Air New Zealand Air Points - Boeing 767 to PVG??

Hello,

i travell on the 08 of december and 06 of January from PVG-AKL return in Business. Normally it is always a 772 but the changed to 767?
is that sure? 12 hours in that is not very nice and makes no sense really on that route.
does anyone has more information?

Yeah, some flights to PVG and NRT have been downgraded.

Argh, why? where is the 772 gone on that days? 12 hours is a long flight, there more better options to change

You should get in touch with the call centre, there might be some compensation on offer or you may be able to change if there are other 772 flights.

thanks for the fast answer. i don´t think so, cause it is reward ticket. :(
but i can try...

can see that as a win for AirNZ's perspective after giving up PEK for 2 more flights to PVG, I personally doubt would there be much demand for that route if using 772 for all flights. With no direct competition, they are still leading the market with a direct service so that is why 763 are going to NRT/PVG

To pax (me included) it is a big blow with the downgrade, not that I travel on the route a lot, the J experience on a 763 is extremely different from a 772.

Seems that AirNZ does not have enough 772 to go around after Perth upgrade and more flights to NA after QF's Exit..... and 787 is not coming until 2014...

I wonder if they will use 787 on that route when that arrives and what seating config the Airline would use, I doubt they would fit the normal J seats on a 772/773??? anyone know?

i wonder why they didn't do AKL-PVG with a PEK add-on a couple times a week? Or is it not allowed for foreign airlines to do that? (I guess there really aren't transit facilities in places like PVG... although maybe pax could have stayed on board...)

i wonder why they didn't do AKL-PVG with a PEK add-on a couple times a week? Or is it not allowed for foreign airlines to do that? (I guess there really aren't transit facilities in places like PVG... although maybe pax could have stayed on board...)

If they had the rights, they'd only be able to take passengers who are either going straight through to PEK or have booked NZ to PVG, stopped over there and then carried onto PEK at a later date. Same conditions as QF107 LAX-JFK - they can only take QF passengers connecting to a QF flight, no domestic only passengers allowed. And in this case, I wouldn't expect loads to be all that high. You're easier (and probably better off) organising connections with CA.

If they had the rights, they'd only be able to take passengers who are either going straight through to PEK or have booked NZ to PVG, stopped over there and then carried onto PEK at a later date. Same conditions as QF107 LAX-JFK - they can only take QF passengers connecting to a QF flight, no domestic only passengers allowed. And in this case, I wouldn't expect loads to be all that high. You're easier (and probably better off) organising connections with CA.

errr... yeah ... I know... I was thinking they could uplift in PEK and in PVG. Not carry pax between the two :) that way you capture the cargo and pax from both cities without dedicated aircraft, and could maybe fill a 772.

errr... yeah ... I know... I was thinking they could uplift in PEK and in PVG. Not carry pax between the two :) that way you capture the cargo and pax from both cities without dedicated aircraft, and could maybe fill a 772.

No idea if their current allotment would allow for that regardless; without dropping the flight from daily to 5x weekly for 2x weekly to PEK for example.

No idea if their current allotment would allow for that regardless; without dropping the flight from daily to 5x weekly for 2x weekly to PEK for example.

yes. But I would have thought that they're going to lose a lot of business class by downgrading to a 767. Better to reduce flights, have an add-on to PEK and keep the 777. Why would anyone fly that long in a 76??

i wonder why they didn't do AKL-PVG with a PEK add-on a couple times a week? Or is it not allowed for foreign airlines to do that? (I guess there really aren't transit facilities in places like PVG... although maybe pax could have stayed on board...)

It is definitely allowed. TK used to do IST-PEK-PVG and LH is about to launch FRA-SHE-TAO abiet no 8th freedom rights.

I don't think NZ can secure slots in PEK that would time nicely with their PVG schedules. Plus I think NZ is happier to ferry pax through HKG which has better transit facillities on to CA services to PEK.

yes. But I would have thought that they're going to lose a lot of business class by downgrading to a 767. Better to reduce flights, have an add-on to PEK and keep the 777. Why would anyone fly that long in a 76??

I believe business class wasn't selling that well in the China routes anyhow. I recall someone here saying around 70% of the business class seats were reward seats.

yes. But I would have thought that they're going to lose a lot of business class by downgrading to a 767. Better to reduce flights, have an add-on to PEK and keep the 777. Why would anyone fly that long in a 76??

Having a think about it, PVG was never so frequent so those travelling on the service were impacted by this from the outset. Therefore I'm sure that the smart ones would be able to keep on finding the 772 to fly on if they happen to be flying Business. If they weren't happy with the non-daily frequency to begin with, they would have just flown CX. But yes, the reply above this mentioning the poor revenue Business loads shows that it won't seem to impact them too badly. Either way, I think that Economy in the 763 is better than in the 772.

Why would anyone fly that long in a 76??

Because they buy tickets thinking they are flying a 777 and NZ downgrade them. Isn't that how NZ usually sell business seats on routes like this and NRT? I'm not a frequent NZ flyer but this is my perception.

I believe business class wasn't selling that well in the China routes anyhow. I recall someone here saying around 70% of the business class seats were reward seats.
Wouldn't surprise me. I just nabbed PVG-AKL-PVG in business class for right around Christmas/NY, and it was fairly easy to find award availability. 763 in one direction/772 the other.

Wouldn't surprise me. I just nabbed PVG-AKL-PVG in business class for right around Christmas/NY, and it was fairly easy to find award availability. 763 in one direction/772 the other.

The inability of Airpoints X, I class redemptions ensure maximum partner program chances of getting these seats. Kind of ironic not to protect own members' interests. Star awards are wide open to other airline members who get equivalent to Works fares but Airpoints members will have to pay cash price which often ends up in Seat Only.

I booked SYD - AKL - NRT using miles in business. Ive just had an email saying that the flight from SYD-AKL is now the 777-300 so thats cool, and the flight to NRT is still on a 777-200....these flights are not till Jan next year but after reading this thread I am getting worried that the NRT flight might get downgraded....:(

Wouldn't surprise me. I just nabbed PVG-AKL-PVG in business class for right around Christmas/NY, and it was fairly easy to find award availability. 763 in one direction/772 the other.

Business class demand is typically low over the Christmas period on most routes, (the exception is LAX) in particular chinese routes.

Its not unusual to see LHR-HKG business class with 20 seats free. This is part of the reason the one-up is coming into force, so that NZ can monetize the premium classes at times of seasonally low demand.

I booked SYD - AKL - NRT using miles in business. Ive just had an email saying that the flight from SYD-AKL is now the 777-300 so thats cool, and the flight to NRT is still on a 777-200....these flights are not till Jan next year but after reading this thread I am getting worried that the NRT flight might get downgraded....:(

Unlikely - Chinese NY is heavy demand time and it is more likely that 767 schedules will be upped to 777.

NZ is hoping to be 777 daily - the 767 is just a way of building it up.

Unlikely - Chinese NY is heavy demand time and it is more likely that 767 schedules will be upped to 777.

NZ is hoping to be 777 daily - the 767 is just a way of building it up.

:rolleyes: CNY next year is Feb 10.

Business class demand is typically low over the Christmas period on most routes, (the exception is LAX) in particular chinese routes.

Its not unusual to see LHR-HKG business class with 20 seats free. This is part of the reason the one-up is coming into force, so that NZ can monetize the premium classes at times of seasonally low demand.

It's funny that you mention one-up. Did you know on one of those flights with low business demand, people from other Star programs are snapping business seats way too easily? On these flights there tends to be a lot of I class availibility. The X and I booking classes allocated to Star awards are not available to Airpoints members which is ridiculous.

In Star Alliance terms, it typically requires 100,000 miles for a return Asia-New Zealand Star awards in NZ Business. You need to fly about 8 economy long haul roundtrips to get that amount of miles. With Airpoints, you will need 17 economy (full economy) round trips or 6 business round trips to get the same reward seats. Just forget about it if you book discount economy.

So before you talk about one-up, these seats are gone already! Do you know how many Star progams there are? And how many people around the world are redeeming for NZ's I class? I see NZ become less and less compatible with Star Alliance. You are restricting your own members to the fullest and make your awards seats wide open to once off flyers around the globe.

Why aren't you protecting the best interests of your own loyal members? It makes no sense at all.

Why aren't you protecting the best interests of your own loyal members? It makes no sense at all.

The only logical answer to that question is they see loyal members as liabilities. If you ask me, that's LCC thinking and I think I know where NZ is heading under this management.

I even like how they "enhanced" their forum presence here, from being helpful and friendly, to telling you to harden up and stop being spoilt, and that people who fly ex-WLG should be grateful that fares have dropped ex-AKL. :D

I even like how they "enhanced" their forum presence here, from being helpful and friendly, to telling you to harden up and stop being spoilt, and that people who fly ex-WLG should be grateful that fares have dropped ex-AKL. :D

I don't think "they" are AirNZ staff members; more likely investors taking a purely financial vantagepoint where rewards programmes are seen as liabilities, and higher revenue can be (perceived to be) derived from auctioning seats.

IMO, if the OneUp programme was implemented as a result of poor J or Y+ sales, then it is acting as no more than a band-aid. The root cause of the poor sales needs to be addressed, and that appears to be price, particularly in the case of J class.

Mind you there might very well be a good reason for taking the band-aid approach; it's easy to remove when no longer needed, where-as discounting fares leaves a very bad taste in the mouth's of customers.

19NOV12 - 03DEC12 763 Day 13 772 Day 457
04DEC12 - 19FEB13 763 Day x146 772 Day 14
20FEB13 - 29MAR13 763 Day x14 772 Day 14

Above specific days is for AKL departure. PVG departs following day

Unlikely - Chinese NY is heavy demand time and it is more likely that 767 schedules will be upped to 777.

NZ is hoping to be 777 daily - the 767 is just a way of building it up.
Not sure why CNY is relevant for SgtRyan's AKL-NRT flights.

It's funny that you mention one-up. Did you know on one of those flights with low business demand, people from other Star programs are snapping business seats way too easily? On these flights there tends to be a lot of I class availibility. The X and I booking classes allocated to Star awards are not available to Airpoints members which is ridiculous.
On top of that, NZ could have implemented OneUp (or any other mechanism) to monetize those seats without impacting their own FFP members. Simply clear all the FFP upgrades first, then open it up to cash bids.

As an NZ shareholder I'm very worried by their short-sighted approach to managing their customer base and long haul airline.

Glad to see that idiotic management decisions exist on both sides of the Tasman and are not just confined to Mascot.....

Glad to see that idiotic management decisions exist on both sides of the Tasman and are not just confined to Mascot.....The behaviour of the Senior Management Team at Air New Zealand over the last two years makes the Qantas two-airline strategy look like genius by comparison. And that is saying something.

The behaviour of the Senior Management Team at Air New Zealand over the last two years makes the Qantas two-airline strategy look like genius by comparison. And that is saying something.

then why is NZ outperforming Qantas financially?

then why is NZ outperforming Qantas financially?

The answer to me is very clear. Both airlines are losing money on long haul international routes only. QF has a far bigger long haul network than NZ. So the bigger it is the more money its losing. It also has a higher cost base. A stronger union. You cannot imagine QF setting up a Shanghai base as NZ did to save cost.

Domestically QF has a strong competitor whereas NZ as near monopoly.

Trans-Tasman they are on their own. NZ and DJ are partners.

Below article is telling you NZ is not doing much better.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10813922