypass passengers in the security line?" Or we are (I am one) just being sheepeople? To be absolutely clear, I am certainly a sheeperson at the airport security!:rolleyes:

The OP brings up a good point... I quite often observe a string of people in uniform jumping straight to the front of the queue pushing everyone aside (often with an attitude that 'I am more important than you')...

That begs the question of "Is there any rules from the TSA to dictate that non-passenger personnel, read pilots, FA, shopkeepers, etc. can bypass passengers in the security line?" Or we are (I am one) just being sheepeople? To be absolutely clear, I am certainly a sheeperson at the airport security!:rolleyes:

They are more important than us as they are flying the plane. They are told they can go to the front of the line and not to wait. That is part of their deal with the TSA and their airlines. Whiled no reason the be impolite or rude, they are within their right to cut the line,

There are always two sides to every story and OP's definitely sounds blown out of proportion/expanded to sound better for his own sake. Another "what's the least substantive thing you can complain about.":td:

There are always two sides to every story and OP's definitely sounds blown out of proportion/expanded to sound better for his own sake. Another "what's the least substantive thing you can complain about.":td:

Really? To me this is standard FT snarky. Do you have any facts that lead you to call the OP a liar? No, I didn't think so. I can say that as a guy that flies at least once a week, I have seen a lot of abuse by flight crews and airport staff in security lines. In my real experience the story sounds entirely plausible.

When I went to the USAir desk in CLT to report this their response was "oh well, you should have told TSA; the pilots aren't on the job at that point." Just wow. I would think that if a pilot is in uniform he/she is representing the company and more than that, it's just rude to push people!

JUst a FYI, once an employee places on thier uniform and badge, then they are representing the airlines/company they work for. Doesn't matter if they are on the clock or not. So in the future if this happens to you, follow the person to the gate then file a complaint. THis is a lesson learned. Sorry it happened to you.

Just as an FYI, ldsant has been a long time FT poster and has a very good rep on here. She hasn't been known to make stuff up, and I'd put more stock into what she says than some of the folks calling her out. Those that are haven't been around as long (and gee, one looks like a pilot :rolleyes:) and don't have near the credibility she does.

Given my experience with flight crews pushing ahead using the excuse that "your plane won't leave on time" (which is hilarious when I'm not flying their airline), I see this as a plausible explanation.

I travel for work and I'm working too. What grants them more entitlement than me?

I'm a lot more sympathetic when they ask nicely. It's a whole other ballgame when they think the uniform entitles them. :td:

Just as an FYI, ldsant has been a long time FT poster and has a very good rep on here. She hasn't been known to make stuff up, and I'd put more stock into what she says than some of the folks calling her out. Those that are haven't been around as long (and gee, one looks like a pilot :rolleyes:) and don't have near the credibility she does.

Given my experience with flight crews pushing ahead using the excuse that "your plane won't leave on time" (which is hilarious when I'm not flying their airline), I see this as a plausible explanation.

I travel for work and I'm working too. What grants them more entitlement than me?

I'm a lot more sympathetic when they ask nicely. It's a whole other ballgame when they think the uniform entitles them. :td:

Well said!

The air of superiority of a very few airline workers is appalling. I've only ever had one "Dust up" with the standard "I'm a pilot" arrogance to which I replied, "that's quite true Sir and I am your Salary Provider better known as a customer, you know the reason you have a job". A certain pilot had a rather sheepish/peculiar look on his face after.

Really? To me this is standard FT snarky. Do you have any facts that lead you to call the OP a liar? No, I didn't think so. I can say that as a guy that flies at least once a week, I have seen a lot of abuse by flight crews and airport staff in security lines. In my real experience the story sounds entirely plausible.

+1 to that. I can't understand all the snark.

Mike

Well said!

The air of superiority of a very few airline workers is appalling. I've only ever had one "Dust up" with the standard "I'm a pilot" arrogance to which I replied, "that's quite true Sir and I am your Salary Provider better known as a customer, you know the reason you have a job". A certain pilot had a rather sheepish/peculiar look on his face after.

While I agree with the concept of your statement, I'd be extremely cautious of actually saying something like that, especially to a pilot. Not sure if this could actually happen in real life, but I'm reminded of this bit from Seinfeld:

In Ithaca, Jerry's assistant invites the pilot to his comedy routine, then warns Jerry not to be nervous about it, which makes Jerry extremely nervous, causing him to "bomb", leading the officious assistant to harangue the pilot. When Jerry tries to fly back to New York, the same pilot, flying the return flight, throws him off the plane, delaying the flight.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Diplomat's_Club

While I agree that any employee in uniform represents their company, I'd rather avoid ticking off a pilot--or any crew--that may be working my flight.

While I agree with the concept of your statement, I'd be extremely cautious of actually saying something like that, especially to a pilot. Not sure if this could actually happen in real life, but I'm reminded of this bit from Seinfeld:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Diplomat's_Club

While I agree that any employee in uniform represents their company, I'd rather avoid ticking off a pilot--or any crew--that may be working my flight.

If they're going to give me attitude before the flight, they're going to give it to me ON the flight. Sorry, I'm not going to cower to some power tripping pilot or FA. I paid for my ticket and they had damn well have a better reason for throwing one off of a plane than "they ticked me off in line."

I'm a paying customer. While I don't expect to be treated like a king, I do expect to be treated like a person. And if I'm not, I WILL cause a stink with the airline.

I certainly expect to be treated no worse than anyone else on the plane. If they can't deal with that, then they have no business being in a customer facing occupation.

This happens a lot at MCO as the CLEAR line often merges with the crew line...

If they're going to give me attitude before the flight, they're going to give it to me ON the flight. Sorry, I'm not going to cower to some power tripping pilot or FA. I paid for my ticket and they had damn well have a better reason for throwing one off of a plane than "they ticked me off in line."

I'm a paying customer. While I don't expect to be treated like a king, I do expect to be treated like a person. And if I'm not, I WILL cause a stink with the airline.

I certainly expect to be treated no worse than anyone else on the plane. If they can't deal with that, then they have no business being in a customer facing occupation.

Right! I don't expect to be treated better or worse than anyone else on the plane. If as a CP, US Airways decides to provide a slightly higher level of attention then I'm happy to accept.

I don't do doormat, sorry not happening today and tomorrow isn't looking good either. Everything depends on the situation. Sometimes it's just better to board and keep an eye for the name and emp. number and make your point known post flight. The original incident as related by the OP would have resulted in a verbal confrontation.

I confess I've always wanted to when I have been pushed or shoved by a flight crew in the checkpoint to say "EVERYONE STAND ASIDE!!! A Flight crew is passing through, MAKE WAY! just to embarrass them. With my luck it would be my crew and I'd be doing a D.B. Cooper out the door without benefit of parachute.

First of all, thank you very much for the kind remarks posted by some of you; it is greatly appreciated. Secondly, for those who questioned what happened and think this is unsubstantial my point was not in the least of being treated special or anything else; it is being treated civilly and like a human being.The pilot does work for USAirways as I saw his wings and he was with a FA who was a USAirways FA.

I appreciate the comments and input but I am surprised by a few folks' who,by virtue of their posts, appear to think the pilot'sbehavior was acceptable.

Finally, I am a "she" ;)

I appreciate the comments and input but I am surprised by a few folks' who,by virtue of their posts, appear to think the pilot's behavior was acceptable.

Finally, I am a "she" ;)

My point is/was what does one do when encountering behavior so unacceptable even Stevie Wonder could see it?

Let's assume (to be fair) that the OP embellished her account. Does it diminish the inappropriate actions of the pilot/flight crew? Does it excuse the conduct of the US Airways Employee who the OP addressed her concerns to? For me the answer is a resounding "NO".

During check-in this morning I was putting my things in the different bins in the TSA line waiting my turn to push things through. All of a sudden a FA and a pilot come into the line (although there is a separate employees and crew line available) and the pilot literally pushed me out of the way, put his bag on the conveyor belt and pushed ahead of me. I said "excuse me; I was standing here." His response "too bad." He then pushed things so that my fingers were jammed against the bins and caught between two of them. No apology. I went up to him and said "excuse me but you just smashed my fingers." "oh." I said "what is your name?" His response "none of your business."

When I went to the USAir desk in CLT to report this their response was "oh well, you should have told TSA; the pilots aren't on the job at that point." Just wow. I would think that if a pilot is in uniform he/she is representing the company and more than that, it's just rude to push people!

When the pilot "literally pushed" you out of the way, the pilot's non-consensual touching (required if the pilot "pushed you") constituted a battery. The police officer at the checkpoint (it's a rare checkpoint these days that has no police officer sitting around) would have been a good place to start your complaint of misdemeanor battery. And with the security tapes, would have been a dead-bang case.

Had you "literally pushed" a US employee out of your way at a checkpoint, it's likely that the LEO would have been called.

I also have seen this type of behavior so I view the OP as entirely credible. I have been know to say to such individuals something to the effect that all you needed to do was ask politely and your request would have been granted, they generally then either apologize or move on without looking back.
My personal belief is if there is a crew line then no crew should be in the line I am in. I also believe that airport vendors have no right to go to the front of the line for any reason. Once they reach the detectors if they only need to remove their shoes sure go ahead of us loading up bins, but until then wait your turn.

This happens a lot at MCO as the CLEAR line often merges with the crew line...

I have never seena pilot or crew member have this sort of attitude, however, not saying it hasn't happened.

They are told they can go to the front of the line and not to wait. That is part of their deal with the TSA and their airlines. Whiled no reason the be impolite or rude, they are within their right to cut the line,

Citation?

Not saying I don't believe you know what you're talking about. Nor that this doesn't seem to be the custom. But where is this policy established? I guess TSA would side with the pilot, but if a customer were to stand his ground, and say, "sir, I will not allow you to cut me unless ordered to do so by TSA, and if you'd like to get them involved, let's please do so to avoid an altercation, and in the meantime, please do not touch me or my things" I would be curious what would happen.

As for the snark on FT, it's chronic. This thread is particularly interesting. Usually, the first step is looking to the message to see whether there is some ambiguity that can be exploited to make it the poster's fault, not the airlines. That's not really present in OP's post, so the defenders have to move to step two, which is to change the issue: "You don't have any proof," which seems to be equated with "shut up." Third, of course, is to simply call the OP a liar, either gently (the "two sides" argument) or directly.

For what it's worth, some times there are NOT two sides to a story. It is possible that the pilot would agree with the facts as stated. Nobody here has any idea.

Get over it. Crew need to get through. They are pretty frequent travelers--they usually know about the procedures. Make way and move on.

Get over it. Crew need to get through. They are pretty frequent travelers--they usually know about the procedures. Make way and move on.

Don't agree. The US airline industry is one of the most customer unfriendly in the world. As a very frequent business traveler, $30k in tickets a quarter seems like no big deal and a $5k ticket is not shocking. And the general rudeness of the process is an every day event. But to the average guy taking his wife and kids from ORD-MCO to Disney at $500 per ticket ($2k total) this is a really big expenditure. This is the price of a major appliance. So, he would expect a little bit of respect.

It's pretty clear that that we are headed into a slowing economy (if it's not already bad enough) or a real recession. I think that the industry and the associated groups FAA, TSA, airports etc. better start to provide some real customer service. I think finding the guy willing to spend that $2k may becoming a whole lot harder in the next 36 months. Just my 2 cents.

During check-in this morning I was putting my things in the different bins in the TSA line waiting my turn to push things through. All of a sudden a FA and a pilot come into the line (although there is a separate employees and crew line available) and the pilot literally pushed me out of the way, put his bag on the conveyor belt and pushed ahead of me. I said "excuse me; I was standing here." His response "too bad." He then pushed things so that my fingers were jammed against the bins and caught between two of them. No apology. I went up to him and said "excuse me but you just smashed my fingers." "oh." I said "what is your name?" His response "none of your business."

When I went to the USAir desk in CLT to report this their response was "oh well, you should have told TSA; the pilots aren't on the job at that point." Just wow. I would think that if a pilot is in uniform he/she is representing the company and more than that, it's just rude to push people!

From what I see going on at TSA areas, this is entirely plausible. Its all part of the "post Sept 11th" attitude that has so emboldened flight crews from pilots to flight attendants.

Worldspan

When I went to the USAir desk in CLT to report this their response was "oh well, you should have told TSA; the pilots aren't on the job at that point." Just wow. I would think that if a pilot is in uniform he/she is representing the company and more than that, it's just rude to push people!

You should told TSA supervisor. His behavior is not acceptable at security checkpoint. He have be more patiently when the passengers can go through and not try to push on those people. He have respect with the passengers. He have be more polite to others passengers. He will get into trouble for that. He could get suspension from the airline or he will eventually to termination from the airline.

Harry Steele, CEO of the old Eastern Provincial Airways (PV), and later Chairman of Canadian Airlines International (CP), had it right when he said that "pilots are over-paid, over-sexed bus drivers in theatre usher uniforms.".

My meaningless observation:

Pilots should be allowed to cut the line. One never knows if the person cutting is being called on to pinch hit and may be close to timing out, in which case a bunch of people could have a real bad day if s/he doesn't get through quickly.

When that person needs nothing more than his/her bare hands to bring down an aircraft if so inclined, if I were in their position, I would consider the process to be somewhat ludicrous, but that's a different thread altogether.

That said, it does not excuse someone acting like a jerk while cutting the line. It costs nothing to be polite about it.

I can't say I have ever seen flight crew actually push anyone out of the way (that is assault). I have witnessed the line cutting by flight crew many, many times, and it is often done in a very rude and arrogant manner. As frequent fliers we get used to this and a hundred other routine indignities, but I can understand how this kind of in-your-face behavior could turn ugly very quickly. I have no doubt that there could be a physical confrontation at some point when the flight crew cuts in front of the wrong person at the wrong time. There should be a separate, private entrance to the terminal for flight crew so these confrontations don't have to take place.

As someone who frequently flies out of PBI and heck it's my hometown Airport. There is no dedicated Crew/Employee Line (Only for up to the ID Checker and then the Crew/Employees queue into whatever checkpoint lanes are open). At PBI they rarely if ever staff up all the lanes which is rather annoying and a separate issue however Flight Crew and working Crewmembers do have to get to their respective assignments on time so they usually are polite and say excuse me as they go to the front of the line.

If anyone's ever flown out of MCO/FLL/PBI frequently they would realize how slowly people can really move.

To the OP, I would write in to Customer Relations if you know the details of the Pilot i.e what flight s/he was working and et cetera and let Corporate Security take care of the issue from that point on at this juncture. Had it happened to me I would have reported this incident immediately to the nearest LEO and at PBI there is usually a LEO at both checkpoints.

Harry Steele, CEO of the old Eastern Provincial Airways (PV), and later Chairman of Canadian Airlines International (CP), had it right when he said that "pilots are over-paid, over-sexed bus drivers in theatre usher uniforms.".

Funny, I don't know of any bus drivers who spend at least $50,000 to have a shot at a $17K/year job where one screw up can cost you that job, or worse, kill hundreds of people.

Funny, I don't know of any bus drivers who spend at least $50,000 to have a shot at a $17K/year job where one screw up can cost you that job, or worse, kill hundreds of people.

To which I might add that in spite of all of the above it does not give you the right to be arrogant, insensitive or down right rude to a customer. Sadly common courtesy isn't all that common anymore.

Never mind the fact that no major airline (which we are discussing HERE) pays $17k a year. The regional's? YES. Some FF'ers were born at night, just not last night.

As to the $50K spent to become a pilot. Did someone point a gun to your head? What about a registered Architect? 5 years schooling ($100k Min) plus 2 years apprenticeship before passing an exam that used to take 4, 9 hour days to complete to earn well under 6 figures and be exposed to the legal liability if your building you designed collapses with THOUSANDS inside?

So what kind of cheese would you prefer with your whine?

During check-in this morning I was putting my things in the different bins in the TSA line waiting my turn to push things through. All of a sudden a FA and a pilot come into the line (although there is a separate employees and crew line available) and the pilot literally pushed me out of the way, put his bag on the conveyor belt and pushed ahead of me. I said "excuse me; I was standing here." His response "too bad." He then pushed things so that my fingers were jammed against the bins and caught between two of them. No apology. I went up to him and said "excuse me but you just smashed my fingers." "oh." I said "what is your name?" His response "none of your business."

When I went to the USAir desk in CLT to report this their response was "oh well, you should have told TSA; the pilots aren't on the job at that point." Just wow. I would think that if a pilot is in uniform he/she is representing the company and more than that, it's just rude to push people!

Hopefully there will be no next time, but a photo of the DB would have been nice to have. I'm sorry you experienced this BS.

While I agree with the concept of your statement, I'd be extremely cautious of actually saying something like that, especially to a pilot. Not sure if this could actually happen in real life, but I'm reminded of this bit from Seinfeld:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Diplomat's_Club

While I agree that any employee in uniform represents their company, I'd rather avoid ticking off a pilot--or any crew--that may be working my flight.



Sorry aztimm, but no way would that ever cross my mind. In fact I would have defended myself and put my Shotokan Karate training to use. After all it was Florida and they have "stand your ground.";)

Or I would have placed the punk a$$ under citizen's arrest for battery.

Funny, I don't know of any bus drivers who spend at least $50,000 to have a shot at a $17K/year job where one screw up can cost you that job, or worse, kill hundreds of people.

If they work for the regionals and are just starting out. If they're flying mainline, they're doing a lot better than that.

Many of them went the military route and didn't have to pay that much, if anything, for the training.

That being said, I don't care how much they spent to get where they are or how much they get paid now. It still doesn't excuse the behavior.

Get over it. Crew need to get through. They are pretty frequent travelers--they usually know about the procedures. Make way and move on.

And if pax, many of who are very frequent flyers and know the rules themselves, tried pulling something like that, they'd find their behinds in jail. :rolleyes:

My viewpoint is that if we are all such frequent travelers, we should then KNOW that the crew needs to get through and we should let them through. What is the delay, 40 seconds? I have been on both sides of the line here and sometimes (often) passengers have "get there-itis" and don't want to let a pilot in front of them since it will slow down their progress through the line. It's at that point that crewmembers get frustrated and have to "squeeze" into the line. C'mon people........there are bigger fish to fry. Just my $.02.

Get over it. Crew need to get through. They are pretty frequent travelers--they usually know about the procedures. Make way and move on.

Agree but being a professional includes time management. No excuse for being paid and late!

Jimbo

Agree but being a professional includes time management. No excuse for being paid and late!

Jimbo

Most of the time, flight crews that are on layovers out of base are at the company's mercy as far as what time the contract transportation picks them up and brings them to/from the airport. Sometimes it's a hotel shuttle, sometimes it's a completely separate company. Many times they get no say in what time the transportation is, so time management has nothing to do with it. They get to the airport when they are dropped off. Doesn't excuse rude behavior but please don't assume they were late or in a hurry because of a time management problem. Don't think they enjoy having to cut to the front of the line either. TSA would definitely be wise to have a completely separate line but that's a whole different issue.

Not to mention, flight crews don't get paid until they push back from the gate.

Not to mention, flight crews don't get paid until they push back from the gate.

Quoted for truth, Flight Crews don't get paid until the brakes are released.

Quoted for truth, Flight Crews don't get paid until the brakes are released.

I think we are off the tracks here. I don't think anybody in this thread is saying that flight crews shouldn't have a priority at the security lines. What we are saying is that how you treat your customers matters. And generally speaking the whole airline experience from parking through flight is a rude and stressful experience. In an industry where much of the spend is optional (I don't have to visit Uncle Fred or take the kids to Disney) and the product is relatively expensive (try taking a family of four anywhere for under $1000); that there should be an industry focus on actually treating the customer with some minimal level of respect.

I think we are off the tracks here. I don't think anybody in this thread is saying that flight crews shouldn't have a priority at the security lines. What we are saying is that how you treat your customers matters. And generally speaking the whole airline experience from parking through flight is a rude and stressful experience. In an industry where much of the spend is optional (I don't have to visit Uncle Fred or take the kids to Disney) and the product is relatively expensive (try taking a family of four anywhere for under $1000); that there should be an industry focus on actually treating the customer with some minimal level of respect.

While I sympathize and agree with you on the finer aspects of these being in the employ of the service industry, Airlines are not selling you a product but a service.

There should be an industry focus or effort to improve customer service to a minimal level but why bother with a minimal level when companies and employees should be delivering their best.

There should be an industry focus or effort to improve customer service to a minimal level but why bother with a minimal level when companies and employees should be delivering their best.


Regardless of what a person had to pay to get a job, suffer through, and currently endure under their employer, there is no excuse for lack of common courtesy from anybody in the service industry. There's no reason for it at all when dealing with other people, but that's another topic.

That being said, I don't think this a widespread issue. Pilots cutting lines is one thing, but acting rude and literally shoving passengers is another.

I think the minimal level is met, but there will always be a few cases where something like this happens. It's inevitable with how large many companies are.

I just wonder if the pilot in question actually realized that he shoved the OP or really paid attention when he jammed her fingers. I really dont pay much attention to the person I'm cutting in front of. I tend to say "excuse me" in a nice tone and just start doing my thing. I also wonder if the pilot thought the OP was just complaining about him cutting thats why he refused his name.

Common courtesy, that is expected by the American culture, is only a reactive response. When the conscious mind realizes that a response is necessary the mind responds with words or actions. The key being the realization that a reaction is required.

Common courtesy is something that is becoming uncommon.

Regardless of what a person had to pay to get a job, suffer through, and currently endure under their employer, there is no excuse for lack of common courtesy from anybody in the service industry. There's no reason for it at all when dealing with other people, but that's another topic.

That being said, I don't think this a widespread issue. Pilots cutting lines is one thing, but acting rude and literally shoving passengers is another.

I think the minimal level is met, but there will always be a few cases where something like this happens. It's inevitable with how large many companies are.

My 2 cents, service does matter. I've noticed some US pilots lately stand at the front of the cabin when they make their pre-flight announcement.

It does not make any material difference in the flight, but somehow it makes me feel better about the flight...maybe because it feels like the pilot really cares about the people behind him.

Intangible added value makes a real difference. Used this (http://www.ted.com/talks/rory_sutherland_life_lessons_from_an_ad_man.html) talk from TED a couple years ago to teach my marketing students that lesson (entertaining talk...worth watching!)

My 2 cents, service does matter. I've noticed some US pilots lately stand at the front of the cabin when they make their pre-flight announcement.

It does not make any material difference in the flight, but somehow it makes me feel better about the flight...maybe because it feels like the pilot really cares about the people behind him.

Intangible added value makes a real difference. Used this (http://www.ted.com/talks/rory_sutherland_life_lessons_from_an_ad_man.html) talk from TED a couple years ago to teach my marketing students that lesson (entertaining talk...worth watching!)

The airlines are a customer service based business. It doesnt matter if it is people or cargo, they always have a customer to answer to.

Also, even flying out of Newark on a weekly basis for a while on early morning flights where everyone is already cranky...the flight crews included who would cut in front occasionally...I never had anyone whether it be a pilot or FA who was rude doing so. Most of the time they apologized for cutting in front. I guess maybe there are some rude flight crew members out there but I havent seen them yet.

Just curious, why didn't you immediately report your concerns, if any, to the originating airport?

And who are you to ask this kind of question? How helpful is it? What does it contribute to the discussion? Or you are one of those who think that not reporting it right then and there makes it less valid?

This reminds me of something that happened to my wife and myself - a smirking pilot pushed in between us both as we were preparing trays at security at SFO. My wife looked back at me nervous - the pilot said something like "Are you two guys together?" I nodded, to which he looked at me and said "You don't mind do you?" to which I answered "If she falls over you can pick her up", he responded "Has she been partying hard?", I replyed "No, she's disabled - notice her frame". No apology or allowing me to retake my original position - just ignored me from that point onwards. You could argue (as some of the frankly moronic posters on this thread will suggest) that he may have been in a hurry. He wasn't - he was standing chatting when we passed him after I had got dressed and re-shoed. I feel for the OP as it's this sort of incident that leaves a bad taste in the mouth about the whole air travel experience.

Every time this happens, I think its the classic demonstration that in air service, customers clearly come second to all other aspects of operating the business.

In any other business, putting customers second would fail as a strategy, but in the air service - comfort, politeness, and a decent experiance comes second to delivery to a destination in the least pleasant manner.

USAir(ways) customer slogan could be: "We're not happy, till you're not happy" and it would perfectly describe the business proposition.

Every time this happens, I think its the classic demonstration that in air service, customers clearly come second to all other aspects of operating the business.

In any other business, putting customers second would fail as a strategy, but in the air service - comfort, politeness, and a decent experiance comes second to delivery to a destination in the least pleasant manner.

USAir(ways) customer slogan could be: "We're not happy, till you're not happy" and it would perfectly describe the business proposition.

Well, as FAs often point out, the most important aspect of the airline business is safety.

Given that, I would be happy to take service as second.

I agree that taking a picture of the guy would have been a good response.

(Assuming you can do that at security checkpoints.)

And who are you to ask this kind of question? How helpful is it? What does it contribute to the discussion? Or you are one of those who think that not reporting it right then and there makes it less valid?

It actually does make the complaint less valid. Since because the OP waited till they arrived into a hub city there is no way to figure out who he person was. If US cant figure out who the person was then how is US supposed to respond? The only thing that US can say is sorry it happened. They can't discipline anyone and they can't really say anything.... So yes it does make it less valid.

I agree that taking a picture of the guy would have been a good response.

(Assuming you can do that at security checkpoints.)

I wouldnt advise that in any situation. You will find yourself on the wrong end of the argument. Never ever is it a good idea to take photos of airline employees or security operations.

. . .I would think that if a pilot is in uniform he/she is representing the company and more than that, it's just rude to push people!

I didn't read the whole thread, just the first page. If anyone pushes you, it's considered assault. Smashing fingers, also assault.

The trouble is, it's really hard to deal with incidents like this while in line at a checkpoint. But if an airline employee ever put a hand on me, I would put up such a fuss that law enforcement would be called in immediately. And if my fingers were smashed/pinched I would start screeching at the top of my voice. The pilot's behavior was completely out of bounds.

Yet another reason to avoid flying whenever possible. And you should write a short but strongly-worded snail-mail letter to the CEO of the airline with your complaint.

I wouldnt advise that in any situation. You will find yourself on the wrong end of the argument. Never ever is it a good idea to take photos of airline employees or security operations.

Is there a law preventing one from taking pictures of Airlines Employees in public areas?

Is there a law preventing one from taking pictures of Airlines Employees in public areas?

No, there are no such laws. If you're out in public, you're vulnerable to having your picture taken, and being an airline employee doesn't insulate you from that possibility.

FWIW, the TSA doesn't even prohibit photography at checkpoints, but they ask that you don't photograph the computer monitor images of the x-ray machines.

Onboard airplanes, on the other hand, airlines are free to restrict photography. But in an airport terminal? Take all the pictures you want.

Is there a law preventing one from taking pictures of Airlines Employees in public areas?

No, there are no such laws. If you're out in public, you're vulnerable to having your picture taken, and being an airline employee doesn't insulate you from that possibility.

FWIW, the TSA doesn't even prohibit photography at checkpoints, but they ask that you don't photograph the computer monitor images of the x-ray machines.

Onboard airplanes, on the other hand, airlines are free to restrict photography. But in an airport terminal? Take all the pictures you want.

Try it and see what happens. Bet you miss you flight and spend some unwanted time talking with the police and possibly the FBI. Taking pictures is suspicious and can be taken as a threat to security. I never said it was illegal I said you don't want to be on the wrong end of that argument.

Try it and see what happens. Bet you miss you flight and spend some unwanted time talking with the police and possibly the FBI. Taking pictures is suspicious and can be taken as a threat to security. I never said it was illegal I said you don't want to be on the wrong end of that argument.

I will take my chances if some jerk pushes me at a security line! Suspicioius my.....

There will be another flight and I would have no problem getting the police, FBI, CIA, MI5, CSI Miami or anybody else involved if that is what it takes to stand up for myself especially if I am doing nothing wrong or illegal.

Try it and see what happens. Bet you miss you flight and spend some unwanted time talking with the police and possibly the FBI. Taking pictures is suspicious and can be taken as a threat to security. I never said it was illegal I said you don't want to be on the wrong end of that argument.

I think there is a difference between taking ONE photo of a person, over taking a couple of photo of the checkpoint area... How does the papparazzi take photos at check points?

Try it and see what happens. Bet you miss you flight and spend some unwanted time talking with the police and possibly the FBI. Taking pictures is suspicious and can be taken as a threat to security. I never said it was illegal I said you don't want to be on the wrong end of that argument.

“Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.”

Benjamin Franklin

Try it and see what happens. Bet you miss you flight and spend some unwanted time talking with the police and possibly the FBI. Taking pictures is suspicious and can be taken as a threat to security. I never said it was illegal I said you don't want to be on the wrong end of that argument.

I think I will next time someone is rude. We still have the Bill of Rights and the Jack Booted Thugs of the TSA haven't taken all our Liberty. Wonder what the Police, FBI, Hitler Youth & TSA will do when I invoke my right to remain silent and refuse to answer questions. Does the airport have rubber hoses. Sorry folks but I think it time for travelers and citizens to rise up and strike a blow for Liberty.

As a PBI Frequent Flier, I can attest to the lack of a Crew Line and I have seen crews cut the line to get through as fast as possible (don't really blame them as I want to get through TSA as fast as possible), but these kinds of reports are hard to judge as we were not there.

The only time I ever had an issue with a US Pilot, I was passing through CLT and knocked the on Chief Pilots Office door and spoke with somebody in that office about the pilot's behavior, he apologized profusely, took down the info and said he would get with the pilot and talk with him about proper behavior, but added that my complaint is one of those complaints that is hard to substantiate and that beyond talking with the pilot really nothing much could be done.

Writing the company is probably (at this point) the best way to let US know about the situation as they can investigate the incident farther, though it is a he said/she said (no phun intended) and hard to substantiate (unless they contact TSA for the Video Footage if there is any).

In my case I felt better getting my complaint off my chest and that was enough to satiate me.

Dan

I think I will next time someone is rude. We still have the Bill of Rights and the Jack Booted Thugs of the TSA haven't taken all our Liberty. Wonder what the Police, FBI, Hitler Youth & TSA will do when I invoke my right to remain silent and refuse to answer questions. Does the airport have rubber hoses. Sorry folks but I think it time for travelers and citizens to rise up and strike a blow for Liberty.

There is a point in which I agree with you, but the real issue isn't the TSA or FBI or as you put it Hilter Youth, but how people behave, the pilot in questions should know better on how to act in public, as well as any and all flight crew. The problem we have with the TSA is, the lack of true training when it comes to searching people and being a little more understanding when they do search people. To the TSA it is "job" but to the citizen's of the US some take it personal (my father.) Why not have "ghost" travelers go through TSA lines to make sure things are going the way it is suppose to. This would allow an oppurtunity to train people who need it again. It comes down to education.

There is a point in which I agree with you, but the real issue isn't the TSA or FBI or as you put it Hilter Youth, but how people behave, the pilot in questions should know better on how to act in public, as well as any and all flight crew. The problem we have with the TSA is, the lack of true training when it comes to searching people and being a little more understanding when they do search people. To the TSA it is "job" but to the citizen's of the US some take it personal (my father.) Why not have "ghost" travelers go through TSA lines to make sure things are going the way it is suppose to. This would allow an oppurtunity to train people who need it again. It comes down to education.

Well this points out the difference between Public Sector (TSA) and Private Enterprise providing a service. A Private Security Company could and likely would have "Secret Shoppers", whereas a government agency wouldn't. The Government employee has no incentive to be a top performer at his/her job. We see time and again a level of condescending arrogance from the TSA (thus the snide Hitler Youth remark) towards the flying public. I do so love the way the Dutch do security at AMS. More thorough, more professional and I believe more effective.

As to crews demonstrating common courtesy, the problem in our society is common courtesy is neither common or all that courteous.

Since keeping a personal log book of my flights from 1/28/88, I have always found Pilots to be very courteous and ready to sign my book. That is until I went June 13th First Class from Washington Dulles to Dallas June 13th, UA 3801 (Mesa)....so a feeder for United. A rude downright nasty Captain and the first time I did not want him to sign my book. You would think a smaller plane they have more time to be polite. A real disappointment and I will avoid Mesa like the plague! I hope this rudeness is'nt spreading.

Since keeping a personal log book of my flights from 1/28/88, I have always found Pilots to be very courteous and ready to sign my book. That is until I went June 13th First Class from Washington Dulles to Dallas June 13th, UA 3801 (Mesa)....so a feeder for United. A rude downright nasty Captain and the first time I did not want him to sign my book. You would think a smaller plane they have more time to be polite. A real disappointment and I will avoid Mesa like the plague! I hope this rudeness is'nt spreading.

Could you be less specific?

Since keeping a personal log book of my flights from 1/28/88, I have always found Pilots to be very courteous and ready to sign my book. That is until I went June 13th First Class from Washington Dulles to Dallas June 13th, UA 3801 (Mesa)....so a feeder for United. A rude downright nasty Captain and the first time I did not want him to sign my book. You would think a smaller plane they have more time to be polite. A real disappointment and I will avoid Mesa like the plague! I hope this rudeness is'nt spreading.


In my personal experience Mesa has some the nastiest employees in commercial aviation. From agents in PHX to pilots. When I book a flight I check to see if any segments are Mesa and if possible book later or earlier.

Try it and see what happens. Bet you miss you flight and spend some unwanted time talking with the police and possibly the FBI. Taking pictures is suspicious and can be taken as a threat to security. I never said it was illegal I said you don't want to be on the wrong end of that argument.

Thanks for the "warning," but I've taken lots of photos near and at checkpoints with not so much as a "talking to" by the big bad authorities. Sure, there are a few "I've got a badge and thus I'm a big man" types around the country, but fortunately they are few and far between. Shove me at a checkpoint and you'll be photographed. I won't be detained by the authorities or miss my flight but the photos will certainly make it easier to locate and identify the person who committed battery.

Could you be less specific?

Give the poster a break. 4 posts in 7 years - he/she is just not the garrulous type! :)

You should have approached a TSA agent to say that you thought -- but could not be 100% positive -- that you could smell booze in this particular pilot's breath.;)

Taking pictures is suspicious and can be taken as a threat to security.

Taking pictures is not the least bit suspicious and poses zero threat to security. It's too bad that the government has turned every person with a camera into a potential threat.

Mike

There is a point in which I agree with you, but the real issue isn't the TSA or FBI or as you put it Hilter Youth, but how people behave, the pilot in questions should know better on how to act in public, as well as any and all flight crew. The problem we have with the TSA is, the lack of true training when it comes to searching people and being a little more understanding when they do search people. To the TSA it is "job" but to the citizen's of the US some take it personal (my father.) Why not have "ghost" travelers go through TSA lines to make sure things are going the way it is suppose to. This would allow an oppurtunity to train people who need it again. It comes down to education.

No, it comes down to accountability. TSA wants none. The "mystery shopper" idea was proposed many times on their blog, but it was repeatedly shot down by TSA.

Wow. What a bizarre thread. The pilot was clearly out of line. End of story. How anyone can even think about trying to excuse such boorish behaviour is beyond me.

Cheers,

Some funny responses :) Obviously this pilot was an .... There is nothing else to this story.

Taking pictures is suspicious and can be taken as a threat to security.

WoW. What the hell I supposed to do now? I live in Washington DC and thousands and thousands of people take pictures every day on the streets, on the national mall, in front of the white house, around Georgetown. Do you think that I should call police or maybe FBI when I see people taking pictures of Obama's residency?

WoW. What the hell I supposed to do now? I live in Washington DC and thousands and thousands of people take pictures every day on the streets, on the national mall, in front of the white house, around Georgetown. Do you think that I should call police or maybe FBI when I see people taking pictures of Obama's residency?

It's not Obama's residency it belongs to the American people for what it's worth. :-: